Remember how the debate was supposed to knock out Trump and firm up the "reasonable" candidates? pic.twitter.com/28H9xIPFrG
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) August 16, 2015
You’d think some of the Repub ratfvckers and dog-whistlers would at least remember a few lines from the first part of that book they talk about loving so much… like, for instance, Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling. From the numbers guy at the Washington Post, “We Can Now Name the Winner of the GOP Debate…“:
Fox News released the results of the first major-outlet national poll since the first Republican debate
three monthstwo weeks ago. Comparing those results to the Fox poll released immediately before the debate, we can, as objectively as possible, declare a winner: Ben Carson, who saw a five-point jump in the polls — a 71 percent increase over where he was two weeks ago…Trump essentially held steady. Don’t read too much into a one-point drop, given the margin of error here and the fact that these numbers are rounded. Trump certainly didn’t see a gain, though. Is this his peak? Who knows anymore. But feel free to read things into Jeb Bush’s change: He dropped six points — and three spots in the ranking.
Over time, Bush has gone from the consistent leader to part of the second-tier pack. Scott Walker also dropped a fair amount and is now in the third tier, which Fiorina has just joined. (Marco Rubio and John Kasich, whose debate performances were generally praised, basically didn’t move.)
In total, 42 percent of the support from Republican voters went to people who have never held elected office: Trump, Fiorina and Carson. Feel free to read into that, too.
What I’m reading, as a cynical Democrat, is that Fox has convinced its Repub-base watchers that government is just another crappy reality show, so they might as well vote for the gaudiest bloviator on the dais. The sercon Establishment picks eroded their perceived support, the niche candidates didn’t impress anyone who wasn’t already enamored of them, and the winner was that nice quiet doctor man who was just different enough, for some reason, that those half-watching while they did other stuff remembered his name when the pollsters called.
***********
Apart from being cruelly cynical about almost half the American voting public, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
SP
How are all the pundits missing the fact that Pataki is the obvious winner? He increased his support infinity percent!
redshirt
I eagerly await the day the Presidential election is a text vote only reality show on Fox.
bbleh
The Sercons sound like bad-guy distant cousins of the Vulcans.
“Sir, Starfleet Command reports that the Sercon High Council has just started another war against a planet in the Middle Gamma quadrant.”
Amir Khalid
It’s strange, isn’t it? The professional politicians in the field seem to have no skill for campaigning or promoting their policy ideas (such as they are). So a crass, incoherent blowhard leads the field and the newbies are gaining ground.
NonyNony
Fox news hasn’t convinced them of anything. About half the GOP base has always felt that anyone in government should automatically be removed from consideration for elected office and only non-pols should be considered truly pure enough to hold office.
It’s just that usually there is one serious candidate that the other about half can support and the crazy vote gets split. Without a strong serious candidate, the craziest portion of the base is rallying.
BGinCHI
Probably a statistically significant number of old stupid Republicans thought the caller said “Johnny Carson” and Hey-O!, he gets the nod.
Loviatar
A few weeks ago the NPR hosted CBC show the “q” had a panel on to discuss Harper Lee’s followup book Go Set a Watchman and I remember there was a portion where the Canadians couldn’t understand why the Americans were surprised and upset that Atticus Finch turned out to be a racist. All the Canadians made the point just because Atticus Finch was polite didn’t make him a good person. They stated because as a general rule Canadians tend to be polite anyway, they automatically discount politeness and look to the content of a person’s words and deeds of the person to define goodness.
If I follow that rule, then I have to say anyone still calling themselves a Republican is not a good person.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I do not think it’s possible to be too cynical about this Republican nomination cycle.
Only if it causes heart palpitations. Oh wait that may come from not being cynical enough. What to do, what to do?
Shaun Appleby
For those Republicans who are mad as hell and just want to break things Trump is their perfect vessel; I’m doubting they care about winning the presidency any longer.
Turgidson
I’m all for the Trump candidacy as long as Trump keeps savaging the other GOP candidates, saying all the things the Both Sides Do It media refuses to say about this pack of know-nothings, blowhards, and know-nothing blowhards in order to preserve their precious horse race and fall back on false equivalence bullshit whenever a GOPer does something abhorrent (which is hourly at this point).
I’ve noted before that if Trump keeps this going for long enough, and especially if he goes 3rd party, he might accidentally become one of the great statesmen of this young century by blowing up the current massive beehive of hate, fear, and propaganda that is today’s GOP and perhaps forcing them to become something less abominable.
(of course, every time I think the GOP has hit bottom and has no choice but to reform for the better, I’m tragically mistaken. The Trump fallout may just push the GOP into ever more loony oblivion)
O. Possum
The book they talk of loving so much? Those don’t sound wooden and sociopathic enough to be Rand quotes
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
What makes their job hard is that they actually have NO policy ideas. And it’s harder to sell fairy tales to those with a functioning adult brain.
Calouste
And another 17 percent went to candidates who haven’t held elected office since January 2007: Jeb!?, Huckabee, S*nt*r*m and Pataki. That combined total of 59% is up 1 from the previous poll.
Germy Shoemangler
Ben Carson seems somewhat normal and sensible on the surface, all sleepy-eyed, reassuring common sense, but then if you hear him for more than five minutes or so, it becomes apparent his ideas are lunacy.
srv
Batman is dead. RIP.
Anne Laurie
@bbleh:
Well, I got the neologism from sf fandom – serious and constructive. I think it sounds more like a particularly bland offshoot of the Klingon empire, though — “Sir, Ambassador Jeb of the Sercon Plutocracy has just blown up another one of his official starships ‘by accident’. And Ambassador Walker’s ship has wandered into an asteroid field, and if he isn’t rescued by a third party, Sercon High Chief Reince Preibus is threatening to do… something.”
schrodinger's cat
@Loviatar: What do you call people who call themselves independents and insist that both parties are the same?
Ruckus
@Loviatar:
Not a bad system, it’s just that some don’t actually know (or want to understand) that today’s republicans are not their dad’s republicans. Not as much different as one might imagine but still not the same. So some aren’t evil, just uninformed or maybe better, willfully uninformed.
Mary G
Remember how the RNC changed its debate formula this time so as not to replicate the long parade of crazy they had in 2012? Ha ha. I imagine the Donald has a few of them longing for the good old days of Herman Cain, Michele Bachman, and Newt.
LWA
@BGinCHI:
Half of the people who picked up their landline were named Floyd R. Turbo.
Ruckus
@schrodinger’s cat:
Now those people are willfully uninformed. Or don’t give a shit. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. Though if you look at their voting record it might show that they are lying.
Anne Laurie
@schrodinger’s cat:
Willful idiots. (Not to their faces, but mine usually gives my opinion away.)
the Conster
@Shaun Appleby:
Someone – Kevin Drum? Greg Sargent? – said that the GOP base is looking for a rebel leader, not a president. Plus it feels like Trump is inviting them to his party – not the GOP – an actual very classy, very big party where no Mexicans are allowed.
Loviatar
@schrodinger’s cat:
Willfully stupid.
—–
@Ruckus:
I have to disagree. In today’s instant information age there is no such thing as uninformed and how is willfully uninformed any better that purposefully evil.
dedc79
@Germy Shoemangler: You mean like the part where he said fairness dictates that someone who makes $10 a year pay one of those dollars back in taxes, because TITHING?
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat:
Pundits? Cable gasbag opinion “leaders”?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Polls show Lindsey Graham is holding steady after debate and Iowa state fair.
Hal
@Germy Shoemangler:
He’s really going to have to work on his speaking style. Carson sounds far too didactic and I always feel like he thinks the audience doesn’t “get it” if they disagree with him. Not to mention the whole God wants me to run for President nonsense.
geg6
Going home and forgetting about work completely.
Spent the majority of the day on the phone with 3 students. One who had been told about his student aid problems back in May and who thinks he can fix it all now a day and half before move-in day. Another who insists on living on campus at my campus when there is another campus (of the same university) a few miles from where he lives. He has enough aid to cover tuition, fees and books, but not room and board and has no idea how he’ll pay for it. He also wants to move in Wednesday. And another who is an out-of-state freshman who introduced himself on the phone with “I am an athlete.” To which I replied, “And so?”. He seems to think that because he’s an athlete and has completed all of the tasks required for admission and scheduling that the University should just waive the balance on the bill. I have had multiple phone conversations with these kids (no parents seem to be taking part in any of the planning for these kids) today. None of them are going to be able to move in, I’m pretty sure.
I hate my job some days.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Hal: I watched the “debate” and Carson looked like he was stoned.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
apparently there’s some sort of spat in wingnutville, as near as I can tell all about breitbart being pro-Trump, but I don’t speak their language
Mike J
@Turgidson:
Who would vote for that party? The logical conclusion to Republican “thought” is that shutting down the government and defaulting on bonds cause no real harm.I don’t understand how one can believe Republican economic plans are good for the US without being a gibbering idiot.
If sanity prevents Republicans from being elected, there won’t be any sane Republicans.
Loviatar
I’ve always wondered when does supporting evil make you evil?
—–
Back in the late 80s, early 90s I lived in Germany for 7 years and I met some Germans who were alive and active during the war and I’ve always wondered if they were evil because they supported their country during the war. When does being evil kick in, do you have to be actively involved in evil actions, do you have to know everything about the evil actions, or could you just have a premonition that evil is being done and do nothing about it to be labeled evil. I think after a certain period of time and depending on the seriousness of the actions having a premonition and doing nothing should be enough to be labeled evil.
We’re going on 50+ years of Nixon’s Southern Strategy, 30+ years of Reagan’s Trickle Down Economy, and now 10+ years of Bush’s War and Torture policies. I think people should have had a premonition by now.
Mike E
Gonna cook and clean today, and assemble a bookcase for Miss E.
If Trump lasts into the NC primary, I believe I’ll vote for that magnificent bastard! Something to tell the grandkids…
Gin & Tonic
@Turgidson: Or, heretical as it may seem, Trump could win the Presidency. Berlusconi was PM of Italy three times, and is at least as ridiculous as Trump.
Shaun Appleby
@srv: Oh really?
scav
@geg6: Education comes in many forms, and it’s not always fun providing it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I still can’t quite grok (which word was once an internet tradition) the notion that Trump wants to be president, but I also can’t think of a way he can climb down and make it look like a win. I guess he can just quit and say, the other candidate are all endorsing my ideas, so I win, you losers.
Shaun Appleby
@the Conster: Now he’s appropriated the Reagan myth to explain his political metamorphosis:
Heads ‘splodin like ripe pumpkins among the careful mythographers of modern Republicanism.
RaflW
Does Trump realize that if 20M residents in the US got deported, there would be a real estate collapse? I suppose he doesn’t care, since he can declare strategic business bankruptcy number Nth.
Of course there are more important human reasons why this policy position is utter crap.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
I wonder how much of this is a response to post-Citizens United campaigning. The major contenders are so dependent on Super PAC spending and fund raising that their formal campaign apparatus is weak. That means they can’t afford to spend much money on traditional grass-roots campaigning, especially at this point in the cycle. Rick Perry is the most extreme example of this. His Super PAC has plenty of money, but he’s having trouble paying his campaign staff because his formal campaign hasn’t been able to raise much money. That leaves a relatively open field for a blowhard like Trump, who is able to generate so much media attention that he doesn’t need paid advertizing to get attention.
Ruckus
@Loviatar:
Many of those republicans are older folks who are not in on the information age. At best they have TV and a local paper. Smartphone/tablet/laptop? No. They are not part of that information age. And then you have youngsters who spend every non working moment on the internet. They are looking a pictures of naked people, listening to music, stupid shit their friends post for them to respond to, but politics? Rarely. Everyone under 40 where I work falls into the above. The one’s older than 40? They just spend less time on their phones, doing the same things.
We have a more informed culture, not a better informed culture.
Anoniminous
Having a deep sad JEB! wasn’t able to maintain his poll standing. [Please fill in the rest of this paragraph with “it’s early,” “voters aren’t paying attention,” “JEB! has the support of the Bush Machine,” & etc., to taste.]
On the other hand I cannot believe the GOP will end-up nominating Trump, or one of the other wackos, because the Universe hates me.
So I have to stick with JEB! as My Guy for the GOP nod.
Splitting Image
@Germy Shoemangler:
That’s why he’s picking up supporters as Rand Paul drops.
Trump’s support has been so close to 27% for long enough that I am comfortable guessing where it is coming from and comfortable saying it will stay about the same until the primaries begin.
Roger Moore
@efgoldman:
And the ones in blue, white, and red are the cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
I think I’ve had another editor flake out on me. It took about three weeks longer to get the developmental edit back from the one I’m working with than we’d agreed that it would (though one of those weeks was my fault). She also returned Part I with some partial line edits. I had assumed, because we’d discussed it, that the next step was a full line edit on each part after I punched Part II into shape. And only then would we send it to the copy editor.
Instead, I got an email from me today that we can just skip the line editing stage and go straight to copy editing. Either this manuscript is more fabulous than I thought, or something is wrong here. And while this will certainly be cheaper, this doesn’t actually speed up the process any, because the copy editor is completely booked until the end of September, which is when I was going to send it to her anyway.
I thought the artists were supposed to be the ones who are flaky and undependable, and that editors were supposed to keep them on the right path.
Ruckus
@Splitting Image:
What you are saying is that the concept of a 27% grouping is so strong that there is 27% of the larger 27% that is even crazier than we were giving them credit for.
Amir Khalid
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Every writer should be aware, editors are strange and not always pleasant people.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@the Conster: That was Ed Kilgore.
Anne Laurie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Erick Erickson’s decision to rescind his Redstate-the-Gathering speaking invitation to Donald Trump seems to have set off a public schism between the Redstate and Breitbart tribes.
The Breitbrats have been longing for a strong (monied) leader to replace their dead King Andrew and stop the “empire’s” slide into oblivion. Now Erick’s trying to step away from his own gang of rabble-rousers, but deciding he needed to “deplore” Trump’s nasty mouth just as the RWNJs were becoming infatuated with The Donald may not have been his most market-palatable choice. Wingnuts in disarray!
Me, I’m rooting for injuries. With any luck, Team Breitbrat and Team Irksone will decide to promote different candidates just as the low-info voters are tuning in. And the more energy they spend attacking each other, the less they’ve got to ratfvck Democrats.
gelfling545
I can imagine some of the less brain dead GOP voters supporting Trump early on, mostly pour épater les bourgeois, and figuring on watching the debates to decide what more serious candidate support in the actual primary. Imagine their surprise when there was no one more serious candidate available.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Amir Khalid: I don’t mind if they’re unpleasant. I just want them to take my money in exchange for their services.
tsquared2001
“and the winner was that nice quiet doctor man who was just different enough, for some reason, that those half-watching while they did other stuff remembered his name when the pollsters called.”
I like that. I like that a lot.
Kay
Just remember! Every single one of them but for one has to lose.
There will be weeks and weeks of 16 or 17 Republicans losing the primary, one by one. Months.
srv
@Shaun Appleby:
Liberals and RINOs will cuckhold in denial, but in November of 2016 those three words will literally represent Trump.
What was once thought impossible will be reality.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anoniminous: Jeb! himself said this today
To which Twitter Nixon responded
I agree Jeb! is still the likely choice. I think McCain was ready to quit at around this point in the ’08 cycle, and as I recall he had to lend his campaign some money in these early stages (?). When there was some panic in 2012 that Santorum was gonna put a hurt on Romney, the gossip was the money boys were gonna draft Jeb!. I don’t see a savior on a White Horse (used advisedly) in this round (so much for that deep bench). Some people say that Willard is waiting like a vulture for Jeb! to crumble so he can swoop in, but I can’t believe anyone not named Romney thinks that’s a good idea (if it’s even true that Willard, The Lady Ann and the Mittlets do).
lgerard
Lets see
To deport 20 million people it would take about 24,000 flights using the largest aircraft in the world. That doesn’t seem practical.
Maybe we could have a giant cattle drive down Interstate 35, herding all the immigrants down to Mexico….I can imagine quite a few wingnuts would sign up to participate in that
Shaun Appleby
@the Conster: This is pretty indicative:
Yes, I think we get it; any blood will do.
lgerard
@Anne Laurie:
nah
The Breitbots are raving racists while the Red Staters are the polite racists
gelfling545
@schrodinger’s cat: Perhaps the old Catholic term: invincible ignorance?
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
Grok predates the internet by quite a few years. See: Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land (1961).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Sweet Jesus. I have a feeling some longstanding resentment went into this one
Anne Laurie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I could be wrong, but I suspect Willard is enjoying the aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks out of this year’s RNC #failparade. Badmouth *his* campaigning skillz, would they?!?
Turgidson
@Mike J:
Given that Huntsman in 2012 and Kasich this year were/are pretty obviously the most formidable general election candidates the GOP could offer, I’d say a lot of people would vote for non-batshit Republicans if given the chance.
Mittens got 47% (ha!) of the vote even after surrendering to the Base in the primaries and running a general election campaign based entirely on lies about Obama and “me businessman. me fix economy”, and part of that seemed to be that a decent chunk of low-info voters simply refused to believe that he and the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver were serious about shitcanning Medicare and SS as soon as Obama stepped out of the White House. A GOPer who can pull off “reasonable and non-threatening” starts with at least that 47%. Knuckle-dragging assholes like Cruz can slide lower than that, but Republicans who can play a moderate on TV probably won’t.
MomSense
@geg6:
Mike J
@Turgidson: They’ve got to get to the general before they can pretend to be sane.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anne Laurie: Oh yeah, and I’m sure there’s some mutual resentment between the two would-be first families of the GOP, the Bushes have two presidencies and look what they did with them!, while the Romneys are two generations removed from dirt farming polygamists and have all the money! And they all really hate the Kennedys.
@NotMax: I knew it came from SciFi, just seemed to me it used to get used a lot more in the blogosphere. Maybe that was just at Eschaton.
Anoniminous
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I had forgotten JEB! was touted as the replacement for the RomBot in 2008. I guess the idea was to replace a terrible candidate with a horrible candidate?
Brachiator
@schrodinger’s cat:
Progressive purists? Naderites? Sanders backers?
Independents in California often specifically vote against Republicans, but have watched both parties deliberately ignore their concerns. This is not the same thing as saying that both parties are the same. But there are people who insist on mis-reading this dissatisfaction in the performance of both parties.
Loviatar
@Ruckus:
Like most people I spend the majority of my time living my life. I help to raise my son, I work and in the little free time I have I try to spend it with my family and friends. Am I marginally more and better informed than my peers, I’d like to think so, but being marginally better informed is not what I think makes me a good person. What differs me from Republicans and what makes me in my mind a good person is I don’t purposely try to harm my fellow man. Republicans are evil because they set out through their policies to harm their fellow man. Republicans would “be perfectly happy living under a bridge and roasting sparrows on a curtain rod for food, as long as the family under the next bridge didn’t have any sparrows or a curtain rod to cook them on.” That’s what makes them evil, having more or better information has nothing to do with that purpose.
Anne Laurie
@lgerard:
“No war so bitter as that between brothers”
From my outsider perspective, Erick’s attempt to scrub his image clean(er) in order to move into the big-dollar media markets — he’s stepping down from running RedState to ‘pursue other opportunities’– has earned the ire of some portion of his supporters. (‘Thinks he’s too good for the likes of us, now that we’ve done all this work promoting him!’) The Breitbrats were natural Trump-fans in any case (he’s loud on tv & has money to throw, just like their sainted founder). If Breitbart’s various online organs can “steal” a good chunk of energy & eyeballs from RedState malcontents…. well, it would be Good News for Conservatives, that’s for sure.
Danack
@the Conster:
You’re thinking of this? http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_08/if_you_think_rubio_or_kasich_w056994.php
Turgidson
@Mike J:
Right, and I guess I’m saying one possible outcome of the Trump phenomenon is that the party will be able to move away from pandering to those dolts and move back toward something resembling non-insanity.
But as I said before, the GOP has managed to keep doubling down on the stupid so far, so I’m done predicting anything else. Just holding out a sliver of hope that something positive will come of Trumpism.
satby
Saw my first Trump yard sign today, a hand lettered sign plopped proudly in front of a Lake Michigan shoreline multi-million dollar home. Good to see the 1% have his back, but I’d be surprised if that wouldn’t cost him votes amongst the worker bees.
Jay C
@Ruckus:
True, but as Adlai Stevenson famously remarked: you need a majority to win….
Tree With Water
“[Democrats are] a mystery, all right. Not like magic dolphins”.
The shot callers at the NY Times should take a closer look at the escape clauses in Peggy Noonan’s contract. That’s a really funny remark, as well as being an honest and spot on critique.*
(I always feel faintly British those times I invoke the term, ‘spot on’. Cheerio….)
* today’s Charles Pierce at Esquire.com
germy shoemangler
@efgoldman:
La mamma dei cretini è sempre incinta
randy khan
Just because, I took a look at the Pollster poll averages for the 2012 Republican race, and it’s interesting to note that Romney was in the lead the vast majority of the time. He trailed Gingrich for about 6 weeks in late 2011 (until Newt got carpet-bombed) and trailed Santorum for a bit more than a week in late February 2012, but never was worse than second, never had less than about 18%, generally led whoever was #2 substantially and always – from the beginning of the average in June 2011 – was substantially ahead of everybody other than #2. In this cycle, Jeb! has never been over 15%, and has been as low as 4th for long stretches.
Past results are no guarantee of future performance, etc., but still.
Shaun Appleby
@srv: Phht. “Better than Reagan” is a very low bar indeed, Skippy. And Trump is kryptonite to your mob. We’ll see, eh little one?
lgerard
@Anne Laurie:
I was under the impression that the sainted Erik wanted to become a preacher, perhaps because he felt that being a religious charlatan is easier then being a political one….and probably pays better as well.
Ruckus
@Loviatar:
Then why can’t people be uninformed, if the basis for right or left is not better information but being a better person?
BTW I don’t disagree with you about the results of more or less information or being a better person or being willing to support policies that hurt vast numbers of people. Only how and why we get there. Because not knowing the how and why takes how to effect any change out of the possible and into how do you make this work. Conservatives have found a way to make it work for them, directed anger. Not that they really discovered this, human nature being what it is. But they have taken advantage of it. Better informed people can see that this directed anger is crap, that a rising tide does raise all boats but that a boat shooting at everyone else gets dead bodies and sunken boats. Now if that’s what you are interested in, dead bodies and sunken boats, then their policies make sense. You might still like those policies even if you didn’t want dead bodies and sunken boats as long as you didn’t know that’s one or even the only possible outcome. That’s uninformed. Willfully uninformed is when you don’t want to know any any possible outcomes because you might actually have to care. An asshole is one who knows the outcome and thinks it is the best one.
Ruckus
@Jay C:
Thank You!
geg6
@MomSense:
Yeah, but you’d think if they were bringing their kids across half the country to college, they’d have a question or two about how much it cost or how to pay for it.
Anne Laurie
@lgerard:
He’s getting his preacher diploma, because it’ll be a valuable marketing tool. But there were stories in the Atlanta media that Erick was “in talks” with a bigger media chain, and I suspect the lure of immediate money is a bigger draw than the hard work of rebranding his own wingnut “congregation”.
Ruckus
@geg6:
Maybe they are letting the little tykes handle it. Their first adult decisions.
lgerard
@Anne Laurie:
Regardless of what path he chooses in the future, I think we can join together to wish him, in the words of George W Bush, “catastrophic success”
Loviatar
@Ruckus:
You’re making the classic mistake of those who try to find reasons for Republican policies, you’re bypassing their purpose (both the party and the policy). Their purpose is to do harm to their fellow man. (FULL STOP). Will more and better information change their mind, no because their purpose isn’t to have better policy, its to harm their fellow man, so more and better information is irrelevant. If you start from the question, what is the purpose of the Republican party and their policies? You’ll quickly end with the answer, do harm to those who I consider different or lessor.
We as a country unfortunately has seen one of our two governing parties co-opted by the evil percentile that resides in every society. Normally that evil percentile is shunned or marginalized, however men greedy for power and money decided to use that evil percentile to gain an advantage, now the evil percentile is in a position govern or more accurately misgovern.
Roger Moore
@lgerard:
Since most of them only need to be dropped off in Mexico, a lot of it could be done with buses or trains. I think cattle cars are the traditional means…
HR Progressive
I am legitimately surprised that Scott Walker appears to have somewhat cratered in recent polls. I saw a Fox poll that put him down at 6% support??
If Scott Walker, arguably one of the only candidates the Democrats should actually fear, can’t even make it out of the primaries…
Wow.
HRA
@geg6:
I can tell you that all kids are not equal. I had the first one who went by herself to enroll, get her lodging, etc. and announce it at dinner that night. The second one wanted to go where her boyfriend had applied out of town. My answer was no. Yet, she had the potential for success. I suggested local colleges and she said no. I called one of her friends for help and he was successful in getting her to enroll.
I have a daughter who deals with the students at our local U the same way I suspect yo are dealing with them. She tells some of the same stories and how much she gets frustrated with some of them.
Germy Shoemangler
@Loviatar:
Plus they have their own media empire now.
Ruckus
@Loviatar:
No, you are mistaking that every republican is out to harm everything he doesn’t like. I know republicans who are not like that. It can’t be that I personally know all of them. What is true is that as a group conservative policies are harmful/hateful to large numbers of humans and have been since day one. The whole concept of conservatism is to find a time that fits their ideal and revert all policies to that time. Yes many if not most conservatives/republicans fit that description. But not all and not all for the same reasons. If you treat them all the same they will react all the same and shut you out completely. And one problem is that we will never win over everyone, it’s just not possible. And in regard to politics maybe we shouldn’t. But it is possible to win over some and to do that you have to know who they are and why. Assholes you will never win over and you probably don’t want to anyway. Willfully ignorant/uninformed you might get to care and therefore win them over. Doubtful but it might happen. Uninformed are your best chance because if you can get them to listen you can take them out of that category. They might go the wrong way but it is possible to gain their trust and understanding. It happened to Cole, it can happen to others.
But if you want to completely give up on those citizens that can be swayed that’s your right. But you are giving up on changing things for the better. I’m not willing to do that.
The Other Chuck
@RaflW:
To say nothing of the humanitarian crisis that would make the partition of Bengal look like a camping trip.
The Other Chuck
@efgoldman: Boxcars. Plus they’d have to stick them in holding camps for efficiency’s sake. Camps where they’re, yunno, concentrated.
Ruckus
@The Other Chuck:
Like they care about a humanitarian crisis.
I wonder though if the DHS tried to send 5 or 20 million people back if their home countries would even let them in. They probably don’t have passports or travel visas, although many do, so how would a receiving country even know they came from there? It’s not like they checked out when they left.
Loviatar
@Ruckus:
No, I’m saying that the majority of Republicans don’t care about their fellow man and are willing to kowtow to the evil percentile who are out to actively harm their fellow man.
—–
I have to disagree with you here, because I think you’re wrong to conflate the current Republican party with small (c)onservative policies. The current Republican party is made up of reactionaries who have labeled themselves Conservative. Their policies would find no place in any traditional Conservative party.
—–
See, I have to disagree with you again, because I think you’re missing my point. If by this time you’re still supporting the Republican party, you’re not uninformed, you’re a supporter of evil. There is no longer any gaining of trust and understanding to be had, because unless an issue personally impacts them (gay marriage for those with gay family members, etc.) the current Republican party and its supporters don’t give a damm about their fellow man.
—–
I’ve always wondered when does supporting evil make you evil?
I wrote that upstream and got no response, I wasn’t expecting one, but now ask I’ll you directly. How long do you have to wait before you can look at someone and say, you’re evil for supporting evil. Does the person have to be actively involved in evil actions, do they have to know everything about the evil actions, or could they just have a premonition that evil is being done and do nothing about it to be labeled evil. I think after a certain period of time and depending on the seriousness of the actions having a premonition and doing nothing should be enough to be labeled evil.
We’re going on 50+ years of Nixon’s Southern Strategy, 30+ years of Reagan’s Trickle Down Economy, and now 10+ years of Bush’s War and Torture policies. I think people should have had a premonition by now.
MomSense
@geg6:
I get it. It takes a lot of us to raise these kids! My middle son seems to thrive on pressure and rapidly approaching deadlines!!
Bubblegum Tate
@Anne Laurie:
This is also ostensibly about the news that Trump’s people have been paying Dead Andrew Breitbart’s Ghost House o’ Crazy for favorable coverage. Nolte–a Breitbarter–is pushing back against the claim; The Pod has been pursuing said claim. So they’re going at each other about that.
redshirt
Fuck Sercons.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@geg6:
I traveled halfway across the country not knowing if I was going to have student housing or not. It was not entirely my fault — they had somehow forgotten to send out my admissions letter, and by the time I called to check on it, the deadline had passed.
On the plus side, I met my now-BFF waiting in line for the housing lottery, so it wasn’t all bad.
Mike G
This.
I used to think my Repuke acquaintances treated politics with the flippancy of sports fans (“My side wins, yay!”), but if anything the mentality has gotten even more moronic.
tybee
@geg6: @MomSense:
but the kid kept saying “i got it” and got seriously annoyed when we inquired repeatedly.
finally told him that if i didn’t see some numbers, he’d be working his summer job all fall semester long.
and we STILL had to call the university. damn him
but he’s there, we’re here and alone at last. :)
Howard Beale IV
So now I’ve had my first of 3 intratympanic steroid injections to try to get my low-to-mid-frequency hearing back, along with a Dyazide chaser.
If I don’t get it back like last time I had my Meniere’s syndrome attack I’m gonna be one grieving and pissed off sonfofabitch.
Ruckus
@Loviatar:
I’m out.
Dead horses don’t deserve beating.
Joe Shabadoo
@RaflW: Why do you think people would act negatively to a policy that would stop illegal immigrants from apparently making their rent and housing prices more expensive than they would otherwise be? For many people this would make them angry about their high rent or the too high house they bought. As someone looking at houses it pisses me off and I wouldn’t piss on the Repub candidates if they were on fire.
Telling people shit is too expensive because of illegal immigrants then saying we can’t kick them out because of the financial problems it would cause sounds too similar to the too big to fail banks to be palatable.
I can’t believe people don’t see why immigration is such a huge issue. Even white collar workers see people brought in with H1 visas working jobs they want or got passed over for. Immigration isn’t the biggest cause of people’s problems but no one can deny that they do in fact take jobs that would be given to Americans otherwise and bring down wages by increasing the pool of workers. It’s the most basic calculation anyone can understand.
Turning it into a humanitarian issue is a nonstarter for many many people because they don’t have it easy. These people want their elected reps to help them not literal nonvoters. Pointing out that U.S. relies on illegal immigration just goes to show that the system is screwed. People don’t want to hear that the system is screwed and an hour long lecture on it, they want something done about it that could help them.
low-tech cyclist
The WaPo guy is wrong, as WaPo guys so often are. Carson was certainly A winner of the debate, but Trump was THE winner.
Why? Because Fox News, the 800-pound gorilla of conservative politics that sits on whoever it wants, tried to kill him off, plain and simple – and all the bullets bounced off him like he was Superman. And the next thing we knew, Fox News was sucking up to him again. Erick the Ugly disinvited Trump from the RedState Gathering, and the only result of that was that the RedState Gathering basically disappeared from view.
Surviving that onslaught and coming out unscathed was a huge win for Trump. And more than ever, the GOP race is all about him.
And his approach to policy on any issue makes your crazy uncle who watches Fox News all day look thoughtful and nuanced by comparison. The GOP finally has the candidate it’s earned and fully deserves. Sweet.