.@CNN today on "signature laws passed under" @POTUS, the most significant legislative record since LBJ:
?American Rescue Plan
?Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal
?Bipartisan Safer Communities Act
?Inflation Reduction Act
?Chips and Science Act
?Respect for Marriage Act pic.twitter.com/LwTWnv5qMu— Andrew Bates (@AndrewJBates46) December 8, 2024
Biden at tree lighting says his holiday wish is for US to continue to seek light, liberty and love
— Associated Press ?? (@asssociatedpress.bsky.social) December 5, 2024 at 7:17 PM
229 judges confirmed under the Biden-Harris Administration… and counting!
— KamallaDreams (@kamalladreams.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 10:48 PM
Dude was playing ACTUAL three-dimensional chess and ran circles around the bad guys globally so of course the media was like "gotta get this guy out of here at any cost b/c chaos sells, this shit doesn't" https://t.co/fT5jsm1qNd
— scary lawyerguy (@scarylawyerguy) December 8, 2024
BREAKING: President Biden will become the first President in American history to register job growth in every single month during his Presidency. This is huge.
— Democratic Wins Media (@democraticwins.bsky.social) December 7, 2024 at 3:47 PM
Biden adds to the nation's list of national monuments during his term. There's an appetite for more
— Associated Press ?? (@asssociatedpress.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 9:30 AM
On The Road – Albatrossity – Day at the beach
Elizabelle
History will be kind to President Biden. And I guess we are living through the last of the good days. For now.
Baud
Sounds boring. We want unnecessary drama.
Elizabelle
I love, love, love listening to this album at this time of year. E. Power Biggs, magnificent concert organist, from 1963. Purely instrumental, and the Coventry Carol brings chills. That is a song with a dark history.
Music for a Merry Christmas, with the Columbia Chamber Orchestra. I even love the album cover, with its medieval art cut outs.
And: think how dark Christmas 1963 must have felt. We will get through this, although I would say this year is darker.
satby
It ended up that we didn’t deserve such a good man and great president.
Baud
@satby:
Or his veep.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: I wish I was better at focusing on (and communicating to others) these positives. I guess an argument can be made that we’re seeing these in the press in these waning days so as to heighten the differences with what’s coming — probably will sell more birdcage liner that way.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
We’re seeing it in the press now because the press wants to make clear they own us. And they do.
Fake Irishman
@Baud:
Also, too: since no one seems to know about all this good stuff it must be that the Democrats suck at messaging and we need to spend all of our time talking about how Democrats suck at messaging .
Also, too because Biden didn’t fix issue X, it means we cant talk about any achievements in other areas because that means we are ignoring real problems and showing how out of touch we are.
Did I do that right?
Fake Irishman
@Fake Irishman:
And in all seriousness, thanks to Anne Laurie for her usual documentation of good things the admin is doing. Every little bit helps to cut through the noise.
prostratedragon
@Elizabelle: “think how dark Christmas 1963 must have felt.” It did. But those clouds began to lift in early ’64 as I recall. The uncertainties now are much greater and darker.
Baud
@Fake Irishman:
Stop reading my bluesky feed.
prostratedragon
@Fake Irishman: Yes. I’ll be spreading these among friends and family.
Baud
@Fake Irishman:
Thirded.
Elizabelle
@prostratedragon: Oh, I agree. This is Christmas 1933.
@satby: We absolutely deserve Biden Harris.
The yokel voters: not so much. Maybe they will learn. Maybe they will not.
And the corporate MSM’s cloven hooves and forked tongue are out there, front and center.
I honestly cannot make up what shows up on the Vichy Times’ website. Worry that DougJ might develop a drinking problem.
Fake Irishman
@Baud:
Bluesky feed? I’m reading the Balloon Juice comments sections.
JCJ
@Elizabelle: History should be kind, but that just makes those headlines about a tarnished legacy following the Worst Pardon In History all the more infuriating.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Fake Irishman: You also forgot
The fact that Democrats passed six major laws, to Trump’s one, shows there is no difference between the two groups
Everyone hates the left.
And as other mention; Biden pardon his son negates the rest.
lowtechcyclist
They could have just as easily run this story two months ago, when it would have been relevant info for voters to factor into their decisions.
Fuck you, CNN.
satby
@Elizabelle: Collectively, we didn’t. As a group, we didn’t have his back, not just in this last year when it mattered, but almost all four years. We will get other capable leaders eventually, but very few humans both as competent at governance and as truly compassionate in spirit.
Baud
@Fake Irishman:
The nice thing about losing is that it allows everyone to get on their high horse.
Baud
@satby:
Agree.
satby
@Baud: They own us, they set the agenda with what they selectively report, and we all dance reactively to their tunes.
lowtechcyclist
@Fake Irishman:
And when Kamala Harris became the Democratic nominee, we already knew what she’d been doing as part of the Biden administration, thanks to AL.
Even before she became the nominee, I knew from AL’s morning posts that if anything happened to Biden and she had to take over for him in mid-term, there’d be nothing to worry about – she’d do a fine job as President.
Baud
@satby:
That’s how I see it too. We’re reactive and contrarian, because we’ve decided anything positive is not positive enough.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s what I concluded – for myself, I blame the doomers. One can’t really blame the low information voters or even the press if there is a sizable group on the left who just sit around constantly complaining about how horrible things are and shouting down any good news as a lie.
I simply do not care if the MSM encourages doom scrolling, no one is putting a gun to everyone’s goddamn head and forcing us to read their bullshit, not mention for every “it’s a fucked article” there is a “thinks are awesome” article, yet the doomers refuse to read the positive stories because they need to get their thrill like some junkie.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Elizabelle
I love Andy Borowitz. (satirist)
NotMax
Start the week off with a smile time.
Dame can’t resist dancing to the pint-size virtuoso.
;)
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I saw it on Reddit over the last four years. The environment is hopeless. The economy is hopeless. And of course Biden is old. All mostly directed at young people. I think a lot of it was oligarch sponsored and directed. Too soon to say how much effect it had.
lowtechcyclist
@satby:
I don’t get this. What should ‘we’ have done differently? How did we have Obama’s or Clinton’s back in a way that we didn’t for Biden?
Hell, Clinton hardly even had his own back, but still won re-election fairly easily.
zhena gogolia
@satby: No, we certainly didn’t
lowtechcyclist
@lowtechcyclist:
I’ll add that ‘we’ showed up for him in the 2022 midterms in a way that ‘we’ most certainly didn’t in the wipeouts of 2010 or 1994.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@zhena gogolia: No, we just underestimated the power and influence of the fascists.
Fair Economist
@lowtechcyclist: I think the change is more that that attacks have become more relentless more than our side is sticking up for our leaders less. The left has always been more fractious. But the media is more relentless on pushing RW propaganda – e.g. the endless reporting on inflation even as we were experiencing record growth – and there’s the new phenomenon of manipulating algorithmic media (usually misnamed as “social” media; it’s not apart from Mastodon) both directly by controlling the algorithm and indirectly by buying influencers.
As a partial counter, we *really, really, really* need to learn to stand with people on our side even when they make a mistake or do something we disagree with.
WereBear
@Baud: Depressing teenagers?
Fish in a barrel.
glory b
@lowtechcyclist: As for the southerners, Clinton was one of them & got more of their votes.
Obama was re elected before the full force of the Supreme Court’s gutting of the Voting Rights Act came into full effect.
Still remember, Democrats haven’t gotten a majority of the white vote in the entire country since the passage of th Civil Rights & Voting Rights Acts.
after he signed them, LBJ is said to have commented that the Democratic party just lost the white vote for a generation.
He was optimistic.
But I’m sure our progressive betters will be here in no time to explain how none of that meant anything & Dems are history’s greatest monsters.
Betty Cracker
Heh!
cmorenc
@Baud:
The obvious substantial price increases of so many grocery store items and fast-food restaurant prices between Jan 2021 and fall 2024 was what made the drum-beat of GOP propaganda stick. The GOP’s best advert was actually when folks paid $10 and change for what they could get for $7.50 at BubbaBurger in 2020. And mortgages that could be had for under 3% in 2020 now could not be had for less than 7+% in early 2024. No matter that the root cause was the malevolently feckless way the Trump Administration handled COVID during Trump’s final year in office, nor that inflation and supply side issues were a world-wide phenomenon.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
They’re killing in the wrong direction!
TBone
No time for blame and recrimination. Again.
Baud
@cmorenc:
We can’t compare things to a world where there was no inflation. But I’m not as optimistic as you that there wouldn’t have been some other excuse that they would have used to damage us.
TBone
@Betty Cracker: hahahahahahaha!
WereBear
@Fair Economist: Even an atheist can “go fundy” and lock onto a belief system, instead of the feedback from reality.
Most vegans quietly drop out within months, but those who make it religious and stake their identity on it will refuse to listen to warning signs or their doctor.
I blame toxic positivity.
Elizabelle
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: The Economist’s word for 2024 should have been two: Oligarch Kakistocracy.
Cuz it is. They bought the messaging.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Baud: “Wait a minute, unlimited access to firearms includes the people we want to oppress as well?”
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: What is “based”? In Elonworld?
cmorenc
@Baud: It’s easy to sell less-informed voters that Biden was the cause when their everyday voters so frequently ran into obvious significantly higher prices as their direct contact point with information, reinforcing GOP propaganda spread via social media. We at BJ are relative exceptions to the extent most of the public spends informing themselves at more than a very superficial level of time and effort.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Youth slang. I think it basically means bad ass action that doesn’t involve caring what others think.
Elizabelle
@cmorenc: I hope they enjoy the side of fascism they get with their eggs.
Central Planning
The Democratic marketing team needs to get their shit together and make sure the adjective ‘Democratic’ is in front of every one of those accomplishments in that first post. smh
Baud
@cmorenc:
There will always be something. We didn’t have inflation in 2016.
ETA: Or in 2000.
p.a
Can we get to the point where Joe (or Pres X) is about to sign the Bipartisan Act to… and have Joe (X) say, “I’m renaming this to “Democrats Save Your Ass Again Act.”
How ’bout Joe, since his mental decline is soooooo severe: “What Protect Journalists Act? Doesn’t ring a bell. Think I’ll go for ice cream. 3 scoops at least…”
SFAW
@Baud:
We can’t, but the MSM and RWMFs could, because mumble mumble veeblefetzer mumble reasons.
M31
remember when Reagan passed gun control laws in CA right after some Black Panthers started open carrying long guns?
huh
Spanky
@Baud:
Well, that leaves Elmo out.
WereBear
But for the first time, MAGA doesn’t like it either.
Wasn’t supposed to be their face.
Will they demand their own supports be taken away? Does their support matter if they won’t demand elections with the rest of us in only two years.
I couldn’t understand Clyburn’s stance, but maybe he knows Trump can’t appear in public, soon. He’s collapsing like that condo in Florida.
That’s our real advantage. Who is their backup?
No, seriously.
Baud
I guess if Trump does tank the economy with his tariffs, we’ll see if voters resent it and how the media covers it.
ETA: Of course, since Trump can’t run again, the voters can just give the next GOP nominee a pass.
TBone
A great President Biden meme for this topic. Also, a great bluesky account overall.
bsky.app/profile/fancysplace.bsky.social/post/3lcu2wktdqs2m
cmorenc
@Elizabelle:
Hard truth is that a government able to keep people’s daily lives affordable is #1 on their list of priorities, so long as they personally are not on the government’s enemies list.
lowtechcyclist
@Fair Economist:
Can’t argue with you there. But other than the Dem politicians who were IMHO way too fast to undercut Biden after the debate at the end of June, I really don’t see how ‘we’ (for whatever definition of ‘we’ that satby had in mind) failed to have his back over the past four years, in a way that ‘we’ typically have the back of the President of our own party.
I agree that we as citizens and Democrats have to find ways to up our game in terms of influencing those we come in contact with. As one who spends no time on what people think of as social media (this here comments section IS social media, it just isn’t what people mean when they use that phrase), I’m not sure what I can do in that department, but I’m open to suggestions.
RevRick
@Elizabelle: The year prior, following the Cuban Missile Crisis, Noel Regney wrote the lyrics for “Do You Hear What I Hear?” Gloria Shayne wrote the music. 1962 was the year the whole world held its breath.
WereBear
Both parties will endure a split. Like the last Civil War.
History rhymes,
glory b
@M31: I read somewhere that proportionally, more firearm purchases now are from black women than any other group.
SFAW
@Baud:
The voters will resent that the Demoncraps tanked The Economy, which they will know is true because Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, and the MSM told them so.
Baud
@SFAW:
Obviously a failure of Democratic messaging.
SFAW
@Baud:
Sam Alito, Clarence Thomas, and the rest of the Sinister Six might beg to differ.
SFAW
@Baud:
Well, yeah.
mappy!
Once they figured out that they could move the focus of the check-out line from the message of the week on the cover of the National Enquirer to the total on the receipt, all they had to do was keep raising prices. A double grift. They got votes for tax cuts and a bigger chunk of the paychecks. Now, they can keep raising prices with abandon… Simple.
SFAW
@mappy!:
It frustrates the hell out of me that so little attention was paid (by the MSM) to any price gouging by producers/manufacturers.
lowtechcyclist
@Central Planning:
As has been noted here, there is no ongoing Democratic marketing effort, and that’s really a big part of the problem. Each Presidential campaign creates its own campaign infrastructure and does its own marketing, and after the election is won or lost, all that organization evaporates.
Apparently there is either little success on the part of the Democratic Party at raising money in between election seasons, though it isn’t clear to me how much effort goes into that. And without ongoing fundraising, there really can’t be much of an ongoing Dem marketing effort.
Elizabelle
@RevRick: I remember the Cuban Missile crisis. I was a little kid in Hawaii, and thought it might be the next island over.
Thank you; had not realized that song was relatively new.
Leto
@Elizabelle: Per Urban Dictionary
K-Mo
Did the job numbers for December and January come out already? Wall St would love to know.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I don’t think that’s very different from Republicans. Most right wing marketing isn’t done by the Republican Party itself. It’s done by private actors aligned with Republicans.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Leto: Musk is remarkably childish for his age
The Audacity of Krope
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Musk never learned to deal with the word “no.”
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
“How Elon Musk became relatable to young people.” /NYT
Geminid
@Baud: “Based” also has a positive connnotation suggesting approval.
I generally don’t use the word myself, but I made an exception this spring on a well-known social media platform.
People were arguing back and forth about Arab leaders and their careful approach to the Gaza war, and then someone posted a picture of Jordan’s King Abdullah with the caption, “In one word, how would you describe this man?”
Almost all the replies were along the lines of, “Coward! Apostate! Traitor!” etc. I couldn’t resist answering, “Based.”
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Exactly. Which is why the Dems need to do it themselves, because they don’t have that sort of independent media infrastructure.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I think that’s asking more of a political party than is possible.
Kayla Rudbek
@Dorothy A. Winsor: and for having spawned 12 children (although since he does no child care and barely has contact with his kids, he doesn’t have much experience with actually being a parent)
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Possible? Yes. Instant? No. Delayed? Painfully.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
I don’t think it’s even possible in any way that’ll be positive. If it happens, it’s going to take private initiative.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: You mean voters and activists will have to do things for themselves?
Perish the thought.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Also, investors who aren’t fascist. There are a handful.
Soprano2
@Fake Irishman: Democrat’s “messaging problem” is that they don’t have several TV networks and hundreds of radio stations telling people about their accomplishments and the other side’s problems 24/7/365. I don’t know what we do about that. Think about this, we don’t have this and yet our candidate almost won anyway.
I see Amy Klobuchar is the latest Dem politician to clutch her pearls about Biden pardoning Hunter and saying she’s upset about this talk about pre-emptive pardons for people, because she believes in the “rule of law”. Even though TCFG was on Press the Meat on Sunday saying that the people on the January 6th committee should be in jail for what they did to him! Do these people not know the things we on this blog know?
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
The right likes to use “Communist” as a slur against Democrats. But one aspect where it’s accurate is when it comes to insisting that the party handle everything relating to political culture.
The Audacity of Krope
If you view capital investment as an ethical source of power, this might be possible.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: The fact that Biden did this and the rural middle-class voters can still say Democrats don’t care about their problems and don’t want to help them indicates to me that the “problems” they’re talking about don’t have that much to do with good jobs and investment in the places where they live.
Like immigration – I don’t know why it’s so hard for Democrats to say “We need an overhaul of our immigration law because it doesn’t serve us anymore. It’s full of red tape and bureaucracy that makes it hard for the people who want to come here to work and contribute to society do it legally. The last time we did a major revision of our immigration law was 1986, it’s past time to do it again”, and then detail some things they think need to be changed. I think the majority of people would agree with that! When I tell conservatives I think this needs to happen, some of them actually agree with me.
Leto
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Peter Pan syndrome.
Another Scott
One for OO – In the ultimate irony, she came to Australia to go to clown school.
[ womp, womp ]
(via mastodon.social/explore )
Have a good week, everyone. Hang in there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
You’d have to go back to Carter to find an investor who has been economically harmed by Democratic policies. They just don’t like paying taxes and having to comply with regulations, and having to pay workers more.
different-church-lady
But none of those things hurt people that aren’t like me!Soprano2
@Baud: Too many people let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Instead of touting how great the Inflation Reduction Act was, too many Democrats instead griped that they didn’t get Build Back Better.
narya
@Baud: Yeah, I want to see a multitude of voices (e.g., Talking Points Memo, Democracy Docket, Pro Publica), with their own areas of expertise, and, hey, include the national Dem party (esp. if Ben Wikler gets in there). But don’t expect the party to do it all, because they simply cannot. But the R party doesn’t do it all, either.
Suzanne
@Kayla Rudbek:
The frightening thing is that this is the aspiration for a lot of men: have a bunch of kids by a bunch of women, and then leave them to all the actual work.
Birthrate collapse is due in large part to women recognizing that this is a bad deal.
different-church-lady
@Soprano2: Amy, the rule of law was voted away in November.
eclare
@Elizabelle:
From what I’ve read, Elon was there.
RevRick
@Central Planning: We are the Democratic marketing team. Whenever there’s a link with good news for our team, I repost it on X, and share it on my Facebook feed.
It’s what MAGA did all the time, sharing endless memes about how Biden raised gas prices or was a clueless doofus or all their nasty FJB comments. They flood the zone with shit. We need to flood it with the truth.
Baud
@Soprano2:
TBH, I didn’t see as much of that after the IRA passed. Could just have been my particular bubble.
I saw a lot of propaganda about how Biden hates labor because of how he handled the rail strike. I believe those contracts are up next year or 2026, so we’ll see how Trump handles it.
Betty Cracker
@Kayla Rudbek: Someone on Bluesky pointed out Musk has been dragging a small child around with him ever since the UHC CEO shooting, suggesting he’s using the kid as a human shield.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Here’s my thing. Investment of that nature, itself, is a problem. Capital provides power not accountable to democratic processes.
I have a hard time dealing with this. To the point of self sabotage where I can’t heat my house.
Soprano2
@Baud: I see it here too, that things are hopeless for young people. I agree that young people have it hard, but they’ve always had it hard. Things aren’t the worst for young people that they’ve ever been, oh no just give up right now, but from reading some stuff you wouldn’t know that.
narya
@Soprano2: Honestly, I think the Republican Party prefers the current system: the business owners get to exploit the undocumented folks they hire, AND the owners get to support the party that can use immigration as an ISSUE. Win-win. They have no interest in actually solving the problems; they’d have to pay more for labor and they’d lose that big political issue.
Baud
@RevRick:
You’ll never move the Overton Window that way.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: I will always believe that the most consequential elections of my lifetime were 2000 and 2010. They have shaped most of what came after them, mostly for the worse. For one thing, if Gore had won in 2000 I guarantee you we wouldn’t have attacked Iraq if 9-11 had happened anyway.
RevRick
@Soprano2: They not only don’t think the Biden policies did anything to help them, they believe he brought catastrophic ruin and tyranny upon them.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: Wait, when did having children around start deterring shooters?
Gin & Tonic
I’ll be the turd in the punchbowl this Monday morning – Biden/Blinken/Sullivan screwed the pooch on Ukraine and are leaving it in a far worse position going into Trump II than it could have been. “Escalation management” sucked.
I don’t give a shit if people don’t want to hear it. It’s the truth.
The Thin Black Duke
Black people are paying the same prices for gas and eggs as white people are but we voted accordingly. I guess we’re too simple to comprehend who we really should be mad at.
Leto
For your morning laugh: If you wondered how a Deplorian/WankPanzer/CyberTurd handled the Canadian winter…
different-church-lady
@The Thin Black Duke: There’s a strong chance you’re paying more, due to segregation.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
If black people had voted the same as white people, white liberals wouldn’t be using inflation to excuse it. The talk would be all about how socially conservative black voters are.
RevRick
@lowtechcyclist: Did you share this post on your social media? I was number 919 to repost on X. I also shared to my Facebook page.
MAGA types eagerly share any and everything that bolsters their side, no matter how false it is.
I have little patience for the notion why don’t they do something? I always take the position, what can I do ? And then I promptly do it.
Suzanne
@RevRick:
Nah. We’re the foot soldiers, sure, but there should be a serious investment in marketing leadership. Brand crafting.
I went for a long run yesterday, which is, like, the only time I get to think about anything. I was musing on how Democrats/left-leaners have really lost the reputation for being funny. I think this has been really damaging to us. We’ve got some Percy Weasley energy happening, and I don’t think that’s good.
The way people consume information is all-mixed-up now with entertainment. Some of us were commenting yesterday about lots of guys getting political information from Rogan, even though they’re not seeking out political information. But there’s a ton of worldview-shaping information and commentary there. Martin talked about AOC showing up at an event focused on gaming, and how his kids love her now. I think we have to get better at this, having an ecosystem of entertaining content that also informs.
NeenerNeener
@Baud: I’m trying to figure out where my “always votes Dem” sister got all the “Biden is senile” stories. They seem to be rehashes of stories that have come out about Trump (falling asleep in meetings, wandering away from meetings with other world leaders, etc) but now they star Biden instead. And Jill Biden is supposedly running the country now like Nancy Reagan did when Ronnie was too addled to function. There must be some stealth MAGAs posting crap on “liberal” social media because my sister doesn’t read obvious MAGA sites.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: I always go to the supermarket in the wealthier town next door because (same chain) the food is cheaper.
satby
@Betty Cracker: it’s the small child he’s in a custody dispute over with the child’s mother, Grimes. The kid’s name is X Æ A-12. They both should lose custody just for that cruelty.
Soprano2
@different-church-lady: I agree. I don’t know why she couldn’t say something like “Under normal circumstances the pardon of Hunter Biden might bother me, but when the incoming president nominates a person for head of the FBI who has published a literal enemies list of people he wants to investigate for doing their jobs, that changes things”. Make the press talk about Patel’s enemies list, and the FACT that TCFG said on Press the Meat yesterday that the people who were on the January 6th committee should be in jail for what they did to him. This is not an empty threat.
The Audacity of Krope
That’s not communism, that’s laziness.
RevRick
@Baud: The way to shift the Overton window is by raising our own voices. It won’t shift itself. And sitting on the sidelines, waiting for Democratic officials to do all the work for us seems to me to guarantee failure.
If nothing else, sharing on social media helps build morale among my circle of Democratic friends.
Soprano2
@narya: That’s why Democrats should promote it, to put pressure on them. I think immigration reform would be popular, and I think a lot of the ideas Democrats have for it would be popular. We’d probably have to accept some things we don’t like, but I think it would be worthwhile to try that rather than accepting the Republican framing “OMG scary immigrants more border security NOW!!!”
NeenerNeener
@Betty Cracker: You would think he’d realize that with the prevalence of school shootings that makes him an even bigger target.
zhena gogolia
@Fair Economist:
Really? Really?
Soprano2
@RevRick: That they have outsized anger over something like people saying what pronouns they prefer is a clue that the press can’t seem to pick up on. Did you see that post mistermix put up over the weekend with the picture of the pickup truck? I see stuff like that here. I used to see bumper stickers that said “Liberal hunting license”. They all thought that was super funny.
different-church-lady
@NeenerNeener:
Based on what I saw in July, she got them from Democrats.
The Thin Black Duke
@different-church-lady: Oh sure. But we know who’s fault it is.
John Steinbeck said that problem with Americans is “too many people think of themselves as temporary millionaires”, so they believe putting guardrails on the oligarchs with prevent them from achieving fame and fortune in the future.
Black people understand that won’t happen because the fix is in. The system is working as it was designed to do.
Black people learned that the MSM is not to be trusted. When I was growing up, Jet and Ebony was telling me information that the white newspapers and magazines weren’t.
Elizabelle
@Soprano2: Applause.
I don’t understand why Klobuchar and others don’t go to that formulation, either.
Hate to think that, after David Frum’s experience with Morning Joke, they are tailoring their responses so they will be invited back. Must not upset the dishonest gatekeepers.
Baud
@RevRick:
I’m with you 100%. The Overton Window theory has been one of the most pernicious and destructive ideas in modern liberalism. It’s a permission slip for savvy well-off liberals to pretend that they’re above the fray and don’t have to support anything, which coincidentally also helps them to maintain their social status.
Soprano2
@Gin & Tonic: I agree, they were way too cautious. For a person whose strength was supposed to be foreign policy, Biden sure did screw up a lot in that area. I also agree that when it comes to Israel, they could have enforced existing law in order to put pressure in Israel. I don’t believe that crap that Biden could end the war with one phone call, though.
RevRick
@Suzanne: No! We need to take it upon ourselves to promote Democrats and Democratic policies every chance we get. People are more influenced by their friends networks than they are by grand statements by leaders.
We cannot afford to sit on our hands.
Glory b
@The Thin Black Duke: Right? I’m wondering why no one says they need to interview BLACK PEOPLE to find out why we vote the way we do.
Remember all those interviews at “random” diners in Youngstown OH? It has a very substantial black population, why didn’t the media ever run into any of them?
Baud
@Suzanne:
Hard to be funny when you want to scold everyone under the sun for not being good enough.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: Actually the last major immigration overhaul was in the Clinton admin in 1996, under a Republican Congress lead by Gingrich and it made the immigration system more draconian.
Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996
The Audacity of Krope
In my slice of the world it was all non-voters.
Pop quiz, what do you think all the non-voters around me who spent July complaining Biden was too old did in November after the old switcheroo?
schrodingers_cat
testing
different-church-lady
@RevRick: Problem is my “friend network” doesn’t include persuadables.
The Audacity of Krope
@NeenerNeener: Elon, smarter than the rest of us, learned on the internet that small children have more stopping power than kevlar.
Soprano2
Somehow we’ve become the scolds who take all the fun out of everything. Even I cringe sometimes at how people will jump on someone for using a word incorrectly, or not knowing some word or usage has become offensive. We have gotten a reputation as the unforgiving schoolmarm, and I agree that it hurts us a lot. The other side is as much “snowflakes” as anyone, and get offended about the dumbest things, but they don’t pay a price for that.
satby
@NeenerNeener: that specifically came from an email forward that was probably a Russian op and targeted white women who listen to NPR and are liberal. It was forwarded to me by one, and she argued vociferously with me that it wasn’t disinfo because it was obviously true based on the first debate between Biden and the convict.
RevRick
@Soprano2: Yes, I saw that disgusting truck. And I believe that if individual Democrats don’t offer a counter message in whatever public square they can, then low information voters will conclude that the truck’s owner must be on to something.
Ramona
@SFAW: if Trump runs again, we run Obama against him.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: Voted for an old white guy anyway?
Baud
@Soprano2:
They don’t pay a price for a lot of things.
RevRick
@different-church-lady: Do it for mutual encouragement then.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: They didn’t vote at all. Imagine.
This is what happens when you chase voters who couldn’t give a shit about you.
Soprano2
@satby: Wow, I agree, what an awful thing to do to a child.
Betty Cracker
@Soprano2: If there were a market for networks that disseminated pro-Dem content, they’d exist. Instead, we get sniping from “influencers” who define their politics in opposition to the Dems.
I think there’s a structural difference between the parties’ makeup that advantages Republicans, and there’s no simple solution. Dems are a fractious coalition. Repubs are far more homogeneous in their worldview and goals, even in states like FL, where the party is genuinely diverse.
The Thin Black Duke
@The Audacity of Krope: I bet the child has a name tag so Elmo will remember who he is.
The Audacity of Krope
@The Thin Black Duke: Does the name tag come with a pronunciation guide?
different-church-lady
@RevRick: I do, but all of my friends are hardcore reliable liberal voters already.
satby
@The Thin Black Duke: he can remember. They call the kid X.
Glory b
@Suzanne: BUT AOC couldn’t get even 100 people to go to a rally for Jamaal Bowman in NYC, her turf.
A majority of white males 18-35 consider themselves conservative, they have as much access to her as his kids.
I think it’s a mistake to always designate anyone as a savior, like we are inclined to do. She appeals to a group of voters, doesn’t appeal to others.
That’s okay.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, I didn’t even know about that. Still my argument stands, we need reform of our system. It’s stupid that it takes the spouse of an American citizen several years just to get a green card! I think a lot of it is all the crap that got put in place after 9-11 that has never been rethought or examined to see if it’s actually effective.
Quinerly
@NeenerNeener:
Jill Biden now has a crush on Trump. Some crazy Daily Mail pieces, along with some other stuff, came up in my feed last night. Jill and Trump were chatting at Notre Dame. Jill was photographed smiling. Lots of RWNJ comments about how her eyes were sparkling. “Some say” she voted for Trump and is ecstatic over his election. “Some also say” Joe also voted for Trump.
These people live and walk amongst us.
Starfish (she/her)
@lowtechcyclist: It’s not that we didn’t stand with politicians. It’s that we engaged in circular firing squad nonsense when we could least afford to do so. Some people are choosing to do it still.
The Republican party embraced folks that were lonely during the pandemic. Hey, “Yes, I agree that the people you think are weird ARE WEIRD. We accept you and think you are of above average good looks.”
Baud
Boiling milk will become an act of defiance.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Excellent.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: This gives me hope that the finding out will be fast. Also, too, as much as I rely on cheese and yogurt for protein, I should probably give up milk for a while.
zhena gogolia
@Quinerly: Wow.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic:
I will join you in the punch bowl. Totally agree.
Ramona
@Betty Cracker: No, he was doing that before the shooting.
The Audacity of Krope
I’ll bite. Could have been if we did what different?
different-church-lady
@Quinerly: Kill your
televisionfeed.Suzanne
@RevRick:
I’m obviously not being clear, which is my fault.
Yes, of course we share good stories and reach out to friends and postcards and all of that. But that isn’t marketing. That isn’t creating a strong brand identity or shaping a positive vision for the future that people want to align with. That isn’t building credibility over years. That isn’t crafting a communication strategy. Those are things that we need creative professionals to do. Us normies need to continue doing what we do, but genuine marketing is a separate effort and incredibly important in the current media/technology environment.
We dumped a metric shit-ton of money into the Harris campaign, to buy the TV ads and the direct mail and billboards and social media ads, etc etc etc. I don’t have a whole lot of confidence that we did the best job with that. That’s what we need pros to do. The endless campaign isn’t going to happen just by sharing links.
Fair Economist
@RevRick:
The problem, though, is that when you post it on algorithmic media like Facebook and X, the controllers of the algorithm determine if it gets seen. And they tune it so our stuff generally doesn’t while Republican stuff generally does.
The Audacity of Krope
As someone who gets most of his news reporting and editorials from white wingers showing up and preaching at the pharmacy service counter, I’d like you to consider that this sort of approach can have more reach and impact than you think.
satby
@The Audacity of Krope: unless you’re seeking out products from unpasteurized milk on purpose, most cheese and yogurt in this country is made from low-temperature (regular, not ultra) pasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk products are safe.
John S.
@Baud:
Or smart enough to understand what’s good for them (even if it’s true).
Nobody likes a scold.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
“Sir, this is a
Wendy’sCVS.”Elizabelle
@Quinerly: The NY Post was doing that, but attributing the reaction to Trump fans. Did not report it as fact.
Baud
@John S.:
Also, too, all the outrage were supposed to feel all the time isn’t very funny.
Regular folks really don’t care about our emotions and certainly don’t want to center our feelings.
The Audacity of Krope
Worse than that. I’m a very, very latecomer to X. I’m constantly blocking right wing garbage and engage with some, but very little, left politics content.
I’m mostly on there for the undressed. Doesn’t stop the algorithm from recommending me several right wing feeds I haven’t yet blocked. All my left stuff was linked from here.
different-church-lady
@Elizabelle: we are now in an era where “facts” are anything enough noisy people believe.
The Audacity of Krope
I’m planning for the post RFK future. Or are you saying this is a necessary part of making these products?
John S.
@Quinerly:
I understand the concept of decorum, but I can’t for the life of me understand how any Democrat can either 1) enjoy spending time around Trump or 2) pretend to enjoy spending time around Trump. One can be courteous but curt.
And if anyone treated my spouse the way Trump treated Biden, there’s no way I could crack a smile in their presence. It would be hard enough for me to endure being around them without wanting to thrash them.
I guess that’s why I’m not in politics.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: If there’s any hope to be had, it’s in the history of Trump’s lackeys having a shorter shelf life than the milk.
WereBear
@SFAW: What would possess them to upset their advertisers?
We are ratings numbers.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: Eh. Trump can get new lackeys, the barrel doesn’t have a bottom. His administration is almost assuredly locked in for four years.
John S.
@Baud:
Very true. I thought we had tapped into some of that humor with Tim Walz, but after some early glimpses, the campaign forced him to be a bog standard politician without any charisma.
The Audacity of Krope
@John S.: I see Democrats be funny all the time. Just, do you prefer thoughtful humor or do you laugh at abuse, like Republicans?
YY_Sima Qian
Long thread by a senior analyst from the International Crisis Group on the difficulties delivering aid to territories controlled by sanctioned groups, as the HTS that just seized power in most of Syria remains designated as a terrorist organization by a multitude of nations (the US, the UK, Russia, Türkiye, etc.) & international organizations (the UN, the EU, etc.):
Gin & Tonic
@The Audacity of Krope: Provided ATACMS sooner. Allowed Ukraine to target sites in russia. Just for two quick ones.
satby
@The Audacity of Krope: no, it’s not; but even the Mennonite dairy farmers I know pasteurize their milk before they make yogurt and cheese. Wormbrain can encourage raw milk sellers, but he’s not going to be helping them with liability insurance.
Kathleen
@satby: Yup. ETA Also why isn’t he saving us from what majority of voters wanted???? ss//
prostratedragon
From Sherrilyn Ifill:
tobie
@Baud: OMG. RFK Jr wants to make America sick again. I listened to an excerpt from Sarah Longwell’s podcast. RFK Jr has apparently piqued the interest of her focus group subjects: Biden =>Trump voters. The world’s complicated so what convinces low info and MAGAt voters? Conspiracy theories.
I’m so sad for this country. You can’t build or maintain an advanced economy with an uneducated workforce but that’s the point to which we’ve come. Every home improvement guy thinks he’s a genius and doesn’t realize his success is due to the fact that people have disposable income.
The Audacity of Krope
@Gin & Tonic: So, to be clear, you’re saying what Biden did was insufficient? Just being sure because the original message was giving “actively harmful.”
Welcome to American politics.
Suzanne
@Glory b:
Of course she couldn’t get people to show up for a political rally. Most people don’t give a shit about politics and don’t want to seek out an explicitly political event or story. It’s when political information shows up in other elements of their lifestyle that it gets through. She’s not a savior, but she’s a master of the current communication paradigm.
The actual candidates and policies are downstream of a worldview, right? Like, what are the values of our side? On a good day, I would say: making a world of fair play for all, a sustainable future, acceptance of diversity in all its forms. That’s the Democratic brand. So: we need to make everyone think of that, all the time. The endless campaign. And then, at every election cycle, much of the work is done already. People would have a better idea what candidates stand for, how their actions and policies are part of that worldview.
Without a strong brand identity, we almost have to redo this work every election cycle. It’s bad.
Kathleen
@Fake Irishman: Needs moar “Dems suck at messaging”! ss//
narya
@Soprano2: Oh, I agree, I think what I’m getting at is that the incoming administration has a trifecta, so Dem options are more limited. Making an issue of it, wanting to solve it, without any actual power to do so, might be worse–BUT! it could be a good part of the midterm campaigns. Don’t get me wrong, I do think that what you suggest is helpful, and we can prepare now.
Kathleen
@Baud: Fourthed.
catclub
huh? Biden got a whole lot more votes in 2020 than Obama in 2012.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Agree
The Audacity of Krope
My mind returns to an anti-vax pharmacist I worked with some years ago who also liked promoting raw milk*, Alex Jones, and her children’s successes at homeschooling.
*The lengths she went through to obtain this were astounding
glory b
@Soprano2: No, the problem is that media Dems know that every time they tout an accomplishment, lefties come oout of the woodwork complaining about all of the things that are still wrong and accusing Dems of ignoring people still hurting, patting themselves on the back without cause bescause everything isn’t perfect yet, etc.
Then, when they’re in the media, they hear, “But there are those in YOUR party that say you’re ignoring (name your issue)! How do you explain THAT? What’s your response to them?”
And by the time they’re finished, the great news is forgotten.
Republicans have message discipline we don’t have, they don’t get the same treatment & their good news (relatively speaking) resonates.
Quinerly
Spent the last 2 days hiking and in AZ wine country (love the grasslands of Sonoita and Elgin.) Great live music and I have become a convert to the very dry meads at “The Meading Room” on AZ 82. Also, I highly suggest “Rune Winery.” Great back story. Just adore the young male owner and what he is doing. Totally off grid, beautifully landscaped with JoJo friendly trails. Yesterday, I also met the owner, winemaker, and vineyard manager of another small AZ winery….”Lightning Ridge Cellars.” Ann Roncone does it all on less than 20 acres she bought less than 20 years ago. Plus, she’s growing olive trees and making her own olive oil. Mostly self taught with an engineering background. Left her cubicle in the Bay area and never looked back. Just a lovely time chatting with her. Slow day at her off the beaten path vineyard. She started with a wine kit 30 years ago. After that moved on from drinking wine coolers to making fine wines. I have never had a wine cooler in my laugh but the conversation did make me flash on my school teacher mom’s “Cold Duck” period of life….those little splits a couple of times a week. Anybody here old enough to remember “Cold Duck?” Ann and I had a good laugh about it.
So been out of the news loop until late last night. Anybody discussing Clyburn’s encouraging Biden to pardon Trump? Yes, I am one who still listens to MSNBC. Only read Adam’s thread when I got back to my rental. Apologies if Clyburn’s thoughts have been posted, argued about, attacked, insulted already.
yahoo.com/news/clyburn-urges-biden-pardon-trump-022235193.html
Hope
The re-election of Trump to the presidency will go down as the most significant “own goal” in our nation’s history.
catclub
I think Biden => non-voters is a bigger group.
I think every single Trump=>Harris voter was in a campaign ad.
Kathleen
@glory b: I hope you have a newsletter to which I can subscribe.
YY_Sima Qian
Delaney Simon of the Crisis Group makes a similar point as Graeme Smith on the urgent need to provide sanctions relief to Syria & its multitude of unsavory factions, to alleviate dire poverty, promote reconstruction, & help in the re-formation of a state. Failure to do so could result in Syria descending into the total anarchy of a failed state:
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RevRick:
Exactly. Our reaction should be the same as the base’s reaction was to the first debate: Screw that guy, we’re not going down without a fight, all of us.
Is our Almost Top 10000 Blog gonna do it alone? Nope. But some of us do form the broad base of the Dem Party, warts and all, are dusting ourselves off and going at it again. Just one part in the cog.
And yes, what lowtechcyclist said in #71
tobie
@Suzanne: I don’t have a dog in this fight but I continue to be amazed at how much progressives believe that if we only ran an unabashedly leftwing campaign, we would win. Omar, Jayapal, Sanders, AOC, etc all performed worse than Harris in their respective races. I don’t know what works with voters, but I don’t trust any politician who claims to know what the people want. Thats a step toward demagoguery IMO.
zhena gogolia
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Okay, here’s an example of why this doesn’t work. We met friends for dinner the other night. The first thing out of their mouths was how disappointed they were in Biden for pardoning Hunter. I responded vigorously. It cast a pall over the whole evening. They don’t want to hear us defend our own.
The Audacity of Krope
You attribute a power to the left which is just seemingly not there. I’d consider myself on “the left” but I have a pretty good grip on what is politically feasible in terms of balance of power in Congress, the states, the President, et c.
That there are still problems is an objective fact. And it always will be. The media is responsible for the way it abused this fact. And the left is certainly not in charge of any of these media orgs.
That random individuals are cherry picked off the internet and their arguments that happen to agree with what the media already wants to sell isn’t those individuals’ fault.
Those cherries are picked from the right and center just as much as the left, the difference is you never get a sincere, good-faith view of the left in mainstream orgs.
It’s just abuse by the media. Blaming the left is like blaming the rowdy group of students in the corner for the bad cafeteria menu.
Fake Irishman
@lowtechcyclist:
See comment #8. Can we please not pivot to saying how Democrats are inadequate in a thread about how Democrats are actually pretty good.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@zhena gogolia:
Then *they* should have STFU. If they want a conversation and bring up a topic where they don’t like the other side of the conversation, too bad.
Sigh, yeah, I know, I know, easier to type than to do in real life. I think all of us (raises hand) have become too passive in these situations. I mean I have friends who do not share my political views but we don’t let our politics define our relationship.
Which means they have the wisdom to not bring that crap into the relationship in the first place.
The main point I think people like me and RevRick make is working around the passivity.
Fake Irishman
@glory b:
I agree with this, but it’s not just lefties who slag Biden in our party.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: Meh. Proud of you. They were wrong. They brought the pall. Good for you for standing up.
We are all going to have to do that.
The Audacity of Krope
@Fake Irishman: Biden and Harris are pretty good, not great but pretty good. Some other Dems. But the overall party’s reputation is dogshit to me right now.
Fake Irishman
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Also, there’s a very wide range of of views among folks, no matter who they voted for. Don’t try to engage hard-core trumpers, but a lot of others probably a very worth engaging.
it’s exhausting of course, but we need a winning coalition.
glory b
@Suzanne: Hasn’t that always been our brand?
What elected Dems aren’t embracing that?
Suzanne
@tobie:
Yeah, I know. I am probably more of a fan than most people here of all of those people, but I do not delude myself that their politics are popular. But progressives hang out around people like them — as we all do — and assume that people have similar values. They do not.
Most people —normal people — are not ideological at all. They couldn’t tell you a right-wing policy from a left-wing policy. They probably would support some mix of policy that would surprise us all. Most people make choices based on vibes, aspirations, feeling seen, feeling known and reflected.
But this is why I think shaping a worldview is so important. Think of it as all the work that has to happen before a campaign, just to make the fertilize the soil, you know? Entertainment content, social media, etc….. it shapes a worldview for people. It puts a frame on reality.
artem1s
@lowtechcyclist:
Rove had hardly gotten started painting all Demoncrats as evil for Bill’s second term. But they were well on their way to paying for misinformation campaigns RE: Vince Foster and Paula Jones and everyone else Killary did in.
Since 2000 the GOP misinformation machine has steadily made even Democrats disown the most liberal/progressive/inclusive administration – the ONLY peacetime expansion since WWII – as ‘neoliberal’ shills who only helped the rich. And Dems lined up to take a hit a Hillary and Bill to prove they were on team GOP when it came to bashing Clinton for not being a DC insider and too wonky and making the DC Press corp listen to boring press conferences about policy.
And the battering continued for another 8 years just to make sure all the yutes and women knew what a corporate sell out Killary was and how Clenis was coming for your daughters and putting teh gheys in the military and ruining that too.
And Dems happily piled on – including Gore who probably submarined his own campaign by disavowing everything Dems accomplished during HIS VP tenure.
It took Rove and the GOP about 16 years to completely destroy the Clinton legacy to the point no one will give him credit for building the foundation that Obama used to get more civil rights for women and POC and LGBTQ and getting ACA passed. Forget that his administration brokered the deal that finally brought peace to the Balkans and put Milosevic in the dock at the Hague.
And Dems happily piled on to memory holed every accomplishment every chance they got.
Suzanne
@glory b: I guarantee you, that if you went out on the street and asked 100 people “what does the Democratic Party and its politicians stand for?”…… 50% of people would not have any answer for you at all. Literally no idea of animating values. 25% of people would say right-wing shit like “handouts for lazy people”.
That’s the first hurdle. Putting an idea in the minds of that 50%.
glory b
@Fake Irishman: As Salad Shooter said on Bluesky: “A coalition is based on reciprocity and there comes a time when you can only be betrayed so much. If Arabs, Asians and Hispanics hate women, black people and gays so much, I’m not sure why I should sympathize when the white men they sucked up to fuck them over.”
Let’s include unions in there too.
Captain C
@different-church-lady: And also nearly 200 stories in the FTFNYT.
In one week.
(When I am god-emperor of the USA I will confiscate the FTFNYT from the Pinch the Lesser family and put it under the control of a nonprofit dedicated to good news coverage, probably run by ProPublica/TPM types. This is reason number X why I should probably not be given this position, even if this particular idea with this particular infotainment paper/games company is a good one.)
glory b
@Suzanne: No, they’d think (but not say), it’s the party with the black people in it.
I’ll bet lots of black voters wouldn’t stand there dumbfounded. I wonder why we know & no one else does?
I wonder why Dems haven’t won the white vote since LBJ signed the Civil Rights & Voting Rights Acts?
Baud
@glory b:
A majority of Asians and Hispanics are still with us FWIW.
Suzanne
@glory b:
I’d be willing to bet that strong ties to the black church are a strong part of that. White right-wing evangelicals also hear a lot about politics at church. But white people who don’t go to church (and that’s a lot), or white people who attend mainline churches or most Catholic parishes probably don’t hear about political values at church at all. Catholics will hear about abortion and nothing else.
But this is really a version of the point I’m making, which is that most people don’t seek out political information or content. They come across it — or they don’t — in the course of other activities, or other media consumption. That is what we are so bad at.
glory b
@Baud: So far, let’s hope for the best I guess.
I recall reading that most Muslims were Republicans (based on taxes) before 9/11, then went to the Democratic party.
Maybe they’re just going back to their roots.
Mr. Bemused Senior
I completely agree. Do you have a suggestion for steps to take? I mean realistic [specific] actions.
UncleEbeneezer
@RevRick: I think Kamala’s campaign period was a great example. Even here, people were very enthusiastic and leaning into the positives. The energy was infectious. I think with a little more time to spread it to normie voters and she would’ve won. Unfortunately we needed to be in that cheering/+energy mode back when Biden was being relentlessly bashed for Student Loans, BBB, Afghanistan, Gaza etc. And we need to be in that mode more generally. The Democratic brand would be in much better shape if we didn’t spend 4 years trashing the best President of my lifetime. Unfortunately, we have a contingent of people in our coalition who are very loud and influential who only can talk shit about Dems. They started trashing Biden the moment he took office, nay, the moment he won the 2020 primary and never stopped until he bowed out, accelerating their bullshit as we got closer and closer to the election. I know a lot of the focus has been on July and the push for him to step down, but the problem was really that they were so effective in creating a bad vibe around him long before that. Too many people just refuse to cheer for our side except at the last minute, provided they get a perfect candidate that they approve of (Kamala). Then they revert right back to shitting on the Party, our candidates and the whole Democratic project, as we are seeing right now. Even the worst Dem is exponentially better than the best Rep. But too many people on our side will only obsess over and emphasize “the worst Dem” part, in how they speak/write. I remember when Biden won the primary and a friend of mine who hates Republicans and only votes Dem were talking about it and she said “I’m so bummed. Like just another old white man.” I pointed out all his positives as VP for Obama, the fact that Black Voters supported him (and white people would be more comfortable with him too), his foreign policy knowledge, knowledge of how to work Congress, his good heart and all of that in contrast to the absolute monster of Trump. She acknowledged all of that but just couldn’t feel any joy or excitement because even before taking the oath of office Biden already wasn’t enough. That mindset, right there, and how widespread/common it is, is our mortal enemy. That’s what we need to figure out how to solve. I don’t know how we can do that. But I’m pretty sure that reverting to “OMG Dems suck” and other glass-half-empty perspectives about Dems doesn’t help, or more accurately, is a huge part of the problem.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Here I also agree. I have no idea what to do about it, alas
Suzanne
@Mr. Bemused Senior: I think that the Democratic Party needs a long and sustained rebranding effort. I think we (our hired strategists) need to look for places — right now I would say on podcasts and TikTok and YouTubers, but that ground is always shifting — to present this brand in a positive way. And look for a broader range of places to get that message out.
We as individuals can amplify this!
Elizabelle
@Mr. Bemused Senior: and Uncle Ebeneezer: Those types are on the next thread. Shrill strength. Be forewarned.
glory b
@Suzanne: Looking at unions though, Here’s Biden, marching in a picket line.
Here’s Biden, helping resolve labor disputes in ways that favor the rank & file.
Hers’ Biden, saving union pensions.
Here’s union presidents, encouraging their members to vote for Trump.
Here’s union members, voting overwhelmingly for Trump.
Voting just like LBJ said they would.
These people didn’t know what Dems did for them?
Baud
@glory b:
We won union households, although we probably lost union households among the traditional trade unions people think about when they think about unions.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: The spouse of a citizen has to apply for the GC and that usually involves an interview. You have to convince the immigration officer handling your case that all the claims you make are factual and correct. This is to prevent immigration fraud. So the process takes time.The immigration bureacracy is severely understaffed which adds to the wait.
The problem is that most people who talk about immigration reform/immigration have no idea what they are talking about.
And don’t want to listen to people who have actually been through the system.
Suzanne
@glory b: Those people are probably in that 25%. Deciding that whiteness outweighs all other concerns. Those people are gone from the coalition.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: From Turkiye-based Clash Report:
Baud
@Geminid:
Nice. Soon they’ll surpass Texas.
Captain C
@glory b: My guess would be consultants complaining that big donors don’t like that sort of talk.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: And the individual immigration officer may be pro- or anti-immigration. They may be prejudiced for or against certain groups. When my ex and I went for her citizenship interview, it lasted only a few minutes. I don’t know if that was because when had done our paperwork perfectly (being a lawyer and having been in the army, bureaucratic paperwork is no big deal) or because she was a pretty blond coming from Europe.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Omnes Omnibus: my experience is indirect, I have a close friend who married an immigrant. The interview was considerably more hostile than you describe. However, they now live in Boston and have a child.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: FWIW naturalization process is far more easier than the GC application. The Orange Man wants to change that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Like I said, it really depends on the immigration officer.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Oddly enough, her permanent GC was approved the week that she was sworn in as a citizen.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
What, for the Dems to have some sort of continuous political marketing? That’s beyond the realm of possibility??
Just to clarify, what I was saying was that the Republican Party didn’t need to have an ongoing political marketing initiative of their own, because Fox News, Newsmax, etc. etc. had that base well covered. But the existence of all those outfits on the right demonstrates why the Dems need to have some sort of continuous political marketing program of their own, even though the GOP proper doesn’t.
Of course they can’t bring something anywhere near the scale of Fox News, etc. into existence. But they can’t just have nothing at all.
Mr. Bemused Senior
like so many things when it comes to dealing with any large organization. Trump and his cronies will confront this. My guess [and hope] is they won’t handle it well.
UncleEbeneezer
@Elizabelle: Of course they are.
artem1s
all of this is really pretty simple. Look at a picture of the GOP congresses, executive branch, judge nominees, and WH staff for the last 50 years. Dem administrations have women and POC and less visible LGBTQ represented at ever increasing numbers. The GOP is pasty white and predominantly male. And they’ve excelled at making sure their supporters believe Dems are only interested in helping people who don’t look like them.
Since the 1940-50’s with Truman’s desegregation of the military, Dems have always extended the ladder to underrepresented groups and subsequently get punished for it at the voting booth. Sometimes by the groups that have made the most progress. People are selfish. Until you can figure out a way to convince or train a white man that he’s looking at someone like him – that he has commonality with that person who are not the same color or sex he’s going to feel ostracized when the ‘others’ make progress. Remember White community members in Ohio who stood up for their Haitian neighbors? That an example of a white community that has started to identify with someone they normally would feel was not like them.
I know for myself it took a long time to see civil rights or economic gains by one group as benefiting me if I didn’t look like the majority of the people in that group. But after living in a urban area for 30 years, it’s become easier to see those benefits spread out across whole neighborhoods and how ghettoizing even one neighborhood by race can damage the economy of a whole city.
Unfortunately White Flight means we still have way too many homogeneous neighborhoods and communities so opportunities to become familiar with the ‘other’ are almost non-existent. I do believe almost everyone over 30 who went MAGAt is probably not salvageable even if their kids are rejecting them. The trick is to get the kids to understand the value of sharing wealth and what a win/win situation looks like.
Desegregation is only about 50 years old. Being out and proud is only about 30 years old. Most kids still grow up in highly segregated communities. The more diverse we become the more the haters will fight back. Never forget the more extreme the measures are to return to the 1850’s, the more people will be hurt. Extreme measures are now the only way they have of turning back the tide – they are not the majority and know it. They believe they are untouchable but they aren’t. Even as successful as various fascists regimes have been at implementing extreme measures they were all ultimately unsustainable.
The trick is, how to not help the fucking Nazi’s, keep those who are targeted safe and learn to be brave when you are on the cusp of being targeted.
Geminid
@Geminid: It turns out that the Syrian HTS General Command directive had a second paragraph:
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
I agree on both counts. Re Gore, we might’ve started doing something about climate change 20 years ago, rather than two years ago.
Also, I doubt the 9/11 attack would have happened if Gore had won. A focus on-state terrorism in general, and al-Qaeda in particular, was a focus of the Clinton administration, and Gore was very much part of that. Bush and Cheney dropped that partly because they wanted to attack Iraq from the get-go, and partly because anything that was specifically a Clinton thing was something they had to get rid of, for that reason alone. Under Gore, those reports of Arab flight students who weren’t interested in learning how to land a plane would have gone straight up the ladder, and the students nabbed.
And getting wiped out in 2010 put the GOP in charge of redistricting in most states, and that screwed us up throughout that decade. We’re still paying a price for it now in many states.
Elizabelle
@artem1s: Really good comment. Thank you.
Kathleen
@UncleEbeneezer: Biden/Democratic Party = Black People much to the chagrin of a cohort of Democrats, “The Left”, the media and of course the right. Also the media just love Dems who hate Dems so they’re the ones whose signals are boosted in “progressive media” (Cable/online). Must be a lucrative business model.
Kathleen
@glory b: To your point, Sherrod Brown campaigned on all that he had done for unions, working people, etc, and he lost to a guy who stole money from his workers.
tobie
@Suzanne: I agree. This is a problem.
I’d like to think we could come say Dems fight for families, Dems fight for the middle class, Dems fight for “we, the people.” We could point to the party’s many successes: five-day work week, Social Security, Medicare, universal healthcare, overtime pay, quality schools, Americans with Disabilities Act (actually Bush Sr passed that), no more medical bankruptcy, etc.
What do Republicans stand for: child labor, offshoring jobs, lower pay, no security for seniors, etc. Heck, they couldn’t even organize protective gear for healthcare workers during COVID or organize COVID tests. Make their incompetence an anvil around their necks.
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: Clyburn is being pilloried in the next post. But Bernie Sanders making conciliatory noises towards Musk and the Orange One gets zero mention on the frontpages of the Bubble of White Privilege.
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: Sherrod Brown ran away from Biden as did Ryan. It didn’t work well for either of them.
Miss Bianca
Elon Musk, that moon-faced fuck, was in my dreams last night. At least I got to ask a circle of sycophants (my co-workers in the dream, as I recall, anxiously waiting for their lottery tickets to be called for a trip to Mars) whether DOGE should start with its “government efficiency” efforts by cancelling contracts with Space X and Starlink. They all stared at me nervously and would have backed away, I am sure, if we hadn’t been sitting down.
I did *not* get picked for the trip to Mars in what looked like Willie Wonka’s great glass elevator. Schade!
glory b
@Baud: Yeah, I should have specified.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I even linked to an article about that when it was first reported in the comments on one of the threads.
lowtechcyclist
@RevRick:
This here blog IS my social media. I abandoned Xitter a year or two ago when Musk’s antisemitism became too much to handle. And I gave up on Facebook nearly a decade ago due to its way of promoting arguments. I didn’t know about the algorithm then, but I knew I was tired of what I was experiencing there.
tobie
@glory b: @Suzanne: Maybe the best case Dems can make is that Republicans are absolutely incompetent at governing. Showcase their endless failures from Katrina to COVID. Extol Dem successes (record repair and rebuilding of I95 and Key Bridge).
UncleEbeneezer
@artem1s: Great summary. And being Trans and out is probably significantly less than 30 years old. It feels like I only started seeing openly Transgender people on social media, irl and on tv/films in the past 10-15 years. Which is, of course, why the haters are so focussed on demonizing them now and why the Anti-Trans hate campaigns really started ramping up during the Obama years.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
The thing is, the party is already there, we don’t have to will it into being. We don’t have to sell a billionaire on taking on this project. Might as well use the institutions we’ve got, unless they’re either not up to the job, or against the idea altogether.
If, say, the party had a policy of taking a literal tithe of all contributions to the assorted national Dem committees in the last 6 months before each Presidential election or midterm, and asked the same of all Dem candidates for Federal office once they’d won their primaries (maybe exempting those in close races, but that’s always a small fraction), and used it to fund a continuous program marketing the Democratic Party and the things it had achieved and was trying to pass, that would be real money. Not Fox News-level money, but nine figures anyway.
glory b
@Suzanne: Example, a poll of Harris policies indicates a good sized majority approved of them & would vote for a candidate proposing them.
Then again, a majority of voters also approved of the Affordable Care Act but disapproved when the same policies were referred to as Obamacare.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Not sure if campaign finance laws permit that.
Miss Bianca
@The Audacity of Krope: Start bitching about the fact that Harris lost? Just a wild-ass guess. As in, “People who refused to vote for the Democrats now upset that Democrats lost.”
Miss Bianca
@catclub:
That’s my suspicion.
The Audacity of Krope
@Miss Bianca: They didn’t vote. What makes you think they care about Harris losing?
People complaining Biden was too old were an ungettable group and Democrats were way too thirsty for some love from them.
Gloria DryGarden
@Elizabelle: it’s like the country us in hospice…
Mr. Bemused Senior
This is disturbingly close to the bone. Having faced this myself I can only say, try to give others room to cope with grief.
Lyrebird
@Fake Irishman: Hear, hear!
Thank you Anne Laurie!
For the great important stuff that should be getting more notice, and for the never-punching-down schadenfreude that helps me keep going. That “Razzlekhan” will actually face consequences for her criming made my day the other day. Yes I am petty.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
I’m sure they do. I can give to Dem orgs like the DNC, and I can give to candidates. If they tell me upfront that out of every dollar I donate, it’ll be split with 90¢ to the named candidate or org, and 10¢ to this other Dem org, that should be totally legit. Just like these donation requests I get where half of it is supposed to go to the candidate, and the other half to something called Blue Amp.
sab
@glory b: I used to temp for a CPA who gave financial advice to his clients, and was so surprised when his sister-in-law went out on disability and had to wait two years for medicare. Those had been the rules since forever.
RWNJs are idiots in addition to their other faults.
He wasn’t a MAGA. Just an out of touch very churchy guy. His wife couldn’t drive on highways. Rural folks trapped in our small city.
lowtechcyclist
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m sorry that it upsets you that apples and oranges sometimes get treated differently for reasons other than their color.
emjayay
It’s not clear whether Andrew Bates wrote the quote or if it is a quotation from another source. But some writer needs to learn the difference between its and it’s.
Quinerly
@lowtechcyclist:
Excellent observation.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I wonder what would happen if we split up the billion or so bucks donated this campaign cycle, let’s say $250m/year so my math-challenged brain can deal with it, and spend that each year on a coordinated campaign for Dems? Call it wtf you want to call it but start the 24/7/365/50-state-presence effort.
Instead of the insane hoovering dollars every election season, then watch the apparatus go back into hiatus.
$250m/year sets up a lot of messaging/outreach/whatever possibilities.
Ryan
But mah eggs! Seriously, didn’t the Senate just make a deal to approve a dozen or so district judges in exchange for not confirming a few appeals court judges? I mean, why are we making deals when we’re in the majority. Ah, but I forget, Sinema and Manchin, can’t forget them soon enough.
Gloria DryGarden
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
“This is disturbingly close to the bone. Having faced this myself I can only say, try to give others room to cope with grief.”
Noted
perhaps you think I’m not.. giving room. I’ll look into it.