Does anyone remember who said that, and when and why?
I keep wondering why we have apparently forgotten that really important lesson. And modeling – that’s a quote from someone who had plenty of reason to be unhappy with the current situation they were in – yet still able to keep an eye on the big picture.
Marmot
That’s my attitude. Thanks for the reminder, WG.
Edit: Firstest = worstest?
Quite the opposite.
Baud
I don’t remember a time when our side’s rocks were exclusively for Republicans, except in the few months before an election. It sucks, but I don’t see any will or ability to change it.
Marmot
@Baud: Our side needs reminders. And more parties and BBQs and such.
Edit: What the heck is going on? When I try to comment lately, it nearly always fails on the first try, I hit “back,” retry, and it succeeds.
Baud
@Marmot:
True. The stomach is the route to the heart, as they say.
trollhattan
I’d model but have learned my ankles are too large.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I haven’t read the the previous thread but one wonders why Elon hitched his wagon to a party that wants to cut government spending, which threatens SpaceX funding, and drill baby drill which isn’t good for Tesla, and wants to eliminate immigration when both those enterprises depend on H1B visa programs.
It’s almost like he’s not the jeenius he’s made out to be. At best he’s an example of someone that’s brilliant in one area and no better than average at anything else and possibly a functional moron in multiple areas.
KatKapCC
Pretty sure it was Elizabeth Warren, though I can’t recall when or what context.
Suzanne
Remembering who the real enemy is is an incredibly difficult thing for our side. Not sure why. We’d do well to remember it.
Marmot
@Baud: For dead certain. And it’s a hell of a lot harder to be a jerkwad to somebody in person than online.
That’s crossed my mind a lot lately, since I ran across some assertion that online communities are too just as real as in-person, says research. Driving in L.A. versus walking through a New York crowd—when everyone can see each other’s faces, ya just make nicer.
TBone
Pooty laughs while we fracture.
Bupalos
I guess that’s a “let’s not overly examine ourselves, let’s focus on our enemy” kind of thing. Which… to me this seems like basically the wrong time for that sentiment. Although in algorithmic internet community terms, it’s never the wrong time for that.
Timill
Elizabeth Warren, quoted in emptywheel, July 2011
TBone
Reposting this important read. Practice, practice, practice, but not on those on your own team!
3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2025/01/stand-out-how-to-prevent-obeying-in-advance.html
Marmot
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: And don’t forget how much reactionary hatred Trumpers have for vehicle emission standards! Oh, and electric car purchase incentives!
And like … non-incandescent bulbs and non-gas stoves. So much for the honor and dignity of standing athwart the tracks of history screaming “stop!”
trollhattan
Bromance heads for shoals, can bashing upon the rocks be far behind?
As per usual, root for injuries.
Betty Cracker
I’m reading Ina Garten’s “Be Ready When the Luck Happens.” She half-jokingly says she wishes there were a national program where everyone was required to work in retail for a year, sort of like a mandatory military service.
She says it would give people an opportunity to learn 1) customer service jobs are HARD, and 2) it’s easier to solve problems if you’re pleasant and respectful instead of acting like a dick. (I’m paraphrasing!)
Martin
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Or he understands that Trump is a purely transactional individual and Musk, having a lot to transact, can exploit that in a way that he can’t do with any other politician.
TBone
@Marmot: net neutrality is dead.
KatKapCC
@trollhattan:
Quoting (with a name change) Garth from Wayne’s World:
TBone
@Betty Cracker: she is such a mensch! I remember her huge glass of wine after the 2016 election. So big!
Reminds me about this plot storyline
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_Big_(1932_film)
WaterGirl
@Timill: Yep. i watched her say it to Stephen Colbert after it had been made clear that she was not going to get to head up the agency she had dreamed up and then created.
Warren had plenty of reason to be unhappy, and if memory serves, Colbert had just tried to get her to express how unhappy she must be with Barack Obama because of that.
“I’m saving the rocks in my pocket for the Republicans” was her reply.
We have less than 2 years before the next election, and regardless of how satisfying it apparently is for some to stew in what could have been or should have been, reality always wins.
We don’t have time for the circular firing squad. Not out there among the mucky mucks, and not here on Balloon Juice. All it does is reduce the number of allies, and we need every ally we can get.
Eyes on the prize.
Bupalos
@Marmot: electric car uptake is largely floundering because of our own infrastructure failures. The IRA is a serious looking piece of legislation that either is not being implemented seriously or is evidence that the bureaucratic state is indeed reaching a crisis point.
Elon Musk is largely a world-historical buffoon. He and his company built a charging network (partly with public money) that still easily outpaces the best efforts of the haphazard regulatory-capture, hidebound, public-private partnership claptrap.
We’ll never defeat these clowns without owning up to our own weaknesses and fixing them.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker:
Totally nodding in agreement.
I put myself through college working as a grocery store cashier.
Starfish (she/her)
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: He doesn’t want to “cut government spending.” He wants to “pay less in taxes” AND make bank off of government contracts given to corrupt contractors.
TBone
Quoting myself from earlier
Chris
Sounds like something Gavroche would say, if he was American in the twenty-first century. (Or French in the twenty-first century, for that matter).
Harrison Wesley
@Betty Cracker: Pleasant and respectful? But it’s so much more fun to act like a dick.
Mart
@TBone: Such a quiet death. Best not to speak of it in public.
Jeffg166
@Betty Cracker:
I lasted two weeks in retail at Christmas time in 1970. The public was nuts then. Now they shoot first.
Bupalos
@Martin: I’m generally of your mind on Elmo and think many people on our side make the mistake of discounting and denying his strengths in light of his spectacular weaknesses.
But it is worth noting (if you haven’t followed the pathetic sock puppetry he’s been doing lately) that he looks to currently be in a kind of full-blown narcissistic meltdown that might make the usual anti-muskery that goes on here more trenchant.
Dude is a fucking mess, and it’s a little shocking that this degree of meltdown in one of the most powerful people on the planet isn’t getting more media attention.
The Audacity of Krope
It doesn’t help to run your
dog’sDemocrat’s nose initspee spotthe consequences of their actions. They don’t even have a concept to understand the message.PaulWartenberg
Elon is not allying with a Republican Party that’s threatening to make massive spending cuts.
Because he knows the Republicans won’t cut the billions in defense spending that Elon thrives on.
Elon’s allying with a Republican Party that will grant him a massive tax cut on the billions he already doesn’t pay taxes on, as well as ensuring a cheap labor market by gutting union protections and handing him more indentured (slave) workers.
The Audacity of Krope
She should have remembered that in July. She was part of the donor putsch.
Kay
I commented on a TikTok MAGA account that is dedicated to how Donald Trump is in danger from Democrats that “you’ll be fine, try not to smear your own feces on a national historic building this time”
51 responses – in seconds
This cant be good for me – it’s too much fun and it’s just a matter of time before China bans me
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: I bet that was a trip! I was a server at Pizza Hut. Probably learned more doing that than I did in my classes.
@Kay: LOL! Please keep us updated on these activities. It’s vicariously enjoyable.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Betty Cracker:
A former regular in Cheers & Jeers over at Daily Kos once said this years ago:
sentient ai from the future
@Starfish (she/her): let’s simplify that equation.
let’s see, carry the five…scale for inflation…cross-multiply…divide by “egomaniac dipshit”….
okay, that expression simplifies to “loot the treasury”
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Remember when Trump et al accused Harris of lying about working in McDonald’s? Those were simpler times.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@The Audacity of Krope:
Precisely that or simple willful non-understanding. The one’s mewling loudest about this are also the ones promoting policies that have great negative consequences to a core of the party. And when we criticize them for disingenuous messaging on a good day and outright lies on another, it’s “don’t be so pure”.
That same tact was taken during the Heave Biden efforts, ie., let’s not talk policy or details until *after* the election because many of those same people were part of the Tonya Harding Dems crowd. Okay, many of us STFU seeing it was important to to get Harris over the finish line.
Now that we’re done with that, and lost, many of us who are lifelong *Democrats* aren’t going to be quiet about strategy and policy direction going forward.
The Audacity of Krope
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Democrats apply mass shooting rules to their own bad decisions.
Immediate aftermath: It’s too soon to politicize a tragedy. People are hurting.
A week later: We have an election to look forward to. We can’t upset anyone.
After the election: It’s over and done with. Time to look forward.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
CHINA! That’s translated to wingnut.
They are ON the Chinese app telling each other China is attacking us.
Is this our defense force? My God, we’re doomed. They’re blabbing all their strategy!
currants
@TBone: @Betty Cracker:
OMG and the COVID Cosmo? That was the funniest damn thing ever…
Ruckus
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:
and possibly a functional moron in multiple areas.
I’d call it far more than a possibility. I’ll go with actual. He has the money makes me great, smart and above everyone else. But his problem is that the mirrors in his house must be funhouse mirrors, that make everything look great when that is absolutely not the case.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Kamala Harris tried that. You see what that got her. :-)
currants
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’d add low-end restaurant server to that list, or even worse, cocktail waitstaff. UGH. Retail was almost pleasant, relatively speaking.
Professor Bigfoot
@TBone: Yep. He’s achieved the greatest coup in the history of the Russian intelligence services going all the way back to when they were the Cheka.
Since he was trained as a Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti spook… you’re right, he’s just chuckling away.
Miss Bianca
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Yeah, those of us who *were* lifelong Democrats before July 24 aren’t going to be quiet about it either. I hope.//
The Audacity of Krope
@Miss Bianca: Nor we independents who loyally voted for Democrats. So far…
Betty Cracker
@currants: Ina Garten is a treasure.
Someone asked Samantha Bee whom she would choose to represent earth if there were an alien visitor. Bee said she’d send Ina. Good choice!
Alce _e_ardillo
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Bingo.
The Audacity of Krope
Preserving the legacy of colonialism and the aristocratic power of capital trumps all.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
As I’m sure you well know, some people seem to be incapable of learning anything after elementary school. And some are incapable past the middle of elementary school. And some must have been dropped on their heads as they came out. In my generation (OLD) many people were seemingly not interested in much more than getting through the day and drinking/smoking pot. I doubt that it’s changed much in my 3/4 of a century
This concept didn’t change when I was in the military, many had all the ability of a broom. Not to operate it, to be one.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: Do I recall correctly that you said in 2016 or 2020 that you aren’t a Democrat, and that you said it again recently?
When I played volleyball, we learned not to listen to the other team when you were going for a ball and the other team yelled that it was in or out
edit: I see from a comment above that you are identifying as an Independent. Same point, though, if you’re not on the team, it’s likely that goals aren’t aligned.
WaterGirl
@currants: I tended bar for a year after grad school, when my mom was dying. I didn’t want to be starting my first real job with that going on, and driving back and forth to Chicago all the time.
I mostly loved it at the time, but that job was a real eye-opener.
The Audacity of Krope
@WaterGirl: Well, I have been loyally supporting Democrats nearly my entire voting life. This course you are pushing is precisely why I’m growing to regret that choice.
ETA: I’m a socialist. Democrats are capitalists. I have been voting for Democrats because they hadn’t been engaging in (intense) bigotry and because they dealt with reality, not fantasy.
Big name Democrats shredded the former this year. You are actively shredding the latter right now.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: Then you and I are likely to be at odds over the next couple of years. Because the approach you are pushing does not lead to any kind of victory for us in 2026.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: Your “Yet.” is very telling.
If you can’t look at the world as it is after Nov 5 and you’re not working for a win for the people who want equality and human rights for everyone, I can’t respect your views.
The Audacity of Krope
@WaterGirl: So I should just stay quiet as Mistermix posts another bigoted screed about Democrats picking someone tooo oooooolllllddddd for a leadership position while you insist July was only about this one election.
The bigoted (MM) and the blind (WG), the intellectual base of the Democratic Party.
narya
@Betty Cracker: I’ve reached a point where I don’t entirely trust anyone who hasn’t worked a shit job at some point in their life–retail, restaurant work (front OR back of the house), construction, whatever–and who needed that job to pay the bills. (That is, making copies at dad’s friend’s law firm doesn’t count.)
The Audacity of Krope
As long as we aren’t talking about old folk or Palestinians. Amirite?
TBone
@Mart: hahaha FUCK!
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@PaulWartenberg: I mean, what’s the point of slave wage workers of there’s no market for your product? The company goes broke like 6 months later than it otherwise would have? Not much of a long term strategy.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
In boot camp in the navy we had work week. Many different types of jobs, working in the chow hall – not fun. Working in the laundry area. Everyone in a company – 80 people had to put their laundry in a huge bag and it was carried by 8-10 guys to the laundry and then they brought the prior one back. The entire bag was put in a huge washing machine and then dryer. Good times…… This was during Vietnam so there were a lot of guys, likely 300-400 per week for 10 weeks. And no I’m not kidding.
TBone
@sentient ai from the future: 🎯
TBone
@currants: 💜
Scout211
@The Audacity of Krope: Your personal attacks on front pagers and commenters who disagree with you is really uncalled for. Disagree with opinions and points of view but personal attacks and name-calling is not cool.
ETA: if I was a front- pager, I’d give you a time out. I know you can do better, Krope. You have a long history here. Please do better.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: and Tulsi will sell us ALL down the river every gatdamn day!
The Audacity of Krope
@Scout211: Fun fact. About a week ago, Watergirl went out of her way to say she didn’t trust my comment criticizing some right winger. I think Bari Weiss. Her word choice wasn’t exactly polite.
She didn’t Google it. She went out of her way to directly personally insult me.
My comment was then corroborated by several others.
Here, she is pushing a line of willful blindness. This is more harmful than any criticism could ever be.
Clap harder, Democrats. I’m out of here for good this time. Good luck with Tinkerbell.
jowriter
@Suzanne: I commented way late in the last thread on this topic, but some will never learn. Purity is, I think, adjacent to death or something close to that.
TBone
Remember your Kurt Vonnegut
inthesetimes.com/article/i-love-you-madame-librarian
Scout211
@The Audacity of Krope: Not agreeing with you or not trusting your source is NOT the same as calling someone a “bigot” or “blind.”
If you don’t know the difference, I feel sad for you.
Suzanne
@jowriter: I agree with you. I know that I feel really passionately about some of my viewpoints, which are of course informed by my experiences. And others have different experiences and may have different viewpoints, which differ from mine. I would like to think that we could agree on values, if not necessarily tactics, and extend one another good faith.
Making the perfect the enemy of the good is ultimately a losing strategy, which is why our opponents don’t do it.
As WaterGirl put it the other day….. we’re grieving with sharp elbows around here.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@TBone: great reminder, thanks. Never tangle with a librarian. 😁
TBone
Circular Floyd
m.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGXnSdVwCY
The Audacity of Krope
@Scout211: Last post to reemphasize. I don’t remember the exact phrasing. She insulted me. Directly. With her word choice.
Also her neglect to simply check herself shows that she didn’t even care.
I don’t agree with your opinions isn’t the same thing as you aren’t a reliable source of fact, or hadn’t you noticed? I feel sorry for you.
And Mistermix is pushing a regular line of bigotry now. Right on the front page. None of you should accept that. .
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: You’re here on Balloon Juice commenting, and you’re obviously expressing your views.
I’m just saying that it looks like we will be butting heads.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
I have never said that.
What I do say is that we have less than 2 years before the next regular election, and it’s now been over 2 months since the last one.
That doesn’t give us a lot of time to get to work at winning the next regular election in 2026.
So yeah, having the same conversations over and over for 2 months – and now we’re into the third month – is not the way to win elections.
TBone
@Mr. Bemused Senior: also too
gutenberg.org/files/3251/3251-h/3251-h.htm
Let us not live in Hadleyburg
Martin
@Bupalos: Yeah, I agree. His trans daughter disowned him and instead of any other normal human who just kicks their dog and yells at the woman at the DMV, when you have hundreds of billions of dollars, you can take the whole planet on that journey.
But also when you become a billionaire and keep going, you kind of answer the question of ‘when will it be enough’, and the answer is ‘never’.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
Are you confusing me with someone else? I am not the one suggesting that we put the old folks out on ice floes. And I challenge you to try to find a post or a comment from me where I am not on the side of the Palestinians.
There is no perfect party. What is happening in Ukraine and to the Palestinians is a horror, and we should have done so much more. And better.
But we get to choose between the parties we have, not the parties we wish we had. And overall, the Democratic party is pretty good. And they are 100x better than the Republican party.
That’s the choice.
THERE IS NO PERFECT PARTY.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: Did you read Elmo’s tweet “my tolerance for ketamine is unlimited”?!
Dude is…. utterly broken.
WaterGirl
@TBone: That’s 3 comments with just emojis in just the posts I have seen this morning.
Maybe it’s a good time for a reminder about emojis?
TBone
I thought we were saving our rocks for the important stuff.
Harrison Wesley
@Suzanne: I think of it as tag-team vituperation. I don’t like participating either IRL or online.
MagdaInBlack
JFC
Suzanne
@Harrison Wesley: I agree. We’re here to talk about ideas, not one another.
mrmoshpotato
@MagdaInBlack: JFC it’s COLD outside?
MagdaInBlack
@mrmoshpotato: Among other things, yes.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
In the past few weeks, I did say something along the lines that your recent comments on Balloon Juice have shocked / surprised / disappointed me, and that because of that I wasn’t going to accept your take on whatever it was at face value, the way I would have with a comment from you in the past.
You have been a valued commenter here for as long as I can remember. You seem decidedly different recently from who you have been for all these years, and it was, and continues to be, shocking to me.
That’s what I was saying then.
What I am saying now is that we have two parties. One of them is imperfect and the other is a dumpster fire that wants to take away basic human rights. I know which side I’m on, fighting for the imperfect party to win.
If we don’t win the House or the Senate in 2026, I am not optimistic about our collective future.
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: This is just immature moralizing.
You can have an opinion that worrying about political domination by the 65+ generation is just “bigotry,” you’re welcome to that opinion. Others will have a different view. Make common cause with them or not, that is politics. Doing this dumb thing about “respect” and the names for your political identity and these simplified moral absolutes on complex questions of governance is pure internet brain.
mrmoshpotato
@MagdaInBlack: Yup, and I wanna run to Aldi.
Shakti
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Most probably: I think he just lives off the residual fuck you money from his first company and PayPal and who knows if the other companies he directly runs make profits. It’s the compound interest of (one or two successes). It probably doesn’t matter in real terms to him financially if Tesla and SpaceX autodrive into the ground. Nobody who needed to make money off Twitter would’ve made any of Musk’s decisions.
As for Trump: Musk can rattle immigration reform over his H1-B visa workforce, and the threat of a functioning regulatory agencies under Harris administration would’ve been much more of a problem for him. He has quite a few safety issues with Tesla and SpaceX and labor issues with his workforce including whistleblowers and discrimination lawsuits.
He assumed he can blandish money/bend his way out of pesky things like cutting government spending for SpaceX.
Whether he’s right about his assumptions is another thing.
I wish peace and safety for Vivian Wilson because having a deeply weirdgarbage rich influential narcissist for a father is quite a life sentence. God help any of the other mini mes if they decide to be anything than what Musk wants.
Martin
@Bupalos: I think it’s a combination of factors:
*This is an adequate criticism of why the US economy sucks. Nothing in the US economy is designed to benefit consumers any longer. Everything is designed to benefit investors. Democrats aren’t materially better at fixing this than Republicans are, so it’s not something they can campaign on. Biden was the one who blocked us from having cheaper EVs, and compensated for it with taxpayer dollars for expensive EVs.
Omnes Omnibus
Did everyone decide to bring out their worst selves today? WTAF?
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Why don’t you suggest that he calm down? That’ll be helpful.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m always my worst self.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Maybe it’s also your best self.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks, man. That means a lot.
schrodingers_cat
Is me saying
Throwing a rock at other Ds. Because I don’t see it that way. I won’t say this in a MAGA forum, to any MAGA handle. I say this because I have hope that some of the othering is inadvertent
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Um… Sure, I guess.
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: Ya made me laugh.
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: I, for one, feel like WE DID THAT before November 5.
Speaking STRICTLY for myself… I’m gonna sit back and see how the white dudes do.
Oh, I’ll still be a Democrat— in fact, just got my DNC membership card in the mail yesterday— but y’know, I’m at let the white dudes handle it.
WHICHEVER white dude becomes the next DNC chair.
Geminid
@Bupalos: The IRA as a whole is being implemented seriously. Maybe some of the consumer incentives havent been, or not quickly enough, but those are only a small part of the IRA.
As for electric vehicles, the IRA mainly incentivizes the manufacturing side. Consumer demand is the main problem and that is conditioned by factors outside the scope of the IRA.
BlueGuitarist
Thanks WG. Appreciate the post title and intent.
Folks may have missed a comment Redshift posted in the late night thread (bold added):
Final day for Virginia special elections: Tuesday, Jan. 7.
Special elections scheduled include:
Black Hawk County (Iowa) supervisor, January 28:
Kamala carried the county by 1 percentage point
but we (i.e., Democrats) lost
a Cedar Falls-based state senate seat by 1 point
and a Waterloo at-large election as well.
Big election April 1 for Wisconsin State Supreme Court.
Eyes….
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus:
@Baud:
“Every day…in every way…I’m getting WORSE and WORSE.”
BlueGuitarist
@Professor Bigfoot:
Have you considered running for Ohio House of Representatives?
Noticed your comment the other day about your district being gerrymandered, but it seems (from afar) that it looks weird because of the weird Canton boundaries; and OH-H-49 is winnable, among the best D opportunities.
You’d have a good fundraising + online activist base here!
WaterGirl
@Professor Bigfoot: It’s not the politicians who bring the wins. It’s the people and organizations that work their asses off organizing and getting out the vote.
Bupalos
@Geminid: Consumer demand is being restricted largely by charging infrastructure. The IRA has a lot of money for charging infrastructure buildout. A fair amount of that money is flowing and the buildout is basically just not happening.
one of the things I’ve noticed is dealerships “upgrading” their existing slow stations that no one uses, and which maybe were free, to faster pay stations that no one uses and which are even on proprietary weird networks. I think they’re collecting IRA cash to build them, in out of the way places, probably near the purchasers home, as a kind of sales incentive.
whatever is happening the overall public charging network is basically getting no better despite big investments.
And the implementation of electrify America and HEEHRA rebates is simply embarrassing. Well over a year past the outer edge of what was promised at time of passage which itself was embarrassing. This is exactly what makes people just give up on the idea of government doing stuff. It’s just a rebate. It could have been two pages added to IRS code, done in a week or even retrospectively. Instead it’s bureaucratic vaporware probably sucking up MORE resources through never ending rule writing, compliance, contractor approval. And the contractors will suck up the benefit through higher prices that in some sense is justified because they spend a lot of resources themselves on pointless compliance.
we need to get honest about this stuff, government paralysis is how and why fascists thrive.
Professor Bigfoot
@BlueGuitarist: Though I appreciate the compliment(I really do!), the skeletons in my closet are currently at regimental strength and they continue to recruit more. 😉
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: Well, I hope the white folks are up to it.
We did our damnedest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bupalos
@Martin: I think this is on point. I’m making a specific indictment of governance and you’re expanding it to capitalist capture.
The bottom line for government and institutions is that they are left unable to do the things they are there to do, even when they get past the initial hurdle of political gridlock. No amount of “let’s endlessly discuss how bad Republicans are” can do anything more than further entrench this paralysis.
Geminid
@Bupalos: It was the Infrastructure bill that had $7.5 billion for charging stations. The IRA had some tax credits, also $3 billion for electrifying U.S. Postal Service vehicles.
As for consumer demand, one of the bigger obstacles to EV adoption is the availability of hybrid vehicles and that is not such a bad thing.
Also, I think I am as honest as you about the obstacles to the clean energy transition, and may even be more attentive.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Comments here about EVs and the subject in general I would hope are being made by people who actually own an EV.
In terms of sales, Q4 sales were telling and counter to much of what’s being said here today:
investors.com/news/ev-sales-q4-2024-auto-sales-gm-ford-tesla-toyota-honda-stellantis/
insideevs.com/news/746165/us-ev-sales-trump-bump-2024/
emarketer.com/content/auto-sales-spiked-q4-2024
freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2025/01/03/gm-general-motors-2024-us-sales/77353052007/
finance.yahoo.com/video/ford-ev-sales-surge-38-163926665.html
All of that is a continuation of Q3 EV sales. We hafta wait for Cox Automotive to come out with authoritative sales data later this month for how things shook out overall but it’s clear that EVs ain’t going away. Given GM’s starting to deliver $35K Equinox EVs and by this time next year will have the nextgen Bolt EUV probably at a $30K price, more people will be able to consider getting an EV and discovering it’s probably the best car they’ve ever bought.
Regarding charging infrastructure, the difference a year makes is considerable. When I drove my Bolt EV home from where I purchased it in Central Misery in 2023 and when I made a trip back to KC this past Oct in it, my ability to charge and plan routes was pretty easy. Bear in mind that the Bolt isn’t considered a particularly great “road trip” EV because of all the fast charging EVs, it’s got the oldest tech and slowest fast charge. Somebody doing the same trip in anything else other than a Nissan Leaf won’t have issues.
Tesla’s slowly opening up it’s network and that will continue in 2025 so combined with the monies being plowed into the rest of the DCFC network, it’s only gonna get better.
Bupalos
@Geminid: I’d mostly agree if plug-in hybrid was canibalizing the growth. Is that the case? Regular hybrids are just modest mpg improvements for marginally shorter service lives. Plug-ins will probably be major mpg improvements for marginally shorter service lives.
Anecdotally 4 people I know who considered ev’s in the last year, one got one, three went with always-need-gas models. The main thing seems to be the road-trip/range anxiety thing.
WaterGirl
@Professor Bigfoot:
We all make our own choices.
I worked my ass off last time and I’m not going to shrug and say, “well, I tried, and I’m done now. They can sink or swim on their own this time around”.
Bupalos
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: yeah part of my rant is having driven my daughter back to college (6hr round trip) in the bolt yesterday. And just being pissed that somehow my options were slightly worse than last year and I encountered 2 more “you need this particular different app to charge here”
also the prices are really high. There’s clearly a WAY higher retail markup on OTR ev electricity than there is on gas. It’s just disappointing that with this much public investment this is where we are. EV’s make too much sense to go away, but it feels like this system is actually trying to fight it.
Elon pocketed whatever the difference is between the wholesale electricity price and 42cents/kwh from me.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Bupalos:
Pricing has significantly increased over the last year and believe it or not, Tesla’s pricing isn’t as awful as a lot of EA or EVgo places. But it’s clear as EV sales increase, all that sweet, sweet gubmint money going into expanding the non-Tesla charging network is gonna result in those companies getting free capital, then price gouging the rest of us.
I’m sorry I lapsed into EVSplaining, didn’t know you owned a Bolt. What year? EV or EUV? Are you on the Bolt forum?
chevybolt.org/
Captain C
@Suzanne: I remember when smoking a joint in college was enough to get one disqualified from high office or a position on influence. Now we have a ketamine fiend as one of the incoming fucker’s main advisors.
WTFGhost
Uh… you, Watergirl, right now, as the title of this post.
I’m *good* at these trick questions.
Tim C
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I own a 2020 Bolt, and it *IS* the best car I ever bought. Long range trips take a bit of planning, sure. But I do those maybe twice a year so it’s fine by me.
schrodingers_cat
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: So if I am buying an EV today which is better, Leaf or Bolt?
surfk9
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I am literally sitting in a showroom purchasing an Equinox EV
Tim C.
@schrodingers_cat: unasked for advice. The leaf is cheaper but lacks a way to cook the battery if you live in a place with extremely hot temps.
Chris T.
@Tim C.:
You don’t need a way to cook the battery there, it’s self-cooking. 🤪
(I know, typo for “cool”. Or autocorrect.)
I drive my EV around town and charge at home for cheap, but when I do take longer trips I tend to stop at Electrify America stations now. There are enough of them but there are two issues: (1) half the time, half the units are out of order; and (2) the app doesn’t properly show in-use, nor give you directions when the EA chargers are “around the side behind the shed where you can’t see them” (I have been unable to find the chargers at some unfamiliar locations!).
(Paying $.49+ per kWh is also annoying but since I don’t do it often I don’t mind that much.)