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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Flailing & Failing (Open Thread)

Flailing & Failing (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  July 16, 20255:20 pm| 179 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Assholes, General Stupidity

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Here’s the flailing part.

CNN: President Donald Trump is accusing some of his onetime supporters of being “weaklings” who are falling prey to Democratic “bullshit” about the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein — concluding that he no longer wants their support.

The message was the clearest sign yet of the cracks emerging in the president’s coalition, many of whom are loudly demanding more information about the disgraced financier, who has been subject to myriad conspiracies since his death by suicide in 2019. And some of his allies don’t appear to be listening, with Republicans in Congress taking steps Wednesday morning to potentially force the Justice Department to release more documents…

“Their new SCAM is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax, and my PAST supporters have bought into this ‘bullshit,’ hook, line, and sinker,” Trump wrote in a missive on Truth Social. “They haven’t learned their lesson, and probably never will, even after being conned by the Lunatic Left for 8 long years.”

“I have had more success in 6 months than perhaps any President in our Country’s history, and all these people want to talk about, with strong prodding by the Fake News and the success starved Dems, is the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax,” he wrote. “Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work, don’t even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don’t want their support anymore!”

Okay then. It’s possible that Team Sane underestimated how foundational the Epstein myth was not just to Q-anon loons but also to the ignoramus, generally anti-establishmentarian “manosphere” wankers.

In the linked article, Trump leaves open the door to further revelations at Pam Bondi’s discretion. But Bondi reiterates that there’s nothing from the Epstein files to release.

A few hours later, Bondi swatted away the possibility that she could release more case files, suggesting instead that last week’s memo declining to release files on Epstein “speaks for itself” and rejecting questions about making more documents public.

Remember, Bondi once hosted a gaggle of moronic “influencers” and sent them home with binders on Epstein, with promises of more to come. She has humiliated them. I’m open to theories, but it’s hard not to see that as an incredibly stupid bit of political malpractice.

***

In addition to the flailing, there’s the failing. The “unprecedented success” Trump fumes about is as elusive as the Epstein client list. The Big Billionaire Blowjob bill is unpopular now (and just wait until people find out what’s in it). Inflation is up, and the economy is starting to wobble thanks to Trump’s relentless and idiotic attacks on its load-bearing components.

I heard a clip of Hakeem Jeffries on Chris Hayes’ show, and Jeffries linked the Epstein matter to Trump’s general billionaire servicing and epic corruption. Seemed like a smart way to talk about it to me, as if it’s all of a piece, because fundamentally, it is.

The “presidential library” bribes Trump is receiving from giant corporations and tech titans are openly corrupt, as is the crypto grifting. Maybe none of this will matter. Maybe nothing will ever matter and Trump will get away with everything forever.

Or maybe the whole rotten edifice is about to fall into the abyss. I’m on Team Abyss.

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

179Comments

  1. 1.

    hells littlest angel

    July 16, 2025 at 5:25 pm

    In the linked article, Trump leaves open the door to further revelations at Pam Bondi’s discretion.

     

    Give her time. She’s creating the files as fast as she can.

  2. 2.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 16, 2025 at 5:29 pm

    “Daddy is… uncaring?! Daddy is… lying to us??!! Daddy… hates us???!!!”

  3. 3.

    RepubAnon

    July 16, 2025 at 5:30 pm

    Robespierre fed people to the guillotine during the Terror to boost his power – and eventually ended up as the last one taking the haircut.

  4. 4.

    rk

    July 16, 2025 at 5:30 pm

    Nothing surprises me about MAGA. Calling them morons is an insult to morons. But still, I’m still surprised that they think a sexual predator like Trump is going to expose a pedophile ring. Virginia Giuffre, who committed suicide last month worked at Mar-a-Lago during the summer where she was recruited by Ghislaine Maxwell. Trump was Epstein’s friend. Epstein spent a lot of time at Mar-a-Lago. I mean can these morons not even put two and two together? How do they function as human beings?

  5. 5.

    MattF

    July 16, 2025 at 5:30 pm

    It’s notable, at least in passing, how quickly Trump backed off from his plan to ‘fire’ the Fed chairman once the oligarchs weighed in and the bond market reacted. Ooops.

  6. 6.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2025 at 5:31 pm

    @hells littlest angel: That has occurred to me, but it’s also the sort of thing that people go to jail for.

  7. 7.

    Steve LaBonne

    July 16, 2025 at 5:32 pm

    @MattF: They have no problem with keeping his palm greased, but they’re not going to let him bankrupt them.

  8. 8.

    Splitting Image

    July 16, 2025 at 5:33 pm

    Everything Trump touches dies.

    At this point, Trump has touched his supporters to the tune of billions.

  9. 9.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2025 at 5:33 pm

    @rk: Also, the prosecutor who cut the sweetheart deal with Epstein was appointed as Labor Sec in Trump’s first term. And who was POTUS when Epstein died?

  10. 10.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 5:35 pm

    Jeffries linked the Epstein matter to Trump’s general billionaire servicing

    Phrasing!

  11. 11.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 5:36 pm

    Did Trump drink Mexican Coke with Jeffrey Epstein when they partied together?
    — Wajahat Ali (@wajali.bsky.social) Jul 16, 2025 at 5:35 PM

  12. 12.

    suzanne

    July 16, 2025 at 5:40 pm

    Or maybe the whole rotten edifice is about to fall into the abyss. I’m on Team Abyss.

    We need T-shirts.
    Seriously, that would be fun.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 5:41 pm

    The memo from Trump’s DOJ and FBI:
    “The files relating include a large volume of images and videos of victims who are either minors or appear to be minors…This review confirmed that Epstein harmed over one thousand victims.”

    Epstein’s crimes are not a hoax.

    justice.gov/opa/media/14...

    [image or embed]

    — Bill Kristol (@billkristolbulwark.bsky.social) Jul 16, 2025 at 5:33 PM

  14. 14.

    MattF

    July 16, 2025 at 5:41 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Here’s Bill O’Reilly attempting to blame Merrick Garland for not releasing the Epstein stuff. News host notes that Epstein was indicted, tried, convicted by Barr’s Justice Department and died before Biden was elected. Oooops.

  15. 15.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 16, 2025 at 5:41 pm

    Team Sane 

    Don’t have my scorecard handy; who’s on that team?

  16. 16.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 5:42 pm

    JD Vance has been quiet lately.

  17. 17.

    hells littlest angel

    July 16, 2025 at 5:42 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah. Some people.

  18. 18.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2025 at 5:43 pm

    I have to admit, that even in this, the stupidest of all possible timelines, I didn’t expect something THIS STOOPID to be Trump’s Kryptonite.

    At least, I hope it is. (Wait, is Kryptonite still a thing in this timeline? Or did the newest Superman story do away with it?)

  19. 19.

    hells littlest angel

    July 16, 2025 at 5:44 pm

    @MattF: TACO.

  20. 20.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2025 at 5:44 pm

    @Baud: Vance is a hard lurking guy.

  21. 21.

    Harrison Wesley

    July 16, 2025 at 5:45 pm

    @Baud: He’s staying in the background, just trying to blend in with the furniture,..

  22. 22.

    CaseyL

    July 16, 2025 at 5:46 pm

    O/T An earthquake off the Aleutian islands has triggered a tsunami warning.  I’m not sure what the magnitude was: some sources say 7.3 (!) but Alaska’s own earthquake center has it at 3.6.

    Any Alaska BJers in the area want to check in?

  23. 23.

    MattF

    July 16, 2025 at 5:47 pm

    @Harrison Wesley: But the furniture is not pleased with that.

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    July 16, 2025 at 5:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Sadly, we need a majority.

    (with all due apologies to Adlai Stevenson)

  25. 25.

    Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)

    July 16, 2025 at 5:52 pm

    This isn’t going to amount to anything.

    It’s the Ping Pong Pizza thing all over again. I’d be astounded if there even is A List™. And it isn’t like we even need a fucking list (or List™). Shit, we’ve seen the clips and snapshots of this creature laughing it up with Epstein a million times now. So have his base. They don’t care what he does, and never will.

    This shitshow has been going on for ten years now, and even if some of his MAGA people are feeling sad because Donny Two Dolls isn’t letting out The List™, none of these people [sic] are going to leave him. They’ve lived up inside his asshole since 2015, if not earlier, and if any of them have tentatively crawled out because they’re confused and hurt, be confident that within a week or two, they’ll crawl right back up in there.

    He’ll tell them that The List™ is Fake News™, and that Obama and Killary and Comey and, what the hell, probably Al Gore too, put it together to frame him, and they’ll eat it up. I mean, he already has said all this, but he’s too knocked off his stride to keep it up right now. But within a day or two, his handlers will get him back on track, and that’ll be the line he sticks to from here on out.

    This whole thing depresses the hell out of me. Not Trump’s flailing all over, but the Democrats’ reaction to it. I’ve been seeing shit for the last three days about “How Democrats are going to use this against Trump” or “Democrats seek to split MAGA over Epstein list” and shit like that.

    And it makes me think of nothing so much as of the Republican field in 2016, when Two Dolls first got something going. All of those clowns just sat around and waited for something to happen, something to knock Trump out of the race.

    Nobody was willing to do anything. They all sat there and waited for somebody else to stick the knife in, or more like, waited for some thunderbolt from On High to strike Trump down for them.

    This feels like the same shit, only now it’s Democrats who are doing this shit. I hope it’s only the wizened old “leaders” here, but they’re all just waiting for something to happen, for the Hand of God to come down and smite Trump so they don’t have to do anything. I mean, God forbid Schumer should stick his fucking neck out and, say, blackmail Republicans into giving Democrats something in exchange for raising the debt ceiling when instead he and ten other Democrats could just roll over and give Republicans what they wanted because it would be reckless to play with the full faith and credit of the United states.

    So they see this as a way to sink Trump and MAGA without having to do much of anything. But if there’s anything we should know by now, it’s that good things don’t just happen. Somebody has to make them happen.

  26. 26.

    Repatriated

    July 16, 2025 at 5:53 pm

    Attention:

    The Void is for screaming into.

    The Abyss is for staring into.

    Please do not scream into The Abyss, as our insurance does not cover that.

     

    Edit: wish I could remember where I saw it…

  27. 27.

    Spanky

    July 16, 2025 at 5:56 pm

    @Repatriated:

    “THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER”

  28. 28.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2025 at 5:57 pm

    Trump’s ‘truth’ on his personal social medium sounds to me like a man who’s scared.  And it’s hard to think of what he could be scared of with respect to Epstein besides having been one of the child rapists, and the possibility that his crimes are on video or otherwise verifiable.

    Before today, I really didn’t think it would turn out that Trump would prove to be one of the predators. A man preying on an adult woman can always claim it was consensual, and it can be hard for the woman to prove it wasn’t.  But none of that matters if one’s victim is underage, so I’d have figured that Trump’s survival instincts would have kept him out of that trouble.

    But maybe not.  I’m certainly starting to wonder.

  29. 29.

    rk

    July 16, 2025 at 5:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    And he said he was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence and he (Acosta) should back off.

    If we believe the numbers, more than 250 girls and young women were trafficked, but apparently to no body. Forget the MAGA morons, what on earth is this miscarriage of justice?

  30. 30.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2025 at 5:58 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):

    Oh, goodie, the latest installment of How Democrats Have Disappointed Me Today! Gosh, just in time, too – I was getting so antsy, figuring that with all this focusing on MAGAt malfeasance we might be losing sight of how everything everywhere is always the Democrats’ fault. Thank goodness you stepped up to the plate!

  31. 31.

    Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)

    July 16, 2025 at 6:01 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I have nothing but good things to say about most of the rank and file Democrats in Congress. And a lot of the governors are sensational. But the Congressional leadership, if you can call it that, reeks, and we aren’t doing anything to help ourselves if we make believe they don’t. And we have an election coming up in a little over a year, and I’d like to work on getting things in gear now, today, while we still have time. Schumer and a number of other geriatrics aren’t up for this fight. We need to think about finding people who are and doing whatever little we can to get them set up to do the heavy lifting.

  32. 32.

    rk

    July 16, 2025 at 6:02 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:   In 2016 a woman sued him claiming that she was abused by Trump when she was 16. Later she withdrew her charges because she was scared. So nothing of course is proven. But here is her testimony. The part where she says that he told her she looked like his daughter and other details sound plausible.

    youtube.com/watch?v=2-ioUWhVh3o&t=13s&ab_channel=TOPSECRETTruthTV

  33. 33.

    Danielx

    July 16, 2025 at 6:03 pm

    There sure do seem to be a lot of pictures of Trump and Epstein together, but the MAGAts do not grasp that Trump is in those mysterious files.

    Which is why he wants the whole thing to go away, sooner rather than later. It suited his short term interests to stoke speculation about Epstein back when, bearing in mind that long term for him is about three days.

  34. 34.

    Elizabelle

    July 16, 2025 at 6:04 pm

    @MattF:  He is claiming Biden hired Powell.  Ummmmmm ….

    Jerome Powell was appointed in 2018.

  35. 35.

    Princess

    July 16, 2025 at 6:04 pm

    @MattF: And what blew my mind was that it was a Fox News host who made it clear the conviction and suicide happened under Trump, not Biden.

  36. 36.

    Bulgakov

    July 16, 2025 at 6:06 pm

    I’m joining you on Team Abyss – should be a T shirt design

  37. 37.

    tobie

    July 16, 2025 at 6:10 pm

    I got an earful from a Trumper yesterday. I didn’t invite the conversation but I was meeting with him to get an estimate on a solar array. (I wasn’t thinking about doing this but since the Ugly Budget bill cuts the 30% tax credit after Dec 31, I figured I better hurry now.) It ends up this installer is a crypto bro and, best I can tell, doesn’t give a shit about what crypto means for the environment. I heard all about how the utilities are in bed with Wall St (no objection there) and Wall St is in be with the Dems (lots of objections) and if you want to side with “English-speaking” blue collar types, you need to join forces with the right wing. (Sure, I though, the NSDAP thought of itself as a worker’s party too). I heard all about how Obama and Biden discouraged home building to raise rent prices for their landlord friends; I heard tons about how skilled drywall guys were being replaced by illegals; how 87% of Americans earn less than $50K; how Dems did nothing for the working man when they had 4 years to do so; how “gain in function” research wasn’t research at all but an attempt to kill Americans.

    Suffice it to say, I won’t get solar from him. His price was good but I’m not going to support someone who blames everything on immigrants and scientists and globalists, which, I believe, is code for Jews.

  38. 38.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 6:11 pm

    On the one hand:
    — Epstein-gate is an EPIC fail for almost the ENTIRE MAGA-sphere, and one cannot but rejoice.
    — The damage to the Orange Guy specifically, and to the more general “movement,” is deep and lasting.  Yay again.
    — The national Democratic “leadership” does seem to be … responding to this (fkin UNBELIEVABLE) opportunity, so … maybe yay?
    — The Orange Guy is almost unimaginably thin-skinned, and this is burning him like a thousand suns.  Can’t really feel bad about that.

    On the other hand:
    — He’s making unimaginable bank out of the Presidency, which matters equally much to him (and his drooling idiot children will benefit, which is just wrong.)
    — The Usual Suspects of the Republican Party are likewise making unimaginable bank, at the expense of the rest of us.
    — The sideshow is distracting from the terrible suffering the sociopaths of P2025 and the Republican Party are inflicting on literally tens of millions of Americans.
    — The MAGAts will never blame the responsible people for what’s happening to them.
    — The Orange Guy is declining so rapidly he may never realize he was used good and hard and will be left to twist slowly in the wind.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 6:13 pm

    @tobie:

    Hope the decency tax you’ll pay for someone else isn’t too high.

  40. 40.

    Miss Bianca

    July 16, 2025 at 6:16 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): Well, you go for it, Daddy-O. Step right up to the plate and become a leader! You know how to do that, right?  All you gotta do is promise to do…leaderly stuff. You know, leaderly stuff like pushing all the olds onto the ice floes. Since age is apparently *the* biggest thing that matters these days as applied to Democrats. And only Democrats, apparently, since Republicans appear perfectly fine with electing old people.

    Wait a minute, tho…how old are *you*? You gotta be *only this old* to ride this carnival ride. Don’t be on the wrong side of the divide! Or before you know it, someone else will be accusing *you* of being old and out of touch.

  41. 41.

    tobie

    July 16, 2025 at 6:19 pm

    @Baud: There are times when you need to have principles! I’m sure any company I go with will have its share of a-holes. I’d just prefer to keep the relationship professional and not hear about their political views.

  42. 42.

    Ryan

    July 16, 2025 at 6:19 pm

    And he let it be known today that he’s considering firing Powell very soon.  Keep stirring this pot!  He’s cracking!

  43. 43.

    Timill

    July 16, 2025 at 6:19 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): I think this is covered by “not interrupting your enemy when they’re making a mistake”…

  44. 44.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 16, 2025 at 6:20 pm

    @tobie: I won’t get solar from him. His price was good

    From what you described sounds like there is a good chance of fraud from this dear.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 6:20 pm

    @tobie:

    I’d just prefer to keep the relationship professional

     

    100% this. In some industries, it’s hard to find people that aren’t right wing. But they shouldn’t be talking politics on the job any more than they should be talking about their sex life.

  46. 46.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 6:21 pm

    @CaseyL: That would be a M7.3 near Sand Point, Alaska.  Haven’t checked the Alaska Earthquake center, they might not be updating as fast.

    I’m not in Alaska, so I have to rely on the “Did You Feel It?” reports.  Still need to check NOAA tide gauges (are they still available?) for a tsunami signal.

  47. 47.

    SW

    July 16, 2025 at 6:23 pm

    How god damn stupid do you have to be to believe there is an inch of daylight between Trump and Bondi that she isn’t doing exactly what Trump is ordering her to do?

  48. 48.

    SW

    July 16, 2025 at 6:27 pm

    @tobie: Where does that fuckwit think the technology he is selling came from?

  49. 49.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 6:28 pm

    @JetsamPool: Failed to include link to earthquake page.

  50. 50.

    WaterGirl

    July 16, 2025 at 6:35 pm

    @SW: I know, I know, pick me!

    Really fucking stupid, as well as proudly ignorant.

  51. 51.

    Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)

    July 16, 2025 at 6:35 pm

    @Timill: Yes, I think that’s the best thing Democrats can do. Get the fuck out of the way, and root for injuries.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 6:36 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    No, you’re not!

  53. 53.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 6:42 pm

    @Baud: concur, and if the word in the ether is “yeah he’s an asshoole but he does a high-quality job” then fine, hire him and minimize unnecessary contact, but otherwise he deserves to lose the opportunity because of his willingly offensive presentation.

  54. 54.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 6:45 pm

    @JetsamPool: @CaseyL: Ho-ly jumping shockwaved salmon, Batman, 7.3 is substantial!  Yikes!

  55. 55.

    Harrison Wesley

    July 16, 2025 at 6:45 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Wasn’t it Dubyuh who used the term “leaderamalizering?”

  56. 56.

    Doc Sardonic

    July 16, 2025 at 6:49 pm

    @SW: Pretty stupid….. Trump bought Bondi for a $25,000 “campaign” donation after she botched the Zimmerman case and her future plan to run for Governor was then DOA. She will do whatever Trump tells her to do.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 6:50 pm

    BREAKING: Justice Department fires SDNY federal prosecutor Maurene Comey, who played key role prosecuting Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, per @eorden politico.com/news/2025/07/16/maurene-comey-fired-doj-00458921

    [image or embed]
    — Josh Gerstein (@joshgerstein.bsky.social) Jul 16, 2025 at 6:41 PM

     

    ETA: James Comey’s daughter

  58. 58.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 6:53 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): I disagree with your conclusion.

    One of the operative problems in our society right now is that to a large degree nobody is available to persuasion. That is, Democrats can’t walk MAGA to an island of sensible politics because MAGA is not going to listen to Democrats. Like, at all. The problem isn’t that Democrats are bad at reaching out to them, the problem is that they’re wasting time trying.

    So the only way out of this jam is for people to become disillusioned with their tribe on their own or from within their own tribe. You can pull people out of there, but it normally requires a family member, close friend, etc. Politicians can’t do it.

    What Epstein represents is an opportunity for that to happen. If you recognize what mode of thought the conspiracy holds for people (see my comment in the previous thread) and you see a crack form there, you can shove wedges into that crack and help it along. Those wedges are pointing out contradictions at the heart of the theory – pointing out that yes, this is the moment you should get all of your questions answered, why aren’t they pouring out like you were promised? It’s a type of sympathizing with the worst people in order to crack the theory apart and break that spell. It doesn’t bring us a single voter. None of these people are going to side with Democrats, and if Democrats are too open in trying to take Trump down they risk MAGA closing ranks because they sure as shit aren’t going to side with us over him if we force that choice. BUT, if that spell is broken, then Trump loses a LOT of his support, mainly support for his most extreme ideas. These people will become disillusioned and they’ll retreat from politics. Now, other Republicans will fill the void, but it’ll be a bit less extreme, they’ll be more open to reason with, and the GOP will have lost a decent chunk of their most reliable voters. It allows politics to work in a more normal manner.

    This is potentially a really big thing. Yeah, it doesn’t look like it. I understand the cynicism that this will go just like everything else – but this is sort of the core of the project, and I don’t think he understands exactly what it holds for his followers or how to navigate it. His excuses that this is all a product of the left isn’t going to work – the whole fucking point of all of this was that it would finally expose the left, and they finally had a Republican who was willing to do it – that’s why all the weird hagiography is there, with Trump as superman or Christ or whatever. The conspiracy is the spinning neutron core at the center of everything that brought him to this point. He can’t just wave that away. He’s not Jesus, he’s just a dumb guy that figured out he could exploit and steer the conspiracy, but he can’t deny it – the conspiracy holds everything together. And now he’s trying to deny it, and everything is built off of it. He was able to get away with all of the other stuff because he didn’t deny this piece. If you think this is a cult, that is the Macguffin at the center of it, not Trump. Trump is just the vehicle that allows it to be mainstream and visible and allow it to resolve. He’s very important, but he’s still secondary.

  59. 59.

    Trivia Man

    July 16, 2025 at 6:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker: and who was AG? None other than Barr Jr who had a long and deep connection with JE. Barr sr was the one who launched JE into the upper circles of power.

  60. 60.

    mappy!

    July 16, 2025 at 6:59 pm

    Meanwhile, on the fake-economy front, just for a change of pace…
    The price on my periodic purchase of a case (six 12oz per) of 8 O’Clock Decaf is now $53.15.  On March 20 it was $35.33. (I should check what it was in 2021.)​
    ​
    ED (Nov 20, 2021: $35.88)

  61. 61.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 7:01 pm

    @bbleh: Luckily the area is pretty remote, so damage will be limited.  It doesn’t appear to have generated a tsunami when I checked the nearest tide gauges, which are fortunately still online.  It was a bit small and had the wrong focal mechanism for a significant tsunami, but I like to check anyway.

  62. 62.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 7:02 pm

    it’s like that quote about going bankrupt: “slowly, and then all at once”

    may it be so!  the champagne continues to chill, waiting for its moment

  63. 63.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 7:04 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: I don’t think he has to be in order to be scared. I think he just needs to be in there a lot.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think he has all the qualities to be one of the clients. He’s objectified his own daughters, he’s admitted to walking in on Teen Miss USA when they were undressing. Like, he’s clearly cleared a lot of the hard hurdles to being a pedophile. Pretty much the only thing left is opportunity, and he had that too.

    But, let’s say for the sake of argument he resisted the opportunity. We know some of the girls were recruited at Mar a Lago, at parties. We know he was good friends with Epstein. There’s going to be a LOT of information in there that includes Trump, even peripherally, and people that are in the intersection of Trump and Epstein. And there’s not going to be anything in there suggesting that he was trying to stop it or protect people. Even if we give him every benefit of the doubt, it’s going to look bad for him.

    And once the flies are opened, what happens if it doesn’t reveal the left, the coastal elites, to all be the most horrible people? What if it falls flat. What happens to the vast left wing conspiracy and crooked Hillary and crooked Biden and all the promises that it was supposed to contain. All that falls flat. These people weren’t following Trump because of his monetary policy, they were following him because he was going to expose their enemies once and for all. And all that falls away.

    This is the McCarthy files turned up to 27. ‘In these files I have the names of known communists’. Well, he didn’t. And once it fell apart he lost almost all of his juice, because it was all tied to that promise to expose their enemies.

  64. 64.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 7:06 pm

    @bbleh:The Orange Guy is declining so rapidly he may never realize he was used good and hard and will be left to twist slowly in the wind.

    Here’s hoping that Shadow Presidents Vought, Miller, Wiles, and Roberts do one of those Reservoir Dogs-style things once trumpov shuffles off this mortal coil

  65. 65.

    JoyceH

    July 16, 2025 at 7:06 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: You’re just NOW starting to wonder? Personally I’ve always considered Trump to be the most plausible of all the names mentioned in connection to Epstein to have actually been a client. Clinton had always been a horndog but he was never even rumored to have been involved with a woman under 21. Trump, on the other hand, was always famous for a leering interest in teenagers. Heck, he owned that Miss Teen pageant and publicly bragged about barging into the girls’ dressing room.

    And I would like to see a lot more investigative reporting on his skeevy Trump Modeling Agency, which had as its business plan the recruiting of young girls from Eastern Europe. Seems weird when you consider that we have plenty of pretty teenagers right here in the USA. Of course, American teens come inconveniently supplied with family and friends and a support structure that would take interest if anything too bad happened to the girls. Nobody from Trump’s agency actually had a successful modeling career, but they often got detailed to glitzy parties – maybe just to be background decoration, but … who really knows?

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 7:08 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):the best thing Democrats can do: Get the fuck out of the way, and root for injuries.

    um hello…I think we can kick them while they’re down going absolutely apeshit on each other

  67. 67.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 7:08 pm

    “Their new SCAM is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax, and my PAST supporters have bought into this ‘bullshit,’ hook, line, and sinker,” Trump wrote in a missive on Truth Social. “They haven’t learned their lesson, and probably never will, even after being conned by the Lunatic Left for 8 long years.”

    Sounds like the senile, demented, pussy-grabbing pile of shit can still remember that he’s also a pedo.

  68. 68.

    MoCaAce

    July 16, 2025 at 7:08 pm

    @Baud:

    Jeffries linked the Epstein matter to Trump’s general billionaire servicing

    I think the phrasing is spot on. 

  69. 69.

    Betty Cracker

    July 16, 2025 at 7:17 pm

    [MAGA world suddenly looking at the photos and videos of Trump being weird with teenage girls and putting it together like the end of “The Usual Suspects” only it takes three hours because there’s a LOT of material to get through]

  70. 70.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2025 at 7:18 pm

    I just listened to the CBS Radio News “Evening Roundup.” AM radio reception was kind of scratchy on account of local thunderstorms, but they led off with the Epstein controversy:

    “President Trump [something something] and a story that won’t die.”

    Trump just keeps digging the hole deeper. “He protesteth too much.” Way too much.

  71. 71.

    eclare

    July 16, 2025 at 7:19 pm

    Beautiful photo today.

  72. 72.

    rattlemullet

    July 16, 2025 at 7:21 pm

    What is not a conspiracy is that DJT and Jeffery Epstein were best friends for 15 years or more. DJT  was frequent flyer on the Lolita Express and more than an occasional visitor to his island resort. There are thousand of photos that exist of Epstein’s exploits as well as his clients he had “serviced” by underaged girls. There is no doubt that DJT is a pedophile. The rot that is the GOP and MAGA deplorable’s cannot see the forest for the trees, their leader, their savior is in fact a pedophile.

  73. 73.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    July 16, 2025 at 7:28 pm

    @Betty Cracker: The thing about MAGAts is that they think either that they won’t get caught, or that Cheatolini will be in a position to pardon them – which they apparently take as “all my transgressions are forgiven whether it says that or not.”

  74. 74.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 7:29 pm

    @Jeffro: I am firmly of the school that, should the Dear Leader be called home to the Lord, the leadership of the MAGAverse — Executive, Legislative, media, influencers, and hangers-on — would disintegrate into frantic cannibalistic bloodletting, in which the ugliness and body-count would be exceeded only by an appalling degree of looting and burning.  It would be the last days of Berlin.

  75. 75.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 7:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker: “I have sucked Trump’s ass for the past ten years, and my orange godking is Kaiser Pedo!”

  76. 76.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    July 16, 2025 at 7:32 pm

    @Baud: IIRC it was Colombian coke, and they snorted it.

  77. 77.

    azlib

    July 16, 2025 at 7:35 pm

    Good summary by the Electoral-Vote folks:

    electoral-vote.com/evp2025/Items/Jul16-3.html

  78. 78.

    Betty

    July 16, 2025 at 7:37 pm

    @Betty Cracker: According to Bill O’Reilly, Biden was President then. That was too much even for the Fox news guy.

  79. 79.

    MattF

    July 16, 2025 at 7:42 pm

    @bbleh: Or the Kremlin at the death of Stalin. Beria+troika took over at Stalin’s demise and lasted for three months. Executed six months later.

  80. 80.

    twbrandt

    July 16, 2025 at 7:44 pm

    @MattF: that was one of the funniest clips I’ve seen in a while.

  81. 81.

    Ealbert

    July 16, 2025 at 7:46 pm

    @Repatriated:

    Back when they were filming the movie The Abyss, and everyone was getting upper respiratory infections, reportedly they had t-shirts printed up that said “Life is Abyss, and then you dive”.

  82. 82.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    July 16, 2025 at 7:51 pm

    @Baud: He’s afraid the Chesterfield will squeal.

  83. 83.

    Suzanne

    July 16, 2025 at 7:52 pm

    @bbleh: I might agree with you. I don’t see this as a coherent political movement. It’s really fandom, and that doesn’t transfer.

  84. 84.

    hueyplong

    July 16, 2025 at 7:57 pm

    You all have me imagining “Death of Stalin” scenarios.

  85. 85.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 16, 2025 at 7:57 pm

    @tobie: Good decision.

    Also, you’re stronger than I am. I’d have collapsed in apoplexy if I had to listen to that. I’m hyperventilating just reading it.

  86. 86.

    geg6

    July 16, 2025 at 7:59 pm

    @suzanne:

    I’d buy and wear it.

  87. 87.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2025 at 8:00 pm

    “It’s also come to YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT’S Attention many of you don’t like YMCA, the Single Greatest Song in the History of Songs! SAD!!!”
    //

  88. 88.

    Nettoyeur

    July 16, 2025 at 8:00 pm

    @Jeffro: I am hoping for something like the Death of Stalin, which, although making use of artistic license , actually captured some of the essence of the Kremlin insanity of that era.

  89. 89.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 16, 2025 at 8:01 pm

    Apparently the DoJ has backed off whatever legal action they were threatening against Kos.

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 8:02 pm

    @bbleh: me too

    I just hope they rat each other out (the ones who were bought in rubles especially) on a rolling and sustained basis.

    Otherwise they’ll be done before Halloween and then our blessed short-term memory American public will enter 2026 like, “hmm…who to vote for, who to vote for…”

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 8:04 pm

    @Suzanne: [MAGA]’s really fandom,[for trumpov] and that doesn’t transfer.

    have to agree

    it’s not like this kludge of a party is going to hold itself together and rally behind…JDivans.  Or Marco Rubio.

    And even when a Kemp or Youngkin steps in and tries to bring the party together against the hated Dems…do they have the ever fabled ‘juice’?  I think not.

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    July 16, 2025 at 8:05 pm

    Ewww.

    I spent 24 hours flirting with Elon Musk’s AI girlfriend.

  93. 93.

    Bill Arnold

    July 16, 2025 at 8:07 pm

    Or maybe the whole rotten edifice is about to fall into the abyss. I’m on Team Abyss.

    I’m on Team Abyss as well.
    Those who care should be working on breaking that edifice/pushing it off the edge, into the Abyss.

  94. 94.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 8:09 pm

    @Suzanne: It’s really fandom…

    Even worse, it’s a depraved personality cult.  They’re prone to those — Reagan, even Shrub FFS.

  95. 95.

    Prometheus Shrugged

    July 16, 2025 at 8:10 pm

    @JetsamPool: It was fairly deep (20 km), so, luckily, the rupture likely didn’t result in the surface displacement necessary for significant tsunami generation.

    I have friends who work on NOAA’s Pacific wave and tide buoy network.  There are discussions currently to try to keep it going with philanthropy until the sanity returns to D.C.  It requires a constant vigil to stay ahead of the idiocy.

  96. 96.

    satby

    July 16, 2025 at 8:12 pm

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): whatever

  97. 97.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 16, 2025 at 8:14 pm

     

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):Not Trump’s flailing all over, but the Democrats’ reaction to it. I’ve been seeing shit for the last three days about “How Democrats are going to use this against Trump” or “Democrats seek to split MAGA over Epstein list” and shit like that.

    This is precisely why my reflex reaction is to simply ignore white men.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 8:15 pm

    Nice

     

    In response to White House staffer Stephen Miller’s comments, Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty said: “If we wanted a white supremacist’s opinion, we’d ask. But we don’t. So we won’t. Also, Minneapolis is great.”

    [image or embed]
    — Minnesota Star Tribune (@startribune.com) Jul 16, 2025 at 8:00 PM

  99. 99.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    July 16, 2025 at 8:18 pm

    @Baud: S N A P

  100. 100.

    CaseyL

    July 16, 2025 at 8:18 pm

    @JetsamPool: ​
     

    Wow – that’s a lot of information; thanks!

    I am very glad there wasn’t more destruction, but also surprised: anything north of 7 magnitude is considered a major quake.

  101. 101.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 8:20 pm

    So the orange rapist Kremlin bitch is yelling at Coca Cola tonight.  (No, Jeffrey Epstein’s good friend doesn’t want them to re-introduce cocaine into the recipe – surprisingly.)

    Fuck me in the goat ass! -Adam Sandler

  102. 102.

    Hoodie

    July 16, 2025 at 8:20 pm

    @Martin:

    We know he was good friends with Epstein. There’s going to be a LOT of information in there that includes Trump, even peripherally, and people that are in the intersection of Trump and Epstein. And there’s not going to be anything in there suggesting that he was trying to stop it or protect people . . .

    And once the flies are opened, what happens if it doesn’t reveal the left, the coastal elites, to all be the most horrible people?

    This seems the most likely scenario.  Remember all that evidence he supposedly got from private detectives that Obama was not born in the US?  That never showed up either, but he never got called on that because it became water over the dam after Obama left office.  After all, the genesis of all that was just race-inspired hatred/fear of Obama, which really didn’t depend on his birth status.  They didn’t need convincing that he wasn’t a real American.

    Pedophilia and sex trafficking is another matter.  If there was something really damning about Trump in the investigative files on Epstein you would think he would have buried the whole thing in his first presidency and never brought it up again.   Maybe that’s why you give Acosta a cabinet post to buy his silence about anything to do with Mar-a-Lago, etc.  Sometime later, however, he was pretty desperate to get re-elected and needed to expand his base because a lot of normies had soured on him after the COVID chaos. IIRC, he didn’t really go into the Qanon orbit until around that time, when he also started playing footsie with the anti-vax crowd.   He campaign was a maximize-the-base affair, so he needed those folks. He saw the sizeable backlash to vaccines coming from those quarters and wanted to co-opt that.  At that point, he wasn’t being all that selective about who he brought into the MAGA orbit and what conspiracies he cosigned, even if it they were ones for which he might be required to provide actual results that might pose problems for him.

  103. 103.

    Hoodie

    July 16, 2025 at 8:22 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: He’s also talking about an EO on NIL in college football.   He does seem a bit desperate to change the subject.

  104. 104.

    hueyplong

    July 16, 2025 at 8:27 pm

    I wonder if the Internet would break if Ghislaine Maxwell suddenly decided to commit suicide in custody.

  105. 105.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 8:28 pm

    @Hoodie: lol ya think?  Also frothing about firing Jerome Powell, as though anybody outside Teh Media and the 1% knows who HE is.

    Paddle harder, Donny!  Here, catch this anchor

    @hueyplong: in my darker moments, I imagine she Got The Message good and loud, and we will hear nothin’ ’bout nothin’ from Ms Maxwell.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    July 16, 2025 at 8:29 pm

    Via reddit

    Rural America is dying out, with 81% of rural counties recording more deaths than births

  107. 107.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 8:30 pm

    @Suzanne: I think it is a political movement – it’s as if the John Birch society had successfully gotten a Barry Goldwater who had thrown everything behind their conspiracies over the line. Because that’s more or less what MAGA is, the continuation of the Birchers (in exact policy in quite a few cases) with this almost religious focus on the sort of deep state/Epstein conspiracy, with a leader that is more charismatic and facile at lying, and more committed to the cause at the head of it. So it does take on this cult like form, but Trump is still there to do a job – which is to expose the deep state – and we in this moment are seeing the reminder of that job. It’s a political movement, just a very weird one based on a bananas conspiracy theory.

    So I argue it some of both, and the question is then which is stronger. I’m arguing it’s the allegiance to the conspiracy and not Trump personally. Trump is trying to brush this off and it’s not working. In the past MAGA would do the work of justifying the inconsistency on his behalf. They’re not doing that now. In fact, they’re doing the opposite. Congress is now moving support that way as well.

    The motives here for Republicans in Congress are really messy. Surely there are some true believers that are breaking with Trump over this and some nonbelievers that just reflexively side with Trump that are pushing to block the release. But I think there’s two other camps as well – those that don’t buy this bullshit but are afraid of MAGA and see that as the safer team to be on, and those that don’t buy this bullshit and see pushing for transparency to be a way to undermine Trump because they want this to end. Problem is you can’t really tell them apart very well and why I think the ground is shifting as everyone tries to figure out how to navigate a completely novel political landscape. The only safe group are Democrats who finally have an opportunity to hand out some anchors.

  108. 108.

    Jeffro

    July 16, 2025 at 8:30 pm

    @Baud: that’s just freakin’ excellent

  109. 109.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 8:35 pm

    @Baud: yes, and of those who WERE born but have the means and opportunity, many flee, never to return.  Seen it.  And while much of it is only sad, some of it — alas — is of their own making.

  110. 110.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 8:35 pm

    @Hoodie:

    Remember all that evidence he supposedly got from private detectives that Obama was not born in the US? 

    Dump never paid detectives for shit.

    The racist manbaby just wanted the media to pay attention to his orange ass – and the media sucked Dump’s ass like an oxygen tank.

  111. 111.

    Argiope

    July 16, 2025 at 8:35 pm

    OT? After Dark? Check and check.  So I’m finishing up a clinical textbook and the publishers have an official inclusive language review that they do, which is a great idea to make sure that textbooks don’t perpetuate stereotypes.  However, whatever program or person they are using has some truly farcical suggestions.  The male genital exam is part of this book, and the text directs the clinician to ask the patient to “retract the foreskin to show the glans”.  The reviewer’s recommendation to replace the term “show” reads verbatim:
    Category: Ableism| accessibility
    Suggestion: indicate | demonstrate | present | display
    Ummmm, nope.  We are not going to be asking people to  “display” or “present” their glans.  Not in any clinic setting I’ve ever seen.  A little too….festive.  Also?  This is a visual inspection.  Blind clinicians are going to need to sit this one out or have a colleague do the looking for them.  Anyway, I’m just about deceased and figured others could also use a laugh.

  112. 112.

    different-church-lady

    July 16, 2025 at 8:35 pm

    He’s not doing a very good job of looking innocent, is he.

  113. 113.

    Anyway

    July 16, 2025 at 8:36 pm

    @Baud: Rural America is dying out, with 81% of rural counties recording more deaths than births

    and still so many seats in Congress …

  114. 114.

    me

    July 16, 2025 at 8:38 pm

    @bbleh: Marc Andreessen is a perfect example.

    I KNEW FROM THE NEW YORKER THAT ANDREESSEN had grown up in an impoverished agricultural small town in Wisconsin, and despised it. But I certainly was not prepared for his vituperation on the subject. He made it clear that people who chose not to leave such places deserved whatever impoverishment, cultural and political neglect, and alienation they suffered.

  115. 115.

    different-church-lady

    July 16, 2025 at 8:38 pm

    @MattF: “Details, details…”

  116. 116.

    different-church-lady

    July 16, 2025 at 8:39 pm

    @me: Hmmm… sounds (JDVANCE) familiar…

  117. 117.

    MagdaInBlack

    July 16, 2025 at 8:39 pm

    @different-church-lady: Are you saying you’re not convinced?

  118. 118.

    catclub

    July 16, 2025 at 8:40 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: No way there is video of him. Epstein was first given a pass in the GwBush admin.

    If they had video of Trump he would have been destroyed by the Bush family in 2015.

  119. 119.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 8:41 pm

    @Baud: I’m curious how durable this new political speech is going to be. See Newsom:

    Governor Newsom Press Office @GovPressOffice

    This fascist cuck in DC continues his assault on democracy and the Constitution, and his attempt to replace the sovereignty of the people with autocracy.
    Sorry the Constitution hurt your feelings, Stephen.
    Cry harder.

  120. 120.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 8:41 pm

    @Prometheus Shrugged: It was also a strike-slip earthquake, so odds of a tsunami are lower.

     

    I really like the NOAA Tides and Currents page.  I check them after earthquakes and during hurricanes.  I hope they can survive.

  121. 121.

    Kristine

    July 16, 2025 at 8:41 pm

    @Martin:

    And once the flies are opened,

    Freudian typo

  122. 122.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 8:42 pm

    @bbleh:

    Paddle harder, Donny! Here, catch this anchor 

    Resign and flee to Russia or North Korea already!

  123. 123.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 8:42 pm

    @hueyplong: Yeah, I suspect that would.

  124. 124.

    catclub

    July 16, 2025 at 8:43 pm

    @Martin: and the question is then which is stronger. I’m arguing it’s the allegiance to the conspiracy and not Trump personally.

     

    I think it is Trump. They will drop it when it is no longer on Fox news.

  125. 125.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 8:44 pm

    @Baud: White Trump trash need to start fucking if they want their glorious white nation then!

    Oh, which rural hospitals will deliver their babies?

  126. 126.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 8:44 pm

    @bbleh: The GOP has been using the tropes and trappings of religion since Reagan.  I keep wondering if this time they will tip over into starting a new religion (ew!).

  127. 127.

    me

    July 16, 2025 at 8:44 pm

    @Martin: ​
     Ugh, I understand what he’s trying to do but it’s gross.

  128. 128.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 8:46 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: The Jane Doe/Katie Johnson deposition from 2016 before she withdrew her lawsuit citing death threats is available online. She alleges she was thirteen when first Trump and then Epstein raped her and both hit her when she pleaded they stop. She alleges Epstein hit her with a closed fist shouting at her that it should have been him and not Trump who should have taken her virginity. The woman who arranged for her to meet them has filed an affidavit in support of this victim’s statement. Believe it or not, there is more. Both men, she alleges, raped her on other occasions WHEN SHE WAS THIRTEEN YEARS OLD!

  129. 129.

    JetsamPool

    July 16, 2025 at 8:47 pm

    @CaseyL: You can get significant damage with a ~M6 earthquake, it all depends on local building codes.  A M7 is major and will cause damage, by the time you get to M8 only the most stringently built structures survive.

  130. 130.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 8:47 pm

    Ooh, CNN sez USA SDNY prosecutor in Epstein case fired for unknown reason.

    cnn.com/2025/07/16/politics/maurene-comey-fired-sdny

    Goood timing there, Pam!  I mean, wow, that is some kinda media savvy!

  131. 131.

    catclub

    July 16, 2025 at 8:47 pm

    @Hoodie: ​
     

    If there was something really damning about Trump in the investigative files on Epstein you would think he would have buried the whole thing in his first presidency and never brought it up again.

    But first the GwBush family would have buried him with it in 2015. Epstein was given a pass during the GwBush maladmin. Happy days.

  132. 132.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 16, 2025 at 8:49 pm

    @Argiope: “Hey sailor, you sexy beast.  Present me your genitalia.”

  133. 133.

    zhena gogolia

    July 16, 2025 at 8:50 pm

    @Argiope: 😂

  134. 134.

    hedgehog mobile

    July 16, 2025 at 8:51 pm

    @suzanne: /shut up and take my money  gìf/

  135. 135.

    bbleh

    July 16, 2025 at 8:53 pm

    @Argiope: @mrmoshpotato: lol. “would you kindly display your glans?”  “um … wut?”

  136. 136.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 8:55 pm

    @tobie: He sounds far too loose-mouthed to be a shrewd business person.

  137. 137.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2025 at 8:56 pm

    @Jeffro: I just saw video posted of a 17 year-old Stephen Miller talking about how great torture was. He  was yakking with some Army soldiers who laughed with him. This was during the Iraq war.

    Ankara-based Clash Report posted the video and described it as “leaked” so I think it just turned up. I’ll post more about this later.

  138. 138.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2025 at 8:57 pm

    @Martin: ​

    And there’s not going to be anything in there suggesting that he was trying to stop it or protect people. Even if we give him every benefit of the doubt, it’s going to look bad for him.

    Maybe, but I can see it shaking out in a not-particularly-bad way for him. If there’s little proof that he knew these girls were underage – hell, I can’t always tell a 16 year old from a 20 year old, and with a son who’s turning 18 and has a lot of female friends, I’m about as well situated as a person can be to do so – then I can see it turning into a big nothingburger.

    “You should have realized these girls were underage.” “Well, they looked young, but I figured they had to be 18.” The MAGAts aren’t going to desert him if that’s all anyone has on him.

    And maybe they were expecting this to be the moment when all the Demon Rats get exposed for what they really are, but they’ve been through that before. Remember Hunter Biden’s laptop? The MAGAts aren’t going to desert him over that either.

    All this sort of thing is not going to get him to shit his pants. He’s weaseled out of worse. But if he remembers that he had actual sex with actual 16 year olds, that would do the trick. Even the MAGAts would have a hard time ignoring that.

  139. 139.

    Argiope

    July 16, 2025 at 8:59 pm

    @azlib: This was great–thanks.

  140. 140.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 9:01 pm

    @bbleh: Yeah. When I visited my mom in Iowa last year we went to a  corn maze in some remote town. It was really hard because you could see the arc of the town. There was this little downtown next to the enormous co-op silos that had storefronts and apartments over top and they were all abandoned – every one. The gas station had closed. There was one building that looked a bit like a general store, but very tiny and run down, and one mechanic. You could see this was once a town for farm workers in the era before full ag automation – you could tell there was once a workforce and jobs – but no longer. There were a bunch of houses but was unclear where they worked – Des Moines was about 25 minutes away, so probably there. Best as I could tell there were 3 farms – one huge one on one side of town which was probably the consolidation of a bunch of ones from decades ago as the first guy to get a tractor could undercut the others and then buy them out – these farms only work at a certain scale now, another huge one on the other side of town, same story, and a smallish one we went to that was basically just tourism. They grew various things which they sold there, but they weren’t selling to Hyvee. They had the maze, and a bunch of other activities for kids, and a stand, etc. Couldn’t really tell if they were getting by or not. All I could do was leave a big tip.

    Who needs a store when there’s Amazon and Tractor Supply online. Not sure how much they needed the mechanic. These large tractors are pretty advanced and often require technicians. Gas was probably a gallon away round trip. The farms would have their own tanks. No jobs other than the little store and the mechanic. I doubt any of the farms had work. Maybe a little seasonal stuff. Maybe a job at the co-op?

    There’s just no space for small business. Nobody’s going to open a store out there – there’s not enough people. You need ~50,000 people to get a Costco built. Walmart will move in with less, but they’ll completely eat the town of businesses, everyone will end up working at Walmart, not being able to afford to shop at Walmart, and then the Walmart will close because they sucked the economy dry.

  141. 141.

    u

    July 16, 2025 at 9:02 pm

    Damn.  I’m actually surprised that the men in the Cult of Trump actually care about Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes.  I picture the average MAGA man as being a guy who’d be only too happy to pick up thirteen-year-old girls from the local middle school.  Maybe there is actually a line that they will not cross.

  142. 142.

    Argiope

    July 16, 2025 at 9:02 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Hahahahaha perfect!  Meets all inclusive language criteria. I am tempted to make that edit and see if they notice.  We can always fix it in copyedits.

  143. 143.

    SW

    July 16, 2025 at 9:05 pm

    @Baud: Whenever I travel through the plains past the nearly abandoned small towns and empty spaces I marvel that we committed genocide for this.

  144. 144.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 9:05 pm

    @bbleh: Please, please, please God, make him sneeze while he’s straining to poop!!!!

  145. 145.

    u

    July 16, 2025 at 9:07 pm

    @Martin: Yes.  Ordinary people are being screwed all over the country — but it’s worse in rural areas.  And then the rural voters elect guys like Trump who make it worse for them.  And they don’t learn.

  146. 146.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2025 at 9:08 pm

    @Geminid: ​

    I just listened to the CBS Radio News “Evening Roundup.” AM radio reception was kind of scratchy on account of local thunderstorms, but they led off with the Epstein controversy:

    “President Trump [something something] and a story that won’t die.”

    When you’re far enough in the boonies that you sometimes long for the bright lights of Stanardsville, I guess that’s the sort of radio reception you sometimes get. I remember me and another counselor trying to listen to Senators games through static from a summer camp in tidewater Virginia; our bright lights were Aylett, Central Garage, and West Point.

    Trump just keeps digging the hole deeper. “He protesteth too much.” Way too much.

    Yeppers.

  147. 147.

    Suzanne

    July 16, 2025 at 9:08 pm

    @Baud: Urbanization is the undeniable pattern of human movement right now, in the U.S. and worldwide. Even countries that have declining populations are having their cities grow. This is much of why building more housing in and adjacent to cities is so critical.

  148. 148.

    frosty

    July 16, 2025 at 9:10 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: ​
     Your suckass schtick finally wore me out. Into the pie safe with you.

  149. 149.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 16, 2025 at 9:15 pm

    @Baud: ​
    Mary Moriarty is my new hero.

  150. 150.

    Archon

    July 16, 2025 at 9:16 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: Trump pledging to bring to justice this criminal conspiracy of pedophiles only to be like, “surprise! I was part of it but hey I thought they were 18!”, isn’t gonna cut it, even for the MAGA cult.

  151. 151.

    p.a.

    July 16, 2025 at 9:27 pm

    tRump is so far gone his handlers may have had to talk him down from issuing a sharpie-d report accusing every notable Dem back to FDR.

  152. 152.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 9:29 pm

    @Martin: You shine the light of your laser mind on it!

  153. 153.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 9:33 pm

    @me: It is, but sometimes politics is gross.

    The Dukakis answer on the death penalty was policy wise the correct answer, but politically the wrong answer. The correct political answer would have been to say that if his wife had been raped and murdered he want to personally choke the son of a bitch to death himself and *that* why the death penalty should be banned because its impossible to distinguish between justice and revenge. The correct answer is gross.

    When Trump called Ted Cruz’s wife ugly, we dunk on him for doing the wrong thing – which was nothing. He should have punched Trump in the mouth because someone running for president doesn’t get to punch down on individuals outside of politics and she deserved to be defended. Again, it’s gross, but it would have been just.

    Stephen Miller describes how wonderful California would be if we cleaned it of Latinos. Those people deserve to be defended. We should stand up against that and Newsom did right there. I

    None of these things change anything around the target of the matter. Miller isn’t going to change his views because of that tweet. But I bet there are a bunch of voters that feel a little better that someone is willing to be gross on their behalf and they wouldn’t have been if Newsom had accurately recited some federal statute instead. If the right are going to so aggressively punch down, we’re gonna have to learn how to punch up.

  154. 154.

    Geminid

    July 16, 2025 at 9:36 pm

    @Anyway: At least as far as the House goes, those rural districts are dwindling in number every Census. Many are being folded into suburban/exurban/rural districts that are now electoral battlegrounds.

    The Virginia 7th CD where I live is like that. I think Portland-area OR05 and WA03 are too. All three are held by Democrats who won by 5 points or less last year: Eugene Vindman (VA07), Janelle Bynum (OR05) Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (WA03).

  155. 155.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 9:43 pm

    @catclub: I’m not sure. I suspect there are lots of people with lots of reasons to not release those files – there were a lot of people involved. It’s possible they just figured they’d stay closed. And I’m not sure Bill Barr was the kind of guy to destroy the files if asked. It’s not like anyone in the first administration other than Trump was drawing attention to them. This was contained so long as he didn’t keep pointing to them.

  156. 156.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 10:02 pm

    @u: In fairness, Democrats aren’t offering a solution either. We went to France last year (you guys are getting all of my David Brooks/Ezra Klein folksy anecdotes today) and one of the things you notice immediately if you’re familiar with agricultural areas is how wildly different the country looks. Small farms are everywhere, local butcher shops, every region has their protected cheese industry, loads of small inns, etc. It’s a country that has found a way to resist the conglomeration that the US has.

    In California (the largest dairy state in the US by a mile) the average dairy herd is 2300 cows. In France – kind of famous for their cheese -it’s 60. And you can’t miss them – little pastures all over the place full of grass fed cows. I’m going to drive past a CA dairy farm on Friday and there’s not a blade of grass there – it an enormous feedlot.

    Who owns a 60 cow dairy farm? Some couple. They have a local supply chain. Local pasteurizer. Local cheese makers. Local markets. Local jobs. Lots of people with these skills because it’s really distributed.

    Who owns 2300 cows? Maybe a guy, but it’s a large operation full of very low paid and almost exclusively undocumented workers. Might be an LLC, or a corporation. The workers aren’t capturing any of the value of that business really. They’re commoditized labor. Not many people with the skills because it’s really concentrated in just a few places, just like that town in Iowa.

    The Iowa farmers are selling to some enormous distributor – they don’t have much pricing power. They don’t have options of who to sell to. They don’t have a relationship with the local market – they have a relationship maybe with a packager or a distributor who has a relationship with the other one who has a relationship with an enormous grocery chain or McDonalds or someone. You really have no agency.

    I don’t know how France holds their economic system together that way. I know there’s a lot of subsidies, and there are laws regarding provinciality, but there must be a lot more. Frances small towns seemed to be doing a lot better than ours do.

    I will say that California has a bit of the reverse on crops. We’re very labor intensive due to the kind of crops we grow. We don’t grow corn. We grow grapes and tomatoes. They take a lot of labor – you can’t automate them. So you need a lot of workers, and they keep the towns alive. They aren’t rich, but they are proper towns at least. But if we automate, those towns go away. The ones that did go away were the mining ones not much different from what’s happening in WV. Logging towns as well. They usually can at least hold on with tourism.

  157. 157.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 10:05 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Yeahhhh! Great news!

  158. 158.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 16, 2025 at 10:09 pm

    @CaseyL: USGS lists it as a 7.3 quake.

  159. 159.

    Timill

    July 16, 2025 at 10:14 pm

    @Martin:

    I don’t know how France holds their economic system together that way.

    Inheritance laws. All the children get a share, so the eldest doesn’t pocket the lot and sell out. Selling out can be done, but it takes a lot of agreement.

  160. 160.

    The Unmitigated Gaul

    July 16, 2025 at 10:22 pm

    @Repatriated:

    • Likely first appeared as a Reddit comment by u/Attaxalotl on r/wizardposting
    • Later used by Kainoa Written in social media art pieces Wikipedia+6Instagram+6Instagram+6                                    (thanks, ChaGPT)
  161. 161.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 10:22 pm

    @MattF: Indicted? Yes, but he died before trial, right? Or maybe I am missing something?

  162. 162.

    The Unmitigated Gaul

    July 16, 2025 at 10:29 pm

    @Martin:
    France stays afloat economically because:
    ✅ Its industrial and service sectors are modern and globally competitive✅ The state plays an active role in economic stability and redistribution✅ Small farms and artisans are heavily supported, mostly for cultural and social reasons✅ Tourism, exports, and innovation bring in foreign earnings✅ The EU and the Eurozone amplify its global reach

  163. 163.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 10:35 pm

    @Ramona: There were two criminal cases. The first was in 2007 and resulted in a plea deal and he received a stupendously light sentence. There was a federal investigation but he agreed to a state charge with the federal charges dropped and immunity for all potential co-conspirators, which might have included his attorney Alan Dershowitz as there are persistent assertions he was a client (and therefore a co-conspirator). This gave Maxwell immunity but only in that district. She was arrested in a different district and that’s the subject of her upcoming USSC appeal.

    The second case was in 2019 and he was indicted and died before trial. So no, Barr did not convict and sentence, Fox has that wrong.

    The US attorney who agreed to the insanely generous plea deal said that he was pressured by higher ups to do it. This was the end of the Bush admin. He surfaces again as Trumps Sec. of Labor and resigns after Epstein is arrested the 2nd time. Nothing unusual about any of this…

  164. 164.

    Martin

    July 16, 2025 at 10:39 pm

    @Timill: @The Unmitigated Gaul:

    Thanks. I wonder if there is a set of policies that Democrats could back that would actually provide adequate support for small towns. Because under our current system, they’re all fucked – like completely. One of the main tools of profit efficiency is to discard markets that are marginally profitable – so they’re going to constantly gravitate to consolidation and serving large population centers. It’s completely inevitable unless something changes.

  165. 165.

    Timill

    July 16, 2025 at 10:48 pm

    @Martin: The Digital Equity Act would have helped, but it had the dreaded E-word in the title…

    Back in the UK we lived in a village with a nominal population of about 300 (and we think they counted horses in that). It was only viable because there was a larger town about 5 miles away (Ely, in Cambridgeshire) that could provide the services lacking in the village, and most of the residents commuted elsewhere to work.

    If you’ve got 25 miles to the next biggish town, it’s not viable and I don’t see what to do…

  166. 166.

    Marc

    July 16, 2025 at 11:01 pm

    @Martin:In California (the largest dairy state in the US by a mile) the average dairy herd is 2300 cows. In France – kind of famous for their cheese -it’s 60. And you can’t miss them – little pastures all over the place full of grass fed cows. I’m going to drive past a CA dairy farm on Friday and there’s not a blade of grass there – it an enormous feedlot.

    Go up north to Marin and Sonoma, there are numerous small farms due to the existence of agricultural land trusts.  The deal apparently works by paying farmers up front to add their farm to a trust, which through some legal chicanery requires that the land continue to operate as independently owned and operated farm for some extended period in years.  The original intent was to prevent development of the land, but it has also kept the small family farms going.

  167. 167.

    rekoob

    July 16, 2025 at 11:04 pm

    @Argiope: Late to comment, but it seems to me that “examine” is a suitable replacement for “show”. It is within the context of an examination, I believe :-)

  168. 168.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 11:17 pm

    @Martin: Erik Loomis, the Labor guy on LGM, says that Acosta was actually good on Labor and of course miles better than his replacement who is the son of SCOTUS Justice Scalia.

  169. 169.

    Ramona

    July 16, 2025 at 11:21 pm

    @Timill: Isn’t Ely the town which voluntarily quarantined itself when some residents caught the plague and neighboring towns would leave them goods just outside the town and take the money the Ely folk left them out of a receptacle filled with vinegar? IIRC, this happened in the 19th century?

  170. 170.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    July 16, 2025 at 11:25 pm

    @Martin: I believe all the small family farms in France came about as a result of the French Revolution, which included land reform. Before that everything had belonged to some feudal lord: “nulle terre sans seigneur.”

  171. 171.

    Martin

    July 17, 2025 at 12:39 am

    @Ramona: Oh, he may well have been, I don’t know. But you can kind of understand between this account of his claim of being waved off of prosecuting Epstein and then resurfacing by Trump, and then James Comey’s daughter being a prosecutor of Epstein and now getting fired. Like, this tendency for small cohorts of people constantly showing up in cases like this is just catnip for the conspiracy folks.

  172. 172.

    Martin

    July 17, 2025 at 12:43 am

    @Chacal Charles Calthrop: Yeah, but we had small family farms and they keep consolidating because it’s the only way to compete when you have these large distributors etc. So we had the same thing as France and it’s steadily eroded here but not there.

    Toward my original point, Democrats don’t really offer solutions to the problem of the small towns dying, other than Medicaid, SNAP, etc. Republicans don’t either, but I don’t see why voting for Republicans is seen as a vote against their interest when I’m not sure that Democrats are offering anything better apart from how to fail more gracefully.

  173. 173.

    Ramona

    July 17, 2025 at 12:56 am

    @Martin: I agree. Things smell fishy. Especially Ms Comey being fired. Marc Elias speculates that this firing and other recent actions on Trump’s part seem to indicate that Trump expects something to be released soon and is positioning himself to discredit anybody disclosing information harmful to him. Real life conspiracies are messy and Trump’s panic is rendering me increasingly suspicious. I’m going to wait and see.

  174. 174.

    Captain C

    July 17, 2025 at 1:00 am

    @Baud: How young were those couches?

  175. 175.

    Captain C

    July 17, 2025 at 1:02 am

    If the press were doing their jobs this would be an Archibald Cox moment.

  176. 176.

    Kayla Rudbek

    July 17, 2025 at 2:39 am

    @Martin: also a lot of IP protection for local products (the whole joke about “if it’s not from a specific region of France, it’s just sparkling nnnn” does have a legal basis for it, I forget whether the abbreviation for the term is D.O.C. Or A.O.C – I think it’s origine controlle) that we don’t really have much of here (a bit with trademark law, but most US companies don’t really have the ties to the land/region that traditional European agriculture does).

    It’s July and I’m watching the Tour de France and your comment made me think that we really couldn’t run a bike race like that in most of the USA because we wouldn’t have the smaller towns wanting to and succeeding in showing off, or the rural road network being good enough to ride on in some states. Granted, the Tour route and beginning/end stage locations are probably more competed for than the Superbowl, and they’re likely not going to run it through the major industrial areas. But still I keep thinking about our trips to see the Tour live and how I felt safer riding the bike in rural France and Belgium with a massive language barrier than I would in some rural areas of the USA.

  177. 177.

    Professor Bigfoot

    July 17, 2025 at 6:50 am

    @Martin:The correct political answer would have been to say that if his wife had been raped and murdered he want to personally choke the son of a bitch to death himself and *that* why the death penalty should be banned because its impossible to distinguish between justice and revenge.

    I don’t think this is gross; in fact I think it would have been a brilliant answer, especially “its impossible to distinguish between justice and revenge.”

    My argument has always been, “Which is the greater punishment? The sweet relief of death, which every man eventually gets and McVeigh asked for? Or, ‘you sit right there in that 6 foot by 10 foot steel box for 23 hours a day for the next fifty years and you think about the shitty thing you did?'”

  178. 178.

    Paul in KY

    July 17, 2025 at 7:04 am

    @Martin: Sure hope you are correct about this! If so, people agin TACO need to mention stuff like ‘what about releasing those sekret Epstein Files!?!?!?’ over and over.

  179. 179.

    Paul in KY

    July 17, 2025 at 7:48 am

    @Martin: We need more of what Gov. Newsome said! Give em Hell!!

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