The one surprising positive thing I can about this shutdown is that a lot of conservative journalists did a good job of covering it, especially Byron York and Robert Costa. Costa’s twitter feed right now is top-notch:
polls have dipped, House in disarray, Sen Rs on ropes. Now, cries/anger of Right fading, seem minor as hardball of Sen Ds rattles them
— Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 13, 2013
There is a growing acceptance in Hill GOP that regardless of how this ends, it'll end badly, and Rs who back it will be blamed for caving
— Robert Costa (@robertcostaNRO) October 13, 2013
Over at the Times, Ross Douthat is ripping off our patented Balloon Juice Apocalypse Now shtick.
A friend says it all sounds like Hitler’s bunker in 1945. Who will be the first to do a Downfall parody of Hitler learning that the shutdown did not work for Republicans?
Jeff Spender
Costa’s twitter feed was soooo much schadenfreude.
AnotherBruce
A-historical Assholes. Could not happen to a more deserving bunch.
KG
I’m actually surprised there isn’t a Downfall parody yet
Ash Can
And once again I’m struck by the irony of having a reporter for National Racists Online be one of the top go-to guys for reporting on the GOP implosion.
Little Boots
see. there’s doug. why has this been withheld from me?
Belafon
Sorry, Ross, but destroying the Constitution is not positive energy nor a populist uprising.
trollhattan
If the entire Republican caucus can fit into a clown car, and I think we all know they can, here they are, leaving the House parking lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIpQ4ah5XTY&feature=youtu.be
billgerat
I imagine Cruz visiting with his supporters right before the GOP caves, much like Hitler did with the Hitler Youth on Apr. 20, 1945.
May Godwin forgive me.
http://www.awesomestories.com/assets/hitler-last-known-film-footage
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
though not as illiterate as this:
A friend says it all sounds Hitler’s bunker in 1945.
Elizabelle
I see I was not the only person who assumed Douthat’s “The Kurtz Republicans” referred to Howard.
Same difference.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I’m visiting my mother, who traded in her cable internet for Dish internet. When I asked her for the new password, she said, “Password?”
Sigh. Good thing I have unlimited 3G on my phone.
Little Boots
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I blame doug.
PsiFighter37
It’s been a while since I’ve tasted ambrosia and nectar, also known as the tears of a Teabagger.
It’s delicious, and I love it. Fill my goblet with another serving, please.
That said, if they so not get their shit together by Wednesday, it’s time to go Zeus on their ass, lightning-bolt style.
Little Boots
nothing? no doug?
Jeff Spender
I’m just getting a kick out of the great twitter freakout. They’re pretty much losing their shit.
John O
I still don’t see how this ends.
YellowJournalism
@efgoldman: That’s why my dog started to whimper all of a sudden!
Little Boots
@John O:
with john boener,
it ends in tears, and probably in a tavern.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
WTF
If you picked any monkey out of one hundred they could drive better on their first day. Without any instruction. Hand the monkey the key and point to the car. Better results.
The Dangerman
@John O:
Nor I in the short term, but, in the long term, if the different Houses pass a budget, they’ll almost have to go to conference as opposed to trying to hold something hostage. It was an interesting tactic, but it has failed miserably.
Little Boots
seriously, it ends with obama and the democrats winning, if only they get it.
John O
@Little Boots:
He (Orange Man) doesn’t have what it takes. He wants to be Speaker too much.
NotMax
Oh, that pesky reality.
billgerat
@Jeff Spender: Comedy gold.
Little Boots
@John O:
and why?
no idea.
but I think you’re right. he wants to be speaker, even in an asylum.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@John O: Boehner hoped being Speaker would be all about handing out checks from lobbyists on the House floor.
billgerat
From Son of Erik: There really are only two options: fight or complete surrender. If you guys in the House completely surrender, I assure you you’ll be fighting for your lives next year in your primaries.
Cry havoc and let slip the clowns of war!
Little Boots
I blame doug.
(I don’t, but come on, doug, jump in and be funny.)
John O
@Little Boots:
Even Obama and the Dems will eventually have to agree to something, or the polls will turn more into “both sides do it” worse than they already are, considering who’s really driving the “drown the government in a bathtub” bus.
So yeah, I understand that the Dems are winning, but no one has told me in practical terms how this ends and when. Both sides are awfully dug in.
Jeff Spender
@billgerat:
Ha ha ha! This will not end well for any of them.
Little Boots
@John O:
if he’s smart, he will get that congress ALWAYS loses this stupid game. always.
hope obama tells them to fuck off forever.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Little Boots: Yeah but his lack of courage applies in both directions. He won’t be Speaker if he allows the country to plunge into recession either. His cowardice right now means inaction, but it will mean action at one point, and the crazies won’t matter.
It will end in other words not with a banger, but a wimp.
John O
@Little Boots:
I do too, in my dreams, but he can’t. He’s got a country to run, and he needs the government up to do it. And he can’t be thrilled about watching us go over the fiscal cliff if the debt ceiling is breached.
So I still think the GOP has leverage, as insane as the hostage taking is.
Little Boots
honestly, I think the repubs blew their wad and everyone is done with them, starting with the white house.
just wait a few days and they will collapse completely.
hopefully Obama gets that.
Belafon
@John O: It ends with the Republicans giving in and funding the government and not using that as a threat to get what they want. The reason Democrats are winning is because people see that the Republicans are the ones screwing up. That’s why the “do you support shutting down the government in order to defund Obamacare” numbers are so low.
ETA: Sometimes you have to wait for a surrender.
Bill E Pilgrim
@John O:
Yeah but in a sense, so what? With the lowest approval of the GOP in history, the Democrats have some room to be blamed a little. If the crisis is over and the Republicans’ approval goes up from 23 to 27% because the Villagers are saying that the Democrats were inflexible, fine.
I think this is what Democrats in office need to learn, and I hope are learning right now. You can have the Beltway press criticize you for being big meanies whether you are or not, and it’s all the same. Look how far the Republicans took that before it actually had any effect on their ability to get elected.
Higgs Boson's Mate (Crystal Set)
@John O:
Did you miss the part where Obama said that he’d agree to a clean CR and an increase in the debt ceiling? That’s the something to which he’ll agree.
Little Boots
@Belafon:
this.
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
One of the most oddly excruciating things I’ve ever watched. Like waiting for Whitney Houston to Finally. Hit. The. Damn. Note. Now. Will. You. Please. I’m. Dying. Here.
Except with cars.
John O
@Belafon:
Yeah, that’s how I want it to end, too.
Just not seeing it, though. It’s a peak wingnut moment.
Little Boots
@trollhattan:
this. too. it’s in weird way.
MikeJ
@John O:
Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate. One copy to be given to an officer designated by Obama, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as they may designate. The officers to give their individual paroles not to take up arms against the Government of the United States until properly exchanged, and each company or regimental commander sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery and public property to be parked and stacked, and turned over to the officer appointed by Obama to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers, nor their private horses or baggage.
Little Boots
obama has to go all willy wonka, you get NOTHING sir, good day sir, on these people.
Little Boots
or what MikeJ said.
Higgs Boson's Mate (Crystal Set)
@efgoldman:
Booman nails it. The Republicans have gradually turned bills that used to pass routinely into a never-ending series of hostage negotiations. It no longer seems to matter to them how many people will be hurt by their intransigence or how popular or necessary the bills are. They arrived at the point where they’d rather have their country die for them.
Belafon
@John O: Here’s your choice, choose one:
1. Save the economy
2. Save the democratic form of government.
(I’ll give you a hint by paraphrasing Franklin: Those who chose economy over government will have neither.)
John O
@efgoldman:
Yes, yes, I’m reading it, and I’m hearing it, but I’m still not seeing it. And how big of a fig leaf? 6 months, a year until we do this again?
Villago Delenda Est
@Little Boots:
“I said GOOD DAY!”
Little Boots
@John O:
depends on how serious obama wants to be.
Little Boots
@Villago Delenda Est:
that too.
sorry,
THAT TOO!
John O
@Little Boots:
And he’s making all the right noises so far, bless his finally steely heart.
But he’s a very pragmatic and practical man at his core.
Jeff Spender
I have decided that I will not be cynical about this. I’m going to be optimistic.
Little Boots
@John O:
true.
I think he’s had it.
but I worry, a little.
Belafon
@John O: Let’s say they get six months. What will happen in six months? Will the Republicans want to do this again in 6 months, say, April? Here’s the thing about a clean debt ceiling that would last six months: Treasury can cover bills until about September or October, right in the middle of election season next year. That would be fun. Might even make the governor’s race here in Texas interesting.
scav
Forgive me, I’ve been working. A) why the sudden freak out and B) tweet highlights? I need some, Word is being shit. of course it is.
ETA: all I’m seeing in continuing backbone, is that the source — plus the looming cliff not working according to their cunning plan?
? Martin
@John O:
Well, there’s only one way it ends. And everyone but the Tea Party knows it. And that’s the problem.
Little Boots
@? Martin:
tears and a tavern.
telling you.
Little Boots
@Jeff Spender:
never deny yourself the pleasure of cynicism.
especially in politics.
wasabi gasp
Florrie – To The End
John O
@Little Boots:
Me too.
Long term, I think the best thing that could happen to this country is a debt ceiling collapse of a few days’ duration so we get a taste. That’s the only way I see it being unused as a negotiating chip from here on out. The genie’s out of the bottle.
I hope Obama has a contingency plan for a default by now, too.
Little Boots
honestly, I think this is the theme song for the republicans these days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM
Little Boots
@John O:
they might, but then wall street will fall on them like a ton of bricks.
that, I think, is the plan.
Jeff Spender
@Little Boots:
Sure, Caligula, that’s usually the plan. But right now all of my cynicism is directed at Apple. I recently took apart a MacBook Pro and what I saw was a portal to hell. I’ll stick with my PC, thank you.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
My mom made me promise today that I wouldn’t vote for Obama a third time. (It’s okay, she knew she was joking. She was always less of a true believer than my dad.)
amk
@John O: What contingency plan ? And why should he have it? Even if he has it, wouldn’t that just encourage the thugs to stick to their stand ? See, we toldja default wouldn’t so bad.
amk
@amk: Also. Too. Cue whine from the loony left that Obama caved.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@trollhattan: Oh, god. What makes that is that the proper way out of that parking spot was blindingly obvious from the word go. Actually, there were two easy solutions if the driver was willing to put tire tracks on the grass. But he tried three different approaches, none of which were a good idea.
Little Boots
@Jeff Spender:
as it should be.
and for knowing my true identity, ten points.
Hal
@John O:
I think it will be the exact opposite. The both sides do it meme is crumbling and that’s only going to get worse. Overall, the idea that this is a Republican shutdown is growing, not shrinking. The longer this drags on, the more loathed Republicans will be. They are very clearly taking the brunt of this, and polling in which Obama/Dems are blamed by 30 something percent simply reflect some Republicans who will never, in any way, blame their own party for anything. Just imagine if Obama were a white man, even the 27% would be shaky in their support, but they just can’t let go of the Obama hate.
John O
@amk:
A willingness to bypass Congress to cover the debts, take it all the way, and put up with a stupid and even more self-destructive for Republicans impeachment?
magurakurin
@billgerat:
you’re not keeping with the whole Apocalypse Now thingy…
“Charlie Gooper didn’t get much R and R. His idea of R and R was a few tittie picks on Lynsie Lee’s Twitter feed and a couple of swigs of warm beer. For Charlie there were only two ways to get home….Obama’s impeachment or a gig on Fox News…”
Little Boots
@John O:
oh, that would be the trifecta, lose an election, lose a shutdown, then lose impeachment.
the awesome.
John O
@Hal:
Hope you’re right, Hal. Hope he hangs tough. But in my own mind it would be a first.
John O
@Little Boots:
Then lose another election!
A man can dream.
Little Boots
@John O:
it’s a hope.
you have a point.
but I hope and pray he gets what he’s dealing with now.
amk
@John O: Yeah, why wouldn’t he walk into the buzz saw willingly? Doesn’t he know that is the only proper thing to do?
Little Boots
if only marshall tucker can bring us all together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUL68ZeclcA
Belafon
@John O: Which Obama will not do because it is no better than giving into Republicans. Elected emperors are still emperors.
Little Boots
@Belafon:
oy.
Spaghetti Lee
@John O:
Inflicting unnecessary suffering on people to “give them a taste” and steer them back towards righteousness never works. Ever. They blame the people who did it (and why wouldn’t they?) and large-scale societal crisis tends to lurch people to the right, not the left. I think it’s not happening now because it’s so completely obvious who’s at fault. If we took your option, the Republicans would start pushing the “Obama confidence crisis” meme within minutes, and they’d get away with it too.
So no, it’s not good to crash the economy to make a point. Short term, long term, whatever.
JGabriel
Ross Douthat:
Okay, I’m gonna skip the savoir-faire bit, because, really, what the fuck can anyone possibly say to make that more hilarious than it already is on its own?
But if we stick with the general metaphor/cliche that everyone’s been using lately, of the Tea Party being a pet monster of which the establishment GOP has lost control, then Douthat’s advice above is akin to bleating, “No! Don’t shoot it! We can tame it again, I know we can!”
.
John O
@amk:
Not sure what you mean, exactly, but if Obama is really dug in on this that’s where I see things headed. Unless he, too, is willing to shoot the hostage.
For the record, I think the shutdown is a relative gnat economically, a slow-burner. The Main Event is by far the debt ceiling, so that to me is where everyone’s last stand comes.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
I will say that I lived in a place where a good percentage of drivers exhibited about that same level of competence. On a scale of 100 I’d rate their competence at a 2.
Of course I will admit that the first time I backed up a big truck in a fuel station, one of those that goes whoosh and bends in the middle I could only give myself a 5. I was able to learn to get better though and I lived through the laughter on the CB.
Jeff Spender
@Little Boots:
I’ll give you ten points if you can tell me the title of the book I base my identity on.
Of course, I can’t tell if you use the google-machine or not, but still. One of my favorite books.
Little Boots
@Spaghetti Lee:
if the alternative is “dealing” with the fucks, then john is right. no deal, no nothing.
really.
Gex
A lot of conservative journalists covered it well because they finally see that the boat needs bailing out. These rats aren’t quite ready to jump ship.
Having helped build this coalition of business , 1%er, gay haters, minority haters, woman haters, union haters, and Christian Reconstructionists to get the electoral victories to advance the fiscal policies they want, they are just now seeing the monster they created. And by God, they are going to try their darnedest to stop the monster from destroying its creator.
They’ve not changed at all. They aren’t seeking truth. They aren’t being moderate. They are doing what they always do, pursue their self interest.
I suppose it’s good that they will finally speak truth. But that also tells you just how far they pushed things in the first place. They needed to take us to the brink and they needed to see catastrophe right around the corner to finally give a shit.
Little Boots
@Jeff Spender:
you win, i have no idea.
John O
@JGabriel:
Jeez, no shit. I hate that sanctimonious prick. And in this case, who the hell is he talking about in the present GOP? Gramps McCain?
Little Boots
@JGabriel:
again, oy.
KS in MA
@MikeJ: Well done!
? Martin
@John O:
Doesn’t matter if it’s a few minutes or a year. That it happens at all is a catastrophe. China is not about to risk $1.5T on an investment that can be derailed by a few dozen assholes having a tantrum. If the dollar loses status as the global reserve currency, the currency of choice for pretty much all international purchases, then we’re simply fucked. All of those complaints that the rich would have their taxes go up by 3% – what happens when the price of all goods coming out of China goes up by 20%? What happens when a number of money markets in the country break the buck, as one did on Sept 16, 2008? That one money market led to a $700B bailout.
Little Boots
seriously, who does ross think he is talking to? what the hell party does he think he’s in?
Jeff Spender
@Little Boots:
Ray Bradbury’s “The Martian Chronicles.” Highly recommend the book if you haven’t read it. Really good sci-fi.
scav
billboards.
Little Boots
for ross, and omnes, and doug,
and mostly for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMc8naeeSS8
Little Boots
@Jeff Spender:
I should. you’re not the first to recommend that. not sure why I haven’t.
Hill Dweller
The President has started calling it the “Republican Shutdown Tax”. At this point, I don’t think he has any f*cks left to give.
The Republicans know they’re screwed. McConnell, who had been in hiding since the shutdown began, started lashing out at Harry Reid Saturday morning.
John O
@? Martin:
I know, but the public doesn’t, there are debt ceiling truthers out there already, and that’s exactly why I hope O is willing to bypass Congress, break the law, and keep the bills paid.
But that logically leads to impeachment.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I don’t know about you, but I’ve already voted for Obama a third time. In fact, I’ve voted for Obama 4 times.
ETA: Maybe your mom’s password is actually “password”.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Jeff Spender: Gotta say, I didn’t recognize it, even though I read the Martian Chronicles. I think I read it about 35 years ago, though.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Heh, I suppose I did too, when you take primaries into consideration ;-)
Little Boots
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
see, it’s not just me.
Spaghetti Lee
@John O:
Dude, “the public” is on our side here. 70-30 against the shutdown? Record low approval for the GOP? If people don’t get how bad a default would be, it’s for the same reason they don’t get how bad a supervolcanic eruption would be: catastrophe on that scale is just hard to wrap one’s mind around.
I mean, why would you insult the public’s intelligence when they’re on our side? Isn’t that counterproductive?
Little Boots
@Spaghetti Lee:
we’re winning. everyone relax.
Jeff Spender
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
He only appears in the chapter “And the Moon Be Still As Bright.”
I really liked that part.
Little Boots
and just cause of, well, no reason really, but probably doug, partridge family:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYSu2OVCGM
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Jeff Spender: Interesting, Chris Carter borrowed the name for an FBI agent in the X Files.
ETA: Added link.
John O
@Spaghetti Lee:
Uh, *I* didn’t vote for any of these morons. The public did.
I’m just gaming it out. In some ways, the longer it plays out the better it is for Dems, as many have pointed out, but I see a risk of who’s to blame getting lost in the fog of a shitty economy, for example, or even a smaller, squirrel-like distraction, like another terror hit or missing white woman.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Little Boots: The Martian Chronicles is very good, as are a lot of his other works. But the Ray Bradbury book that is an absolute must read is Something Wicked This Way Comes.
Little Boots
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I gotta read that.
I do.
and everyone has to read lovecraft. dammit.
Little Boots
and I Claudius of course.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Absolutely. That book is a must-read. It is fantastic. There was a decent movie made from it, with Jason Robards, too.
piratedan
@John O: and if it does lead to impeachment, then it’ll be on the MSM 24/7 how Obama acted to save the country from financial ruin in the face of unprecedented partisan politics and freely able to demonstrate that the “opposition” party is willing to risk the financial well being of the entire country in order to allow them to cast blame on the President. Look at the polls, people know who’s at fault and they know what needs to be done and if the R’s willfully refuse to do it and thereby forcing a Constitutional crisis, then BHO can cite the fact that the R’s have failed in their duty to America and are destroying the Democratic process from within. You think that folks won’t be able to connect the dots? Sure, 27% will go along, but hell those folks would happily tune in for human sacrifice as long as it involved someone poor, someone “other”.
Obama has to play this out, the GOP either submits and acknowledges that this is how our country works and passes a clean bill or they Thelma and Louise it and earn themselves a nice shiny badge as internal terrorists and are never trusted again with the reins of power for a generation if not extinction as a political entity.
Little Boots
@piratedan:
oh, jeebus, if they want to relive the whole stupid crazy of the 90’s, I hope Obama is smart enough to let them.
mdblanche
@MikeJ: The face-saving concession of letting them keep their private horses will have a very happy effect among the men and do much toward reconciling the country.
JGabriel
Has anyone else read Costa’s Twitter feed tonight?
Way back around the first or second day of the sequester, I commented (both here and at TP, I think) that if I were the President, I’d tell the GOP, “You had your chance to get CR at sequester levels. You blew it. Now I won’t sign anything less than a CR at full, pre-sequester, funding levels”
Well, guess what? Costa’s reporting that the Senate Dems are doing it:
Man, oh, man, I so hope the Dems beat the GOP with a repeal of the sequester, on top of a CR and raising the debt limit. That would be a thing of beauty.
John O
@piratedan:
Agreed. But it’ll be very painful for everyone, and I’ve never seen him hold the line like this before.
Lots of historical career-defining moments in this farce.
Little Boots
and now, monkees:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU615FaODCg
The prophet Nostradumbass
@JGabriel: That would indeed be a thing of beauty. Normally I don’t like rubbing it in opponents’ faces when they lose, but I would make an exception in this case.
Little Boots
oh, come on, this is supposed to be the nightowl place.
JGabriel
@The prophet Nostradumbass: I don’t want to get my hopes up too high, because it almost seems too good to be true. But, damn, I’m proud that the Sen. Dems are discussing it.
THAT is the way to play hardball.
.
piratedan
@JGabriel: it would show a sense of fortitude that most Dems have been lacking for a while, turning the constant “attack, attack, attack” tactics back on their purveyors. Enough collegial spirit, these fuckers have been abusing that commodity since the 2009 inauguration. Besides, who has stood up to the Tea Party yet? Not their own leadership and the dynamic in 2011 was different than it is today that allowed them more leverage and watching how they’ve continued to use that leverage is a fair indication that they’re not interested in compromise, they seem to have adopted the old Japanese Military code where there is only victory and any surrender means that you’re not worthy to be on the battlefield. While that sells clicks over at RedState, it’s no way to run a country when your main focus is to maim the government itself and sell off the pieces to the people who bought your way into office.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: The composer of that song also co-wrote this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPjhHcLpfr4
Little Boots
@piratedan:
I think dems have woken up. may be wrong, but I think they have. we’ll see.
Kay
@JGabriel:
What Senate Dems objected to about Collin’s sequester-level deal was the length of it, though.
They don’t want it in place for 6 months because they think Boehner will be “broken” and they will be negotiating an actual budget prior to January 15th:
So the deal will have sequester level funding, but they won’t have committed to that level of funding going into what they hope will be budget negotiations after this is over.
Kay
Ha ha
JGabriel
Kay:
Ah, well. I got the impression that the Dems were moving beyond that, but they probably can’t do that now without looking like we’re attaching conditions to the CR — which would give the media the “both sides do it” narrative they prefer.
Hill Dweller
@Kay: During Ryan’s short lived “WSJ oped/talks leader/bargain broker” phase last week, the NYT tried helping out with a really shameless fan boy piece.
Hill Dweller
If Dems are smart, they’ll keep the medical device tax in their pocket for the next round of negotiations. Don’t give Republicans a damn thing for raising the debt ceiling.
Kay
@JGabriel:
Well, reading the article, it looks like they got the okay from the WH to (technically) “attach conditions” to the CR.
I think there was probably a basic misunderstanding about what “accepting” sequester level funding meant, from the start of this.
It looks like Democrats meant sequester funding short term, to get it open and get past the debt limit, which may have been what the WH meant too. I know it was reported as “accepted sequester funding” but there was never any length reported.
It looks to me like “Dems accepted sequester level funding!” going into this was a little overblown, actually. I don’t know that they ever intended that to be the base number they started budget negotiations with.
The big loser (besides John Boehner) is really Paul Ryan. They blew past his whole strategy, which was offer Dems “concessions” on the budget, starting at restoring sequester cuts. His number is gone.
It’s hard to believe (too good to be true) because that’s more than a complete capitulation on the demands, it actually takes the House lunatics backward. They’ll be in a worse position both politically and substantively if Senate Democrats win this. We’ll see, but they certainly deserve to take a hit, so I hope The Paul Ryan Budget is jettisoned.
WereBear
Want.
Central Planning
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Shhhh! We don’t want the repubs to know we all get two extra votes!
TS
Who brought JohnO to the party?@John O:
“Yes, yes, I’m reading it, and I’m hearing it, but I’m still not seeing it. And how big of a fig leaf? 6 months, a year until we do this again? ”
You’ve obviously got your eyes shut – way too much concern – but but but.
The President has this covered and the Senate are rock solid behind him.
Baud
@Central Planning:
Extra twitter characters and extra votes. I love being a Democrat.
Baud
@Central Planning:
Extra twitter characters and extra votes. I love being a Democrat.
HeartlandLiberal
Hitler discovers the GOP has not ideas. Brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQGBYY6HVMs#t=43
Uncle Cosmo
@John O:
IMO he will, because he has far more concern for process than programs. The details of programs can be negotiated & compromises made, but only if the governing process continues to function properly. Once the process is broken, governance becomes impossible. That’s a case the White House can make (& has made successfully) & it’s the right place to make a stand. The Teahadis didn’t help their cause when they decided that destroying Obamacare was worth risking default over:
The Democrats have successfully spun the situation as the GOP trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer.
It doesn’t help the teabaggers that as the website glitches are ironed out & people investigate Obamacare, it looks at worst innocuous (& at best a godsend for their budgets). At which point they start to wonder what the heck the GOP’s problem is–which feeds right back into the Democratic narrative that they’re more interested in smashing holes in the wall than in killing the critter, & that the most important thing right now is to take the sledgehammer out of their hands before they do any more damage..
carbon dated
Sorry but Byron York still eats paste
catclub
@Belafon: ” Sometimes you have to wait for a surrender. ”
This. It ends when the deadline finally arrives, and then (and no sooner) the GOP folds.
I just hope the Treasury has calculated correctly. A miscalculation and we default on the 16th, while they are voting to
accept the terms of surrender. Then all hell breaks loose. One of those things will be blaming the Treasury and Obama
for miscalculating the drop dead time.
chopper
@carbon dated:
what york doesn’t realize is, if an asteroid was hurtling toward earth and obama pushed a bill to fund a space mission to stop it, it would pass without a single GOP vote. ‘no republican votes’ for a bill is an absolutely meaningless metric.
carbon dated
@chopper: It’s pretty frigging obvious innit? I read through B-York’s tweets and I have no idea why DougJ is impressed.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@catclub: I think, if anything, the shutdown may have pushed the date back, which will lead to some misunderstanding because most people don’t know how the Treasury has been saving the government since May.
chopper
@piratedan:
this is one reason why obama has the leverage here. not that he’s super concerned with an impeachment fight (no way he’d get convicted in the senate), but this whole foofaraw has set up three options: 1) the GOP caves and eats shit over it, 2) we full-on default and the GOP eats shit over it, or 3) we half-default and obama steps in to save the economy and the GOP eats shit over it.
for them it’s a no-win. the public is so dead-set against them now that they have no way of saving face. which makes sense, since they cut their own nose off to spite it.
the Conster
@chopper:
York knows that which makes him just another dishonest hack to be ignored.
joel hanes
@piratedan:
Enough collegial spirit, these fuckers have been abusing that commodity since the 2009 inauguration.
The Rs have abused process norms since Clinton was first inaugurated in 1993.
Glidwrith
@catclub: If anything, the drop dead date has probably been pushed back a little bit because the government itself is shut down. There’s something like $300 million per day that isn’t being spent because of furloughed workers. We don’t have an extra month or even an extra week, but there might be a tiny bit of squish.
And I see Belafon beat me to it….
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@John O: It ends on Wednesday, when Boehner brings forward a clean CR and debt ceiling raise.
Right now, there’s little disadvantage to the GOP for holding out. Its still several months to the primaries and a good year ’til the general, there’s plenty of time to bury the shutdown and capitulation in bullshit and its not like the 47% taking the shutdown in the shorts was voting for them anyways. They can hold out on the .00001% chance the Dems will fold and give them a gold star for effort.
That all changes when we smack our head on the debt ceiling. The economy goes boom and there’s no amount of bullshit mountain that will save 2014 for them. Not the least, these guys aren’t that dumb. Their investments aren’t buried in mason jars in the backyard. Well, for most of them at least.
So, no, put away the Concernitol. The GOP went all-in on a two and a seven, came up empty, and are now waiting until the last possible moment to fold.
Citizen_X
@carbon dated: What an obfuscating knob.
“So, ah, Byron, they passed Obamacare?”
“Why yes, they did. But without any…”
“So it’s the fucking law now, right?”
“Well, yes, but…”
“So everything else you said is completely irrelevant.”
chrome agnomen
this thread has been a unmitigated joy to read. that is all.
Patricia Kayden
@Little Boots: Given how crazy the current Republicans are, I share your sentiments. House Republicans just may allow the economy to go over the cliff. Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
bobbo
Too bad “Captain Phillips” was only just released, otherwise it might be even better than “Downfall” for parody purposes. Republicans are the Somali pirates in the lifeboat. They speak in Somali with subtitles, so perfect!
JGabriel
HeartlandLiberal:
Wow. That video is more than three years old, and it still sounds (reads?) like it could have been made yesterday. It’s kind of startling, how little they’ve changed and how long they’ve gotten away with this shit.
.
PhilbertDesanex
Skip Hitler, how about Ostensibly The Speaker Boehner says ‘ …the budget negotiations have gone not entirely to the GOP’s advantage…’
Re impeachment, President Barack Obama is required to spend the money, and if they will not allow him to do, they got him either way. So it’s impeachment all the way down.
fuckwit
@John O: I know exactly what this is, and I’ve been saying it for a few years now.
Obama has gotten a bad rap and lots of whining and bitching from the left (firebaggers! Obama sold us out he’s worse than Bush!) about “not sticking to his principles”.
The problem there has been lefty wishful thinking (the flipside of Rethug Projection: Rethugs accuse their enemies of wanting to do what they themselves wish to do or have done… lefties feel ENTITLED to believe that their ALLIES want to do what they themselves wish to do or have done).
Obama has principles. Rock-solid principles. He sticks to them like glue. He never betrays them. They’re just somewhat orthogonal to my principles, or the principles of those on the left (or the right).
What Obama believes in most passionately, and is most committed to defend, is American Constitutional Democracy. The system of compromise, of balance of powers, of peaceful transitions of power, of respect for the will of the people, even when they are wrong. He truly is a Constitutional scholar.
So, all of his infuriating softball negotiations, compromises, sell-outs, etc, have been none of the above to him. They have been him modeling and walking the talk of what he believes: compromise and good faith. It didn’t matter to him that his opponents might not be acting in good faith– until they proved they weren’t. That happened in the 2011 hostage negotiatins, decisively. He gave them the benefit of the doubt… and they fucked him over.
Now we are seeing bad-ass take-no-prisoners Obama. Because what is at stake here is something he will bet everything on, he will go to the wall to defend: the Constitution itself.
If Obama caved on this, it would be the end of the republic. Forever. It really would be that apocalyptic. It would be the end of everything he believes in, everything he’s worked for his whole life, and not just his, but the end of a 230-year-old experiment. It would be the destruction of the Union as assuredly as it would have been if the Confederacy had won in the 1860s.
If a maybe 1/3 minority of one of two parties in of one of two legislative houses in one three branches of government (compound that fraction for a second: 1/3 of 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/3. What’s that work out to, about 2%?) can hold the United States government and entire world economy hostage, then we are done.
Obama will fight this with everything he’s got. There will be discussions, for sure, but there will be no concessions. Not gonna happen.
fuckwit
@Citizen_X: Don’t they remind you of little kids playing a board game? As soon as one loses, he argues that rules have to be changed retroactively?
Bill Arnold
@John O:
One way to read between the lines of Jack Lew’s statements is that the computer systems are not set up for choosing which bills to pay (aka prioritization), and that while the techies may have offered opinions on how it might be done (even on a very coarse level), it has not been tested (because (caveat IANAL) that would imply willingness to break the law, and perhaps personal liability.) and so cannot be counted on to work. Anyone who works with large software systems knows that “has not been tested” is close to synonymous with “won’t work”. Various workarounds to the debt ceiling have been discussed, some of them in the business press. Haven’t seen any that look particularly plausible but I’m not a good judge of that. (I’m getting some more cash out of the bank this week….)
For a while people were worried about a belief gap in beliefs about the lack of seriousness of a failure to raise the debt ceiling. (The crazy right has been dominating this.) Hopefully some educating has been happening.
Bill Arnold
@Belafon:
Can’t help thinking of Japan, summer of 1945.
Thomas
You can bet that when an anonymous MoveOn member does a Downfall parody, we’ll hear about the Rabid Left comparing their political opponents to Nazis for years on end.
DavidTC
@John O:
I hope Obama has a contingency plan for a default by now, too.
While he has, rather correctly, concluded that it’s not actually legal for him to choose not to pay random people, he is probably setting up some sort of system to just hold payments, in order, until the money is actually collected. That’s a stupid system, but it’s better than bouncing checks.
Incidentally, the whole ‘just pay bondholder’s is completely illegal, and easy to show it’s illegal. Let’s say that Obama is required, by law, to pay monies on this schedule:
18th: SS checks to everyone, totaling $50b.
19th: Paychecks totaling $20b.
20th: Bonds mature, totaling $30 billion
And the government is getting, I dunno, $25b a day. (These numbers are all made up.)
On the 18th, he required, _by law_, to pay $50b. Now, he doesn’t have that much, so he clearly can’t pay it, but he can pay $25b of it, so has to. It _doesn’t matter_ we’d rather have that for the bond holders.
On the 19th, he has another $25b, and now options. He can pay either paychecks and some SS, or entirely finish SS. He has two roughly equal obligations under the law, and can probably follow either one. What he still _cannot_ do is save up any money for the bonds.
And now it’s the 20th, and we’re fucked. $5b worth of bonds just defaulted, at minimum.
There is no magical ability of the president to say ‘I have obligations under the law to pay bills today, but I’m going to completely ignore the law and not spend the money because I think a later obligation is more important.’.
He can select one if he has two competing obligations _at once_, but he can’t just ‘defer’ following the law for a later obligation.
There’s another argument would say he can’t even _do that_…there is apparently a reasonable legal argument that he has to pay obligations _in order_. And another is that he has to pay ‘debts’ before anything else, thanks to the 14th amendment.
But neither of those arguments allow him to ‘save up’ money…if the government has any outstanding obligations, and a single penny of money, Obama is required to pay that obligation right the hell now, no matter how pointless it is and how much that penny would be better spent elsewhere. There’s just some disagreement over what happens if the government has more than one outstanding obligation.
Edit: ‘if the government has any outstanding obligations, and a single penny of money, Obama is required to pay that obligation right the hell now’ is not completely true. Sometimes the government can shuffle dates around, because it owes money to itself or has a span of time it can make payments during. Of course, _we did that for months_ and now we’re out of ways to rig things like that. So that’s 100% true in this specific instance, it’s just sometimes not 100% true.