Is this the week when the Epstein story starts to go away? The internal logic of conspiracy theories suggests not. Bondi, Patel, Bongino, et al., spent months on the campaign trail and their early days in power tossing big, bloody chunks of red meat to the conspiracy kook base. Now, having failed to deliver, they look meat-adjacent to that same audience.
The scandal’s longevity probably depends in part on more salacious details dribbling out. So far, there’s the WSJ report on Trump’s contribution to the pervy birthday book and the People story about Trump and Epstein illegally hosting young women at a Trump-owned casino.
More is almost guaranteed to come out, thanks in part to the administration’s ham-handed attempts to control the story, e.g., the dodgy promise to release a redacted version of the grand jury transcripts, which will only raise more questions for a future news cycle, and the exposure of Epstein files to hundreds if not a thousand-plus government employees assigned to comb through material to flag any mention of Trump.
The clouds of squid ink Trump and minions are emitting in an attempt to seize control of the news cycle don’t appear to be effective so far. We’ll see.
***
Have y’all watched “Adolescence” on Netflix? After hearing a lot about it from friends, I finally did. It’s a four-part series and incredibly disturbing. The acting was amazing.
Not for the first time, it made me grateful that my childhood and young adulthood occurred before social media came on the scene. Not just so there’s no record of my antics at the Purple Porpoise in Gainesville, Florida in 1988, but because my age cohort and I weren’t so publicly and irrevocably exposed to all of the judgments of our peers in real time. That does a psychological number on a person!
I parented a teen after the advent of social media, so I have some clue about the effects, but even then, I understood it was only a surface understanding. It felt like there was a language the “digital natives” spoke that completely eluded me, even when I tried to understand it. At the time, I thought that was normal enough — my parents didn’t understand the world I grew up in either, not in the same way I did.
In retrospect, I believe the difference is much more profound than I realized. The corporate manipulation my generation (and those that preceded it) endured was child’s play compared with the methods used by the current crop of frog-faced oligarchs to exploit us now. Dog help us all if they succeed in deploying AI “friends” to address the “loneliness crisis” tied to their products.
I feel like an old cloud-shouter for even bringing it up, but this is some scary shit, y’all. Also, if elected your benevolent queen for a day, my first order of business would be to make an example of people like Andrew Tate on live TV, perhaps using a panini press.
Open thread.
On The Road – Albatrossity – Northward migration – 2
Raoul Paste
“Meat adjacent…”
Hilarious. First smile of the day
Gin & Tonic
Like some cynical guy said downstairs, MAGA will fall in line. In two weeks this will be a nothingburger.
NotMax
Science interlude. Ice ice, baby.
Antarctica’s oldest ice arrives for climate analysis.
Suzanne
Agree. My kids are of this same era, and, if there is an overall theme that I can observe in the things they say….. it is that they have no faith in anything. I don’t mean religious faith. They do not seem to believe that the present is good or that the future will be better. Everything is high-stakes and high stress.
I have to say, seeing that James Carville got to vomit up more of his thoughts on the FTFNYT today, I can relate. Why does this schmuck still have a platform?! Isn’t there a gas station he can go work at?!
J.
My daughter, who is the same as yours, Betty, pretty much got off of social media a year or so ago and has been much happier. While I appreciated Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn in the early days (I covered them as a journalist and they helped me reconnect with old friends and colleagues), and Facebook definitely helped my book sales, I think the negatives far outweigh the positives and miss the days when we actually spoke with our friends and neighbors, called family and friends and/or wrote letters and sent post cards. And I wouldn’t shed a tear if social media, AI, and Fox News disappeared.
lowtechcyclist
@NotMax:
Seems reasonable to send ICE to Antarctica in exchange.
NotMax
A helping of get up and go music to begin the week.
;)
Scout211
Maybe. But maybe that’s not as important as the mainstream media now reporting more stories about Trump with facts and receipts. His ability to threaten and intimidate the media may be slightly waning now that he is seen as weaker and his billion dollar lawsuits become more and more ridiculous. (CBS’s settlement and firing of Stephen Colbert notwithstanding).
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Why does this schmuck still have a platform?!
My thoughts exactly! Why would anyone still give a fuck what James Carville thinks?
His sell-by date was so long ago, people not yet conceived then have already graduated from college.
Another Scott
I’m really, really bad about predictions, especially about the future. It seems most others are, also too.
I’ll be watching the Virginia campaigns, and how redistricting attempts go in Texas, and federal responses to the summer storms and fires and floods and blackouts and such like.
:-(
Hang in there, everyone.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Gin & Tonic:
I keep thinking that as well.
Hope I’m wrong but it happens every time.
I know, I know, previous performance is no guarantee of future results.
lowtechcyclist
@NotMax:
I figured you were linking to a song by that name! I’ve rectified that:
The Rutles – Get Up and Go
They Call Me Noni
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I liken their short term memory to amnesia.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: His big idea, such as it is, is that our midterm message should be repealing the Big Turd. We should put aside everything else that people care about and just hammer this.
This is the kind of crap that makes people utterly hopeless that government has anything positive to offer. Of course it should be repealed. But don’t fool yourself that things were good up until it passed! This is pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.
RAM
I figure when it comes to Epstein, this, too, shall pass. After all, where are all those MAGA creeps going to go? They’re governed by their fear-induced hate, and Dems simply don’t promote fear and hate as core values. And even if they temporarily drop Trump, they’ll continue to listen to and watch hate media from FOX to online influencers to hate radio, all of which will gradually push them back into the MAGA fold. In the end, Trump revels in fear and hate which, along with his overt extortion activities have an irresistible appeal to the MAGA id.
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: Even if Carville’s core recommendation were sound, I think it’s impossible as a practical matter. How does one paper over fissures in the party when primaries have and will be fought along those exact lines?
satby
Repealing the budget that enshittifies pretty much everything in today’s life doesn’t equal saying everything before it passed was fine.
OTOH, if it’s not repealed, you’re going to look back at the horrible Biden years with the same nostalgia that some people look at the 50s. Because you just don’t know shitty.
Geminid
Basically, I think it’s OK to shout at clouds so long you don’t start hearing them shout back.
Deputinize America
I parented mine at the earlier stages of social media.
I was very thankful that my own younger misdeeds were only the subject of gossip, rumors, occasional hurt feelings and innuendo, and that little photographic evidence exists. It could have been really, really awful had such a thing existed then.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Also, most of the bad shit of the Big Buttfuck Bill isn’t going to hit home until 2027. It’s harder to run against stuff coming down the road than to run against stuff that’s already in people’s faces. Sure, we should warn people that it’s coming, but it shouldn’t be the main thrust of our 2025 and 2026 campaigns.
MattF
As ever, the question is what happens at the margins, and no one knows the answer to that. The specific problem is that the whole RW conspiracy world is so alien and sick that no one, out here in reality, either understands or wants to understand the details of what’s going on. Hoping for the best while preparing for worse is the best one can do.
satby
@lowtechcyclist: and yet, lots of people are already upset about it now and know it’s in coming for them. No sense wasting that.
lowtechcyclist
@satby:
Like I said, it shouldn’t be the main thrust of our 2025 and 2026 campaigns, but we should let people know it’s coming.
Shalimar
@Suzanne: Carville’s big idea has always been putting aside everything other people care about. Not sure how he has any audience at all.
Bupalos
@Gin & Tonic: It might be something providing less entertainment for us on the internet. But it’s more like those corporate parasite people that were caught cheating at the Coldplay thing. This can’t just “go away.” It’s burned into the public psyche. Trump can only retain his general “outsider” American political identity now by the kind of massive escalation that itself would be unmanageable for him and contain more risk than benefit potential. This puts us all in a dangerous position, but doesn’t mean Trump can win.
People here are focussed on their narrow stereotype of “MAGA,” and sure, he’s going to retain a lot of his base that draws their identity from him, and folks here will continue to be able to do the SEE I TOLD YOU THEY CAN NEVER CHANGE. Yes, that isn’t going to change. But that actually has very little to do with the marginal differences that drive power. Trump retaining a lock on this slice of people may in fact be a positive for medium-term U.S. politics for the Dems. A lot of other people are about to come up for grabs, and new entrepreneurial politicians will push at the outlines of the parties as they compete to grab them. There is no outsider now, there is no speaks her mind in my language.
Suzanne
@satby:
Making that the sole message, as Carville argues — and not a small part of a bigger positive vision for the future — is the issue.
I’d argue that Mamdani’s win indicates that there is hunger for dreams of significant scale.
Fair Economist
@Suzanne:
I think the biggest mistake there is that we should have one idea. Some people care about finances. Some people care about Epstein’s sex crimes. Some people care about rule of law. Some people care about abusing immigrants. Etc. We want them ALL to vote for us, not just one group.
On top of the fact that we want different people, the Republicans have shown that in the current atomized media system, not only can you push different messages to different groups, you can push *contradictory* messages to different groups, and get away with it. In Michigan they told RW Jews he would “stand with Israel” and Muslims they’d “save the Gazans from Biden’s genocide” and got *both* groups to swing to them.
We need a lot of different messages from a lot of different people. One message doesn’t “distract” from another anymore; there’s a thousand narratives all going on simultaneously.
NotMax
@lowtechcyclist
Even should repeal somehow be passed there is zero chance it will be signed into law by this maladministration. It’s theatrical, not productive, a squandering of the limited resource of political capital. Nibbling at the edges can potentially accomplish more than eating it one gulp in this case.
Betty Cracker
@J.: Good for her! Could be it’s a micro-trend among the mid-20s set because I know others in that cohort who have done something similar, i.e., maybe not given up social media entirely but significantly curtailed their usage. And without exception, they say they’re happier for it.
It’s the tweens and teens I worry about the most. The poor things are already a seething cauldron of hormones and anxiety — it has always been thus! — but there’s evidence that the platforms that are devoted to relentlessly monetizing their eyeballs are harming them in precisely the ways that they’re most vulnerable to at that age.
Suzanne
@Fair Economist:
I agree with this, too. If you go read the piece, Carville argues that we should delay discussion on everything else until after the midterms.
I cannot convey how disheartening that is.
lowtechcyclist
@Fair Economist:
This. Our people have to learn to do this. Unlike the GOP, we don’t need to run contradictory messages, just emphasizing different things with different groups.
To an extent, that’s always been part of politics, but we’re in an era where messages can be microtargeted to the people who will be most persuaded by them, and we need to do that.
Soprano2
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I don’t know, the belief that FFOTUS will reveal all the “Democrat pedophiles” by blowing the lid off the Epstein files is a foundational belief for a lot of these people. It’s not something they say to “own the libs”, it’s something they fervently believe.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: I’m sure he wants us to ignore all the grandmas and grandpas they’re deporting for absolutely no reason, because he’s sure the immigration issue is still a good one for FFOTUS. Can’t roll my eyes hard enough.
satby
@Fair Economist: agree. Messages need to be related to who you’re talking to, while staying consistent on overall principles. One of the biggest problems that the Democrats face is our own Balkanized voters, a healthy number of which are angry when their issues aren’t addressed in exactly the way they think they should be, or in a timeframe that’s achievable given current political realities.
Eolirin
@satby: Campaigning on repealing something we can’t repeal seems like a bad idea in terms of setting us up for success in 2028.
NotMax
@satby
“What do we want?”
“STUFF!”
“When do we want it?”
“NOW!”
//
Belafon
@Suzanne:
I don’t think most people care about something positive being offered. I don’t think 2026 should be about something positive, unless you consider “We’ll shut down the concentration camps” something positive.
Soprano2
He helped get Clinton elected, but he didn’t do that by himself. This is a horrible idea, that we should ignore all the awful stuff that’s happening to people RIGHT NOW in favor of stuff that’s going to happen after 2026. Just horrible advice; I hope no Democrats follow it. They’re deporting 82-year-old men who lost their wallet with their green card in it! Do you think any marginal FFOTUS voter wanted the government to spend money on outrageous stuff like that?
Bupalos
I’ve started getting hit with an anti-Ossof online ad (why, I don’t really know, maybe because my town shares a name with a town in Georgia?) that I think are effective. They’re entirely generic, the standard testimonial from 4 demographically representative people looking at the camera from the place they work saying Ossof did this or that that took their money. The key is just the throwaway setup 1st line, which is something referencing how the economy is predatory these days, and they have a million sneaky ways to take things from you.
Eolirin
@Belafon: Yeah, I’ll second this. We can’t accomplish anything until 2028 at the earliest. If we focus on a positive vision that we can’t meaningfully work toward it’ll just breed disillusionment. The focus should be on stopping Trump. This needs to be a campaign driven by outrage.
But that’s, for the midterms.
We need to be doing the positive vision for the future thing going into 2028, and in all local and state elections. And we need to be executing successfully on it too.
NotMax
@Soprano2
Dearth of ice floes in Florida, don’tcha know.
//
Suzanne
@Belafon:
Disagree immensely. I think most people, in their incoherent and flawed way, deeply want things to just work. Now, they’re not good at understanding the details or the tradeoffs required, and they’re always carrying prejudices around. So making things functional is a never-ending battle. But, as a rule, I think it is a time of deep dissatisfaction the the status quo, a time of falling living standards and more struggle and more chaos, and that people are thirsty for positivity.
geg6
@Fair Economist:
Completely agree. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time. Carville has had one idea and thinks it applies to every situation for eternity.
Glad you watched Adolescence, Betty. Everyone should. I think it’s ground breaking work, both in content and film making. That single shot technique really brings the viewer into the story by making you feel you are there, hovering in the background. And I simply cannot say enough about the acting. I want it to win every award.
Geminid
@Suzanne: I just see James Carville as an over-the-hill political strategist who gets an inordinate amount of media attention. The actual Democratic politicians who will fight the midterms know more about the electorate than Carville does.
That does not neccesarily mean that they and their staffs will come up with the best strategies, but I think they are working from a better base of knowledge than Carville’s.
Ohio Mom
I am reading a novel, and you know that lovely state of being suspended in time, your eyes rolling over the words, you’re not aware of anything except the images being spun in your mind’s eye — well, this author very innocently used the word “trump” (the character’s feelings trumped her better judgement) and my reverie came to a screeching halt.
I don’t think that word will ever return to its original meaning for me.
Bupalos
@Belafon: Indeed I think fear and anger are the order of the day, and Dems shouldn’t forego drinking deeply from this fount. Especially fear. The nice thing is that there’s no ethical complication here. The fear is justified and the message doesn’t have to intensify it, just speak plainly to reality.
The wealthy predators are out to get you. They’re everywhere, in every corner of your life. And Republicans empower, protect, and celebrate them. The Big Billionaire Blowjob being the best evidence. Repeal it or risk your own death.
Eolirin
@Suzanne: I think with respect to national elections in 2026, the core base of the Democratic party, which are the people who we need to turn out the most, want blood first and foremost.
In local and state elections, in 2028, sure. But for the congressional elections opposition to Trump is going to be the biggest base motivator we have, and midterms are base voter driven.
hells littlest angel
I’ve always liked Stephen Graham as an actor. But what he did with Adolescence is truly brilliant. I hope he wins all the awards.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
“Also, if elected your benevolent queen for a day, my first order of business would be to make an example of people like Andrew Tate on live TV, perhaps using a panini press.”
I will happily help hold him down.
satby
@Geminid: but we go through this over and over again, worrying about what this or that doofus on a pundit show says about electioneering when the shows and the people on them are becoming more irrelevant by the day.
Eolirin
@hells littlest angel: My only problem with Adolescence was that it was released too close to The Residence, and is partially responsible for screwing us out of getting a second season of that.
Ohio Mom
@Geminid: Part of the job of a political strategist is to know how to command the media’s attention. Carville has lost every instinct about reading the political landscape except that one.
He sort of reminds me of my friend in memory care, who can hold a compelling conversation about her high school days with her fellow alum, Ohio Dad, but can’t remember what I told her minutes ago.
Vestiges of what Carville and Friend used to be.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: The good news is that Carville is increasingly irrelevant and the Democratic gerontocracy is cracking.
Dems need one story that all policy fits seamlessly into. Not one policy that leaves the story otherwise blank. You shouldn’t even have to say what you’re going to do policy-wise, people should know what the policy will be based on the story.
Suzanne
@Geminid:
Well, yeah, but this is an attention economy. Getting attention means he has influence. His bleating is published in the New York Times. Mine is just Thoughts of SassyfrassFarts in the Balloon Juice comment section.
I would absolutely love it if some political strategists read this comment section. LMAO.
geg6
@hells littlest angel:
I am never a crier when reading or watching film or tv. My family, a bunch of crybabies at the drop of a hat, will attest to the fact that I’m the hard hearted one of the bunch. But I wept like a baby at the end. Any art that can make me do that is some really powerful stuff.
Soprano2
That’s how I feel about a lot of things. I don’t need to know about computers or servers, I just want it to work. Same with phones, and TV’s and all kinds of other things. I have an ETrade app on my new IPad that won’t open. I’ve deleted it and redownloaded it, no luck. My password is right, because it works on literally every other way to get into my account. I called ETrade around 6 p.m. on a Monday, but couldn’t get any help because their technical people had already gone home! That was almost two weeks ago, I still haven’t had a chance to call them back. To say this is frustrating is an understatement, I just WANT IT TO WORK! Why do they think everyone can call for help during the day?
Glory b
@Suzanne: Biden created the best economy in the world significantly higher wages, especially for low income, blue collar workers, was pro union, pro environment, passed a massive infrastructure bill, was, as the Center for American Progress said, the most progressive president since FDR, worked mightily to water down Trump’s effect on the judiciary, the most positive vision for the country in decades.
But, because it wasn’t perfection, here we are now.
That positive, uplifting stuff being a winner is just a nice pipe dream.
zhena gogolia
@Glory b: He was so old. //
Bupalos
@geg6: I’ve tears roll down my face at Frozen. On like a 4th viewing, in the background where the kids were watching and the adults were drinking. Or even lower on the emotional food chain. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous. I’ve teared up walking in on a maudlin scene in a Henry Danger episode, if you know what that is. I think I had to wipe a cheek at the end of Princess Diaries 2.
I basically have a disorder.
montanareddog
@Suzanne:
@lowtechcyclist:
I guess he still has a platform because he tells the media bosses what they want to hear. Or, in this case, could be because he does not tell them what they do not want to hear.
zhena gogolia
@Bupalos: I’m more like you, but I’m now watching Drive My Car, and I defy anyone not to be sobbing at a certain scene that happens toward the end, in a snowy landscape.
I used up three hankies.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: He was so old because he appointed black women to the highest offices of the land. It broke fragile white egos, many in the Democratic party itself
Mamdani is the flavor of the month, who has to yet win his general election.
Betty Cracker
@hells littlest angel: Graham was so good in Adolescence! Everyone was great, IMO, but Graham’s performance really stood out for me, maybe because he’s been so typecast as a heavy in the movies/shows I’ve seen him in prior to that.
Baud
Have we given up on Joe Rogan already?
Geminid
@Suzanne: So I wonder how influential Carville actually is. The same with all the other talking heads like Klein, Shor and Yglesias. They have big audiences but I’m not sure they are listened to by the practitioners; that is, the politicians and professionals who actually run campaigns now. I sure wouldn’t listen to them.
Anyway
Sadly people working on campaigns and staffers in D leadership offices pay attention to FTFNYT op-ed columns and sunday shows.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Yes.
Baud
@Anyway:
They should. I don’t like it, but it’s clear our voters don’t have the grit or the gumption to stand up to the NYT.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My sister three kids made it through their teens and got their carriers going without any social media damage. Her eldest son’s wife is a bit crazy, but I’ve been told that because of her abusive Bible bothering father and apparently her big draw to my nephew his in touch with his feminine side, so to say.
Sure Lurkalot
@Suzanne:
Also Carville; DO NOT TALK ABOUT the brown guy with some aspirational ideas that the entrenched interests I represent do not support. Just go back to the status quo where housing, health care and education are more difficult to attain than in many other of our peer countries on earth.
Bupalos
@Glory b: None of this stuff had terribly concrete reality to it. Inflation from ’01-’03 (inflation has a trailing reality) ate up most of the wage gains. The individual benefits of the IRA never were implemented because of silly red tape and/or the administration silently killed them fearing more inflation. Those portions of the IRA were the main climate initiative too. He half-assed Ukraine. Let Gaza go on autopilot. Technological dislocation continued apace with no policy or effective narrative response from the administration. The economic stuff was structured long-term. And there was no story.
I redirect there because this “we did everything we could, everything was perfect, and yet look” kind of thing is even more demoralizing than reality.
prufrock
Even I, an FSU alum, was amazed by the debauchery that I witnessed at the Purple Porpoise in the early nineties when I was visiting a friend.
I’m still amazed that back in ’88 you could leave a game, go across the street to the PP, slam as much alcohol as possible in fifteen minutes, then stagger back into the stadium to catch the start of the third quarter.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Baud: Bill Burr is the antidote to Rogan.
Miss Bianca
@Ohio Mom: I’m reading early American plays (18th-19th century) for possible production next summer, and one that I just finished was Charles II by John Howard Payne and Washington Irving (yes, the Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle guy.)
Anyway, it’s a light-hearted enough little romp, somewhat in the vein of the Restoration comedies that Charles II himself ushered in when he came to the throne, and there’s one character, a certain Captain Copp, who keeps singing this song – or part of a song – over and over:
In the time of the Rump
Old Admiral Trump
With his broom swept the chops of the Channel:
And his crew of Tenbreeches,
Those Dutch sons of ––
(And here he gets stopped by his adoptive daughter before he can fill in the blank)
Now I have to look up “old Admiral Trump” to see if he’s a real character or not.
Sure Lurkalot
@NotMax:
Seems like Trump delivered a giant shit sandwich to this country in six months so sure, our message should be “patience, grasshopper, don’t set your sights high.”
Betty Cracker
@prufrock: Those were the days, my friend. ;-)
Suzanne
@Glory b: A record-high percentage of people are rent-burdened and struggle to afford the basics of life. Life expectancy in the U.S. continues to be below pre-pandemic levels. Class mobility is the lowest it’s been in decades.
These are large trends that predate Biden, but these things are significant burdens on people and a message that things are great only convinces me that all of this is invisible. I don’t want to be a part of a political movement that doesn’t see people’s struggles.
satby
@Bupalos: Glory B never asserted “everything was perfect”. That’s your insertion of her recap of the facts of the Biden economy. Were the Democrats able to undo 60 years of Reaganomics in four years? Of course not; and one of the problems any elected Democrats have now is the expectation that after decades of destruction and opposition by Republicans everything can be fixed and “just work” within a four year Democratic administration. And no matter the progress made, it’s never enough so control bounces back to the people who screwed it up on purpose in the first place.
Baud
@satby:
Technically two, because of midterms.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: I know, it’s incredible.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
hells littlest angel
@Betty Cracker: Graham also wrote Adolescence, only his second writing credit.
Suzanne
@Geminid: @Anyway: The commentariat here seems pretty well convinced that normal people are deeply influenced by the legacy media. I don’t know why we would believe that, while simultaneously believing that Professional Politics People — who are among those who actually consume this stuff regularly — are not.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Belafon
@satby: And part of our problem is going to be is that the next Democratic president, even if given all of the possible tools, like supermajorities in Congress, is only going to be able to undo what the predecessor did. Forget better.
Sure Lurkalot
@Soprano2:
You barely start to use an app when a pop up “rate me” screen comes along or some AI suggestion and that’s when it doesn’t just freeze or crash.
Cory Doctorow’s 5 short episode podcast Who Broke The Internet about this enshittification (a lot of it is by design) is quite good.
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understood-who-broke-the-internet/id1673817105?i=1000706331015
zhena gogolia
@satby: Truth.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Yeah. And many still refuse to see it. Self reflection is hard, pointing fingers is easy.
Kristine
I was flipping through the rotating tags, and wondered if a page-a-day calendar had ever been considered. Do we even have enough tags to fill one?
Baud
@Belafon:
Not all of it. The reason behind harm prevention is that some things can’t be fixed, or fixed completely, with any amount of political power.
gene108
@Suzanne:
The hunger is there for big things. From the last 16 years, I don’t think the electorate has the patience to wait for big progressive things to create positive change.
The media environment, and right-wing propaganda drive this frustration when things don’t happen right away.
Baud
@gene108:
Agree. Plus, people hate change.
Another Scott
@Suzanne:
Sure. But is that what happened?
Not picking on you, trying to make a larger point:
Our modern limited attention span will kill us all if we don’t start to accept that 5 word sound bites are not an adequate summary.
E.g. Biden White House – June 2023:
I’m not sure what we can do about people who refuse to listen to our side, mostly listen to slanted and out of context fragments from partisans on the other side, and refuse to listen to more than a 5 word explanation.
Yes, we need faster progress on the big problems in society and the economy. That faster progress is only going to happen (as long as the other side is insane and a threat to modern life) if enough Democrats are in office for enough time to straighten the path.
It’s a tough problem…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: That would be Durch Admiral De Troemp(sp?). At one point during the English/Dutch wars the admiral nailed a broom to his mast as a way of telling his sailors they were gonna sweep the Thames estuary clean of English shipping. They did, too.
satby
@Baud: The reason behind harm prevention is that some things can’t be fixed, or fixed completely, with any amount of political power.
Yep. Dead people will still be dead, promising research will be done in other countries, and some of the best and brightest will be gone, never to return, because the people who vote in this country can’t be trusted.
Kristine
@Glory b:
So many adversaries came at those accomplishments from so many angles, microtargeting, convincing folks that up was down. And yes, for some folks it wasn’t great because of housing, debt. Covid hangover that they all just wanted to go away. They wanted a cold reboot, and that was never going to happen.
Yeah, they should’ve realized that. But they didn’t. So the money won.
Bupalos
@satby: Sure. I’m just redirecting because the political reality of claims like “best economy in the world” is different from the implication. Like everyone here I love what Biden tried to do but I think there’s a kind of nihilistic danger in over claiming the actual accomplishments and saying it politically didn’t matter.
We really don’t know what would have happened if everyone eligible for a free heat pump had gotten one. Biden miraculously got that legislation passed (I mean, this really was incredible), and then 2 full years later, literally no one got one. In the wage-gain vs. cost-of-living battle, Trump’s pre-covid first term economy wins that pretty easily. It’s a very small proportion of households that either vote on or believe in the importance of unions for them, and Biden took the right stand but didn’t change that reality.
This is ONLY a take about not drawing the conclusion that we couldn’t have done better, and yet still lost….
Suzanne
@gene108:
Oh, I definitely agree with that, mostly. The ACA is a significant achievement, though. Maybe even a BFD.
Nevertheless, we have evidence that playing small ball doesn’t win elections. If electing a Democratic president is only going to slow our inevitable decline…. are we really going to be surprised when much of the electorate just…. nopes out? We’ve made significant advances in the past, with bigger visions than that.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
This has been studied. Early adolescent girls are the most vulnerable to pressure created by social media.
hsph.harvard.edu/news/exploring-the-effect-of-social-media-on-teen-girls-mental-health/
Princess
I think the Democrats need not one but three things, each of which can be boiled down to a memorable phrase. That’s what in 2016 Trump had (drain the swamp, build the wall, maga) and Bernie had (Medicare for all, regulate the banks, raise the minimum wage). Mamdani in NY seems to be doing the same thing (free buses, daycare, government stores). The feckless voters we need obviously can’t be won over with full and costed platforms or records of experience but they want something they can call substance that they can see in a tik tok that lasts no longer than the average crap (bonus points if you spot the reference).
Im not sure it really matters what the three things are.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne:
Right now, Mamdani has only won a primary. Let’s see what he does in the general. That being said, I see a lot of talent in him.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: The legacy media is more influenced by normal people than normal people are influenced by legacy media.
Carping about the NYT or James Carville is people wishing this was not so.
TheronWare
I enjoyed the Netflix series Adolescence. It was really quite disturbing like a bad dream, the acting was superb. I remember Stephen Graham from his portrayal of Al Capone on Boardwalk Empire.
gene108
@Suzanne:
We do need big ideas and inspirational politicians.
There are not that many people who have ever had the skill and charisma to overcome the inevitable opposition to big changes.
That’s the bigger problem than going big or going home.
montanareddog
@Miss Bianca: There were two Dutch Admirals Tromp: Maarten, the father and Cornelis, the son. Given that the song refers to the Rump Parliament, old Trump must be Maarten Tromp, who was an Admiral in the First Anglo-Dutch War (Cornelis became an Admiral later).
Old School
Josh Johnson is joining the ‘Daily Show’ host rotation this week.
Suzanne
@Another Scott:
The people who refuse to listen are lost to us already and this isn’t about them. But there’s a lot of squishes out there. And listening to Carville isn’t how you get to them.
In recent years, some charismatic people with weird names have been pretty successful at getting people to listen to them. I’d submit that there’s lessons there.
catclub
@Scout211:
also maybe.
I think if they decide Trump is protecting himself then they will let it pass.
The better (more enraging to the maga idiots) line is that Trump is protecting all those other Democrats and elites.
satby
@Bupalos: This is ONLY a take about not drawing the conclusion that we couldn’t have done better, and yet still lost….
And nobody said that either.
The point, which you appear intent to miss OR ignore, is that the problems in this country are large, structural, and in many cases originated before some of you were born. Every time an administration takes steps to fix anything even their allies moan that it’s not big enough, isn’t fast enough, whatever; while their enemies just lie and wait to undo more of the common good. And they always get their chance to do just that.
catclub
Yes. I would argue virtually no one does unless there are the right circumstances. FDR. LBJ, Obama. timing is everything.
satby
@Old School: I’ll have to watch that.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s not just Mamdani. Look at Obama, AOC, heck, even Maxwell Frost. Big, generational language. Boldness and passion.
@gene108:
Agree. But I also think we don’t select for it.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
It is difficult to predict the future and the more humans that have to be accounted for make it more and more difficult.
Not all humans are unpredictable but not all that long ago most people had to fit in to even exist, but with the number of humans growing the hiding places and/or the acceptance of (is it weirder and weirder?) stories/segments of humanity being seen in real time it is and will continue to become something different. Will it work/survive? Well we’ve had wars over basically the same premise, that some are the guiding light and the rest had better get in line. With more and more humans on the planet that, and far wider communications, in my mind, will lead to more and more people that want to lead but have zero concept of leadership, as in who, what, why, how…. etc, etc.
Ohio Mom
@Miss Bianca: I’d be tempted to change the guy’s name in the script to Schlump or Grump or something else to stop people from being grabbed out of their willing suspension of disbelief. With an apologetic footnote in the program.
chrome agnomen
@Baud: hell, I haven’t even given up on Joe the Plumber!
Melancholy Jaques
@hells littlest angel:
Same same. He can do it all.
satby
@Suzanne: Who’s “we”? Lots of great progressive hopes have withered on the vine because voters chose someone else.
There go two miscreants
I can hardly stand to read any of my books about bridge any more! It’s practically every fourth word!
schrodingers_cat
The hunger for big leftwing change in the general electorate is based on spotty evidence. You cannot extrapolate a win in a low turnout closed primary in a heavily Democratic city to the entire country.
Bupalos
@satby: I’m not saying someone said it, I’m saying citing the best economy in the world and landmark environmental initiatives can leave that impression- that these things actually happened, that accomplishment-wise we blew it out of the water, and yet still lost. I think that’s the flavor there though perhaps you take it differently.
I think it’s really important to acknowledge to ourselves that we didn’t get these things done. Not to deny these things are hard, that there are structural problems that DEFINITELY precede our lifetimes… but to avoid “we did all we could and it didn’t work.”
schrodingers_cat
@satby: White progressives whose wishes need to be obeyed by establishment (by which they mean black and Jewish people and other minorities who vote D) Democrats.
Melancholy Jaques
@Suzanne:
I’d argue that positive visions might work in a big city election, but that negative attacks win midterms. Or at least that has been the case in ever major midterm shift in my lifetime. Pelosi did not become speaker with a positive vision, it was an emphatic rejection of Bush Jr. Same with Boehner bringing the Obama administration to a halt.
I generally do not agree with Carville and often wish he would disappear, but he is right in this sense. We need a single sentence reason to vote D across the board. The menu approach has never worked for us.
Our theme should be electing that asshole was a mistake, then support it with the many reasons: the lies, the corruption, the incompetence, the change in government that people do not support. Each one should be the subject of two or three “normal person talking” ads. Cheap to produce, easy to track which ones are working. But all have to say the same thing: this person should not be president.
Geminid
@Suzanne: Well, I don’t believe the first proposition to begin with. As for the second, I believe it based upon my observation of individual Democratic House members; people like Sharice Davids and Lauren Underwood who stay in touch with their constituents because they have to. They don’t need James Carville or Ezra Klein to tell them how to do politics, and I think they know that.
But I do not especially identify with this Balloon Juice commentariat you speak of, especially when it comes to the character and quality of House Democrats. I think people here very much underestimate them, and that’s because they really are not very interested in House members outside a few heroes and goats.
I happen to have made a project of learning about as many House Democrats as I can, especially the new ones including the Class of 2018 and the three since then. And my observation is that these Democrats are much smarter and better at their trade than many people here credit them.
montanareddog
@Geminid: I had forgotten about the legend of Tromp’s broom.
For trivia-minded Pennsylvanians, Maarten Tromp was killed at the Battle of Scheveningen, shot by a sniper from a ship commanded by William Penn, father of the Quaker.
catclub
But its NO trump!
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
The modern world has opened the cracks in humanity. People that think their way is the only way, even when only 1 or 2 percent might agree. But 1 or 2 percent of even just the US population is not an insignificant number. And that is a part of the problem. The second is misuse of what we are doing here. Most of us on this blog have never met and yet we can communicate. And discuss. But some do not want to discuss, they want action. Now when that was 1 or even 5 percent of a small population, with minimal agreement or even communication among that population, we could have a lot of small groups of like individuals. In this population, with wide communication and a lot more humans involved I’d bet it was always going to be the way outside the box folks who made the strangest noises, but had an audience. The picture to the right sort of says it all. The problem is of course wider and not as focused but that basically spells it out, not specifically but in general.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: She was black and East Asian and female, and the price of eggs was high, and people were made to be afraid of the scary black and brown hordes coming from other places, so here we are.
catclub
@schrodingers_cat: well. You are no fun.
spotty evidence is the best for baseless extrapolation.
Baud
@Princess:
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
Fair Economist
@schrodingers_cat:
It was a primary, but not low turnout. It was the highest turnout in a NYC mayoral primary since 1989.
Suzanne
@satby: I don’t think our various political establishments and organizations put a high value on ability to emotionally connect with or inspire voters. (I will note that this doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with them being progressive or centrist. Obama was fantastic at conveying big future dreams and he wasn’t a super-progressive.) The criteria are more about ability to fundraise and length of career. This tendency is visible when I see things like endorsements of Andrew Fucking Cuomo.
jonas
I think it was Senator Chris Murphy making this point a few weeks ago: the overwhelming sentiment of voters right now is that the “system” is rigged and powerful people are screwing them over. They’re not wrong — the problem is that Fox and the rightwing noise machine/media ecosystem (AM radio, podcasts, Sinclair, TikTok influencers, etc.) has them convinced that the “they” is somehow liberals. Nothing will change until we flip that script and give voters, especially those Trump-curious independents who once supported Obama and Biden, but didn’t vote for Harris, a couple of basic, consistent policy points to hang their hats on: get money out of politics/overturn Citizens United; make the rich pay their fair share in taxes and get our fiscal house back in order and protect the social safety net; make owning a home an affordable, middle-class aspiration once again.
You don’t need to get deep in the weeds about how those things get done and tell reporters who ask for details to go fuck themselves. Just hammer it home all day, everyday. This is what Democrats pledge to do. Give us the presidency and a Congress to work with and watch it happen.
p.a
Well let’s go all Cloud Cukoo Land and say Jan 2029 Dem trifecta. Does the party militant use the “gift” they’ve been given by the de facto unified presidency and do everything we want basically by fiat? Toss out the weevils, prosecute everyone who didn’t preserve gvt communications to protect their nefarious acts (it’s still required, and it’s a good way to get them without seeming political (Capone/IRS/by any means necessary)), prosecute Prosecute PROSECUTE and tell the SCOTUS to get fucked?
What’s the alternative? Rebuild democratic norms? That’s the real cloud cukoo land I’m afraid.
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: One thing all those people have in common is they were young in political terms. Obama is in his 60s now but was in his 40s when he first came on the scene. IIRC, the generational aspect in 2008 was so appealing because it seemed we’d been fighting the Boomer Wars forever, and Obama was a break from that. (Obama was technically a late Boomer, but he didn’t come of age during the Vietnam War, and the contrast with first Hillary Clinton and then McCain was stark).
Of course, youth isn’t always required. Bernie Sanders is an old fart, as is Trump, but both of them, in ways I find twisted for different reasons, convey an “authenticity” that people want. They are effective at communicating, even if what they say doesn’t appeal to us.
Biden was great at policy and getting legislation through, but even in his prime, he wasn’t great at communicating. If the mood of the party/country had been anything other than “Jesus Christ, put someone experienced and normal in office as an antidote to this crazy fuck Trump,” Biden would have never got the nomination/been elected. IMO.
Deputinize America
Go figure. A friend of mine died the way we should all aspire to go – on a Caribbean beach a couple of days after his birthday, on a trip with friends for his birthday. Nobody knew how dead ass broke he was, he’d just taken a couple of the friends to the airport, and he returned to hang out with the remaining friends. Said he was feeling hot (his health had been shit for years), and walked into the ocean – next minute, he was floating face first, dead. The friends tried to revive him, but I suspect he was dead from the moment his face hit the water.
His estate isn’t what I’d call solvent; his creditors will only get partially paid after the expenses of administration, with nothing for heirs. About 20 minutes ago, I just heard from an AMEX rep that they’d be willing to settle their claim at about an 80 percent rate. When I said “I don’t think I can ethically do a pro rata distribution to other creditors while compromising yours at or above the pro rata share you’d be entitled to”, the rep pointedly told me that they wouldn’t be sharing their data. Also said they do this “all the time”.
Felt shady as shit to me.
Suzanne
@Geminid: Did I say a single negative word about House Democrats? I agree that we have a great group.
The amount of digital ink spilled around here about the media and how terrible it is…. it’s not small. I agree with much of it. But I don’t think it’s logical to think that the media sucks, but that James Carville getting a prominent platform somehow doesn’t matter.
trollhattan
Adolescence came up last night’s Medium Cool thread, will only mimic my comment finding it very disturbing and riveting, and add the technical note each episode was filmed in one take which, on revisiting adds some unwanted stress (for production nerds).
I fought giving the kid a smartphone. Starting maybe fifth grade she began working us to get a phone, to the point of presentations including pie charts and bullet points of the obvious benefits to us all.
Think it was sixth grade when we finally caved but stipulating a flip phone, not an iphone. There was also a signed contract re. use of that phone. Well, within two weeks mom and kid agreed “It doesn’t work” marched down to the ATT store and in some kind of complicated international trade deal 1. bought mom the newest iphone and 2. traded the flip phone back and assigned mom’s old iphone to the kid.
And down the rabbit hole it was. Not so bad in 6th grade but the source of a LOT of bad things once middle school began. Like a 20-month extended version of Mean Girls. Fetch did happen.
Hungry Joe
Re Latest Trump scandal: I just can’t envision anything actually HAPPENING. He’ll keep rage-posting, the GOP Congress will keep backing him up, the Supreme Court will keep dismantling the Constitution. Days will pass. Stories will continue to break. Weeks will pass. New stuff will come to light. Months will pass.
Of course, I’ve been wrong about just about everything since November of 2016, so …
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Bernie lost twice. I’m not sure why he’s cited as an example of success
ETA
AOC and Mamdani won their primaries. Better examples.
Baud
@jonas:
Maybe (some) liberals should stop agreeing with them.
schrodingers_cat
@Fair Economist: It was a closed primary and Mamdani got 44% percent of the vote according to Wikipedia.
You cannot extrapolate one data point in a closed primary of heavily D city to the entire country
Fair Economist
@p.a: Assuming we do get a trifecta, I think the only chance to save the country is to aggressively fix it. Un-pack the Court (3 justices appointed by Trump?), end gerrymanders, tax the billionaires, restore the Medicare and Medicaid cuts, free honest banking from guaranteeing crypto, etc.
Most important are un-packing the Court and ending gerrymanders. Aside those, we’ll never be able to make anything stick.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Because it is a cult.
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker:
They also didn’t “wait their turn”, and that has a lot of appeal.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: You never fail to amaze with your fund of knowledge!
Central Planning
@Ohio Mom: You haven’t played cards in a while, have you?
Miss Bianca
@gene108: I mean, shit…body dissatisfaction and eating disorders were prevalent *enough* back in the 70s and 80s when I was coming up as a teen…I can’t imagine how much exponentially *worse* it’s become through social media amplification.
Fair Economist
@Suzanne:
I think they are connected. Carville gets a big audience because the media wants Dem “spokespeople” with crappy messages. If a Carvillite had won the NYC mayoral primary as decisively as Mamdani did, he’s be on the media 24/7 and they’d be talking him up as the next President, rather than the media only putting on his critics and concern trolls.
Suzanne
@Fair Economist: They are absolutely connected. The media wants to amplify voices like Carville’s that spout what they want to hear, which is essentially the politics of 30 years ago. But it isn’t 30 years ago!
Mr. Bemused Senior
Take up bridge, open 1NT.
satby
@Baud: Bernie lost twice. I’m not sure why he’s cited as an example of success
Because in spite of the fact that he lost when regular voters outside of VT had a say AND he’s been singularly unsuccessful at working with his Senate peers to get his big ideas passed he commands a devoted following from people who deemed the more successful Biden as too old and out of touch.
Plus, only people not on Medicare would think that “Medicare for all” is a great slogan. Both Medicaid and the ACA offer generally better coverage.
JoyceH
@Deputinize America: Why is AMEX talking to you? Once a person is dead, the only ONLY thing a relative or friend says to a creditor of the deceased is to file with the probate court. Because that’s the only legal way they can get their account settled. Unscrupulous companies will often try to convince heirs to settle their loved one’s debt, but the only actual debtor is the estate. And if the money isn’t there, it isn’t there, and it’s no one else’s responsibility.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: I don’t think regular people are influenced by the legacy media that much; what I’m afraid of is that Democratic insiders are. Carville was good in his day, but reading about this latest column convinces me even more that he has not updated himself to the current situation. I guess I’m also pretty pissed at him saying that the Democratic Party is “too feminine”.
Baud
@satby:
To be fair, I think “Medicare” in Medicare for All is marketing. His proposal replaces everything (except Tri-Care, I believe).
trollhattan
Pastor Mike got the memo, and maybe a horse head on his pillow.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think Sanders is an effective communicator, but you’re right, he’s hardly a political juggernaut
@Suzanne: Good point.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: BS is popular among journobros and comedy bros and a majority of the third of the white people who vote D.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: Agree with you 100%. But I almost always do.
Bill Arnold
@Bupalos:
Remember Morning in America, a Reagan 1984 campaign slogan?
Some important numbers for Morning in America.
Unemployment 6.5 percent (Oct 1984)
Year over year inflation rate 3.90%, Dec 1984 (similar around Oct 1984)
Federal funds rate rate 8.24 percent, Dec 1984 (similar around Oct 1984)(same link)
Reagan won that 1984 election with 525 electoral votes and >58 percent of the popular vote.
The economy in 1988 also sucked relative to the economy in fall 2024. (Not as bad as 1984 though.) GOP won the the presidency for a 3d term in 1988.
Unemployment rate 4.7% Oct 1988
Inflation 4.2% Oct 1988
Federal funds rate 8.27% Oct 31 1988
For October 2024, the corresponding numbers were: 4.1%,2.6%,4.83%
Betty Cracker
@Deputinize America: Sorry about your friend, but yeah, there are certainly worse ways to go.
@trollhattan: Our smartphone journey was somewhat similar.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
He better stop listening to those leftists and their ridiculous pipe dreams. And offer meat and potatoes to the average NYC voter.
Kathleen
@Geminid: I follow quite a few of them and I agree with you 100. I find it worthwhile to take the time to check them out on You Tube or read their tweets. I get weekly newsletters from my Dem rep and I attend Zoom calls he holds. I’m very impressed with the talent of the Democrats I’ve observed in Congress. Especially those in the purple districts who need a certain % of Rethug or Independent votes to keep their seats. People in heavy Blue districts can be a lot more strident but few Dems who are hell bent on criticizing the party constantly don’t even bother to consider that.
Soprano2
@Geminid: I’ve never told you how much I value your input in this forum. I’ve learned a lot about what different Democrats are doing from your posts. I agree that we tend to look at the few high profile people who get in the news all the time, and don’t pay much attention to the “workhorses” who get a lot done but don’t get in the news much.
There go two miscreants
Well, that is my favorite contract…but it isn’t there all the time, alas!
Soprano2
@Fair Economist: It already happened, remember when Adams was proof that the Democrats needed to change direction everywhere?
Soprano2
@Suzanne: Likewise, thanks!
ETtheLibrarian
I think the Epstein story will linger a bit. There seems to be thoughts that the WSJ had more than what was in the story.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: There is a very strong 45 year-old Democrat in a big race this year. That would be former Rep. Abigail Spanberger, who’s running for Virginia governor. When it comes to political skills I’d put Spanberger up there with any Democrat on the scene today.
Unfortunately (in a way), Spanberger is running against a weak opponent this year. Spanberger might not face any near-peer competion until the next decade, when she’s a Senator running for President.
WTFGhost
Thinking on social media, and how it harms people, I think I have some understanding of parts of it.
If I were to say what my worst mental health issue was, it would be this: sometimes, my pain brings back bad memories, makes them *real* again, and makes them *hurt* again. I sometimes cry out, spontaneously, without wanting to.
Well – my pain was neurological. It’s supposed to muck with my brain, but I didn’t *know* that. I couldn’t say “OMG, my brain is doing nasty crap to me because I’m in pain!”
I thought that I had traumatic memories. I did, but that wasn’t the real cause.
I thought I might be kinda-sorta going crazy, because I didn’t “hear voices” in my head, but I didn’t exactly *not* hear voices, and sometimes, they told me I was a stupid, rotten, hated, little sonofabitch, until I cried out to drown the voices out. But I knew they weren’t *real*. I could ignore “the voices.”
I understand someone, who said “there’s a toxic cloud that comes out of me, and sickens and worsens the lives of the people around me.” Do I sometimes feel like that? Oh, fuck yeah! But, I didn’t have any delusional belief about an actual *toxin*. And yet, now I wonder – was the toxin-guy right to report that symptom? Was that why my doctors couldn’t fix my “depression”?
Well: with that combination of inner-brain toxicity, I think I know precisely what it feels like to go “viral”. The constant, unending, drumbeat that everyone hates you, everyone is laughing at you, no one will ever forget this hideous pain they inflicted on you!!!
Problem is, people inflicting all that pain often don’t even realize they’re doing it. Fuck, that’s part of what makes it so painful, a punch in the face begins, ends, and is over, you know? No one is there saying “man up, you don’t care that I punched you in the face!” But they are saying “why can’t you handle even a bit of teasing, all in fun?”
Um. I guess this is a broken pencil response… no point.
ETA: introduction to why I was making this response, and explaining that it’s related to the post, so it’s not off topic either! Plus it’s an open thread.
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
The mistake too many people are making about Mamdani is to focus too hard on policy. Yes, policy is important and I don’t really have a problem with what he’s proposing. But the important thing to study and try to have our candidates do as similar to him as possible is how he won the primary. He knew what the electorate was concerned with and concentrated on those things. He showed humor, savvy and friendliness. He showed an understanding of the different neighborhoods and wasn’t afraid to go to any of them. He got some rivals to work with him, showing a willingness to play well with others. We need more candidates like that. Mayor Pete and AOC do a lot of this as well, which explains their popularity IMHO.
jonas
@Baud: I meant “they” being the forces screwing them over. Sorry that wasn’t too clear. I’m not sure if you’re suggesting that liberals shouldn’t go along with the narrative that a lot of voters feel they’re getting screwed, or that some liberals blame other Democrats or liberals for doing the screwing. Like it or not, that’s where the electorate’s at and the best path fowards is to fight like hell to get voters to place the blame squarely where it belongs: on the Republican party and their billionaire donors.
jonas
I agree. What these individuals do really well is talk, well, like normal people and not like focus-group tested politicians. “Relatability” is a thing and it matters.
WTFGhost
@ETtheLibrarian: Well, there’s an entire list of women (Hey, Romney – it might even be a “binder full”!) who are just sitting, waiting to be interviewed, with “alleged” becoming so frequently used that it might as well become a single key on the keyboard. They can lead with the woman he was found liable for raping, under the standards of most states, but not New York. They could then switch to Stormy Daniel’s sworn testimony. They could then move on to affidavits.
@rikyrah: hee – and vegetarian/vegan dishes to them as partakes
@Deputinize America: It was probably illegal, but, only if someone called the cops, with a recording of the call. And then they’d just fire that agent (who knew the risks!) and hire a new one to make the same offers.
I’d be all “I did not receive any funding from you, so I, personally, won’t send you the lint out of my pockets!” (Unless I had a postage-prepaid envelope….) Dead is dead; that’s a risk of doing business, and if you didn’t allow for it, “sucks to be you!!!”
Hell – I’d start to lecture them on economic theory, and soon, they’d be begging to be let off the call. “OMG, he’s describing why he stuttered – AGAIN! – doesn’t this man ever shut up?”
Well… I was the third child born, in the third year of reproduction, so I had two older siblings, both of whom learned sibling rivalry early. If I’m being annoying – no, I’ll *never* shut up. I’ll always have “annoying younger brother” juju, and I’ll always cherish it.
WTFGhost
@There go two miscreants: As I said in 2024, “from now on, all card games that have a special suit should call it the Biden suit. So, a game of bridge might have bidding, “1 heart” (that’s seven tricks, with hearts as biden.)
“1 spade” (beats one heart)
“1 no biden” (no special suit overrides all four suits)
“2 no biden” (etc.)
(Technically, it’s rare to have someone bid one no-biden, and the next person to bid a higher no-biden. Your *partner* may bid up the no-biden number, but it’s rare for an opponent to do so, unless your hand is a lot worse than you realize.)
In euchre, you’d have a biden suit, and the left and right bauer are both biden, don’t forget, gotta win 3 of 5 in your chosen biden suit.
But no one listens to me, which is probably a good thing, except when it comes to bagels and pretzels and hot cocoa and such.
WTFGhost
@Geminid: I agree – I think people who run down Democratic back-benchers are thinking they’re supposed to be activists, and talk like activists, and, no, *I* am supposed to be an activist, and scream at folks, for example, for hurting the disabled and different, and then, eventually, people agree with my screaming enough that my rep says I’ve gone too far, but have a point….
Random thought, but Suzanne mentioned liking your responses, so I’ll follow suit. There are nyms I get used to skimming (not because they’re bad, just because they’re not going to tell me something I don’t know), but my eyes do open a bit wider when I see you have something to say.
As I say about Trump, “smart people don’t tell smart people they’re smart, dude – smart folks just *listen* if you’re smart.” So, I have nothing further to say… but I do listen.
WTFGhost
@Ohio Mom: If there is justice, young people of today will have to tell their grandchildren that, no, former President Trump did not cause the invention of the phrase “to trump up charges,” it really did exist before him.
@Fair Economist: More importantly, you need a lot of ugly messages, until you find one that stings, *then* you jump on it. The Republicans do this amazingly well, because they have no regard for the truth, just, “does dropping this turd stink out all the libs?”
I hope we can drop something … less fragrant, yet just as effective, as a turd, into the discussion, and we need to crowd source that.
Another Scott
@Soprano2: I saw him driving outside DC a decade or so ago.
The car was a black AMG GT or something similar. The license plate was:
“ELEVEN”
Which is fine, but that movie came out in 1984 – a pretty long time ago….
Best wishes,
Scott.
Geminid
@Suzanne: I’m just saying that Carville only matters so much, particularly to Democratic House members who have experience of their own to draw from.
I think James Carville and the like matter most to people who talk about politics, and less for people who actually do politics at least at the congressional district level.
This could be different for statewide races. That’s one reason I’m excited (for me) about next year’s Minnesota, Illinois and Michigan Senate races. All three will be for open seats currently held by a Democrat.
I want to see what the various Democratic candidates do; what issues they center and what themes they lean into. At this point, I’m more interested in what the practitioners do than in what the talking heads say they ought to do. And most importantly, in what works.