Bharat Ramamurti is launching a recurring feature that is right up my alley – Trump v. Biden, but not as a cage match or a horse race. You know, actual policies!
h/t prostratedragon
First up, taxes! If there’s interest, I will be happy to front page them as he puts them up. I have kept his photos of President Biden, and I spared us all the photos of the orange guy.
Since the media seems more focused on other topics, I’m launching a new recurring feature: Biden v. Trump on the actual issues — what they did as president and what they would try to do in a second term.
First up: taxes. 1/
— Bharat Ramamurti (@BharatRamamurti) February 12, 2024
Since the media seems more focused on other topics, I’m launching a new recurring feature: Biden v. Trump on the actual issues — what they did as president and what they would try to do in a second term.
First up: taxes. 1/
Trump’s chief economist claimed that the corporate tax cut would increase wages for the typical household by as much as $9000. That became one of the central GOP talking points as they tried to push the bill through Congress. 3/
That claim turned out to be completely false. A new study from nonpartisan experts found that almost all the corporate tax cut benefits went to high-income executives and shareholders, and the bottom 90% of workers got almost no benefit. 4/
The bill also didn’t generate a promised surge in business investment. Recent research found minimal impact on corporate investment. 5/
In addition to the corporate tax cut, the Trump tax bill made a variety of changes to individual taxes that delivered huge cuts to rich households. The richest 1% got a $50,000 annual tax cut, while most of the poorest households got nothing. 6/
The Trump tax bill also increased the deficit – hugely. By nearly $2 trillion, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. 6/
Biden took the took the opposite approach. He pushed for tax increases on the rich and large corporations to help offset the cost of investments in housing, child care affordability, clean energy production, and more. 7/
Despite narrow majorities in Congress, Biden succeeded in getting more revenue from large corporations. He enacted a new minimum tax on big corporations to ensure that no profitable corporation pays zero federal income taxes. 8/
Biden also passed a new tax on corporate stock buybacks, bringing in new corporate tax revenue and also potentially encouraging companies to dedicate earnings to investment rather than buybacks. 9/
washingtonpost.com/business/2023/…
Trump and his allies in Congress are also looking to extend a variety of individual tax cuts from the 2017 tax bill, which would deliver an average tax cut of $70,000 a year to a family making $3.7 million annually. 11/
While Trump would seek to extend and expand tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefit large corporations and the wealthy, Biden is looking to raise even more revenue from those groups, including with a new minimum tax on billionaires. 12/
Meanwhile, Biden has been clear that he will not support any tax increase on anyone making under $400,000 and has sought to extend and expand tax cuts for middle-class parents with younger kids. 13/
Those are the concrete stakes of the 2024 election on tax policy. The election results will likely mean trillions of dollars in difference in tax policy alone. The candidates have been clear about their intentions.
Up next week on Biden v. Trump on the issues: higher education.
Alison Rose
I would definitely be interested in seeing more of these. Someone actually looking at policies and data — it’s a balm for the soul.
NotMax
Preaching to the choir.
Not that there’s inherently anything wrong with that.
WaterGirl
Unrelated PSA: Raffle tickets available until 5pm Eastern on Wed 2/14.
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Send email to WaterGirl with your nym and your BJ Ukraine thermometer donation confirmation, and which raffle(s) you want tickets for.
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More details and quilt images in the Ukraine raffle post from yesterday.
Betty
Something the major national news media seem incapable of providing. Thanks for the information.
Baud
Ctrl + F: “Old”
No hits.
Definitely not NYT quality.
(Thanks. WG)
Baud
@NotMax:
It’s not to persuade us, but for us to circulate.
WaterGirl
Good idea to share on whatever social media you’re on. ThreadReader link is included up top.
edit: I see that Baud and I had the same thought.
Xavier
Corporate cuts are permanent, individual cuts expire. Republican policy has been to shift the tax burden from capital to labor for 50 years now.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I often wonder how much we (Dems) help promote their anti-Biden themes by complaining about them, and just referencing them.
catclub
well of course higher education would be up.
also, should students or teachers be higher?
lowtechcyclist
Well, he sure killed his chances of ever having a FTFNYT or WaPo job!
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Hey, if he gets enough traffic and acknowledgement for this series, maybe it will inspire the NYT and Washington Post to do a little self-reflection.
Narrator: hahahaha
lowtechcyclist
@catclub:
Students were getting high back in my day, so no reason students nowadays shouldn’t get high as well.
But the teachers should get higher in order to be able to cope with them.
japa21
What a concept. Let’s look at facts.
Of course, this isn’t to convince us but it gives us information to use in the real world, because people aren’t going to hear about these things from the media.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Tough call. It’s hard to mock and criticize the media with referencing what they’re doing. You can delete my comment if you’d like. I won’t be offended.
OzarkHillbilly
Heh, I was gonna post this in a comment about a half hour ago but I figured a front pager would get to it soon enough. Right I was.
eta, you guys all know this is fake news, right? Right???
NotMax
@Baud
In real life, all I circulate is cash. :)
The diameter of my circle of acquaintances dos not stretch as widely as it once did but within it I cannot come up with a single person who by any stretch of the imagination, in any conceivable universe, voted for or otherwise supports Dolt 45.
Alison Rose
@japa21: It’s also helpful if you have someone in your circles who is blathering inaccuracies. You’ve got receipts in one handy spot to show them. Now, would MAGA types listen to a brown dude who went to Harvard and Yale and worked for Elizabeth Warren? Likely not. But still.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Maybe the key is to use the “truth sandwich” approach: when you’re going to reference a false statement, open by explaining the truth, only then bring up the falsehood, then close by summarizing the truth. This is protection against your debunking primarily promoting the false statement.
Alison Rose
@Matt McIrvin: Not gonna look up “truth sandwich” on Urban Dictionary.
prostratedragon
Thanks, WG.
rikyrah
CLAP CLAP CLAP
I am going to enjoy this series, because we need to spread the word.
NotMax
@Alison Rose
Now semi-craving a prosperity sandwich.
;)
Brachiator
I like this stuff. I think that you have to keep it simple and focused. For example, this Robert Reich video.
prostratedragon
NotMax@2: My brain presented me with some Randall Thompson when I saw it.
rikyrah
Fix Media Now (by the Media and Democracy Project) (@FixMediaNow) posted at 11:50 AM on Tue, Feb 13, 2024:![]()
TIMELINE
A
The @nytimes continues to dangerously fail to inform Americans.
Americans’ security is in jeopardy with a collapse of NATO.
Most Americans do not understand what @NATO is and why Trump’s threats matter.
1/n
@MarkJacob16 @JeffSharlet @mehdirhasan
Fix Media Now (by the Media and Democracy Project) (@FixMediaNow) posted at 7:52 AM on Sun, Feb 11, 2024:![]()
@nytimes is a $7B *media company*. It no longer prioritizes a role in defense of democracy or the Fourth Estate. This NEEDS to change.
A
The leader of the GOP is waging war on democracy &is a threat to the world.
1/n
@JeffSharlet @ruthbenghiat @TDucklo @MarkJacob16 @mehdirhasan https://t.co/iqnOraEwWw
(https://x.com/FixMediaNow/status/1756677540532334920?t=pfmILg4xpKAi1FE9PKVviw&s=03)
Old School
But… but… I’ll want the tax breaks when I’m a billionaire.
rikyrah
This is crazy!
Victoria (@victoriaslog) posted at 5:02 PM on Mon, Feb 12, 2024:
Russia continues to promote North Korea as a tourist destination, with plans to send Russian schoolchildren on vacation to North Korean camps and build tourism bases for Russian people.
I really hope that North Korea becomes their preferred destination and that there will be… https://t.co/vL7ll7RFlK
(https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1757178400391798891?t=2dWU5bi4GctCfp6BHyaBxw&s=03)
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
The one thing that gets me are people (maybe libs, maybe not) who try to parody right wing idiocy simply by talking or acting exactly like them. Mimicry is not parody, and that’s one thing I think does more harm than good.
Alison Rose
@rikyrah: Man, imagine the choice between “stay in russia” or “visit North Korea”.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Right.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: A LOT
rikyrah
TELL IT, 46!
Acyn (@Acyn) posted at 1:22 PM on Tue, Feb 13, 2024:
Biden: Trump said if an ally didn’t spend enough on defense, he would encourage Russia to ‘do whatever the hell they want.’ The whole world heard it. No other president in our history has ever bowed down to a Russian dictator. I never will. For god’s sake, it’s dumb. https://t.co/MqzjoQ4URU
(https://x.com/Acyn/status/1757485449000452481?t=xil_gvLuoEX-i2-1SeMecA&s=03)
rikyrah
R.S. Martin (@RSMwriter) posted at 10:42 PM on Mon, Feb 12, 2024:
Apparently Jon Stewart, who has no existential stake in this year’s election–he’s rich enough not to care–has decided to minimize the threat Donald Trump poses to this country and the world by indulging his aesthetic pique about Biden’s age. Disgraceful.
(https://x.com/RSMwriter/status/1757263878591856854?s=03)
NotMax
@rikyrah
“Let them eat grass.”
//
Alison Rose
Good video from LegalEagle on Trump and the immunity question.
This made me laugh:
Tony Jay
Oh dear me.
The internationally acclaimed Lilliputian String Quartet could be receiving a flurry of new bookings this week as Keir the Peer and his spitechoked newnewlabour corporate opportunity franchise (formerly known as the UK Labour Party) have had to cut ties with another of their hand-picked Parliamentaty candidates due to accusations of antisemitism.
There will now be an intermission to allow for absolute buckets of bitter, gleeful laughter.
Yesterday it was Rochdale, where Azhar Ali, the loyalist candidate imposed against the wishes of local members, was revealed by the hard-right Daily Mail to have given a speech referencing the pretty well evidenced ‘conspiracy theory’ that Israel had a lot of warnings that Hamas was about to launch an attack, but went on to opine that Netanyahu allowed it to happen to get him out of a political pickle. not antisemitic in any honestly understood meaning of the word, but absolutely grounds for immediate burning at the stake in Starmer’s neutered cult. The FTFGuardian (along with the rest of the Media) put their thumbs on the scales by editing the quote to read Israel allowed it to happen (because The Narrative) and we were back in 2017 again.
The stalwarts of the Labour Right tried hard to play the hard-nosed hypocrite with NFLTG card by standing by their man, using all of the same lines that they were only too happy to denounce as “Not enough!” and “Not an excuse!” back when they were working with the Tories and the pro-Israel Lobby to smear the previous leadership and more recently to suspend and expel centre-left members and candidates by the hundred. They’d vetted their guy, after all. He’d proven his anti-Lefty credentials, what could possibly go wro… oh.. there’s another leaked tape of Ali from the same meeting? This time opining that “people in the media from certain Jewish quarters” were behind the suspension of another Labour MP? Shit! That’s worse because it’s true!! Shoot him into space! Unclean!
Today it’s Graham Jones, another loyal Blairite who was supposed to be campaigning to take back the Hyndburn seat he’d lost in 2019. He’d been at the same meeting as Ali, where they were actually trying to pacify councillors who were threatening to quit the party over Starmer’s anti-Palestinian policy, and been recorded saying “I’m sure when [world leaders] go home, like me, pardon my French [they say] ‘fucking Israel’ again” and then that British people who volunteer for the IDF (of any other nation’s army) should go to jail. This time the Plastic Peer had his marching orders to hand and immediately suspended the luckless Jones.
Now, I have literally zero sympathy for either of these fucksticks. Both of them are Labour Right gobshites looking to profit from Starmer’s dictatorial war on Party democracy, and Jones in particular was one of the vapid c#€#s who flounced off the Shadow front-bench in the 2015 ‘chicken coup’ that firstly saw the Party membership unceremoniously tell them to fuck off with their posturing by re-electing Corbyn and secondly the cabal of corporate-owned anal stents around Starmer decide there and then to end the membership’s role in choosing their own leaders. They can both die in a fire while wrapped in plastic kindling for all I care.
But let’s be clear. This is exactly what I’ve been saying would happen for years now. The Labour Right sold their souls to the pro-Tory media and the pro-Israel Lobby in return for an issue they could use to destroy Corbyn’s reputation as an honest and caring anti-racist warrior. They signed up to a twisted definition of antisemitism that basically takes any derogatory references to Israel or its actions off the table and handed veto power over what does and doesn’t class as antisemitism to a bunch of extremist radicals with deep links to the Tory Party, while at the same time defining the entire raisin d’etre of Starmer’s leadership as zero tolerance of antisemitism.
That was all fine and dandy while they were waging their factional war against the Labour Left and making the Party safe for corporate donors, but there’s an election coming up soon, and the Tories need all the help they can get. So now the weapon they helped aim at the Left is being turned around to pick off Labour Rightists who just so happen to be of the wrong religion or have links to the wrong Middle Eastern countries. And it won’t stop there.
These are warning shots. Testing out newnewlabour’s defences and finding them sadly wanting. We can look forward to a media campaign of scorched earth purity testing aimed at ‘proving’ that all of Starmer’s claims to have triumphed over antisemitism are just bullshit and hammering wedges into the Party’s deep factional divides (the ones Starmer’s faction have deepened and put barbed wire and mines around) by exposing how all he’s really been doing is instituting a reign of terror against the centre-left while letting malcontents in his own faction off with no vetting or supervision.
And what can newnewlabour do or say about any of it? Nothing at all. They handed their nuts over to the creeps who are now going to crush them, and they did it with a self-satisfied smirk. They were warned, repeatedly, but they were too delusionally convinced of their own savvy brilliance to listen, and now they’re going to burn for it. And the only thing that’s certain is that they’re so balls-deep in factional resentment that they’ll still blame the Left for it.
Play louder, tiny Lilliputian violins! Play all the songs!
p.a.
@rikyrah: “Comedy Central is an American teen-&-adult-oriented basic cable channel owned by Paramount Global through its network division’s MTV Entertainment Group unit…”
Stewart is just another corporate media shill, focusing on irrelevancies when our democracy is at stake. For ratings.
NotMax
@Tony Jay
Not “It’s a Small World,” pretty please?
rikyrah
Kenny has dropped another video :)
2RawTooReal (@2RawTooReal) posted at 1:34 PM on Tue, Feb 13, 2024:![]()
on Jon Stewart! It’s funny how he didnt have a problem with age when it came to Bernie sanders who’s even OLDER than President Biden. How can you say a 81-year-old man can’t run this country when Biden is 81 & running it very well. https://t.co/fGmiFAoEA7
I’m calling Bull
(https://x.com/2RawTooReal/status/1757488558057594915?t=SAJ_boLkIDvI1Z-J3UC8og&s=03)
mrmoshpotato
Policies?! Policies about horse racing cage matches?
Good to see someone going “Fuck you and your horses, mainstream assclowns! Let’s compare shit that actually fucking matters! Also, fuck you all again!”
Bravo, and thank you to Mr. Ramamurti!
MisterForkbeard
@rikyrah: Stewart hasn’t ever wanted to really go after Republicans – some of it is that he’s a comedian and tries to appeal to both sides, but he also has projects where he can’t afford to piss off Republicans (like 9/11 first responder support)
So he went after Biden’s age, talked about how bad Trump was but insisted that you should investigate Biden more because of how bad Trump was, and informed everyone that even if Trump won America would be fine and democracy would be totally cool
It’s pretty normal John Stewart
Baud
@MisterForkbeard:
He went after W pretty hard. I think that’s how he endeared himself to liberals.
Alison Rose
@rikyrah: Damn, that was satisfying.
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah: I again thank those of you who let us know him being back was both siderist crap – not that he’s been the only one. I didn’t waste my time.
rikyrah
The GOP’s Next Target? Prenatal Tests
The cruelty is the point
JESSICA VALENTI
FEB 13
For months, I’ve been tracking the anti-abortion movement’s quiet campaign to force women to carry nonviable pregnancies to term. Their plan includes changing legislation and medical guidelines, forcing doctors to lie to women about their pregnancies, and requiring that women meet with anti-abortion “counselors” before ending a doomed pregnancy.
These days, though, I’m keeping a close eye on another part of that broader strategy: attacks on prenatal testing. And this piece from Associated Press is a good reminder of why, exactly, conservatives are going after women’s ability to find out as much as possible about their pregnancies.
The AP piece looks at how important prenatal testing has become in post-Roe America, and how women—especially those in states with bans—are increasingly relying on early testing. Doctors say more and more patients are asking for early ultrasounds and more genetic screenings; the hope, obviously, is to catch any issues as quickly as possible.
The article gets into the various kinds of prenatal testing and ultrasounds that patients receive—and the massive problem of timing. Many of these tests aren’t done until after some states’ legal limit for abortion care. With ultrasounds, for example, you can’t see details of the fetus until a certain, later, point in pregnancy. Still, patients are asking for those ultrasounds at 10 to 13 weeks so they can have abortions under the wire if necessary.
The other issue is that genetic testing results can sometimes take weeks to come back—that’s time that patients don’t have when they live in a state with an abortion ban. North Carolina OBGYN Dr. Clayton Alfonso said, “More people are trying to find these things out earlier to try to fit within the confines of laws that in my mind don’t have a place in medical practice.”
The anti-abortion movement knew that all of this would happen after Roe was overturned—they knew that women would be desperate to get prenatal tests, and that the timing would be a big issue. That’s why prenatal testing is such a huge part of their campaign.
………………….
The anti-abortion movement knew that all of this would happen after Roe was overturned—they knew that women would be desperate to get prenatal tests, and that the timing would be a big issue. That’s why prenatal testing is such a huge part of their campaign.
……………..
In addition to all of these truly horrific policies, Republicans are also going to be pushing the FDA to reconsider the approval of some of prenatal tests. Mark my words. In the same way that they’ve been going after the FDA to repeal mifepristone approval, they are absolutely going to target prenatal tests.
Alison Rose
@Baud: I will admit…his Bush laugh did always make me giggle.
NotMax
@MisterForkbeard
I neither watched nor paid a scintilla of attention to Stewart during his past media life and see no reason not to continue that stance.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: His whole thing was that he was pointing out absurdity, but he also didn’t really boost democrats, either.
@NotMax: Stewart’s very good in a vacuum. It’s theoretically good that you have someone who points out that one side is engaging in arson and that the other side isn’t perfect either because they jaywalk. That’s a great academic exercise. It’s also awful on the national stage when you start equating arsonists and jaywalkers.
Sometimes he’s good. But you can’t trust him because he does too much false equivalent. John Oliver is much better.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard:
I don’t know how much you can expect a comedian to “boost” us specifically.
NotMax
@Baud
At least he’s not dating an NFL player.
//
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I wouldn’t, if he wasn’t presenting himself as a semi-serious straight shooter who just makes his points through comedy.
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah:
@Alison Rose: Yeah Kenny! Well said!
Thanks for posting this.
WaterGirl
@Baud: oh, no, your comment isn’t worth deleting. Plus it would be like salt in the ocean anyway but thanks.
Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
Next up, refraining from use of rethuglican framing. Follow the lead of Catherine Ramplell in today’s WaPo.
“The surge in immigration is a $7 trillion gift to the economy” (gift link)
Tony Jay
@NotMax:
I hate these people, but I’m not an absolute bastard.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Not sure how I should take that.
Alison Rose
@Baud: LOLOL
WaterGirl
@Baud:
sorry, that was my short hand. I’m at the vet. My comment was not directed to you in particular.
Joy in FL
I appreciate this post. I would appreciate having you post them as Bhart Ramamurti makes them.
I also really appreciate not seeing any photos of the orange traitor who lost the 2020 election. Thank you for that : )
RevRick
Prior to the Trump tax “cuts” of 2017 I was able to itemize my state/local taxes and my charitable contributions, but the massive expansion of the Standard Deduction made that effort moot. What I (and everyone else) lost was the individual exemptions, which, when combined with my itemized deductions was greater than the new standard deduction. Voila, I got a tax increase.
Having long followed Paul Krugman, I knew that these tax cuts would never deliver as advertised, and it quickly became apparent, when there was no surge in business investments, that Krugman hit the bullseye on their bullshit.
bluefoot
@rikyrah:
I really hate this kind of crap from people like John Stewart. They have this huge platform and they not only normalize Trump, but they minimize the consequences of him getting elected AND mock those who care about outcomes.
Semi-related: Not that he cares, but I will never forgive Jimmy Fallon for contributing to normalizing Trump when he had Trump on his show ahead of the 2016 election.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
No worries. Hope all is ok and it’s just a checkup.
rikyrah
@RevRick:
1 out of every 4 dollars of our deficit is because of the 2017 GOP Tax Cut SCAM.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@RevRick: the cancellation of state and local tax deductions (SALT) was aimed directly at blue states, NY and CA in particular. It amounted to a tax increase for many people.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Xavier:
Tomato/tohmahto
rikyrah
David Frum (@davidfrum) posted at 6:00 AM on Tue, Feb 13, 2024:
Putin’s last hope is Speaker Mike Johnson.
(https://x.com/davidfrum/status/1757374257493926345?t=9-Bi5vXthveX8YhDbu10fA&s=03)
rikyrah
Kid Phantasm (@cbbruuno) posted at 8:03 AM on Tue, Feb 13, 2024:
I will say it for the thousandth time- every week Trump says or does something that would end everybody else’s political career and create a feeding frenzy in the press. The press has CHOSEN to not let him suffer any consequences.
(https://x.com/cbbruuno/status/1757405039063183417?t=BXRJktGuL_-lswgnSb2hqQ&s=03)
Old School
@MisterForkbeard:
For those who haven’t watched the show – which seems to be most of the people here – Jon specifically did not say that.
He said, “If your guy loses, bad things might happen. But the country is not over. And if your guy wins, the country is in no way saved.”
He then talked about how you need to work day in and day out on making things better.
“I’m not saying you don’t have to worry about who wins the election. You have to worry about every day before it and every day after – forever.
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: Interesting in that (1) forcing transvaginal ultrasounds as a prerequisite for abortion was one of their abortion-suppression tactics, before they could just ban them, and (2) the whole bizarre new tradition of the “gender reveal”, which seems to be mostly a red-America thing, is pretty much enabled by prenatal testing.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Is it red America, or are the destructive ones primarily red America?
zhena gogolia
@Old School: Except he is fucking wrong. If Trump wins, the country is over.
Brachiator
@Tony Jay:
What could Labour have done to counter this?
I’m just an American observer. But I see that elements of racism and antisemitism are embedded in all levels of British society. The Tories are particularly vile, and they are currently in power, but I also see that the media do everything they can to hypocritically look for and blame Labour and any leftist they can for antisemitism. These are the rules of the game and Labour can’t win.
And maybe Labour have sold out to the Establishment media, but it is also clear that this same media are scared shitless that the Tories will be wiped out by Labour in a general election.
JaySinWA
Can you hear me now?
Republicans are more likely to have hearing problems.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/02/09/hearing-loss-republicans/
Burying the lede, apparently they are more likely to commit suicide.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I stayed up to watch TDS because my wife wanted to watch. I went to bed fuming at John Stewart. Fucking bollocks!
mrmoshpotato
Impressive research. And thanks for front paging this with no orange pictures, WaterGirl.
RevRick
@rikyrah: It followed the same playbook as the Bush tax cuts, which only succeeded in draining the Treasury of revenue.
Reagan’s “supply side” tax cuts of 1981 exploded the deficit, too. But because the economy boomed after it recovered from the 1982 recession, which was deliberately engineered to halt inflation. The result was that his tax cuts got more credit than they deserved, and you can start to see in the graphs a yawning chasm growing between how the bottom 50% fared and how the top 1% did.
Supply side economics depends on the stupid belief that increased supply will create increased demand, any more than you can successfully push around a string.
What the Biden administration is doing is that the government driven increase in demand creates a virtuous cycle of growth.
Brachiator
@RevRick:
Yep. You explained it well. However, a lot of people, especially people who lived in states without state income taxes, got a moderate decrease in taxes. Plus, the increase in the standard deduction made tax preparation less burdensome for more people.
And since the individual tax changes expire in 2025, dealing with this or coming up with something new, will definitely be up for discussion.
Citizen Alan
@rikyrah: They’re not human. They really not.
Ksmiami
@JaySinWA: and this is bad because??? I mean Republicans are terminally stupid so if they drag themselves down before they wreck the country, my conscience is clear.
Bill Arnold
@RevRick:
Likewise. Thousands of dollars of tax increase, in my case. Trump and the GOP raised my Federal taxes, mostly because they insisted on (and boasted about) screwing middle class inhabitants of Blue States who had primary-residence mortgages.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RevRick:
Feature, not a bug. The problem is here we are 40 years later and we have a lot of people who still believe in this crap, on both sides of the proverbial aisle (The Normalization of Neoliberalism) despite no data in all these years to suggest it was designed to do anything but make sure that yawning chasm between the bottom 50% and the top 1% keeps growing.
RevRick
@Brachiator: Racism is deeply embedded in British society. After all, where do you think we got ours from? The whole Rudyard Kipling, Britain is a great civilizing force ideology, exemplified the contempt the British had for other peoples.
Baud
According to Reddit, Nikki Haley has come out as pro-NATO. A Republican Moderate!
cain
@rikyrah: WTF… I think that’s not going to be very popular with women. Ultrasounds are very common even GOP politicians have used them for their families.
I don’t think it will gain much traction. Equating it with the abortion fight is going to be somewhat of a stretch given its common use around the world.
Baud
I didn’t watch Stewart, but I guess it’ll be interesting to see how he follows up now that he’s covered the age thing.
Citizen Alan
@JaySinWA:
rikyrah
@Tony Jay:
Thank you for keeping us updated as to the happenings across the ocean.
RevRick
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Oh, yes, definitely a feature, not a bug. The Laffer curve was a laughable concept to begin with.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Baud: no wonder he’s only on once a week.
Tony Jay
@Brachiator:
There’s nothing at all newnewlabour can do about this. As I said, they handed this weapon over to a hostile media and the pro-Israeli lobby groups back when muddying up Corbyn was the only game in town. They were warned, repeatedly, that all they were doing was outsourcing candidate selection to extremist groups who traditionally supported the Tory Party but they did it anyway.
This is just the other shoe dropping. It’ll be a twin pronged assault. The openly pro-Tory media will assail newnewlabour for being Red Hitlers just like Corbyn, backed to the hilt by the same Jewish groups that savaged Corbyn, while the likes of the FTFGuardian will sorrowfully draw attention to the factional brutality that renders Muslim and black members (and voters) as second class when it comes to racism and suddenly notice how many leftwingers have been purged on spurious grounds.
The point will be to suppress the base Labour vote and drive wedges between Starmer’s Party and lots of the electorate it needs if it’s to win a majority. And it’ll work quite well, because most of what they’ll say is true.
And let’s be clear here. They did it to themselves. This is their shitshow through and through.
lowtechcyclist
@OzarkHillbilly:
No, no, no! You’ve got it all backwards. This is real news about fake facts!
Jeez, if you can’t master these basics, when we go one, we’ll go all except you! ;-)
cain
@Tony Jay: So looks like Torys will be continuing to hold govt, eh? Well, I suppose as Brexit continues to fuck people – there won’t be much choice on who to blame.
Tony Jay
@rikyrah:
Waving while we’re drowning.
Even with the Orange Pustule leaking all over your body politic, I’d much rather have your problems than ours.
Baud
@Tony Jay:
Are you expecting the election to be called early? When is the deadline? 2025?
ToesInTheSand57
@WaterGirl: Just donated to the raffle for both quilts. Thanks for the reminder.
Brachiator
@RevRick:
I think in some ways American racism developed in parallel with British bigotry.
During the Revolutionary War, for example, the British offered to free black people who fought for them. Not so, the Americans.
But it’s the contemporary hypocrisy that grinds my gears. Tories would claim that some Labour minister was an antisemite, but high Tory officials had no problem with looking down their noses at Biden for being Irish, or blasting Kamala Harris because she is Indian. This last seemed to be more of a problem than the fact that she is also black.
RevRick
@rikyrah: I think you meant the debt, not deficit. The deficit is our annual shortfall, the debt is the cumulative one.
But you remind me of how out-of-whack our conversation about these issues are.
How many tons of ink have been spilled kvelling about our federal deficits and debt, but nary a peep is uttered about our trade deficits and debt, which, from an economic standpoint, is far more important?
Kathleen
@bluefoot: As comedian Noel Casler (comedian) has pointed out, Trump is considered part of the NBC family and is championed by Mark Burnett, who wields a lot of power at NBC is responsible for creating the image of Trump as brilliant business man.
Tony Jay
@cain:
Oh, hell no. The Tories are despised across the board for their… well… their Toryness, and even though the polls are likely to tighten before any election it’s almost written in the wind that they’re going to lose millions of voters.
The only questions are whether newnewlabour manage to make themselves so repulsive that floating voters look elsewhere for their anti-Tory voting buzz, and whether that ends up with a narrower than it should be newnewlabour majority or even a hung Parliament with the Lib-Dems getting back to somewhere near their early 2000s high.
But the Tories are fucked.
Geminid
@Tony Jay: Well, I am sorry to hear this. I’m just glad Democrats have avoided that kind of intra-party stress, at least so far. This issue will play a big role in some primaries this Spring and Summer but not many, I think. Our House Caucus has real divisions on the matter, but I don’t think these are so deep as to be harmful in the medium or long run. It is a stressor on the Party level, but nothing like what you describe.
This war has definitely alienated some Democratic base voters though. I think most of them will come around eventually. But we have to get this war behind us for them to start coming around, so I’m hoping Bill Burns got some good work done in Cairo today.
Burns was to work on a ceasefire with his Egyptian and his Israeli counterparts as well as the Qatari Prime Minister. They worked up a draft two weeks ago in Paris and I think there is Hamas delegation in a different Cairo location to help with a final draft. The proposed ceasefire would not end the war, but the idea is to provide time to construct a durable one, and provide respite and help to Gazans in the meantime.
Baud
@Brachiator:
It’s easier to be racist against groups you actually interact with. Other peoples are more abstract.
gene108
@p.a.:
I think Stewart is a very cynical person regarding politics, who deep down believes that politics is a net negative on society.
And Stewart, Olbermann, and Maher got liberal attention because they were the few media figures who regularly pointed out how awful the Iraq war was and how absurd the media was in cheering for it.
He did some good once. He should know when to call it quits. He isn’t playing to his audience.
Baud
@Geminid:
How long? Not that I trust any of the players in the ME, but the longer the pause, the greater the inertia against picking up the fighting again.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@JaySinWA:
Maybe being surrounded by Republicans drives one to suicide.
Tony Jay
@Baud:
I think December this year is the absolute last point it can be held, but it all depends on who wins the push between Tories who want to time it with unfunded tax cuts in the late Spring/early Summer and other Tories who think they’re doomed anyway and would rather hang on for dear life until the last moment and hope that crappy Winter cold and wet keeps anyone but the Party bases at home.
Baud
@Tony Jay:
Earlier than I thought. Good luck.
RevRick
@Brachiator: Part of Brexit was its unstated appeal to the British working class based on xenophobia.
NotMax
@Baud
What makes you conclude he’s going to drop it?
Brachiator
@Tony Jay:
I asked how Labour might have avoided this. My guess is nothing, but I am not as knowledgeable about this as you are.
I saw clips of Corbyn trying to rise above false accusations of bigotry, only to be hit with baseless claims that he was pals with both antisemites and Irish terrorists. The media was relentless in this bullshit.
I keep seeing the media return to these tactics, just as they return to phone hacking and other invasions of privacy even when they lose in Court. This is what they do.
By the way, I also think that Starmer is just as bad as Corbyn in handling many of these attacks.
So, yeah Labour may have purged the wrong people, but nothing was ever going to make the media treat them fairly. Aside from ideological bona fides, they need people like Mick Lynch, who can think on their feet and shrug off the bullshit.
Baud
@NotMax:
I don’t know what he’ll do. But I can’t imagine even people who are not like us would be entertained by the age thing week after week.
Tony Jay
@Geminid:
I think so too (that most angry voters will come back to the Democrats at the ballot box) especially if the White House continues its vector away from rah-rah pro-Israel cheerleading and towards a recognition that Israel’s current government are fighting an illegal war against civilians.
It helps a lot that the voices who are most stridently “Fuck them! How dare they open their mouths to question Our Leaders just because some foreigners are dying” aren’t actually in charge of the Democratic Party or in charge of its political outreach.
Come November, the situation will be different, policies will have changed, and unless something horrific happens in the meantime, those votes will come home.
Tom Levenson
@RevRick: It was stated.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Yabbut that was a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
A baby born the day Dubya & Co. invaded Iraq will be able to drink alcohol legally in the U.S. next month.
Brachiator
@RevRick:
Oh, it was very plainly stated. The big lie was that immigrants were stealing jobs and depressing wages and that BREXIT would remedy all this.
NotMax
@lowtechcyclist
And not a moment too soon.
//
Jeffro
@JaySinWA: I saw that yesterday – thanks for posting/linking to it!
Shorter: GOP “governance” is no governance at all, and results in more disability & death.
NotMax
Posted this near the end of a moribund thread late last night. Bears repeating.
Synopsis of some interest: Conservatives Want Their Own Economy. Call it riling for dollars.
Baud
Just saw an ad on MSNBC for crooked dick syndrome.
WaterGirl
@RevRick: Huh. I thought that was probably all of Brexit, or close to it.
Geminid
@Baud: The plan as outlined two weeks ago was an initial 6 week phase, followed by two shorter two week phases that might end with a more permananent settlement of this war.
The first phase would be a stretched-out version of the December ceasefire, with one civilian Hamas hostage released per day in exchange for several Israeli prisoners. That would be for 35 days with a sixth week allowing for slippage and negotiation.
Phase 2 would involve Hamas’s IDF and healthy male civilian hostages being exchanged for higher value Israeli prisoners in accordance with agreed-to “keys.” Phase 3 would involve Hamas trading the remains of dead hostages. Hopefully a permanent ceasefire can be worked out by then, which will not be a simple process even if the ceasefire holds.
If today’s (and tonight’s probably) negotiations are successful, Hamas would probably give its assent in a day or so. The Israeli government would likely meet Saturday night to approve or disapprove it (last time the meetings started at 6 and ran until almost 3 a.m.
prostratedragon
A dive (yecch!) into TFG spending out of donor funds on lawyers:
Since $52 million is chump change to a multibillionaire, one might wonder why use money that’s exposed to public scrutiny on such things.
Baud
And the fossil fuel industry is running ads claiming Biden is going to ban cars.
Brachiator
@cain:
From what I get from some British observers, Sunak might call for a general election in March, after the new budget is released, or November.
Or the Tories could try a Hail Mary, dump Sunak and try to bring in another stooge as prime minister and try to hold onto power until 2025.
But it is really looking as though the British people are no longer buying Tory lies. And yet, the Tories are pushing more to the right in a desperate attempt to hang on.
Sunak actually has a modest win in apparently getting Northern Ireland politicians to return to power sharing, but the average person in England doesn’t give a shit.
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: Many Brits seem to be under the impression that while Americans are irredeemably racist they are above it all. They also think that the British Empire was a benevolent exercise. Niall Ferguson has made a career out of it. And I am sure he is not the only one.
Tony Jay
@Brachiator:
Can’t argue with you. Not really. The media in the UK are either actively pro-Tory because they agree with them or actively pro-Tory because they think they’ll sell more newspapers with Tories in power (looking at you, FTFGuardian).
BUT, and it’s a big old but, a Party that sticks together and offers hopeful policies can break through and win votes even without media backing. The SNP dominate Scottish politics even with the News media there hating them, Corbyn’s Labour reversed decades of vote slippage in 2017 to almost oust a triumphalist Tory Govt despite media hostility, and at the end of the day it was probably the open sabotage by the Labour Right that cost the Party victory.
Newnewlabour’s fatal vice is that it’s been waging war on its own Party membership while at the same time offering traditional and floating voters nothing – absolutely nothing – that distinguishes it from Cameron’s 2010 era Tories. Their entire shtick is Corbyn-slaying and banking on the Tories being so unpopular that people simply have to vote for them whether they like it or not.
But what if their former chums in the Media decide to tell the truth about them for a bit and make them unpopular too? What then?
I think we’re about to find out.
schrodingers_cat
@prostratedragon: Is that before or after he bans guns?
Baud
@Geminid:
That’s a good period of time. Hope it’ll be enough to deter more fighting. And maybe get rid of Bibi.
NotMax
FYI.
CarolPW
@Baud:
I thought Nixon was dead.
Geminid
@Baud: If this ceasefire comes off, Netanyahu will likely survive a couple more months at least as Prime Minister. Although, his allies Smotrich and Ben-Gvir threaten to bolt the coalition if the PM lets it through. That would be like cutting off their nose to spite their face because this will likely be the last government they are in ever, but they’re nuts. And the 12 MKs Gantz added to the government on October 12 could keep the government going anyway, at least long enough to get through the ceasefire.
Gantz’s party joined the government on an emergency basis and they get to decide when the emergency is over, so that is another variable. But they want this ceasefire, I think. They also want early elections and I think they will get them.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@schrodingers_cat:
I believe proper British labels for him are “twat” and “wanker”. I’d take it one step further “fucking twat” and “fucking wanker”.
NotMax
@comrade scotts agenda of rage
Oxymoron of the month.
:)
Tony Jay
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Stands. Applauds. Sits down. Chuckles.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
One of the dumbest things I ever read was the official report that concluded that the British were not racist, but that they just deeply believed in the class system.
But the British do have proud moments that they can point to. For example, during World War 2, when America tried to import Jim Crow laws onto English towns where US forces were stationed, the people refused to comply.
These are at best convenient lies. I find it ridiculous that anyone in the UK could have a problem with immigration from former colonies when it was the exploitation of those people and countries that provided everything that Britain needed to sustain itself.
I also am particularly appalled at stories I hear of white people in the UK refusing treatment by non-white doctors and nurses. This kind of crap is like a repeat of the foulest racism in Jim Crow America.
wjca
I find myself hoping that this means that they don’t get treated at all. Suffer and die, scum!
moonbat
@rikyrah: I need a cigarette after that! Thank you!
Gvg
@Baud: Mr hot car corvette and is going to ban cars? Yeah no. I would think Biden can show that is ridiculous.
Sally
@Baud: Ban his corvette?!! Never!
ED: I see everyone has noted this point and I’m a day late and a dollar short!