So this happened overnight:
It barely affects me directly. I never post and only sporadically follow a handful of foodies plus a woman who pretends to get revenge on her cheating, disparaging husband by hiding gross things in his food.
But the political fallout promises to be irritating, as TikTok’s message indicates. The rent-seeking frauds and clownish charlatans are ascendent, which sucks, but there’s not a goddamn thing I can do about it. In a sense, that’s freeing.
Open thread.
AM in NC
Yep, the Tech Lords and Media Lords have revealed clearly and unequivocally who they are and what they support.
It is freeing to see the scope of what needs to be defeated/changed. Exhausting, but freeing
ETA: Finally Frist!
satby
And in anticipation, a lot of users moved onto a different Chinese platform, Red Note, and are so taken by the delightful Chinese lifestyle that is being fed to them by the propagandists that it’s really almost funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.
Wonder how much the convict is getting paid for this little show by the Chinese government. It’ll be back up after the show tomorrow, I bet.
Suzanne
This is where I am.
So….. one week ago today, I ran a marathon! First one! (Maybe only one? Haven’t decided.) I didn’t go as fast as I was hoping to go…. but I finished it. I originally set this goal twenty years ago, when I was getting a divorce and GWB was leading us into the worst foreign policy blunder of the age, and I was depressed and needed to get some mojo back. I didn’t do it that year…. but I did it.
different-church-lady
Can we ban the rest if them too?
Dorothy A. Winsor
There’s an Inauguration Watch party in my condo building tomorrow from 11-3. For just a second, I contemplated wandering in and collecting data. But then I came to my senses and realized I’d go mad. So I’m avoiding it.
Jackie
I’m happy my only social media is right here!
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: That’s an amazing accomplishment. (I only run if an ice cream truck is getting away…)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suzanne: Congratulations! That’s a real achievement
different-church-lady
@Dorothy A. Winsor: They mean watch like in “crime watch,” yes?
AM in NC
Also wanted to say that it would be nice to get the legacy media and cable providers on our side in legally reining in online sphere by forcing them to be regarded legally as the publishers that they actually ARE.
It feels like the only victories we get are in battles between one mega industry against another mega industry where our interests happen to occasionally align with one. I say fine – ally with whomever we need to at that moment to frustrate corporate, concentrated power in other areas. Especially in media. We can’t survive much more “purity” if we are going to defeat the fascism, oligarchy, and bigotry of MAGOP.
different-church-lady
@Jackie: This is anti-social media
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: I only holler loudly while waving my arms frantically. LOL
Jackie
@different-church-lady: True dat!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@different-church-lady: I fully expect people to be there in red hats.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: Never let your ice cream truck off the leash.
Professor Bigfoot
Woke up for an early morning trip to the bathroom (this getting old stuff sucks) and saw that the printer was still running… but something was wrong.
So I got dressed and went to work.
Looks like the extruder failed but I’m damned if I can see where or how, it looks like it’s just fine; but damn, to fail somewhere after 10 hours on a 15 hour print is less than optimal.
NotMax
Weekend watchable.
No thanks, I’m suddenly not thirsty.
;)
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot: Just how many pages is that document?
Baud
@Suzanne:
Nice.
AM in NC
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That’s the kind of thing where I’d post a sign on the door and walk away so as not to have to engage. The sign would simply state:
“1/20/25
Price of eggs: (and fill in the prices)
Price of gas:
Price of average house per sq ft in our town:
Price of a pound of ground beef:
Please keep this sign here so we can track and compare prices two years and four years from now.”
Nothing overtly hostile, just pointing out that reality might be different from their MAGA dreams.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
rikyrah
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Avoid at all costs
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
rikyrah
@Suzanne:
Marathon?👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
different-church-lady
@AM in NC: It’s an unfair comparison because two years from now prices will be in rubles.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@AM in NC: Not me! I live with these people.
@rikyrah: You bet
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker: @Dorothy A. Winsor: Thx, y’all! I have been exceedingly stressed about it. I should have picked a fall event rather than a winter event… training has been exceedingly difficult, because the weather has been shit for about a month. Streets and sidewalks in terrible conditions. And when I got to the actual race, it was pretty damn cold…. stood outdoors for almost an hour at 4 AM, so I was considerably stiffer and more shivery than I wanted!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suzanne: I wondered about that. Where was this?
Professor Bigfoot
@different-church-lady: 3D printer. I was printing a new “Gridfinity” toolbox that should have taken about a quarter kilo of filament; but…
Professor Bigfoot
@rikyrah: Good morning!!
SteveinPHX
@Suzanne: That’s fabulous! Congratulations from a former who can no longer run due to physical issues. Wonderful accomplishment!
suzanne
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I did the Disney Marathon event in FL. Then had to spend my recovery days hauling the Spawns around the theme parks! Averaged 8.5 miles on foot on those days! LOL!
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin, y’all.
Betty Cracker
It’s warm here this morning, in the 70s as the swamp gods intended. But my phone is blowing up with severe thunderstorm warnings. Looks like it will tear through quickly but then get cold again. Damn it.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Good morning.
narya
@Suzanne: Woohoo!! That’s awesome! When I first started running (in my late 50s . . .) I contemplated a marathon, then I looked at the training schedule and decided I didn’t like running THAT much. I am definitely in awe of Regular People (as opposed to Olympic types) who run a marathon. It’s a huge time commitment.
Butter Emails!!!
People keep describing this as an own goal by Democrats. It’s more like the Democrats tossing an alley-oop to Trump for an easy slam dunk at the beginning of the 3rd quarter.
Betty Cracker
Just got another even more dire warning to expect 50 mph gusts in the next 15 minutes. The waterfowl have skedaddled, so I believe it!
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
Looks like you’re getting what passed through my neck of the woods yesterday.
Winters in the south kinda suck. One day it’s in the 60s-70s nice, then it’s muggy, then T-storms, then cold as hell, then …
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
AM in NC
@Suzanne: WOW! That is baddass! And I can’t imagine doing the winter training and race. Double Bad Ass!!!!!!!
narya
Speaking of running after ice cream trucks . . . Here’s one of my favorite memories of my dad. When I was little–early 1960s–the ice cream truck that came down our street had a “Beatle” ice cream cone, with chocolate jimmies for the hair and some kinda face on it. I was finally allowed to get one, and promptly dropped it on the sidewalk. I remember my dad running after the truck trying to get me another one. He didn’t succeed, but I remember that effort.
kalakal
@Betty Cracker: Looks like we’ll get that in about an hour or so
Scout211
Since this is an Open Thread, you might be interested in a book review posted this morning on The Guardian.
The title sums up the review for the TL;DR jackals, but it is a satisfying review of the book, which is pretty much a made-up fictional story of the “Biden crime family.”
A snippet:
I feel so bad for poor James Comer. All that work, researching and writing a book in order to sabotage Biden’s second term and now he’s stuck with nothing but bad reviews. Poor guy. //
dww44
@Betty Cracker: woke up to the WC telling me that we’re predicted to get snow on Tuesday and freezing rain and ice will occur in much of North Florida. We’re in for a frigid week here in the Southeast.
sconosciuto
USA: today we’re banning an app we believe is a threat to national security even though we have no proof of this other than our fears
also USA: remember that guy who couldn’t take losing an election fair and square four years ago so he told his worshippers to violently storm the Capitol where they assaulted law enforcement and tried to kill the Vice President? Yeah we are making him president tomorrow and a court gave him the powers of a king 👍
NotMax
@narya
From Beatles to Nitty Gritty Dirt Band in one fell swoop!
Nukular Biskits
@Suzanne:
Congrats
Princess
@Dorothy A. Winsor: If I lived in that condo I might like to know which of my neighbours would attend that.
Or maybe I wouldn’t. Maybe it would be too depressing.
kalakal
@NotMax: That’s an impressive number of jokes/puns in one sentence. Respect
Steve LaBonne
Antisocial media.
Baud
@sconosciuto:
Fixed.
Professor Bigfoot
@Scout211: James Comer Pyle.
”Well SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!”
(with apologies to Jim Nabors’ “Gomer Pyle” who had a huge heart while Comer Pyle has no heart at all. Or brain. And certainly no singing voice.)
Betty Cracker
@Princess: Yes. I know we live among the MAGAs, but it’s better for my mental health if I don’t actively confirm the politics of individuals. My rule is if they bring it up, I address it. It hardly ever happens twice. (There’s one jerk neighbor who’s eaten up with Trump worship and won’t shut up about it, but we haven’t seen him since the flood. I hope he stays gone.)
Kay
@sconosciuto:
Millions of Americans are happily still on X or Meta being fed far Right propaganda by Musk or Zuckerberg yet scolding the TikTokkers about how naive they are. Amusing.
Propaganda is okay as long as its US-based billionaires pushing it.
Professor Bigfoot
@Kay: That’s it right there.
They’re okay with American billionaires exploiting Americans; but not those dirty yellow foreigners!
Yeah, I said it, because there’s a goodly amount of *white supremacy* that informs US foreign policy also.
Another Scott
My assumptions are:
As with Twitter, users will move on from TikTok or not. Life goes on.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: Also I am amused by the idea that I should be worried about the Chinese government knowing my business but A-OK with Zuckerberg knowing it.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I suspect the “national security threat” was TikTok cutting into the Musk/Zuck/Bezos data-hoovering and monetization operation. They want it ALL.
Kay
Good piece on what actually occurred in Denmark when US media and Trump threatened that country :
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2025/01/trump-greenland-crisis-denmark-europe/681371/?gift=hVZeG3M9DnxL4CekrWGK3-Fo9dEMl2OnGCN0ZRdSEeg&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
People in the US saying “this is a distraction” seem to believe the rest of the world doesn’t exist. Not everything is about the US. He threatened them. That’s not a “distraction” from US issues. Its a thuggish, criminal threat issued by the man with the worlds most expansive military to 6 million people who did nothing to us.
Percysowner
I have virtually no social media activity. I check FaceBook to see the doughnuts being offered by the local doughnut shop and the local pet rescues to see what dogs are available. I follow one or 2 people who post on Tumblr. As to TikTok everyone I might follow on it cross post to YouTube, so I didn’t ever go there. I think banning TikTok was an overreaction, but it doesn’t affect me at all.
MomSense
I saw a funny meme on Instagram this morning.
Gen Z upset about TikTok ban for 4.3 seconds, which is the maximum amount of time they can focus on something thanks to TikTok.
Nukular Biskits
@Percysowner:
This is 1 of the problems I have it’s a lot of organizations and businesses Instead of putting up a website, they are on Facebook.
I absolutely hate going to facebook to find out What a business sales what community events are et cetera
Sorry for the crappy formatting and lack of punctuation I’m on the treadmill doing speech to text
But at least I’m not using emojis
Matt McIrvin
There’s an effort in progress to get Facebook/Meta users to log out of all their services for this week. I’m doing that with the intention of, not necessarily deleting my account, but using it very little going forward. Facebook was always irritating, and the main reason to use it was the people and local organizations I know who are there, but if more of them are migrating to other platforms, that advantage goes away.
The public discussion groups are the attractive junk food of the service, but I don’t really want to engage with those any more–the most socially constructive ones are starting to bleed users because of Meta’s obnoxiousness.
Another Scott
@Kay:
This DW.com story indicates that Germany and France aren’t laughing it off. They’re not obeying in advance either.
I’m confident in predicting that Donold won’t get what he says he wants, but I don’t expect this to go away soon either. (Donold’s love affair / threats with the DPRK went on for years.) As I said above, Donold always discounts other power centers and others’ interests.
As always, we’ll see.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
Kids after TikTok.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Lots of small businesses in foreign countries use Facebook too. I guess it’s the least expensive and easiest way to advertise your business.
Chief Oshkosh
@AM in NC:
Price of eggs: Eggland’s Best Eggs Large Grade A, 1 Dozen $2.29 at FoodRite
Price of gas: $2.49/gal for regular gas at BP
Price of MEDIAN house per sq ft in our town: $253
Price of a pound of ground beef: $4.69/lb at FoodRite
Another Scott
@Baud: Classic!
Best wishes,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
There’s a pattern in US foreign relations of: the right gins up a scary threat with some centrist Democratic support, some liberals jump on the bandwagon to do something about it, it all goes to shit and Democrats mostly get the blame, because Republicans are better at memory-holing that they were ever for it, and the left are the only people who give a shit about consistency and principles and are willing to call out their own side.
It’s more or less what happened with Afghanistan and Iraq and the War on Terror, it’s Israel/Gaza, it’s TikTok. Hell, it’s Vietnam.
I don’t know what to do about it. It’s part of the general pattern of lies being stronger than truth because they’re endlessly mutable and can be whatever you want. Being vigilant about the process helps but our coalition is loose and fickle.
Suzanne
@narya: It was definitely a huge time commitment. Lots of early mornings, lunchtime runs on WFH days, etc. I did a half-marathon last spring and had a blast, so I decided to see if I could do it. I definitely learned that I made some strategic errors, if finishing fast was a desire. I went pretty slowly, because I was really freaked out about not finishing. But that’s what first times are for!
Haven’t decided if I want to do another. If I do, there are some changes I’d make! But, I have to say….. it was a really good time.
Kay
He threatened Denmark with trade sanctions. Because they aren’t lining up to hand Greenland over to him and his thugs to benefit Putin.
US media responded with “fun” pieces on what a master real estate titan Trump is and how great it would be to steal Greenland from the indigenous people who have lived there for thousands of years. Greenlanders first treaty with Norway (at that time Norway had Denmark, later that reversed) was in 1200.
Denmark responded by conferring with NATO allies on how to meet the threat by the United States.
We’re like one of those insular basket case countries now, where we create our own reality.
Suzanne
As for eggs…. The last two times I’ve gone to the store, they’ve been totally sold out. There is definitely a supply problem in my neck of the woods.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s largely correct. People will beat up on whoever volunteers to be the patsy, and that’s usually us.
sixthdoctor
@Suzanne: Congratulations! That’s a hell of an accomplishment.
The TikTok ban also shut down Marvel SNAP, a game based on Marvel characters that’s popular among content creators. It will undoubtably be opened back up soon but it’s another nice oligarch fuck you to Biden as he heads out.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Oh I get it and I understand Businesses and organizations that use facebook Instead of Paying money To have a website.
But often that’s the only way to get information about those entities And I do have a problem with that.
Case in point: Our HOA Which is really a Privately held LLC Has operating revenue of over $200,000 a year But uses facebook exclusively To notify residents about events Happenings
Side note here My kindle Thought I was saying anne Hathaway Instead of Happenings
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker: So while I was in FL last week, I took Uber a few times. This is gonna be very Tom Friedman-y of me…. but two of the drivers (one an immigrant from Peru, one an immigrant from Dominican Republic) brought up some sort of social problem and then said they believed Trump would fix it! First guy said groceries and rent were too expensive and Trump would fix it. Second guy said there were too many “illegals with mental health problems” and that Trump would fix it.
I do not want to talk about politics while in the back of someone else’s car.
Kay
@Another Scott:
This isn’t just “Donald” disregarding other countries. Its all of US media and a huge chunk of Americans.
No one wants to deal with our lunatic far Right leaders. Its not funny or a thought experiment. They think we’re deluded and collapsing and we’re fucking GIANT. A collapse creates a hell of a dust cloud and crater. They’re genuinely vulnerable to our stupidity.
Timill
@Chief Oshkosh: Egg prices online at the local Kroger:
per 18 large eggs:
Kroger® Grade A Large White Eggs: $5.89
Simple Truth™ Natural Cage Free Large Brown Eggs: $5.79
Eggland’s Best Classic Large White Eggs: $5.49
This order no sense…
Matt McIrvin
@Percysowner: I haven’t ever used TikTok but I’ve used YouTube Shorts which are basically their imitation of TikTok and get a lot of repurposed TikTok videos. I don’t personally like it as much as regular YouTube but I can understand why it would be appealing–and just shutting down a platform with this huge amount of content is incredibly destructive.
Obviously TikTok is going to come back in short order, because the Republicans who voted to ban it will reverse their positions if Trump tells them to, and the Dems will just be left holding the bag.
Kay
@Nukular Biskits:
Facebook (and Google) marketed hard to small businesses about fifteen years ago. We eventually had to block Google’s small business sales number(s) at the law office they cold called so often.
narya
@Suzanne: What would you change, out of curiosity?
Part of what also holds me back is the massive crowd, with a whole LOT of people who are a whole LOT faster than I would ever be. Maybe a slow-people marathon would work for me–or split it over 2-3 days. I could probably manage that. :-)
Spanky
@Suzanne:
Congratulations! That is awesome. Imo the passage of that much time doesn’t matter.
I’ve been mulling over getting back into running. My GP is ok with it, my ortho isn’t so sure about my arthritic hip. I guess if it really starts to bug me I can always stop. I’ll be 71 this spring, but other than the hip all systems are ok.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I’m starting to appreciate how early human tribes created royal families.
gene108
@Suzanne:
Amazing! Running a marathon is an awesome accomplishment.
Regarding TikTok, the ban and general crappy ideas about regulating the internet, I think, is the result of Congress skewing older than rest of the country. Average age of House members, in the 118th Congress, was 57 years and 64 years in the Senate.
I’m 50, I’ve gotten used to modern technology but it’s no way as intuitive for me as it is to people in their teens and 20’s.
We really need younger people in Congress.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: That is funny.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
If people still care about a short TikTok ban months from now, then there’s nothing we could have done to keep them from embracing Trump.
Chief Oshkosh
@Timill: I’m just reporting what I found at FoodRite’s webpage, for sale (not “on sale”) today. They also had more expensive eggs
ETA: My pricing was for a dozen, yours is for 18. Based on 2.29/dozen, the 18 pack should be ~$3.44 and yet it’s over $5 (which is similar to FoodRite prices). As you say, makes no sense.
Another Scott
Mastodon:
As always, if one isn’t paying for a product, one almost certainly is the product.
Be careful out there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
I think Dem strategists and media people weren’t on TikTok so were unaware of how pro Dem it was. I think they weren’t on TikTok because its a lower class group than X or Bluesky.
Hope Walz was on it and so was AOC. Hugely popular accounts.
Starfish (she/her)
@satby: I thought the Americans were about to be banned for telling Chinese workers about the concept of the five-day work week.
Nukular Biskits
@gene108:
Agreed with respect to your comment about needing a younger congress.
I turned 60 last October so I guess officially I am an old. Having said that I don’t believe congress truly represents this country from a demographic standpoint Much less A political 1
Betty Cracker
Did y’all see Josh Marshall’s post on “Greenland discourse” in DC? Here’s a gift link. It’s pretty horrifying, but this has the potential to provide comic relief:
The idea of these coddled man-baby Trumpists morons huddled around a fire at the bottom of a fjord is hilarious.
I mean, these are the people who are so fucking scared they carry AR-15s into suburban doughnut shops. These are the sniveling toddlers who whined incessantly about wearing a piece of cloth on their stupid faces during a public health emergency. These are the puling infants who meep about toilet flushing volume and shower head water pressure.
They’re going to go live on a sparsely populated melting ice cap? Really? I almost hope they try it! It would make the Fyre Festival debacle look like a coronation at Westminster Abbey.
Michael Bersin
Braved temperature in the low 20s yesterday for the Kansas City version of the People’s March at Mill Creek Park at 47th and Main. Not the numbers from eight years ago, but the messages were, distressingly, the same.
I have a favorite image…
People’s March – Kansas City, Missouri – January 18, 2025
frosty
@Suzanne: Congratulations on the marathon! It’s great to achieve a long-term goal. As for another one… I’d cross it off my list and move on but a lot of people don’t. There’s always another course!
Suzanne
@narya: Soooo…. would definitely pick a late fall or spring event, so that the 6 weeks or so of training prior to the event was more favorable. Would pick one with a slightly later starting time…. This race released the first batch of runners at 4:30 AM, which meant that I was up by 2 AM, in the corral by 4, and I actually started running slightly after 5. So the first chunk of the race was in the dark, and I was pretty cold and it was hard to keep my muscles loose. A more urban race would have created fewer bottlenecks along the route, and it’s nice when there’s spectators. I definitely lost some time at places along the route where it got narrower and we all had to crowd in a bit close for my liking.
But….. the race was really well-organized, there were a ton of run-walkers and it was very first-timer-friendly, and there were fun distractions — you could get pictures taken with characters every mile, if you wanted. LOL.
MomSense
@Suzanne:
Avian flu is hitting commercial egg production badly. I recently learned what the disposal process is and it’s no joke. All the birds have to be destroyed and then buried like hazmat.
I’m just praying that one of those raw milk ingesting idiots doesn’t get bird flu plus influenza at the same time.
Stupid is killing us.
Starfish (she/her)
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I have already forgotten about the Trump voters to the point that I was wondering what a women’s social organization had to do with it.
Geminid
@Kay: My impression is that politicians including Democrats fixated on all the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel content on TikTok and overreacted to it. I doubt that TikTok would have been banned had it not been for that war and the heated controversy around it.
Kay
The “blue” accounts on TikTok WERE unsophisticated. This wasn’t an NPR or NYTimes group (thank God). It was earnest stay at home often tatooed moms speaking straight to the camera about how Republicans would gut federal aid for kids with disabilities in schools. I don’t care if its TikTok but this is exactly WHO and WHAT we need.
TikTok had an entire genre of low income women unpacking what they were able to buy with food stamps – laying the items on a table. You just don’t see these people anywhere else.
Starfish (she/her)
@Professor Bigfoot: What were you trying to print? My son just got a printer for the holidays.
Suzanne
@Kay: I think lots of Dem strategists missed out on TikTok because many of them are of advanced age! (Looking at you, James Carville!) It is a young cohort over there!
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: Your sample wasn’t skewed, sadly. Florida genuinely has a multiracial/cultural pro-fascist majority. My greatest political fear is that the country is trending in the same direction.
Kay
@Geminid:
That’s what Mitt Romney said.
Last night TikTok was FLOODED with videos from the Peoples Marches in DC and Chicago. Real time. I couldn’t find it anywhere else. If Democrats aren’t going to lead a resistance at least could they let one form? They’ll benefit.
RevRick
@satby: Most of the sales of Felon47’s crypto were through Chinese “financial “ exchanges. The bribe was in plain sight.
Michael Bersin
@Betty Cracker:
Jared Diamond’s Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed is a cautionary tale.
Then, there’s the small matter of ice, melting and otherwise.
It’s all a set up for corporate exploitation of cheap labor to extract vast resources and profits.
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
In short (as I’ve previously quipped), Magafest Destiny.
//
Starfish (she/her)
@Nukular Biskits: It sounds like you might get snow in the next couple of days.
gene108
One thing noticed about business people is they have a culture of “if you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”. Trump views relationship as transactional. This fits in well with business culture that also views business relationships as transactional.
TikTok knows they can get concessions from Trump, if they are “fair to him”, just like every other big business. They all come from the same culture of transactional (business) relationships.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Betty Cracker: They can’t even go outside for the Inauguration when it’s in the mid-20s.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay: The mocking of tiktok is punching down.
Kay
@Suzanne:
The TikTok genre of people who have to live in their cars! Read the comment s. Almost 100% sympathetic. I could not imagine a better way to build a pro housing political majority among working class and low income people.
I also think TikTok was female-coded and as you know we hate women in this country. The emphasis on groceries and housing and kids wasn’t “serious” enough.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker: Yeah.
My big fear is that I really don’t think we’re doing a good job strategizing for the future. Climate change, a growing-but-aging population, urbanization, an economy that needs more skilled services. We’re not investing in future success. I think fascism germinates in these conditions.
Nukular Biskits
@Starfish (she/her):
Not me. I’m in San Diego on business.
Ms Biskits is gonna be BIG MAD if it does.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Seriously.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: We already have Alaska. Most of it is uninhabited. Why don’t the hardy pioneers just go to Alaska? I know, they’re gonna say something about red tape and federal lands, but it’s not like Alaska isn’t being exploited.
This reminds me a lot of space-fan Turnerism too. It’s Elon Musk’s case for colonizing Mars. Both Greenland and Mars are mostly of interest for scientific exploration, but we can already do that.
NotMax
@Nukular Biskits
Lotsa variety (albeit pricey) choices when it comes to eats in the Gaslight District.
MagdaInBlack
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’ll assume the NYT turned off comments on that one.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I think so too. I’m not too surprised. As the saying goes, at least it’s an ethos.
Suzanne
@Kay: I know everyone here hates Ezra Klein, but sometimes he gets it right. I think he hit the nail on the head today:
TikTok is a really potent way to get that attention right now.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: I suspect that multicultural fascism isn’t a sustainable model over the long term. Our coalition might be squabbling and fragile but at least most of us don’t literally want to eliminate each other.
Rose Judson
@Suzanne: Congratulations!
I ran marathons for about 15 years, until I discovered competitive weightlifting. In addition to being a great way to keep yourself motivated to stay fit and just generally add structure to your day, they’re also a good excuse to go see other cities.
Of the UK/EIRE ones I ran, Dublin had the best vibes. Edinburgh was the prettiest.
Kay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Please. The intellectual rigor of X or Facebook. Lol. It was fascinating to me because these are the women NOT on Instagram, with Instagrams perfectly curated hobbies and houses and fake-perfect home lives.
Good for you and the rest of Book Tok for going out and meeting them and not dismissing them as potential READERS. I couldn’t find them anywhere else and I’ll miss them.
NotMax
@Suzanne
Nominated for the single most depressing sentence of the week.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: TikTok users were a *younger* group. This is the gerontocracy at work.
The social media I’m on is mostly fogeys, because that’s me.
Kay
@Suzanne:
I love, love, love how Hope Walz doesn’t wear makeup and is 6 inches from the camera on TikTok. A native. Its as natural to her as speaking to friends. Hire her. Let her run social media.
lowtechcyclist
@Nukular Biskits:
Same here. But I also understand that some businesses are so small that the extra effort to maintain and update a real website is too much of a hassle to be worth the trouble for them.
So I’ll go on FB to see what the specials are at Pinky’s, my local carry-out (Spanky, you need to check them out! they’re in that mini-strip mall on Route 2 just south of Mt. Harmony), but other than that, nope.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
There’s definitely going to be an embrace of fascism and an expanded inclusion of admitting men of various races and ethnicities into the “in group”.
I feel like something real shifted in the last four years. Decades of work on equality, inclusion, representation, etc. got relentlessly attacked. I think people are primed to be more intolerant now than they were 10 years ago.
In 2016, North Carolina passed the first anti-transgender bathroom bill. The backlash was swift. Businesses threatened to boycott the state. The NBA moved the All-Star game from Charlotte.
Around half the states have more draconian anti-transgender laws and there’s no pushback. I feel like more people are embracing anti-transgender panic than a few years ago.
I do not know what’s going to happen, but I have a really bad feeling where things will end up as Republicans keep pushing towards one party rule.
Nukular Biskits
@NotMax:
Been here many a time and, yes, there are LOTSA good eats here.
Staying just a block down from Little Italy, where I highly recommend visitors plan to eat dinner at least once.
Suzanne
@NotMax: It is depressing.
I feel like, though…. we donate shit-tons of money to these campaigns. What they should be doing with it is hiring people who are good at this. Seeing the information environment as it is now. Not four years ago. Four years ago might as well have been forty years ago.
Nukular Biskits
@Matt McIrvin:
I dunno. I’ve seen some pretty targeted comments about pantless people here <looks in Baud’s direction>.
Ohio Mom
@Suzanne: Congrats!
Geminid
@Kay: I should have added that there wasn’t a straight-up vote on the TikTok ban. I was speaking to the political dynamic behind adding it to a “must pass” foreign military aid bill.
I don’t think the Democrats voting for the bill neccesarily wantted to ban TikTok because of the anti-Israel content, or even wanted to ban TikTok at all. They knew how hard it had been to get the military aid package for Ukraine onto the floor, and they weren’t taking any chances on an amendment that would strip out the TikTok ban.
Suzanne
@Kay: There is an aesthetic of unguardedness in the 40(ish)-and-under age cohort that we aren’t good at. (I don’t want to call it authenticity, because it is also performance, but it is all in service of a much different kind of image.)
Politician-speak usually sounds exceedingly coached and practiced, and this can come off as insincere or dishonest.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I saw that claim from Bluesky leftists, that “the Democrats” wanted TikTok banned because it was “showing people the truth about Gaza”. I kind of doubted that there was that level of intentionality to it.
frosty
@Betty Cracker: After abandoning our plans for Arizona we got to Florida yesterday (71 degrees!)and woke up to driving rain and those wind gusts. It’ll be in the 30s tonight but warm enough our water system won’t freeze. I’m not complaining- my sons will be facing laws of 5 and 1. Plus snow.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Liberal social media tends to pounce on politicians who say something that colors outside the lines. Not really something a Republican ever has to worry about.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I discount any claims relating to what’s really in people’s hearts. Universally, no matter the accuser or the accused.
Nukular Biskits
I know some here have their issues with Amanda Marcotte and I admittedly don’t read her often.
But she has a thread on Bluesky about TikTok, referencing her article on Salon, and I do agree with this:
Starfish (she/her)
@Kay: Yes. There is this one radical unschooler that is so completely stupid. I have watched all the response videos to her stupidity on YouTube. They go like “You have a six year old who can’t write his name, and you are celebrating that.”
And this lady who was trying to do food stamp fraud has spilled over into YouTube hard.
sab
@frosty: I assume laws=lows?
narya
@Suzanne: Oh, that timing is insane! I’m an early-morning person, but getting up at 2 to get ready for a race by 4? And changing the target date so that the training is less in the colddark makes sense. Yay for the well-organized part: that’s really important. Again, congrats! And it sounds like you’re already planning your next one ;-)
Starfish (she/her)
@Suzanne: No one should be taking political advice from James Carville ever. He has not been relevant since the Clinton administration, and I do not know why this man is still invited to anything.
Betty Cracker
@Matt McIrvin: I hope so. The thing I’ve seen here that’s so disturbing is a growing number of people accepting bigotry directed in part toward themselves in exchange for subordinate membership in the bully coalition and the side benefits that supposedly accrue from that.
Repub pols in Florida are as racist and sexist as Repubs anywhere else in the South. DeSantis isn’t subtle about it either.
That’s a remarkable thing to say out loud, but nobody really cared, and Trump went on to pick a white man as running mate and win the state by double digits.
Baud
@Starfish (she/her):
Is anyone taking political advice from him, other than cable news?
YY_Sima Qian
@satby: What are you on about?! Do you know any of the Chinese users on RedNote, whom you so quickly & smugly dismiss as “slaves” & “propagandists”? Who have mostly welcomed the “TikTok refugees” w/ open arms, despite their arrival completely changing the nature of the platform? (They had used the platform for recommendations on recipes/fashion & product reviews, now its full of foreign influencers introducing themselves, & Western & increasing international cultural content.)
The RedNote app predates ByteDance‘s Douyin & TikTok, & before the recent flood of international users arrived this week had already amassed a user base of ~ 300M active monthly users, ~ 12% of whom were based outside of Mainland China (Chinese nationals overseas, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Chinese diaspora in SE Asia, etc.). While there had been lots of consumerist chaff in the content, the platform was always known for its friendly & supportive vibe, & avoidance of politics or even anything controversial. It had & has much less of the toxicity that is prevalent on international social media platforms (X, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, even TikTok) & their Chinese counterparts (Weibo, Douyin, Kuaishou, BilliBilli, Zhihu). There had been even a smattering of Western early adopters seeking fashion & makeup advice from Chinese users, as well as Western artists seeking new audiences, before the current new wave of arrivals, all had been drawn to the platform by its laid back vibe.
Of course, RedNote‘s user base was & remains skewed to the upper couple of quintiles of the Chinese population (in terms of income), to urban residents of the 1st to 3rd tier cities, majority women, & it has been a refuge for the Chinese LGBT community (where they can engage w/ each other openly w/o harassment). Their lifestyles & circumstances are not completely representative of the Chinese population as a whole. RedNote also quite noticeably modified its recommendation algorithm w/ the arrival of the wave of international users. The consumerist chaff has been cleared away, & high quality content on Chinese & international culture history, arts & crafts, music, cuisine, or just ordinary people sharing their life experiences, are getting boosted, surely to put China’s best face forward. This change has not gone unnoticed by the Chinese users. Nonetheless, this “good” side of China is no less real & no less relevant the “bad” & “ugly” side that gets plenty of coverage in Western MSM.
Chinese users are bonding w/ the newly arrived international users, chiding RedNote algorithm for de-boosting the high quality culture content in the past in favor of live e-commerce/retail, & openly telling each other to enjoy & make the most of what they fully expect to be a fleeting moment of global kumbaya, since they anticipate that walls will erected again (by the CPC regime, which goes unstated). Yet, here you are blithely disparaging the Chinese users as slaves/propagandists/bots, & by extension the “TikTok refugees” as fools/useful idiots for expressing gratitude for the warm welcome they have received, despite essentially intruding into an unsuspecting & hitherto overwhelmingly Chinese community w/o notice as an FU to Zuckerberg & USG.
You don’t know the people on RedNote, you don’t know how they are engaging w/ each other, but that didn’t stop you from smugly passing judgment. Are you sure you are being better than the MAGA xenophobes?
Ohio Mom
@Percysowner: I didn’t know Tumblr still existed. Learn something new everyday on this blog.
TF79
“The rent-seeking frauds and clownish charlatans are ascendent…” – exactly this. Government by mob boss
sab
@Geminid: Thank you for the reminder. I knew it at the time but had forgotten that it was part of the military funding package.
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne: Gadzooks, you are a glutton for punishment! However, I gather congratulations are in order so…congratulations!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@narya:
Started out doing marathons, moved up to ultramarathons (at the low end of that spectrum, meaning 50K and 6-hour races).
Massive crowd size isn’t an issue with ultras. :) But, having run the Marine Corps twice and in Virginia Beach once (which was a training run for a 50-mile ultra, my first), yeah, massive crowds suck in that it’s a traffic jam unless you’re running fast. First year in Marine Corps, I was in the 3:30 hour section and I spent most of my time trying not to run into people. The following year, I trained to run it in under 3-hours and basically ran with the Top 10 women, no crowds.
So I tell people to shop around, not try for a “big name” event. Pre-climate change, mid-Fall was a great time of year for fast runners because the temps would start maybe around 40, then get up to maybe 50 and you can run all day in those conditions. Anything warmer and it’s tough…which is what’s happened since then. Late spring has also gotten potentially “too warm”, making it harder to pick a time where the event doesn’t turn into a bake-fest.
The time commitment issue is relative. I’ve used an ancient training profile that assumes you start training with a base mileage per week of around 30 miles. How much mileage you then put in during a week depends on how fast you want to attempt. This ancient profile allows for as little as 48 miles per week. Back when I trained for the 50-miler and running a marathon in under 3 hours, I was putting in 70 miles a week, now that was a time commitment.
The US woman who won the Bronze in the Tokyo Olympics, to put this in perspective, was running 125 miles a week…and that’s not atypical…but she wasn’t at Paris because she was injured.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: The elasticity of whiteness allows for a lot–people can aspire to eventually join the magic circle (as Professor Bigfoot has observed, the one exception is if they’re Black–actually I think Natives may be another exception but mostly out west).
But I think a lot of people are eventually going to be disappointed when it turns out the “illegals” Trump promised to crack down on are not actually “illegals” but include them.
But you can always slice and dice crosswise, with masculinity as an attractor across racial lines and whiteness as an attractor across gender lines, etc. Always find the way that people want to punch down or kiss up.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: I just met with the guy who scored us the place to live (a rent-free trailer until October) and will be my boss. Super nice guy but I’m definitely getting some Trumpy vibes from him. Things like “nobody wants to work”, telling offensive jokes using antiquated ethnic/gender stereotypes and saying some lady “hated America.” I’m gonna have to bite my lip a lot at least until I’m established at work and no longer living in his provided housing. It’s gonna be a bit tricky setting boundaries and deciding which stuff to push back on.
Bill Arnold
@Kay:
This is what drove the banning from the first. The concerns about national security were cover intended for the gullible, mostly. (Bans in certain Federal agencies would be reasonable.)
Anyone who trusts American social media companies run by right-wing oligarchs to not share their troves of personal data/metadata with hostile foreign governments is a fool.
Gloria DryGarden
@Suzanne: congratulations. It’s amazing. And in a way, it’s a new beginning, or a milestone. You can imagine it marks being able to go the distance through difficulties. May we all have some way to believe we can make it through whatever is next.
it’s seriously amazing that you ran a whole marathon.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I just don’t know how we can expect people to care when so many people inside our tent don’t care.
narya
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: That’s really helpful detail. The thing is, I just don’t run that much. Last year my total miles were down compared to 2023–I’m going to try to bring them up again this year–but even in 2023 I wasn’t anywhere close to those miles. I don’t know if I want to try to change that, tbh–though on yesterday’s run (the first of the year, because it’s been snowing, ice, and/or stupid cold) I though maybe I could set a 10k as a goal, or a half marathon if the spring goes well and I’m feeling ambitious. I worked with someone who did ultras, and . . . whew. I think the boredom would be my biggest enemy.
Starfish (she/her)
@Matt McIrvin: I want ALL social media banned because of all the propaganda involving Israel and Palestine. The whole thing is so anxiety inducing because “Is any of this real? Are these photos from this war or some other war?” I don’t trust any of it, and that is so hard.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@UncleEbeneezer:
Heh heh “Trumpy Vibes”. Those all sounds like dog-whistle messaging from a full-bore Trump voter.
Good luck navigating that. I’m always suspicious of anybody bring politics in this day and age almost immediately into an relationship (relationship defined in a very broad, any-regular-interaction kinda way).
Fair Economist
@Suzanne: Except attention IS controlled by media. X pushes 10 times as much rightist content as leftist. The NYT writes 1000 articles about Hillary’s email nonscandal, and 2 about Trump’s actual charity fraud.
narya
This. The next-to-the-last time I lost my job, I actually kinda rolled my eyes; I’d been Through Some Things, so it just didn’t land the way it might have years earlier.
UncleEbeneezer
We are not in
KansasLos Angeles anymore. Here in Taos it is 9 degrees with a high of 23 today! Talk about a shock to our systems. Fortunately I grew up in Boston so I’m a little prepared for it, though it’s been years. But like CO, when the sun is out it feels a bit warmer than the thermometer tells you.Suzanne
@Baud:
Eh, this isn’t really what I am talking about.
Shortly after Harris became the nominee, Spawn the Elder sent me a TikTok video of Harris. She was asked about her favorite swear word. She said in the video that she couldn’t say it, but she very strongly hinted that it was muthafucka. And she looked fucken great in that video. Funny, approachable, uncoached, just genuinely really appealing. No governmental content of any kind, but it was engaging enough that he sent it to me, and I sent it to SuzMom, who watched it probably ten times, and laughed until she cackled.
And then I didn’t see any more of those moments. That’s a missed opportunity.
Ohio Mom
@Suzanne: Almost all of the Uber drivers around here are immigrants, though I can’t always identify their countries of origin by their names. Definitely some are African, some may be from Central Asia.
If it was me using Uber, I’d be chatting up the drivers and have a better sense of where they have come from. But it’s Ohio Son taking Ubers to work and various activities and he is pretty asocial (per his diagnosis). All I know about the drivers is what appears on the “Share My Ride” screen.
I’m wondering if Uber HQ is worried about the rising anti-immigrant sentiment, it’s a good portion of their workforce under attack.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I get that. But the right has the freedom to do so much more. Maybe we can do better, but I don’t think we’ll ever not come off as more careful in what we say or how we say it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@narya:
Yeah, only do it if there’s some level of enjoyment out of it. I know plenty of people who went thru the bucket-list approach to a marathon (have advised several on training over the years), didn’t get “hooked” (ultra runners have a larger proportion of former addicts in our ranks), didn’t do one again because it simply wasn’t enjoyable.
So absolutely, aim at different participatory targets…or don’t, it’s all good as long as your active.
Heh heh, boredom on ultras. Most people over the last 20 years “plug in and tune out”. The entire podcast culture is right up their alley. I’m very old school in that I listen to nothing. People always ask me, what do you think about when running? I tell them half the time I have an awful Top-40 earworm song stuck in my head. I never get good songs stuck in my head. The other half of the time I think about issues that I’m involved with here in Denver that also bleed over into the push back I bring in here. When I was working and had a particularly vexing IT problem, I’d think about solutions for those and running really helped bring those problems and fixes into clarity.
Starfish (she/her)
@Baud: I just said “eat the rich” that one time, and everyone was like “But what if they are not gluten-free” and “Can I eat them as part of my ketogenic diet?”
p.a.
I’ve said for a long time if/when the left is eliminated, they’ll turn on each other; fundy/”libertarian”/Catholic/Mammonist… When the shining shitty on a hill doesn’t appear when group X is neutralized, it’ll be on to group Y, even if Y helped neutralize X. Bigots gonna bigot.
Got the side-eye from my conservaturd relatives (who enjoyed their wine/beer etc.) when I pointed out after I’m gone they will be the target of their tea-tottler allies next, and if there’s one more of the drys than them they’ll end up on the bonfire next.
Dumb fucks.
Suzanne
@Fair Economist: Kay and I are describing how people are successfully getting attention using the tools and platforms that are relevant right now, despite Elmo’s bias. We have to lean into that as an important political skill.
pieceofpeace
@Suzanne: Good for you!
YY_Sima Qian
ByteDance did not just shut down TikTok in the US, it also shut down every property in its portfolio in the US: CapCut, Lemon8 (the RedNote imitator that had been at the top of download charts w/ RedNote in the past few days), & a couple of others. Shutting down CapCut in the US could have as much impact as closing TikTok there.
OTOH, it appears that ByteDance has now allowed international (ex-US) users to sign up to Douyin, the PRC version of TikTok, so that they can directly engage w/ Chinese users on the platform, & engage w/ each other’s content, as people are now doing on RedNote. The expectation both inside & outside of the PRC had been that the CPC regime would push RedNote to cordon off Chinese & international users to separate platforms, a la Douyin & TikTok. However, PRC state media & state organs have commented positively on the phenomenon of “TikTok refugees” on RedNote, taking it as a soft power win & taking advantage of the USG own goal. RedNote rushed out native translation features to the App in 3 days, & is now hiring thousands of English capable moderators/censors, both significant financial investments, especially so close to the Spring Festival break.
These developments could be signs that the CPC regime is now willing to tolerate direct virtual engagement between Chinese & the outside world (w/o tools such as VPN), if still on its terms (on platforms subject to the regime’s censorship regulations). That had not been the case before. ByteDance & RedNote could follow the example of Weixin/WeChat, where users download separate versions of the App, but can engage directly w/ each other on the same virtual platform. However, any political content that runs afoul of the CPC regime’s censorship regulations are rendered invisible to Chinese users, rather than deleted outright. This kind of partial opening would be in line w/ visa-waiver policies that were established & expanded to most parts of the world over the past year.
Baud
@Starfish (she/her):
How did the vegans react?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@UncleEbeneezer: Taos is great. How are you doing with the elevation?
frosty
@sab: Ha ha, yes. Must proofread!!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@UncleEbeneezer:
It’s 5 up here in the Denver core with a high of 16 predicted.
The sun. Great in winter like you said but just wait until the summer. That being said, the shade in the summer is glorious as the air temp is lower than you expect and you’re out of the sun and it’s damn near perfect being outside all the time.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: There was something to the claim but I put most of what you describe in the category of, “people trying to weaponize this war to advance their own political agendas.”
That’s been a really ugly aspect of the war. This catastrophe was bad enough without people exploiting it for political purposes. But political opportunism has been a part of the debate ever since the war started over fifteen months ago.
Starfish (she/her)
@Baud: The vegans were out searching for food. They know that no one properly accommodates them.
Dear vegans, I bring you this no chicken and dumplings recipe to annoy your Southern relatives.
Suzanne
@Baud: My issue is more that we just seem to underrate the value of the “performance” strengths needed to compete in the modern environment, and I think it causes us to make some bad strategic choices. We cede ground. I am in no way saying that the environment is fair.
narya
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: The other thing that challenges me is the mental I-don’t-WANNA-WAAAAAH. I always feel better after having done a run, which does serve to motivate me somewhat, and sometimes, 20 minutes into it, my brain smoothes out, but whew. I think a training plan might be a good thing for me, because then I’d just f’king DO it . . . even if I’m only aiming for a 10k.
Ohio Mom
@MagdaInBlack: There are never comments on Ezra Klein’s podcasts and I can’t remember seeing any on his written columns either. What a sweet deal for him.
MagdaInBlack
@Ohio Mom: I did not know this. How very sweet indeed to have such a safe space.
UncleEbeneezer
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I can’t imagine Summers being worse than in SoCal. Our blistering heat and constant threat of wildfires, was a big reason we wanted to move.
Miss Bianca
@YY_Sima Qian: I have to admit that even tho’ I don’t use any of the social platforms involved, and most likely won’t because I’m old and distrustful, that I get a great deal of pleasure from the notion of great numbers of Chinese and American citizens just guilelessly checking each other out in virtual space in the interim before our respective governments figure out how best to throttle that exchange of ideas and views or turn it to propaganda.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ohio Mom:
Given that Little Ezra started Pandagon as basically a resume bullet point back when he was in college, he knows better than most how shellacked one can get when writing stoopid shit and allowing comments.
I’d venture he made damn sure anything he does that faces the public doesn’t allow commentary. He and his wife are real pieces of work and part of what’s wrong not just with media but with media (and media voices) that’s supposedly left-leaning.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@UncleEbeneezer:
Oops, lemme clarify:
You’ll *love* the summers in Taos…as long as you work things around being in the shade during the hottest parts of the day and get used to bringing a light jacket with you if out after dark.
My wife, Denver native, when we moved back in 2018 after living much of our adult lives in hot, humid places like Northern VA and Central Misery said “wtf was I thinking ever leaving here? This climate is great.”
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: Whoa, that’s disturbing, but maybe he’s just testing you to see if you’re on the same page politically. (Happens to me all the time since my demographic skews right.)
If he’s not an abusive asshole (and despite their horrifying politics, lots of Trumpy people aren’t, in my experience — some are capable of sincere kindness), he’ll probably take the hint if you offer some non-angry pushback.
Several years ago when I was new to my present neighborhood, a neighbor from up North brought up the removal of Confederate monuments in a mildly disapproving way. Since I’m a white Southerner, he probably expected me to agree.
I gave him my opinion on it, and he (correctly) clocked me as a liberal. Since then, he’s never brought up anything remotely political in my presence. (That’s fine with me.) We get along fine. Good luck!
Another Scott
@UncleEbeneezer: Urg. Sorry.
I hope you find a way to make it work out. Who knows, maybe he’ll pull a Cole and move into the light. ;-)
Hang in there!
Best wishes,
Scott.
YY_Sima Qian
BTW, RedNote’s algorithm has also pushed content by a few people who appear to be active during US military personnel. There is one from the 101st Airborne, one from the 10th Mountain, a female USAF transport aircraft pilot, & a sailor on a USN aircraft carrier. They have posted content of being on base, on the deck of a carrier, & inside of the transport aircraft’s cockpit. While the content are probably unclassified & probably have been posted to TikTok or Instagram before already, what the hell are they doing on RedNote or any Chinese App, or posting on any social media platform from these locations?!
Kay
@YY_Sima Qian:
That brief moment of watching Chinese young people and American young people try to communicate across a language barrier was really joyful. Whatever their respective governments were scheming about, the individuals involved approached it with genuine curiosity and in good faith.
I kept thinking about what you wrote, how Rednote users are not a random sample – how they’re college educated “bougies” so THAT was also really interesting, because it was US non college working and middle class interacting with better-off Chinese.
YY_Sima Qian
@Miss Bianca: I am certainly enjoying the moment while it lasts.
YY_Sima Qian
@Kay: Yes. There is an asymmetry there that is creating an overly rosy impression in the minds of many “TikTok refugees”, but most it the latter is using the former as foil to lament & inveigle their plight in the US.
Also, what is very clear from anyone who has visited the PRC, or paid attention to the backgrounds scenery in the videos of the lives & lifestyles of RedNote‘s Chinese users, is that the public infrastructure in the PRC now puts the US (& indeed much of Europe, too), to shame. Every income quintile of the Chinese population use the high speed rail, the expressways, the urban metros, the electric buses. The public schools & universities are mostly recently built or freshly renovated. Even remote mountain villages now have paved & well maintained roads, reliable utilities, broadband internet & 5G coverage, so that they are now integrated into the national socio-economy.
Public infrastructure is public goods “consumed” by all strata of society. That concept has faded through the decades of neoliberalism in the US. Instead, Western economists spend the past 2 decades question the financial “efficiency” of the CPC regime building so much public infrastructure (& housing) w/ poor returns on a project by project basis. That is an *ass backward way of looking at public goods & basic necessities.
YY_Sima Qian
@Kay: Also, the Chinese user base on RedNote is quickly diversifying as the nature of the platform changes w/ the new international arrivals.
For one thing, twerking teenage American girls have attached a male audience. More seriously, all of the Chinese & international cultural content have attracted a more general audience to the platform, & more Chinese LGBT people have signed on to connect w/ their international counterparts.
& the moment is not over, yet! Seems set to continue in some form, as I wrote in #171.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … nycsouthpaw:
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kay
@Geminid:
Its just frustrating to me because Democrats keep making this fundamental mistake, that the issue with Gaza is people is people talking about Gaza, and not the reality of what went on there.
Mitt Romney seemed completely convinced that it will all be FINE as long as he works to shut down discussions about how its not actually fine. It wasn’t just people in the US who objected to I/P policy, as you know. It didn’t spring from students at NYU. It was all over the world – huge opposition.
This to me is like the Right wing approach, where material conditions – reality – no longer matters and what matters is whether peoples perceptions can be manipulated. To me its the scariest part of the far Right – the unreality- and it seems to be spreading over to our side. Well-off Mormons are usually aware of the wider world because of the missions, business, etc. Romney really believes the whole world was manipulated into opposing Gaza? There’s no chance at all the opposition is because its horrific?
MomSense
@Suzanne:
I thought Klein made an astute observation.
Kay
@Geminid:
It reminds me of the far Right on the SCOTUS. “The problem isn’t that we’re corrupt hacks, the problem is people believe we’re corrupt hacks”
What?
Kay
@Another Scott:
Cotton fell for Russian propaganda on Greenland in 2019. Russia sent phony Intel to US Senators about how Greenlanders would become independent and reject US use of their country, our military bases, etc. Only the moron Cotton fell for it. That’s the genesis of the far Right intention to grab Greenland – Russian interference that Danish intelligence services debunked.
Kay
@YY_Sima Qian:
Oh good. I think low income US users WOULD be vulnerable to China putting forth a very good face with a bougie Chinese user base, but again, that’s an indication of a real problem in the US. They wouldn’t be vulnerable to the appeal of universal healthcare and housing In China if they, you know, HAD healthcare and housing.
The US is doing what failing countries do – they’re afraid to compete – believe we cannot compete on the merits – so we’re shutting down information and exposure and discussion. It will fail. It always does.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: He and the tennis club staff where I will be working, are hosting a welcome party for us on Thursday. I’m thinking when I make a “thank you” speech I think I may just be upfront and tell everyone that I take inclusion and fairness my students very seriously and I have zero tolerance for bigotry against any marginalized group. And light-heartedly warn people that I don’t hold back calling stuff out so Be Warned for anyone who wants to be friends on Facebook.
YY_Sima Qian
@Kay: One thing that had never occurred to me despite having living in the US for a long time was the role of property tax in heightening working/middle class precarity. Western economists had always advised that the PRC government should pivot from the land sale model of financing local government budgets to raising property taxes, which would have the additional benefit of cooling the real estate bubble. That had always made sense to me, & the land sale model was never sustainable.
However, it is only w/ the interactions w/ the “TikTok refugees” have I (& just about all Chinese users) realized what a burden real estate taxes can be. Since savings rate is already so low among working/middle class Americans, w/ their finances under pressure by price inflation of the last couple of years, if they become unemployed or precarious employed, property taxes could prove part of a burden they could not bear. There is no property tax in the PRC, so once people are cleared of their mortgages, there is no risk of them going bankrupt & turn homeless even if they lose their jobs.
Also, the people occupying the lowest rungs of Chinese urban society, the factory line workers & the delivery drivers (& other workers of the “gig” economy) generally can still save ~ 30% of their modest paychecks. They either live in free factory dormitories or very affordable (if no frills) rental places, eat at subsidized factories canteens or the very affordable take out restaurants. At the worst, they work their tough jobs for a few years & then return to their rural origins, where they are guaranteed a plot of land, free land to build their homes (whose construction & furbishing/furnishing are heavily subsidized by the government), spend their savings to open a small business or get in on live e-commerce to sell their produce/products directly to the urban mass affluent, & having sent their children through school to hopefully advance further in their lives. That may not be the urban mass affluence they might have aspired to, but it is still one rung higher on the ladder compared to being a factory worker or delivery driver on.the margins of urban society. They are not stuck w/ living paycheck to paycheck w/ their monotonous jobs.
I think these are some of the key differences between the working/middle classes in the PRC & the US.
Another Scott
Krebs runs https://krebsonsecurity.com/
Be careful out there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
YY_Sima Qian
@Another Scott: Americans cannot access TikTok even w/ a VPN, it seems the shut down is at server level w/ geoblock. I’ve read that even some Canadians can no longer access TikTok if their traffic went through US servers.
Another Scott
@YY_Sima Qian: There are comments on Krebs’s thread that talk about work-arounds (side-loading a new app, VPN, new account, etc.) that would let Americans get their fix.
There have to be ways – after all, it’s just bits and bytes.
Whether enough normal people want to go through the pain is another issue, of course.
(I haven’t tried any of the discussed work-arounds, myself. Just passing along some info.)
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
suzanne
@MomSense:
I thought that observation was insightful, too. Media and information consumption patterns are changing, rapidly, and we need to get ahead of it. From his comments, Ben Wikler seems to me to understand this to an extent, so I hope his voice carries some influence.
Almost like…. these pundits and editorialists can be right on some things, wrong on others, and it’s worth discussing the points on the merits.
Geminid
@UncleEbeneezer: Look, this is your call but I would caution against this approach. It seems to me that questions of inclusion and tolerance are resolved more in practice and than by precept. You can make as much or more impact on that group’s practices by modeling inclusivity than you can by proclaiming it when you introduce yourself.
You are a dedicated and experienced tennis instructor, and you’ll win respect for that from students, parents and colleagues. This will give your beliefs about inclusion and tolerance a kind of weight that they won’t have when you’re “fresh off the plane,” so to speak.
dnfree
@Baud: We had an educational tour of the Yucatán peninsula about a year ago. One of the things we learned was that it was once thought the Mayan society was somewhat egalitarian. Current thinking is that it was greatly stratified. The priests and rulers ran the society with apparently an iron hand. All of the study of the stars/planets/solstice etc. was controlled by the priests. Based on the sky they told people when to plant and when to harvest.
I didn’t look further into why or how modern thought had changed. We did learn that we don’t have much material about the Mayans, not because they didn’t have written documents, but because the Spanish priests destroyed much of the documentation when they came in. And we learned that in 1993 the pope came there and apologized for the church’s treatment of the Mayans. There’s a statue of him.
Timill
@dnfree: Plus we’ve only recently been able to read much of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script#Decipherment
eldorado
Really weird that AOC is out in front on this issue and not Greg Connolly
Super weird
Matt McIrvin
@YY_Sima Qian:
I watch a lot of transit-fan YouTube and it’s clear just from that. The PRC has been building out rail infrastructure to a degree that sounds like science fiction just about anywhere else. It even beats Japan’s just for newness and sheer scale.
In the United States you couldn’t even do this because it’d be impossible to get the rights of way at this point. We did it in the 19th century, in an imperialistic and genocidal and grift-ridden fashion of course. And our authoritarians mostly want rail destroyed, so they’re not gonna push it through using dictatorial powers.
The Biden administration actually managed to push through funding of a lot of public infrastructure projects and we’re gradually going to see the results of that over coming decades, but these things are inherently slow and feeble in the US.
UncleEbeneezer
@Geminid: I ran what I had in mind by a good friend who knows him and the community pretty well and she thinks it would go over great. Apparently he’s a Never Trump Republican but he is very passionate about getting more girls and native-Americans in the tennis programs, so he’s pretty well-meaning.
dnfree
@Timill: Two other things we learned is that the modern-day inhabitants of Yucatán ARE Mayans, and proud of it, and that Mexico is a huge melting pot of peoples and languages, which is part of why governance is difficult. In my ignorance, I just thought that Mexicans spoke Spanish.
Matt McIrvin
@dnfree: I knew a Mayan dude in grad school, nice guy. I keep thinking of him when people talk about Mayan culture as this mysterious vanished ancient civilization.
Another Scott
@eldorado: I assume you mean Gerry Connolly.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
dnfree
And what a fascinating article! Thanks for sharing.
Geminid
@UncleEbeneezer: That’s reassuring. I was worried this group might already believe in and practice inclusion and tolerance except when it comes to Californians. But sounds like your idea is a sound one.
Now, if you want to do some serious sucking up, mention how thrilled you are at the chance to learn the art of high altitude fly fishing. That’ll win win ’em over!
More seriously, I hope you find a happy home in Northern New Mexico. It’s a wonderful place. New Mexico is a great state although– it’s a very poor one,
StringOnAStick
Every twenty something I know is absolutely incensed about banning ticktok since that’s “their” social media. Looks like a huge own goal by our team with a group we need to win.