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This post is in: Election 2008, Media
This is funny. MSNBC is reporting that the Obama campaign packed his press contingent on the plane, took off, and the media looked around and noticed Obama is not on the jet. He is instead secretly meeting Hillary at her house.
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[…] John Cole at Balloon Juice: This is funny. MSNBC is reporting that the Obama campaign packed his press contingent on the plane, took off, and the media looked around and noticed Obama is not on the jet. He is instead secretly meeting Hillary at her house. […]
Conservatively Liberal
Did he send them to Disneyland? ;)
I really like this guy Obama. He knows how to move and move fast enough to leave everyone else in the dust.
Geoduck
Eh. He’s gonna have enough trouble with the press as it is without pulling stunts like that.
CaseyL
This, plus the really smooth way he backed Lieberman into a corner, plus how fast he consolidated his control over the DNC…
I’ve supported Obama on the issues, and for hope’s sake. I’ve admired and applauded him, but never got all fan-girly.
Until now.
The fact that he is out-thinking everyone, out-maneuvering everyone, and taking control without missing a beat is making me just a little weak in the knees.
Just Some Fuckhead
The really cool part is when Obama gets back on the plane after he flies alongside of it for a few minutes grinning at the press contingent through the windows.
nightjar
This should give him the closest real life experience before (and if) he ever meets with Achmameanajob.
Incertus
No wonder the media likes John McCain. They’re as smart as he is.
Adrienne
This just confirms that Obama has the BEST campaign staff especially his press people. They are disciplined, focused, and most importantly they are fiercely loyal to Obama and each other. They have executed an almost flawless campaign with very little unauthorized press leaks. This is just another feather on their caps. Well done.
Just Some Fuckhead
You make them sound like Mrs. Baylock and her dog.
dmsilev
Dare we hope that the reporter-laden plane is en route to the Lost island or something?
-dms
Jorge
Maybe, finally, people will realize that this is a black guy named Barrack Hussein Obama who managed to go from unknown state senator to the Democratic candidate for POTUS in 4 years. Smart doesn’t begin to describe it…
Jake
MSNBC also had a clip from him on the plane where he told them that there were not going to be any leaks about the VP selection, and that if they heard any rumors, he was telling them in advance they would be false.
If that was right before his disappearing act, man, did he provide an excellent example of his staff’s message discipline, less the press not believe him. This guy is kicking ass and taking names.
Post of the thread. You win.
Rome Again
My only problem with this is that personally I think it is Hillary who should have gone to Obama’s home instead. Why is he coming to her?
It suggests he’s going to kiss her ring.
4tehlulz
Fixed.
Jon H
After McCain’s wet noodle of a speech the other night, I’m starting to wonder if the GOP *wants* to lose. I can’t think of any other reason for them to ditch the stagecraft they used for Bush. It’s not like Bush needs those event-staging, backdrop-designing, “Mission Accomplished” banner-hanging people right now.
If that’s the case, it’s kind of unfortunate. With a candidate like Obama and the neurosurgical precision of his campaign, it’ll kind of suck if it’s wasted on a campaign that’s as challenging as a roadkill skunk.
Jon H
“The really cool part is when Obama gets back on the plane after he flies alongside of it for a few minutes grinning at the press contingent through the windows.”
He flew to Clinton’s house in his flying armor suit.
Rome Again
True dat!
Jake
He plans to give her the People’s Elbow. Can you smell what Barack is cooking?
Jon H
“Why is he coming to her?”
She can’t afford cab fare.
John O
I’m telling you, the man played a lot of basketball in Chicago. So did I. He’s shown no fear, and I don’t think he will.
He’s smart, competitive, tough, and a good sport. It comes through clear to me. I suspect he’s be a blast to play either with or against.
Just think how much it means, how much it says about his skills that he’s made it this far. I would’ve voted for Hillary in a second, but I honestly believe Obama has a chance to really change things around here.
He’s no messiah. He’ll need to compromise in ways I don’t like. He’s too centrist for my particular tastes…I don’t see the GOP compromising on anything, ever, and for that I want their necks stepped on. I don’t think he’ll do it, but he might. There’s no way he could adopt that kind of personality on the campaign, but I’ll bet he can talk some trash when he knows the game is over.
I think hope, finally, is viable.
Lavocat
He’s bringing the battle to HER turf. He’s projecting himself into HER space.
Besides, by going to her, he retains control over the situation – instead of waiting for her to come to him.
I like this kid, Obama, he REALLY knows how to play the power game.
Can’t wait to see what he does to The Tired Old White Man TM.
Leo
Jon H: I wouldn’t worry about that. If McCain’s campaign is as bad as it seems, Obama will just use his apparatus to run up the score. If you think he’s in control now, imagine where he would be if he won with a 10% popular vote margin.
We haven’t seen the like since the New Deal.
gex
O/T: Indicted Saudi gets $80 million US contract
Indicted Saudi
nightjar
One of the impressive things about his campaign staff is their invisibility. Except for a couple very minor mishaps like the Canada/NAFTA thing, you don’t know they exist, except by the smooth running of things. It keeps the spotlight always on the candidate, as it should be. The only one I know by name is Axelrod who goes on TV occasionally and is nothing but impressive as hell. And I know way too many of Clinton’s staff from their constant mischief. Similar could be said about McCain.
Rome Again
Great snark, but I fear some crazed Clinton supporters making a driveby might truly believe it.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’ve been made privy to a snatch of conversation from their meeting after drinks were served:
Black Man: Now, where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right, and who is dead.
Hillary: But it’s so simple! All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy’s? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I’m not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Black Man: You’ve made your decision then?
Hillary: Not remotely. Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Black Man: Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
Hillary: Wait ’til I get going! [small pause] Where was I?
Black Man: Australia.
Hillary: Yes, Australia, and you must have suspected I would have known the powder’s origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Black Man: You’re just stalling now.
Hillary: You’d like to think that, wouldn’t you? You’ve beaten my giant, which means you’re exceptionally strong. So, you could have put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you’ve also bested my Spaniard which means you must have studied. And in studying, you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Black Man: You’re trying to trick me into giving away something — it won’t work.
Hillary: It has worked! You’ve given everything away! I know where the poison is!
Black Man: Then make your choice.
Hillary: I will. And I choose… [points beyond Obama’s shoulder] *gasp!* What in the world can that be?
Black Man: [Turns to look while Hillary switches the goblets] What? Where? I don’t see anything.
Hillary: Oh, well, I-I could have sworn I saw something. No matter. [Cackles]
Black Man: What’s so funny?
Hillary: I’ll tell you in a minute, but first, let’s drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
[They drink, Hillary continues to cackle]
Black Man: You guessed wrong.
Hillary: You only think I guessed wrong, that’s what’s so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia.” But only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!” Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ah ha ha ha he ha ha! Ah ha ha ha– [Suddenly goes stiff and falls over dead]
Incertus
Especially if he brings in 20 new Representatives and half a dozen new Senators along for the ride.
Jake
More on the meeting here. She apparently requested this today.
I figure he was in VA today, and probably wants to deal with the dirty sooner rather than later.
Jon H
“Great snark, but I fear some crazed Clinton supporters making a driveby might truly believe it.”
Oh, sorry, how about this: “Because Bill took the car out to get serviced.”
Better?
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
I watched some of HANNITY & colmes comedy hour tonight and Jerry Springer is talking with Hannity about Obama. All Hannity can do is rattle of his “list of terror” – “He sat in the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years, he gives speeches and sits on board with mad Capital bombing terrorist Bill Ayers and he hangs out with the Farrakhan hugging Father Pfleger! How is this man even getting 20% of the vote?”
It’s sad when Jerry Springer is the reasonable, grounded adult in the room.
Incertus
Oh, and speaking of McCain’s bad campaign strategists, did you see the request for videos telling an American story, to be aired at the convention? I wouldn’t want to be the poor chump tasked with vetting those videos.
calipygian
I was thinking something along the lines of an Andean mountain top with a load of soccer balls.
Rome Again
I hope you’re right. I guess I don’t know much about power games. I’ve never played them myself. It just suggests to me that she’s the one making demands.
Cain
It occurs to me that this man is a very dangerous political operative. Thank god he’s not Bush.. he would have done all Bush had done but competently.
He’s on the side of right though, and I know that. He’s going to show the world a phoenix rising from the ashes. Things are going to get uncomfortable for the GOP.
cain
Just Some Fuckhead
He’s going to be in my state a whole lot between now and November. Hopefully the crowds will thin out some by November and I can go see him without rubbing shoulders with the proletariat. Christ, I’m getting all itchy again.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
I don’t think Obama has a house in Washington DC.
John O
I repeat my theory that a Supreme Court nomination would get both Bill and Hillary to bust their ass for him.
She could get the nod in the Senate he’ll have. It burnishes the Clinton legacy, and it is the only place including the Presidency and the Senate that she could impact the body-politic for so long, and so profoundly.
It would make a lot of Hillary defectors to McCain feel really, really stupid, too, which is a bonus.
Rome Again
Yes, it suggests another bill that won’t be paid, but, that they still have enough credit to get service of some sort. ;) Thank you.
Jake
If I was a betting man, I’d say there’s a good chance the Big Dog’s not in DC tonight.
ThymeZone
The early impressions of the new general election campaign, for me, are that Obama is a better candidate than I thought he would be, and McCain is worse. Considering where I started, that’s quite a gap.
A guy at work today said, “MCain is going to win big.”
“Really?” I said. “I have a hundred dollars that says he loses.”
Silence. Wouldn’t take the bet. Wouldn’t take the bet for ten dollars. “Come on, put your money where your mouth is, .”
“No thanks.”
I was talking to a guy who makes six figures, and was talking trash.
Wouldn’t bet ten dollars on McCain.
It is going to be a fun year.
Conservatively Liberal
‘… a three hour tour…’ ;)
They put a parking boot on her jet for unpaid bills?
I think it is good that he is going to see her. This stops any meme from her more rabid supporters that she ‘has to go bow before the king and kiss his ring’ or some other bilgewater like that. He is in a strong enough position to make this move and, if anything, he should score a few ‘grace’ points for doing so. It is a very magnanimous move on his part.
But I am sure that the hard core element in her supporters will find something sexist in it…lol
Ted
My guess would be class and grace. Why wouldn’t he go to her place to meet?
The Grand Panjandrum
Harumph! He’s the Magical Unity Pony and don’t need no steenkin’ armor suit.
I have been wondering the same thing myself. How is it they have had so many missteps so early? I have my suspicions but I wonder if they aren’t trying to lay the Iraq/Afghanistan impending disaster at the feet of the Democrats. We keep hearing all the “good news” from Petraeus but I’m just not convinced that he isn’t just keeping a lid on the pressure cooker.
Cain
Naw, more like the Lost World. Those fuckers will take forever to get off that plateau!
cain
Jake
Yeah I’m not a fan of this, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Scalia’s head explode from time to time. You know she would absolutely drive him insane.
Rome Again
He doesn’t have any confidantes in Washington that would be willing to lend him a smoking room for a few hours?
Well, perhaps we’re all wrong, Abrams is reporting that while the Clinton house is lit up like a Christmas Tree, Obama is not there and they may be meeting somewhere else!
John O
Where they meet is largely driven by political expediency, logistics, and privacy.
The rest is hogwash.
Krista
…yet.
Ted
Damn good.
nightjar
It would fun as hell to watch the Hill and Scalia at each others throats. Might even make for some entertaining reality TV.
And no more Sun Queen for prez.
John O
Jake, why? She’s a lot more centrist than she is portrayed, and we need another woman on the Court.
There is simply no one outside Dennis K. and perhaps Russ who are remotely “liberal.” I can lay out a lot of “liberal” stuff for you that not a single Dem is campaigning on or promoting in any way. Two come immediately to mind: A change in the way the WOD is fought, and single-payor.
Darkrose
See, if Hillary had only watched The Princess Bride, she might have known better than to vote for the AUMF, and she’d be the nominee right now.
Jon H
“They put a parking boot on her jet for unpaid bills?”
I think the Clintons have a house in NW Washington DC, which is probably where she is.
Nobody puts a boot on Air Fuck.
Jake
Wow – the double head fake. I like it more.
How can you watch Abrams show? He acts like such a fucking child these days. He has got to have one of the goofiest schticks going of all the pundits. I don’t know what the heck happened to that guy, but he lost it.
ThymeZone
The cameras are at Hillary’s House, but there is no evidence that Obama and Hillary are there.
Sounds like they are still ditching the press as we speak.
Incertus
It could just be that there’s not enough money to convince the pros to get in. McCain’s not bringing in the big bucks, certainly not like Dubya did, and maybe the experienced people figure it doesn’t matter what they do, they can’t win with McCain, and there’s easier money to be made.
Rome Again
That’s awesome!
TZ, so you are just playing with the idea that AZ may be in play now or are you starting to believe it?
Jon H
“I repeat my theory that a Supreme Court nomination would get both Bill and Hillary to bust their ass for him.”
I dunno. Supreme Court justices and their spouses are generally not prominent public figures. That part of the role doesn’t seem like a good fit for the Clintons.
dr. bloor
Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, indeed.
Just Some Fuckhead
Yeah, except that isn’t what would happen. They’d form a very collegial relationship and co-author some of the finest conservative decisions ever handed down by the Supremes.
John O
They are kicking the press’ ass.
Sadly, that probably means they’ll both get savaged even more than usual by our Fearless Leaders of The Great Tube of Learning.
Cain
The press is are going to have to come up with smarter people to keep up with him. I’m going to love his press briefings when he’s president. I’m looking for good comedic gold. :)
cain
ThymeZone
I thought it was impossible.
I don’t think so any more. McCain’s support here is wide, and thin. He hasn’t done much for this state other than bring it notariety during the Keating scandal. He hasn’t made a lot of friends here.
I am going to predict that Arizona might actually be in play.
John Cole
I have laughed about ten times over this.
Cain
hillaryis44 is now obamais44! :-) woo!
hillaryis44.blogspot.com/
she’ll have to change her host name though. not sure if she can do that.
cain
Rome Again
Who said I’m watching it? I simply ignore most of it and turn my eyes and ears toward the tv when I hear “breaking news”.
I simply didn’t change the channel and left it on, I’m not “watching” him.
Conservatively Liberal
If Hillary was placed on the SCOTUS, she would redefine it and make it all about her. Not saying that this is good or bad, just that you can bet it would happen.
Que the theme to “Rocky” as she walks up the steps to the court for the first time.
Cain
hillaryis44 is now obamais44! :-) woo!
here
she’ll have to change her host name though. not sure if she can do that.
cain
ps dammit..when is that new site coming online, John? I completely forgot to add the link properly. Don’t kill me.
dmsilev
And the media apparently had camera crews staking out the house since 6 AM. And didn’t see anyone coming in. So, either Obama is either Iron Man and The Invisible Man (and probably Batman as well), or he’s managed to execute a perfect double-head-fake, nailing the dismount.
The Russian judge gives it a 9.8!
-dms
John O
Jon H., I had this very conversation with a conservative pal at work.
My working theory is that while Bill may want, need, and enjoy the campaign process and spotlight, I’m not so sure Hillary does. She’s more of a private wonk, and has always struck me as an uncomfortable campaigner.
And it isn’t like 20 years of Court decisions doesn’t keep her in the spotlight.
Tzal
Obama has a 3000 ELO rating in campaigning.
nightjar
If your right, it would be a sure sign the Apocalypse is near.
Jake
I don’t really have a problem with her politics (excepting the obliterate Iran nonsense), and I agree about another woman on the court. I just suspect that in terms of legal minds, there are many, many better choices. Look, she’s a bright lady, don’t get me wrong, but the SC is on another level, and she failed the bar exam in DC.
I want someone with a liberal mindset who can tie Scalia and Roberts in intellectual knots on that court.
Just Some Fuckhead
Amendment: Unless the Chief Justice slot came open and Scalia challenged her for it, then it’d turn into the ugliest court battle ever.
Rome Again
whoohoo! We had better get to work. :)
TheFountainHead
I think there’s a lot of that going on. Getting on board with McCain is to get on the Spittle-filled-talk Express to nowheresville. Who would want to to do that? More importantly, what person with talent would want to do that?
John O
She failed a bar exam? Link, please.
She was one of the nation’s top 100 lawyers before anyone even knew who she was, and there are very few, even among her opponents, that doubt her intellect.
And just as a personal observation, I can’t imagine HRC failing an academic test of any kind. We’ve all known them.
ThymeZone
Okay, liveblogging Last Comic Standing. My favorite joke so far:
“I was at Costco this morning, and peeing on the vegetables. Clerk comes over. What in the world are you doing?”
Holds up card.
“Uh, I’m a member here?”
TheFountainHead
It also occurrs to me that while some of the press might get their panties in a twist of stuff like this, the vast majority of them are going to have a good laugh and just admire his gamesmanship.
Conservatively Liberal
From Wikipedia:
John O
Doesn’t the POTUS pick the Chief Justice?
Assuming Obama is POTUS, I doubt Scalia is in play for the job.
Heck, I’ll be ol’ Nino considers retirement if Obama wins and the Republicans lose big in the Congressional elections. He’s 72.
Does anyone know if the POTUS has the power to change Chief Justices, anyway? IIRC, the POTUS does not.
Tzal
There will be a lot of “moments” between now and November in this campaign. But this campaign began with McCain delivering one of of Obama’s speeches, but ending every sentence with “NOT!” while creepily chortling into the camera.
I don’t know where I’m going with this but when I’m down typing I’ll be going to the fridge for another IPA.
Just Some Fuckhead
John O., she failed the DC bar exam. She passed the one in Arkansas. I’ll leave the jokes about that to the comedians. :)
And really, what the fuck does it mean to be one of the nation’s top 100 lawyers? Is that anything like People Magazine’s 50 Best Dressed?
As far as your personal observations, yawn.
Rome Again
That’s beautiful. Thanks! I love that picture they used.
rob!
man, Obama’s not wasting any time being impressive, is he? cornerning Lieberman, reworking the DNC, and now hoodwinking the press, but in a cool, impish kinda way.
heck, even Kristol the Bloody complimented him today. my god, did we all slip into alternate universe sometime tuesday night?
if so, i don’t wanna leave!
Just Some Fuckhead
I watched Food Networks Next Food Star. I fucking love food and I’m hoping the cajun salmon sandwich wins it all.
Jon H
John O. wrote: “My working theory is that while Bill may want, need, and enjoy the campaign process and spotlight, I’m not so sure Hillary does. She’s more of a private wonk, and has always struck me as an uncomfortable campaigner.”
Yeah, but usually the spouse is even more of a non-entity than the justice. Even if Hillary’s okay with only appearing in the media through people reading transcripts of court proceedings on-air, I’m not sure Bill’s adventures and entanglements and public activity would fit with the role of being a justice’s spouse.
On the other hand, as mentioned above, perhaps they would redefine the role, and Hillary would arrive for court wearing a robe that’s like something Glinda the Good Witch would wear.
John O
Thanks, CL.
I gotta say, though, that was a LONG time ago. I haven’t heard even the most conservative of Senators claim she doesn’t know her shit.
If she became one of the top 100 lawyers in the U.S. anyway, well, let’s just concede that tests don’t mean everything, do they?
She’s no dummy.
Mary
John O., Clinton herself disclosed that she had failed the DC bar before passing the Arkansas bar in her memoir Living History.
ThymeZone
It’s probably tasty, but can it tell a joke?
Jon H
John O. wrote: “She was one of the nation’s top 100 lawyers before anyone even knew who she was, and there are very few, even among her opponents, that doubt her intellect.”
Weeeellll, I dunno.
It wouldn’t go over very well if she wrote an opinion on a gun-related case where she just said “The 2nd Amendment doesn’t count.”
Rome Again
Take the groupie t-shirt off and gain a bit of real perspective please? She is human, and she is fallible, just like all humans are.
jake
John, you should have shut off comments after that one.
Mary
Oh well, I was scooped.
ThymeZone
Finally, the truth.
Just Some Fuckhead
Thanks Jake but I’m still trying to outdo myself. :)
Jon H
“The really cool part is when Obama gets back on the plane after he flies alongside of it for a few minutes grinning at the press contingent through the windows.”
Maybe he’ll fly around the earth against the direction of rotation, so fast that time reverses, and he’ll pop up at McCain’s speech for a cameo.
John O
Well, yeah, lots of us have boring personal observations, but personal observations being my life’s work, I’ll rest on my record. :-) And beware dismissing my inner-city basketball experience of many years when it comes to understanding people. I golf, too. *blush* Sports DOES reveal character and personality.
(Oh, and yes, the jokes do write themselves. But regarding the top 100 lawyers in the country, I don’t think that is a popular vote kind of thing. More “inside lawyering,” IIRC.) It isn’t, after all, anything most of us give a crap about.
Rome Again
I’m reserving my reaction until after I hear what was discussed tonight, but so long as anything sans VP slot is the end result, I don’t wanna leave either.
Cathy in Portland
As
Cain Says:
“It occurs to me that this man is a very dangerous political operative. Thank god he’s not Bush.. he would have done all Bush had done but competently.”
Lately, I’ve been pondering the same thing… He may be very, very good. Recall in January that Obama said that Reagan was a figure who had changed the political landscape (true observation) and did NOT name Clinton (also true). Clinton went nuts. As I recall, it was the beginning of Clinton being red faced and off message. Was it a deliberate move on Obama’s part or, for him, a happy accident? Obama did it in a “thinking context” – an editorial board mtg, got points with pundits for intellect and guts, sparked some interest with Reagan lovers, and really, really pissed off Clinton, which worked out really well. Just saying….
Just Some Fuckhead
Yeah, and then with a herculean effort bend John McCain’s arms back into usable human form.
Just Some Fuckhead
Billable hours?
John O
LOL. A Hillary groupie? That’s a good one.
A competence step up would have appealed to me, though in her case it would’ve been mostly policy, and, well, competence related.
I’ve never trusted her as much as I do Bill. Wandering dick? I never cared; I’ve known men like that my entire post-puberty life.
This will start some fires: I am one of those weirdos who think Hillary is the only woman Bill has ever really, really respected, and his performance on her behalf during this campaign did nothing to dissuade me of this notion.
Tom
I saw it on TPM…and was wondering if MoveOn should send their entire collection of “Obama in 30 Seconds” videos.
El Doh
— Hillary Clinton, Living History
Jon H
JSF wrote: “Yeah, and then with a herculean effort bend John McCain’s arms back into usable human form.”
Or even harder to imagine, coach him on his performance until he’s actually a good speaker.
Cain wrote: “It occurs to me that this man is a very dangerous political operative.”
He reminds me a bit of Vetinari, the Patrician of Ankh-Morpork of the Discworld books, only without the scorpion pit. Only unlike Vetinari, nobody has realized the extent of Obama’s abilities.
El Doh
I always figured that was just he couldn’t really praise Clinton without aiding Hillary’s campaign, though I believe it is accurate to say Reagan changed things in a way Clinton didn’t.
John O
jsf: LOL.
You might be right about that one, but as cynical as I am, I haven’t crossed that far into the darkness.
NR
Agreed. Pissing off a bunch of reporters who already worship the ground that John McCain walks on is not a good idea.
John O
Put in more simple language: I don’t know any long-term married guy who isn’t at least a little tired of sex with the wife, doesn’t wish he couldn’t have sex with others (like many don’t), and (here is that personal observation thing again) none of it means he doesn’t love his wife.
In the case of the Alpha Dog, which only a moron would argue BC isn’t, quadruple it.
Not 200 years ago, it was more or less ASSUMED the King would have his harem. Queen, too, if you want to count Cleopatra and a handful of other powerful women.
Jon H
Given that Hillary was/had been on the Wal-Mart board, and was the wife of the Arkansas governor, I’m sure she’d have qualified as probably the most powerful lawyer in Arkansas, whatever her ability in the courtroom. That might have been enough to get her on the list.
libarbarian
Maybe, but its also just a basic gesture of respect to go to someone elses place to negotiate. He could have been a dick and insist she come to him. I think it was a small way of soothing her ego.
Mary
They might be pissed. Or they might admire the sonuvabitch. I’m not worrying about this right now.
John O
And all this is why Barr may ultimately get my vote.
LOL.
I try not to fight human nature.
Just Some Fuckhead
John O., you speak the God’s truth, Brother. I had this is mind when I tried to compliment my wife the other day, “Honey, I love all the extra weight you’ve put on because now it’s like fucking someone else.”
Well, we all know women can’t take a compliment and she ain’t no different.
Jon H
“Well, we all know women can’t take a compliment and she ain’t no different.”
At least you didn’t say “I’ve always wanted to fuck two women, and with all the extra weight you’ve put on, that’s what it’s like!”
Rome Again
Why is anyone so suddenly concerned about Hillary’s ego? She’s soothed it enough already as it is, it needs to be given a reality check.
Negotiating is what concerns me, I personally don’t think Hillary has much to offer. The people who have left the Hillary sites are not going to roll over when Hillary endorses Obama. She doesn’t have 18 million votes and she’s out of money. It’s time for her to take a break and go on a vacation.
A Different JC
I think we’ve found the perfect running mate! Thanks, Jake.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Actually, he’s going to toss her ring into the fire, and then pull it out and show her the red glowing writing in Elvish runes that was previously invisible:
“Ash nazg durbataluk, ash nazg gimbatul…”
James Carville will be lurking outside one of the windows, trying to figure out how to break into the house.
John O
You’re cracking me up, jsf.
Look, I know plenty of fantasy marriages, at least as best I can tell from the outside, dubious at best but I’m one of those people that others confide in, so I’m reasonably confident taking their word.
Interestingly, as I age, this applies to women as well. It isn’t that they don’t love their spouses, it’s just that it is a lot more fun and exciting to try another entree.
In any case, Bill Clinton’s infidelity never surprised me in the slightest. He IS the Great White Shark of American politics, until his (IMHO) true love of his wife got in the way during this campaign season.
Of course, the cynic in me tells me he just plain fucking owed her.
Rome Again
That analogy makes me feel better, thanks! ;)
AkaDad
I hope Chelsea isn’t lurking.
John Cole
If you are feeling snarky, I would recommend this.
Just Some Fuckhead
Christ Jesus Jon, I’m sorta hoping she never gets that big. But if she does, I’ll love every bit of her, ya know, scheduled over time..
jake
Please be careful when you place adjectives like “competent” near “Bush.” It disrupts the space-time continuinuinuinum.
I understand what you’re trying to say but there is no alternate universe where you will find a competent version of The Shrub because part of what makes him the Shrub is his incompetence and his inability to comprehend that he’s less than the smartest hombre on the block.
Rome Again
So what you’re saying is that while Bill used a Garcia Vega cigar on Monica, he consistently uses a real Havana on Hills?
Just Some Fuckhead
She can prolly get some sort of discount on tickets for eighteen million and two people.
Conservatively Liberal
Beats the hell out of getting forked. ;)
Now that is not only how Bush would spell it, he would say it that way too.
Just Some Fuckhead
lolz
jake
These two work:
And this one:
I’m convinced the dude has memorized TAoW.
ThymeZone
That is some seriously fabulous material.
We are not worthy.
John O
Nah, Rome Again, HRC would never go for that stuff, which is why he wants a taste of his own perversions.
Just like the rest of us. :-)
And even if you’ve done your wife a coupla hundred times with the Havana, blah blah blah.
Funny stuff, everyone. Thanks for the laughs.
Rome Again
Note to TZ: the Harriet Christian video I tried to share with you the other day is up and on this link.
Adam
They weren’t going to be privy to the conversation anyway, and they’ll still get to ask him about it, and they’ll all joke about it. It’s not an antagonistic or evasive move, which is all they care about. It’s not like he called out one person or was defensive; everyone got hoodwinked equally.
Frankly, it’s an alpha-male thing. Stuff like this is why John McCain gets a pass from his press corps; he plays the game with them and they eat it up.
Actually a brilliant move on Obama’s part.
Rome Again
Holy Shit!
Jon H
Now that Hillary’s dropping out, can someone hire Paul Edward Blaise McClure to make fabulous campaign videos in support of John McCain?
olvr
John O,
The President does nominate the Chief Justice, subject to Senate confirmation. Unfortunately, Roberts has got that job until he’s impeached or he croaks. We’re not looking at a vacancy there until, I dunno, the fucking 2030s or so.
(Which is one of the reasons I chuckle when people say this is the most important election in a generation. P’shaw. 2004 was the important one, and we blew it.)
In any case, I could see Obama secretly offering HRC the first Associate Justice opening in exchange for her full support during the campaign. It works for him – taking a rival (future primary challenger?) out of the Senate. And it works for her, especially if you subscribe to the theory (as I do) that her quest for the Presidency was really all about reaching equal historical footing with her husband. Despite her political centrism, I think she would rule to the left of any justice current on the court.
Plus, she’d be a cinch to confirm since she’s made nice with all the Senate GOPers.
curtadams
I think Obama said Reagan changed things and not Clinton because – it was true. We are still in the shadow of Reagan’s ideology although that’s changing (I hope!) Clinton mostly reacted to how things were, notably the increasing power of the Republican message machine.
She’s powerful and influential. Soothing her ego is free. He’d be a fool not to butter her up any way possible, and he’s as un-fool as they get.
Cain
True, only shrub would have come up with signing statements on every bill and so forth. In any case, I know Obama is a force for good not some kind of manchurian candidate. We’re already seeing what a competent man will do in government.
I’m going to be interested in all his cabinet picks. It’ll be fun. McOld is going to be left behind eating his lime jello and yelling at the kids to stop taking his McCain/Lieberman ’08 sign off of his lawn or maybe wiping the shit stains off of it. haha.
cain
John O
Right on, olvr. curtadams, too.
Obama is long beyond being called stupid or politically naive.
One small nit to pick, olvr: Things can always get worse.
A Different JC
One thing that impressed me about “Dreams of My Father” is how Barack’s upbringing was influenced by lessons learned from his father and step-father – both men were chosen by their countries to come to America to be given high degrees and return back to Kenya/Indonesia to be leaders. Barack’s step-father teaching him how to defend himself in the chaotic oppressive weirdness of Indonesia gives insight to how Obama learned to survive in a dangerous world.
Jake
David Brooks is now reporting that he’s spotted Hillary and Barack chatting in a booth at Applebees.
Jon H
Does Indonesia have an indigenous form of Ninjutsu?
Adam
I don’t want Stevens to leave :(
ThymeZone
Where?
Adam
NB: I just feel like pointing out that Justice Stevens was a cryptographer in WW2, and was on the team that cracked the message that revealed the location of Admiral Yamamoto’s plane. I get a kick out of that.
Jon H
“Where?”
Probably linked to from the words “Harriet Christian”
A Different JC
Pencak Silat. And they got cool knives too.
Rome Again
You sure about that?
Those who were loudest in supporting her have already moved to McCain’s camp. They will not go to Obama, they are sure he’s dirty. The more sedate of her followers are already coming around before she had this meeting.
D-Chance.
Ditching the press, eh? How… Cheney-esque.
I await the RedTube (NSFWOAE) video…
Jon H
RomeAgain wrote: “Those who were loudest in supporting her have already moved to McCain’s camp. They will not go to Obama, they are sure he’s dirty. The more sedate of her followers are already coming around before she had this meeting.”
Yeah, but longer term, she’ll at a minimum still be in the Senate. She can be a stone in his shoe for quite a while, if he doesn’t play his cards right.
Just Some Fuckhead
Thanks JC, that was crying funny. I’m going to wake up Mrs. Fuckhead now and read it to her.
John O
I got me some Harriet video on my own blog, though am probably too tired to understand how anyone couldn’t find it on their own.
Hilarious stuff.
Jon H
AD JC wrote: “And they got cool knives too.”
Yeah, that’s right. When I was little I had a reprint of an early-20th century “Bannerman Catalog Of Military Goods”, from a military surplus store that used to be in New York. It had all kinds of cool weapons like that, along with European stuff, armor, swords, rifles, pistols, etc.
Apparently the Bannermans had a castle-like building on an island in the Hudson, which they used as a warehouse/armory/weapons store.
John O
I got me some Harriet video on my own blog, though am probably too tired to understand how anyone couldn’t find it on their own.
Hilarious stuff.
Libertarians for Obama
He was renting an apartment in Mass Court on 3rd and H NW five years ago when I lived there. I’d imagine with his newfound wealth (modest though it may be), he might have bought a place by now.
Libertarians for Obama
The President nominates the Chief Justice’s replacement upon his retirement. Until Roberts leaves, it’s the Roberts court.
John Cole
Tom Watson is trying to walk his readers back from the brink after months of pro-Hillary rhetoric, and they are not buying. Apparently the Dean-DNC is the most misogynistic institution on earth, worse even than Hustler on steroids.
It is kind of funny watching all these people who spent months convincing their readers that Hillary is a victim and that the Obama campaign and supporters are evil evil evil and that Hillary can do no wrong now try to get the toothpaste back in the tube. Sad, but funny.
AkaDad
I’m glad Hillary supporters are so good at pointing out sexism and misogyny. I have no doubt they’ll be consistent and will stand up for Michelle when she’s attacked.
John O
I visited No Quarter today, and someone took the time to check out the ISP’s of quite a few of the commenters. What a surprise, lots of them came from the Freepers and other nutjob right-wing sites, posing as Hillary supporters.
No link on this one. Larry has jumped the shark.
Warren Terra
Can I just say that the Justice Clinton idea is a lousy idea?
I mean, even if we ignore the question of Clinton’s qualifications – and they’re very questionable, she was a mid-level corporate lawyer in the 80’s and has never clerked, been a judge, or argued an important case – there is still the issue of her age: she’s 60.
60 is fine for eight years as President, but appointing someone to the Court at sixty means either having a lot more faith in the moderation future Republican administrations than I do, or believing there won’t by Republicans in future, which I rather doubt. Clarence Thomas, who appears to make his rulings with the empathy of Genghis Khan on a bad day, was appointed when he was 40. He is younger than Clinton, and he has an excellent chance of still being on the court when Hillary Clinton’s first great-grandchild is born.
I have a lot of respect for Clinton’s two centrist appointees to the court, though I hardly see them as lions of the court like John Paul Stevens. But, assuming Obama wins and maybe even if he doesn’t, at least one and maybe both will retire in the next administration. This is not a time to appoint a justice that doesn’t promise considerable longevity on the court.
Separately, there is the issue of attempting to preserve at least the pious fiction of an apolitical nonpartisan court. Perhaps even aspiring to make it a reality. Ideologies are not, after all, necessarily the same thing as partisan loyalties.
John O
WT, I agree that isn’t the best of ideas from a pure progressive, smart judicial opinion perspective, but politically, I think it makes a lot of sense.
60 is nothing. A lot can happen, and will, in the interim between 60 and retirement.
The point is to win the general election, and if Obama has both Bill and Hillary out there fighting hard for him, it is at least a little difficult to imagine him losing. And I will never, EVER, underestimate the moron racist vote in this country again, so my suggestion is one of pure political practicality.
John O
Besides, wouldn’t Thomas retire if Scalia dies or retires?
He can’t seem to think for himself, so without Nino, I can’t see a reason for Thomas to carry on.
Plus, his odds of a heart attack or stroke are high if he’s still indulging in the porn. :-)
NR
It’s going on over at TalkLeft, too. Jeralyn and BTD have both promised to support Obama now, but their commenters are still overflowing with hate.
On the bright side, though, if you want to see a pro-Hillary site that’s coming around nicely, check out MyDD.
Rick Taylor
The funny (or painful) thing is, from their perspective (or at least judging from BTD), it’s all are fault. If only we Obama supporters had listened to them and been polite, there never would have been so much acrimony. They’re fighting the good fight, trying to pick up the mess we made. Witness Taylor Marsh’s pained laments that of course she was going to vote Democratic, but you people have to understand there’s a lot of anger against Obama now. Gee, I wonder why that might be.
A Different JC
She still has power to do Obama/Democrats some harm but she also has the chance to do a lot of good for the party. And even if we dismiss her let’s not forget her husband. One thing I resented about the Clintons was how they were nearly absent from the 2004 election. I said back then that they needed to be as loud and prominent as Kerry/Edwards, to sell people on the Democratic brand. But most of us realize that they didn’t want to do that so they could set the stage for ’08 (heh heh).
Bill and Hillary stumping loud and long for Obama is an important goal of the party. Bill will especially be important in the south… maybe help with the ’04 Swing States – especially FLORIDA.
Also, after hearing the news about the reformation at the DNC – not taking lobbyist money – I think that the Clintons will be glad not to be in the executive branch under Obama. They *live* for soft money. And being the Senator of one of the richest states in the Union ensures a lucrative lobbyist gravy train.
Hence I don’t see Hillary wanting SCOTUS or VP. She wants to stay in the Senate because that’s where the money is. In fact, I’d bet she’s going to leave Armed Services and try to get on Banking or someother moneymaker…
PanAmerican
JohnO is correct. The majority of those posts are coming from the other side.
Taylor Marsh is now dusting the astroturf posts: THIS COMMENT ABOUT McCAIN HAS BEEN DELETED.
I got no problem with Senator Clinton on the court. Shit happens. Scalia and Thomas are heart attacks waiting to happen and Roberts doesn’t exactly have a clean bill of health.
loquacious mute
He’s making a list checking it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice. Obama is in the house and in control.
Hillary is, off the table.
Can I get an Amen!
Yes! I am so white.
John Cole
All the while failing to realize that the reaction from Obama supporters (and not the Obama campaign) was based on the Clinton campaigns BEHAVIOR, in which most of the deplorable shit came after it was clear she would not win. It was a double whammy. Everything that happened after march 5th was wasted. All the money she spent, all the attacks on Obama, all of it. And all of our reactions, and the Hillary supporters grave offenses based upon our reactions.
And now it is the Obama campaign and Obama supporters who are supposed to “mend fences” and apologize for… winning.
A Different JC
My local library in upstate New York had the Diagram Group book Weapons which I would read for hours in the reference section. Great book (which I eventually bought, the moment Amazon was invented in the 90s).
jibeaux
That link was fabulous.
Oh, man.
Chris Johnson
I just hope he brought a food taster, as clever as he is o_O
Jon H
ADJC wrote: “My local library in upstate New York had the Diagram Group book Weapons which I would read for hours in the reference section”
Yeah, I used to read those kinds of books a lot. Also ‘Castle’ by whatsisname.
The Bannerman was extra-dangerous, because its weapons were listed with ridiculously low 1920’s prices, which seemed affordable to an early-80s 10 year old.
A Different JC
It’s like reading old comic books. “X-ray spex for a dime? A dime?!”
GSD
Is it time for us to start thanking Bush publicly for handing over a superpowered unitary executive to the Denmocratic Party?
One that is above congressional scrutiny, beyond the reach of the media, un-supboenable and able to use the full might of the oval office for political purposes?
-GSD
Just Some Fuckhead
Man, I love Coldplay’s new singles. Both, equally. Duncan slammed Viva la Vida as a “Buggles” rip-off over at Eschaton and everyone knows how fucking cool Duncan is so I’m just practically beside myself trying to figure out does this make me uncool? Should I hate the songs? Did I turn the unhip corner at my birthday in May?
Does anyone else like the songs? Are you cool?
NR
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – the Democratic party needs to get rid of superdelegates. It’s only because of the supers that this primary went on so long. Without the supers out there as a last court of appeal with the power to decide the nomination, Obama would have been declared the presumptive nominee after the Wisconsin primary, when the pledged delegate math became insurmountable for Hillary. There’s a good chance that she would have dropped out then, but even if she hadn’t, she would have been in Huckabee territory at that point.
Look at the Republican primary. In January, it looked like the Republicans were headed for a brokered convention this year. McCain won the nomination with the support of about 1/3 of the GOP electorate. His opponents weren’t happy about it, but they fell in line quickly. Why? Because they had no court of appeal.
John Cole
Figures it has to be the libertarians finally blogging this:
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
What I suspected. Crickets.
Libertarians for Obama
To the extent that the “damsel in distress” image is sexist (and oh, what an extent) yeah, sure.
w vincentz
Act 3, Scene 4
Characters: Hillary and Barack
Setting: a sleazy motel near the strip mall/tonight
“The Secret Meeting”
Action
Hillary is seen pacing in front of the door, ravishing in a pink pant suit styled sleep wear, semi-see through.
Her anticipation builds. Close up of expectant wrinkled face.
There’s a knock on the door.
Hillary: Hi Barack. So, nice to see you.
They embrace.
She whispers in his ear: Bill’s out of town. It’s just you and me.
Barack: OK Hillary. Wazzup?
Hillary: I’m wearing this pink one just for you. Like it?
Barack: As a matter of fact I do. Michelle has one just like it.
Hillary: You’re kidding me. Does hers have these peek-a-boos? It’s from Fredericks. It’s so comfy. You like?
Barack: Well, it fits you nicely. It doesn’t stretch too much over you hips and your butt doesn’t look nearly as big as it does in the yellow pant suit.
Hillary: Thanks. I knew you’d notice. So…here’s why I asked you to meet me. Did I tell you that Bill is out of town?
Barack: Yes, I think you mentioned it.
Hillary wiggles her eyebrows and drapes herself over the back of the couch. (alluring look/see Mae West archive tape)
Hillary: So, Barack, what do you want to do? It will be our secret.
Barack: Do you want to do a shot and a beer?
Hillary: That’s not exactly what I had in mind.
Barack: Hillz, just tell me. I’m tired of guessing games.
Hillary: Do you think we can keep this secret?
Barack: Keep what secret?
Hillary: You know…about us.
Barack: What the fuck are you talking about?
Hillary: Michelle will never learn of our secret, nor will Bill.
Barack: What the fuck are you talking about?
Hillary turns off the lights. She strikes a match and lights a candle. Her eye lashes flutter in the semi darkness. She looks at Barack and in a husky voice says:
I’ve waited so long for this, Barack.
Barack: What the fuck are you talking about?
Outside a car drives up.
Hillary: OH SHIT! It’s Bill! He’s home early! Quick Barack! Hide in the closet!
Barack: What the fuck are you talking about?
Fade to dark. Cut. Print.
John O
You know what the worst thing about liking Coldplay is?
Having to tell your parents you’re gay.
*rimshot*
(I don’t actually hate Coldplay, but they’re not on my fave list.)
A Different JC
To be honest, I like the idea of super-delegates AND proportional delegation (as opposed to the GOP winner-take-all). The GOP method has given them a flawed candidate that only 1/3 voted for (and even after McCain clinched the nomination, 1/4 of the votes in many states went against him).
The biggest change I’d make is to strip “superdelegate status” from all the jokers in the DNC and keep the Senators/Representatives superdelegates.
And while you’re right that the Democratic race went so long because there was always the “court of appeal” I think the only reason why the Supers didn’t stop the charade back in March (after OH/TX, when it was clear she had no chance) was because Hillary was the wife of the most popular living Democrat and they didn’t want to anger/disrespect her.
In another circumstance, let’s say it was 2004 and Kerry had Obama’s numbers and Edwards had Hillary’s, the supers would have swooped in and shut the machine down.
In fact we can use 1984 as a model, with the superdelegate acting to clarify the nomination between Mondale and Hart. Mondale didn’t have enough delegates to win outright and the supers came in and gave it to him, shutting out Hart.
Just Some Fuckhead
That was awesome w vincentz. The suspense was really building terrifically. I swear I was ready to fall over dead laughing when she leaned in at the end and whispered huskily, “I want you to be my Vice President.”
Conservatively Liberal
Some humor from the turd mine known as Hillaryis44:
This, from someone who claims to be a 90 year old man. This is almost as bad as the poster there by the name of “Kostner” who said that ‘Alcee Hastings is a strong woman’ yesterday.
Dem shore iz sum stoopeed ratfukkers ovah deah.
Just Some Fuckhead
Haha. Ma wouldn’t understand a word I said and I’m too lazy to dig dad up.
I never cared to much for them too much up until these singles. They seem different.
Dennis - SGMM
I don’t think that it ever entered their pointy little heads that this weapon would fall into the hands of a Democrat. I’m grateful that it looks to fall into the hands of someone who will unmake it – hopefully. Reading history tends to make a person skeptical about the outcomes of good intentions.
w vincentz
Just Some Fuck Head,
That ending you created would work.
I had contemplated ending it with Barack entering the closet only to find that it was already filled with Mark Penn, Wolfie, and a very drunk Terry McA.
They all shout in unison: What the fuck?
dr. bloor
I’d pay cash money for one of your wedding invitations.
Conservatively Liberal
I wouldn’t mind the supers if they could be prevented from giving their vote (or any indication of preference) before their state does. Hillary (or anyone else) starting out with a super delegate advantage is not really fair to anyone IMO. You know the reason they endorsed was to lend to the aura of inevitability and to position themselves for an early spot on the gravy train of the (perceived) victor.
At a minimum, they should have to wait for their state to be held for them to endorse whoever way they want to, not binding them to their state’s voters choice. Maybe have them all wait until the primaries are over, then have them polled to indicate their choice then to prevent a convention fight.
Anything would be better than the clusterfuck we just went through.
loquacious mute
Off subject, but does anyone else think Pops McCain has T Rex arms?
I’m sorry he’s just creepy.
rob!
also OT, but i just read this and it made me jump for joy:
i’m the biggest Dylan fan, and he rarely speaks out on stuff like this. i’m just totally, completely jazzed.
A Different JC
There may be a website out there with the right info, but IIRC the supers she began with were (1) the NY congressional delegation (which is a gimme anyway) and (2) a dumpload of DNC types.
I’ll look for the numbers, but its even possible to say that if didn’t have the DNC supers, then Obama may have won earlier. Lemme see what I can find.
Conservatively Liberal
That would be funny! Maybe he has a business card? I bet his phone number is unlisted. I bet his boss has fun hunting him down at work:
Brachiator
Senator Clinton is without a doubt intelligent. However, given her stubborn refusal to disavow her Iraq vote, one has to wonder whether she might possess the temperament to be a good jurist. Also, her being one of the nation’s top lawyers is almost on par with Harriet Mier’s accomplishments:
Oh yeah, and Miers has not been admitted to the Washington DC bar.
Besides, does anyone really want to see Hillary appointed to a lifetime position?
Very interesting observation. Similarly, Senator Clinton appeared to make serious mis-steps whenever Obama managed to gain some conspicuous public recognition from the Kennedys. Hillary’s RFK gaffe, for example, closely followed on the news that Teddy asked Obama to fill in for him in giving the commencement address at Wesleyan.
And so, Caroline Kennedy on Obama’s VP search team? The ultimate Jedi mind trick.
Cleopatra had a harem?
A Different JC
Superdelegates. Wiki has a promising article (whose URL is too long to post here), and an even cooler map! Check this out. It shows which states Obama/Clinton won based on supers and it makes it look like an Obama landslide.
Conservatively Liberal
That one is a touchy issue with myself and many others. I don’t care one whit for the politics of McCain or his party, but he carries wounds from his incarceration and torture in Vietnam. Right or wrong regarding the Vietnam War, his injuries were incurred in service to our country and he should be honored for that.
Please don’t go there with that line of attack on him. Not good. Nope. We are above that.
Warren Terra
loquacious mute, I’m going to assume you are unaware rather than trolling. McCain’s arms are that way because of injuries inflicted in ejecting his plane in Vietnam and the poor medical care and torture he later received in captivity.
Can’t we rag on his ideas, which merit it, instead?
John Cole
Clinton’s problem has never been her intellect, it is that she is one of the most tone deaf politicians I have ever seen. She has succeeded in large part due to her keen intellect, sheer indefatigable willpower and work ethic, her connections, her husband’s charm and the status that his electoral success afforded her. What has constantly been her problem is that she is horribly tin eared. Just look at all the gaffes that plagued her this election cycle- the rfk remark, the tuzla nonsense and her refusal to correct the record when clearly wrong- instead lashing out at Sinbad, the hard working whites bit, her unwillingness to admit to error with the Iraq War, her vote for AUMF, her full-on frontal assaults of Obama in the debates (thinking in made her look “tough” when all it did was horrify other Democrats because she looked like Rove), greenlighting the nonsense from her campaign, her not recognizing this is a change election, and on and on and on.
She is, quite simply, tone deaf. I am surprised more people have not picked up on this yet, because it is so clear. Additionally, narcissism and a willingness to believe positive press and also surrounding herself with sycophants are liabilities.
John Cole
His arm issues are from being tortured. Knock it off.
Conservatively Liberal
She was an insatiable lesbian.
A Different JC
More about the Supers from the Wiki article (go to List_of_Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_superdelegates%2C_2008): The total number of supers is hard to measure, especially with the MI/FL half-vote stuff, but for our purposes I’ll divide up the total list into two groups Elders (current and ex-officeholders) and Hacks (the DNC roster and what are called “unpledged add-ons”)
According to Wiki, there are 823.5 total supers, divided into roughly 332 Elders and *491* Hacks.
Take away 491 from 2117 (the current magic number) and Obama would have needed 1626 to win.
So the big question, and this will take more time than I have tonight, when would Obama have gotten 1626 votes if we subtract all the Hack supers?
Just Some Fuckhead
See, I’m not digging the sex angle. I mean, I like most of the incidental stuff, outfit, mood, etc. but when I think Hillary Clinton, I think batshit-fucking-insane. So I think that’s where I’d go with it, personally.
I’m a little uncomfortable with the notion that it’s okay to attack women we don’t like in a sexual way. Now, more enlightened folks would say it’s just as bad to attack her appearance or her intelligence or her sanity but I’m not sure how different that is from attacks on men for the same reasons. We’ve all had a blast attacking John McCain for the way he looks, how stupid or insane he is or how old he is.
Now, the “old” thing may be out of bounds for other reasons but I’ll worry about that when I’m old. Right now, they just need to stop blocking the fucking aisles in Walmart and give way politically to the next generation of voters so we can fix the mess they’ve made voting for pathological asshats.
Hope I made some sense.
Warren Terra
JC, your math is wrong, because you take away half the hacks – the winner needs a majority of them, not all of them.
Your more general point – that superdelegates be restricted to some rationally identifiable set of distinguished people (like Governors, Representatives, Presidents, and past nominees, for example) seems entirely sound.
olvr
And if that doesn’t convince you, consider this: The only way McCain wins this election is if he gets a substantial sympathy vote out of suburban/soccer/security moms arising out of people making fun of his physical limitations.
Conservatively Liberal
You would have to subtract 491 from the total number of delegates, and then divide that result in half (+1) to arrive at the new total needed to win.
Warren Terra
Er, I see I wordo’d “Presidents” for “Senators”. I’m guessing people coulda worked out my dumb mistake for themselves, but there it is. Sorry.
A Different JC
Story of my life. I see the error, we should take away 491 from 3-thousand-whatever (or 245 from 2117, or something)
What I’m trying to find is a website that lays out the day-to-day accrual of the delegates for each candidate, and when Obama would have reached whatever the non-Hack magic number would have been.
And my hypotheis is that Obama would have clinched this much earlier had the Hack supers not been there. I could be wrong (cf. math, above)
Just Some Fuckhead
What I’d like you to find out is how American is Samoa really? Do they all wear flag pins and work as hard as white people?
AkaDad
I hear this periodically, and it’s clearly sexist.
Beej
Obama is so articulate and so obviously super-intelligent that it’s easy to forget he came up in Chicago politics. Articulate and intelligent will get you exactly nowhere in Chicago politics unless you are also a streetfighter. This guy is a streetfighter.
A Different JC
Obama’s presumptive running mate (see the Youtube I linked above) is Samoan, so he would give a answer better than I.
Brachiator
Before the primary campaign began, I remarked to a colleague that Senator Clinton might lack her husband’s keen political instincts, and also that she had rarely had to wage a tough political campaign (Rudy G dropped out because of illness and spared Hillary a tough fight for her Senate seat) and so never had to develop the skills and that come naturally to a seasoned pol.
It was really sad to see my worst case scenario confirmed by the ineptness of Senator Clinton’s campaign. By the way, in the light of some of the Clinton claims about media bias against them, it is interesting to see how many reporters noted Hillary’s mis-steps early on and yet kept quiet about them until their post-primary analyses.
But the larger answer to your question is easily found amidst Senator Clinton’s most devoted acolytes. Once they convinced themselves that Hillary was a strong, powerful woman ™ who was undone by sexism, then her particular failings or weaknesses as an individual or as a politician simply disappeared and she was transformed into Saint Hillary, Martyr to Perpetual Misogyny.
Rome Again
It isn’t that we couldn’t find it, it’s that when I tried to show the video to TZ the bandwidth had been exceeded and it was “currently not available”.
Just Some Fuckhead
No, actually people don’t vote for the candidate they think is being picked on. There may be some folks who claim that was their reason but they had other reasons almost exclusively related to tribal identication.
How they choose to define tribe is the wildcard but the helpless picked-on tribe isn’t a popular one.
The pundits who said HRC supporters who supported her because of all the shit they themselves personally endured were dead wrong. They missed the obvious tribe: These supporters were in the fighter tribe because they had fought the unfairness of it all and now HRC was.
Jess
Yep–that’s what I thought all along. I’m glad we have confirmation.
Rome Again
All of these bloggers who want to still be able to blog now that Hillary has lost have switched alliances and pissed of those who they’ve whipped into a frenzy for so long.
I had an email exchange with Jeralyn yesterday where I congratulated her for her accomplishment of creating such division, she wrote back how proud she was of what she had done and told me to get the chip off my shoulder. I then wrote her back and stated I didn’t have a chip on my shoulder but she indeed DID have a problem with uncontrollable posters. She never returned a reply, clearly she got the message.
Reading Taylor Marsh last night, I see the posters have taken matters into their own hands and have created blog refuge of their own so they don’t have to gather under the professional bloggers turned Obama supporters anymore. These hardcore Clinton supporters are not disbanding (except on MyDD), they are taking their brand of crazy underground.
ye ye ye
@beej
i wholeheartedly agree. it also helped that he got his ass handed to him in that ’01 us congressional race. made him a better man and candidate.
Rome Again
Of course this is what happened, and they are still doing it without the help of the Hillary bloggers.
The proud bloggers whipped up a frenzy and now these people are not able to be reasoned with, the crazies are (as I stated in my last post) now going underground, left to their own devices and looking for solace in the cyber-arms of operation chaos spoofs.
I would have never guessed when I was fighting Repubs just a few years ago, side by side with my fellow Dems, that some of them would choose to become cyber vigilantes against the presumed 2008 Democratic nominee.
A Different JC
Do you remeber anything remotely like this happening since 1980? I mean, did Hart voters boycott Mondale? Paul-Simonites voting for Bush over Dukakis? Dean-iacs boycotting Kerry?
These people are crazy, but lets see what happens in a week or two. Give the crazies a week of shiva to come back to being Democrats… the rest of them were just crypto-GOPs and just didn’t know it.
Rome Again
I also have to admit, as someone very interested in sociology, I’m fascinated by all this (as much as I deplore it) and can’t stop watching and studying this phenomenon.
Medicine Man
The GOP is using an electoral rope a dope strategy. Just when we think McCain is weak, he’ll come out super strong.
Rome Again
No, I don’t remember anything even remotely like this since I’ve been online. Before that I was getting the daily news just like everyone else and was not plugged in to any of the movement (I admit, I was not politically tuned in). I think this is internet created, without the internet, I don’t think you’d see anything like this.
The internet creates a lot of opportunity to connect and network and make opinions known; but I guess that for every good thing it does, it also has it’s equal reactionary bad thing that can happen too. This is unprecedented to me.
Just Some Fuckhead
They definitely roped themselves a dope.
Rome Again
John McCain strong?
Momentarily before he loses balance and grabs for his walker, right?
JubJub
He is instead secretly meeting Hillary at her house.
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
J Bean
That coronary artery bypass was a pretty clever subterfuge for setting the stage for ’08, wasn’t it? If Bill had been a good Democrat, he would have just kept his mouth shut about the chest pain until after the campaign.
I voted for Obama in the primary because I have never been impressed with Hillary’s political skills and because I knew there was no way she would get a fair break from the media. John’s right, she does have a tin ear, but I’m really tired of all of this demonization. She’s smart, knowledgeable and hard working. She made a horrible mistake on the AUMF, but the rest of the crap that gets flung at her is completely unjustified.
Rome Again
Reading the Hillary blogs trying to walk it back, it seems to me that they might have had a shot if they had explained how Michigan and Florida were not real and valid primaries, but since they didn’t, that, it seems to me is where they totally lost control of these people. The bloggers lost thier ability to re-educate their readers since the Michigan contest when they reported the results were a fair example of votes.
A Different JC
According to the Wiki (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_clinton#Personal_health) Clinton had chest pains in September 2004, and surgery a few days later. That’s what I remember – that from when Kerry clinched it in the Spring until whenever neither Bill nor non-heart-attack-havin’-Hillary were pretty absent from the trail. And I’m not retconning; this was how I felt about it back in ’04 (I’ll see if I can dig up some blog entries to prove it).
You’re right. I won’t call her a demon. I will call her a bad Democrat, a bad politician, an egomaniac, and an anti-Feminist.
Rome Again
She ran a negative campaign and refused to admit that she did it on purpose. She said the GOP nominee was ready to be C-in-C but her Democratic opponent wasn’t. She lied about sniper fire. She used sexism and victimization as ways to gain empathy, and she didn’t stop her supporters (Geraldine Ferraro is a prime example) of using racist attacks. She deserves much more than you’ve seen and she’s lucky we’re sensible enough to not do what we could if we were not supporting a graceful candidate.
Rome Again
and apologies for misquoting you, my right click isn’t working right now (I HATE VISTA!).
A Different JC
I think my favorite was when, even after Indiana, she was bringing up RFK’s assassination. What a charmer.
And it was an honest mistake, she said. It was because poor ol’ Teddy was sick! Even though the 1968 primaries have NOTHING in common with the 2008 primaries… and the 1980 (Kennedy) primaries did. So why blame Teddy for the assassination talk when (a) if she were really thinking of Teddy she’d use the more apt 1980 race, and (b) she had said the comment a half-dozen times before over the past few months.
But she doesn’t deserve our scorn! Not after bringing up assassination and trying to escape blame by pinning it on a dying Kennedy brother.
Conservatively Liberal
I have been checking out the WHOIS info on the various ‘Hillary or McCain’ web sites that are popping up, and one interesting trend is that so far every single one of them hide their ownership. I would think that anyone who supports Hillary enough to run a web site that promotes her (or McCain) would be more than proud enough to let people know who they are. It would at least add a tiny bit of credibility to one of these sites, but every single one I have run through so far prefer to hide their identity.
Support like that seems pretty questionable because of the Operation Chaos Ratfucker Brigade, and you would think that the Clinton supporters would be smart enough to seriously consider this. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t join up with any site like that without knowing who was running it and if they were a real Clinton supporter. Blind acceptance of a web site by real Clinton supporters because the site and its ‘members’ happen to reflect how they ‘feel about things is a really stupid move on their part. If they are too stupid to see the possibility for abuse by the ratfuckers, then there is little anyone can do to ‘save’ them.
If they want to act like lemmings, let them. But I intend to keep a close eye on them because I am interested in actual numbers. It is surprising that quite a few of the web site owners are running three, four and maybe more separate sites that are focused on taking down Obama or sucking up to Hillary supporters and getting them to vote for McCain. The same goes for the ‘real’ Clinton supporters; there seems to be a lot of cross-membership and cross-posting between the different sites by the same people. Same messages, same people, different sites, like the MyDD flooding that ‘linfar’ and others at Hillaryis44 would organize to keep the anti-Obama/pro-Hillary diaries on the rec list. I have a feeling that a lot of the ‘members’ are ratfuckpuppets that are used to bolster the numbers of people ‘against Obama/for Hillary’.
Smart people would pool resources and build a movement. These people are approaching this all backwards, and that is why I suspect that most of them are ratfuck sites. They want discord and they are sowing it everywhere they can. Hillary has put out more than enough bullshit so that the ratfuckers have all the fertilizer they need to keep the rabid Hillary supporters happy.
Now exactly who is responsible for this mess and who has to try and clean it up? I guess we find out Saturday.
loquacious mute
5 months should be enough time to get them back but we’ll have our work cut out for us, because we all know, hell hath no fury like 18 million woman scorned. Well maybe not quite that many, but a lot anyways.
So, here’s the thing most of Hillary’s supporters believe in choice. Just tell them that a vote for, I don’t give a shit about woman’s rights McCreepy is a betrayal of Hillary whose whole life has been devoted to a women’s right to choose. So if McCreepy gets his decaying hands on supreme court then we can kiss roe v. wade goodbye. Let them know McCreepy is no friend of theirs, but a colossal misogynist whose only goal in life is to subjugate women.
Oh and for good measure throw in the stuff about how he abandoned his first wife, after she was tragically injured in an auto accident while waiting for her man to come home from a POW camp. Good stuff. But remember keep it simple these gals are angry and you want to get in and get out as quickly as possible.
My guess is that eventually these hens will come home to roost.
Rome Again
CL, you and I agree 99.9999999999% of the time on the issues (this is the first exception, sorry) but can you cite a reason for thinking her supporters should know better?
They are using emotion and victimization to guide their thinking, they are looking for empathy and for that reason they are very vulnerable to anyone who talks sweetly to them.
They want sweet talk, and thus that is the reason why they are pissed at us, because we tried to reign them in when they went wrong (we could do no other thing than piss them off without jumping the shark ourselves, they did this on their own) and are falling in love with those who would push them off a cliff (and they will, watch).
Rome Again
This line of reasoning has been used at several times. It doesn’t work. The reason it doesn’t work is because some GOP spoof speaks up and says “I don’t care, I’m voting for McCain” and then the true Hillary supporters fall in line, feeling it’s okay to take a stand since someone else of their kind did. The problem is they are playing with people who ARE NOT THEIR KIND.
These Hillbots are in fact acting like automatons, they are followers, and the GOP spoofs are leaders, and the game is set until the automatons smarten up (not likely as long as the spoofs keep up the flowery supportive talk, which they will, until the day after the election).
Conservatively Liberal
Because they should be using their heads instead of their hearts? Because they are generally older adults who should have some common sense and an ability to use it?
I know, I am asking too much. No, really. Out of all of her real supporters out there, I know the majority of them are going to do what Democrats have always done. Get behind the party candidate. They are the mature, pragmatic thinking people.
What we are dealing with are the core of her supporters, the nutty, crunchy center of it. These are people who lack the maturity to see how childish they are acting. They are running around crying about their poor feelings, how everyone did them and Hillary wrong and how everyone owes them a lollipop, an apology, a pat on the head and for Obama to concede to Hillary.
Every demographic has its whiners and troublemakers, and we are seeing Hillary’s thin slice of that segment of the pie in action.
Martin
Obama won the pledged majority with Oregon – 5/20.
That was a marker watched closely.
loquacious mute
Maybe some but not all. Many of my girfriends, were ready to not vote for Hillary and sit out the election and some where even ready to vote for McCreepy as well if they took the election from Obama. However, once we actually realized what that meant we decided we would hold our nose or try and remember what is good and kind about Hillary and cast our vote for her if it came to that.
Why not approach them in the same way the GOP hacks do. Try a little tenderness and sisterhood. Look, I have faith that many will turn on McCreepy as he cannot hide who he really is for very long, and us pro choice gals will be screaming his sins from the mountain tops and I even imagine we will be able to win the hearts and minds of a few GOP fembots. And if all that fails, well then that Obama is one smooth talkin fella and even some of the most hardcore hillbots will eventually begin to thaw.
loquacious mute
Maybe some but not all. Many of my girfriends, were ready to not vote for Hillary and sit out the election and some where even ready to vote for McCreepy as well if they took the election from Obama. However, once we actually realized what that meant we decided we would hold our nose or try and remember what is good and kind about Hillary and cast our vote for her if it came to that.
Why not approach them in the same way the GOP hacks do. Try a little tenderness and empathy. Get all Bill Clinton on them and feel their pain.
I have faith that many will turn on McCreepy as he cannot hide who he really is for very long, and us pro choice gals will be screaming his sins from the mountain tops and I even imagine we will be able to win the hearts and minds of a few GOP fembots. And if all that fails, well then that Obama is one smooth talkin fella and even some of the most hardcore hillbots will eventually begin to thaw.
loquacious mute
Maybe some but not all. Many of my girfriends, were ready to not vote for Hillary and sit out the election and some where even ready to vote for McCreepy as well if they took the election from Obama. However, once we actually realized what that meant we decided we would hold our nose or try and remember what is good and kind about Hillary and cast our vote for her if it came to that.
Why not approach them in the same way the GOP hacks do. Try a little tenderness and empathy. Get all Bill Clinton on them and feel their pain.
I have faith that many will turn on McCreepy as he cannot hide who he really is for very long, and us pro choice gals will be screaming his sins from the mountain tops and I even imagine we will be able to win the hearts and minds of a few GOP fembots. And if all that fails, well then that Obama is one smooth talkin fella and even some of the most hardcore hillbots will eventually begin to thaw.
loquacious mute
Sorry my computer went all Hillary on me. :)
Rome Again
Yeah, this is how smart they are, from Taylor Marsh’s comments:
Idiots!
Rome Again
#1: I don’t feel empathy, I feel disdain
#2: I am not the one who needs to change, they are
#3: My message is not going to get through to them, it is them who needs to accept what they believe (the MI/FL contests were fair/robbed of delegates/etc) is incorrect
#4: as a woman, I abhor having to treat someone like a delicate flower to get them to listen to me. These women are not feminists, they are abuse victims and I will not enable them or their behavior.
#5: despite what many may believe, the are scorned in their own minds and they will not budge.
loquacious mute
I have to wonder if some of these aren’t GOP.
I am not necessarily saying I do not feel the same way a lot of the time. I was furious at Hillary for using Fox news and Rove’s tactics to stir her base and attack Obama’s electibility, and I have not at all forgiven her that. If Obama decides to put her on the ticket I will be pissed but I will get over it.
If some of these woman are not convinced after a time that voting for McCreepy is a vote against themselves and all they supposedly believe in then fuck’em. However, if some do return home then their fanatical ability to spew hate will be helpful in our fight against McCreepy.:)
Rome Again
LM, the ones who were ready to return to the fold have already done so, I am afraid. Unless something huge happens in the near future to jolt them out of their fantasy, they will either vote for McCain or sit it out (I am not afraid of Obama’s chances either way, but, I fear for the direction of the Democratic party in the future, I dont’ think this is a chasm that will be easily mended).
I just did a perusal of the Hillary sites, and:
1. They are touting a civil suit in the US District Court of South Florida to overturn the decision of the rules committee (some of Hillary’s multimillionaire supporters are plaintiffs)
2. They are so pissed at Kerry for endorsing Obama they are trying to unseat him now
3. They are stating that some Hillary superdelegates recweived death threats
4. They are pushing polls that say McCain is beating Obama
They are lost I think.
loquacious mute
Rome Again, I checked it out and those am some crazy bitches. Even scarier them some of the stuff the so called smarty pants at NRO are bloging.
Some of them have to be GOP plants as stated previously, but clearly they have lost whatever reason they had left. Kind of like the you tube tranny who kept screaming to leave Britney alone. I imagine any day there will be one for Hillary.
Man I am not sure I can sleep now. That creeped me out almost as much as McCreepy himself.
Conservatively Liberal
Naah, I think there will be some stragglers who are going to hold out hope that their kicking and screaming about sitting it out or voting for McCain is going to somehow help Hillary. It may sound delusional to us, but it makes sense to them now because they are angry. The ones that cool off and think for more than five minutes about what supporting McCain really means will sheepishly, and probably quietly, return to the fold. But there is no doubt that there are people who will refuse to vote for Obama, and in my mind most of these people are the closet (and not closet) racists of the party.
There is no helping these people, and if you catch the racism in their messages and call them on it, they will just deny it and move on to some other place where people won’t call them on it. Or worse, agree with them. These people should be dead to the rest of the party and garner no sympathy. Let the Republicans have them. The Democrats weren’t afraid to pitch most of the racists in the 60’s by supporting civil rights, and that is just fine with me today too.
To add to RA’s list of what the Hillary crazies (my apologies to the sane Hillary supporters) are saying:
5: Hillary is being pushed in to conceding by the men of the party.
6: Hillary is a traitor for asking her big dollar donors to contribute to Obama.
7: Form a group to work towards voting out officeholders (super delegates) who ‘turned’ on Hillary or supported Obama.
8: Form a new political party (I really hope they do this! All of the crazies and ratfuckers in one party!)
9: They are donating to McCain and encouraging others to do the same.
And in a post at Hillaryis44:
Totally nuts. Here is one of the points from their ‘action plan’:
Talk about going off the deep end. Sheesh! That is about as loony sounding as you can get without grabbing the kids and heading for the underground bunker in the back yard.
Tom W.
Hey Cole – walk back this line to my blog, I dare ya:
“…all these people who spent months convincing their readers that Hillary is a victim and that the Obama campaign and supporters are evil evil evil.”
I was a strong Clinton supporter, and will happily back Obama. Your snide comment is entirely inaccurate and pejorative. What the hell’s the matter with you?
Sleeper
The retort I see at TL all the time is that appeals to logic, i.e. Roe v. Wade, Iraq, tax cuts, etc., is just “blackmail.” And that’s it, no further thought required, and they tune you out.
And what’s most annoying is how egregious their projection of this is. I have never, ever, ever seen even the most annoying Obama follower talk about their candidate in such hagiographic and adulatory tones as they talk about their gal Hillary. And they’ve totally blinded themselves to it.
Notorious P.A.T.
Oh, yeah, Hillary has such good judgment. Like her vote to authorize force against Iraq, for instance.
linda
bwahahahaha. oh man, i really am impressed by his continuing improvements and gamesmanship he’s displaying. i just loved him at the st paul convention center tuesday … dems haven’t engaged in this kind of style, well, in forever…
Notorious P.A.T.
But he’s one of the 100 most powerful people in the world! So he must be smart!
Wilfred
he would be a fool to offer her VP. Nice epitaph on Clinton here
Krista
And there is then the charming sentiment I once read on there, when someone mentioned that a vote for McCain was a vote to basically eliminate Roe v. Wade. The response basically boiled down to, “So what? That’ll teach all of the women who betrayed Hilary. Let ’em suffer for awhile, and they’ll realize their mistake.”
In a way, they’re not like the victims, they’re like the abusers: “I didn’t want to do this to you, but you made me. Don’t you see, it’s YOUR fault that I had to vote for McCain.”
The Other Steve
Krista – It’s amazing how many abusers there are in this world. The Republicans were saying the same thing numerous times, for example their Nuclear Option, and so on.
Something is wrong with our culture that this is acceptable. If I behaved like this my grandmother would not have approved.
The Other Steve
WOO HOO!!!!!!
Redstate 3.0 is in BETA!
The layout sucks, but at least it’s clean.
Dennis - SGMM
From the look of the women who were supporting Clinton at the RBC meeting I’d say they were a few years past being concerned about choice.
passerby
Thanks for bringing that observation, I think you hit it.
When I try to wrap my mind around the shallow mentality of the TLers or TaylorMarshers the only conclusion I can reach is that they are operating from a purely emotional base.
The “look what you made me do” mentality is petty and juvenile which properly describes a bully’s behavior.
Victim becomes abuser. Yep.
T
Xenos
As far as bar exams go, intelligence has little to do with it, at least for graduates of top law schools. You have to sign up 6-9 months in advance, and need to cram like hell for at least six weeks in order to pass. And many excellent law schools, especially Yale, do a poor job at preparing their students for passing bar exams.
A lot of very smart people underestimate how much time it takes, or otherwise have something come up in their personal lives that does not leave them enough time to study. No biggee.
..
CJ
This is a long thread, so if this has been mentioned already, please forgive.
I thought the idea was to give BILL Clinton the Supreme Court appointment (there is historical precedent) and to get Hillary elected as the majority leader in the Senate.
This would get Bill out of the way and give Hillary the power she craves. Putting Hillary on the Supreme court is a bit bizarre. She wouldn’t be able to downshift that fast. The same goes for Bill, really, but at least he has more free time.
CJ
Mary
I’ve seen some Clinton supporters argue that supporting Obama because of Roe v. Wade isn’t a convincing argument at all.
1) Obama doesn’t use absolutely perfect rhetoric about abortion rights, therefore his support is soft. His NARAL 100% rating is suspect because NARAL is suspect. Therefore, there’s not a lot of difference between McCain and Obama on this issue.
2) They think that the Republicans have been using the prospect of overturning Roe v. Wade as an eternal enticement to the religious right, but that they would never actually try to dump it because they would lose the women’s vote forever.
3) I have even seen the argument that if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it won’t make abortion illegal, but will just turn the matter over to the states, and the fight will just have to be taken to the state level, that’s all. (Yeah. Good luck with that.)
So there’s this odd cognitive dissonance here, in which the decades long support for Roe v. Wade among feminists is now shrugged off because we’re fucked if either Obama or McCain get in, or the decision isn’t that crucial, or it’s so crucial that no one anywhere would ever do anything to threaten it.
I’m letting these comments go. I think it would be ridiculously counterproductive to get into arguments with these women right now. Either they’ll shift to Obama some time in the near future or they won’t. I think the odds are good that enough will switch, especially as Clinton starts to work with Obama. I’ve seen some softening of attitudes over the past couple of days, so I have hope.
Krista
But many of them would have daughters, would they not? I just cannot understand the mentality of a professed feminist who would endanger the reproductive rights of other women out of spite. And the only thing that I keep coming back to is that if they do vote for McCain, they will refuse to take responsibility for their actions, saying that Obama’s supporters made them do it.
To which I cry a hearty, “Bullshit!” What the fuck kind of message are you sending about female empowerment when you won’t even take responsibility for your fucking vote?
The Other Steve
talkleft is off in nutty world today.
Rome Again
Absolutely, unfortune as it may be though, I don’t think this was ever about empowerment, to me it seems this was more about being loud mouthed victimized crybabies. (Think BJ snark dripping with emotion and accepted addiction reinforcement).
PeterJ
Red State 3.0 – Still Stupid.
Red State 3.0 – New Version, New Crap.
Dennis - SGMM
They seem to have wrapped themselves around themselves. There is no room for the concerns of others.
Jimmm
Reminds me of the scene in Goldfinger where the titular villain gathers all his colleagues-in-crime at his aerie … and then gasses them.
Obama shoulda had the plane sent spiraling down into Lake Ontario.
PanAmerican
Bill shoved everyone else out of the way and grabbed the wheel.
Upon this, one has to remark that men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge.
Keeping Hillary in the race drained their $$$, kept her off a third party ballot and denied her the VP slot.
zzyzx
That’s a good thing though. In a country of 300,000,000 people, there will be a few hundred thousand people that will believe anything. The problem is when they infect the mainstream. Let them whip themselves into a frenzy in private . If their supersecret sites are hard to find, they won’t make converts and it’ll pretty much be like they don’t exist.
Rome Again
I hope you’re right, unfortunately they are also getting more organized already it seems as reported above they are creating a voting bloc called “Party Unity My Ass” and the also have the ability to congregate on a site called Clinton Dems. I also found a site linked to Clinton Dems that has a blogspot for creating a million woman march in Denver during the convention, but so far they only have two supporters. It seems when I was reading Taylor Marsh though, that most were flocking to smaller sites and I hope it remains an underground operation for a long, long time.
Crazies on TL have now decided to start calling the nominating process not just unfair, but “illegal”.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Woof, long thread. Some thoughts:
Yes, the Republicans are definitely taking a dive in ’08. They’ve looked at the mountain of shit left behind by the Bush administration and want nothing to do with it. Better to sit back and heckle the Democrats for not being able to clean it up in the first 100 days. Then they can come back in ’12 and say, “see, the Democrats are just as incompetent as we are, but at least we’ll cut your taxes again, some more.”
I mean, seriously, there aren’t any young, dynamic conservatives who can truly carry on the legacy of St. Ron in the current Republican party? The best they could do was McThuselah, Grandpa Fred, Flipper, Crazy Ol’ Ron, and Rudy? No way. They know they’re going back into the wilderness for a while, and holding back their A game.
Iraq is irrevocably fucked. We can’t afford to stay, and if we leave the place will devolve into total chaos. There is no good alternative. The next CinC is going to step on a geopolitical land mine regardless of what he does.
While I’d love to see Hills as an Associate Justice just for the nationwide conniption fit it would inspire, I’m sure there are far more qualified candidates who would also provide an ideological counterweight to Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas. I’m sure Harry Reid loves all the talk about making Hills Majority Leader. As for Bill, make him Ambassador to the U.N.
McThuselah’s age is fair game; he’s older than St. Ron was in 1980, and I think Reagan was in far better physical condition for his age than McCain is now. Had Reagan not been shot, his second term probably wouldn’t have been such a circus. McThuselah’s record is also fair game; there’s still that Keating 5 thing. I would not pick on his physical limitations, though; that was due to being tortured while a POW.
The MUP fucking rocks. He has potential to be a truly great President, provided he never buys into his own bullshit and Congress (and the people) hold him accountable for his actions. The great failure of the Bush administration was that we let the little bastard get away with anything he wanted. Imagine if he’d had the ability (and the staff) that Obama has.
Now, according to the Preview That Lies, that’s relatively well-formatted. God knows what it’ll look like after I hit Submit, though.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Yup, Preview lies. Grump. Why allow certain tags in the Preview if they’re going to be ignored later?
SamFromUtah
Obama shoulda had the plane sent spiraling down into Lake Ontario.
Now, now. I know you were kidding, but that’s a bit much.
A quick trip to Shiny Object Land would do just as well, and even better if it’s Shiny Object and Barbecue Land.
You know, I may book a trip there myself!
crw
I agree completely. I would much rather see Neal Katyal as a nominee to the Supreme Court. He represented Salim Hamdam in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld and has impeccable civil liberties chops. And he clerked for Breyer. He would be a much needed voice against the fascist faction of the court.
crw
I’ve seen this a few times and I want to comment. *It is categorically false that the GOP has no superdelegates.* In fact they do have superdelegates. They just keep quiet about them. They’re called “Unpledged RNC delegates” and can vote any way they please. That the GOP lines up quickly behind a nominee has much more to do with their winner-take-all primaries and the much more top down, authoritarian nature of the party. This year, I think it’s going to be a major impediment for them. They haven’t had a long primary to build ground operations in all 50 states, and McCain was never thoroughly tested in a tough campaign.
A Different JC
This is a crazy long thread, with a lot of good separate topics. I wanted to thank Rome for this analysis because I think it’s an important dynamic going on here. The “victim” thing is probably what annoys us here the most but at least I didn’t have the conscious knowledge of it.
I mean, many of us pro-Obama people on BJ did not start off there. I was an Edwards supporter, I recall a number of people being for Biden, Dodd, Richardson. But all of those guys dropped out when it became too tough to continue. And we supporters switched our alliances.
For many of us, the concept that “our guy lost” isn’t new – we have all been there already. So when we see these Hillary supporters are in a massive pity-party, we have a bit of a right to think “suck up and deal, this is the big leagues!”
A Different JC
Yup. I’ve said on my blog that the only silver lining I saw to the HRC-extended 56-contest primary was that Obama was allowed to campiagn as a general election candidate using primary money. And now he gets to double dip, get another $2300 from his primary donors, to run another general campaign, but this time just to pick up pieces, repair HRC burnt bridges, and concentrate on Florida and Michigan
loquacious mute
The thing is in a way this is now Hillary’s problem. She whipped all these crazies up and now they will be doing all this carzy shit in her name. She has her own group of dittoheads, who will make her look like some kind of firnge wacko whose supporters spew hate and throw reason out the window. This cannot be good for her at all.
Jon H
crw wrote: ” I would much rather see Neal Katyal as a nominee to the Supreme Court. He represented Salim Hamdam in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld and has impeccable civil liberties chops. And he clerked for Breyer. He would be a much needed voice against the fascist faction of the court.”
He also represented Gore in 2000 before the Supreme Court.
He might be a little young though?
Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project might be a good choice, and a good counter for Scalia’s belief in a “New Professionalism” among police.