John Huntsman ran his mouth on Morning Joe a few weeks ago:
Panelist John Heilemann, in hopes of clarifying, asked point blank: “You basically called for a third party, right?”
“I think that’s the healthy thing,” Huntsman replied.
After that, he was disinvited from a Republican fundraiser in Florida, because (duh) you can’t raise money using a guy who’s threatening to leave the party. Showing his centrist seriousness, Huntsman then said “this is what they do in China on party matters if you talk off script” in an interview at the 92nd Street Y with journalist Jeff Greenfield. After that blows up, he bitches about his remarks being taken out of context.
Is there a bigger serial pants-pooper than Huntsman, in either party? This guy could fuck up a ham sandwich.
Baud
So as the former ambassador to China, Huntsman believes that when you talk off script in China, they disinvite you to a fundraiser?
Linda Featheringill
Maybe Huntsman isn’t as smart as I thought he was. He actually thought that the Republican party would welcome a real debate? Really?
On the other hand, a third party with Huntsman as the candidate . . . .
Punchy
Huntz wants more parties? I didnt think Mormons even drank alcohol. Maybe he should hang with the Secret Serviced.
patrick II
Huntsman really did think he was a Democrat and could wank the party leadership without consequence. Wrong party, Jon — Nelson, Manchin,Bayh, etc. are democrats.
Schlemizel
@patrick II:
EGGS-ACT-LEE
This is perhaps the only case where “Its OK if you are a Democrat” applies
MattF
Huntsman wishes he lived in a different world. I can’t blame him for that– but I don’t feel much sympathy for him either.
kwAwk
I’m not so sure a third party would be a bad thing. Republicans don’t want moderates in their party and a third party would allow the Democrats to argue issues from the left.
GregB
Speaking of centrist wankers. The very serious deficit scold David Walker just got a warm and soft reach-around from Chuck Todd.
Americans elect, third party, America’s broken, save us deficit fighting daddy!
Also, why do John Heilman’s lips always look like he’s just finished eating red pistachios whenever I see him on tv?
Professor
I think a higher up body (that must be obeyed) DID command Huntsman to support Romney for the Republican Presidential nomination.
Soonergrunt
Joe Lieberman
amk
You still ain’t getting back your china job, jon, you pos.
That this guy was some libruls’ dahling speaks volumes about their political acumen.
Villago Delenda Est
@Linda Featheringill:
He’s obviously not that smart if he actually believes this.
He should just take his trust fund money and go surfing for the rest of his life.
General Stuck
Oh noes!! “imperial presidency” Unitary Executive” just like Bush. We are going to need pearls, Gracie, lots of pearls.
It’s post sunrise, do maybe mclaren is back in his box.
amk
@kwAwk: A ‘third party’ is more likely to attract ‘washington is against americans’ stupid dems and indies than the wingers. So it’s a net loss for dems.
Southern Beale
Interesting, because we’ve just had those allegations of campaign finance irregularities about Huntsman, too. That he was possibly defrauded or something. I think it was all resolved but it seems like the GOP henchmen are trying to take him down. You can be a maverick in the GOP as long as you don’t Damage The Brand.
El Cid
Donald Trump will be sharing his noble economic expertise with the Scottish Parliament.
There might be some self-interest involved, as hard as that might seem for someone so stable and successful as Mr. Trump.
Hopefully those Scottish parliamentarians will be quiet and respectful to Mr. Trump instead of asking him for evidence and other rude questions.
JPL
Sounds as though someone is having a
hissy fit, whoops, I meant identity crisis.Villago Delenda Est
@El Cid:
I think a better approach would be to drive him away with bagpipes.
Roger Moore
@Soonergrunt:
This. Senator
PalpatineLieberman is the absolute worst.Roger Moore
@Southern Beale:
Oh, you can damage the brand; you just have to attack from the right rather than the left.
El Cid
@Villago Delenda Est: Or beat him with golf clubs and pelt uncooked haggis at him.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
For proof of this, look down a few threads and read all about the teatard movement which is making Boner’s life a living hell. Not that I any sympathy for the orange sack of shit, mind you.
El Cid
It was gratifying to see warpimp Eli Lake be called-out to his face for being a sneering loudmouth ignoramus (effectively though not in these words unfortunately) repeatedly on Chris Hayes’ show, including journalist Hooman Majd wondering aloud how it is that in America public figures feel so free to just ‘make things up’ and in response to his bigmouth hawk overtalking a female (and Moozlimy brown-type) guest ‘what is wrong with you?’.
Villago Delenda Est
@El Cid:
OK, that approach, while it has its appeal, also would invite PETA sanction for potentially injuring the small animal that lives on Trump’s head.
Dave
Yeah, but Captain Beefheart!
Forum Transmitted Disease
I understand Robert Gates; he was already there, he was not an elected partisan but rather career military, and we’re in the middle of a couple of wars.
But appointing Huntsman was not the best move the Obama admin has ever made, I know there were Dems just as qualified. Unforced error. Hopefully Obama has learned by now that these folks really are scorpions, they just can’t help fucking you over.
quannlace
I thought when Republicans were upset with someone they compared them to Hitler and Nazi Germany. I guess China is the new Third Reich.
SiubhanDuinne
O/T, but POTUS is delivering one helluva moving speech at the Holocaust Museum.
HRA
What little I saw of Morning Joe with Huntsman left me with 2 thoughts. The first was enjoying the stone faced Joe watching Huntsman as he spoke.
The other was Huntsman promoting China policy which I believe he based on their economy. I checked out some remarks in other places through Memeorandum which, of course were not at all receptive by the right. China’s economy is booming at a price to the work force. Am I seeing a parallel to the ReThugs moves on the unions?
Amir Khalid
Given Jon Huntsman’s abject performance in the 2012 Republican presidential race (didn’t even make it to the first primary, as I recall) is he even taken seriously as a force within the party? Das heist, does he have any real threat to put behind those mutterings about a third party?
Villago Delenda Est
@HRA:
China is a virtual paradise to Gilded Age nostalgists. Capital rules, totally, the workers are kept in line by government controlled thugs, and all forms of regulation that get in the way of sacred short term profit are banished. Go ahead and sell adulterated pet and human food. The government there will do nothing to stop you…and if your labor force so much as blinks, tanks are yours for the asking.
Redshift
@Forum Transmitted Disease: How so? It made him completely unpalatable to GOP primary voters, as intended. Yeah, he seems like a pretty incompetent campaigner in hindsight, but that wasn’t at all obvious from his career history.
General Stuck
Improvement in the economy is important on a national basis, but for the purposes of the election it is much more important in the dozen or so purple, or swing states
Good news , and again, the increases in manufacturing jobs is more important than national stats for overall job creation, concerning the upcoming election, imho, or the percent of unemployed number. You can probly thank the “too small” stimulus for putting the big bucks behind R and D as longer term stimulus, creating new markets. and new manufacturing.
So, stop worrying, and learn to love yer inner Obot.
Villago Delenda Est
@General Stuck:
Yeah, but that’s all “long term” shit. What is Obama doing for me in the current fiscal quarter?
Valdivia
@El Cid:
I have a story with said neocon. But it will have to wait for a late late night thread when I am +10.
Let’s just say that everything we suspect about the neocon brigade’s overcompensation is right.
ThresherK
@Linda Featheringill: Huntsman can say “real debate” all he wishes, as it’s in no danger of happening. If it were, he’d change his tune.
I think it’s becoming sort of a dogwhistle to the Third-Wayers.
SiubhanDuinne
@Valdivia:
In the “maybe it’s time for new glasses” department, I totally read the word “neocon” as “raccoon.” Both times.
Of course, the fact that whatever lives on Donald Trump’s head had been under discussion, I guess it’s kinda understandable.
Culture of Truth
Who is the real Obama? Is he secretly Jewish??
Roger Moore
@Redshift:
Also, too, he seems to have been a pretty decent ambassador, so it’s not as if we were somehow sacrificing on the policy side of things. And it let Obama show off his bipartisan spirit, which seemed important at the time. It seems like it was a reasonable move, even if subsequent events have rendered some of the reasons for it moot.
Villago Delenda Est
@Culture of Truth:
(cue sound of fundigelical wingtard haids kerploding)
Tone In DC
@Villago Delenda Est:
LULz.
Hasn’t D. Trump declared bankruptcy on more than one occasion? After starting out in life on third base with a sizable inheritance?
Culture of Truth
Pheh. Anyone can win swing states. Who’s going win in the real America?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Roger Moore:
__
I think the rule of thumb in the GOP is that it is OK to damage the brand so long as you do even greater damage to the country as a whole and to our national interests, because for them that counts as a net gain. Much like in the old Russian joke about the peasant who was granted one wish from a genie and wished that his neighbor’s cow was dead. The GOP today is a cow-killing Russian peasant with a magic media lamp which they keep rubbing to get more wishes.
Roger Moore
@General Stuck:
And expect Obama to absolutely hammer Romney on “Let GM and Chrysler die” in those states. It’s a specific regional issue where Romney is incredibly vulnerable, especially because it’s a rare issue where he’s decided to double down on the stupid rather than try to flip-flop and pander to local voters.
Culture of Truth
Huntsman turned out not to be a great campaigner, thought no worse, really, than Romney or other members of the lackluster crew of the SS GOP 2012. But by appointing him back then, Obama effectively killed any national career he might have had with the GOP. Worth noting when it seems like everyone including Paul Krugman is bemoaning O’s lack of mad political skills.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tone In DC:
Not only did he start out with a substantial “loan” from his multimillionaire father, he later inherited still more when said father joined the choir invisible.
And yes, he’s declared bankruptcy multiple times. Yet he still finds idiots willing to loan him more.
El Cid
@Culture of Truth: The only Real Americans fly Confederate flags — it’s how you know they’re patriotic.
Culture of Truth
@El Cid: Exactly. Let Obama take the swing states. Call me when he wins Alabama.
El Cid
@Valdivia: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Mark S.
Huntsman sure gets a lot of attention for a guy who consistently polled around 1%. And I’m sick of him being called a moderate. His economic policies were just as reactionary as the rest of the field’s. He shouldn’t get a cookie for saying the world is older than 6,000 years.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
“Who is the real Obama? Is he secretly Jewish??”
Hey, Kosher meat is acceptable as Halal.
It’s all part of his sekrit Mooslim agenda. Like killin Bin Laden. He’s just waiting until we’re off guard, and then it’s sharia law all over, folks.
Gus
True, but I’ll always cut him slack, ’cause he likes Captain Beefheart. Not politically, mind you. Politically he’s a loser.
runt
On the bright side, he just won the undying love of Tom Friedman. I expect to see a “Huntsman for president” column in the NYT pretty soon.
Citizen Alan
Interesting. I’ve said all along that Huntsman knows perfectly well he’s unelectable as a Republican in the current climate and his 2012 campaign has been all about positioning. If Obama wins as expected, Huntsman makes a big show of how radical the GOP has become and switch parties so he can run as “moderate Dem” in 2016.
Valdivia
@El Cid:
exactly my feelings! but please let’s be clear, it’s more a story of proximity and not carnality! I have my standards! :)
@SiubhanDuinne:
I almost lost my coffee there. I think raccoon fits.
Clime Acts
MM, what is your main point here?
That Huntsman is a fuckup if he wants to remain in the R party and kiss their asses?
That the idea of a third party is insane and no one should ever mention such a thing?
that he should keep his mouth shut and play the game?
What, exactly?
Hal
Jon Huntsman? That name sounds familiar. I seem to remember some guy whose entrance into the race was going to change everything and blow Obama right out of the water.
Hoodie
@Citizen Alan: Which could explain why he’s doing this now. For that plan to work, Huntsman has to make sure that Romney is perceived as allied with extremists and party purists, thus necessitating the third party. Otherwise there’s no “moderate” opening 2016. Right now, Romney is on the cusp of the big pivot to the illusory center,starting with a “moderate” VP pick (probably a recycled Bush hack like Portman or a detuned McDonnell from VA). Romney’s best shot is to gamble that the 27%’s hatred of Obama is so intense they’ll hold their noses and vote for a Romney/tapioca ticket anyway, and “center right” America will realize that good ole’ Mitt is an alright, Dad kind of guy that looks good on a horse and will deal with those loose-zippered Secret Service agents and other unauthorized sexy time. Huntsman may be trying to throw a monkey wrench in that plan.
Catsy
@Hoodie:
Romney can’t possibly be that stupid and ill-advised.
The only ghost of a chance Romney has lies in motivating enough conservatives to pull the lever for him that he outperforms McCain and flips several key swing states.
Choosing anyone but a hard-right wingnut would be a titanic raised middle finger to movement conservatives.
FlipYrWhig
@Citizen Alan: @kwAwk: I do think we’ll see an attempt to re-boot something like the “Moderate Republicans,” though probably without the name “Republicans” or “Democrats.” It’ll be something like the Common Sense Party, and it’ll include people like Huntsman and Manchin, maybe Bloomberg, maybe Charlie Crist. The agenda will basically be about lowering some taxes and cutting some benefits and taking a libertarian-ish view on drugs and war — that’s my best guess. They’ll try to peel off the Democrats who think The Democrats are too liberal and the Republicans who think the Republicans are too crazy. Unfortunately for us, that would essentially duplicate the current agenda of the mainstream Democrats, so we’d end up with two deficit-reducing, spending-cutting parties skeptical of acting on climate change, and a rump of Liberal Democrats still calling themselves Democrats. I’m just not confident that the remaining Democrats would win a lot of seats, and I think we’d get stuck with at best a Dem/Centrist coalition… Which is what we have now and don’t particularly enjoy.
FlipYrWhig
@Hoodie: My hunch is still that Romney runs with someone who isn’t a politician, and goes all in on the strategy that he can get America working again by applying whatever works rather than The Government.
Thymezone
Huntsman now is reduced to being a booking whore. Whenever the Morning Jokes or Blitz Wolfman shows need a cheap guest who will gladly lie down for an interview, they whistle for Huntsman, who is probably right outside the stage door waiting for the security guy to take a bathroom break so he can sneak in.
Hoodie
@Catsy: No way that works for Romney. Rove ran that scenario in ’04 and barely won, even with an incumbent candidate still enjoying a reservoir of 9-11 goodwill and Kerry as an opponent. Even if Romney tried to run a base campaign, he’s probably maxed out on the base right now. He has to depend on the base’s hatred of Obama to carry through November and try to pick off enough noncommitteds to put him over the top. He can’t do that without trying to pivot. The base will be told to fall in line, and they’ll be a certain amount of winking (torch planned parenthood) and fear-peddling (SC noms) to keep them there.
Mnemosyne
@Tone In DC:
Donald Trump went bankrupt running a casino.
That’s all you need to know in order to judge his business acumen, or rather his lack of it. You have to work really, really hard to go broke running a business where people walk in the door and hand you cash money for fun.
(Yes, I know the forbidden word will put me into moderation, but I didn’t feel like talking around it.)
Mnemosyne
@kwAwk:
On what planet do you see moderate refugees from the Republican Party and left-wing Democrats getting together to form a third party? Isn’t what you describe what we already have as the Democratic Party?
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: I thought kwawk wanted the Democratic moderates to up and leave for the new third party ETA with the moderate Republicans, leaving the Democratic name and voice for the liberals.
Anoniminous
@MattF:
So do many people. Most of us, tho’, manage to cognize enough of this world to remain functional.
Another Halocene Human
Huntsman’s agitating for a Lucky Sperm Club Party. Unfortunately, neither is his sperm lucky enough (Koch level), nor is he craven enough to deal with the reichtards the GOLSPCP made a devil’s pact with the get elected forty years ago.
He didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left him, etc, too.
Another Halocene Human
@kwAwk: More Lieberman style “Independents”?
Well, if the rubes are dumb enough to vote for them it could be quite lucrative in terms of Korporate Kash.
It seems like you need a base, first, before you go ConservaDem. Otherwise the district just goes Republican.
Another Halocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est:
Word. Maybe he could also do a Meghan McCain– a little light punditry, entertain us on the Twitter, write a book to be coffeestained… You know, the good life.
Another Halocene Human
@El Cid: Thank you for the link, Cid. I missed UP this weekend. That was brilliant. Kind of reinforced some of my worst prejudices, I must say, but I f*cking hate neocons, so what is new? That little shitweasel looked like Dr Evil, wonder if he realizes that? I’d like to see some liberal Jews on the political talky shows, the kind of Judaism I grew up with. Not this ultra-chauvinist id-smoke-dream stuff.
Ditto for Catholicism. Why are all the Catholics these recidivist authoritarian embarrassments?
FlipYrWhig
@Another Halocene Human: In a lot of districts the Democratic base is conservative. For that matter in a lot of districts pretty much the whole damn party is conservative. Look at how D’s can win big in places like Arkansas and Kentucky.
FlipYrWhig
@Another Halocene Human: It is COMPLETELY screwed up how Jews on cable news are preoccupied with Israeli military strength and how Catholics are preoccupied with sexual behavior. It’s like a religious minstrel show catering to the worst possible image of what members of these groups care about.
the fugitive uterus
well now he opens his yap
the fugitive uterus
just because he didn’t act like a complete lunatic during the primaries does not mean he is smart! I was never impressed. the bar has been lowered to the basement.
the fugitive uterus
@Clime Acts:
He certainly had no criticisms of the party when running, even when pointedly asked about the current state of the party, he would retreat like a frightened deer.
Another Halocene Human
@FlipYrWhig: I think that’s what I meant, but I expressed it badly. The population is pretty conservative, even if they are self-identified po’ folks. Basically, you can be the sort of corporate whore these third way sorts are fantasizing about, but you have to initially run as the “outsider, just like you, agin’ all the things you’re agin'” and get entrenched before you utterly sell out. I believe that was my point.
You just can’t pony into those sorts of places, call yourself third party, and win.
I think the problem with my comment is that I used the word base to mean in a more traditional sense the organizers and voters for a particular candidate, who has built them up after working up from local office to state office to national office. The voting base, as you mean it, is, of course, conservative, which is why the best we at a distance can hope for are representatives from those places who are less bad.
burritoboy
Trump’s dad, Fred, was the real big money-maker, though Donald Trump does have a certain real flair for branding real estate, which really hadn’t been done much before him. Fred, though, made a truly gigantic pile of money from a modest start. But Fred’s Dad, Frederick Trump Sr, was in the real estate business too (he wasn’t a big success, admittedly, his sons and wife were the real earners).
Donald Trump is half-Scottish, BTW.
burritoboy
Re: 68
Compared to the Kochs, everybody looks like a midget (except maybe Buffett and Gates – maybe). The Huntsman clan’s 3-5 billion ain’t nothing to sneeze at.
FlipYrWhig
@Another Halocene Human: Oh, yeah, OK, I think we were really saying much the same thing just two different ways. I thought you meant that a 3rd party wouldn’t have a _liberal_ base in his pocket… But you didn’t say that at all. My bad.