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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Friday Afternoon Open Thread

Friday Afternoon Open Thread

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The person or persons who run the Biden-Harris HQ social media accounts are good:

 

Post by @bidenharrishq
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For what it’s worth, I think mockery like this is probably as effective a way as any to respond to the bad-faith bullshit from the Trumpist right. I haven’t watched Biden’s entire speech from last night, but I saw a brief clip where he ethered Doocy the Younger, and I approve of that too.

I think those of y’all who believe the Hur report will soon blow over (or would just go away if we refuse to talk about it) are whistling past the graveyard. I hope you’re right! But I don’t think you are.

I’m not an expert on much, but I do understand how long-term messaging campaigns work. Earned media that reinforces a preexisting narrative is worth its weight in gold, and boy did Fed Soc Trump-appointee Hur deliver a fucking motherlode yesterday.

But the good news is that Trump is old too, and he also happens to be a one-man crime spree and crazier than a sprayed roach. In order to not drive myself nuts, I choose to believe that matters and voters will appreciate the difference next November.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

94Comments

  1. 1.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    I’m one of those that’s not concerned about there being enough voters in the Biden column.  What bothers me is voter suppression in all it’s forms.

    But then I begin to think “How’s thinking that is what keeps Biden from a second term much different than your bog-standard RWNJ thinking the 2020 election was “stolen”?”  But then I know that conservatives basically project and that every accusation is a confession and feel better about my concerns vis a vis voter suppression.

    Actually, it all just makes my head hurt which means it’s time to drink!

  3. 3.

    Gretchen

    Sisi is known on Egyptian social media as “The Mexican”. Something about a rhyming joke. Biden not only knows who their president is, he’s aware of the jokes and memes about him. Since the press isn’t as knowledgable as the president, they think it’s a gaffe.

  4. 4.

    Dangerman

    I read that as spayed roach and thought, damn, that must be hard.

    ETA: Guess I’m too demented to be President, too.

  5. 5.

    narya

    Honestly? I think the report isn’t going to hurt Biden in the long term, or even very much in the short term. It’s so obviously partisan hackery–Hur really overplayed his hand–that it’s easy to mock.

  8. 8.

    Jackie

    According to Faux news and other RW outlets, republicans are bringing up the 25th Amendment suggesting Biden is unfit… Sigh. This will probably be the top speaking point for Sunday morning talk shows.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    For what it’s worth, I think mockery like this is probably as effective a way as any to respond to the bad-faith bullshit from the Trumpist right

    Agree. Never let them see you sweat.

  11. 11.

    Miss Bianca

    I think that “crazier than a sprayed roach” is threatening to replace “crazy as a pair of waltzing mice” (which I stole from Raymond Chandler, I believe) as my personal measure of the cray-cray. Thank you (I think?) for that image, Betty!

    ETA: I also think that addressing the BS by timely – and, if possible, vicious – mockery is absolutely the way to go.

  12. 12.

    hitchhiker

    Of course they’ll keep hammering this, because now that they’ve blown up their own immigration bill and the economy is looking better and better, it’s all they have. I’d like to suggest that engaging on it directly is bad tactics — engagement is what they want. No clicks. No replies. No nothing.

    What we must do is counter-program, with relentless mockery of trump & his hapless allies in congress, who will definitely be giving us material galore, as my Irish mum would have said.

  14. 14.

    Alison Rose

    The thing that really annoys me about all of this is: EVERYONE FORGETS SHIT SOMETIMES. Everyone has verbal stumbles or forgets a word or uses the wrong name. Everyone of every age. A couple of years ago, at the ripe old age of 41, I called the arm of the sofa the “sleeve”. My previous cat died over three years ago, but I still once in a while use her name with my current cat (usually when she’s doing something bad and I have to yell at her five times to get her to stop). The other day, my brain couldn’t decide between saying “good” or “great” and it came out something like “groot”, rhyming with foot. Literally every human of every age with the power of speech has flubs here and there. Literally every human of an age where they can form memories will forget things sometimes. Just because it’s an older person doing it doesn’t mean that older person’s brain is Swiss cheese.

  20. 20.

    Miss Bianca

    @Alison Rose: Right?! I am noticing that same phenomenon more and more in myself as I age, and I guess one of the blessings of a relatively obscure life is that there’s no horde of partisans and press beasts constantly using it to ride my ass about how I must be TOO FUCKING OLD to do my job properly.

  23. 23.

    eclare

    @Alison Rose:

    I remember being at work while the Iraq War was going on.  My manager, Sherri, my director, John, and I were discussing current events.  John is one of the smartest persons that I have ever worked for, his memory is a steel trap.  John raised the issue, “‘And then you have all of these IUD’s exploding, hurting the troops.”

    Sherri and I looked at each other, and then we all broke out laughing.

  24. 24.

    Mart

    @Alison Rose: I retired for a couple years and recently went back part time. My brain had dropped some parts of my job’s vocabulary that I had to re-remember. Kinda humiliating on the factory floor pointing at the damn gizmo and not finding the words I wanted to ask about it.

  26. 26.

    John S.

    I think part of the reason that older folks seem to “stumble” with recollection is also that they have so much more information to access in their brain than someone with half their life experience.

    In other words, Biden has forgotten more shit than a lightweight like Jesse Watters has ever learned in the first place.

  30. 30.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @TBone: He doesn’t explain how appointing a Dem Special Counsel would have resulted in a better outcome.  IE- How the predictable “OMG this whole thing was RIGGED!” shit-show wouldn’t have been just as big as this. And how he (and other Garland-haters) wouldn’t still end up taking the bait, signal-boosting the GOP propaganda and bashing Garland for not magically avoiding that result.  It would just be a different shit-show.  Once Biden was found to have classified docs, we were guaranteed to have some sort of mess because of the GOP and Biden-haters on our own side.  There’s nothing Garland could do that would’ve avoided that.

    But honestly I’m not sure why people are so mad.  I’ve watched people on our side say things about Biden’s age/mind for four years, that are only slightly less offensive and speculative than what Hur did and got defensive and mad any time any of us suggested maybe that’s not a great idea to give that bullshit more oxygen and legitimacy.  So many commenters, right here at BJ, wanted to make Biden’s mind an endless topic of debate, well you got what you wanted (not you, per se).  So congrats, I guess…

  31. 31.

    SoupCatcher

    Warning, rambling ahead.

    Biden is the best president of my lifetime; I’m an early Gen-Xer.  He knows how government works, he chooses amazing subordinates, and he gets good things done.  I am proud to work hard to re-elect him to four more years.

    Biden’s strengths are his experience, his competence, and his leadership.  So the other side has to attack each of those by finding counter-examples, hammering the counter-examples over and over, forcing acknowledgment from his supporters, and then using that as evidence to people who haven’t made up their minds yet: see, even his supporters think he has problems.

    The media helped attack his competence during and after the Afghanistan withdrawal.  That was a very successful influence operation.

    Similarly, they wrote pieces about his age years ago to defang his experience and have been sitting on them, hoping his opponent was substantially younger.  All that knowledge and experience doesn’t matter if you can paint him as senile, inflexible, out of touch, etc.  This feels like the opening the media have been looking for to publish all those hit pieces. We won’t know the success of this influence operation for a while.

    In terms of leadership, it doesn’t matter how many amazing people he’s picked if you can point to one bad hire.  And, since it would be political malpractice to replace anyone during your first term, it’s an easy ongoing point to hammer over and over.  I feel Garland is okay.  He’s not Arne Duncan bad, but he’s no Deb Haaland.  He’s an easy attack vector for those who want to help Republicans make this country fascist again.

  34. 34.

    Elizabelle

    @Gretchen:  That is fascinating.  And very true.  From Middle East Eye:  (if TLDR: one reason for the Egyptian meme:  to get around censorship and be able to criticize Sisi, under another name):

    The clip of the latest error was quickly shared across social media, including among many Arab and Egyptian social media users.

    In Egypt, Sisi is often referred to as “El Meksiki”, or “the Mexican” in Arabic – a long-running joke which orginated from a viral video several years ago.

    In the clip, an Egyptian man dedicated a message to the president, calling him “Abdel Fattah el-Meksiki”. The young man called on “El-Meksiki” to lower prices and to improve the quality of life in the north African country.

    Since then, the title has been used widely amongst Egyptian users online, especially in connection to poverty and the cost of living.

    One social media user wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter: “Egypt is a dictatorship ruled by Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. You can’t criticise the president freely so Egyptians started calling him “El Meksiki” (“the Mexican” in Arabic) because it sounds like “El Sisi” so they can avoid censorship and criticise him freely.”

    One Egyptian user said that jokes about Sisi’s imagined Mexican origin were used to show that “he is not one of us, nor will he ever be”.

    Middle East Eye:
    Biden called Sisi the ‘president of Mexico’. It turned a meme into reality

  35. 35.

    blindyone

    I have seldom posted a comment on this blog, though I’m a regular reader here. When I do, I’ll most likely be a glass is half full kind of political ally. I’m not a virgin when it comes to politics, my first vote was for McGovern so I’ve seen “fire and I’ve seen rain” over the years. This will be a really hard election year and we all know what’s at stake. I think a lot of the old, old, old drumbeat is about demoralizing the voters on our side. Don’t fall for that and try not to enable it in your private or online life.

  37. 37.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thank you!  You’d think after 2016 and the well-documented Russian disinformation campaign, multiple books about modern digital dis/mis-info, and a series of posts by Adam Silverman right here on this blog about PsyOps and information laundering, that people would have a better understanding of how all of us can slip into adding fuel to the fire and playing into the GOP/Russia’s hands.

  39. 39.

    Gretchen

    For those wondering:

    Egypt is a dictatorship ruled by Abdel Fattah El Sisi. You can’t criticise the president freely so Egyptians started calling him “El Meksiki” (“the Mexican” in Arabic) because it sounds like “El Sisi” so they can avoid censorship and criticise him freely

    From Fatima @fatimazsaid on X

  40. 40.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: OT, in an earlier thread you mentioned you had links to articles about why the Strong Towns group might be a grift. I’d be interested in reading them if you have time to share. Thanks.

    P.S. Not affiliated with Strong Towns in any way, I serve on a steering committee in Denver and interested in learning about groups who might be allies and MIGHT NOT.

  43. 43.

    leeleeFL

    @Miss Bianca: I came on just to comment on this description. No one but a Floridian could use that well. I have sprayed roaches and Palmetto bugs down here that looked like they had St. Vitus dance infection!  And I am ashamed, as a vegetarian, to admit that I enjoyed it some.  I hate roaches and all their relatives more than most other buggies.  Just UGH!

    Although, waltzing mice is good, just not as crazy, IMO.

  44. 44.

    TBone

    @UncleEbeneezer: which “he” are you referring to?  Jeff T. is in the mockery biz, not the explanation biz.  I give no clicks to the other side and completely agree with your assessment btw.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    The special counsel report has been a teaching moment for Americans about the president of Egypt.

  47. 47.

    Eolirin

    @Alison Rose: Biden additionally has had a goddamn speech disorder his entire life.

    A lot of his supposed gaffes are just him working around having a stutter.

  48. 48.

    Anonymous At Work

    Most of the issue will be settled when Biden asks for 12 debates, and Trump asks for 0 debates not hosted by Russian TV.  One person asks to speak at length on camera and the other hides from it.

  51. 51.

    Alison Rose

    @Eolirin: Sure, but to the dickheads on the right, a stutter means you are mentally disabled. These are the same people who call Newsom illiterate because he has dyslexia.

    And most of them are raising children. I shudder to think how they would speak to their own kids if they had learning or processing differences.

    Fucking disgusting pieces of garbage.

  52. 52.

    piratedan

    if nothing else, the report on the Biden Documents issue kind of allowed the fact that in the Colorado question before the SCOTUS that Trump’s lawyers admitted that he DID an insurrection but argued despite that, the Interpretation that Colorado made on its own state laws regarding who is qualified for their state ballots (even for a Federal office) should be invalid because of reasons….

  56. 56.

    Eolirin

    @Alison Rose: I’m more infuriated by the broader media failure to recognize or provide that context in their reporting. It’s another way they put their thumbs on the scales and distort what they’re reporting on.

  60. 60.

    cain

    @Jackie: That’s going to bite in the ass as Trump gets more exposed. Them talking about the 25th amendment while their clown prince is actually going through mental issues is not going to be a good look.

    But the press loves this stuff and so they’ll get a lift.

  61. 61.

    trollhattan

    @Mart: ​
    Yeah, know how all-powerful Soros Bucks are in Republican heads? Leo Bucks do actual damage out of proportion to how much he spent, in total. It’s the harvest of the long game we’re in the midst of.

  62. 62.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @TBone: I think Mr. Tiedrich is the bees’ knees but MSM he is not.

    Good suggestions for people here who frequent social media to not give oxygen to the fever swamp in all cases, not just the latest one or ones. Many have also suggested here to not subscribe to bad faith publications like the NYT and WaPo or continue on Twitter or Facebook or whatever. I believe its not only the MSM that aren’t our friends but also our PTB betters for whom low taxes and zero regulations are more important than what may happen to others living in a fascist state.

    Most everyone has reasons and/or rationale for continuing to support bad actors and I totally understand some of those reasons! We are human, the world is flawed and we can’t avoid doing things counter to our principles that are tools to help us advance our principles.

  64. 64.

    trollhattan

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    An appalling # of the yoot get their news primarily from YouTube and Facebook.

    Friend, his son and I have done some backpacking trips; dad and I inevitably end up in lengthy political discussions. “How do you guys know so much?” (He’s degreed, smart, hard-working, and has a highly paid banking jerb.)

    And yet I feel under-informed.

  65. 65.

    cain

    @Sure Lurkalot: That’s hard to do because there is a system of influencers who need to always have high engagement regardless of political affiliations – so it’s going to be shared a lot.

  66. 66.

    JMG

    We need do nothing to counter the Biden is too old theme. Only one who can do it is him. Fortunately, it’ll be easy. Just keep appearing in public as he did last night. Give a bunch of press conferences. He’ll  do fine. Also, I’d pick on a few different reporters than Doocy. I know that’s easy for Biden, but it’d have more effect if he sent ridicule say, Peter Baker’s way. The DC press corps can dish it out, but they absolutely cannot take it. A show of dominance never hurts.

  67. 67.

    Soprano2

    I just found out that the surgery follow-up appointment scheduler made an appointment for my husband without calling us about it. I have the online portal for him, but how in the hell was I supposed to know when the appointment was if they didn’t contact me?!! I definitely will be telling the doctor about this. Not recommended, no stars!!! My first interaction with his office was a good one, and I like him as a doctor, but there’s absolutely no excuse for this. People work and have things they do, they can’t just make an appointment without talking to you.

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    I think those of y’all who believe the Hur report will soon blow over (or would just go away if we refuse to talk about it) are whistling past the graveyard. I hope you’re right! But I don’t think you are.

    The political media may have found its butter emails, and they are spreading it thick.
    Pence also had classified documents and all this was seen as sloppy records keeping, often by subordinates, and a desperate attempt to “both sides” the issue and provide Trump with some cover. Now this nonsense is being re-framed to “prove” that Biden has serious issues related to his age.
    I had been away from the news and in catching up see that this is suddenly a big deal on British media, supposedly more objective than US journalism. So BBC News has a big story about the “political grenade” caused by Biden’s age and frailty.
    This nonsense is tiresome, but it is going to heat up.

    But the good news is that Trump is old too, and he also happens to be a one-man crime spree and crazier than a sprayed roach. In order to not drive myself nuts, I choose to believe that matters and voters will appreciate the difference next November.

    The political media has totally discounted the possible threat that Trump poses to democracy. So now it is mainly stories about how Biden is. Just. Too. Old.
    But the media is somewhat tired of Trump as well. And they don’t really want to talk about his age or his own mental issues.
    And so we get stories about how voters see presidential election politics as entertainment and how voters are yearning for something new, instead of a repeat of Biden v Trump. They want new faces, although neither Kamala Harris nor Nikki Haley apparently have the right stuff. Other than that, America would eagerly vote for Generic Democrat vs Generic Republican.
    Just tiresome bullshit. I do hope that voters can step around these piles of political manure.

  69. 69.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @cain: I figure the Trumpists were waiting for an excuse to bring up the 25th Amendment since the speculation it would be used on Trump after 1/6/21.

  71. 71.

    leeleeFL

    @trollhattan: I once read Vietnam:A History.  Everytime I read some convoluted BS thing that led directly to us being unable to work things out with Ho Chi Minh and others, I would yell at myself, “How did you not know this? “. Then, I forgave myself, for being 10 or 11 years old!

  73. 73.

    blindyone

    @SoupCatcher:  Thank you for this comment. I’m only about a decade younger than Biden so as a political nerd I’ve watched his evolution for decades now. He has grown into the job as President-which means he has learned from life and modified his political positions along the way. We all should learn from life and sometimes we need to change. He wasn’t my first choice in the 2020 primary season but I’m viewing him now as a potential FDR for our side if we could only get a Senate and House to reliably back him up.

  74. 74.

    TBone

    @Sure Lurkalot: I said exactly that on the early morning thread.  Also, did you notice the label “dead horse?” And my “one click” comment to Harrison Wesley?

  76. 76.

    Betty Cracker

    @UncleEbeneezer: A report by a Dem/independent special prosecutor would not have been this damaging. For one thing, I assume that hypothetical person wouldn’t have editorialized about Biden’s memory, and if they did their job, they would have also concluded that no charges were warranted.

    Would the MAGA chuds screech and holler in that scenario? Of course — they always do. They’re mad at Hur for not bringing charges. They also don’t matter because they are unreachable. They’re Trump’s cult.

    Hur’s genius move was to reinforce a preexisting narrative in the most damaging manner he could — amplifying a negative attribute most Americans already seem to believe about Biden and giving the media even more material. Garland gave Hur the opportunity to do that, and if you can’t see that was a big fat mistake on Garland’s part, I don’t know what to tell you.

  79. 79.

    delphinium

    @narya: I agree. The ‘Biden old/dementia’ bit has already been overused by the media and one more unprofessional, attention-seeking hack sliding it into a report won’t have much more influence.

    I’d also add that the media, in particular the WH press corps, (especially after the disgraceful press conference yesterday) may soon find that less and less people will pay attention to them. There’s only so many times you can cry ‘wolf’ with little to back it up. Especially, as others have noted, Trump is also old but is actually unfit for office.

  80. 80.

    Dinsdale Piranha

    Hi y’all – regular reader, but seldom commenter. 

    I think we can all agree this was a first-class ratfucking operation.  It has the veneer of respectability for those that don’t know the details (which catches a lot of people).  Most won’t understand (or have the perseverance to learn):  the depth of Hur’s Republican politico bona fides, that the nuances of Biden’s demeanor during the interview appear different in a transcript than in context, that likely Biden was pretending to be forgetful for effect (or just screwing with Hur because this investigation is a waste of the Chief Executive’s time), that Biden probably knows Sisi is called the “Mexican” and was trying to make a joke, and so forth. 

    For the razor thin margin of voters up for grabs in the states that matter, it’s the perception that matters, not the facts.  They’ll just see the broad themes – special counsel report… government investigation…  missing classified docs… Biden is old and forgetful…  Trump is bullying and defiant.   To paraphrase Helen Lewis, Trump seems possessed of a demonic energy that makes him seem vigorous and combative – even when his words make no sense.  Biden’s appearance, by contrast, aligns with his age.   

    The rightwing agitprop machine will eat on this for weeks – if not months.  And arguing about the details will just sound like making excuses.  The President’s team has to get him out in the public arena in unscripted events.  We need more Doucey thrashing (not just Doucey, but others as well) – and on camera.

    I’m not a smart person or connected to any decisionmakers, but I fear in my gut that this may be the thing that moves the needle 2-3 percentage points in the places that matter for 2024.

  88. 88.

    Paul in KY

    @leeleeFL: The main deal in early stages of Vietnam was that the French had it as a colony (until they lost North to Ho) and were damn sure gonna try to ensure he didn’t get anymore. Also, Ho’s lip service to Communism didn’t play well over here in Murca.

  91. 91.

    kindness

    Meh.  The political press & Fox will make hay of Hur’s report for as long as they thinks it works.  It’ll work forever on the Fox sheeple.  Ma & Pa Americans though?  No.  Let Biden do his no notes press conferences and speeches and that should put a rest to that.

    It was a terrible unforced error by Garland though.  I’d say he should resign but I’d prefer he does that the beginning of Joe’s next term.

  92. 92.

    Ironcity

    @Dangerman: With what we do to our presidents you’ve got to be demented to run for the office.  Unless you are a lifelong all-around public servant in the best/real sense of the phrase.  Go get ’em Uncle Joe.

  93. 93.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    You’re not gonna see this I bet.

    You live in Denver?  Steering committee for…what?  Comprised of what kind of people?

    I live in Denver and have a strong (obnoxious) reputation of pushing back on the entitled, white carpetbagging dude-bros who push neoliberal, Reagnomics-For Housing.  If you’re one of them, sorry, not interested in talking.

    If not one of them, let’s get together.  If I see you in another thread, I’ll reply with contact info.

    Actually, I’ll email Water Girl and ask her to pass along the above.

  94. 94.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: The Media would have amplified GOP whines about a rigged process, just as they did The Big Lie, Trump’s pre-election claims of Voter Fraud in 2020 and similar claims he made in 2016.  So yeah I’m skeptical that there’s any certainty that a Dem SC (and the appearance of political bias) would have done less harm than this.  The Media has shown time and again that there’s no GOP Witch Hunt that is too ridiculous for them to amplify.  We don’t even know yet what effect Hur’s bullshit will have (if any) to actually effect voters’ perceptions, let alone to judge it against a hypothetical scenario.  Maybe it was a mistake but we really can’t say without a time machine and the ability to run the alternative scenario.  Confident claims that this was a huge mistake are built on speculation and an assumption that 2024 will play out like 2016.  Like with evaluations of DOJ’s approach to Jan 6 investigations/prosecutions, as you’ve noted numerous times, it’s simply too soon to tell.

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