Taking away people’s right to make their own bodily decisions isn’t very smart.
Rage away…
by TaMara| 250 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Proud to Be A Democrat, Republican Stupidity, The War On Women, Women's Rights Are Human Rights
Taking away people’s right to make their own bodily decisions isn’t very smart.
Rage away…
Comments are closed.
Sister Golden Bear
I hope Dems start focusing on 1) the forced to bear your rapist’s child aspect â saw news there’s been 26,000+ such cases in Texas since they banned abortion, and 2) the health dangers posed by pregnancies gone wrong when abortion is no longer a treatment option. As Kay has said, forced birth laws really founder on the latter.
dr. luba
Is this about Arizona?
And, yes, abortion rights will be probably be on the ballot in November.
satby
@Sister Golden Bear: And a lot of those cases are minors who were raped by family members.
sab
@Sister Golden Bear: And those rapists could well demand visitation rights.
Sister Golden Bear
@sab: From what I remember, some of them have â and were granted visitation rights.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Sister Golden Bear: Not just visitation rights, BUT CUSTODY. Here’s an account from 2021 where the rapist was prosecuted, convicted, AND JAILED in Michigan for multiple sex crimes., but still received custody.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
I keep on waiting for any Democrat to just go on a Tapper, or any of the rest of those clowns and just say this:
” Please find 25 cases (rape, incest, life of the mother) in Red States where these bans are in place, where ABORTION HAS BEEN ALLOWED. Not 2500. Not 250. 25. When you can’t find the 25, please begin to tell the American women the truth – THAT THE GOP ALLOWS FOR NO EXCEPTIONS. So, stop with the bullshyt. There is no BOTH SIDES. Do your phucking job.”
JoyceH
Whatâs astonishing is that the SC and the GOP thought they could get away with this. That women would just forget we once had rights. Imagine – itâs 1915 and a Supreme Court and a bunch of state legislatures try to reinstate slavery.
sab
@rikyrah: Yeah. Ohio was going to have a ten year old go to term or die trying. A pregnant ten year old is the very definition of statutory (and probably actual) rape and risk to the mother. And now Indiana so legally harassing her Indiana doctor.
Pink Tie
I posted about having sought abortion care a few days ago, and I just CANNOT with this shit. It’s worse every day. The craziest to me is all of these men talking about their “position on abortion” when they don’t understand why women need it, when it usually happens, what the circumstances are, etc. or really anything about women’s lives, bodies, prospects, physical or mental heath. I mean… TFG is still out there claiming that abortion providers *execute* babies even after birth…? Who the fuck thinks that ever happens and where is the pushback on that utter bullshit? Killing a newborn? I suppose the obvious answer is that low-info voters might believe it, and the more cynical RW politicians and strategists know it isn’t true but let it fly. I pray that Americans are waking up and getting outraged at this.
rikyrah
@JoyceH:
we were still in the thick of Jim Crow, but, I understand the sentiment.
Baud
@JoyceH:
I actually can’t blame the right for testing the strength of liberal causes. We’ve failed the test often enough. But this is a major escalation.
RandomMonster
Remember, remember the 5th of Roe-vember…
Bupalos
@Sister Golden Bear: Come on now. There were like 30,000 TOTAL abortions reported in Texas in 2021.
We won’t do ourselves any favors engaging in that kind of game. Rights are rights. The number of forced birth rape babies could be zero and abortion would still be a fundamental right.
Bostondreams
@Cheryl from Maryland: apparently the judge that issued the order was not aware of the circumstances and rescinded it a month later. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/judge-rescinds-order-granting-rapist-joint-legal-custody-of-victims-child/
sure as heck doesnât excuse it tho
cain
@dr. luba: There is going to be OBGYN flight as well just like in Idaho. I think there is going to be some serious blowback once this law goes into effect in 14 days.
People are going to find out.
bbleh
@JoyceH: well, but you see, Original Intent, something something Founding Fathers something, so, well … [shrug]
ColoradoGuy
The parallels to slavery are very strong. This is about using heavily armed police, the statewide court system, and prison to threaten and coerce people. Worse, using all this power to impose someone else’s religion on members of the public.
It’s not “religious freedom”, it’s religious tyranny of the few on the many. It’s what many of our ancestors fled Europe trying to escape.
Dangerman
Roe your vote, not so gently, and I have a stream for Donald.
ETA: Eat, Drink, and do it Merrily.
narya
While it’s true that the rape, incest, and life/health of the mother cases are particularly dramatic (and horrifying in every aspect), it is also true that women should have the right to bodily autonomy. Some politician (who is at best unclear on conception, contraception, pregnancy, the risks of ANY pregnancy, and the economics of all of it) ought not have a right to decide whether a woman carries a pregnancy to term. Women get to decide. Full stop.
rikyrah
@ColoradoGuy:
the attempts to make laws preventing pregnant women from leaving the state , and GOP Attorneys General trying to get out of state medical records on women….is very
‘ Fugitive Slave Law’ -esque
narya
@rikyrah: exactly. It’s horrifying.
ChrisSherbak
@JoyceH: I don’t find it astonishing at all: they believe, and have always believed, that abortion is flat out murder and a person is created when an egg is fertilized. If you start there, and get the chance to enforce that rule (and bask in your righteousness that you are Doing The Right Thing) outlawing abortion is easy to justify. I have to think the “except for rape, incest and the life of the mother” stick in their craw every time it’s brought up. Because, for them, abortion = murder. Being a product of rape or incest is unfortunate, but does not justify killing an innocent.
The only question is how many people will vote the GOP OUT over the issue. Over tax breaks for the wealthy. Over gun rights. Over pwning “the libz.” Over cutting “welfare for freeloading it’s-never-whites.” I think it’s an easy call for many who believe “virtuous women never get abortions, so why do I care?” Over staying home “cuz there’s no difference between Dems and the GOP.” Let’s hope those numbers get to be a minority at voting time.
Brachiator
@Sister Golden Bear:
There are all kinds of ways to approach this. But the message should always be simple, clear, and direct.
Women and their partners should be free to make decisions about having children without interference from the government.
State governments are not doctors. They cannot make healthcare decisions for women.
Anti-choice people make a fetish of “saving” babies. They are fanatics who don’t care about rape.
These people are also often religious freaks. They are anti medicine, and all about prayer and miracles. So, even if there is a dangerous pregnancy, the anti abortion freaks want to leave it in God’s hands. They don’t care if the woman or the child dies.
gvg
@ChrisSherbak: Pro Womens rights people for years threw it in their faces that they were hypocrites and did not “really” believe in the rights of embryos because they allowed exceptions for rape, the life of the mother and incest. Now they have shown us that they do believe nonsense. I think maybe we were wrong and they really did believe, at least the ones in later years. But we may have contributed to the extreme position by telling them that made us think they didn’t mean it.
We should not assume they don’t really believe what they say even if it is logically nonsense, or WE think it would be politically unwise. They have shown us that women’s rights are nothing to them and that they don’t care about how medicine really works. I don’t think they believe the stories about good women almost dying because of a natural miscarriage. And they only care about women they think are “good”.
They don’t have the right to judge women.
Michael Bersin
A sample of my eclipse photos:
Total Solar Eclipse – Russellville, Arkansas – April 8, 2024
Dan B
@narya: Agree completely. Telling women that they are immoral ignores that there was a man involved. When men are jailed I’ll feel better.
Parfigliano
That 26,000 number seems suspect to me.
Baud
@Michael Bersin:
Those are nice.
gvg
@rikyrah: And no penalties for false reporting, no penalties or accounting for some over officious busybody who makes up all kinds of nonsense in their minds. When I was younger there were at least 2 occasions where someone spread a rumor, I was pregnant. I wasn’t. Wasn’t even seeing anyone those times. As near as I could figure out, certain people don’t believe other people sometimes have boring lives. Time cleared that up, but what would happen now? What about people who actively want to mess with you now like ex’s?
I also read about a man that couldn’t get a prescription he needed because the pharmacist knew it could be an abortifact. It had multiple other medical uses and had caution language don’t take it if you might be pregnant. He was a male! Not that is would be ok to deny a woman, but common sense has left the building.
These people are crazy and never consider likely results.
Torrey
@ChrisSherbak:
Friendly amendment. Much depends on who you mean by “they.” Evangelicals initially welcomed Roe, but were shifted by (to take one example) Jerry Falwell and other right-wingers who supported the Roman Catholic position, largely in order to gain political power.
(I don’t know anything about the history of Roman Catholic thinking on this topic, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it had changed over the centuries.)â
rikyrah
First Ohio, now Alabama?
What is this bullshyt?
Alabama secretary of state says Democratic convention too late to get Biden on ballot this fall
By
Alabama Secretary of State Wes Allen has notified the state and national Democratic parties that the scheduled date of the Democratic National Convention is a few days after the deadline for the party to put its nominees for president and vice president on the ballot for the general election in November.
Allen, who is a Republican, said state law requires parties to provide a certification of nomination for president and vice president no later than Aug. 15.
âIt has recently come to my attention that the Democratic National Convention is currently scheduled to convene on August 19, 2024, which is after the State of Alabamaâs statutory deadline for political parties to provide a certificate of nomination for President and Vice President,â Allen wrote in a letter to Randy Kelley, Chair of the Alabama Democratic Party. âIf this Office has not received a valid certificate of nomination from the Democratic Party following its convention by the statutory deadline, I will be unable to certify the names of the Democratic Partyâs candidates for President and Vice President for ballot preparation for the 2024 general election.â
The 82-day deadline has been in Alabamaâs election law since 1975, according to the Allenâs office.
The Democrats are expected to nominate President Joe Biden for a rematch with the presumed Republican nominee, Donald Trump
https://www.al.com/news/2024/04/alabama-secretary-of-state-says-democratic-convention-too-late-to-get-biden-on-ballot-this-fall.html
sab
@Brachiator: I respectfully disagree with the “womenÂ
and their partners” language, because back in my misspent youth as a fledgling lawyer I learned that marital rape is a not uncommon technique for bad husbands to stall or prevent a divorce.Baud
@rikyrah:
We know last conventions have been later, so they’ve waived it in the past.
sab
@rikyrah: Comity and courtesy and norms are out the window post Trumpism.
Frank LaRose in Ohio wanted to be back in the headlines, and has no concept that it makes him look like an obnoxious asshole. Being an obnoxious asshole got Trump to the White House.
Scout211
@rikyrah:
He sounds sincere.
/s
Citizen Alan
@ChrisSherbak:
I think that someone would have to be utterly deranged to think that. Moreover, the whole “frozen embryo = a person” idea is not only moronic, it is blasphemous! Because what they’re saying is that when a mortal doctor removes an egg from a woman, puts it into a petri dish, plucks out a single spermatozoa from a cup that some guy has jizzed into, and inserts it with a needle into the egg, that doctor has created a soul?!? One that will automatically go to heaven if it is terminated before implantation, gestation and birth?!?!Â
Boy, I can’t wait to get to heaven and see that the number of Christians who actually accepted Christ as their Savior is outnumbered 10,000 to 1 by barely visible blastocysts floating around Heaven on teeny-tiny angel wings
My own position, and I am willing to and often have gotten into shouting matches with anti-choice Christians about it, is that personhood begins when the baby is born and takes its first breath and the soul enters the body WHICH IS WHAT THE BIBLE FUCKING SAYS! Prior to that, a fetus is a potential human and nothing more. I am willing to concede that the state has an interest in the continued life of a viable fetus in the third trimester but THAT IS IT!
Fake Irishman
@Parfigliano:
Iâve seen similar numbers; I think that 26,000 might either be 2,600 if it were limited to Texas or for all of the states that put restrictions in when Roe fell. Not sure of the timeframe. (Still far too many)
Thatâs not a knock on Sister Golden Bear, typos and misdemeanors happen in this game of telephone on the Internet.
Frankensteinbeck
@gvg:
We like to think that humans are all rational and consistent, but what people believe is more complicated and murky. What anti-abortion activists believe is that women should be punished for having sex*. Their positions are consistent with that, but not with caring about the lives of babies or even actually reducing abortion. They are against maternity care and sexual education, for example.
However, it is incredibly easy to then pick up the belief that any abortion is murder, because it makes them feel super righteous unleashing their hate. It’s not contrary to their ‘punish women’ desire. Yes, they want women punished for being raped. The woman had sex.
So sure, they believe, but it’s a… convenient belief, tacked onto their actual motivation.
*Punishing women for sex and wanting women to exist as subservient broodmares is big chicken-and-egg energy.
Another Scott
@Michael Bersin: Very nice.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
sab
@Scout211: Numbers are hard, for some people.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
Spot on.
cain
@Citizen Alan:
Just say that you’ve created immaculate conception and that the next savior will simply be born this way. No miracle needed.
Hoodie
@ChrisSherbak: That may be true for some, but I think the core of their belief is more that they view procreation as some sort of sacred ritual and that anything resulting from such a ritual is by definition sacrosanct, not realizing that bringing a life into the world involves more than just joining egg to sperm. Conservatives are big on empty ritual, they think it has more meaning than reality. This is why they get so hung up on definitions of words, e.g., definitions of what “woman” means.  They feel more comfortable with literalism, as if that will protect them for the inevitable ambiguity that goes along with being human. Daddy will define everything for them and they’ll be ok, except that Daddy doesn’t really talk to them in any clear manner. So they just make shit up.
sab
@Michael Bersin: Those are nice.
My little pinpoint box was useless. My eclipse glasses wete too good.
So I missed the little burp by the sun on one side.
Which was all fine. I heard some of the birds go quiet, and the early morning ones get loud. I saw no stars but I did see a planet, and I saw 360° twilight, which I have never seen before.
Citizen Alan
@Frankensteinbeck: Like I keep saying, 100% of the “pro-life” movement can be summed up in four words: “Eve ate the Apple.”
wjca
It’s also true that anyone advocating for exceptions for rape or incest is admitting explicitly that anything they say about caring about the child is a lie. The child isn’t any different, just the mother’s circumstance. So they are really on about the woman, not the child at all.
Much as I dislike the “no exceptions!” people, at least they are consistent in their views. Which actually puts them a step up, morally, (from an extremely low base) from the people accepting exceptions
EDT gvg got there first. (But it’s still a hot button for me.)
dirge
And while youâre at it, go find 25 cases where an abortion would have been legal pre-Dobbs, was actually prevented by one of these bans, and Republicans will publicly and proudly say that was the right outcome, without lying about the circumstances. Â Youâd think theyâd be bragging about all the lives theyâve saved, and shoving baby pictures at every tv camera they can find, if those good outcomes existed anywhere outside of right wing fever dreams.
blindyone
I just want to say that every woman- every one of them- should be able to decide what she wants to do with her own body. If need be, in consultation with a medical professional. Iâm so, so tired of this merry-go-round we are on. Iâm exhausted by all of these discussions about rapes or miscarriages or genetic defects. Though I do understand the political necessity of crafting arguments based on the realities of our bodies and our lives. We shouldnât be excluded from the choice of what to do with our own bodies because weâre not crime victims or mature or slutty or whatever. Iâm old enough to remember when we thought we accomplished something with Roe. Here we go again. I was Pro Choice then. Iâm Pro Choice now. Rant over.
dirge
Imagine? Thatâs pretty much what happened.
catfishncod
@JoyceH: Iâm sorry, just what do you think Jim Crow was?
Granted â Jim Crow wasnât a full reimposition of chattel slavery; you couldnât be separated from your husband for cash. But he could be arrested for any number of malarkey reasons and the white community would perjure and conspire and terrorize until the official narrative was enforced. And then he would be âduly convictedâ and go off to a state-operated forced-labor camp.
The next time you contemplate how twisted âfreedomâ can be for rural red state folks, consider that they may never have actually experienced the real thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@ChrisSherbak: I donât think that most of them really believe that life actually begins at conception. Â I think they are all in on controlling people, especially women, and will say whatever they need to to get what they want. Â I am done giving them any benefit of a doubt (and have been for about 15 years).
wjca
Give the man credit for notifying the DNC that there is a potential problem. Rather than waiting until mid-August with at gotcha!
sab
@wjca: Bullshit. Women die in labor even when the fetus has no chance of survival. Ask Ireland.
Late term and partial birth abortions are always about the health of the mother. The fetus at that stage has no chance of survival. Roe v Wade protected the viable babies. Abortion doctors are not into killing babies. They are into saving women.
bbleh
I have NO respect for those who claim that they believe “life” begins at conception, and therefore that abortion of a viable fetus is murder, but who simultaneously denounce “welfare” and “handouts” like medical and food assistance to women and children and families, and spending on education and child nutrition and development, and and and. Â When their pious respect for “life” is confined to “unborn children,” they don’t respect life; they merely fetishize fetuses. Â Ptui.
Brachiator
@sab:
Point noted. I am obviously assuming happy families. Also, I am not assuming that a partner is always a man. What is the alternative? If you just say women, you are not always reflecting reality. Women don’t always make these decisions alone.
Anti choice people are not just taking away women’s rights. A couple may try to use IVF. Anti choice people would dictate what that couple could do with any embryos.
And in the bad old days, before Griswold v Connecticut, the presumption was that the state had an interest in making sure that men and women got married and had children.
I am old enough to remember when condoms were labeled “For the prevention of disease only.” The presumption was that it could be illegal for a man to use a condom to try to avoid a pregnancy.
The anti choice fanatics don’t only wish to oppress women.
That said, I just want to see all pro choice angles covered.
AM in NC
@Bupalos: Â I believe that number is the total number of pregnancies resulting from rape in the states that have outlawed abortion since Dobbs.
Not all women who get pregnant as a result of rape will chose to abort, but that’s 26,000 pregnancies where you’ve given the rape victim no choice about carrying their rapist’s child to term.
Mike in NC
And right on time along comes Marc Thiessen in the Washington Post today, congratulating Fat Bastard for making the “correct” decision on the abortion issue. Never forget that fixer Michael Cohen testified that one of his tasks was to arrange for abortions for the undocumented workers at Trump properties that were impregnated by that degenerate.
Dan B
@Frankensteinbeck: Punished for wearing revealing clothes that tempted the man.
sab
@Brachiator: I think the person with a uterus who is carrying the child should make the decision. She may (or may not)Â consult whomever she wants, but that should be her choice.
I use she/her because of the uterus thing, although I do realize that trans men do have babies. I am 70 years old. Give my old mind a break. It’s trying to keep up.
wjca
@sab:
I’m not at all clear on why you think I doubt that for an instant. All I was trying to say is that pushing for a ban with exceptions is proof that “preserving the child” isn’t the motivation.
Dorothy A. Winsor
WTF is any politician doing declaiming what any individual woman should have for health care? That’s for her and her doctor. Stay out of it.
Urza
@Fake Irishman: It was all the states combined. Though Texas was higher than any of the others and made up about half.
sab
@AM in NC: In my misspent youth as a divorce lawyer I had a client who discovered on her wedding night that she had married a monster. By the time she figured out a safe path to leave the state and escape him she was already pregnant. Abortion was legal then, but she was pro-life.
She and I both went to the final court proceeding thinking that he would show up and kill us both. He didn’t.
Nowadays with the internet she probably would not have the escape option. He could and would find her and kill her.
Tony Jay
@Mike in NC:
Thiessen is the secular equivalent of one of those ephemeral medieval auxiliary bishops who were always on call to bestow upon the local potentate a rootless and insubstantial form of words that sounded enough like divine sanction for their sins to fool the ignorant.
Whatever nonsense he trots out, itâs always about keeping him in gold and choirboys.
NotMax
@sab
Uterine-Americans.
;)
sab
@wjca: They are not consistent. They are just ignorant of biology. Early term abortions bans might be protecting the child, but late term abortion bans blocked under Roe were simply endangering the mother. Roe already protected the viable fetuses. Protecting unviable fetuses is just bad medicine.
PAM Dirac
@Fake Irishman:
No Sister Golden Bear got the results of the study correct. it was published in JAMA Internal Medicine. It is one study and a lot of assumptions were made but the estimate was 64K nationally and 26K in Texas alone.
Quote from Scientific American article
Baud
@PAM Dirac:
I think the assumption that some people make is that all of those pregnancies would have been terminated if Roe were still on the books. I’m not sure if there’s been an estimate of that.
w_seattle
@Citizen Alan: If I understand correctly, the explicit definition of ensoulment at conception started in the Catholic church from Vatican II in the 60s. This teaching was later adopted by various conservative protestant groups in sync with their political pro-life advocacy. I don’t care about finer theological points of any religion, but It does indeed seem crazy to base laws on them in any system short of a theocracy.
PAM Dirac
@Baud:
Yes lots of assumptions but their estimate that of the 64K pregnancies only 5.5K occurred in states where there was a rape exception in the law and 59K occurred in states where there was no rape exception suggests that the laws mattered a lot.
ETA: although it looks like the estimates are not scaled for population so it might be that there is a much higher population in the no rape exception states. Also note that 64K pregnancies in 2 years is a little under 1% of all births
cain
@Brachiator:
Don’t forget that stem cells was also something they wanted to control.
Hell, they have been free to branch out to anything – you could start working on liquor and drug laws.
The only thing they won’t control no matter how many fetuses are destroyed are guns. If a study came out saying that guns will kill a fetus – they’ll just have a sad.
TBone
I’m awaiting an adverse decision that affects the male right to privacy in this game of bodily autonomy snatch-away. One where politicians stand between men and their doctors, and corral them into certain, designated zones of “safety” (blue states).
 Ha. Ha. Fucking. Ha. The patriarchy can BITE MY ASS.
Pink Tie
@sab: 1000% – that language got my attention too.
Brachiator
@sab:
We don’t disagree. But the anti choice people would deny the woman the right to consult with anyone. And many people in relationships see themselves as a team, a couple, a family. The anti choice people seek to intrude into a family or partnership and to force them to yield their right to decide what is right for them.
In the case of IVF issues, and for example, surrogacy, the woman with the uterus may not be the one carrying the child, but the anti choice people would interfere and decide what happens to the embryos produced.
Jay
sab
@Brachiator: We are on the same page here. I was just pointing out unhealthier couple situations.
ETA Although surrogacy presents different complications.
TBone
@Jay: the AZ Attorney General came right out and stated she will NOT enforce this abortion ban.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/an-affront-to-freedom-arizona-attorney-general-slams-court-for-reviving-1864-abortion-ban-vows-not-to-enforce-draconian-law/ar-BB1llMLh
Dorothy A. Winsor
It’s no one else’s business!
Jay
@TBone:
“This” Attorney General.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Amen, sister!
TBone
@Jay: ??? I have no idea what you mean.
cain
@Jay: Yeah, exactly – it’s still on the books. That AG will absolutely get sued for not enforcing the law as well.
sab
I learned at my mother’s knee that first term pregnancies are just zygotes who really aren’t people yet.
Baud
@sab:
For the GOP, women aren’t people either.
zhena gogolia
Peter Higgs of the Higgs Boson died.
Jackie
Kari Lake then and now:
Her MAGA idolâs stance on letting abortions be state law is going to be tricky as she obviously disagrees with TIFG.
Heâs already lashed out at Lindsey and Pence for opposing him, yesterday.
Ruben Gallegos will take full advantage of Lakeâs flip flopping.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
A massive loss.
TBone
@cain: so what? She’s DOING something about it. More power to her.
Brachiator
@TBone:
Back in the Comstock Act Days, and prior to Griswold v Connecticut, a man could not legally buy condoms in some states, could not order contraception related material via mail, and could be liable for arrest if observed by some freaky neighbor committing “sodomy,” engaging in a sexual act with a woman not likely to result in pregnancy.
The anti choice fanatics are against IVF and would prevent couples in any combination of genders from using IVF to produce children.
We sometimes forget how bad the old days were with respect to reproductive rights.
Baud
@Jackie:
Completely consistent. She supported the law when it was unenforceable. Now that it has teeth, she opposes it.
You libs always cry hypocrisy.
sab
@Baud: Although their most serious grass roots worker bees are women. November could be interesting.
David đCaitlin Clarkđ Koch
Women drew an average of 19 million viewers with peak viewership hitting 24 million.
Men drew 15 million viewers.
âïžâïž
Matt McIrvin
@Baud:
So did they and Ohio keep the law on the books and do it this way as a reserve means of nullifying a major-party candidate if they felt it necessary?
Baud
@David đCaitlin Clarkđ Koch:
Very cool.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Ohio enacted special laws to accommodate then conventions. Don’t know how Alabama did it.
TBone
@Brachiator: even though those days were draconian, men suffering absolutely pales in comparison to what women have suffered, and will continue to endure for we don’t know how long. Not sure many men were declared witches and burned at the stake, for example. Thank you for pointing that out though, it’s not completely unappreciated!
Jay
@TBone:
the AZ AG is elected.
Until the Court ruling is overturned, by a Higher Court, the next AG can use the ruling, so can any elected County Prosecutors or Judges right now.
The AZ AG saying that they will not enforce the ruling, just means that the State will not prosecute, under this AG.
Baud
@TBone:
In the Baud! administration, they will be.
TBone
@Jay: at least she stood up. Right away. She’s saving lives by doing so.
TBone
@Baud: đ always lightening me up
Jackie
@Baud:
AND is running for office in a RED STATE!
sab
One of the most important and least mentonned tasks for newbies here is figuring out who the lawyers are. They argue ferociously, oblivious that they are hurting non- lawyers’ sensitive feelings.
Also too, they are often shamelessly cynical, just for laughs, shocking the rest of us, because cynicism is a necessary survival technique in their profession.
I haven’t been a lawyer for almost forty years, but I sympathize with them.
Baud
@sab:
They’re also devilishly handsome.
TBone
@sab: I worked for many, many attorneys. I had to give up constant cynicism before it turned into cancer. I choose optimism consciously because otherwise I’d be daid.
sab
@Baud: I bet you are.
dirge
Donât worry; Â theyâll get there, if theyâre not stopped here. Â Once theyâve found a place for everybody else, and put them all firmly in their place, theyâll get to work figuring out which of us are real men. Â Just listen to them; Â theyâre already talking about it. Â The inner circle must always be shrinking.
sab
@TBone: I touched a nerve here. Don’t get me started on accountants.
ETA Accountants are rarely cynical, but they are often morally wrong.
TBone
@dirge: exactly right. It’s coming and I can hear the gnashing of teeth coming like a jail on wheels.
Lyrebird
Agreed. I’m pretty sure you’ve already seen the Biden ad with the gal who nearly died in TX, so glad she agreed to be so public… I’m a cynic and a pragmatist. Let’s go with the stories that are most likely to move movable voters.
TBone
@sab: đ
Jay
@TBone:
Yup.
Almost Retired
@sab: Â âThe first thing we do, letâs pie all the lawyers.â Â – Balloon Juice Shakespeare.
japa21
@Baud: I heard that from OO and Steve in WTF
Brachiator
@TBone:
It’s not a competition. The point is that the anti choice fanatics would become the arbiters of reproduction. Women would bear the brunt of this, but men and trans people would be affected as well.
Witches weren’t burnt at the stake. They were hanged. And no fewer than six men were executed during the Salem Witch trials.
William Tyndale was burnt at the stake for producing an English translation of the Latin Bible. Is this close enough? The freaks and fanatics always get their fun in.
sab
@Almost Retired: I never pie lawyers. They are almost always interesting. Exception for Trump hired nitwits, but they don’t comment here.
TBone
@Almost Retired: yes, I am a nerd liberal arts English Lit major.
https://shakespearenerd.home.blog/2019/09/07/misunderstood-shakespeare-lets-kill-all-the-lawyers/
sab
Most of my favorite commenters are lawyers. We love the technical experts, but the lawyers keep the place afloat.
ETA And they always challenge idiots like me who wander in with unsourced random memories. Onmes and Baud blow me out of the water frequently. I think that is good for our credibility.
ETA My memories from my horrible legal practice years are diffetent. Those are real, and not just some stuff I remember reading online or offline.
TBone
Dick the Butcher đđ
Lyrebird
@Brachiator: Howdy! Another reason to not make something a competition imho is that what I most want is people’s VOTES, and if a man were to vote pro-choice for the most minor of suffering, or even just for being a decent person or caring about women, then that’s a WIN on my golf card.
Jackie
@Jackie: And Ruben Gallegos speaks!:
NutmegAgain
With all the attention courts are paying to pre-1899 laws, I do believe they are actually gunning to take away women’s right to vote. My mom was born before women could legally vote here in the US of A. It was not so long ago.
bbleh
@dirge: The inner circle must always be shrinking.
This indeed! Â See also the description of authoritarians as “relentless sociotropic boundary-maintainers.
@Brachiator: IIRC they were also pressed to death under heavy stones. Â Oh that Olde Massachusetts charm!
TBone
@NutmegAgain: good eye. They said old people shouldn’t vote a few days ago. Nursing home residence should be disqualifying because those folks only have so long to live, after all.
Jay
@TBone:
it was about seniors not being allowed to use their Care home ID’s to vote,……..
“because they were only going to live for maybe another 6 months”.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, Johnson – yet again – decides to delay sending the Mayorkas impeachment paperwork to the Senate.
I can hear the Latin pedants cracking their knuckles and waiting to jump in…
[ rofl ]
Cheers,
Scott.
TBone
@Jay: yup, I just remembered that part. Fuck, I hope the leopards eat All the faces!
Baud
@Another Scott:
Real alpha male energy.
Brachiator
@sab:
I used to think that newspaper people were cynical. But now that you mention it, I remember one lawyer in particular who could be a black hole of cynicism.
Interesting fellow, though. I recall him once talking about how he used to drive home drunk after work and getting stopped by police officers. He claimed that he would pull out his Bar card, show it to the cop and warn them not to fuck with him.
Don’t know if this was entirely true, but he was one of the hardest drinking people I’ve ever met. And he would drive home after hanging out with my group.
sab
@NutmegAgain: It is really hard to revoke a constitutional right, as hard as it is to establish one. But it is easy to nibble away on the edges (14th amendment, anyone? )
TBone
@Another Scott: Mike Lee is a fucking fascist’s fascist. I hope he suffers.
bbleh
@Another Scott: “To Boldly Not Go Where Everybody Knows We’re Going Anyway!”
Jackie
I â„ïž Nancy Smash!
I saw her on MJ this morning, and her dismissive tone of voice when talking about âWhatâs his nameâ â Â made me wish for a cigarette – and I donât smoke!
TBone
@Brachiator: I have oh so many stories…oh so many
Steve in the ATL
@japa21: and in my case itâs true!
sab
@Brachiator: I found law a really repellent profession full of people I loved and admired.
Trump has a magnet for the stupid ones. Mostly they are not stupid. And their professional ethics makes them be ambivalent. I still admire John Adams for defending the Boston Massacre soldiers when the British government wouldn’t
ETA : But then there is Steve in Wherever.
////
eversor
All of you fuckers want to keep Christianity and this is what you get. Anybody who is not anti Christian owns this. As much as Alito or Trump. If you are not out to get rid of Christianity you did this.
Congrats fuckers you own all of this. Each rape child and dead little girl is on the heads of those who are not anti Christian.
Take a bow Omnes and go rape a child. For Jesus!
And per Christianity women should not vote. Women must submit. That’s New Testament and Christ himself. If you want Christianity women do not get a say in anything, ever. They do as they are told. So if we are going to keep Christianity women can’t vote and wife beating is OK.
I think women should vote. But on the other hand if we are going to keep Christianity than no women should not vote. Let’s Christian this shit up. Men get all the decisions and wives submit, per Jesus!
Ya’ll want to keep this shit. Let’s have it for real. Bitches to your kitchens and if you mouth off rocks to the dome till death. Per Jesus. You want to keep this, you’re going to get it.
We are keeping Christianity ok then! Wives submit to your husbands, slaves submit to your master. No womens rights and slavery comes back. Jesus even demands this. So let’s do it!
Baud
@eversor:
Missed you on Easter, man.
Jackie
@TBone:
I donât know if this was from the same state, but nursing home photo IDs are banned for voting id đĄ
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I thought he was off to join the MAGAs. Isn’t that what he told us? What’s he doing here?
It would be more amusing if he did the “Brinks’ trucks!” shtick, at least.
sab
@bbleh: Well put.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I think he’s here on behalf of the MAGAs.
Kay
Our juvenile court people have been watching this because it’s unusual to charge a parent in these cases. Ultimately though we don’t think it means much in terms of precedent. These people were unusually egregious. They really were warned that this kid was drowning and their response was to get him a gun. I don’t think the parents of most school shooters contribute to the extent that these two did.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: When Betty’s around she always links to his comment announcing his defection.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I did that for a while as well, but I didn’t save the link. Query whether it was a real “defection” but it doesn’t really matter.
TBone
@Jackie: grrrrrr I almost couldn’t hear you through the troll stink. That’s another ridiculous part of their plan to cheat. Digby post from earlier about the scope of all the plans and planners:
https://digbysblog.net/2024/04/09/gird-yourself-for-nov-5/
sab
@Baud: Every blog needs its troll. That one is at least mostly pied. I toggle and check in occassionally, and am reminded why I pied.
Kay
10 years is about right too, IMO. They’ll be out in seven. US sentences are way too long. This one is reasonable.
Baud
@Kay:
It’s precedent of it makes some parents think about it.
karen marie
@Cheryl from Maryland:  Horrible. But who’s doing the writing over there? The article is a mess, with multiple duplications.
And that story is followed by one about the person who stole Ashley Biden’s diary and other belongings. It begins thusly:
What does the thief being a mother have to do with the cost of beans?
Using my googlefu, I am seeing that this is originally an Associated Press story. I can’t even. AP used to be a well-regarded journalistic endeavor. That ship has apparently sailed.
Baud
@sab:
I’m not a huge troll fan. The regular commenters are obnoxious enough for my taste.
sab
@Kay: Egregious is right. We had a seriously phucked up teenager here, kept him around for years after he should have been grown up and gone. I felt sorry for him. My husband, despite wanting to save his marriage, did not want to inflict that messed up kid on the world.
He is all grown up and lovely now.
But in his bad years we did not buy him a gun, and we did not skip out or cut short school counseling sessions. We welcomed them, knowing that they were as concerned as we were
ETA He was my stepson and my husband’s son.
TBone
@Baud: thank you (blushes)
teezyskeezy
@Baud: awwwww.
Old School
@zhena gogolia: There was also one a month or so back where he bragged about how proud he was to convince his nieces (?) to not vote for Democrats.
Princess
@Torrey: Indeed Catholic teaching on abortion has changed. The sign that the soul had entered the child was believed to be the quickening of the fetus â the moment it began to be felt moving in the womb. Before that abortion was okay. Some canonists allowed it even later for reasons of poverty. Things changed in the 1870s ties to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (of Mary by her mother) which was the first dogma to be declared as infallible. From that point on, and linked to it, life was taught as beginning at conception. Â It was also a product of greater knowledge about how pregnancy occurred.
Jay
@Jackie:
according to MagsHabs, one of TIFG’s Advisors asked him about what his position was on the 15 week abortion bill,
and TFIG absolutely lost it, screaming at them that “I all ready paid it” and throwing ketchup bottles at the wall,……
teezyskeezy
@sab: Just like the Dems need their Atrioses. Even if it’s an overly negative schtick, it’s a healthy corrective force. However, eversore is too too much. It makes people ignore criticism even more when someone comes across that nutty.
teezyskeezy
@eversor: Do you ever visit this site sober?
Another Scott
@teezyskeezy:
I did a search on his ‘nym once, and found this:
I’m kinda glad that it refers to something in a game (Warhammer 40k). Kinda.
:-/
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
wjca
It may not be a precedent as a matter of law. But it just might give some parents pause. One may hope.
Aaaaaand Baud got there first.
teezyskeezy
@Another Scott: Yeah, “kinda.” The implication could go either way….
bbleh
@Jay: wait, what? Â Ok very funny.
sab
Troll badmothing a troll
ETA : Sab had a comment but it couldn’t pass muster.
Sister Golden Bear
@Bupalos:
Absolutely agree. But… in a recent survey of Texas women:
Too many women don’t realize they will be affected by the abortion bans. As far as RoeVember, people are far more motivated when it personally affects them.
As far as numbers:
and a second study found:
Jackie
@TBone: Every electionâŠđĄ
Thank goodness for people like Marc Elias, who are fighting the courts in multiple states to keep and/or restore voting rights!
MagdaInBlack
Oh, how nice! I’m just in time for pastry. đ€
teezyskeezy
@sab: Oh hi.
Jackie
@Jay: đđđâŠ
âŠoh, I mean do you have a gift link for that? đđđ€
sab
@teezyskeezy: Feed me Seymour! Feed me!
dirge
Relentless indeed. Â Itâs not much of an in-group boundary if youâre not kicking people out. Â Besides, thatâs a bonding activity.
Iâve come to realize, having interacted with a lot of these groups in corporate settings, that a whole lot of behavior can be explained by very little. Â Once youâve got the axiomatic stuff â leader principle, boundary policing, etc. â the rest of the social structure is entailed as necessary functional adaptation, utilizing a limited behavioral repertoire. Â Astounding that it works, but it does.
Brachiator
@sab:
I know a number of people who went to law school, practiced law for a time, but then ended up doing something else entirely because something about the profession was not right for them.
While on vacation I had a conversation with someone who thought that lawyers should not work for obviously guilty clients. I noted that there have been people accused of crimes so vile that even their friends and family despise them and have abandoned them. And the state is expending a huge amount of resources to bury the accused, and the only thing standing between the accused and oblivion is their attorney. And what if the person is innocent? Without a competent defense, they have no hope.
Scout211
Caitlin Clark really brought the fans and all the teams reaped the benefits.
teezyskeezy
@sab: What’s weird is I *did* just make a reference to Little Shop here the other day. Was it to you, or is this a coincidental implication that I’m a troll looking to be fed? Genuinely curious.
sab
@Brachiator: I cannot remember why I had sarcasm tags in that comment because nothing in it was sarcastic. It was all heartfelt. I respect the practice of law but in the real world I found it personally vile. Just me being not tough enough.
TBone
@Jackie: đ
Sister Golden Bear
@ChrisSherbak:
Hence the need to highlight the
unintendedwholly foreseeable consequences of forcing women to die from ectopic pregnancies, Â forcing women to carry dead/non-viable fetuses to term, forcing women to risk death or never being able to get pregnant again from a high-risk pregnancy gone wrong â even for “virtuous” women. Men may not get it, but plenty of women know someone who’s had scary pregnancy complications.As Kay has said, this is where all-encompassing forced birth laws inevitably founder. The zealots won’t care â they’re fine with women dying in pregnancy, because Jeebus willed it â but plenty of non-zealots will realize there’s a problem.
And this doesn’t mean we need to forego the argument that women/pregnant people/people should have an inherent right to have control over their own bodies. It’s taking an abstract principle and showing in concrete terms why it matters.
sab
Steeplejack:
I am reading in bed (tomorrow is last day of tax prep, could be 12+ hours.)
Dobby the formerly demon cat is asleep beside me.
We have a new cat. She is a girl so Dobby is shy and wary. She being a girl cat is brazen and brave. Dobby likes her. She puts up with him. They are starting to be friends. Friendship between cats isn’t new to her, but it is a complete revelation to him. He didn’t know it was possible.
peter
@Another Scott: In Book 12 of Vergil’s Aeneid, the narrator looks back to Achilles who is described as Priami regnorum eversor, “the destroyer of Priam’s realms.” Eversor = one who destroys.
Apt name for a troll.
sab
@peter: Interesting and explanatory.
Also a bit more educated or polyglot than I had expected
ETA When my husband says when I fail in helping him at crosswords: what a waste of a good education.
teezyskeezy
@dirge: “Boundary policing.” That’s not a sociopathic corporate hierarchy thing. Right?
sab
Duplicate! Deleted!
Brachiator
@sab:
No problem. I didn’t read any sarcasm in your remarks. The daughter of a good friend hated practicing law and is much relieved doing something else.
Starfish
@sab: Mississippi forced birth on a raped 13 yo.
Jay
@teezyskeezy:
Boundary policing is a term that comes out of relationship therapy. IE, if you let someone cross your boundaries, with out push back, they will continue to do so.
In politics, it refers to pushing back when someone tries to expand the margins of what is acceptable, outwards.
Omnes Omnibus
@eversor: A bigot says what?
Starfish
@ChrisSherbak:
Every Sperm Is Sacred
sab
@Brachiator: I think I was trying to not be rude to Steve in Atl the management lawyer. John Adams and all.
Omnes Omnibus
@sab: Why?
Jay
BTW, I have the “Alton Brown’ed” babyback ribs marinating in their foil pouch,*
Montreal Steak Spice, brown sugar, chili paste, liquid smoke, Worstichstichisticshire sauce.
Later, into the oven at 270 for 2 hours, then into the fridge overnight.
Tomorrow, sauced, then under the broiler until the sauce is caramelized and the ribs are heated through.
*a pressure cooker can be used instead of a foil pouch and oven.
Will be served tomorrow with an Alton Brown’ed Baked Russet and steamed carrots.
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus:Â â
Yeah usually I am all for pie pie pie pie, but that swipe (at you) seemed over the top to me.
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Was I swiping at you? I didn’t mean to be.
ETA You are one of my blog heros
ETA I hope a just missed a joke.
Omnes Omnibus
@Lyrebird: Meh. Bigots gotta bigot. Trolls gotta troll. I just don’t want people to forget who he actually is when he plays reasonable “bro.”
Omnes Omnibus
@sab: No, I am wondering why anyone would not want to be rude to Steve in the WTF. It puzzles me.
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Why not to be rude to Steve? Just my southern girl upbringing kicking in. Bless his little management heart.
ETA But still, John Adams and all.
Not joking. Every case with two legitimate points of view deserves two legitimate lawyers.
Trump doesn’t have a legitimate point of view. Thugs not law on his side.
Management has a legitimate point of view. So does Labor.
bbleh
@dirge:Â @teezyskeezy:Â @Jay: in this case it refers to larger social relationships, specifically the distinction(s) between in-group and out-group, whom the “boundary” separates. Â For members of the in-group, being part of it is an important aspect of identity, and therefore so is maintaining (or “policing”) the distinctions (“boundary”) between themselves and those of the out-group. Â And as dirge observes, the need to make and maintain such distinctions typically is not satisfied, leading those of the in-group to define further distinctions that exclude yet more people, some of whom formerly were part of the in-group. Â And so the circle grows ever smaller.
If this characterization of authoritarians is valid, then it would suggest that authoritarian movements are inherently self-destructive: they can’t help but eventually turn on each other. Â Maybe so maybe no, but Exhibit A, the Nazis running around executing insufficiently disloyal Germans even as the Russians were closing on Berlin, and Exhibit B, the current House Republican Caucus. Â We await with interest developments in the present larger experiment, the current MAGAfied Republican Party.
(Adding, this does NOT imply Dems should relax one damn bit. Â The Orcs must be driven shrieking back to their mountain lairs and hunted mercilessly should they dare to re-emerge.)
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: [sad face emoji]
@sab: thank you, darling. Â Can I get you some more sweet tea?
Omnes Omnibus
@sab: I agree wholeheartedly with your general point, but I am contractually obligated to fuck with Steve in the WTF. Or I don’t get my Soros bucks.
Starfish
@sab: Some states do not let people get divorced while pregnant.
Lyrebird
@Omnes Omnibus: â Thanks, got it!â
@sab:Â â
Oh no I certainly was not talking about you! I hope what I was responding to is under some pie on your screen.
Have a great Eclipse Week everyone!
sab
@Steve in the ATL: When you were in the neighborhood you wouldn’t even meet me, so you are dead to me. But I don’t hold grudges, so I won’t badmouth you. I am still a lady.
sab
@Starfish: Other states make you wait, hoping you will come to your senses.
sab
@Lyrebird: You just got caught in the crossfire. Those guys are lawyers, no holds barred.
WaterGirl
@Jackie:
Nancy SMASH!!!
Starfish
@sab: Legal Eagle had ratings for all the Trump lawyers, and the stupid ones are the ones that are out in front of the cameras the most. The good ones are quiet.
Starfish
@Baud: đ
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish:Â â
Don’t you notice that is it much like that here? The hack lawyers talk all the time and the smart ones…. Wait, I’ll come in again.
sab
@Starfish:Â i was afraid of that, that he had some good ones. Some of the Republican lawyers are quite good.
WaterGirl
eversor is temporarily in SPAM until I can reach John who will decide whether eversor gets another timeout.
Another Scott
@peter: Interesting.
Thanks very much.
Cheers,
Scott.
Gretchen
@sab: In Missouri you canât get a divorce finalized while pregnant. You have to wait until the baby is born.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: And, it was her tone of voice that gave that statement the kiss of dismissal! I hope that MJ interview gets posted online! Itâs well known TIFG watches MJ – itâs like he canât help himself – so I really think that while Nancy was speaking to the audience at large – she was privately speaking directly to âwhatâs his nameâ – knowing full well she was getting under his very thin skin yuughly. đ„°
Starfish
@sab: Here is the video. I thought it was interesting.
sab
Parents of bad teenagers:
I cleaned up my stepson’s pigstye one time. Didn’t mean to intrude. Didn’t mean to interfere, But it was a pigstye,
Accidentally threw away his whole stash. He was furious.
Steve in the ATL
@sab: sometimes I have free time, sometimes I donât. Â The negotiations up there were contentious and drawn out and I never had a free evening for a jackal meet up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: It was the restraining order, wasn’t it?
Glidwrith
@JoyceH: There was reporting when SFB was elected that some Rethugs expected to have slaves again.
sab
@WaterGirl: They are our first amendment martyr, which is why we have the pie filter. Sorry I did the first troll feeding.
sab
@Steve in the ATL: Go ahead and pretend to apologize. You just thought you were too cool for Northeast Ohio. As if you could ever be that cool.
Steve in the ATL
@sab: well, to be fair, I am pretty coolâŠ
@Omnes Omnibus: shhh!
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: You have my back. Good lawyer here.
Mr. Bemused Senior
“What’s his name.” If only I could forget.
caphilldcne
@Michael Bersin: very nice!!
Steeplejack
@sab:
đ» đ I hope they become fast friends!
sab
@sab: Also too, I have never signed anything with Omnes nor paid him a penny.
Jackie
@Starfish: That video is amazing! Omg, thatâs worth Front Paging!
sab
@Steeplejack: Dobs and Sadie are about as fast friends as cats can be. I did not think Dobs could have friends. He is very wary. But he and Sadie hit it off.
dirge
In this case, I was using it as shorthand for âpolicing the boundaries of in-group membership,â which I thought was clear from context, but may not have been.
Starfish
@Omnes Omnibus: The Balloon Juice lawyers are so funny.
sab
Pie filtered the dingbat. Should have been faster at it. Loony tunes there.
Peke Daddy
Logan Act somebody. Logan Act anybody already.
sab
Steeplejack
@sab:
I am so glad that Dobby escaped his sad background and found a happy place in your ménage. Bless you!
sab
@Steeplejack: The pitbull adores him.. Also too the cats. And Sadie the new cat
ETA We are talking about Dobby?
dirge
Thatâs certainly my observation. Â Like a pyramid scheme or protection racket (not a coincidental resemblance), as long as they have room to expand, they can commandeer new resources faster than the organization devours itself. Â I recall someone in finance describing this as âsurfing on your own wake of destruction.â Â If it canât move fast enough, it turns on itself. Â If it consumes its entire host entity, it either finds a way into other related entities, or it turns on itself. Â Authoritarian movements are always in a race against their own escalating toxicity and incompetence.
wjca
Perhaps that’s why he doesn’t generally find legitimate lawyers willing to take his cases.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Starfish: yes, well worth watching. Thanks.
Another Scott
@rikyrah: nycsouthpaw reminds us that there’s nothing to worry about.
States cannot keep presidential candidates off the ballot according to 23-719 Trump v. Anderson (03/04/2024), amirite??
I mean, it’s not like the SCOTUS has one set of rules for the GQP and another set of rules for Democrats or something…
//
Grr…,
Scott.
Villago Delenda Est
“States’ Rights” has been utter bullshit since the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act.
Jackie
More OMGÂ from Arizona:
đ¶đ»đ¶
dirge
No, itâs always been bullshit.
Statesâ Rights was always a veto for land owning patricians to exercise against their tenants. Â Thatâs the intended function of the Senate, just like the Roman Senate after which it was modeled. Â If the founding fathers could be here today, half would wonder why we still have senators from states, rather than from Amazon or ExxonMobil, and the other half would wonder why we still have a Senate at all, or for that matter ever allowed the creation of corporations.
Steve in the ATL
@Villago Delenda Est: and, as always, states donât have rights!
wjca
@Jackie:
Well, the GOP lawmakers could just repeal the damned law. But I suppose there might be some downside to that, too, where their careers are concerned….
Steeplejack
@sab:
Yes, talking about Dobby. He had a tough life before he came to you is what I meant. And I think it took him a while to acclimate?
artem1s
@Another Scott:Â â
I always thought his nym was a descriptor of his personality. you know, Butthurt.
Chris T.
@TBone: One man was crushed to death (dramatized in The Crucible, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles_Corey). This apparently led to reconsideration of the whole witch-trial movement…
Chris T.
@zhena gogolia:
There will be mass [sic] in his honor.
Villago Delenda Est
@dirge: The Founders were VERY skeptical of corporations. Remember, they dealt with the “Honorable” East India Company.
Villago Delenda Est
@wjca: The forced-birth assholes will vote in MAGAt lunatics in response.
Kayla Rudbek
@Brachiator: and the STD rate from WWI went through the roof as a result