One of the names floated to be Obama’s running mate is Sam Nunn. I say no.
Senator Sam Nunn removed two aides a decade ago for being gay, and gay rights groups are now contending that his action disqualifies him from a post in a Clinton Administration.
Mr. Nunn, the Georgia Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has confirmed that he asked the two aides to leave because of their homosexuality.
We want change. Sam Nunn, for all the good he’s done, is not change.
Thelonius
Any truth to the rumor they joined Larry Craig’s “staff”?
JSmith
In addition to all that, he is really old.
He should pick someone that possibly would make a decent run in 2016.
Just Some Fuckhead
Is Sam Nunn still alive??
(checks)
Yes, he is! He’s two years younger than McCain. Which would put him at 78 years of age when he is handed the leadership of the party after eight years of Barack. From what I was able to gather, it’s Jimmy Carter who floated his possible vp candidacy. Jimmy Carter is 83 years old so for him, Nunn is a whippersnapper who can outfuck, outfight and outrun anybody in the state of Georgia.
Rome Again
I’m not concerned, Barack Obama is NOT going to go with Sam Nunn to solidify his message of change. There are several good options out there, San Nunn is not one of them.
Gus
What good has Sam Nunn done?
The Moar You Know
Nunn.
/ducks
Just Some Fuckhead
I dunno. For me, it comes down to who do I want to be the titular head of the Democratic party in eight years? Who do I want leading the party in 2016? From that perspective, none of the A-lister vp candidates really appeals to me.
Webb sounds like a cool vp for now but Webb as leader of the Democratic party in eight years? That gives me the heebie jeebies. Webb was just a Republican a couple years back and he’s a major league prick.
Anyway, it goes that way for all the people I try to imagine as the leader of the party in eight years. Except maybe for Ohio’s Sherrod Brown and Virginia’s Tim Kaine. A lot of the other folks I like are just going to be so old in eight years.
rob!
“Sam Nunn as VP.”
******snorrrre********
falls asleep, bangs head on keyboard.
Jon H
“A lot of the other folks I like are just going to be so old in eight years.”
True. It’s true of Sebelius also.
Although I think Sebelius would be good for patching up things with older women. Not only is she 60, but she rocks that grey hair. Makes it look kinda hot, like Emmylou Harris does, rather than looking dowdy.
If it were possible to have Webb *and* Sebelius as co-VPs, I think that would be perfect.
ThymeZone
Rome is right, Nunn is the wrong guy.
And his action towards the gays is really not okay in the Dem world. I find it bigoted and backward.
Nunn is out.
Sirkowski
Jim Webb FTW!
Chris O.
I strongly doubt Nunn is a serious candidate, anyway. Maybe at the very bottom of the shortlist, but he won’t be the one.
Incertus
Nunn? His gay issues aside, which are enough to disqualify him for me, the problem is that a selection like Nunnn legitimizes the the right-wing frame that Obama is weak on defense. Of the two major candidates left, which one was right on Iraq again? Yeah–Obama. Tell me again why he needs a hawk as a VP.
Incertus
By the way, same problem with Webb, not to mention his problem with a lifetime of sexist statements. Even if he were fully rehabbed by now, it would be an issue, because you don’t want that distraction in a race like this, and he’s not fully rehabbed yet.
Jon H
“Tell me again why he needs a hawk as a VP.”
I suppose because he said he was against *dumb* wars, not all wars.
D0n Camillo
Yeah Sam, thanks for don’t ask don’t tell.
Jon H
Also, Webb in particular would be a good way to make clear that an Obama administration isn’t going to shaft the troops the way Bush has and McCain would.
That would be less a matter of shoring up the ‘competent CinC’ image, and more about reassuring any confused people that the anti-war candidate isn’t going to be anti-troops or anti-veteran.
slag
No Nunn. No Webb. Sebelius or some other no-name governor.
Mr Furious
No to Nunn. No old guys.
No to Webb. For the reasons Incertus noted—otherwise he’s perfect as a foil for the election
No to Sebelius. Her SOTU response was brutal. She’s gonna team up with the most gifted orator of our time? And I think any non-Hillary woman will do nothing to placate the bitter-enders.
No to Daschle. He’s Harry Reid with out the testicle. Couldn’t even deliver Obama his home state. Guy always bugged me. Could be good HHS Sec’y.
No to Hagel. I like Chuck Hagel. But I don’t even want his for Sec’y of Defense where everyone keeps slotting him. He’s actually a great fit for the job, but I have no interest in perpetuating the frame that there are no Dems to fill that job and it takes a Republican for the many stuff. Sorry Chuck.
Edwards has repeatedly said he won’t take it. Which is fine, he should be AG, Sec of Labor, or home w/ Elizabeth.
Leaning No to Richardson. Great resumé, but he’s a walking gaffe.
Meh to Biden. He’s Webb but with the baggage of being a DC insider. Undercuts the “Change”.
No way in fucking hell to Hillary. You cannot pick a person who thinks they deserve your job as your deputy. Period. Especially if she comes glued to a guy who just had your job. Three Presidents in one White House ids a fucking nightmare. And that’s not even addressing the fact that I think she’ll GOTV for the GOP base that might otherwise sit out.
I think Obama goes for somebody like Brian Schwietzer. Balances the ticket for most electoral purposes, and is a rising player. Spent years in the MidEast and is fluent in Arabic! Fits in nicely with CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.
D0n Camillo
Webb is doing yeoman work in the Senate. He has a good chance of holding onto that seat for several terms. Let’s not jinx it. Besides, I doubt he’d even be interested. He doesn’t strike me as having the kind of personality where he’d be comfortable playing second banana and consigliere to a President Obama.
Brachiator
Sam Nunn would not be my top choice, hell, he wouldn’t be on my top 20 list, but I am going to impose a litmus test on crap that people said, believed or did a decade ago if their more recent actions clearly indicate a change in view or practice. Nor will I support any group that wants to play purification games or hold grudges.
Jim Webb doubted women’s fitness for combat in 1979 (Women Can’t Fight)
Some of what Webb writes is reasonable, but much else is not only nonsense, but is easily contradicted by military history, going back at least as far as Artemisia I of Caria, who commanded five ships in support of Xerxes at the Battle of Salamis in 480 B.C.
But I don’t think that either Webb or Senator Sam should be automatically eliminated because of some Nunn-sense litmus test.
Mr Furious
That should be “manly stuff” under Hagel up there…
Just Some Fuckhead
I’d be the first in line to buy an ObamaBrown bumpersticker.
Tom in Texas
Ed Rendell.
Pacifies all but the looniest Clintonites. Some appeal to Middle America. Delivers Pennsylvania and possibly Ohio, helping in VA and Indiana.
Webb’s book disqualifies him IMO. I think he’d be good at it, but I like him in the Senate anyway.
I’m not against Sibelius, but she doesn’t do much for me either.
Man if we had an Ann Richards around. That would be the all time ass crushingest ticket ever known.
flavortext
Huh. The more I look at Sherrod Brown, the more I’m liking the idea of him as VP.
mikefromtexas
If you’re gonna go for a GOPer for any important post, Lincoln Chaffee is my ONLY choice. He really should have switched parties. The rest of them can bugger off.
Ripley
Dude, some context wouldn’t kill you, y’know… “manly stuff under Hagel”, that’s a terrible thing to say!
Pervy…
Fulcanelli
No Quarter x Talk Left x Hillaryis44 x Taylor Marsh + free meth + repeated abuse as a child + multi-generational Slytherin incest = This fucking abomination.
Teh st00pid not only burns here, it sears and eats through anything it comes into contact with like Alien saliva. Ye Gods…
Lather, rinse, repeat upon exit. Scary.
Wonk
I’m gonna go with Edwards for Sec of Labor and Patrick Fitzgerald for AG. He’s earned it.
VP? No clue, except for the caveat that it should be someone who can run and win in 2016.
Part of me says it’ll be Richardson, I’m thinking he had to have been offered some pretty powerful bait to dump Hill and Bill as abruptly as he did. Obama runs strong in the West anyway, and Richardson could help with the Latino vote.
passerby
This may come across as elitist (so sue me) but, the sentence structure of the above rant gives me the impression that it was written by a juvenile or someone with a low level of education. Also, the site has the look and feel of being emotional with a kind of crazed overwroughtness with the blinking banner and all.
Going to shower now.
T
Incertus
Brachiator,
Webb’s sins date to more recent than 1979–he wasn’t exactly a feminist icon during Tailhook, let’s just say. Here’s the other thing–when you’ve offended a group, it’s not enough that you just stop offending them; you have to work actively in their favor to rehabilitate yourself. I’d say Webb is a little farther down that road than Nunn, but neither is in good shape.
As far as Sebelius is concerned, she wouldn’t be the first to drop a turd of a speech on the national stage and recover from it. Bill Clinton in 1998, anyone? Besides, if you’re looking for an example of someone solid to contrast with the oratorical soarings of Obama, she’d be damn good.
passerby
On second thought, the site is probably created and sponsored by someone very intelligent. This is how dirty politics can be.
Create the site to look like a wild and crazed person is writing it so that it can be dismissed as “kidstuff” and not to be taken seriously. But, in actuality it served its purpose well by drumming up the desired hate.
Yeah. I’m going with that. I’ve already seen reference to that site on Drudge, (?) or was it HuffPo. Anyway, I saw somewhere before Fulcanelli linked it here.
T
Ninerdave
Don’t know much about Nunn, but judging people by their actions 10 years ago is silly. Attitudes and beliefs change.
Homosexuality has become acceptable…really quickly, say the last five or so years. Look at my home state California, banned gay marriage, granted on an offseason ballot, and polls showed at that time people were against gays marrying. Now. Overwhelming support, and it’s not just CA.
People and times change, and to hold someone accountable for what they believed 10 years ago is stupid. My beliefs have changed over 10 years, haven’t yours Michael?
Rome Again
Mr Furious said:
Daschle apparently has said he would like HHS, according to a Kos diary I read. I think that’s awesome.
I’m also looking at Schweitzer.
Ninerdave
Actually emphasizes my point even more. For all the good he’s done.
Has he done good things? Shown himself to be a homophobe in recent history? Do you think Obama would let him be a homophobe?
Rome Again
Sorry, but I think you’re going to find that Georgia peach isn’t ripe.
Ninerdave
Oh and according to Mr. Furious…no high profile Dem should be VP.
In that case I’ll take it.
Actually being an Independent, I’d give Obama that cross-isle cred.
Vote me!!
ThymeZone
I read that material you sent me, I saw around 5683 reasons to pick him.
Or thereabouts.
Anyway, if he brings home the Mountain West, then he can really help our ticket.
Rome Again
At the time this tape is supposed to have been recorded, Barack Obama was running for the senate. You cannot HONESTLY believe a woman would go to a high profile meeting and go into a rant on how “whitey” ruined the lives of blacks when her husband was running for the senate.
Didn’t happen! Empty threat. That message is poorly written and is only being used to reinforce the point after it’s been debunked. Move on!
ThymeZone
An articulate woman who went to Princeton and then Harvard Law School.
Ninerdave
Like I said, I don’t know shit about him, however writing him off by his attitudes ten years ago is silly to me.
Oh and about this Obama’s wife tape. Stop really. If it existed it’d be on you tube. Ignore it. Really. Stop fuckin’ talking about it. If you can’t restrain yourself try the Obama is a Muslim meme…it actually has more legs.
Rome Again
From hcsfjm.com (Hillary Clinton Supporters for John McCain)
Haha! These people can’t even form correct sentences in a poll on their front page, and they are going to create a “527”, yeah, good luck with that.
Website is the WORST design I’ve ever seen (looks like it was created in 1996) and the page count states they’ve already had over 800,000 visits since May 31. Site was only created and came online today. RIGHT!
Registrant lives in Toronto Ontario Canada (isn’t setting up a 527 for John McCain contributions on a Canadian website illegal?)
Registration on WHOIS: (sorry John, I’ll delete the phone numbers off this but they are currently available on WHOIS and I have them if anyone wants them).
Registrant:
Contactprivacy.com
ADDRESS REDACTED
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
Domain name: HCSFJM.COM
Administrative Contact:
contactprivacy.com, [email protected]
ADDRESS REDACTED (don’t ever let it be said we posted it)
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
PHONE NUMBER REDACTED (true dems don’t post this stuff)
Technical Contact:
contactprivacy.com, [email protected]
ADDRESS REDACTED
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
PHONE NUMBER REDACTED
Registration Service Provider:
Homestead Technologies, Inc, [email protected]
PHONE AND FAX REDACTED
http://www.homestead.com
Check WHOIS if you want more info.
wasabi gasp
Those dudes he fired back then were like some of the first model gays off the line. Lots of people have trouble getting comfortable with new technologies. For all we know, microwaves still give ‘im the willies.
Brachiator
I’m old fashioned. I think the first thing is that a person cease the offending behavior and if possible make amends to the specific individuals he or she may have hurt. Although I know that sometimes rituals must be observed, I tend to be suspicious of some ad hoc groups that are little more than self-important and self-appointed guardians of their communities’ interests.
And again, if someone behaved abominably ten or more years ago, but has demonstrably changed more recently, then I simply do not see that anyone can reasonably continue to condemn that person or disqualify him or her from consideration for cabinet positions or even the VP slot.
And I simply do not see the logic of someone saying that Webb is possibly cool but Nunn a definite no-no based on the inconsistent ethical stances offered here.
Back in the day, Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the Klan, was even unanimously elected Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. He once wrote about blacks in the armed forces in themes that might remind some of Webb’s objections to women in combat (Participation in the Ku Klux Klan)
Despite this, I was amazed and somewhat moved to see Byrd not only endorse Obama, but also present him with his personal copy of the Constitution that he usually keeps with him when he attends Senate sessions. I might wish that Byrd do a little time in Purgatory to fully atone for his past, but his present actions and symbolic gesture of friendship is astounding in the light of his personal history.
I actually like Sebelius, and think that she would be a good choice.
Dennis - SGMM
I look forward to being as surprised and delighted by Obama’s VP choice as I was by his campaign. It’s doubtful that he’ll be influenced overmuch by the “weak on defense” argument. Most of those who tout their defense credentials acquired them by filling the trough for the military-industrial complex – not by making canny choices on defense matters.
TenguPhule
Dodd for VP.
Make the GOP pray for Obama’s good health daily.
Because the alternative is their own guts strung out to dry by the toughest person to go after their bloated white bellies.
Tim in SF
I don’t give two shits about what Sam Nunn believed or what his attitude was ten years ago—or ten minutes ago. I care about what he has done, about his record as a senator.
The fact is, he fired people simply for being gay and not too long ago, either. It’s not an attitudinal shift I require — and besides, any such would be lip service in the face of a possible VP spot. We don’t need more panderers.
I remember Sam Nunn’s testimony on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I know servicemen who were booted under DADT, and other servicemen who currently live in fear tht DADT will be used to cover petty personal reprisals (happens ever day).
I remember Sam Nunn’s support of DOMA, too, back in the 90’s during the peak of the AIDS crisis. For every Democrat we could get to offer meek and milquetoast support, there would be a Sam Nunn, a Democrat, kicking the chair out from under us.
Fuck Sam Nunn. I hope he gets bone cancer. I will never, ever support him and Ninerdave: you can kiss my big gay ass.
jake
If we’re going to have daily freak outs over VP rumors I request that our hosts keep it interesting by making up and posting their own rumors.
That way you can laugh at how easily we can be made to argue the pros/cons of an Obama/Paul ticket.
Incertus
Just to be clear, in case I wasn’t earlier, Webb is a non-starter as far as I’m concerned. I think he’d be a drag on the ticket, especially because of his long-term attitudes on gender.
And the comparison with Byrd is an apt one, because not only did Byrd stop the offending action, he became a champion of civil rights in the Senate, and he’s spent a good bit of time, especially in the last 20 years, trying to make good of that mistake he made in his younger days. Nunn may have shut up about gays in the intervening years, but he’s hardly turned into a vocal proponent of gay rights. That’s the difference.
rachel
No, Thanks. We don’t want Nunn.
Raenelle
I don’t like Sam Nunn either, for lots of resons. However, on a decades-old bigotry issue of any stripe, especially from an old southern white guy, I’d be open to the possibility that he may have had a change of heart. Prejudice really is a very curable mental illness, if you’re open to be cured.
Peter Johnson
. However, on a decades-old bigotry issue of any stripe, especially from an old southern white guy
It could even help. The rap has been that bigots won’t vote for Obama. Maybe by adding someone with a history of bigotry to the ticket he can win some of those people over.
Egypt Steve
I’m not saying Nunn is my guy, but here’s one reason to look at him again: remember that Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate, is an ex-Georgia Congressman. If he could over-perform in his home state, if Nunn could peel off some white moderates, and if Obama energizes and revs up African American vote like we know he will, Georgia could be in play. That would be a pretty damn good thing.
Wilfred
Such a ticket would be an Obamunnation.
Zifnab
Screw you all. Howard Dean for VP. No one has earned it more.
But, realistically, I’d be happy with a Sebilius or Richardson on the ticket. I’m not really worried about “shoring up” any of Obama’s “weak” positions (seriously, what weak positions?) and if you go back, historically, what did Cheney or Bush Sr ever do for Bush Jr or Reagen that these guys didn’t already have. VPs should amplify your candidate’s message, not dilute it. Edwards would be nice on the ticket if he’d performed better in the primary. I think he sells Obama’s message well.
Also, Richardson on the ticket would drive the “OMG! Brown peoples!” wing of the Republican Party absolutely over the wall. I would eagerly await the claims that Bill is an illegal immigrant who smokes weed, burns flags, and eats babies. The more crazy, the better.
And, not to sound racist, but I think it would be nice if “old white guy” didn’t touch the Democratic side of the ballot this year. No offense to Hagel or Nunn or Webb or Clark. But I don’t see what they bring to the table that Richardson or Sebilius or Edwards don’t.
I mean, if Obama really wanted to make people go crazy with support, he’d sit Al Gore down and ask very, very nicely.
jake
Bad:
Awful:
Causes small animals to keel over dead:
I’m telling you all to stop this nunnsense immediately!
Bob In Pacifica
I think a lot of these non-change dudes are names floated by the MSM, wishful thinking.
John Edwards is publicly saying that he’s not interested in being VP, but really, what else is he doing? (Okay, I know that his wife is ill). Edwards really boosts Obama’s polls, and he’s far enough to the left that Barack won’t need a food-taster. (Nunn might need a food chewer.)
I think it’s better to get someone on your ticket who delivers the same message but can reach a different audience. All those hard-working white folk seem to appreciate Edwards’ FDR style rhetoric.
I think Richardson could help in the West for similar reasons but he’s not the speaker that Edwards is.
But please, don’t try to move to the far right to fill your ticket. It doesn’t work as a strategy and then you have Lyndon Johnson telling you that the people love you as the limo slows to seven miles per hour.
Tom in Texas
Doesn’t Richardson have his own problems with sexism?
I still say Rendell is the smartest choice. He’s got blue collar cred, he helps with the Hillary fans, and he doesn’t hurt our chances in the Senate. Warner would be good as well.
PeterJ
Every time someone talks about Rendell, I get an image of Rawls in my head.
Just want to add that The Wire is one of the greatest shows ever.
Tom in Texas
Cue TZ in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2..
Justme
Gee Michael, it seems like just yesterday you were advocating a Sam Nunn / Mike Bloomberg ticket over at gayorbit. Of course you’ve deleted everything there by now so I guess you’ve covered your tracks.
Typical of you, really.
Mr Furious
All of you people saying that what you did a decade ago shouldn’t count are forgetting that Nunn is fucking 70 years old. So this wasn’t that far back on the continuum.
It’s not like most of the people ’round here who are looking back at the dumb shit they said and did in college ten years ago—this guy was a powerful, elected, successful, established 60-year-old man when he did that.
LanceThruster
Mr Furious speaks for me. I not who I do want but I agree with his assessments of who I don’t.
One question; if Edwards wanted to be president so much, why would 8 years of on the job VP training be a bad thing considering his age? Say what you will, VP and First Lady our not the same thing and verse-visa.