Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

The revolution will be supervised.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Monday Morning Open Thread: Back to the Mundane World, Slowly

Monday Morning Open Thread: Back to the Mundane World, Slowly

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Joe Biden has a really good media team…

Spare a thought for the Second Gentleman, though:


This would appall my old Tolkien Society friends…


(Left to right: Travis Kelce’s brother Jason, Taylor Swift’s friend Ice Spice, Ms. Swift)

Remember, social media users, sharing is caring!


Elsewhere, Mr. Transactional, per Politico — “Trump to Taylor Swift: Don’t be ungrateful”:

… In a post on social media Sunday, the former president made a backhanded plea to the pop star, who is expected to be featured prominently on TV during the game, which her boyfriend, Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, is playing in.

Trump claimed credit for Swift’s financial success, calling a possible endorsement of Biden “disloyal to the man who made her so much money.”

“I signed and was responsible for the Music Modernization Act for Taylor Swift and all other Musical Artists. Joe Biden didn’t do anything for Taylor, and never will,” Trump wrote on Truth Social, referencing legislation he signed in 2018 meant to modernize copyright laws…

Hope for the sports fans:

Reader Interactions

240Comments

  1. 1.

    lowtechcyclist

    Dark Brandon for the win

    ETA: I loved the ‘Gimli, Frodo, and Legolas’ tweet. Still the prettiest!

  2. 2.

    Baud

    I signed and was responsible for the Music Modernization Act for Taylor Swift

    True. You also regard her and all young women as baby making factories.

    Tough choices.

  3. 3.

    Princess

    Anyone remember how, after an earlier Chiefs victory, Trump tweeted congratulations to them and their “great state of Kansas”?

  4. 4.

    zhena gogolia

    @Princess:

    Oh, I missed that! Fuck him!
    Reposting: In Moscow they’re comparing Tucker Carlson to a popular cartoon figure named Karlsson who was from an Astrid Lindgren book. From Wikipedia:

    Karlsson is a very short, plump and overconfident man who lives in a small house hidden behind a chimney on the roof of “a very ordinary apartment building on a very ordinary street” in Vasastan, Stockholm. When Karlsson pushes a button on his stomach, it starts a clever little engine with a propeller on his back, allowing him to fly.
    In his own opinion, Karlsson is the best at everything.

  7. 7.

    p.a.

    Biden: Commanders, or Ravens?  Or Iggles?  Born in Scranton, so maybe Stillers?  One map shows Delaware split north/south Eagles/Ravens.

  9. 9.

    Princess

    To be serious for a second, I do think constant mocking is an effective political tool for our side. They have no response for it.

    That Pence tweet is priceless.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    via Tony W over at OTB, “Dark Biden for the win.”

    Joe Biden@JoeBiden
    Just like we drew it up.

    Read the comments to drink in some oh so soured tears.
    eta: And now I see that Anne posted it up at top, I just skimmed right past it.

  15. 15.

    Kay

    Trump loves celebrities. He still doesn’t know how NATO works (because he’s dumb) but I bet he has followed every move of the Taylor/Travis romance.

  16. 16.

    RaflW

    There’s something pathetically supplicating about Trump saying “Besides, I like her boyfriend… [even if he] probably can’t stand me.”

    Trump is indeed intimidated by their stardom.

  17. 17.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
     

    @lowtechcyclist: Still the prettiest! I haven’t seen that in ages. Not since back in my LOTR fanfic writing days. Sigh. That was fun.

    Thought that might bring back some memories! Those Secret Diaries were hilarious.

  18. 18.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    You also regard her and all young women as baby making factories.

    I would argue that he regards all young women as sex and whether they get pregnant is not his problem, so it might as well not exist.  He didn’t pick Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barret to overturn Roe.  He picked them to rubber stamp everything he ever wanted.  He was entirely unaware that McConnell picked them to overturn Roe and they have no loyalty to Trump at all.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    @RaflW:

    Remember how excited he was when Kanye West and the Kardashians seemed like they liked him?

    He loves celebrities and wants to be loved by them.

  20. 20.

    Ken

    I missed it all, sleep called loudly. I’m catching up now, and enjoying Popehat‘s memes based on a shot of Kelce yelling at his coach. My favorite is

    DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF HOW MUCH PRESSURE I AM UNDER? CAN YOU EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE MY STRESS LEVEL? CAN YOU EVEN CONCEIVE OF HOW HARD IT IS TO FIND AN APPROPRIATE VALENTINE’S DAY PRESENT FOR YOUR GIRLFRIEND WHEN SHE’S A BILLIONAIRE? I SPENT MY ENTIRE NET WORTH TO CLONE MARVIN GAYE, ANDY

    Edit: No, strike that — I didn’t read far enough. This one is my favorite:

    NOBODY CARES IF YOU ACT LIKE AN ASSHOLE, ANDY. YOU’RE AN NFL COACH. BUT IF I, LIKE, LEAVE THE TOILET SEAT UP, THE NEXT DAY THE NUMBER ONE SONG IN THE GODDAMNED WORLD IS “OH APPARENTLY TOILET SEATS ARE MYSTERIOUS.” DO YOU KNOW HOW PARANOID THAT MAKES ME

  21. 21.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Baud:

    I’m not fond of the constant negativity towards the US that you often see online, but I have to admit, we have the saddest alpha males. 

    But they’re top notch whiny ass titty babies!

    Sorry, that insults infants.

    Top notch horses’ asses?

  29. 29.

    Princess

    @Kay: You’re right. He sees everyone and everything through the prism of celebrity. It’s the only thing he understands — and he does understand it. It’s part of what made him President. It is why he can’t understand how Joe Biden beat him. Joe (unlike Obama and even Hillary) has very little celebrity about him.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    MSNBC found a Palestinian lawmaker who is pro-Trump because he’ll be better on Palestine. So there you have it.

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay:

    He still doesn’t know how NATO works (because he’s dumb) 

    Dump is also a fascistic traitor to the United States.

  33. 33.

    Ramalama

    @Princess: Agreed with a pinch of salt. Obama mocked Trump at that correspondents’ dinner and that all turned out so well. I guess the moral of the story is, mock the GOOP but then WIN!

  34. 34.

    Kay

    @Princess:

    He was always getting into spats with celebrities as a pathetic ploy to be coupled with them in any way, even negatively. Swift is genuinely confident. She’ll never respond to him.

  36. 36.

    Suzanne

    @zhena gogolia:

    Karlsson is a very short, plump and overconfident man who lives in a small house hidden behind a chimney on the roof of “a very ordinary apartment building on a very ordinary street” in Vasastan, Stockholm. 

    Okay, that is hilarious.
    Tucker Carlson has the dumbest fucken face.
    I still chuckle when I think about how Rod Dreher wanted a ticket of Ron DeSantis with Tucker as his VP.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    Putin made Carlson wait two hours for the interview. Sitting alone in a chair waiting for two hours past the appointed time. No wonder conservatives are always so insanely angry and lashing out – they humiliate themselves constantly – they grovel before powerful authoritarians and then strike out at others.

  41. 41.

    Princess

    The best thing about Biden’s mockery of Trump is that he rarely mentions Trump, as in the top tweet. He mentions him in speeches when he’s angry and calling him out. But when he’s being funny, he ignores him. It’s good.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    they grovel before powerful authoritarians and then strike out at others.

     
    It’s why they’re so desperate to preserve their historical social status.

  43. 43.

    Ramalama

    @mrmoshpotato:

    But they’re top notch whiny ass titty babies!

    I’m leaning more towards calling Trump a “Cuck.” A cuck plus narcissist. Wonder what the combo’s called.

    But they’re top notch whiny ass titty babies!

    ok…

  44. 44.

    3Sice

    What is the value proposition in those celebrity commercials? Are they actually increasing brand awareness, or are they just lifting some influencer’s Q rating?

  45. 45.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ramalama: ​Obama mocked Trump at that correspondents’ dinner and that all turned out so well.

    Obama mocking trump my have gotten trump off his fat lazy ass but it was the media’s obsession with butter emails and Comey’s October assist that did Hillary in. That and the 20 year jihad the gop had waged against her.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    Trump’s pathetic fake-tweet is even more sad-trombonish when you consider that Swift endorsed Biden-Harris 2020 with a plate of cookies after Trump signed the legislation that he now claims put Swift forever in his debt. Has any man in the history of humankind been publicly rejected by more women than Donald Trump? I had that thought at the Women’s March in D.C. on January 21, 2021.

    Also, I’m pleased to see that not only are Trump’s appalling remarks about his NATO extortion racket getting continued media play but at least some MSM figures are asking Repubs to defend them on camera. They beclown themselves because there’s no defense, of course.

    Rubio especially looked dumb as a brick on one of the Sunday shows when asked about it. You could tell it was painfully uncomfortable for him. Good. Being a shifty shitweasel in defense of a buffoonish, criminal authoritarian should be painful. If Rubio’s parents had stuck around Havana, Rubio would have eagerly shined Castro’s boots.

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    There’s a PBS documentary about Putin and the various US Presidents who dealt with him. Obama’s body language is 100% cold contempt where George W Bush is clearly smitten and almost simpering he’s so excited that Putin likes him. Clinton didn’t like him either although there’s no film of it. I just think it’s telling that both of ours saw him for what he is and wouldn’t grovel and both of theirs missed his essential nature and groveled. They love dictators. I bet Tucker left that room after Putin humiliated him and screamed at his aides and driver.

  52. 52.

    Manyakitty

    Open thread, so is anyone else surprised that Bibi didn’t stick in the shiv during his ABC interview? To paraphrase, he said Biden knows what he’s doing, knows what he’s saying, and is still on top of his game.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Right wingers really love other right wingers, even if they’re sworn enemies in any other context other than opposing left wingers. It’s like some sort of (mostly) male brotherhood.

  57. 57.

    TBone

    Everybody brought their A game last night, especially Biden’s comms team.  One exception to that was the advertisers.  I’m basking in winner glow today and plan to be happy about it all week!

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    @lowtechcyclist: I’m here and at work, even though I was up until after midnight just to watch Colbert. It was funny to realize that they pre-recorded most of the “live” show that was on last night. I wonder how many people watched it, they didn’t figure on the game going into overtime.

  60. 60.

    TBone

    The only thing that could make me happier today is Judge Engoron ‘s ruling coming down on Lincoln’s Birthday.  I love me some poetic justice.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: Then there is this:

    “I said, ‘Mr. Prime Minister, I’m looking into your eyes, and I don’t think you have a soul,'” Biden told the magazine. “He looked back at me, and he smiled, and he said, ‘We understand one another.'”

  63. 63.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: ​
     

    Remember when GWB said he’d looked into Putin’s soul? (And had no problem with what he saw there.)

  65. 65.

    BC in Illinois

    Trump:

     “I signed and was responsible for the Music Modernization Act for Taylor Swift and all other Musical Artists. Joe Biden didn’t do anything for Taylor, and never will . . . There’s no way she could endorse Crooked Joe Biden, the worst and most corrupt President in the History of our Country, and be disloyal to the man who made her so much money.”

    Variety:

    Donald Trump ‘Did Nothing’ on Music Modernization Act

    The act, which updated the 20-year-old copyright and royalty laws, in order to bring them into the era of streaming services, etc., was “passed unanimously by Congress after years of work by its proponents.”  Variety has a good summary of the law.

    Trump did nothing.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Because Putin told Bush he (Putin) is a born again Christian. You sort of understand it with Trump because IMO Trump had fucking monsters as parents but Bush II had Bush I (who probably wasn’t a bad role model) – why was he such a chump about people? He believed and trusted all kinds of bad people. I don’t think his father would have been fooled by “but I love Jesus”.

  67. 67.

    Suzanne

    @Kay:

    No wonder conservatives are always so insanely angry and lashing out – they humiliate themselves constantly – they grovel before powerful authoritarians and then strike out at others. 

    Oh, absolutely.
    That’s the downside (for them) of all their will-to-power urges: literally everything is a status game to them. Normal human relationships, like with romantic partners or friends or children….. everything is about control and flexing. They want financially and sexually dependent wives, children who obey commands, they want to make more money than their friends. And they hate liberals and want to hold power to piss us off. We make them feel bad about themselves, with our snooty educations and stable marriages.

  68. 68.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Regulatory capture strikes again: EPA again OKs use of toxic herbicide linked to Parkinson’s disease

    By re-approving the “highly lethal” substance, the EPA has “violated the law” and put industry interests before public health, the plaintiffs allege.

    “There is an incredibly overwhelming body of evidence on this that has been accepted by scientists across the globe, and the EPA’s decision really placed it at odds with the best available science,” said Jonathan Kalmuss-Katz, a senior attorney with Earthjustice, the suit’s lead plaintiff.

    The EPA’s decision is the latest salvo in a decades-long battle over the use of paraquat, which is a highly effective weed killer. Elsewhere, Syngenta, which produces the substance, has lost – nearly 60 countries have banned paraquat. A state-owned Chinese company bought Syngenta in 2017, but China still prohibits the product, as do the UK and EU.

  69. 69.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: My guess is it’s because Bush II isn’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier. If he were a regular person instead of the scion of a politically powerful family, he would have probably been besieged by minor league scammers all his life. But since he is who he is, his stupidity and poor judgment had world historical implications.

  71. 71.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Classic narcissist, it’s never enough no matter how much fame or attention he gets. The only thing that would be enough is if everyone and everything was constantly talking about him and fawning over him, and even then it might not be enough. It must be a miserable way to live, feeling that your happiness always depends on what other people do.

  72. 72.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:

    Bush II had Bush I (who probably wasn’t a bad role model)

    Barbara was widely known as a seething cesspool of personal hatreds, and Bush I was a ruthless man mixed up in corrupt government crimes, and with public policies that focused heavily on hurting the weak.  I’m going to guess they were terrible parents, just nowhere near the nightmare of Trump’s father.

  73. 73.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Swift has more adoring fans than TFG has ever had, and did a tour that influenced many places economies in a measurable way. She doesn’t care about him (except to keep him from becoming president), I’m sure that drives him nuts!

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’m no expert on this stuff. But my question on these reports is always – “Ok, you ban it. What replaces it??”

    EPA.gov on Paraquat Dichloride:

    Paraquat dichloride, commonly referred to as “paraquat,” is one of the most widely used herbicides in the United States. Since paraquat’s first registration, EPA has reviewed and reassessed its safety and uses, including undergoing registration review, a program that re-evaluates each registered pesticide on a 15-year cycle.

    In July 2021, after receiving and considering public comments on the paraquat proposed interim decision, EPA released the interim decision for registration review. As part of this action, EPA is requiring mitigation measures to reduce risks associated with paraquat in order to protect human health and the environment.

    […]

    (Emphasis added.)

    Lots and lots of essential chemicals and compounds are highly toxic. Some of the compounds used in electronics manufacture are incredibly toxic. That means they have to be used responsibly.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    Could be a lot of things. Right wingers like right wingers. Maybe he was paid off. Maybe he just wants to hurt the U.S. Maybe he thinks the Arab states own Trump. Maybe he’s being sincere because the current situation is so frustrating and intactable.

    To be fair, I can see Trump telling Bibi to cool it until he gets his Nobel Prize, and Bibi might because right wingers respect other right wingers.  Long term, it’s hard for me to believe that Palestinians will be better off with Trump.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’m less confident of Biden’s character appraisal of others than I was. He told us they were close to stopping killing civilians 10,000 civilians ago and they just did another major escalation. A couple more “Blinken Units” are all that’s needed apparently. They should check with Netanyahu if he knows what “a week” is – is it 7 days or 30? Or 90? Or 120?

    So far I think Obama and Slick Willy have him beat on that score. I don’t think they trusted anyone.

  78. 78.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Something to consider with Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin; what does that say about Putin that he lets himself be interviewed by a has been like Carlson whose sells things like a testicle tanner?

  79. 79.

    SFAW

    Trump claimed credit for Swift’s financial success, calling a possible endorsement of Biden “disloyal to the man who made her so much money.”

    “I thought TFG hated Kelce? I mean doesn’t this girl Tailor Smith owe her success to her man? The way it’s always been in ‘Murika? Who IS she, anyway? I mean, has she ever done anything of note?”

  80. 80.

    Tony Jay

    Got to say I’m loving the cognitive knots the FTFGuardian and its transactional pals on the Labour Right are being put in by the slaughter in Gaza. The editorial staff would love to go back to shaking their heads at Israel’s actions and calling for a more humane foreign policy from the West, while the newnewlabour corporate franchise opportunity would much prefer to take an easy glide in America’s slipstream towards whatever policy Biden settles on, but for both of them there’s that pesky near decade where they worked hand in hand with the Tories and the Israeli Lobby to redefine everything outside the most extreme Likudnik bootlicking as antisemitism, and it keeps tripping them up and flushing whatever credibility they think they have down the toilet.

    Latest self-inflicted nut punch comes with the newnewlabour candidate for the heavily Muslim Rochdale seat making some comments about October 7th that, if a left wing or centre-left Party member had stood in the same room as the brother of a person who had ridden in a taxi driven by someone who had a similar name to someone who had said something 100 times less controvertial, would have led to immediate suspension and expulsion from the Party. But because he’s a newnewlabour choice (and the newnewlabour apparatchiks who control MP selection are fucking morons who are only interested in keeping lefties out) they’re all “Do we really want to let the Right define what is and isn’t antisemitism?” and “But he apologised, don’t be meeeaaannn”. Because when it comes to competitive hypocrisy no one, and I mean no one, outdoes the vermin of the Labour Right.

      Tiny violins. Fuckers.  

  82. 82.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Another Scott: “Ok, you ban it. What replaces it??”

    I rather suspect the almost 60 countries that have already banned it can give us a few ideas.

    As to,

    Lots and lots of essential chemicals and compounds are highly toxic. Some of the compounds used in electronics manufacture are incredibly toxic. That means they have to be used responsibly.

    Uh huh, like in a controlled environment. Not spraying them in fields where people wander by when the wind is blowing or the rain falls? So, apples and oranges.

  83. 83.

    Jeffro

    @p.a.:Biden: Commanders, or Ravens?  Or Iggles?  Born in Scranton, so maybe Stillers?  One map shows Delaware split north/south Eagles/Ravens.

    The DE thing is true!  When we lived there, it was Eagles up north, Ravens down south, and a pretty good sprinkling of Steelers fans throughout.

    (Plus there was this one guy who always rooted for the Chiefs and got funny looks… ;)

  84. 84.

    AWOL

    @Kay: Putin is a fanatical Christianist. It’s not just for show(trial): Gray, John. The New Leviathans, (FSG, 2023), pp. 34-35.

  85. 85.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: ​ So you think Biden has a whip he can crack and make Bibi snap to?

    I’m not saying I agree or not with everything Biden has done there, only that I recognize the complexities involved in the situation and that it is way above my pay grade.

    Glad I am that it is not my problem.

  89. 89.

    Bupalos

    @AWOL: These things are not mutually exclusive, in fact they go hand in hand. Putin “believes” in Christianity as a kind of convenient public-facing affirmation structure for his grandiosity and racist mysticism, nothing more.

  90. 90.

    Starfish

    @Another Scott: Should we put highly toxic things on food or no?

    There is a difference between toxins in processes where we are likely not consuming the stuff or putting them on our skin and those where we are.

  95. 95.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay: I was on the treadmill at the gym, and the reporters were asking Putin to weigh in on some controversy about Christianity. I was yelling, “He’s a KGB operative! He doesn’t believe in God! Stop asking him those questions!”

    ETA: This was when he was with GWB at a press conference. I can’t remember what the controversy was, some teacher leaving out “under God” in the pledge of allegiance or something.

  96. 96.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I think saying Biden is helpless while saying Trump would be an existential world threat is contradictory and conflating every possible real world effort with “waving a magic wand” or “Green Lantern” or whatever the current straw man can be used as a way to shut the (uncomfortable) subject down.

    Of course Joe Biden as “the United States” has influence. Trump did too, which we acknowleged while he was President. It wouldn’t matter who is President if he didn’t.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I think saying Biden is helpless while saying Trump would be an existential world threat is contradictory and conflating every possible real world effort with “waving a magic wand” or “Green Lantern” or whatever the current straw man can be used as a way to shut the (uncomfortable) subject down.

    Of course Joe Biden as “the United States” has influence. Trump did too, which we acknowleged while he was President. It wouldn’t matter who is President if he didn’t.

  98. 98.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Kay:

    I think saying Biden is helpless

    I’m not seeing where Ozark said that.

    ETA: And “Slick Willie”? Really?

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    The Bush II clips are just excruciating. He’s all but star struck. No wonder he took the word of a person with the nickname “Curveball”.

    I always want to yell “get off your knees!” when watching conservatives debase themselves before Daddy.

  100. 100.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: It’s amazing to me how many people can be gullible to people’s claims to be religious. Look at what they do, not what comes out of their mouths, to decide whether they truly believe in the religion they profess to practice. It’s easy to say the “right” words, it’s a lot harder to live by the actual precepts of most religions. One favor TFG did for us was to expose how most professed Christians actually don’t believe in what Jesus said you should do; their Christianity is performative, not real. For lots of people it’s as much a social club as a religious belief. In many small towns the churches were the center of civic life; if you didn’t belong to one, you were left out of a lot of things.

  101. 101.

    artem1s

    @BC in Illinois: ​ 

    The act, which updated the 20-year-old copyright and royalty laws, in order to bring them into the era of streaming services, etc., was “passed unanimously by Congress after years of work by its proponents.” Variety has a good summary of the law.

    Trump did nothing.

    But, but he got out his manly sharpie and signed it in front of an adoring crowd of sycophants! That surely means he did all the work!

  102. 102.

    Salty Sam .

    @Betty Cracker: Rubio especially looked dumb as a brick on one of the Sunday shows when asked about it.

    To be fair, Betty, he looks dumb as a brick pretty much ALL of the time.

  103. 103.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: ​I did not say Biden didn’t have influence, just that it is extremely limited when it comes to Bibi and what he will or will not do. Bibi got the war he wanted and he’s not about to give it up. Least of all for the sake of Palestinian civilian lives. He’s got a Zionist dream to pursue.

  104. 104.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Soprano2: In many small towns the churches were the center of civic life; if you didn’t belong to one, you were left out of a lot of things.

    And glad I am for it.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    They think the United States calling for a cerasefire would be influential. It seems to matter – the United States seem to think doing or not doing that matter, or Biden wouldn’t be refusing to do it. If it doesn’t matter at all I would think he would do it just because it would be politically helpful to him.

    Every negotiation ever “It doesn’t matter if I give you X, Y or Z!” Opposing side “OK, if it doesn’t matter than give it to me”. It matters. That’s why it’s an impasse.

  106. 106.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    MSNBC found a Palestinian lawmaker who is pro-Trump because he’ll be better on Palestine.

    At a diner in Ohio, no doubt.

  108. 108.

    satby

    @Kay: No one said Biden was helpless, just pointed out he’s not the president of Israel. But, you’ve never been one to let facts get in the way of your arguments, have you?

    “Slick Willie” huh?

    Edit: and there’s been enough in the news about Blinken working with Qatar and other Arab states to broker a cease fire. Both Hamas and Israel have not agreed.

  109. 109.

    Barbara

    @Kay:

    He was always getting into spats with celebrities as a pathetic ploy to be coupled with them in any way, even negatively. Swift is genuinely confident. She’ll never respond to him.

    It’s not just confidence, and I find it hard to explain how weird this obsession with Taylor Swift seems to me — it’s like Taylor Swift operates in a different plane of existence that Trump and Trump’s minions didn’t know existed until she started dating an NFL player.  And I don’t understand how you could be alive and functioning in the U.S. not to have at least some familiarity with how popular and successful Taylor Swift is.

    I knew who Taylor Swift was even though I am not a “fan’s fan” and don’t own any of her music — I hear it in my fitness class tapes, radio stations and wherever else it gets casually played. I know about her tours and her fights with her record label and the fact that she stood up to someone who sexually assaulted her.

    It’s like a complete self-own: tell me how out of touch you are without telling me how out of touch you are.

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Because Putin told Bush he (Putin) is a born again Christian.

    Gotta admit I missed that detail at the time, and it’s the sort of thing that would have jumped out at me.

    One more example of the tremendous gullibility of evangelicals.  Usually the consequences are a bit more low-level.

  112. 112.

    artem1s

    @Kay: ​ 

    Bush II had Bush I (who probably wasn’t a bad role model) – why was he such a chump about people?

    Poppy was an awful person as was his father and all of his sons. Raygun would have never gotten the nomination in 1980 without Poppy and his cohort of awful people. He’s responsible for that whole gang of shitheels (Cheney, Rove, Ashcroft, “Torture Porn” Alberto Gonzolez) that camped out in the WH for 12 years and another 8 under W. They appointed some of the worst justices who ever sat on the court just so they could get the vote of White Christian Nationalist. And let’s not forget W had another role model in Barb who by all accounts was as awful as the whole damn family she married into. W was a grown man who had agency to make decisions for himself – he was perfectly fine with who Putin was because he’s just like everyone in the Bush Crime Family – cruel, self serving, and devoid of empathy. The whole “TX cowboy clearing brush on the farm” bullshit was a cynical act for the MSM and they ate it right up.

  113. 113.

    pluky

    @O. Felix Culpa: I voted for Bill Clinton twice happily while referring to him in casual conversation as “Slick Willie”. After all, the sobriquet was bestowed on him back in Arkansas by those who knew him long before his Presidency. As a fellow Southerner, I appreciate the often aptness of such naming.

  114. 114.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly: Made me look…

    ConsumerNotice.org:

    Safer Chemical Paraquat Alternatives for Farming

    Farmers can choose several synthetic chemical alternatives to paraquat that have fewer use restrictions and better safety profiles. These include popular products such as Roundup, which contains glyphosate, and dicamba.

    Many chemical alternatives, while technically considered safer than paraquat dichloride, still pose serious risks to human, animal and environmental health. Certain jurisdictions have banned some of the most common direct paraquat alternatives, such as diquat.

    Chemical Herbicides

    Carfentrazone-ethyl
    Dicamba
    Diquat
    Diuron
    Glufosinate ammonium
    Glyphosate
    Mesotrione
    Metribuzin

    Some chemical pesticides require heavy and frequent application for maximum effectiveness. This increases the potential environmental and health hazards associated with their use. According to a WWF Germany report, low use rates can help mitigate the negative impacts of paraquat alternatives. Additional safety measures, including using appropriate spray adjuvants, pressure nozzles and spray carrier volume, can help further reduce risks associated with chemical herbicides.

    One of paraquat’s most attractive qualities is that it provides fast control of a wide range of weeds. Many of the chemical alternatives to paraquat offer much more limited use. As a result, farmers must use multiple chemicals and more frequent applications, which could mean greater harm from pesticides to workers and the environment.

    […]

    There are never-ending lawsuits about glyphosate, as we know.

    Let’s see… Dicamba:

    WASHINGTON— Researchers at the National Institutes of Health have found that use of the pesticide dicamba can increase the risk of developing numerous cancers, including liver and intrahepatic bile duct cancers, acute and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, and mantle cell lymphoma.

    The findings come as use of the drift-prone herbicide has skyrocketed across millions of acres throughout much of the Midwest and South in the past three years due to the Environmental Protection Agency’s approval of dicamba on genetically engineered soybeans and cotton.

    The study, published in the peer-reviewed International Journal of Epidemiology, is the most comprehensive epidemiological study on dicamba’s association with cancer to date. It followed nearly 50,000 pesticide applicators in Iowa and North Carolina for over two decades, documenting pesticide use and cancer incidence.

    […]

    Etc.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116.

    Soprano2

    @Barbara: I read that labels are now trying to write clauses into artist’s contracts to prevent them from doing what Swift did with her music. That’s how influential she is! How anyone could not know that is beyond me.

  118. 118.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @pluky:

    Sorry, I think at this date and after all the serious good Bill Clinton has done, it’s disrespectful and a bit odd for someone on “our” side to dredge up that sobriquet. Gratuitous.

  119. 119.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I remember that, George W saying he could see into Putin’s soul and that Putin was a good person, all because he claimed to be a Christian. Lots and lots of people evidently can be fooled that way just by people saying “I’m a Bible-believing Christian just like you”. It’s lazy.

    ETA – in other news, it’s snowing here. Also, my cat continues to like the new cat fountain. I’ve had to show it to him a couple of times; I put it on the counter because we have dogs, and I know if I put it on the floor the water would be gone in about two hours.

  120. 120.

    satby

    @pluky: and that became Republican framing to smear Clinton as dishonest.  Which is what the objections are about. We normally strive to avoid Republican framing. But I guess if you’re going to insult the current president, you might as well gratuitously insult a previous one.

  122. 122.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Another Scott:

    I’m no expert on this stuff. But my question on these reports is always – “Ok, you ban it. What replaces it??”

    The EU has banned it. What are they using instead?

    Lots and lots of essential chemicals and compounds are highly toxic. Some of the compounds used in electronics manufacture are incredibly toxic. That means they have to be used responsibly.

    There’s a pretty big difference in terms of exposure hazard to non-workers between using toxic chemicals inside a manufacturing plant and using toxic chemicals in agriculture

    ETA: Looks like OzarkHillbilly beat me to this 40 posts back.

  123. 123.

    lowtechcyclist

    @AWOL:

    Putin is a fanatical Christianist. It’s not just for show(trial): Gray, John. The New Leviathans, (FSG, 2023), pp. 34-35.

    There’s a world of difference between being a fanatical Christianist and having had a born-again experience. Just sayin’.

  124. 124.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @artem1s:

    One of the best and most succinct summaries of the Bush affliction, particularly referencing the awful people he brought along to the “Reagan Revolution”.

    We’re paying the price for that every damned day to this day.

  125. 125.

    AWOL

    @Bupalos: Yes, he’s certainly Dostoyevskian, as I think it may relate to Orthodox Christianity being the only type of legitimate Christianity, which we see displayed in such pathetic tools as Rod Dreher.

    However, many of his acts a dictator seem to run on his dark view of what Christianity is, which he seems to have picked up from his dying mother late in life. I think, as per Gray’s assessment, he may be an earnestly dangerous neo-convert with a god on his side. He may actually believe his own bullshit, and that makes him even more dangerous.

  126. 126.

    lowtechcyclist

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    So you think Biden has a whip he can crack and make Bibi snap to?

    Even if there’s nothing the U.S. can do to stop Israel from doing what it’s been doing in Gaza, Biden can make clear that he’s 100% opposed to it.

    It’s far better to express your opposition to evil than to let people think you’re OK with it, even when there isn’t a damned thing you can do to stop it.

  128. 128.

    Scout211

    In other news, the documents case will be active today in Loose Cannon’s courtroom.  She will be in separate closed door meetingstoday with both sides.

    IANAL, but separate closed door meetings? Sounds fishy to me.  But it doesn’t surprise me.

    CNN — 
    The classified documents criminal case against Donald Trump and others heats up again Monday with crucial hearings over access to evidence that could impact whether the former president is tried before the November election.

    But even then, the proceeding before Judge Aileen Cannon in federal court in Fort Pierce, Florida, won’t be public.

    Trump arrived at the federal courthouse Monday morning as he and his attorneys plan to meet for several hours with Cannon in a closed-door hearing without prosecutors present to discuss the case “in detail,” according to court documents. Special counsel Jack Smith’s team will meet with Cannon afterward.

    . . .

    The defense teams have been furiously at work over the past several days – including on Super Bowl Sunday – preparing for the hearing Monday, writing motions and reviewing evidence in a sensitive compartmented information facility, called a SCIF, in Florida, according to multiple sources familiar with the team.

    In addition to the upcoming hearing, they face a major deadline for court filings in less than two weeks, as they continue to strategize for ways to delay the trial. They are also fighting with prosecutors over making witness names public now, well before the trial.

  129. 129.

    JML

    @artem1s: Yeah, the Bush family has always been pretty damn awful, but they covered over their problems and flaws with good manners and by following the “rules” of Washington DC and by not airing their dirty laundry in public (which they could get away with because they were rich). Poppy was a nasty SOB, cold and calculating, and desperate to prove he was a tough guy. Barbara was the family consigliere, who tracked all the grudges, never forgot a slight, served as the loyalty police and made sure payback happened to anyone who crossed the family. the sons are brutal: W, the idiot drunk; Jeb the “smart one” who is barely human, Neil the crook who was dumb enough to put his name on stuff…maybe Marvin is ok, you never hear about him.

    they’re the Bushwood “elite” and you’d hate them all.

  131. 131.

    RevRick

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, both The NY Times and the Washington Post gave Trump’s remarks about NATO major front page play. It harkens back to Neville Chamberlain declaring he obtained “peace in our time,” by allowing Hitler to carve up Czechoslovakia in 1938.
    Sycophants like Rubio may try to excuse it by claiming Trump was just kidding or saying his usual stuff he doesn’t mean, but to even raise the possibility as a “joke” renders all US treaty obligations meaningless. It tells the whole world that we aren’t a reliable ally.

  132. 132.

    Manyakitty

    @RevRick: if you get a chance, I’d love your take on the essay I just linked. It’s by my favorite rabbi, who I often use as a moral compass.

  133. 133.

    Princess

    The same people who dump on young people for seeing voting as an expression of their soul’s true inner being and thus don’t want to vote for Biden or Clinton or Obama or Gore can’t stand to have the people they vote for/voted for criticized in any manner whatsoever…because they too see their votes as some kind of expression of their values and inner self.

    Kay said a few days ago that she was transactional about Biden. I’m transactional about all of them. We don’t know them, we don’t know whats in their hearts. We know (we should know) they ALL have massive egos and huge self-regard or they would not think they were good enough to be president. The only question I ask is: who will do more for me and the people and Issues I care about, and of those people, who has the skills to get those starbursts in the eyes of the people who aren’t transactional so they will vote for him/her?

    I’m transactional because of Bill Clinton. I was a huge fan and I believed in him. He’s a creep with women. I say this not because of “republican framing” but based on people I trust who encountered him at close range. There’s a reason he’s called Slick Willie. I’m still glad he beat Bush I and Dole. It was a transaction and he ws the best we could do at the time. I don’t need to sentimentalize him.

  134. 134.

    Warblewarble

    When Biden, Blinken and Austin rushed in to give unquestioned support and what has been acted on as a blank cheque by the apartheid regime, they forfeited all moral claims. When the final butchers bill comes in ,it will be to the everlasting shame of the US.

  135. 135.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Scout211: This is normal.  Andy McCabe talked about it on yesterday’s Jack podcast.  The Prosecution gets a bunch of alone time with the judge.  This is one of the few issues that the Defense gets some too.

  137. 137.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Princess: ​
     

    It was a transaction and he was the best we could do at the time. I don’t need to sentimentalize him.

    Exactly. I only half-jokingly repeat something I saw on on twitter: “The best two Republican presidents in my lifetime were Clinton and Obama”. ‘Transactional’ is probably a better way to put it.
    I was a big supporter of Edwards back in the day. I still have a campaign mug that I keep on my desk as a reminder to *never* get to vested in politicians at that level.

  138. 138.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Soprano2: ​ They are calling for us to get 1-3″. Not much but enough to cancel Baby Girl time because of our “crooked and steep” roads.

    Nothing yet.

  139. 139.

    RevRick

    @Suzanne: For reactionaries everything is hierarchical. They believe that there’s a natural order which naturally puts them at the top. Whites over other races. Men over women. Parents over children. Rich over poor.
    They may claim that God is the ultimate sovereign and fervently believe so, but the reality is that their God always seems to bless their tyranny.

  140. 140.

    FelonyGovt

    What happened to Trump’s “holy war” against Taylor Swift? Did he, somewhere in his lizard brain, realize what a bad idea that was and decided to try to suck up to her?

  143. 143.

    Baud

    @TBone:

    In a statement, DNC spokesperson Alex Floyd pointed to the fact that Kennedy’s super PAC has received a significant amount of money from Timothy Mellon, a major donor to a super PAC backing Trump’s presidential bid.
    “It’s fitting that the first national ad promoting Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s candidacy was bought and paid for by Donald Trump’s largest donor this cycle. RFK Jr. is nothing more than a Trump stalking horse in this race,” Floyd said.

  146. 146.

    satby

    @Princess: jeezus, that’s a 30 year old insult that isn’t in common play anymore. I’m transactional about all my votes and have been since I started voting in 197mumble. Criticism is fine, it was a gratuitous insult delivered during another nonsensical one complaining about Biden not doing what he in fact doing, but not ostentatiously enough to suit everyone.

  147. 147.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Princess: I have plenty of criticisms of Bill Clinton, but not enough to make me ever want to sound like Phyllis Shlafly and Rush Limbaugh.

  148. 148.

    Kay

    @satby:

    It’s insulting to criticize a US President? Disagree.

    This is Joe Biden’s foreign policy – in the US, Presidents are responsible for foreign policy. Biden wouldn’t deny that – why would I? The demand from the opposition to US policy in Gaza is not “control Netanyahu” it’s “The United States calls for a ceasefire”. That would be Joe Biden.

  149. 149.

    Barbara

    @Soprano2: If you pick up an old copy of People in the dentist’s office waiting room there is at least a 25% chance or higher that Taylor Swift will appear somewhere in there.  My mom was an opera fanatic and we didn’t own any kind of stereophonic device until 1969 but she still knew who the Beatles were and could sing their more popular tunes.

    I think it highlights how many conservatives have gone out of their way not to participate in popular culture, or to create their own versions.  I guess it’s destabilizing to be reminded in ways you can’t avoid that no, you are not actually succeeding at remaking society in your image.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @satby:

    Just like I cheered Joe Biden for ending the US presence in Afghanistan (credit for foreign policy) I hold him responsible for his (mistaken, in my view) approach to Gaza. He doesn’t get credit for some of it without blame for some of it.

  152. 152.

    marcopolo

    @Warblewarble: so, go back to the events of Oct 7. of course they (the US) rushed in to provide support and aid for one of our allies in the wake of a horrible act of violence against peaceful civilians.  that is called context. do i think the Israeli response has been appropriate, no. it’s been over-the-top (as Biden noted yesterday), indiscriminate, and just all around terrible (alot of that is due to Hamas’ strategy of embedding themselves in the general palestinian population, a lot of that is how Israel is carrying out their response–there is linkage between the two). if you believe the reporting, the administration knows this and has been working, hard, behind the scenes with Quatar, Egypt, KSA, Iran, and others to find a resolution that brings peace and a workable plan for a future that provides a path to sovereignty for the palestinian people. i hope that is possible, but the history of the past 50 years (and longer) leaves me less than optomistic. for starters, both the current leadership of Israel and the current leadership of Hamas would need to change. I’m pretty sure the US doesn’t have the leverage to accomplish that.

  153. 153.

    RevRick

    @Manyakitty: This is a great article! Unfortunately, it suffers from the kind of nuance that those with fascist tendencies refuse to accept, because they view questioning and reason as treasonous.

    In seminary I learned about the JEDP construction of (the Hexateuch) Pentateuch + Joshua, where J is the earliest, written down in David’s reign and refers to the divine as Lord, E is a Northern Israel counter narrative and refers to the divine as God, D shows Josiah’s reform and sees history through a certain moral lens, and P is the Priestly narrative, which dates to the post exile period, gave us Genesis 1, but mainly obsesses about the things priests obsess about.

    So, I agree with the author, and just point out that the name Israel itself means “wrestles with God).

  154. 154.

    Kelly

    The installation of Mom’s new heat pump has begun. Her old one quit a couple weeks ago after 28 years. We’ve been heating with a wood pellet stove. It keeps us warm but it’s noisy. The old unit needed the pellet stoves help once we got into the 30’s. The new one will probably manage on it’s own.

    The new heat pump qualifies for a $2,000 tax credit. Unfortunately the credit is non-refundable. Useless to my Mom since her income is low enough she pays no income tax.

  155. 155.

    Manyakitty

    @RevRick: thank you for your response–I always worry about confirmation bias on my part, especially on such thorny issues.

    And I had no idea about the meaning of “Israel.” How appropriate.

  156. 156.

    satby

    @Kay:The demand from the opposition to US policy in Gaza is not “control Netanyahu” it’s “The United States calls for a ceasefire”

    And it has repeatedly, and the Secretary of State has spent weeks shuttling between capitals of neighboring countries that might also have influence; which your criticism doesn’t even acknowlege. And that a tentative deal brokered by Qatar and Blinken was scuttled by Netanyahu’s partners Hamas. Facts, completely ignored by you. So are you dishonest or just misinformed?

  157. 157.

    marcopolo

    @Kay: I hear where you are coming from.  But I wonder where the utility is in the US publicly calling for a cease fire if neither of the primary antagonists want one (don’t you think the Biden admin is pushing for this behind the scenes?). Is it for purely political reasons, to make gestures to the Arab-American community?  I could see the value in that. But there is also a downside to issuing a position that is roundly ignored by the combatants.  I would also point out that your example, the US pulling out of Afghanistan, was a situation where the US was one of the primary combatants and had the ability to do the withdrawal unilaterally.  Not at all like Israel/Hamas

    Edited to add: one of the things I really like about the Biden admin is they do the work behind the scenes and more often than not get shit done. Like with the rail strike. Yes, the admin imposed a settlement that did not get the rail workers everything they wanted but did avert a shutdown.  Then they continued pressuring the rail companies until a few month later the workers got their sick leave.  The admin didn’t get as much credit for the final win, and they should have made a bigger public deal about it, but so much jawboning is required to get shit done.  You can’t just hold a big press conference and expect that to work.

  158. 158.

    JWR

    @Warblewarble: You posted last night about six year old Hind Rajab. I heard the story last week on DW News, just as the ambulance set out to attempt a rescue. The story was horrific enough, and then it got worse.

    Five-year-old Palestinian girl found dead after being trapped in car under Israeli fire
    By Abeer Salman and Khader Al Za’anoun, CNN
    2 minute read Updated 8:56 AM EST, Sun February 11, 2024

    CNN — A 5-year-old Palestinian girl who was trapped in a car with her dead relatives after it came under Israeli fire in Gaza last month has been found dead.

    On January 29, Hind Rajab had been traveling in a car with her uncle, his wife and their four children, fleeing fighting in northern Gaza, when they came under Israeli fire, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS).

    “The child [Hind Rajab] and everyone in the car were found killed by the Israeli Army near the Fares petrol station in the Tal Al-Hawa area, southwest of Gaza City, after about two weeks of her unknown fate due to the Israeli military operation in the area,” according to Khader Al Za’anoun, a Palestinian journalist working for CNN who spoke to the child’s grandfather.

    The PRCS also confirmed the death of two ambulance workers dispatched to rescue the girl.

    “The occupation deliberately targeted the Red Crescent crew despite obtaining prior coordination to allow the ambulance to reach the location to rescue the girl Hind,” read the statement.

    The Ambulance is no longer recognizable, blown to bits after having received assurances from the Israelis that they would be allowed to do their job. For me, this girl has become the face of this horrible war. I don’t know if they have the audio at this link, but it’s powerful.

  162. 162.

    Brachiator

    Just waking up in Southern California.

    I hear that there is a considerable number of people calling in sick to work today. On one local radio station, almost all of the regular morning personalities are out.

  164. 164.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @satby:

    It’s a shitshow of horrible tragedy, and Netenyahu is a vile, genocidal bastard, but it’s a complicated as Hell shitshow.  Throw in that the US’s support of Israel is the only thing that stopped all of Israel’s enemies from attacking while Israel is distracted, exchanging tens of thousands dead for millions dead… yuck.  There are no good solutions and neither Hamas nor Netenyahu want good solutions.

    I am glad I am not Biden.  Trying to find any kind of least awful solution to this situation is a challenge I would not be up to, and no matter what he does, a lot of people will loudly hate him.  He sure as Hell won’t get any credit for anything.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: During the lame duck period in 2016, at one point he said he thought *Obama* liked him. Because Obama had invited him to the White House and met with him politely to do standard continuity of government stuff (you know, the basic courtesy Trump did not extend to Biden).

    To Trump, this was all about whether Obama liked him or not, not part of the job of being President.

  168. 168.

    Quiltingfool

    @Princess: I am also transactional about every politician.  I know that presidents will do things I don’t agree with or like, but it ain’t all about me.  I place my vote with the one I think will do the best good for the many.

    We don’t need to be in a cult (my guy/gal can do NO wrong) in re a president.  We can criticize, as is our right, while acknowledging the good.  A healthy democracy needs criticism, else how can we do better moving forward?

  169. 169.

    Brachiator

    @marcopolo:

    i hope that is possible, but the history of the past 50 years (and longer) leaves me less than optomistic. for starters, both the current leadership of Israel and the current leadership of Hamas would need to change. I’m pretty sure the US doesn’t have the leverage to accomplish that.

    US Special Envoy George Mitchell helped shepherd the Good Friday Agreement, which brought a rough, but real peace to Northern Ireland.

    Who knows what might be possible in the Middle East.

  170. 170.

    Kay

    @marcopolo:

    I think it’s bad policy. When there’s an accounting of this – and there will be an accounting- it isn’t going to help Israel at all. They’ve completely lost goodwill and it’s with more than with Arab Americans and some mythical group of “dumb” college students. Most people oppose this policy. It’s not even just Democrats. It isn’t going to get more popular as it goes on – it will get less popular.

  171. 171.

    marcopolo

    @Frankensteinbeck: yep. only the most complicated shitiest intractable problems wind up on the president’s desk. easier stuff is almost entirely taken care of downstream. respect for Truman’s “the buck stops here” comment (thinking of that scene between Truman & Oppenheimer in the movie–which may be fictional, i dunno, but the weight of creating the bomb vs using it).

  172. 172.

    Quiltingfool

    @Warblewarble: The US has done MANY shameful things in our history and we are paying the butchers bill on those decisions.  Slavery, subjugation and attempted genocide of Native Americans, meddling in the sovereignty of different nations to boost corporate interests (Iran, Central America), just to name a few.  And we are all paying for that today, and the innocents who were pawns are paying far more.

    I don’t have an answer or a solution.  I can only hope that we can do better for the innocents. And vote for people who try to do that.

  173. 173.

    marcopolo

    @Kay: well, i’d say the Israelis have even lost the goodwill of the Biden admin. and aside from a public call for a ceasefire i am still not sure exactly what you are advocating for policy-wise.  should we cut off all aid to Israel? just let them fend for themselves? i honestly don’t know what the ramifications of that would be. yeah, maybe that would be the final push to dislodge Netanyahu as Prime Minister (which is a primary sticking point in resolving this mess), but that isn’t guaranteed. Otoh, i can also see a lot of really bad things happening (to Israel) as a result. as Frankensteinbeck said upthread, the entire situation is effing awful to the nth.

  174. 174.

    wjca

    @Barbara: I don’t understand how you could be alive and functioning in the U.S. not to have at least some familiarity with how popular and successful Taylor Swift is.

    It’s entirely possible.  I pay little enough attention to popular music that a year ago I had never heard of her.  Including her endorsing Biden in 2020.  Just not on my radar screen at all.

  175. 175.

    Brachiator

    @RevRick:

    In seminary I learned about the JEDP construction of (the Hexateuch) Pentateuch + Joshua

    This brings back memories of some biblical studies classes I took in college. I found it interesting that some people who went to theological schools and later became ministers would ignore the nuance behind the biblical text for the simplistic view that the Bible is a uniform text inspired by God.

    I always found the image of man wrestling with God (or the Angel) to be an interesting metaphor because it implies an ongoing right to challenge the Deity, not mindless subservience to religious dogma.

  177. 177.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Princess:

    I think at this date and after all the serious good Bill Clinton has done

    Quoting myself, as I am impressed by how that statement appears to have been turned into “sentimentalizing.” So that my meaning is not missed, my reference was to Clinton’s post-presidential work in the last several decades such as getting hostages freed from North Korea and supporting significant humanitarian and climate change work through the Clinton Foundation. What is the utility in recycling today decades-old Republican slurs that are neither useful–except to RWNJs–or funny?

  179. 179.

    Princess

    @Quiltingfool: I’m also mindful that Biden was maybe my 6th primary choice and he’s been a better president than 1-5 would have been. Which doesn’t mean he’s perfect. I really don’t know about Israel/Gaza, what he is doing in public, behind the scenes, what he should be doing. He’s not superhuman and he can make mistakes both political and moral. I’m finding the discussion between Kay and marcopolo in this thread very interesting.

  181. 181.

    Kay

    @marcopolo:

    I think a public call for a ceasefire is neccesary. Because this isn’t just Netanyahu. Recall that we were told that there was a “war council” who weren’t maniacs who would temper and mitigate Netanyahu. So where are the war council on this?

    I’m not even going back to October – I’m talking about an escalation last night. It concerns me on humanitarian grounds, it concerns me re US credibility on Putin/civilian casualties and it concerns me politically, because it could contribute to a loss for Biden.

  182. 182.

    Quiltingfool

    I’m making more comments this morning than usual.  Could be because I’m at the laundromat washing rugs a big quilts, instead of in the quilt cave, lol!

    Laundromats have really changed since I used them years and years ago!  I had to put on my reading glasses and study the machine to figure out how to operate them!

    Don’t get me started on my new dishwasher…I leaned against it while fixing a salad and turned the power on.  Luckily it beep-boops so I could turn it off.

    I’m the old lady shouting at clouds today – “Why can’t we have simple dials!”

  183. 183.

    Betty Cracker

    @marcopolo: This is 100% speculation, but my guess is the Israelis retain the Biden admin’s good will but not the Netanyahu govt. Since Biden himself and almost all of his current team witnessed Netanyahu’s vile machinations during the Obama admin, I don’t think anyone had illusions about who Netanyahu is. But they are sincerely committed to Israel, if not its PM.

    i don’t know what Israeli support for the conduct of the war is right now, but early on, the public supported smashing Hamas and probably thought civilian casualties in Gaza were acceptable, just like most Americans were cool with bombing the shit out of Afghanistan after 9/11 and then mostly supported the invasion and occupation of a country that had fuck-all to do with 9/11.

    Maybe Biden is waiting for Netanyahu’s prosecution of the war to lose support in Israel before moving against the Netanyahu govt in a meaningful way? Could be a long wait.

  184. 184.

    lowtechcyclist

    I don’t know who else has been asking for what, but my ask would be for a total, unequivocal condemnation by the U.S. of Israel’s actions in Gaza for the past four months, and a call for complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza followed by a ceasefire on their part.

    I don’t see the U.S. issuing such a condemnation or calling for Israel to do those things.  If our Administration has done so and I missed it, I apologize.

  185. 185.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @RevRick:

    They may claim that God is the ultimate sovereign and fervently believe so, but the reality is that their God always seems to bless their tyranny.

    Their God also always seems to hate the very same people they hate.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    @marcopolo:

    I just hope like hell there’s no “swing for the fences! solve this for good!” going on behind the scenes on the US side, because obviously Israel or Hamas could play them for months if Israel and/or Hamas want to keep this going and knew the US had more ambitious aims of a broader settlement. I could see that calculation being appealing – we’re allowing this massive innocent bloodshed because in the end we’re going to broker a broader deal which saves future lives. Sometimes hope can be a very dangerous thing to people who are dying short term. I hope they’re negotiating to stop the bleeding, not cure both patients, IOW.

  189. 189.

    Tony Jay

    @JWR:

    Clearly everyone involved in this unfortunate incident – the child, her family, the Palestinian Red Crescent, the journalists reporting on it, the journalists who would have reported on it if they hadn’t been killed by the IDF, etc – are trading in, or at the very least giving unwelcome credence to, antisemitic tropes about Jews sacrificing the blood of non-Jewish children. No one knows what really happened here, but the willingness to so immediately traduce the brave Israeli soldiers protecting their country from Hamas terrorists is suggestive of other, more sinister, motives, and perhaps a time of thought and contemplation would be in order before guilt is so conveniently assigned.

    Snarky. Yes. But I’ve been hearing ‘arguments’ like that trotted out for a very long time now to justify the IDF’s casual brutality. Usually in the pages of the FTFGuardian.

    Sickening. But isn’t it all?

  190. 190.

    Kay

    @marcopolo:

    It also seems obviious to me that Israeli intelligence is not as good as advertised. They missed an attack in their own backyard. I mean, the US missed 9/11 too but the US has 330 million people with tens of thousands in and out of the country on any given day – Israel has only 9 million people – a small country- and they get about 4 billion a year from the US for defense/intelligence. They could literally track every single person in the country.

    I think we should recalibrate expectations/credibility based on performance.

  191. 191.

    Eyeroller

    @lowtechcyclist: I don’t see how Israel can achieve what it at least says is its stated objective of removing Hamas,  without killing all Gazans or at least all male Gazans.  Hamas is able to blend in with the civilians, and does so, and yes that’s itself a war crime but they’re not a real military, they are still mainly a terrorist organization.   Israel is likely succeeding in massively increasing support of and recruitment for Hamas, however.

    I think some people hope that Biden will make mouth noises that firmly state what the US wants, even if we have very limited ability to enforce it (since we are not going to send troops).  When people are deep in a very emotional situation, reassurances like “I feel your pain” can be helpful even if it’s superficial.

  193. 193.

    Brachiator

    @Eyeroller:

    I don’t see how Israel can achieve what it at least says is its stated objective of removing Hamas,  without killing all Gazans or at least all male Gazans.  Hamas is able to blend in with the civilians, and does so, and yes that’s itself a war crime but they’re not a real military, they are still mainly a terrorist organization.   Israel is likely succeeding in massively increasing support of and recruitment for Hamas, however.

    Replace “Hamas” with “Provisional IRA” and “Israel” with “The United Kingdom” and repeat.

  194. 194.

    Kay

    Does anyone know how the special election in NY looks? I saw the NYTimes has a GOTV article up for Republicans. Makes me nervous.

  195. 195.

    Eyeroller

    @Brachiator: And of course “The Troubles” went on for decades. We can fervently hope that something will be settled–and there has to be a political component, somehow–but we need some short-term resolution ASAP.

  197. 197.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Eyeroller:

    I don’t see how Israel can achieve what it at least says is its stated objective of removing Hamas,  without killing all Gazans or at least all male Gazans.  Hamas is able to blend in with the civilians, and does so

    This. If viewed through a ‘Israel is trying to kill Hamas’ lens, it’s hard to see how its policy succeeds short of genocide.

    And obviously I can’t see into the minds of the Israeli leaders, but ISTM that their actions are consistent with another avenue of genocide: to make conditions so horrible that Egypt and other Arab countries have no morally tolerable choice but to take in the Palestinians of Gaza into their own countries, so that there are no more Palestinians in Gaza to speak of, and Israel can move into the ethnically cleansed territory.  So far Egypt refuses to play along.

    and yes that’s itself a war crime but they’re not a real military, they are still mainly a terrorist organization. Israel is likely succeeding in massively increasing support of and recruitment for Hamas, however.

    Certainly. No matter how the Palestinians view Hamas, they surely see Israel as far worse.  If they didn’t do so before the past four months, they surely do now.  I can only believe that the past four months have set back the cause of Middle East peace by decades.

    So what should the West do about Hamas?  I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I keep hearing in these threads that the real leaders of Hamas aren’t in Gaza.  And whether or not they are, Hamas is undoubtedly getting funding and other resources from elsewhere. ISTM that the U.S. should work with the Arab countries (most of which either have recognized Israel, or have accepted its continued existence as a fait accompli) to track down the leaders of Hamas, and dry up its funding sources.  Given that Osama bin Laden sleeps with the fishes on account of our intelligence agencies and special forces, I’d think that the same could be done to a few of Hamas’ leaders.

  198. 198.

    JWR

    @Tony Jay: “Sickening. But isn’t it all?”

    Sorry for the belated response, but yes, it certainly is! And thank you for perfectly illustrating the disturbing way this war has been portrayed by a large slice of the media.

  199. 199.

    Kay

    @Eyeroller:

    It’s about how the county GOP organization is a manly, dominating force to be reckoned with, much like Daddy Trump!

    I swear to fucking God, now their reporters are openly stumping for Republicans.

  200. 200.

    Ruckus

    @wjca:

    I know about Taylor Swift from Balloon Juice. That is all.

    She seems nice, well respected, popular. More power to her. The vast majority of us have little exposure to more than 4th level knowledge of most or all people that make the news in any way, good or bad. I knew one of the girls in the Manson family, used to go to school with her and was in the same church as kids. In the end not all that helpful in life, other than to show what not to do. Which actually can be helpful if one doesn’t/didn’t get that info otherwise. I did, I thought she would have as well.

  201. 201.

    Geminid

    Regarding a Ceasefire in Gaza: people calling for one can use the same word but mean different things. Hamas and many advocates for Palestinians mean a withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza and a commitment by Israel not to resume attacks, followed by an exchange of its hostages for Israeli prisoners.

    Biden supports the ceasefire that CIA Director Burns, along with his Egyptian and Israeli counterparts, worked up with the Qatari PM in Paris two weeks ago. It would start with a six week phase in which 35 civilian hostages would be exchanged for several times that number of Israeli prisoners.

    This would be similar to the one-week ceasefire in December, but it would be stretched out in order to provide more humanitarian relief for Gazans and more time for negotiators to work out phases 2 and 3.

    Those phases are not yet exactly defined, but Phase 2 would involve exchanging the IDF soldiers Hamas holds for “higher value” Israeli prisoners. In Phase 3, Hamas would return the bodies of dead hostages in exchange for more prisoners. After Israel rescued two hostages last night, there are 134 Israelis or citizens of other nations in Hamas’s custody, but between a quarter and a half are thought to be dead.

    Qatar and Biden intend for the last phase to end in a permanent ceasefire with a diplomatic solution to the question of how Gaza is to be governed. That’s not a certainty though.

  203. 203.

    Ruckus

    @RaflW:

    Trump is indeed intimidated by their stardom.

    As well as their humanity, their vitality, their money, their reality, the life he never could/would have or will have, because he’s who he is and always has been. I don’t call him ShitForBrains without valid reason.

  204. 204.

    Eyeroller

    @Geminid: There’s that “swinging for the fences” that Kay alluded to. It’s not going to happen on the timescale we (and the Palestinians) need.

  205. 205.

    Jay

    @Kay:

    they didn’t “miss it”. They observed Hamas training for months for the assault.

    “They” believed that because they were omnipotent, that Hamas would never dare to attack.

  206. 206.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I think the last Siena poll showed Suozzi leading Pilip 48-44. A New Yorker I follow, Tom Watson, said he thought Suozzi would outperform that poll,, but Watson lives over in Westchester County.

    One wild card: tomorrow could be a snowy day.

  208. 208.

    Geminid

    @Eyeroller: I’m not sure what you mean here by “swinging for the fences.” The Qatari-brokered ceasefire seems like a realistic proposal to me. A delegation of Egyptian, UAE and Saudi officials were in Qatar over the weekend, trying to persuade Hamas officials to accept it. Reports are that Hamas’s civilian leadership is willing, but their militsry leadership in Gaza is holding out.

  209. 209.

    Soprano2

    @Betty Cracker: I heard an Israeli woman comment on the crying children in Gaza that all she sees are future terrorists who could kill her and her relatives and friends. So there’s some of that attitude among them.

  210. 210.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    They love dictators.

    They want to be them but they haven’t got a clue. Of course that argument can be easily made about any of them. They want a world that is 100% defined and adhered to because they so desperately want to be a part of it without any consequences. But consequences are a big part of life, one that cannot be run from. One can be run over by them but cannot run from them, eventually they will catch up with you. A better way is to see them and work within them. Life has a beginning, middle and end. The beginning one can do nothing about except live. The middle is where most consequences start building. The end is where they stop. Humans have created a concept where your consequences are dealt with, with the concept that if you follow the rules there won’t be any. But the reality is that there always will be, because we make decisions, we have to. Most of them are relatively insignificant. Some of them have costs that are more than humans can pay. Many are in the middle of that. People like SFB make decisions that cost others much, because they are assholes. And we all know what comes out of assholes…..

  211. 211.

    Geminid

    @Miss Bianca: I don’t know about voting by mail, but there is early voting and Republicans and Democrats urged their voters to cast ballots early with this storm in mind.

  212. 212.

    Nettoyeur

    @Suzanne:  Rin Dreher got divorced in order to become a Hungarian incel. It’s hard to meet women there if you don’t speak Hungarian.

  213. 213.

    Miss Bianca

    @Soprano2: Gosh. That’s harsh. But it’s also a self-fulfilling prophecy: Indifference to or even hostility towards the plight of suffering and terrorized children *will* likely lead to “future terrorists.”

    Oy. The human race does not breed for wisdom, that’s for sure.

  214. 214.

    Geminid

    @Jay: Israeli politicians and security officials believed that their air power would deter a major Hamas attack like the one carried out on October 7. But they did not ask, “What if Hamas chooses not to be deterred?”

    If they had they would have been much better prepared. Their problem wasn’t the surprise, it was the lack of preparation for an obvious threat.

  215. 215.

    Brachiator

    @Eyeroller:

    And of course “The Troubles” went on for decades. We can fervently hope that something will be settled–and there has to be a political component, somehow–but we need some short-term resolution ASAP.

    I also noted this earlier in the thread

    US Special Envoy George Mitchell helped shepherd the Good Friday Agreement, which brought a rough, but real peace to Northern Ireland.

    Who knows what might be possible in the Middle East. The hard part may be getting something started.

  217. 217.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Netanyahu has already rejected this, though, 4 days ago. There’s a story out today that the Biden Administration were furious that Netanyahu rejected it publicly while Blinken was in the midst of negotiations. He’s fucking stalling Geminid. There’s 3000 more dead civilians just since the last assurance that there would be a ceasefire.

  219. 219.

    Geminid

    @Eyeroller:

     

    @Geminid: Now that I’ve read Kay’s comment on “swinging for the fences,” I’ll say the Qatari proposal is not at all swinging for the fences. It’s “small ball,” trying to hit singles; the permanent ceasefire they are trying to bring about would be a double. They don’t intend to solve the larger Israeli/Palestinian conflict, just stop this war under circumstances that could lay the groundwork for a more comprehensive settlement.

  220. 220.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Netanyahu says all kinds of things,* but he is speaking for himself in furtherance of his own political survival.

    The PM does not control Israel’s major decisions in this war. Instead, under the emergency coalition agreement ratified by the Knesset on October 12, he shares authority with fellow War Cabinet members Gantz and Gallant. If and when Hamas accepts the Qatari formula, Israel’s government will be under intense pressure from inside and outside the country to accept it also.

    *Ed. One darkly humorous aspect of the ICJ hearing on the Gaza war was reported by the New York Times: in its defense, Israel’s attorneys entered over 30 declassified documents, mostly minutes of War Cabinet deliberations, showing that Netanyahu’s actions contradicted his public statements. As journalist Noga Tarnolposky observed, “Netanyahu lies as he breaths.”

  222. 222.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Besides the Sienna poll of NY 3rd CD voters, the last Emerson poll showed Suozzi leading Pilip 50-47% with 3% Undecided, Margin of Error ± 3.5%. Emerson’s January poll also showed Suozzi ahead by 3 points, 45-42%.

    Emerson found that more Democrats than Republicans intended to vote early, which could be good for Suozzi if tomorrow’s weather is bad.

  223. 223.

    Jay

    @Geminid:

    Security Officials claimed that they knew whom everybody in Hamas was, the locations of all the tunnels, etc, from decades of data, cell, video and drone monitoring of everything in Gaza.

    Apparently, they did not.

    Hubris.

  224. 224.

    Tony Jay

    @JWR:

    No worries. I’ve been busy eating delicious Lamb Pathia in Birmingham’s third oldest Indian restaurant.

    And yes, the Media coverage of this latest atrocity is exactly what I’d expect to see.

  227. 227.

    RevRick

    @Brachiator: Sorry for the slow reply, but I went for my 6000 steps, but the Jewish Midrash means dispute or argument, and there’s a story of an argument between a rabbi and a group of other rabbis about uncleanness, and the one rabbi declares that even if a voice from heaven says otherwise, he’ll stick to his position. At which point  laughter peels from heaven and a delighted voice proclaims, “My children have defeated me! My children have defeated me!”

  228. 228.

    RevRick

    @Jay: Which, given how the MSM raked Biden over the coals for the pullout, means her credit for that is worth zilch. All that is heard is the complaint.

  229. 229.

    JML

    @Brachiator: I think the hardest part is finding honest brokers that can actually advance a peace. Israel has the Netanyahu problem where he’s a maniac who is comfortable with genocide, is deeply divisive (at best) among Israelis, and now has a failure to defend the nation against this attack hanging over him. So he’s a garbage fire for any peace process, since he thinks if he can wipe out enough of gaza and hamas that he can rehab his political career, and possibly make people forget that he enable hamas for years because they were a useful threat to frighten  his own people with so push for the kind of lunacy he favors. And since he’s been in charge, functionally for long…who is established in Israel that has the standing and respect? (and sadly, there is a history of assassination for leaders who have tried: Rabin comes to mind)

    The other side of the coin is also problematic, and something a lot of pro-Palestinian voices in the US and other places outside of the Middle East tend to ignore: who actually can speak for the Palestinian people? The Palestinian Authority has been deeply eroded (thanks again, Bibi you slimebag), Hamas is a terrorist group that believes in genocide as much as anyone…so even if you could start hammering out an agreement like the Good Friday Accords, who negotiates for Palestine and can gain any kind of acceptance?

    In Northern Ireland you at least had players you could bring to the table. In terms of a larger peace, I just don’t know who can develop it. Maybe the only option right now is a hope that a tenuous cease-fire can lead to a longer one that might give time for Israel to send Netanyahu packing and some smaller steps to begin?

  230. 230.

    RevRick

    @Sister Golden Bear: They worship a schizophrenic god, who is once bloodthirsty, is now conditionally forgiving, but will revert to bloodthirsty ways. And, yes, that means folks are on the outs, just because they aren’t white males.

  231. 231.

    Jay

    @RevRick:

    President Joe Biden, and his teams, given the givens, did a damn good job with the Afghanistan Withdrawal. Kay does not often give approval as she holds the Administration to higher expectations, but with the Withdrawal, she did.

    Has President Joe Biden ever gotten approval from the MSM? On anything? Aside from a few journalists we know, the best he has ever gotten is damned faint praise.

    President Joe Biden could solve world hunger and the MSM would blame him for creating a possible obesity crisis.

  232. 232.

    Tony Jay

    @Tony Jay:

    Oh, and as an ETA on this latest newnewlabour corporate franchise opportunity fuck-up, after a whole day of furious hypocrisying by the likes of shitcreep ‘Pat the Purger’ McFadden and rabid hatepeddler Mike ‘Your shoes are antisemitic’ Katz, the realisation has sunk in that their chums in the national Media weren’t actually going to cover for them as they have so often before.

    So they’ve belatedly announced that they won’t, actually, be campaigning for the Rochdale candidate and should he win the seat in the Election (looking dicey now) he will have the whip removed. I’m sure it’s all bullshit, and they’re just hoping everyone forgets about it so they can surreptitiously help find his ‘independent’ campaign and then forgive him at lightspeed should it turn out they need his vote, but the damage is done.

    I’ve been saying for years that the News Media that did so much to help the newnewlabour backstabbers smear and sabotage Corbyn’s leadership would turn on them as soon as an election was in the offing, and when you’ve got the FTFGuardian frontpaging this story and suddenly remembering that the Forde Report exists, I’d say that balletic 180 is definitely in the offing.

    Again, tiny violins. Fuckers.

  233. 233.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty Cracker:

    If [GW Bush] were a regular person instead of the scion of a politically powerful family, he would have probably been besieged by minor league scammers all his life.

    LOL.  Never change, Betty.

  235. 235.

    sab

    @Kay: Hours late here. It would take a lot of nerve/guts/courage to stomp off in a huff in Russia when Putini disses you, and I assume Carlson has none.

  236. 236.

    PJ

    @Brachiator: The peace in Northern Ireland was possible only because the hard liners on both sides knew that their side would not prevail through violence.  They’d been going at for more than 20 years, and nothing had changed except a mounting pile of bodies and lives destroyed.

    You had to get buy-in from the the major hard liners, otherwise any deal would be a dead letter.  And it would be up to the hard liners to make sure nobody who was against the deal stepped out of line to start killing again.

    The hard liners in Israel/Palestine are Hamas, Hezbollah, and Likud and those even further right.  I just don’t see any of those players thinking that violence won’t continue to work for them.  It’s the main thing that gives them legitimacy, and power.  What would make them hammer out any long term peace deal?

    You could make a deal with moderates on both sides, but how would they enforce it, without imprisoning or killing large numbers of their own constituents?

  237. 237.

    Jay

    @PJ:

    and it really didn’t stop. The hardliner’s splintered, like the Peoples Front for Judea, with smaller groups trying to carry on “The War”, and still are today.

  239. 239.

    Brachiator

    @PJ:

    The hard liners in Israel/Palestine are Hamas, Hezbollah, and Likud and those even further right.  I just don’t see any of those players thinking that violence won’t continue to work for them.

    I’m not seeing that the violence is working for anyone, and it’s certainly not working for innocent Palestinians.

    In Northern Ireland, there still seems to be an undercurrent of anger among some of the people and the political leaders. And you have some Loyalists who don’t like the Good Friday Agreement, the Windsor Framework or the agreement to resume the shared government. And yet a rough peace is still holding. For now.

    There are tremendous differences between the two regions, but also similarities. And maybe somewhere there is the possibility of something better.

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