I’m sure we all have our favorite sources for information and community, and for a lot of us, that is Balloon Juice. And of course there’s no end to good substacks or newsletters, and a few good blogs are still left. I like TPM and others as much as the next person, but there’s only one other blog besides Balloon Juice that I read regularly, and that’s The Establishment Bar.
I may have a special soft sport for them because their banner image looks a lot like the bar my parents owned and operated for my entire life, until my mom died. It was a neighborhood bar and we lived upstairs, so I spent a lot of time there.
Anyway…
I have a busy day with out-of-town company coming this afternoon, so I am gonna mostly outsource this post to them this morning.
I have never been a fan of Bernie, but I have never been a rabid hater, and I don’t see red when his name is mentioned. But it annoys the hell out of me that he uses the Democratic Party when it suits him, and he undermines the Democratic party when that suits him.
The best I can say about Bernie is that he supported Biden when Biden was president. I’ll give him that.
When Misogyny, Racism, and Antisemitism Aren’t Deal Breakers for Your Revolution
Posted by T.LaFauci
“Sorry, I screwed up.”
As human beings, we often resist admitting when we’re wrong. It is a blow to our ego when we have to admit we may have made a mistake. Depending on the severity of the error, there can be repercussions, none of which are pleasant. Someone depending on us may lose confidence. It may impact our interactions with those close to us. It may take time to get back into one’s good graces. Needless to say, having to swallow our pride and apologize is one of the most difficult things that a person has to do in their everyday life.
But it has to be done.
[snip]Bernie Sanders has no such virtue. And because of it, he cannot admit when he is wrong.
This past week showed us that, like Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders has such an inflated ego that he cannot admit when he has made an obvious error. When it came to light that his endorsed Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner had a Nazi tattoo, Sanders refused to withdraw his support, even though he has acknowledged Jewish heritage. When it later came out that Platner also had a history of racist and bigoted social media posts, Sanders remained in his corner. When Platner then began sending NDA’s to his campaign staff, Sanders remained resolutely by his side. By week’s end, there were very few original supporters of Graham Platner who stuck with someone who clearly wasn’t vetted before his Senate run. Bernie Sanders was one of those supporters.
Because to withdraw support would mean that Bernie Sanders would have to apologize. He would have to admit that he was wrong and that he made a poor decision in endorsing Graham Platner. He would have to swallow his pride and shift gears to announce his support for Janet Mills, somebody he initially refused to endorse. Admitting his mistake would require Bernie Sanders to have humility.
Instead, Bernie Sanders has doubled and tripled down.
[snip]Sanders’ own attachment to Graham Platner was clear: he was an anti-establishment Democrat whom Sanders could closely ally himself with to finally have a like-minded colleague in the United States Senate. Since Sanders himself has tried and failed to run for president twice, all that is left is for his acolytes to succeed.
Which is why he can’t have Graham Platner fail, no matter what.
Maine is the best chance to flip a Senate seat from red to blue in 2026, and Bernie Sanders is committed to his chosen candidate. But in failing to vet Graham Planter, Bernie Sanders has again shown how problematic his “revolution” truly is. At its core, it is a movement based on angry White resentment from the left. Many are racist. Many are sexist. Many are antisemitic. Graham Platner is all three, and unsurprisingly, that combination is not a deal breaker for Bernie Sanders.
We should all be grateful for Graham Planter’s candidacy because it has shown that these Sanders-backed unvetted candidates are extremely problematic and would likely get crushed in a general election. Janet Mills has always been a stronger Maine senatorial candidate, and we’re fortunate that Platner is imploding now rather than 12 months from now.
And we’re fortunate that Bernie Sanders continues backing him, showing us once again how his “revolution” relies on the absolute worst that the Democratic Party has to offer.
Open thread.
WaterGirl
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Unless it’s me.
After 2020, I was hoping to never have to talk about Bernie again. Oh well, those are then downsides of losing the election. Everyone sees an opportunity to advance their own cause.
Baud
Via reddit
kindness
I see a redux of Fetterman in Platner. I know Mills is an old but I’d prefer an actual Democrat win that seat.
Ishiyama
I would not be one bit surprised if Mr. Platner wins the primary election, and the general election, regardless of his past baggage. Did you see Mamdani’s rally last night, with Bernie & AOC?
Geminid
@kindness: Janet Mills may be 78, but she’s a spry and feisty 78. I say, let Janet cook!
Baud
@Ishiyama:
It wouldn’t surprise me either. Doesn’t mean it’ll be easy, regardless of who the nominee is.
Citizen Alan
@Baud: Fifty years after Bernie Sanders is dead and buried (assuming the human race survives that long), there will still be “Progressives” who insist that we’d all be living in a state of Nirvana if only we’d all voted for Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton.
Another Scott
Apparently St. Bernard is on a book tour for his latest book. I suspect we’ll have to hear about him for the next week or few. Oh well.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Bupalos
perhaps instead politics for Bernie is about policy not purity. Platner is a better candidate for AOC and Bernie because they have a model of politics that puts inequality and oligarchy at the center and (deliberately) decenter identity politics even as they generally align with the Democratic Party’s identity coalition.
Because much of the polarized electorate on the left now speaks in the same tones of loyalty, identity, and personalization as Trump, the idea that Bernie or AOC’s backing for Platner is an actual political commitment rather than a personal moral failing doesn’t come easily.
i still have a sneaking suspicion and hope that this very ill-considered pile-on from the purity police will in fact backfire and burnish Platner’s image as an outsider, which is what this destabilized political era requires. ItI think the “see he’s a secret Nazi” thing is a joke.
Baud
Video Reddit, a comedian tailor made for this blog’s commenters.
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
Sadly, the trolls from Russia or wherever keep pushing that theme on Reddit. Presumably, because it works to divide the left of center.
Bupalos
@kindness: Fetterman had a stroke. Everyone connected with him says he is genuinely a completely different, troubled individual since. If dems do the once-bitten twice-shy thing with anything outside the box, we’re going g to stay in the losing box.
iKropoclast
Wait, who is this Platner guy? Never heard of him? Why has he not been mentioned here before?
Kelly
A big storm swept thru the Willamette Valley Sunday. We lost power from Sunday afternoon to noon Monday. It took 16 hours longer to restore power in our neighborhood due to a lightening strike on the power line which went to ground and started a fire on the natural gas line. A six foot jet of fire erupted at the base of the power pole. Took out the buried internet fiber to.
Baud
I don’t really have a dog in the Maine Senate race, but my autocorrect would really appreciate it if Platner changed his name to Planter.
trollhattan
It’s like a baby practice apocalypse.
trollhattan
@Baud: Wart a good idea.
They Call Me Noni
@Baud: He’s adorable.
Suzanne
This brings up a minor quibble. Sanders didn’t err by endorsing Platner or anyone else. He erred by doubling down once new, negative (IMO disqualifying) information came to light.
Endorsing someone doesn’t mean you own everything they’ve ever said or done, especially if it’s something that wasn’t public knowledge. Same thing with voting for candidates. We tell voters that they need to be strategic and vote for the candidate with whom they align more closely. That it’s a chess move and not a marriage, it’s about the goals for the country and not personal character. I consider endorsements the same way and I don’t need groveling apologies, it’s not “poor decision-making” to not foresee that someone is a Nazi, FFS.
I remember SuzMom refusing to vote in 1996, the only time she has sat an election out. She was horrified by Bill Clinton’s personal conduct. Other women — other feminists — made a different judgment of the best path forward. Both are okay.
trollhattan
Bored billionaire builds museum/church to holy capitalism. So happens to be across the street from the U.S. Treasury.
qz.com/milken-center-advancing-american-dream-capitalism-museum
Geminid
@Bupalos: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez made a Facebook post a month ago where she spoke positively of Platner. If she has said anything positive about him since I cannot find it. Bernie Sanders remains a loyal Platner supporter, but I think your contention that the Bronx Congresswoman continues to support Platner is unsupported.
Deputinize America
@Bupalos:
Here’s the thing – where has Platner’s disdain for Collins come from, and why is his first run out of the box for the Senate? AOC was at least EDUCATED in public policy, and is an active, genuine, engaging candidate with unique ideas. Fetterman came from a deep background in local and state politics.
Why is a naïf without experience as a community organizer or organizational policy coming off and deserving this much airplay and energy? Is the “we hate people with expertise at the mechanics of governing having jobs with government” movement so ingrained that it afflicts the left and right?
wonkie
good blog: Obsidian Wings – “This is the Voice of Moderation. I wouldn’t go so far as to say we’ve actually SEIZED the radio station . . . “
I don’t mean that particular post. I mean generally good posts and very good people.
I’m pretty fed up with that subset of the Dem base that lives in a world of “DNC bad, shiny object good” and refuses to ACTUALLY FIND OUT ABOUT POLICY POSITIONS AND HISTORY.
It’s ironic that the same people who shout about weak Dems who don’t take strong stands and who throw the vulnerable under the bus are siding with Nazi Tattoo Guy over the lady who stood up to Trump and told him to fuck off when he tried to bully trans kids in her state.
Anyone who cares to function like a responsible rational person can find out Mills’s history–and it’s pretty good. What do we know about Platner? He’s a homophobe who says women can avoid rape by being careful who they date. And has Nazi tattoo.
He’s another fucking Simena, out for himself, conning the gullible into giving him a big career boost.
Geminid
@Ishiyama: Yes, that was an impressive crowd but I am not sure this is relevant to Platner’s candidacy. Graham Platner is not Zohran Mamdani, New York City is not Maine, and Janet Mills is not Andrew Cuomo.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@trollhattan: has he pulled a sword out of a stone? Farcical aquatic ceremonies are no basis for a system of government.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@wonkie: hi! –ral
Deputinize America
@trollhattan:
Reminder – Milken was a securities swindler who made multiple headlines in the 80s, had multiple convictions and subsequent investigations, and was pardoned by Trump in 2018. He’s a motherfucker who represents everything wrong in high finance in this benighted shithole we call a country.
Matt McIrvin
@wonkie: Like I keep saying, there’s a pattern of the “far left” actually leaning right or even MAGA on cultural stuff and justifying it with “no war but class war” rhetoric, ignoring that we don’t always get to choose what war we are in.
I thought this had died down since 2016 but it feels like it’s coming back in a big way.
PatD
@Citizen Alan: there will also be people who still believe Clinton would have won if Bernie hadn’t challenged her for the nomination.
I do hope that there are even more people capable of rationally analyzing the quality of all the candidates the Democrats have put forth in the Trump era.
kindness
@Bupalos: Except Mills is polling ahead of Susan Collins in a head to head matchup while Platner is neck and neck with Collins. Where is this ‘Dems losing’ coming from?
Melancholy Jaques
I agree with everything except this:
Our best chance to flip a seat is North Carolina.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Dude, there is a difference between insisting on purity and having lines you will not cross. I have never in life voted for any candidate for any election who I agreed with 100%. This includes when I voted for myself in school elections. Although, now that I think about those probably should have been line in the sand moments.
Falconer
PatD
@Bupalos: I watched AOC’s speech from over the weekend. She does not decenter identity at all.
trollhattan
@Deputinize America:
Yup. Gotta burnish that “reputation” before he croaks.
Meanwhile, in California, Prop 50’s chances looking up.
Melancholy Jaques
@Ishiyama:
I will bet a dinner for two at a decent restaurant that he loses by a blue mile. And that assumes he doesn’t quit before then. Campaigns take money and people.
Suzanne
@wonkie:
Sinema sucks — I have been a longtime hater of hers — but she was not untested or inexperienced. She was elected as a state rep, a state senator, and then was a US Congresswoman.
The dynamic behind her election was different. She showed centrist-independent appeal in a state/at a time where that matters. Many Dems decided that a Dem, even a shitty Dem, winning was of the utmost concern.
ETA: She didn’t “con the gullible”.
Deputinize America
OT – here’s a question. In NYC and wife has a work thing tonight that I’m not part of. I’m finding dives that I want a burger and some drinks at, but may want to hop the Number 6 train to Sally’s Bar, which is on the block with the apartment where the rigged poker games took place and may have an interesting sort of clientele. Should I try it, or is it a stunningly terrible idea?
Josie
@Geminid:
Thank you.
Baud
@kindness:
I don’t know who the better candidate is. But everyone on all side likes to say “my way or Dems lose.” And they might ask be right. We should still ignore it rather than act like hostages IMHO.
Deputinize America
@Omnes Omnibus:
“I stare that motherfucker in the face every morning. He’s wrong for this job!”
Bupalos
“Putting in your dues” has negative value in an age of conspiracism. I’d answer that last question simply “yes.” Politically speaking and even a few other things being equal, it’s simply better now in a political sense to be an outsider. None of this has to do with what people “deserve.” It’s just a growing structural reality as more and more people feel disconnected, alienated, betrayed, or (perhaps worst of all) confused about the results that the political system keeps spitting out.
They want someone who speaks language they believe to be genuine and which they can understand. I think a lot of folks on our side are underappreciating the reality that increasingly the electorate doesn’t even understand the language many Dems (and specifically old-hand Dems like Mills) are speaking. It’s not that they disagree, it’s that they almost literally don’t understand the words. That’s how we are losing to a ridiculous thing like Trump.
iKropoclast
Walking and chewing gum at once is not, in fact, challenging.
jonas
40 years of Republicans beating the anti-government drum, starting with Reagan’s quip that the scariest words in the English language were: “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
Bupalos
@jonas: That’s a part of it, but I think it’s also the simple reality that people “on both sides” genuinely believe the government to be rendering incomprehensible results. And they believe politicians to be a different breed of human.
tobie
@Deputinize America: You nailed it.
When did we come to loathe expertise? Governing is hard work if you actually want to get things done.
Kudos to Mills for fully funding education in Maine, making community college free, and expanding healthcare coverage to 100,000 Mainers. Those are tangibles and it took knowledge of state law, local govt, state fiscal policy and so on to achieve them. I haven’t looked into Woods yet but as the former chief of staff to Katie Porter, he likely has real policy chops.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: How can even *this* choad spew shit like “Republicans aren’t in charge of the government” without choking on his own BS?
surfk9
@trollhattan: Got an email this morning from Newsom. It said that I can stop donating money to Prop 50 as they have reached their fundraising goal. I have been involved in politics for over five decades and I have never had a politician tell me to stop sending money. Part of me thinks that this is some wicked trolling on his part.
We live in strange times!
Jackie
Has Bernie stepped into the open campaign manager position?
Wapiti
@Kelly: Yikes.
Seems like a situation where the electrical and natural gas crews look at the sparking inferno and draw straws to see who fixes their half of the problem first.
The internet crew isn’t involved because weekend.
Kyle Rayner
@Matt McIrvin: 100%. Drives me crazy bc it’s like “I don’t see color” which solves nothing. When the Panthers were building a coalition talking about class, they were very much also recognizing the different needs and challenges of their allies and working to identify how all could benefit from mutual support. You can’t ask people to set aside their basic needs for safety and respect by ignoring differences to make allies against a common enemy. You have to promise to respect and protect each other, acknowledging differences.
Baud
@iKropoclast:
No, but as @Matt McIrvin says, there’s a “No war but class war” push on the left, along with the Klein/Chait theme of “abandon all social issues if you want to win” in the center, that dovetail into each other.
I agree that AOC hasn’t fallen for either, to my knowledge.
Deputinize America
@jonas:
“I’m your doctor here today. Up until last week, I managed a tire store but want you to have the benefit of a fresh, original perspective; I’ve watched a whole lot of YouTube videos on this, and am confident that I can manage your symptoms…..”
Ishiyama
@Geminid: The battle outside that’s raging will soon shake your windows and rattle your halls, cause the times, they are a changing.
Straws in the wind.
Bupalos
@iKropoclast: I haven’t seen it yet but I’ll note that the rally is called “New York is not for Sale.” The central theme AOC and Bernie and Mamdani emphasizes is the perversion of ultra-wealth. That is the center, which does not mean that issues of bigotry and diversity and so-forth don’t revolve in a tight constellation around that.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Especially when they show you over and over and…….
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Yeah, AOC walks this delicate tightrope since she came in through this movement full of brocialists but is very much not one. I don’t think the rest of the old Squad or Mamdani are either. But they’re all adjacent to it.
jonas
@Deputinize America: Reminds me of this classic New Yorker cartoon.
Miss Bianca
@Ishiyama: So, in your mind, NYC and Maine are…exactly alike? Or that AOC and Bernie are equally popular in Maine and NYC, so if course if they endorse two candidates whose only thing in common is that Bernie digs both of them, Platner would win just because…?
Uh, OK. Sure, that makes COMPLETE AND TOTAL SENSE.
Ishiyama
It’s an old tactic for undercutting a rival with attacks on their character ; back in my salad days we had an expression to describe it, if anyone recalls the term: M– M–ing.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
It seems like there’s a white/nonwhite split, and perhaps a lesser male/female split.
Melancholy Jaques
@tobie:
I’m not saying it’s justified or a good idea, but losing twice to Bush II and especially the two catastrophic losses to that asshole has destroyed faith in the party’s leadership.
Paul W.
@Bupalos: So far the quotes, turnout at town halls, and polls have indicated that Platner is MORE appealing when he explains his mistakes (which he owns, and apologizes for).
This makes sense, it is in fact the first part of Watergirl’s post, and I’m uncertain why there is not understanding of this appeal and maybe even necessity of this kind of turn around candidate who represents a huge part of the electorate Dems leave completely untouched if they don’t allow for demonstrated change.
Finally, though he was tasteless and used horrible language online he is documented to have been a physical ally during the Women’s March and other occasions where he clearly stands up for democratic ideals (and is not, in fact, a secret Nazi).
Anyways, I think Watergirl (who I deeply respect and have been a member of this blog for at least a decade) is whistling past the graveyard right now. Mills is too old, stale, unable to put the energy and personal touch on this election and tone deaf to what Dems and people upset with Trump want from their candidates to win (keep filibuster, are you INSANE!?).
Matt McIrvin
(The Klein/Chait axis just infuriates me too, my wife still reads the Atlantic but every issue just pisses her off because it seems like just a pipeline for laundering reactionary ideas to liberals. “Throw the trans people under the bus” is their favorite refrain.)
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: He’s who I want to be when I grow up.
Bupalos
I guess I’m talking on a broader timeline. And polling of general elections before those matchups actually manifest is an almost completely empty exercise.
Ohio Mom
@Deputinize America: You might be surprised about how parochial New Yorkers can be. They/we have a tendency to stick to our neighborhoods and our established routes. After schlepping around all day, once we get back home, it’s unlikely we are going to go miles to some cool bar when there are plenty of watering holes near us.
All I can suggest is googling reviews.
Geminid
@Jackie: I think Joe Calvello has been Platner’s real campaign manager all along. Genevieve McDonald was hired after Platner’s successful campaign launch, and Kevin Brown only came in when she left.
Calvello was John Fetterman’s press secretary and strategist. When Fetterman started veering right, Calvello left for Chicago Mayor Brandon Williams’ campaign. Calvello was in at the beginnings of Platner’s campaign, and is the one with national connections.
Miss Bianca
@Deputinize America:
The fact that you even have to pose this question is a pretty depressing sign o’ the times.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Melancholy Jaques:
Agree.
Everybody can debate the oysterman’s viability till the cows come home but one thing that’s so frustrating about The Discourse is it’s taken as received wisdom that Mills is a safe choice and Platner is a risk when candidates like Mills have been losing to Collins for decades. Recently, even Mills said she was in a “tough spot”.
It’s like Lucy pulling the football when we see everybody get behind “clear-eyed” winners like Sara Gideon or Haley Stevens or Collin Allred.
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid: Are you suggesting that all politics is local? Very Tip O’Neil of you. I agree, but the proponents of “everything is different now” will not.
Deputinize America
@tobie:
Sanders proved himself a dilettante to me the moment that his healthcare policy was announced. It completely ignored the recession-sparking shock to equity markets, and the knock on effect of the destruction of the retirement savings invested by pensions and 401Ks – and 30% of blue chips are in brick and mortar healthcare, pharmaceuticals and health insurers.
No consideration of the need for buy-in, lead times or knowledge that this would happen was uttered at all – it was all magic beans.
iKropoclast
I understand. Personally I’m off the mind that helping everyone means everyone. Class-oriented language, for better or for worse, is more intrinsically inclusive. People do try to be too cute by implying otherwise, or outright stating otherwise like HRC in the 08 primary, but we’re all the working class together. We all work. We all get paid too little. We all tolerate this due to manufactured scarcity or else we starve.
I wont vote for someone, no matter how amazing their economic proposals, if they intended to exclude non-white people or otherwise discriminate. But these are things that should show up in their rhetoric or the details of their plan.
Hell, I don’t want to vote for Seth Moulton over age bigotry and he isn’t even proposing to put it into law. But having a burden of proof beyond vibes, would be good. At least, it might help the folk here get along.
trollhattan
@Melancholy Jaques:
Won’t pretend to understand Maine politics and will just add the last time they elected a Democrat to the senate was 1988. Suzie of the Furrowed Fields and Lessons Learned meanwhile, has held office since 1996.
What is Maine’s motivation to send Suzie packing? Has anything changed to pry her from her bespoke senatorial chair?
M31
@Deputinize America:
yup, your symptoms show you need a valve replacement and some balancing and you’ll be good for another 20K miles
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: PA has quite a few progressives/people on the left flank of the party who are PoC, women, etc. There has been a conflation here of people on the left side of the party (who are diverse) with white dudebros who only occasionally vote for Dems but who are loud on Twitter. It’s erasing, and it’s incredibly alienating, IMO.
jonas
@Deputinize America: I’ll add that there’s also this popular perception that professional or technical expertise is about doing something useful whereas all you get good at through a long career in politics and public service is how to get fat and lazy at taxpayer expense. That seems to only apply to Democrats, however, because when Republicans do things like, I don’t know, purchase private jets for cushy air travel during a government shutdown or brazenly pardon people who bribe them, it somehow doesn’t register.
Shakti
Helpful thread with reference examples on how to argue against something:
bsky.app/profile/anthonymoser.com/post/3lzlqkyhxws2r
Baud
@iKropoclast:
Class is more inclusive because there’s a large white working class. Social issues are necessarily less inclusive because they tend to benefit marginalized people against the white working class.
So talking about inclusivity doesn’t advance the ball in this context. iMHO.
Kyle Rayner
@Suzanne: Agreed, the conflation is frustrating! It’s writing people off as talking in hypotheticals, while to many of us it’s our very rights on the line and there’s nothing theoretical or idealist about it.
Captain C
@Baud: At this point I have no idea whether the Squeaker even believes what he says from minute to minute. The only thing I’m confident about is that he has a depraved porn habit that he shares with his son.
I also wonder if he’s in the Epstein files for trying to live out some of those depraved porn fantasies.
Did any reporter ask him, “Republicans control the White House and both houses of Congress, and six of the SCOTUS judges are Republican appointees. How exactly do Republicans not have full control of the government?”
CaseyL
The Brocialists are the new LaRouchies.
They present as “leftist,” or at least “left-ish,” but once you take a closer look, they’re only “left” on one issue – the economy – and in service of that, they will undermine every other issue, and everyone else in the coalition. They also focus on one single issue and will sit out the election if they are not satisfied with the Democratic candidate’s “vibes” on that one single issue.
They are an indigestible mass, are not the least little bit reliable, and will continue to cost us winnable elections.
Bupalos
@Paul W.: I agree and I think a lot of very well meaning and intelligent people are whistling past the graveyard. The Democratic Party is in much worse shape than we want to acknowledge. For all the talk of “normalization” we’ve normalized the idea that losing to Trump is just a kind of fluke, due to his unique talents and the spectacularly exceptional racism of the Unites States, and that we’ll revert to form when he’s gone.
I think the fact is that the underlying structure has shifted, and the Republicans arrived at their response to this shift years ago while we’re still in a kind of political denial that is going to produce shocking losses like climate change produces catastrophes.
Miss Bianca
@Deputinize America: That was a tell, all right.
schrodingers_cat
@CaseyL: Nailed it.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: I think it was Matthew Yglesias, of all people, who named that “The Pundit’s Fallacy”: simply assuming that what you want is what The People want.
Baud
@Baud:
Ask = all
Suzanne
@jonas:
I will say that it drives me crazy that there seems to be this broad belief that a law degree is the primary vector into elected life. Second only to a business degree or business ownership. Like, why? Lawyers mostly talk like lawyers and it’s another thing that’s broadly alienating.
This is related to my complaint about when candidates have a Problematic Employer in their past, such as McKinsey. Why is the U.S. military not considered a Problematic Employer?
Fair Economist
@Suzanne: I think it was a mistake for Bernie to endorse Platner, because while he couldn’t know this would happen, it is certainly plausible for an unvetted candidate running for high office with no prior experience to implode like this. If he had made some supportive comments like AOC he could just let it drop now withput looking foolish. Now he’s tied himself to a candidate who would have absolutely no chance against a capable pol like Collins with a huge warchest for endless damning targeted ads on social media. There are commenters here who have said they wouldn’t let somebody with a Nazi tattoo like Platner’s walk their dog. He’ll lose a lot of votes to people like that, along with those horrified by his fairly recent racist and homophobic comments, who will also be targetef by a avalanche of negative ads on their Facebook/TikTok/YouTube/whatever feeds.
TXG1112
Unless you are a voter in Maine, this whole discussion is a pointless exercise in mental masturbation. To me, both candidates are fatally flawed and I’m glad I don’t have to make a decision. The only thing that matters is that the senate seat go to someone who will caucus with the Democrats in the next congress
Steve in the ATL
Free tip for the employment law aficionados on B-J today: the ADA applies to service animals—trained to perform a specific task related to a disability—but not to emotional support animals. So, Ms. Employee, your request to bring your chihuahua to work with you is denied.
Further bulletins as events warrant.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
Look: the fact that some groups are regularly treated with less respect, given fewer opportunities, and are on the receiving end of more governmental violence than us white folks are, and that they and their allies want to do something about that, ISN’T ‘IDENTITY POLITICS.’
It’s a fucking human rights issue.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: So, in your view, the solution is to run people with multiple, obvious examples of bad judgment as long as they pretend to be authentic outsiders? That seems sus.
Miss Bianca
@Steve in the ATL: You’re going to have fun making Ms Employee cry, aren’t you?//
Better make sure that Chihuahua doesn’t bite you for that – “tho’ they be little, they be fierce.”
Geminid
@Ishiyama: Yes, a lot of people want to nationalize the significance of Zohran Mamdani’s campaign and now they try to do the same with Platner’s.
Meanwhile, Mikie Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger are running for governor in states more representative of the national electorate than either Maine or New York City, but they get little attention. I wonder why that is.
Matt McIrvin
@CaseyL: To be fair, the economy is a huge deal.
But I also want to amend that a little: Many of them *actually* only care about foreign policy and specifically opposing all US intervention anywhere. I think that more than anything made some of them Trump-curious, because of Trump’s America First streak– but here he is using the military to sink random boats, threatening invasion of Venezuela and claiming he’s fighting narcoterrorists.
Ruckus
@Deputinize America:
Sometimes you have few choices and have to go with least bad. It’s not necessarily a good choice but if it’s better than the opposition….
I have a concept of people who like power. The longer they are in whatever position that gives them power, even if it isn’t the highest rung up the ladder, often the more they like it. Not everyone is in life for all the power they can find, but often people that are in politics seem to enjoy the power that gives them, especially the longer they hold on to that power. Politics does give power, the level depending on the office, and some do not abuse it, but more than a few enjoy keeping that power. It is after all humanity. I’ve had a bit of it, in the military and in the business world. A bit, spelled with a small b. If one can keep that power from being their only road through life it’s better. But many cannot see that road, they see their road with one wide lane and an unlimited speed limit. And like it. It is after all – humanity and takes all kinds.
no body no name
@jonas:
Reagan’s quote was a direct call to school integration.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s a theory. Americans hate Democrats, and Democrats don’t have themselves enough to nominate outsiders that often.
The problem is, how many voters would choose a lefty outsider over a Republican? There’s not much evidence of it happening except in solid blue areas.
Gin & Tonic
Oh, goodie! Another couple of hundred comments about Platner. I’m glad there’s nothing else going on in the world.
Baud
@Geminid:
People are ignoring NJ and there’s a good chance of losing there.
Steve in the ATL
@Miss Bianca: I can neither confirm nor deny that allegation!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Bupalos:
Yup. It’s a variation of “What we’re saying never fails, it can only be failed”, in this case, it’s the electorate that’s wrong.
Bupalos
@Fair Economist: I think you’re assuming some things about politics that simply are no longer true.
It could be true that Platner having some really rough edges and Mills having a ton of money and a mastery of an old playbook would spell his doom. It also could be very much not true, and recent history shows more spectacular examples of the latter than the former.
I remember announcing confidently to my wife that the election was over in late 2015 when Trump was exposed as bragging about literal sexual assault. We found out the rules had changed without us knowing.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Then we could support him by buying his peanuts.
Shakti
I hope this woman can be successfully removed from office.
https://www.mlive.com/news/2025/10/a-michigan-elected-official-is-married-to-a-neo-nazi-some-constituents-have-a-problem-with-that.html
archive.ph/WBhJ3
archive.ph/WBhJ3
Deputinize America
@Steve in the ATL:
“But I really NEED him with me!” (spoken in an ear splitting keening whine)
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Gin & Tonic: Well, if it makes you feel any better, accepting white supremacy is now en vogue. So there’s that.
no body no name
@Matt McIrvin:
Venezuela will go down worse than Iraq.
prostratedragon
Several views:
Luckovich
Clay Bennett
Lalo Alcaraz
For those who hadn’t heard about the arc: Ann Telnaes
Anyway
Not far from reality in BrainWorms Jr’s HHS
Melancholy Jaques
@Paul W.:
If Maine voters gave a rat’s ass about the filibuster they wouldn’t have re-elected Collins in 2020 by eight points while voting for Joe Biden by nine points. Sara Gideon’s campaign was explicitly anti-Trump and Maine voters did not fucking care. Why do people think they will now?
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Is that getting a lot of pushback? I haven’t seen much.
dearmaizie
@Baud: LOL
I’m not so sure Planter isn’t more accurate b/c he is a plant. Blame the environment, but not so sure they get him elected and he switches. trump’ll do anything.
dearmaizie
Also, BS is a sexist. Always has been. Sadly, too, can’t name one politician who admits they’re wrong!
Geminid
@Baud: The polls I’ve seen lately tell me Mikie Sherrill has a better chance of winning New Jersey than does Jack Ciattarelli. But it will be close. Ciattarelli came up only 4 points short in 2021, when he ran against Phil Murphy.
Deputinize America
@Shakti:
So odd that so many self-identified “libertarians” find so much common cause with Nazis…..
Raoul Paste
@Omnes Omnibus: This is a very good point. The number one thing you want in a government official is good judgment.
Jackie
@Paul W.:
Are you speaking as a Maine voter?
lowtechcyclist
@Deputinize America:
And for those reasons, was the model for Gordon Gekko.
tobie
@Melancholy Jaques: Did you think that people lost faith in populists when Iron Stache lost even though he raked in huge donations and was hailed as the future face of the party? Or when Buttigieg had Bernie on the ropes in Iowa and then NH in the 2020 primaries? Or when Nina Turner got trounced twice?
One of the things that amazes me about populists is that they never question their positions. Defeat is always someone’s fault because they are the voice of the people, not the money bags. And in the rare cases when they win, it’s because the voice of the people rose triumphant and had absolutely nothing to do with circumstance.
Kirklin
@Ruckus: Good point.
Power is addictive, and the more you have the easier it is to abuse it – intentionally or otherwise.
iKropoclast
Not directly in terms of racial justice, perhaps. It does occur to me that people who may recognize there’s no good reason to include them as a group in racial justice initiatives might still expect to be included in economic plans. Still, we do not have racial justice in the economic sphere, so seeking more economic justice should, in the aggregate, provide some degree of additional racial justice. It also promotes integration, which makes the culture more amenable to racial justice questions.
And Democrats do form their economic plans this way, the “for everyone” thing and the “for the affected populations” thing. They work to be inclusive. The unfortunate thing is reality doesn’t dictate the discourse, convenience does. This gets weaponized against both the more socialist and more capitalist end of the party for different reasons. This is why it’s important to not get swept up in these sort of bandwagon narratives. The center will keep pointing at the de-centering of racial issues some leftists engage in and the left will point at the respectability politics as enforcing white male priorities and both will be right, but the generalizing ensures we never see humanity across and within these broader groups and just keep fighting.
Kyle Rayner
@Deputinize America: Cut a 2012 libertarian, a 2025 nazi bleeds. These days, the two groups are straight up playing patty-cake out back.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I think I see part of the problem here. You see to see Platner’s issues as “rough edges”. Others have a more dim view of rape apologetics and wearing Nazi ink for nearly two decades. But opinions differ…
lowtechcyclist
@PatD:
Dunno about that, but there are definitely people [raises hand] who believe that if Bernie had thrown his support behind Clinton once it was clear that he’d lost, rather than playing sore loser for months, it might’ve made the difference.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s to run people that are perceived as genuine, which in this and coming years is going to almost require a resume that doesn’t look like someone was planning to run for office.
So my answer is pretty much just “yes.” Being relatable and speaking a language that people understand is going to be (already is, I think) more important than making sure the closet is empty. Platner getting drunk, getting an edgy tattoo, shooting his mouth off like a total clown online….. that’s pretty much right down the line of the kind of “bad judgement” people are going to resonate with I think. Getting plowed under for these kind of missteps I think may resonate with people’s broader fears about this age.
prostratedragon
@Baud: From Clay Bennett, Speaker’s To Do List
Deputinize America
@Kyle Rayner:
“I should be free to hate people I want to hate, and exclude their participation in my business…”
Omnes Omnibus
@dearmaizie: Biden.
Professor Bigfoot
@Gin & Tonic: LET THE RECORD SHOW that it wasn’t me!
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: Yeah, the people I’m thinking of mostly don’t identify as Democrats and in fact spend a lot of time trying to get people not to vote for Democrats.
Kirklin
@Bupalos: So “Someone I’d have a beer with” instead of “experienced professional.”
tobie
@Omnes Omnibus: Do not make me laugh when I’ve worked myself up into a self-righteous rage. How else can I get an endorphin rush?
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s right. I do think he’s not actually a secret nazi or guy that likes rape or whatever. He just shoots his mouth off unadvisedly, like most people.
It’s pretty funny that the right is doing the same thing with him because he also shot his mouth off and called rurals dumb racists. He’s Shroedinger’s morality play.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Holy fuck. Wow.
iKropoclast
Fun fact, there are more than two candidates. There are a lot more than two candidates.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I neither said that he was a Nazi nor that he liked rape. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
lowtechcyclist
@surfk9:
Or it’s a sign of the End Times.
Bupalos
@Kirklin: I think that puts it in 2008 language. I think we’re well past that, and in the crisis of trust it’s more like “someone I believe might not be a synthetic lizard person groomed in a lab to farm my children.”
Paul in KY
@Citizen Alan: And they’d be higher than shit on their spaceweed ™.
Melancholy Jaques
@Geminid:
Because they do not provide people with an opportunity to air grievances or take shots at each other.
We did have a fundraiser post for Spanberger yesterday. I don’t know why we do not talk about Sherrill. New Jersey scares me.
lowtechcyclist
@Jackie:
“Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.”
Mr. Bemused Senior
Changing the topic to JD Vance?
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I don’t see why you include Haley Stevens in that list along with Sara Gideon and Colin Allredd. I’m not saying she’s the best candidate in the Michigan Senate race and I’d probably vote for Mallory McMorrow if I lived there, but Haley Stevens has won 4 of 4 House races, and she flipped a Republican seat in her first one.
no body no name
@Melancholy Jaques:
VA is a sealed deal due to the shutdown now. It wasn’t even much of a competition to start with.
tam1MI
“Vote for me, I’m not like the other Dems”, has been a compelling and winning message for Dem candidates for decades now. This is especially a parent at the presidential level. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama all ran and won on variations of, “Pick me, I’m not like the other Democrats “.
Shakti
@Deputinize America:
That’s why I don’t want to sit there or listen to apologias about Platner, in service of some bullshit about retaking the senate.
Here’s a link to the Guardian article (archive) about Chris Booth the husband of Megyn Booth, an elected official in a Michigan county.
Jackie
@lowtechcyclist:
Isn’t it quaint that Jimmy Carter had to sell his peanut farm! Integrity and actually following the laws pertaining to conflicts of interest is sooo last century.
Paul in KY
@Baud: Ha! Had some good laughs. Good on him for getting out there and doing his thing!
Melancholy Jaques
@tobie:
Who is Iron Stache?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Melancholy Jaques:
commondreams.org/news/randy-bryce-2026
Paul in KY
@Deputinize America: I hope he had disdain for her cause she caucuses with the GQP and when she had a chance to move to Independent and caucus with us (when we had the majority) she didn’t.
So fuck her.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Not getting into the silly semantics of whether “I don’t think he’s a secret nazi” is claiming you said he was. And yes I do think that his tattoo and his various online blathering are just normal “rough edges” from a person’s past. I don’t doubt that most of the people even here which is far from the center of the electorate would have examples of similarly bad judgement. It’s part of living that you progress from a series of beta versions to the latest beta version. I think Platner is probably a pretty good dude, but I don’t support him from personal assessment in any event. We need various versions of the anti-oligarchic politician going forward. He looks to be one of them.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’ve noticed that Common Dreams is all-in on Platner.
Kathleen
@Another Scott: Good Lord. How many ways can you say Democrats do nothing for white people (aka “The Working Class”)?
Melancholy Jaques
@no body no name:
I’ve spent my whole life as a Cleveland sports fan. I don’t believe we’ve won a game until I read about it the following day.
Here in Riverside County, CA, we are phone banking for Prop 50. I don’t think there is a political activity I hate more than phone banking. Every person you are calling wishes that you didn’t.
Paul in KY
@Melancholy Jaques: Agree on that. Ole Furrowed Brow is damn hard to defenestrate from the Senate.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: Yup. I have a hard time seeing Maine go full Lefty for a Senator. It’s the most notoriously right-wing state in New England. My guess is if Platner somehow wins the primary we get Collins again, in a landslide. But who knows…
dm
@surfk9: Mamdani did that s while ago. He asked people i give time, instead. Talk to their neighbors, volunteer, phone-bank, that sort of thing.
Baud
@Geminid:
No surprise. They’re pretty much in the Bernie camp.
TONYG
@Baud: What an idiot that guy is. What does he do for a living anyway?
TONYG
@Baud: What an idiot that guy is. What does he do for a living anyway?
Paul in KY
@surfk9: He has a knack for it, I think. Really think he could be a great Dem nominee in 2028.
TONYG
@TONYG: I do not know why the application repeated my dumb comment twice!
iKropoclast
@TONYG: To make up for the times it didn’t post a comment at all.
That bears repeating about Johnson, anyway.
tobie
@Melancholy Jaques: Iron Stache is Randy Bryce. He ran against Paul Ryan in 2018. We had great hopes but Ryan won. Kenosha always disappoints. Here’s Bryce’s campaign video.
Instagram share.google/2YR9JYEIbc5wY9YCE
tam1MI
What drives me nuts is that these people keep referring to themselves as “the base” of the party. They’re not the base! The base are The people who show up to vote for Democrats in every single election, no matter what. That’s not them.
I will note that this arrogant assumption about them being “the base” of the party hurts them as much or more than it hurts, for want of a better term, “real Dems”, since it prevents them from crafting effective strategies to achieve their goals.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Geminid:
I don’t read them on anything close to a regular basis but know that some of their authors align on certain policy issues with me.
I used that link from a search because I’d forgotten about him and was interested in the fact he’s running for office again.
TONYG
@kindness: Platner is apparently worse then Fetterman. Fetterman never had a Nazi SS tattoo, did he?
trollhattan
@surfk9:
Seems like something that could get Gav into trouble. “Stop raising money? Are you daft, man?!?”
IDK if they have magical algorithms re. the number of ballots received and where the polls sit, a week out. Can they predict the results with any level of confidence?
Assuming it passes it will then sink in this moves nothing until next November.
WTFGhost
I think I’ve decided I’m glad I can’t talk. I’m going to drive back to Philly and play in traffic. The Roosevelt Expressway was always my favorite.
Jackie
@Melancholy Jaques: Someone agrees with you:
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: She’s out there supporting TACO’s crazy Bugaloo24-The Reaping administration. Hopefully that has got some of the ones who have previously voted for her to seriously examine her (finally).
Bupalos
@PatD: I just finished it and I would say she definitely does. But I think “decentered” has come to mean “memory-holed” or something now.
Like the center of that speech and where just about everything flows from is the idea that the wealthy are in control. The rally is “New York will not be Sold” not “New York will not be Ethnically Oppressed.” If you’re familiar with the entire WFP/DemSoc line, this speech is very much in line with the usual way of including while decentering “social issues.”
Omnes Omnibus
@WTFGhost: Have fun.
trollhattan
Squeaker Mike has thoughts.
The Irony Fairy just punched him in the junk for that last bit.
dc
Prior to this senate run, what has Platner done that would support labeling him progressive? Was he in a union or any organization that supports worker’s rights? How about the environment and climate change, did he do anything in his life prior to show he wanted to fight climate change and protect an environment in which humans and other present life forms could continue on the planet? What about protecting everyone’s civil and human rights (yes, that means trans people, women, black people, immigrants, gay men, lesbians, workers, homeless people, poor people, etc.), what has he done? Done, not said recently. And so on. What has this person done that anyone would be believe he has progressive values that he will support come hell or high water? All this and then the ability to make any plan work, does he know how to do that even?
iKropoclast
That would describe me, I have consistently supported Democrats. Still, I would never begin to pretend that elected Democrats’ priorities are dovetail with mine. They seemed to be improving, by my estimate, from 06 to last year, but now they’re regressing. Something broke.
Personally, I’m saving my greatest skepticism for those ready to dump immigrants and trans people off the boat. But our economy was built to sustain white supremacist power, it would be naive to think those looking to preserve some former status quo are actually furthering the cause of racial justice.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Is that true? Is there much rejoicing now that our long national nightmare is now over?
Paul in KY
@Steve in the ATL: Unless they have documented proof that their animal stops them from killing everyone, then leave Fluffy at home.
If they have the documented proof, then we go to HR…
zhena gogolia
@tobie: “Kenosha always disappoints.” 😂 I see you’ve been to Kenosha.
Melancholy Jaques
@tobie:
Totally forgot about that guy.
iKropoclast
@dc: I have only seen one issue where Platner engaged in activism, Palestinian autonomy.
JoeyJoeJoe
@tobie: I thought that was the year Paul Ryan retired. Bryce ended up losing in a landslide, I believe. Bryan Steil, the winner of that election, is still in Congress.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: 😂
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, but don’t you see…being a white guy who gets Nazi ink and blames teh bitchez for being all slutty and shit and saying dumbass racist and sexist BS online is JUST SO RELATABLE TO ALL OF US and JUST SO RELATABLE to the job of being a US Senator, am I not right??
trollhattan
@Paul in KY:
Wonder if she really supports him or is just scared of him getting mad at her for some misstep? TBH I cannot name one thing she actually believes.
My bro in neighboring NH doesn’t even understand Maine politics. Of course, NH has its own bizarre take on the topic, such as 203 legislative districts and 400 members in a state the size of a blanket.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
Who do you mean ‘we,’ paleface? There may be some people here who’ve said that, but plenty of others (Baud comes to mind) who’ve expressed serious doubts about that.
In my case, my predictometer has been broken since 2016, and I still haven’t figured out how to fix it. I also remember when the GOP had no trouble uniting behind the very uncharismatic George W. Bush.
Emily B.
@Baud: So much focus has been on flipping Virginia, while it feels as though the New Jersey race has been taken for granted. It’s a nailbiter, even if Sherrill is slightly ahead in the polls. New Jersey is waaay more purple than most people think.
dm
I’d love a moratorium on Platner talk until maybe March (I think the Maine primary is in June)? It’s not like anything we say here is going to change the state of play in Maine, nor accomplish anything but make people mad at one another.
iKropoclast
@Baud: My line from the beginning, Jeffries should endorse who he wants. One would think that as an official elected from the city, he’d have been very well read in on the various candidates.
I would hate to think he was pressured into doing something he didn’t want because it “looked” best for him or placated some baying horde.
Isn’t that the goal, here?
Paul W.
@Melancholy Jaques: I’m sorry, so what exactly then is Mills offering besides who holds the majority in the Senate?
She isn’t offering change or even the most basic of legislative accomplishments that could be done if we can’t do more than a single reconciliation bill.
Court reform? Nope. New regulations? Nope. Laws to punish rogue agents and put in place new restrictions on things like the President demolishing the WH or offering a crypto coin WHILE IN OFFICE? Nope.
I don’t know what Mills is selling, but it isn’t anything useful in the age of post-Trump/Trump.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Republican politics and political strength before Trump wasn’t exactly ideal in any event.
Hildebrand
@Bupalos: It’s not ‘just’ an edgy tattoo! C’mon, you’ve got more sense than that. It’s a bloody nazi tattoo…and yes, that is all the way beyond the pale. We aren’t shitting on Platner because he is edgy, but because he is a bigot. Those are not the same thing.
Lastly, the primary is months away and perhaps another Mainer who isn’t a former blackwater shithead might step up to the plate and run in the primary. I mean, what happened to the brewer guy? Why does it have to be a choice between the governor and the knave?
WaterGirl
@jonas: That is awesome.
Miss Bianca
@dc: oh, stop asking reasonable questions! And just get with the relatable rough edges already!
JML
@Shakti: I flat-out do not understand the couples with wildly divergent political views. At the end of the day your politics should reflect your values and how the hell can you be married to someone who doesn’t share your values? I’m not saying you have to agree on everything, but good grief.
Of course, I’m one of those people who feels a burning rage building every time someone tells me there’s no difference between the republican and democratic parties, so I guess if you’re one of those “no difference” people 1) I have a rant I’d like to share with you, and 2) I guess it doesn’t matter for you? I’ll never understand.
You’d think you’d notice if your partner in life had become a neo-Nazi, though. And if that’s not a deal-breaker for you…what is?
Baud
@iKropoclast:
I’m pretty confident he wasn’t pressured into anything. But I can’t say I understand NY politics at all.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
It’s the ‘engagement’ model. What story is anyone going to tell about Spanberger that’s going to have people arguing with each other all day? (No idea about Sherrill, I’ve never known jack shit about NJ politics.)
dc
@iKropoclast:
Was this before he jumped into the senate race?
WTFGhost
@Omnes Omnibus: Heh. I do my best not to have fun; it only extends my life.
iKropoclast
Me neither and I’m not sure I’d want to.
Paul in KY
@lowtechcyclist: Count me in that group. Was about like Ted in 1980.
Captain C
@Shakti:
With the bolded change, this could be a FTFNYT headline:
Also:
So wanting to murder all the Jews and other ‘undesirables’ and install a white supremacist dictatorship is just a “different perspective” on “political or social views.” If you’re married to a neo-Nazi and basically fine with him holding those views, you are at best a collaborator and are thus unfit for public office.
Seriously, someone should give her some of his choice quotes and ask if this is just a ‘different perspective’ on ‘political or social views.’
Miss Bianca
@Paul W.: Ah, yet another person who believes that a record of actual progressive accomplishment is just such so quaint these days.
WaterGirl
@Paul W.:
I agree with you – the filibuster has to go – but if you have seen Mills in action you would know that she is not stale and has tons of energy. Her age is her age, but I think she is a very young whatever-her-age-is.
iKropoclast
Two decades strong, if reporters are to be trusted, and we seem to trust them in the Reddit posts.
Also, another data point on the ledger for “leftists didn’t just invent Gaza as an issue to throw the 2024 election.” Possibly the worst among commonly held opinions here.
Captain C
@tobie:
I SPEAK FOR THE PEOPLE!!!
Um, which people?
ALL THE PEOPLE!!!
Do they know this?
Captain C
@Bupalos:
A Totenkopf from the unit which ran Auschwitz is “edgy”?
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: I thought it was a post about Bernie. But it does seem to have become at least partially about Platner.
Though your point still stands. There’s a lot going on that deserves attention.
NutmegAgain
Just a note regarding that whole, “no experience, but see how wonderful/charismatic/ready to shake it all up I can be” candidate. Yeah, Jill Stein. First ran for Governor with zero political experience, not even dog catcher etc. Then she went for President, with (maybe) one stretch in the participatory town government. All ego, no experience = corruption eventually, I think.
trollhattan
@dm:
I’d like to focus on the price of lobstah, personally. What with beef so expensive, I need an alternative.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I used to read Common Dreams to see what the Lefties were talking about. People there used to debate whether Bernie Sanders was the real deal, or a “sheepdog” herding unsuspecting Lefties into the Democratic fold.
They also used to carry articles about Bernie Sanders’ efforts to cut off arms sales to Saudi Arabia on account of that nation’s involvement in the civil war in Yemen. Then a couple years ago, the Omanis brokered a ceasefire between Saudi Arabia and Iran, who had sponsored the two sides in Yemen and I thought, “I wonder what the folks at Common Dreams have to say about this?”
They did not have one article about the ceasefire! That war had gone one for a decade and UN agencies said it caused the worst humanitarian crisis in all the world, but Common Dreams had nothing to say about its resolution. That showed me something about Common Dreams and that sector of the Left
Paul in KY
@tam1MI: All 3 of them were ‘outsiders’ to most of their primary opponents and also to the GQPers.
trollhattan
@Hildebrand:
I think we can all agree he has the necessary quals to become Donny’s SefDef.
Past that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
iKropoclast
I have been hearing some version of this socio(?)pathic line increasingly this year. Like what should you care whether the people in your life want to hurt vulnerable communities if you aren’t in those communities? I hear some version of this repeatedly as I denounce anti-immigration policies Trump has been taking.
And god forbid you get a little passionate about it. Even if your discussing the violent removal and, often, murder of a population of millions and the person arguing against you is upset, you win, QED.
Captain C
@trollhattan:
Every Accusation Is A Confession
(EAIAC)
PatD
@Geminid: the entirety of the Democratic Party coalition got behind those candidates and none of them have to deal with the moldy carcass of Andrew Cuomo. No one’s asking Hakeem Jeffries to weigh in on their campaigns.
Also, they are running typical Dem campaigns that don’t make much noise in the media environment. I’m guessing they’re mostly fine with flying under the radar.
WaterGirl
@no body no name: You keep saying that, and I hope it’s true, but we don’t really know that.
Betty
@TXG1112: Which is why I have been asking on social media why we still talking about this? Platner can run, Mills can run. Maine voters will decide. I am not a Maine voter, and neither are most of the people arguing passionately about this race.
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
We humans often forget that ego is a human trait and it sometimes shows up as EGO. We aren’t all the same and some are almost completely outside of the concept of human. IOW we are all human, which means we don’t always see the same thing, path, need, etc. We have a need for survival and a lot of different concepts of what that means and how we survive. For some it’s eating regular and not being a pain in everyone else’s ass, for others it’s that same eating thing and BEING A PAIN IN EVERYONE ELSE’S ASS. And all shades and sides to that show up. I’ve been in a couple of power positions and the concept that power is better than not is not automatic among humans. Some get so used to power that they can’t see not having all they can get, and often abuse that power to one degree or several degrees while others just want to breathe and eat and not be bothered. Humanity is a wide range of lead/follow, spotlights/darkness, demand/respond, hide/get along. And how any human does those things can make things better or worse. Or far better or far worse. I’ve typed this here before. This world is a far bit different than when a fair number of us were born a fair bit of time ago. Is it better? In many ways absolutely. In every way? I don’t think so. But then it is humanity, in all it’s directions, boxes, ways and results. Medicine is far better. Now if everyone could get what they need from medicine. Will humanity ever be great for everyone? Only if the concept of greed is gone. Greed Gone? While greed is the absolute basis of a not insignificant percentage of humans? Yeah, I don’t see this changing much anytime soon. How do we make it actually equal and fair? I don’t see that an answer exists. And I ain’t holding my breath. But then I’m an old, with decades of examples of greed of many levels having come and gone. Life/living is far different than when I was a kid, and yet it is, in many ways, much the same. Medicine is far better, but not everyone gets the best or any treatment. And on and on. Look at what we are doing, the longest backyard fence since day one and we get to talk, discuss and possibly learn something. Hopefully it will be a positive something. We know so much more than we did in the lifetimes of living humans that it can boggle the mind. We very likely have so much more to learn that boggled mind reels. Is life better today than in the lifetime of the older segment? Absolutely YES. Could it still be better? Same, absolutely, YES.
Suzanne
So, I learned recently that Graham Platner is the grandson of Warren Platner, modernist architect and designer of the coffee table that you’ve undoubtedly seen in a douchey corporate lobby. It too can be yours for a cool $11K.
iKropoclast
They don’t provide a venue for me as a good white liberal to burnish my credentials as the most enthusiastic in hating our enemies.
arrieve
@Geminid: I’ve been mostly laid up with a horrible sinus infection for the past week, so I’ve seen a lot more broadcast TV than usual.
I’m in NYC, and the ads for the NJ Governor’s campaign are non-stop–often a Ciattarelli ad, followed immediately by a Mikie Sherrill ad, followed by another Ciattarelli ad.
And Sherrill’s ads are–not great. None of them fail to mention that she was a Navy helicopter pilot, but sometimes they don’t talk about much else. Ciattarelli is spending a lot of time talking about how much money she’s made in Congress and how she supports green energy (with a quote of her saying, “it’s going to cost you an arm and a leg, but if you’re a good person, you’ll do it.”) She does not really respond at all. Ciattarelli is a real scumbag, and some of the ads talk about his support for parental rights for rapists, but earlier ads paint him as true MAGA with Trump’s support, and those don’t seem to be running anymore.
I have to admit, I’m worried about this one.
PatD
@Melancholy Jaques: I think they have to do the work of making people care about an issue. The filibuster was not as salient when Gideon ran as it may be today, considering that Dems cannot even begin to fix Trump’s mess without reforming its use.
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: I think she supports some of the stuff and is cowed on the other stuff she should be speaking up on. IMO, she is craven.
cain
@iKropoclast:
I think he bought me a coffee once.
Paul in KY
@Captain C: In post-1944 Germany and later…
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
Yanno, it’s like when people get drunk and say horrid things. Those horrid things were there inside them all along, but the alcohol loosened the restraints.
Now you’re just saying that in his case, the restraints were loosened all along. So OK, he thinks rape is no big deal and probably was the woman’s fault anyway, and he speaks of gays in an insulting and derogatory way, and of course the Nazi tattoo. At some point you’ve got to say, this is who Platner is.
He shoots his mouth off like this, saying things like these, because that’s who he is. As the cartoon says, “he tells it like it is.”
jonas
Johnson was too poor and inconsequential to have had anything to do with Epstein. He’s simply covering for Trump and a bunch of other billionaire Republicans and international jet-set types Trump also wants to protect because he thinks he’s one of them.
PatD
@lowtechcyclist: Clinton was in a position to win until Comey decided to interfere in the election. I think there’s a few other factors that rank above whether Bernie took too long to endorse her that made a difference in that race.
iKropoclast
@Gin & Tonic: Fluff your feathers, boys! Beaks held high, and strut, strut, strut…
Paul in KY
@arrieve: IMO, you have to respond to out-and-out lies that take a snippet of a sentence and twist it around.
McGrath is just like that. They run these ads with a comment she made at a Mass. fundraiser “I’m the most liberal person in KY.”
Narrator Voice: “She’s not.”
Ha, ha! Just a joke line. The GQP has hammered her with that quote and I’ve never seen her rebut it in any way.
lowtechcyclist
@no body no name:
The VA AG race is a tossup, and if the Republican wins, he could short-circuit VA’s redistricting that could otherwise add 2-3 Dem seats. That could potentially decide control of the House a year from now.
Socolofi
I this thread has nearly run its course… allow me one quick bandwagon…
There’s a bunch of people who agree with (most of) the Democratic positions, but are really mad that Democrats can’t win, can’t get anything done, and have in fact not honored their commitments that they said they cared about. Republicans in the 80s were the party of business, the educated elite, and emerging racism; Democrats were the party of labor, farming, and civil rights. if you want to go with all union members and farmers are racists and that’s why they have gone Republican, OK, sure, but part of this thread is about admitting when you’re wrong, and turns out Democrats have been wrong on a bunch of things too – which is why unions have been decimated and farmers look to Republicans now.
I kinda worry that the Platner-is-a-nazi or Platner-is-another-Fetterman thing may be a whole lot of partially informed cancel culture. And again, if my guy that was saying things I liked, esp pointing out issues with the Democratic Party, was suddenly attacked for being a Nazi and I had actually seen none of that and in fact he seemed pretty anti-Nazi, well I’d most likely assume that the Establishment was trying to put in their own person. So let him run, and see what his policies actually are, and all that.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Once again:
Just a reminder.
Who is in Washington, DC right now
Senate Republicans
Senate Democrats
House Democrats
Who IS NOT IN WASHINGTON, DC RIGHT NOW
HOUSE REPUBLICANS😠😠😠
rikyrah
@kindness:
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
rikyrah
@Ishiyama:
Maine has elected ‘ Concerned’ Susie Collins repeatedly against ACTUAL Democrats.
dc
@iKropoclast: Besides stating his opinion on the issue [Palestine/Israel)], did he do anything? Does he work with people to achieve his goals? Does he know how to do that? Has he ever knocked on doors to get support for candidates that would forward his beliefs on this issue? Has he joined organizations working to advance Palestinian rights and worked in those organizations? He’s running for senate. The bar is high.
jonas
Because 9/11 turned all military (especially Special Forces guys) and first responders into superheroes. So now they’re the only people with the integrity to run for public office, it seems.
To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with military service or having been a firefighter or whatever, but the fetishization of those professions in the context of political life, to the exclusion of things like teaching, community organizing, or other careers has not been good for our political culture, imho.
iKropoclast
@dc: I don’t know in full detail, the most I can say for sure he did was to show up to protest. Where? With whom? Don’t know. Wasn’t interested enough to get that deep, but I know enough to know that the current outlines of his beliefs have held for years, long before the tattoo.
dc
@Betty: You are right. Non-Mainers arguing passionately about this are really arguing about something else. Not that what they’re arguing about isn’t important. It is! But I think keeping in mind what’s really at issue and what’s not, is also important.
Baud
trollhattan
This might could leak into the noggins of some of those low-information voters now in Republican pockets.
ArchTeryx
And not a word here about TLF (That Lying Felon) illegally suspending SNAP benefits for the entire month of November to try and literally starve the Democrats out, and then erasing the USDA page explaining SNAP benefits would be continued to be funded as an emergency during shutdowns?
surfk9
@trollhattan: It might have something to do with the fact that the yes side has millions in booked ad buys while the No side has just thousands. Also a new poll out has the yes vote at 62% of likely voters according to the SFGate.com website.
iKropoclast
I’m more inclined to believe this than that the boats we’re attacking were drug smugglers.
chemiclord
@TXG1112:
Were you aware that there is something like 8 or 9 candidates?
But people got hooked by the “vibes,” (again) and now they’re stuck, I guess.
Suzanne
@jonas:
Agree.
Actually, I go even further than that. I have a few high school classmates who joined the military basically because they were otherwise unemployable but really liked guns and wanted that to be their job. Others, of course, had much better reasons. But I don’t think of military service as an automatically honorable thing. And I come from a family with six generations of military service.
ExPatExDem
Even though it’s not Platner’s fault that other erstwhile progressives sold out about 30-seconds after being sworn in, it’s fair for voters to ask why they should believe that he won’t.
I do agree with you though that the objections to Platner mostly come from him being an obstacle to another 1,000 year old political lifer running for the Dem nomination.
Citizen Alan
@Suzanne:
Because if you’re a young person who wants to get into politics and write laws, it would seem wise to get a degree that actually teaches you what laws are, how they work, what they look like on the written page, and what the constitutional implications of any given law might be.
A law degree, IMO, is probably the best graduate program to get into if you have political aspirations, even if it’s to be the the anonymous guy who writes policy for some elected official.
The lawyers who are successful politicians know how to tone that down when taking to non-lawyers. Both Clintons and both Obamas could do it with ease. When I was in private practice, I literally had two accents: the “professional, smart person” voice and vocabulary I used when talking to judges and fellow attorneys and the “Matlock-esque, no words of more than 3 syllables” that I used with clients, neighbors, and family members.
NaijaGal
Already voted yes on 50. Got an email from Gavin Newsom today (excerpt below):
I'm optimistic about prop50 passing.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Exactly this.
I just wanted to see it again.
And the fact that he hid his writings, etc when he started his run does not speak well of him.
First instinct: hide who I am.
Not: I know I did and said horrid things; i need to explain to people that I am not that man anymore.
Hildebrand
@Socolofi: I’m sorry, why are we propping this guy up? He’s got two major problems:
One, it’s clear he is a bigot, definitely a misogynist, and seems to have a pretty deep reserve of homophobia, as well. Hardly seems that this is the kind of candidate we really want to run.
Two, just on a tactical level, he has already failed – he knew this stuff was out there and didn’t address it or get out in front of it. He just let it happen. We don’t need someone like that trying to go toe to toe with Collins, who clearly knows how to win in Maine in a general election.
Omnes Omnibus
@ExPatExDem: Horseshit.
Paul W.
@WaterGirl: I want to cheer on veteran politicians, especially if they have a great legislative/executive history, but I do not have it in me to support another person who is at a heightened risk of dyeing in office.
My own father turned 74 this year, and the energy levels and health complications are nothing short of exponential. 4 years did incredible damage to his mobility, energy, and time (luckily he is all there mentally) and he has also gone into the RFK-o-sphere so judgement is…. questioned now.
I am not a Maine voter, so not my call, but as a hefty donor, volunteer, and organizer in the Dem party I can’t get behind her when her term ends 7+ years from now and no matter how great she is she won’t be able to be there for what we need to do to undo all of this damage.
My 2cents, if another candidate can show up and offer what Platner is selling in terms of strategic change, junking the status quo, and liberal values then they would have my support. Right now I pick the guy who watched Andor and supports its message/theory of change (hint, it is super anti-fash).
Geminid
@arrieve: I don’t see the political ads, but I have worried about the New Jersey governor race all along. That’s because Phil Murphy beat Ciattarelli by only 4 points in 2021, and the state trended Republican in the last Presidential cycle even though Harris won it last year.
Anyway, an Asbury Park newspsper carried a USA Today article about the race by Lori Comstock in which she cited five of the “most reliable” recent polls:
Emerson College: dead heat, 43-43%.
Rutgers-Eagleton: Sherrill up by 5, 50-45%.
Farleigh Dickinson: Sherrill up by 7, 52-45%.
Beacon Research/Shaw: Sherrill up by 5, 50-45%.
Quinnipiac: Sherrill up by 6, 50-44%.
I will still be anxious about this election until it’s over.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Betty:
@dc:
The problem is, people like Bernie Sanders have made it my non-Maine-residential problem, and they have made it such in such a fashion that strongly suggests that things are much further down slippery slopes than people want to admit. As a friend put it to me earlier today, No Nazis is not that high of a bar to clear. I’d go further and say that it’s the receiving end of the kind of graduated slopes used on sidewalks as accessibility ramps. When this news broke last week, the immediate and overwhelming reaction should have been “Ah, fuck that guy with a rusty rake forever. Next.” Instead, Bernie Sanders, Ro Khanna, Chris Murphy, Ken Martin, and far too many of their anonymous followers have tripped over that tiny little graduated lip to back that guy. That’s a Problem, especially if you’re a minority, especially if you have paid even a TikTok clip’s worth of attention to history.
ExPatExDem
I would take it a step further still and say that there is a certain percentage who have a streak of sociopathy and join the military as a socially acceptable outlet for harming other people. Especially the combat arms-heavy branches like the Army and Marines. I think the same is true for cops. Probably morse so for cops due to the lower bar for entry.
ArchTeryx
@Hildebrand: Collins, sadly, is a master at the “Aw shucks” type of culture that Maine is (in)famous for, and more importantly, her name goes back at least five generations in Maine. The Collins lumber business predates the Civil War. That ALONE makes her like David fighting Goliath. She may be a lightweight nothing in a largely blue state, but they LOVE her in Maine because she has the right background and says all the right things.
People keep going back to Candidate Schutzstaffel because he also can claim some of that history as an oysterman. Unfortunately, he seems to be afflicted heavily with Redneck American Disease (i.e. bigotry up the wazoo) and thus he’s nothing but a cryptofascist running on the D line. Like that’s never happened before.
Suzanne
@Citizen Alan: Disagree. Law should be one path of many to public life. There’s enough people there who know how to write laws, and now they need much more breadth and content knowledge. More engineers and more educators and more social workers. More bartenders and nurses and waitstaff.
I also don’t think our candidates are as good at turning off lawyer talk as they should be. It sounds inherently careful. Sometimes too careful.
Harrison Wesley
@TONYG: Fetterman also had actual political experience.
Harrison Wesley
DELETE
ExPatExDem
@Omnes Omnibus: Ok, explain why.
trollhattan
@ArchTeryx:
Helpful insights on family Collins. I’m reminded of Alaska’s Murkowskis, who have occupied the same senate seat continuously since 1981. That’s a lot of Murkowski.
Gin & Tonic
Since it’s an open thread … even if you are not into gymnastics, take a few minutes to find a video of US men’s gymnast Donnell Whittenburg winning the World Championships on still rings. This dude is fucking amazing. [Starts at about 6:30 in this vid]
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
I’d rather elect somebody with a degree in government, than law. Or if law, con law. (NB Republicans interpret that as the other meaning of “con.”)
tam1MI
Working class man of the people, that Graham.
Barbara
@Jackie: Maine has the oldest median age of any state or territory — seven years older than the national median (45 versus 38, excluding decimal points). Old people skew female. Maybe they are not the best voting populace for experimenting with a strategy that implicitly (at least) devalues their worth and wisdom by, essentially, holding that the young guy is always better than the old woman (which neatly sidesteps the issue of Bernie Sanders’ age — totally different apparently because he’s sui generis).
And no, Bupalos et al., I am not accusing you of being sexist or misogynist I am simply pointing out that the view from the old ladies’ room about the inherent appeal of a young whippersnapper might be a lot more skeptical. Why you don’t get this just amazes me.
bjacques
@Baud: that comedian is Andy Huggins! He used to be with the Texas Outlaw Comics, from Houston. They were a talented bunch, and not just Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison!
ArchTeryx
@trollhattan: It’s a much bigger deal in Maine to have family going back generations that’s lived in the state. They hate outsiders with a passion that the South can only be jealous of.
My mother once considered moving to Maine as a nice retirement state. She asked a resident how many years it’d take to be accepted as one of the locals. The resident actually laughed and said, “Dear, try three generations!”
Thus endeth the retirement in Maine. Who wants to go where they are not wanted? That is Collins’ secret sauce, and why she keeps winning.
ArchTeryx
@bjacques: Andy Huggins is made of awesome. One of the best masters of black comedy out there in the standup world.
Citizen Alan
@lowtechcyclist: I will never forgive Bernie and his acolytes for making sure the 2016 DNC was loaded with snot-nosed brats who booed every mention of Hillary Clinton’s name, to the point that Sarah Silverman had to lecture them on live TV for being “ridiculous.”
Barbara
@Suzanne: The reason why lawyers make good politicians is because their work and experience require them to be good advocates as well as to resolve and manage disparate and conflicting views, and the ability to think on their feet and evaluate arguments and data. Other professions can have these attributes — Robert Rubin was the managing partner of Goldman Sachs and more or less knew how to manage prima donnas to get what he wanted and was invaluable in dealing with Newt Gingrich for Clinton.
CEOs tend to have a “top down” strategy that is frequently ineffective in dealing with interest group politics, and engineers tend to have black/white or yes/no thinking that makes them too rigid for negotiating compromise. These are generalities, anyone can make a good politician if they have the right skill set but there are reasons why lawyers tend to be above average at it.
Socolofi
@Hildebrand: I’m not saying we should prop him up, but I’m concerned about the quick tear him down.
It isn’t clear to me that he’s CURRENTLY a bigot / racist / misogynist / etc. Was he? Likely. But I remember when Cole was over at Red State too. There’s a lot of people who end up in dark places and are pretty horrible people and then something finally clicks, and they want to be better and do something better. That said it takes time and there’s a lot to clean up and atone for, and it can’t be done all at once. I did see his video where he addressed a bunch of the stuff. Maybe he was just acting and he really is horrible but realizes he needs to be seen as not horrible to get elected, maybe he’s genuine, I dunno.
As for not getting ahead of it and being a rookie… again, I’m of two minds here, which is why I really want to see this play out. Mills is clearly the more experienced candidate, and has an army of consultants to make sure there aren’t any huge gaffes or disqualifying statements, etc. She’s also experienced and knows Maine, and apparently is well liked. So cool. That said, AFAIK every six years the Democrats find some other well liked, experienced, well funded candidate with an army of consultants and they’re just routinely crushed.
Certainly two decades ago and older, politicians of any party had to be civil, have an impeccable background, had to behave a certain way, etc. And there have always been consultants to make sure any rough edges were smoothed over. I don’t think that’s nearly as true anymore… you can point to Trump as the biggest example, but there are lots of others. So in a world where a lot of voters are in, “Vote the career politicians OUT!” I think it’s worth seeing if someone like Platner may be able to slay the dragon, vs yet another knight in shining armor. Again, that’s why we have primaries.
trollhattan
@ArchTeryx:
I can buy that, especially since Maine’s western history begins in what, the 16th century?
To put the Murkowskis in perspective, they’ve held the seat for 2/3 of Alaska’s statehood–44 years out of 66.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Even if Virginia Assembly Democrats pass a bill to put a constitutional redistricting amendment on the ballot, voters will have to pass it in two successive general elections. And Glenn Youngkin will veto this one.
So the earliest Democrats could possibly draw new maps is early 2028. That is, if they can pass an amendment to undo one that got almost 2 to 1 support in 2019 and 2020. In my opinion, this isn’t gonna happen.
Ed. I just hope Jay Jones makes it through. He is a bright, young politician with a promising future except– Jones’ texts really were bad. If he were a Rebublican there would have been at least one post here raking him over the coals for them; also, the lenient disposition of his speeding/reckless driving case.k
Barbara
@Geminid: They can sell it as a refinement by providing greater direction to whichever committee ends up redrawing the lines. The amendment that passed adopted a process that can be tanked by either party, and was tanked right out of the gate by the Republican party, which refused to play by the rules in good faith by continually insisting on appointing a disqualified person as their representative. A court ended up appointing a special master who drew lines without direction. It was better than nothing because at least the guy who ended up drawing the lines was neutral, but it would be even better if the process has more guardrails to prevent misshapen and distorted districts.
Suzanne
@Harrison Wesley: The other thing that keeps being overlooked with the Fetterman comparison is that he was seen as somewhat of a compromise candidate! This is a swing state with a lot of old rural white people! His strategy — which proved to be incredibly successful — was to go to rural counties and not win those counties outright, but to hold the margins close enough. He was a popular Lieutenant Governor to Tom Wolf.
As I have pointed out before….. there was a leftier candidate in the Dem Senate primary, Malcolm Kenyatta, who said, “Unlike [Fetterman], I am a progressive”. Kenyatta came in a distant third (PA probably is not ready for a young Black gay progressive man).
Two of my neighbors on my street dressed up as John Fetterman for Halloween in 2022. Both of them are older working-class white people (one’s a lady). Old-school Dem types, absolutely not young dudebros. There has been some attempt to change the contours of that race in retrospect around here.
Omnes Omnibus
@ExPatExDem: I think people have pretty clearly indicated why they think this guy is not ready for prime time. No need to reiterate.
Barbara
@trollhattan: History of living in Maine wouldn’t be such a big deal if Maine had population growth. At some point being “from” Virginia stopped mattering for statewide Virginia offices because large swaths of the state’s population are not “from” Virginia the way it’s meant (i.e., multiple generations) and are positively turned off by the idea that it matters for purposes of electoral office.
Belafon
Late to the party, but after Trump, anyone who brandishes themselves as an outsider should be chased back under the fridge.
Professor Bigfoot
@jonas:
I am fully in agreement with this, and “fetishization” is exactly the right word.
How many men dress daily in “Chris Kyle drag?”
Geminid
@Socolofi: I don’t think Janet Mills needs an army of consultants to tell her how to win in a state where she has won at least three statewide elections in a row. That’s one big difference between Mills and Sarah Gideon, who had only won her state Representative’s district.
Kathleen
@Kirklin: IOW “Vibe”
Melancholy Jaques
@Paul W.:
I’m sorry, not sorry, but who holds the majority in the Senate is really fucking important and I’m not sure any single senator can offer to do more than that.
Professor Bigfoot
@iKropoclast: ain’t that depressing in and of itself?
I agree, I’d believe the Venezuelans over the Americans right now, and that’s depressing.
(and enraging)
Harrison Wesley
@Suzanne: I only read up a bit on Fetterman’s background after his stroke. I found his time as mayor of Braddock quite interesting.
Suzanne
@Melancholy Jaques:
I voted for some crap-ass candidates, including Kyrsten Sinema, based solely on wanting Dems to hold the majority in the Senate.
I don’t live in Maine, and I have no idea which of the many candidates I’d support…. but I would have no problem voting for Mills on this basis.
Fuck, if it came to it (though I don’t think it will)…. I’d vote for Fetterman again to keep a Senate seat out of GOP hands. And I’m frothing with rage at the guy!
It was crazy seeing him in Costco yesterday.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I was of draft age during Vietnam and joined the USN because I didn’t want to have to shoot people or be shot myself. I ended up wearing a loaded .45 pistol a fair bit. Never had to pull it out of the holster, other to unload it and hand it to the fella relieving me. We never carried it with a round in the chamber, that made it much too easy to shoot someone. Worked in the shore patrol my last 2 months. Had to carry a pistol and nightstick. Like being a cop. Sort of. We normally had to qualify/re-qualify with whatever weapon we had to carry, from the back of the ship, shoot a full clip into the ocean as we sailed along at 18-20 knots. Difficult not to hit the water. I once rapid fired a full clip, 7 shots, as fast as possible. Officer in charge looked at me as if something was going on that he didn’t understand, as I rapid fired in a straight line of splashes about a foot apart. But he never said a word. Thankfully I never had to point a weapon at anyone, let alone shoot them. I haven’t missed the USN since the day I walked off a ship for the last time, decades ago. I am glad I did the USN rather than the USMC. Because I didn’t have to shoot at anyone.
Glory b
@Paul in KY: Nominee for what?
Suzanne
@Harrison Wesley: There seems to be some idea — mostly from those in blue states where progressives probably numerically matter — that Fetterman was a lefty darling. Not true, not as I observed the dynamic. It was much more like, “Here’s a dude who we think is good on some stuff, and it seems like he can appeal to enough of Pennsyltucky and the old-school blue-collar types that we could add this up to a win”. (Actually somewhat similar to “Scranton Joe” in this way.)
Dems in places where they routinely get beat are usually looking for someone who has that broad appeal.
Glory b
@Suzanne: What progressives (other than Summer Lee) were you referring to?
Professor Bigfoot
The explanation is simple.
This statement indicates that the arguments about his derogatory comments about non-white people, the way he tried to hide what he’s said in the past, the way he wore a Nazi tattoo for decades, indicated to others that he knew exactly what it was, then covered it up with a sticker to show his contrition—- that ALL of that is just a ruse to support a “1,000 year old lifer running for the Dem nomination.”
That is the most white male response I can imagine. You are perfectly willing to overlook all those things because he’s a young white man.
And will no doubt be offended that I say this, but well,
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
PJ
@Bupalos: You can find at least half a dozen people in most bars who have consistently exercised judgment as poorly in what they say and do throughout their lives as Platner, and have stories that are “relatable”, and whose backgrounds are much more working class than a guy from a wealthy family whose business is mostly supported by his mother, but it doesn’t mean that any of them should be what we want from Senators.
You can find people like him everywhere – I don’t get why anyone is so invested in this particular dumb guy with serious judgment issues who has never run for anything before.
Socolofi
@Geminid: I would assume Mills would have the right number of consultant types to help get the W, just as Collins has a bunch to help her get the Ws. Any reasonably well-funded campaign has them.
My point is both of them are going to rely heavily on, “here’s what’s worked for us in the past” and I don’t know if that works now.
Professor Bigfoot
@Kathleen: “Someone more like me. You know… a white guy.”
;^D
frosty
@Ruckus: Dude, that comment is unreadable. Paragraph breaks are your friend.
You spend a lot of time writing. If you want us to read what you write, USE THEM!
Suzanne
@Glory b: Some of the people named in this article. Or the members of the Pennsylvania Progressive Caucus. Or my lovely Rep, Jess Benham,
Bupalos
@Captain C: well if you’re in the “he’s really a secret Nazi, not a dopey drunk marine” camp then sure. Suffice to say I think his explanation is a lot more likely, and moreover that this kind of speculative assessment of a candidate’s past from signs like these are simply yesterday’s politics.
Bupalos
@PJ: He has a ton of talent for political communication. Similar to AOC or Jasmine crocket or Pete Buttigiege. Though all these speak to different audiences and all get judged to be “completely unelectable” by the folks that can’t hear their language.
we need to expand this group, not police it and restrict it.
Socolofi
@Suzanne: Having a lot of in-laws from that part of the state, as well as spending some years there myself, I can attest to that.
A lot of people (esp my wife) view Fetterman as a huge disappointment because he’s not on board with everything Dems are for – esp around Israel / Gaza and immigration (he with a formerly undocumented wife from Brazil), and palling around with other Republicans.
My own take:
– He’s legitimately about elevating the “working class” which in PA means poor white people and poor Black people. He’s not going to punch Black people down in the process, but neither is he going to do something that might seem to give poor Black people any extra advantage over poor white people.
– He’s super pro-legalization of weed ‘cuz poor white people AND poor black people like to smoke. As does he.
– He’s going to be anti-immigrant because of the perception that they compete with a lot of the same jobs as poor people – construction, etc.
– He’s going to be pretty anti-Muslim and thus pro-Israel no matter what they do because that kind of bigotry is A-OK in Western PA.
– He’s not going to be a big trans rights supporter. See above for types of bigotry that are OK in Western PA.
I’m not a fan of a lot of his views, clearly, but I do think he’s nailed the class struggle bit – and is someone who can speak to people struggling fairly well. I don’t know if he survives his next election (or even runs again), all things being equal.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Dopey, drunk marine isn’t exactly confidence inspiring. Especially since some of the shit was still happening as recently as last week.
PJ
@Socolofi: Platner comes from a well-to-do family. His campaign is organized by the guy who did Fetterman’s and Brandon Johnson’s, and he seems to have a number of well-connected consultants (David Hogg, etc.) and media people, which is how he got so much media attention after announcing in August. He’s raised over $3 million as of Oct. 1. Any shortcomings in his campaign don’t seem to come from the professional end, but from the candidate.
PJ
@Bupalos: So far, his political communication has been a disaster for his campaign.
Melancholy Jaques
@Suzanne:
I did the same and no regrets.
President Biden appointed 235 federal judges, the largest number for a single term since the Carter administration. One Supreme Court Justice, 45 to courts of appeals, 187 to district courts, and two to the Court of International Trade.
That would not have happened without Sinema and Manchin, may they both suffer migraines for the rest of their days now that they are gone.
Geminid
@Barbara: Yeah, I could see the flaw in the redistricting amendment, but I voted for it anyway. People wanted it and most Democratic Assembly members voted for it the first time, and I thought we ought to do what we said we would.
As it turned out, the special masters did draw a neutral General Assembly map as the law intended. I think Democrats will reap the benefits this year.
The Congressional map was a different story. There, the special masters were results-oriented. Virginia was a 55%D, 45% R state and their map reflected that with 4 Republican-majority districts, 6 Democrat-majority districts and one– the 2nd CD—about 50-50. To get to that result, they had to snake the 1st CD around Richmond to include enough Republican precincts, which was clearly not what the constitutional amendment intended.
I’ll cut the special masters some slack though, because Virginia is a VRA state and they needed to keep the 3rd and 4th CDs majority Black. Also, they did not have much time because it took so long for the redistricting commission to admit they were deadlocked.
Anyway, I’ll buy those special masters a beer anytime because they moved Greene County from the 5th CD to 7th. One year, I had Bob “Fucking” Good for my Rep, and the next year I had Abigail Spanberger. That sure was a nice change!
Steve in the ATL
@Paul in KY: for the record, the chihuahua’s name is “Harley Quinn”!
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Alaska has a population of less than 3/4 million.
Los Angeles County has a population of over 9 3/4 million.
Name recognition alone likely would keep Murkowski in office.
cain
Been hangin with the gen alpha/gen zs again haven’t you?
Bupalos
@PJ: I think he’ll either the harness the “of course they want to politically assassinate me” thing ala Bernie or he’ll continue to fade in this cycle. But setbacks and failures in a particular campaign is not necessarily a full measure of political communication talent. He definitely was doing a good job of delivering the anti-oligarchy message, and in my estimation, that’s the only lane that holds promise for us holding and expanding our coalition in the next decades. I think this episode of “find the secret nazi’s” is going to be a case of self-harm.
Suzanne
@Socolofi: Mostly agree with you. But he made a statement about how he thinks Sarah McBride should go to the bathroom wherever she wants, so he’s not a complete blank slate on trans issues.
Honestly, coming from AZ….. he reminds me of Sinema. Someone who seemed to be able to thread a needle in a place where that matters. Some combination of policy positions, name recognition, “look and feel”, and just that undefinable quality that makes some people seem more likeable and relatable. I will note that Sinema, in her Senate primary, also had a genuinely progressive challenger who went absolutely nowhere.
Losing sucks, and I don’t blame people for deciding to get behind a consensus candidate. And yes, some of that consensus is vibes-based. Every election we have ever voted in, starting back with Student Body President, has been a popularity contest. It shouldn’t matter, but it does.
Socolofi
@PJ: I wouldn’t put David Hogg in the “experienced” consultant pool, more someone who can raise money.
It’s a fair point that he has enough $$ and people on board now that they shouldn’t be playing defense when stuff from his past comes out. That said, as I write it, I’m not sure if I would have played it differently – e.g. he deleted stuff, and when it bubbled up, came out and said it wasn’t him, etc. I don’t know if it would make sense otherwise lead with, “I used to be an asshole, but I’ve disavowed that, and now I’d like to be your Senator.” Get people on your side first.
Captain C
@Bupalos: His comments have indicated he was cool with it, and only covered it up with a sticker (which was also kind of white supremacist-adjacent, at minimum) when it began to threaten to derail his campaign. Having the Auschwitz unit’s insignia tattooed on yourself for two decades and knowing what it is for at least a good chunk of the time (as per his own comments) should disqualify one from running for Senate. At minimum it shows an appalling lack of judgement and probaby indicates some retrograde views (and the latter is reinforced by his documented comments on rape and LGBTQ+ folks).
Sounds like you’re just fine with sporting the Totenkopf from the unit that ran Auschwitz; whether because it’s ‘edgy’ or you’re simpatico, only you know.
Bupalos
He was actually pretty strident on trans rights in the campaign. He was giving speeches like in this campaign video and was one of the more forward dems on it. At least…before the stroke. I think the turn towards identity essentialism in a lot of the polarized electorate wants to see Fetterman’s current issues as determined by immutable character.
Harrison Wesley
@Omnes Omnibus: Dopey,drunk Marine? I think SecDef has found a new commander for the Corps!
Bupalos
@Captain C: I think this is absolutely ridiculous and you’re getting into McCarthy territory with this “maybe anyone who denies he’s a secret nazi is really a secret nazi too!”
Shakti
I think Platner was pushed as a candidate to ratfuck voter turnout among Democrats in Maine (and lagniappe, nationally) in a race that has marked local interest — it doesn’t matter if he’s currently a neo Nazi or not. Platner also resets the range of what people feel they can demand of Democrats. “At least Corporate TM is not SS Face Tattoo” saith pundits. “How dare you impugn Post Malone!” “Post Malone didn’t get Nazi tattoos on his face! (endless argument ensues)”
We’ll see the turnout numbers for that primary soon enough.
Why Democrats and those caucusing with Democrats want to decrease voter turnout is beyond me and almost secondary at this point.
Captain C
@Bupalos: Which is not a denial on your part (not that anyone actually called you a ‘secret Nazi’, just pointed out that you are a little too comfortable with some of the worst Nazi symbolism).
Bupalos
@Captain C: You caught me pal. I really read all of Tim Snyder and Charles Taylor because I get a secret thrill from Nazi imagery. Good sleuthing!!!
Melancholy Jaques
@Bupalos:
So is it the message or the messenger that you find attractive? If the former, we can find other people. We have the technology.
ExPatExDem
@Professor Bigfoot: My rejoinder would be that being elderly yourself, you’re apt to ignore the obvious problem of Dem party gerontocracy, from Biden’s debate faceplant, to Feinstein going full blown dementia, to Gerry Connolly dying five months after we were assured that he was a “young 74”.
But definitely go with the 77 year old lady with a lifetime in politics. She’ll make a sharp contrast to the 72 year old lady with a lifetime in politics. (eyeroll)
iKropoclast
I mean, in a purely physical sense…
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: That’s precious.
cain
man, this Platner discussion is simply boring. Y’alls worked up about a candidate that only Maine voters can pick. It’s gonna be up to them to decide if he’s a nazi. The rest of us will just have to put up with whatever the the hell they decide.
In the meanwhile, let’s try to figure out how we can raise money to help starving people. That seems like a better use of our time than some election that’s 7 months away.
Socolofi
@Bupalos: and @Suzanne – fair points both, perhaps I’ve been cherry picking too much on where he’s been w/ trans rights. Thanks!
Captain C
@Bupalos: Maybe it’s your fap material. I wouldn’t have thought so, but…
Bupalos
@Melancholy Jaques: I think we need a spectrum of folks able to deliver this message, that speak the language of the different segments of the electorate we’ll try to knit together into anti-oligarchic pro-freedom solidarity. “I made a mistake and now people call me a racist and cancel me and won’t accept my apology or my attempt to show growth” is actually a really key kind of demographic here for us. It’s a slice of who Trump took away.
The whole thing could be an asset for us, and I suspect in Maine where Platner can practically go one-on-one with half the constituents, he may end up able to leverage it. But it’s also likely this is going to shape up as confirmation for folks that there’s not a place here for them. Pure meaningless litmus-test self-harm.
iKropoclast
@cain: If Platner gets the nomination, the seemingly inevitable Balloon Juice fundraising plea will be hilarious.
Bupalos
@Captain C: And I’m surprised to have to consider that you’re an anti-intellectual thought-policeman. But we’re all learning really important things about each other here online in this totally real space, aren’t we?
Omnes Omnibus
@iKropoclast: I have been limiting my donations to WI. We still need help here and I know a lot more about the candidates and locations.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Would you draw a line on Nazi imagery? If so, where would you draw it? Or doesn’t it matter in your view as long as the person is anti-oligarch?
iKropoclast
@Bupalos: As real as anything else. Not a lot of people in this world will hear out my opinions, but this place is nice for having some people who will.
There are real humans behind these nyms, with real lives full of real experiences.
No use denying it was a Nazi tattoo and it sure seems like he knew for at least some portion of wearing it. I actually do think many people might be willing to look past that, but that would require Platner to address the issue thoroughly and with extreme candor.
I don’t give two shits about the man’s electoral success, but it seems like you do. This might be something to point out where his supporters might notice and start talking about it, or to write the campaign about directly.
Two lines. Four corners. One intersection.
Entirely reasonable. Likewise, I have nothing to give but time and you can be damn sure I’m not leaving the state to volunteer for political campaigns.
But you know the primary winner will get a fundraising post for such a close election. I’ll have to find a good source for kettle corn because I’m very picky about popcorn.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Geminid:
Their last paragraph is something to read…lol! Still supporting Platner after all of this is a sign of someone who makes bad choices in life.
Platner needs to go, way too much baggage of the wrong type for me to believe anything he now says. Bernie can go with him. Fuck him and his support for Trump’s “protecting the border”.
Purity progressives are going to wreck this shit again.
Omnes Omnibus
@iKropoclast: That’s more of a how than a where.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: His explanation is it was not Nazi imagery to him as a kid, just a mean looking skull thing. I think that’s probably true, but what matters is that HE’S NOT CURRENTLY PROMOTING NAZI IMAGERY. People are just trying to gotcha/ identity essentialize the thing to chase him out of a campaign.
So the answer is if someone actually uses or likes nazi imagery or tires to communicate with it ala Stephen Miller and Trump, then that’s real. If you fell on a waffle iron and now have a scar that looks like a swastika and people are like “mmm hmmmm white guy gunna white!” then I’m going to suggest that’s ridiculous. Even if people are like “YOU MUST HAVE NOTICED!!!”
NaijaGal
Maine Senate Democratic Party candidates:
Natasha Alcala
David Costello
David Evans
Tucker Favreau
Andrea LaFlamme
Janet T. Mills
Graham Platner
Daira Rodriguez
Jordan Wood
Maine is 51% female. May the best of the 9 candidates win.
iKropoclast
@Omnes Omnibus: No way was I just being a wise-ass. That would be very unlike me.
Omnes Omnibus
@iKropoclast: YOU?! No!!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Getting a tattoo and falling on waffle iron (?!) are very different things as far as choice goes.
I do find it interesting that you cannot seem to see how people could look at Platner’s series of questionable decisions and not question his judgment. We all want someone who can win but we also what someone who will make good decisions if they do win.
Barbara
@Bupalos: I am on record that we absolutely need to show grace so that people are given space to change and credit for changing. So many views are adopted as a response to parental or peer influence and don’t necessarily reflect actual feelings, rather allegiances that can be broken through insight and experience.
The problem I have with the “instant credit” approach for someone running for office is that asking for a person’s vote is asking them to trust your judgment and your priorities. In the case of the kinds of statements that Platner made not that long ago, you are asking certain voters in particular — marginalized groups — to take a chance that he didn’t really mean what he said or that he has unequivocally changed and will protect their interests.
iKropoclast
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m actually a sucker for a narrative with some good lessons learned, personal growth, broadening of horizons…
The US Senate is not where you go to “find yourself.”
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: I probably would have said yes to a golden retriever with a normal dog name
iKropoclast
@Steve in the ATL: Incidentally, the given name is very evocative of the need for a support animal. At least this person didn’t try to bring in a pair of hyenas.
Professor Bigfoot
@ExPatExDem: Better that than a fucking Nazi.
But then, I expect that from a white man.
ETA perhaps I’m being harsh. But seeing as how white men and only white men have never had their rights questioned or abrogated on this continent, this insistence on instant forgiveness for what are obviously questionable choices.
I come back to this: when a white man runs as a Democrat promising to “take the party back,” see that white man wore a Nazi tattoo for decades… only another white man would find him attractive.
Sad. But bog-fucking-standard.
iKropoclast
@ExPatExDem: Tired: get rid of all the old people
Wired: many older people still have a lot to offer and should be judged as individuals, like any other group
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne: So, just another Man of the People from a famous/influential/wealthy family with his Working Stiff Street Cred springing fully-formed like Athena from the head of Zeus. Gotcha.
Suzanne
@iKropoclast:
Yeah, word. I can accept a lot. In fact, I think we are going to have to get comfortable with a lot more stuff in candidates’ pasts. Especially now that everyone has a cell phone camera and more “youthful antics” are recorded, everyone’s said intemperate shit on social media, young people are much more open about going to therapy, etc. Whatever. I can accept a lot. I can’t accept wearing a Nazi tattoo for twenty years, up until twenty minutes ago. That’s…. yep, there’s my red-ass line. There it is.
Graham Platner is not the only working-class white guy out there. I bet I can find another talented one. Maybe a few! We can broaden our appeal without losing what we stand for. I firmly believe this.
Omnes Omnibus
@iKropoclast: But a pair of hyenas named Castor and Pollux?
Suzanne
@Miss Bianca: To be fair, lots of architects don’t make much money and die penniless. LOL. The social status has always been higher than the pay, by a lot.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: I am confused by people who are confused by people choosing “having a Nazi tattoo for nearly two decades” as a point of concern.
Miss Bianca
@Barbara:
Really? Does it *really* amaze you? Speaking as an old broad rapidly getting older, it doesn’t amaze me. Sadden and enrage me, maybe, but I’m long past amazement when it comes to “get rid of all these tired old WOMEN in office” shit.
And I’m starting to wonder if competence in government is now just being coded “female”, period, and that’s why old *competent* politicians have to go. (Like, say, Joe Biden).
Captain C
@Omnes Omnibus:
C’mon, who among us hasn’t fallen on a Croatian tattoo parlor and gotten a big chest tattoo of the SS-Totenkopf and then not questioned it for a couple decades*?
(*There’s evidence that he’s known what it is for some time.)
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: I was not following Platner closely. How this unfolded for me:
The first thing I heard about his Reddit postings was that he had written that Ted Nugent “should eat a dick”. And I thought, “Oh, that’s awesome. Up three points in my estimation.” The second thing I heard was his musing that “Black people don’t tip”, and I thought, “What?! Oh, that’s fucken bad. What the fuck?!” Then the third thing I heard was the Nazi tattoo, and I was like, “OH HELL NO. Hard stop. Get the fuck out. Next.”
One can change one’s mind when presented with new evidence! It’s okay! I can even agree that Platner shows some appeal to a demographic that we should probably try to persuade, while thinking that he is personally far too flawed at this point….. and look for another candidate with his strengths.
iKropoclast
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ll admit to having a hard time squaring the tattoo with his rhetoric. It’s curious to me, but not cause for consideration as a Senate candidate.
Sorry, by the way, I need help with the Castor and Pollux remark.
Hard agree, and we’ll have to address it sooner rather than later in the context of Trump’s habitual norm breaking and general lack of consideration.
Like, yes, not every norm of behavior built up over time serves us well today. But we have to be selective about what we keep and what we don’t. Treating others with respect is a good norm and we should keep it.
The way things are now, Trump can get more grace as an adjudicated rapist that a pornographer with a ribald, consensual sex life would not get, no matter how good their policy ideas. This process of accepting breaking norms is ass-backwards in its priorities, by my estimation.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I’d bet there are a lot of areas in this country that are probably not ready for a young Black gay progressive man. And one can likely say that about any medium sized or bigger area of this country. Sure there are likely areas where that is not a limiting factor but I’d bet they are fewer than one might think.
I am an old fart and had a gay sibling older than I am. It was not easy anywhere a long time ago and in many areas it still is not easy. But I met a lot of friends of this individual and none of them scared me or accosted me or assaulted or treated me in any way badly. Nor I them. Because it’s none of my business who you like or their gender.
ExPatExDem
@iKropoclast:
Wired: We need to turn out the youth vote to get a better result.
Tired: Let’s run 80-year old State Comptroller Atkins for Senate, because it’s his turn after 40 years.
Omnes Omnibus
@iKropoclast: Steve in the WTF would be more accepting of the pair of hyenas if their owner showed sign of a classical education imo.
Geminid
@Odie Hugh Manatee: I don’t think Platner is a secret Nazi. I do think he has not been honest about that tatoo. He has said he got a skull and crossbones tatoo, but that is not a skull and crossbones it’s the Totenkopf symbol.
Platner may have mistaken it for a skull and crossbones when he got it, but he must have found out long before ten days ago when he said he did. An acquaintance said he described it to her as a Totenkopf ten years ago and anyway, he’s a military history buff, it’s on his dam’ chest and I do not believe he was so incurious as to never discover what it in fact was.
So I mark Platner down in the area of honesty, and that speaks to character.
And Platner’s trying to have it both ways. He says he’s sorry he did and said these things out of one side of his mouth, and out of the other he cries victim, that the controversies he’s responsible for are actually the fault of DC politicians.
But Platner is a paragon of honesty compared to the supporters I’ve see on social media. I’m talking journalists and political professionals here. They are really showing their hypocrisy, cynicism and unscrupulous characters. And it’s hard not to hold that against the candidate they are promoting.
Ruckus
@frosty:
I’ll write what I want. In a format that I want.
You don’t want to read it – fine.
I don’t give a damn.
ExPatExDem
@Professor Bigfoot: When the dull septuagenarian loses, I will be here to say I told you so.
iKropoclast
@ExPatExDem: Going after the youth vote doesn’t mean supporting someone who figured out where their ass ends and their elbow starts only just last week. Old people were young once, too, and many are sensible enough to know we need a stable and sustainable economic and political situation for younger folk. I’d even wager that some older folk are more engaged and attuned to the needs of young people broadly than some young people.
Mills is not the nominee, neither is Platner. No one is yet. I can accept whatever Maine voters choose. What I can’t accept is this notion that Mills’s age makes her per se a bad choice. That’s bigotry, definitionally.
The “Platner doesn’t merit consideration” argument is much stronger, still not strong enough that I wouldn’t defer to Maine Democrats if they chose him. But there’s at least meat on the bones of that argument.
iKropoclast
@Omnes Omnibus: Bourgeois classism…
Professor Bigfoot
@ExPatExDem: Please do.
It will also remind me of just what you are.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Geminid:
I agree with you, he knew what it was and he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth. It really doesn’t matter where he is politically, he’s not suitable for a roll of the dice in such a position in our government.
Let him run for city council, mayor or the like. He’s a wild card that I wouldn’t want to play. It’s hard to believe that there isn’t a better candidate than him in Maine. If that’s his supporters position then Maine is full of fucked up Democrats…lol!
ExPatExDem
@Professor Bigfoot: It’s not too late to break your addiction to the losing strategies that failed completely in 2024.
iKropoclast
That’s…what you’re doing to the letter
“The candidate is too old” didn’t land in a single election with voters. Not against Biden or Trump. It only landed with with panicky, entitled donors. Also, and this can be discounted as just my personal experience, but a lot of non-voters were on that train too. Dumping Biden didn’t bring them on board.
Professor Bigfoot
@Miss Bianca: Mediocre white men have to mediocre.
Once we accept that 400 years of white male supremacy have made too many of them dumber than a sack of wet mice, entitled, demanding, and convinced of their own innate superiority— it’s easy to brush them off.
Which demographic preferred a 34 count felon to a former prosecutor, former CA AG, former US Senator and sitting Vice President nearly two to one?
Interesting Name Goes Here
It’s 2025, and somehow some people, particularly here, find well-established symbols of racial hatred and genocide as…minor quibbles to overlook.
I’d say that some of you all need Jesus, but in this case I think y’all would catch the whip instead of the Word if He ever met you.
Pie me if you want. To quote Morty, I’ve seen what makes you cheer.
iKropoclast
@Interesting Name Goes Here: “Some people” is doing some pretty damn heavy lifting when “just Bupalos” would get the job done nicely.
Professor Bigfoot
@ExPatExDem: it’s far too late to break your addiction to white male supremacy, so… please, carry on.
Barbara
@Miss Bianca: Okay, maybe it doesn’t. But it seems like they should at least get it a little when it is pointed out to them. Like how do you endlessly slobber over Bernie Sanders who is fucking 90 years old or close to it and yet find any 70 year old woman too old, no matter how brave and smart she is?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@iKropoclast:
Yeah…lol! Bupalos was also one of the louder Tonya Harding Democrats here in their kneecapping of Biden. It seems that they like to make poor choices when it comes to politics.
Not surprising they are on board with Platner, not one bit.
wenchacha
@Kelly: Wow! ( My husband is a retired electrician. This would fascinate him and he would tell me about it for hours!)
It’s our 46th anniversary. 😉
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: [sigh] you get me!
PJ
@iKropoclast: You left out CurrentRatfucker
iKropoclast
@PJ: Mmm, I think Bupalos comes from an authentic place. I just don’t find I agree with him/her often.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: I can easily see how you question his judgement. I think he showed poor judgement. Actually I personally think everyone who gets any tatoo is showing poor judgement.
I just think the model of “we find the most respectable people with the best judgement and trust them to make decisions for us” is simply yesterday’s politics. As I’ve said, I support candidates I think move is into a better position in the new political era, that move us down the only avenue I can see for a positive realignment for the left.
I think many folks here don’t really think things have changed politically as much as I do, and I think we’re early in this tectonic shift. Oppositional anti-oligarchy up to and including a little light conspiracism is the order of the day. I’d overlook a lot in a candidate to get there.
different-church-lady
I ain’t read all this thread, but goddamn it looks like people are making serious arguments for “We need candidates that are just as shitty as MAGA if we’re gonna get anywhere.”
PJ
@iKropoclast: I was talking about another commenter.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: that isn’t really the argument. Though I suppose that if you squint just right it might be fair to say it’s that we need candidates that can generate and ride a movement, rather than a traditional “trustworthy representative.” That is sort of Trump-related.
Paul in KY
@Glory b: POTUS
Paul in KY
@Socolofi: Sen. Fetterman caucuses with us. So he’s OK (compared to any GQPer).
Think he needs to take care of his health and maybe resign seat if that’s what it takes for him to get better.
Paul in KY
@Steve in the ATL: That’s a better name than ‘Fluffy’. I’ll give them that.
Paul in KY
@ExPatExDem: I don’t care if a 102 year old beats her.
Paul in KY
@Bupalos: He found out years ago that it was an image that was reproduced on various SS uniforms. Right at that point, he should have got it removed or covered over. At that point.
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: I do agree that we’ll have to be cooler with prospective candidates having done some dumbass things (that were caught on camera) in their youth.
I have certain things from my past that Thank God were not captured on film.
Paul in KY
@Captain C: I hear Croatia has some of the best Tattooenkopf parlors in Europe. I wonder why that is…
Paul in KY
@Ruckus: Good use of paragraphs! Please keep it up.
Paul in KY
@wenchacha: Happy 46th!! Hope y’all have many more together :-)
Kayla Rudbek
@Suzanne: yeah, as a IP lawyer I would prefer to have scientists, engineers, and medical professionals also going into politics (as long as they aren’t right wing nut jobs, which is an occupational hazard for the engineers and medical professionals)
Geminid
@Kayla Rudbek: I can think of a couple Democratic House members with enginineering degrees. Sean Casten (IL) holds an undergraduate degree in a an engineering field as well a Masters from Dartmouth University, and Janelle Bynum (OR) has a degree in Electrical Engineering from Florida A&M University.
Kayla Rudbek
@Geminid: good, and we needed some more people who actually understand science and technology to make laws (too many lawyers went to law school because they couldn’t handle the science classes to go into medicine and have that prestige, and it really shows)
Bupalos
@Paul in KY: Sure. He should have. And it really doesn’t matter that he didn’t and all it really says is that he’s less sensitive to that kind of thing than your average current online dem.
Less sensitive than your average current online dem is exactly one of the avenues that we need to cover if we’re going to create an anti-oligarchy movement that goes beyond the current (losing) coalition. We need people on different street corners. We need to stop the morality policing which frankly is just punching ourselves in the dick. The dude isn’t a Nazi, and everyone here who has looked into it knows this. But we’re willing to put on this self-harm filter as a mode of expressive politics. It’s time to shelve the expressive politics.