To the surprise of nobody paying attention, Hillary whupped Bernie last night in the New York primary. Reading your comments on my Sanders post yesterday, it sounds like some of you think that the Sanders campaign is on the verge of tearing the party apart. But that’s not how my fellow Democrats in New York feel — quite the opposite, in fact:
WASHINGTON (AP) — As New York voters headed to the polls Tuesday, Democrats were more likely than Republicans to say they have been energized by the primary battles within their parties.
Two-thirds of Democratic voters say the contest between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has energized the party. But GOP voters hold the opposite view, saying their party has been divided by the sparring among front-runner Donald Trump, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich.
My anecdote on this involves running into my 20-something neighbor at the polling place. I’ve known her since she was little. She’s a Republican, due to a combination of bad parenting and poor lifestyle choices. She voted for Kasich, because she thought he was the only non-crazy choice, but she clearly wasn’t happy about the choices on offer.
Like most New York Democrats, I’m perfectly happy with the choices, have no real concerns about the party falling apart, and I’m enjoying watching the Republicans crumble. I like the fact that we have a contest that gets us free media coverage – why should that fucker Trump get all of the attention? As far as I’m concerned, the minor dust-ups on the Democratic side are nothing like the foundation-shaking disaster we’re witnessing on the Republican side. If we have a “fight”, then we get attention. It’s that simple. If what we’re fighting about is the details of how to get people better healthcare, a better retirement, less college debt and better paying jobs, what the hell is wrong with that? Yeah, there’s some nastiness, but remember that Republicans are fighting over how many hard-working immigrants to throw out of the country, how best to deny women abortions and birth control, and how to make sure that millions of people lose insurance they gained through Obamacare.
Keep that in mind when worrying about what some dumb Bernie Bro said on fucking twitter.
Applejinx
It’s about the issues. If we can have those and stick to ’em, we’re good.
Mike E
This bolg is why we can’t have nice things!
Kropadope
Hear, hear!!!
scav
Always handy to have alternative targets when the mocking habit gets itchy. It’s not as though we’re not provided with a target-heavy all-you-can-stomach smorgasbord. Utah declares porn a public health hazard. Because who knows porn better than Utah — that and jello.
trollhattan
@Mike E:
It’s the nicest bolg ever!
justawriter
Charlie Pierce says it better than I ever could.
WarMunchkin
Speaking of pointing and laughing, Elizabeth Warren just stuffed Ted Cruz into a locker on Twitter, and it was great.
Betty Cracker
Nothing is wrong with that, and as long as the Sanders campaign sticks to the issues and doesn’t accuse our likely nominee or the party itself of being irredeemably corrupt, I got no problem. But that’s not what’s been happening over the last two weeks. It wasn’t some dumb BernieBro on Twitter I was worried about: It was Sanders himself, Weaver and Devine. Hopefully last night’s drubbing will put an end to that bullshit, but it’s disingenuous to act like those of us who were concerned had the vapors over Twitter.
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: Exactly. I don’t remember a lot of fighting over details about how to implement policy. I remember a lot of fighting over who’s a corporate whore.
Tom Levenson
From your lips to FSM’s ear, MM.
I agree w. Betty and many others that the top of Bernie’s campaign has to figure out how to reset some of the rhetoric; it’s not all insane and or naive political newcomers talking about the inherent corruption of all (Democratic) politics but Bernie’s). But damn straight — we’re talking about the right things and are much closer to real actions that can affect such things than those involved in the cage-match on the other side. Something to be celebrated.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
As I drove in this morning, I was lamenting the number of old client folders I have in MS-Word that seem to just slow me down as I’m finding templates for new issues, side issues, etc. Then i came to the sudden realization that I have A LOT of documents on here that would be at least old enough to drive, and a few that are just about old enough to vote this year (happily, I did not do a conversion of even older WP 6.0 for DOS docs when I set up my initial round of MS-Word).
Aside from painfully manually segregating material, is there an archive routine?
Keith P.
Sigh….I just got most of the shit off the floor of my flooded house, and the floors are almost dry, and now another thunderstorm and flash flood watch has hit. On the plus side, it if floods again, I won’t care as long as the sheet rock isn’t hit.
And they keep happening on my dialysis days (my clinic is 20 miles away, across from a major reservoir)
Amaranthine RBG
I was having breakfast with a friend at Applebee’s this morning and she said a federal indictment of Clomton was the only thing that would save our fragile, once great democracy.
FlipYrWhig
@Amaranthine RBG: In that case, let’s be sure never to vote for this disastrous Clomton person!
Gin & Tonic
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Outlook can auto-archive, but as to the other apps like Word and Excel, you’d have to get yourself a document management system of some sort. Or grit your teeth.
mistermix
@Betty Cracker: You’re right. However in yesterday’s thread I was reading citations of what someone said on Facebook and conspiracy theories about a third-party run that come from oddball websites. Nobody should be getting stirred up about that kind of bullshit – it’s the noise of a campaign, not the signal.
Gin & Tonic
@Keith P.: People generally don’t have basements in that area, do they?
LAO
I mentioned this below — as a Hillary supporter I was worried about New York. The relief I feel over her victory is ridiculous.
@WarMunchkin: I can not wait for her to be “ready” to run for President one day. Or she can hang in the Senate, if that’s her decision because she is a tremendous voice for real Wall Street/Banking reform.
Amaranthine RBG
This bolg is in the bag for Clomton!
Kropadope
@Betty Cracker:
That’s fine for the last few weeks, but a lot of the earlier fights were, indeed, carried over from Twitter. Look back to the Netroots threads, for example.
MattF
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: You might want to look at 1Password. The focus of the software is passwords and security, but there’s an underlying document management system (as @Gin & Tonic mentions, that’s what you seem to be looking for). It’s multiplatform, the developer seems reasonable, etc.
scav
Nice to hear from the Applebee’s crowd, keening and ululating over their vanishing salad days. Complementary side order of sackcloth for the table in the corner please!
Joel
@justawriter: I generally agree with Pierce, although the rainmaking stunt bugs me for the same reason that code pink and the glitterbombers bugged me: it makes people (rightly) think that you’re a dumb punk. What follows from these unpopular actions is that it discredits what you stand for.
Betty Cracker
@mistermix: True. Sanders said early on he’d never play spoiler, and I still take him at his word.
MattF
@mistermix: Also, as has been said many times, politics ain’t beanbag. The candidates are striving for a position of enormous power, there’s gonna be some fireworks.
Bobby Thomson
@Kropadope: pity one candidate is tking about those things and the other is talking about how the evil Democratic Party is corrupt and must be nuked from orbit to be sure.
Betty Cracker
@Kropadope: I remember. Personally, I didn’t get alarmed by the rhetoric until recently because that’s when it started coming from the top. But you’re right — there are folks who’ve been holding Sanders accountable for Twitter madness all along. I agree that’s silly.
Miss Bianca
@Amaranthine RBG: Yeah, that Clomton is a well-known villain.
hitchhiker
Corporate Democratic whores in the introduction of Sanders at a public rally is a stupid own goal. Somewhere along the line the campaign got carried away with its own rhetoric, which is easy to understand. My only concern is that this extreme narrative has now been planted firmly in the hearts of a few million first time voters … it’s on Sanders to repair that if he’s willing.
Bobby Thomson
@justawriter: now with more mansplaining!
Kropadope
@Bobby Thomson: This horrifically reductionist sort of argumentation is totally truthful and helpful. Almost as helpful as the person last night who told me I’m not even allowed to express an opinion on racial justice issues. I had a misfire comment, granted, but I did my best to correct it and if there was anything wrong with anything else I said, no one explained it to me.
Miss Bianca
@Keith P.: : (
Chyron HR
@Keith P.:
I don’t think the blog is that bad, but you certainly have a way with metaphors.
HRA
Thank you MM!
gratuitous
@Amaranthine RBG: We are so screwn!
Just for laughs, I put together the vote totals from yesterday in New York. Does anyone notice anything?
Notice anything (that you’re not bloody likely to hear in all the hours of popular media analysis)?
Hillary Clinton 1,037,344
Bernie Sanders 752,739
Donald Trump 518,601
John Kasich 214,755
Ted Cruz 123,894
msdc
@Betty Cracker: This.
Debates over the issues are great. If the fight is about whether the frontrunner and eventual nominee is honest, whether she’s qualified to be president, or whether she’s violating campaign law by raising money for downballot Democrats, that’s not so great – not because of nonsense about third-party runs or Twitter, but because it makes our job harder in November.
PS. mistermix forgot to thank all the New Yorkers who voted for Clinton, freeing him up to cast his luxury protest vote.
So I’ll do it for him. Thanks, New Yorkers!
Rihilism
I concur with the sentiments expressed in this blog post…
Goblue72
@Betty Cracker: The Democratic Party IS run largely by corporate whores and sell outs. There’s nothing wrong with pointing that out.
New York State politics and its governance system IS deeply corrupt. There’s nothing wrong with pointing that out as well.
(Whining about voter registration deadlines is an entirely different thing and they should shut up about it.)
Gerald
THIS post IS spot on!
A conversation about the issues confronting our Nation IS what these primaries are about!
The Clinton v Sanders contest is good for our democracy!
Goblue72
@msdc: If corporate centrist Candidate Clinton can’t take a few jabs questioning why voters should trust a corporate centrist during the primary, then she’s a weak ass candidate unsuited for the general.
It’s politics. Grow a thicker skin.
Hillary Rettig
I absolutely agree. I keep thinking about the passage in Team of Rivals where she talks about how everyone at the time (I think this was around the 1840s, when Lincoln was in Springfield) was so energized by politics and how that was a good thing.
Mai.naem.mobile
So Hils used ‘Empire State of Mind’ to walk into the podium.last night. Trump used Sinatra’s ‘New York,New York’ I think it illustrates the demos of each party. Also,the visible people on the podium with Trump were all white ezcept perhaps for one barely visible person. Not sure about him.
msdc
@Goblue72: That weak ass candidate is beating you and all the other keyboard commandos.
BGinCHI
Agree totally, mm.
The difference is that the Dems are arguing about issues, and thus we are talking about the things that matter in governing.
The GOP are talking about dicks, fear, and each other (redundant). Instead of talking about their shitty positions on the issues.
Amaranthine RBG
@msdc: yes, I am afraid that Sanders has given Republicans the idea of saying bad things about Clomton.
If she wins the nomination, I’ll vote for her, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is an amoral corporate tool who has never taken a morally courageous stand in her life that would have impeded her path to power. Still better than Trump/Cruz.
WarMunchkin
@Goblue72: That corporate centrist who maintained the 11th most liberal voting record in the Senate during her time in office.
Also, adding to what other people said here, Democrats in NY largely agree with Sanders. 72% of Democrats believe Wall Street is a problem. The other 28% don’t because they work on Wall Street. Democrats are shrill lefties now – we just differ on what we think we can get away with in the given electorate.
singfoom
@msdc: Relevant XCKD makes your comment better.
Aside from thinking the HRC vs BS foodfight is about to start again, ROUND 2487, are you not a keyboard commando too sir? In fact, all commenters present are keyboard commandos.
We should figure out a unit number and an insignia.
The Circular Firing 201rst Keycorps
The 303rd Simpering Jackanapes
japa21
@Goblue72: She has obviously been able to take the jabs quite well. Unfortunately, it appears that Sanders has been the one with the glass jaw.
And as to your previous comment, that is your opinion which you are free to have. Others may well disagree, as is also their right.
bystander
I loved Clomton. Especially her work with Green. Singing in the Lane is their best.
MattF
@BGinCHI: It’s occurred to me that Der Trump’s constituency, already betrayed and immiserated by the Republican Establishment, is getting set up right now for a second betrayal.
Mike J
@singfoom:
Not all of us. There are several people here who spent the weekend fighting for and winning extra delegates.
Bob In Portland
– Burdens of a Bachelor
MomSense
@Mai.naem.mobile:
After my mishap with the self tanning lotion yesterday, I will say it’s not easy being orange.
singfoom
@Mike J:
But then you return to the blog and comment, like a real keyboard commando. Hey, it’s no foul. People do what they’re able to do.
Gin & Tonic
@BGinCHI: Totally OT, but looking like I’ll have a week in Norway in the first half of June. Thinking of maybe two days in Oslo, then take the train to Bergen for a bit longer stretch, would like to get on a boat an see the fjords. Any must-do or must-avoid stuff? We are pretty flexible and adventurous.
WJS
This is some weird, unsubstantiated, meaningless drivel I found on a nothing website run by someone who may or may not be giving a Bernie Bro a reacharound:
Yeah, they’re taking the high road, aren’t they? I particularly love the fact that the Sanders campaign seeks to disenfranchise primary voters in order to win the nomination of a party that is the only thing standing between us and the complete disenfranchisement of all voters who aren’t Republicans, but, there you go.
Punchy
This is because the base is completely unaccustomed to candidates who dont toe the Limbaugh line, who dont reflexively repeat the Boortz, Hannity, and Beck talking points. They’ve never seen such disorder because the lockstep order of the modern GOP doesn’t typically allow it. Completely foreign to them, and they’re scared by this new shit, no matter what it is.
FlipYrWhig
@Goblue72:
Didn’t your candidate machine-gun his own feet for two weeks because Jeff Zeleny used the word “disqualify” when characterizing how the Clinton campaign would run against Sanders? Skin, thicken thyself.
Mnemosyne
@msdc:
This. If we want to debate implementation of free college, great. If we want to debate whether or not Clinton is really sincere in her positions because she’s a known corrupt corporate whore who’s probably going to betray all of us anyway, that’s a whoooole other matter.
@Goblue72:
Sure, if you’re a Republican. Otherwise, it seems a little counterproductive to run around saying, She’s a corporate whore who will sell you out to the 1 percent in a heartbeat, but you should totally vote for her because reasons.
SiubhanDuinne
O beautiful sentence, may I marry you and bear your children?
Mnemosyne
@WJS:
Meh. The Hill actually is kind of a nothing website. They’re TMZ for politicians.
bemused
Standing behind Trump at his NY victory speech along with the Trump family was racist, sexist, pervert Carl Paladino who is well known for sending disgusting bigoted, birther emails about Barack and Michelle Obama plus pornographic emails.
Rachel Maddow did a segment on Paladino a couple of days ago but did anyone on cnn or msnbc mention pig Paladino last night?
WJS
@Mnemosyne: Exactly. So why bother responding to the verbatim quote of Bernie’s right hand man? I don’t get it either.
Mike J
@singfoom: I’m no keyboard commando because I don’t expect anything said here to actually affect the real world. This is just entertainment.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
Funny, most of the people I see making the “whore” comments are Clinton supporters using it as a shield from other, legitimate discussion.
singfoom
@Mike J: Calm down Francis, I’m just having some fun, playing fast and loose with the definition of the term.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Gin & Tonic: Even though it’s related to my blog nym, the Kon-Tiki Museum is nice in Oslo and so is the Viking Ship Museum. I liked Stavanger-but it may be a bit subdued these days with low oil prices.
Check out the Hurtigruten for sailing the fjords north of Bergen.
Cermet
@Amaranthine RBG: WTF? You forget the healthcare battle she fought as first lady. I have issues with her and especially relative to her ability to fight for what I consider world class issues (AGW in a real way) but saying she will not fight for something she believes in, even if it costs her politically, just isn’t true.
Chris
I keep repeating this like a broken record, so I thought I should get a source for it and/or check to make sure it was still true. But sure enough: Despite the verbal jousting going on between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders as they travel in and around New York and Pennsylvania looking to sew up votes for those two states’ forthcoming primaries, Democrats in general are very positive about both of their candidates.
According to Gallup as of April 8th, 70% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters have a favorable image of Hillary Clinton, and 71% of them have a favorable image of Bernie Sanders. (Note that Clinton has a higher number of people with an unfavorable opinion – 26% to Bernie’s 13% – but Gallup says Bernie also gets a higher number of “never heard of him” responses, so it kind of evens out). The vitriol between politics junkies on both sides simply isn’t being reflected in the general population.
(For fun: Trump and Cruz both have more favorable than unfavorable ratings on their side of the aisle, but by a much lower margin, 55% for Trump and 52% for Cruz).
msdc
@singfoom: No, goblue72 is the commenter who likes to encourage violence because it makes him feel even more self-righteous. He also likes to pretend he’s down with millennials and African Americans (though apparently not their preferred candidates), for the same reasons.
In other words, he’s a cosplay radical, not worth any more of your time or mine.
D58826
@hitchhiker: What also seems to part of the Bernie campaign the past week or so is the 2.5 million voters that the corrupt democrats prevented from voting yesterday. Were there screw ups at the polls, yep sure, just like always. The vast majority of the folks who could not vote were not registered democrats. Sorry that has been the rule sine 1911. Read one article this morning that said some of these rules were put in place to prevent the two major parties from squeezing out the minor parties. If that is the case then it was an attempt to open up the process not shut it down. It many not have worked out in practice but it isn’t voter suppression or stealing and election. If Bernie’s campaign keeps pushing that narrative it will be a lot harder to get his passionate supporters to vote in the fall. After all why should they vote for the candidate that robbed them of their victory.
If Bernie really want to be a team player its time for him spend some time going after the GOP and getting his supports to work for down ballot candidates, even if they are not as progressive as they might like.
japa21
@Kropadope: Yes, goblue is definitely a Clinton supporter.
You have been extremely reasonable the last few days, which is why I am breaking a rule I set up not to respond to you when you weren’t quite as reasonable. But you are definitely into mind reading with this comment and not doing it well.
Emma
@Goblue72: But when one brings out the fact that Bernie’s just a political opportunist who joined the Democratic party not because of high morals but to have access to the “corrupt machine” organizational reach, then one is being unacceptably mean to his followers’ poor fee-fees.
Stacy
@bemused: He also said on NPR this morning that the US needs an “exterminator” to get “the raccoons out of the basement” in reference to Obama’s presidency.
Kropadope
@japa21: What mind reading? I’m reading this blog. Every snarky Clinton supporter on this site for the past week has just been incessantly “whore this, whore that, har de har de whore.” This doesn’t derive from a desire to debate issues, it’s mockery. It’s mockery of the same sort where they’ve been bringing up randos from Twitter since day one, but now that they have an actual, verifiable comment they’re gonna cling to it til it suffocates.
Also, tell me what you know about the word “most” because one person isn’t most of anything ever.
Bob In Portland
I’m guessing Dagostan or Armenia, somewhere in that neighborhood. You know, besides reigniting things in Libya and Syria. And where was that uranium mine that Bill lined up for his buddy at CGI? Turkmenistan?
Emma, you bought it, you own it.
grandpa john
@Amaranthine RBG:
japa21
@Kropadope: Okay, I’ll give you the last part. You are correct, most does not mean all.
But two things about the “corporate whore” comment. First of all, it is a legitimate gripe to complain about the use of a very sexist term. I am positive that when you complain about some term used to describe Sanders or his supporters, you consider yourself to have a legitimate gripe.
I am also sure, since you are not the type of person to try to avoid discussing issues, you don’t use your complaint for that purpose.
Yet, you make the claim that Clinton supporters point out the negative part of the term “corporate whore” so they can hide behind it and avoid discussing issues. That is mind reading, providing a motive to another person’s behavior without any evidence that such is the case.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Bob In Portland: Shall we discuss Tad Devine & Putin lackey Viktor Yanukovych since you’re in a mud slinging mood?
bemused
@Stacy:
I just read the story and listened to the audio. The NPR host instantly cut short the interview. This is a Trump surrogate, not working behind the scenes but right beside Trump on a gazillion channels. I don’t even have words.
I can’t remember what the percentage of Republican women support Trump but what does it take for them to turn against him? If Trump was a Dem candidate with the same track record, they’d go ballistic.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Dagestan (not Dagostan) is actually a very interesting place. It is ethnically the most diverse of all the former Soviet republics, with at least 14 major ethic groups, each with its representation in the State Council, and at least 30 recognized languages. The violence there is really from two primary sources: spillover from Chechnya (where Russia has been, shall we say, heavy-handed militarily) and conflict between Sufism and Salafism. I have an extremely hard time seeing how the US has any interest in either of those two sources of violence.
BGinCHI
@Gin & Tonic: Hope you check back…sorry I missed your comment.
Yes, I think that’s a good plan. You know the train ride is 7 hours, yes? It’s long, but amazingly beautiful and I highly recommend it. Good food and drinks onboard as well.
While here, yes, there are many fjord cruises to choose from. There is everything from 3 hours to all day to several days.
I would also highly recommend doing some walking/hiking right around Bergen. You should at least take the Floybanen (the funicular, located right downtown by the Fish Market) to the top of Floyen, then walk around the trails up there. You can do easy or challenging, but it’s mostly easy. Follow the signs to Brysshytten, where you can get food and drinks (non-alcoholic). If you get a good map of hikes you can do lots of lots of scenic walking up there without a lot of effort.
NOTE: Bring a waterproof jacket. Doesn’t have to be insulated if you bring some layers (merino wool or quality base layers). Also Gore Tex shoes if you can. You really don’t need hiking boots, at least not heavy ones. I wear Salomon Speedcross 3s, the waterproof ones, and I have been everywhere in them. You want grippy and waterproof. A good hat too.
Where are you staying? Happy to meet you for a drink or three! We are right down by the harbor, so it’s easy.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Stacy: Paladino was horrible in that segment – basically saying (almost a quote – the transcript isn’t up yet):
Obama’s so into himself. I mean, just look at him! He’s horrible!!!
The NPR guy interviewing him just let him talk. Perhaps that’s a good thing, but it was infuriating.
Cheers,
Scott.
grandpa john
@Kropadope: Sounds like you are hanging out at the wrong places then
Trakker
From a 70 yo lurker who marched against the Vietnam war, supported civil rnights, etc. and believes Bernie Sanders decision to run is the best thing to happen to the timid Democratic party in decades.
The reality is that Hillary will be our candidatee in November and I will enthusiastically vote for her, but in the upcoming Maryland primary I will vote for Bernie with just as much enthusiasm.
Bernie was a lone voice of liberalism back when liberal was still a dirty word in the Democratic party, back when Hillary and all the other wimps in the party were afraid to speak the obvious: invading Iraq was stupid, illigal, WRONG! Bernie’s courage, his proud defense of common-sense socialism, and his righteous anger at the oligarchs who have captured our country was an inspiration to me during the dark years of Bush. He desrves my vote.
Yes, he’s an ideologue and I hate ideology of all stripes, but Bernie has shown the Democratic party that we liberals are sick of their cowardice, their fear of offending people that hate others (gays, Muslims, etc.). He had the guts to tell America that we can have nice things, too, that there is nothing wrong in asking our government to shoulder more of the burden of life on those who are struggling.
The Democratic party and America will be better off going into the future because Bernie showed America just how many of us are sick of the status quo.
Gin & Tonic
@BGinCHI: Thanks for the reply. Haven’t figured out any of the details yet, this is all sketchy. Yes, I know the train ride is long, that’s OK. We’re also looking at getting to Norway by train from Stockholm, as that is where this trip starts.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
To all those of you who think Sanders will do the right things like stop pissing inside the tent, stop promoting a flying unicorn flight path to the nomination by shutting up Weaver and start directing his supporters attention towards the actual real enemy, I’d like to know – based on what evidence actually? He’s never been a team player and he has no problem lying. Why would he start now?
BGinCHI
@Gin & Tonic: Flight might be much easier…..
Keep me posted if you can. I’m around, though not doing much commenting lately. Sad!
Aimai
@Betty Cracker: prezackly.
Gin & Tonic
@BGinCHI: I like trains.
scav
@Gin & Tonic: If you’re in Stockholm and have the time, Skansen is worth a visit — first of many open-air museums we haunted on our campling trip. (that and every petroglyph known to mankind). The Vasa is near too, if you like large, formerly underwater wooden things.
Aimai
@Kropadope: you just ignore the long posts abput strategy or policy or history in favor of your preferred narrative that we are all just sniping at bernie for shits and giggles.
Paul in KY
@Keith P.: I’m very sorry to hear that, Keith. I hope things get better fast for you & family.
Paul in KY
@Punchy: They’re scared shitless by Trump, who has Democratic positions on several issues. They are scared to death he will lose & they are scared to death he will win.
david10
@scav: complementary/complimentary-not even close to being the same. i think you meant complimentary. sorry for the grammar shaming.
david10
@singfoom: I personally go with the Capering Catamites Marching Band-formerly the Simpering Sodomites.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: Pipelines. And the US has been active in Dagestan for years, not unlike Chechnya and Ukraine. But there are already British and US special forces inside Libya, so I’m guessing that’ll be the first place.
Bob In Portland
@Aimai:
Aimai, what’s the point of you being an ass without crowing about it?
Which of Hillary’s big donors do you think she’ll disappoint first? Wall Street? Big Oil? Free traders? Private schoolers?
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland:
How many US personnel are in Dagestan currently?
david10
@BGinCHI:I thought Kodiak Island or Ireland were the greenest places in the world before i hiked in Norway. Can green be incandescent?
Miss Bianca
@david10: Uh…no.
Uncle Cosmo
@Gin & Tonic: BGinCHI gives some good advice re Bergen.
In the Museum quarter of Oslo at Bydgoy (after a short ferry ride from the town hall pier) you might enjoy the Frammuseet where you can clamber over Fritjof Nansen’s ship Fram & see the ship Amundsen steered for the first trip through the Northeast Passage. Also be sure to see the City Hall & its WW2 mural. Vigelandsparkken is also neat in good weather. If you have any interest in skiing or the Winter Olympics, go to the museum in Holmenkollen. Not only can you climb to the top of the famous ski jump, the trip out on the local rail system ought to be as gorgeous in June as it was in August when I did it–amazing amount of greenery on the 6-km trip & you’re still inside the city limits (Oslo is one of the largest cities in the world by land area).
if you’re going to do this on the American plan (grab bags & run like hell) you can do Norway in a Nutshell from Oslo to Bergen in a day, stay the night & do Bergen stuff on day 2, take the overnight train back to Oslo (3 bunks in a compartment, very comfy), then fly north. I did Oslo-Trondheim-Tromso back in 2000 for ~$150 total & flights may be even cheaper now; maybe $200 for that with return to Oslo. Check out the Skyscanner website (& for maximum flexibility in itinerary building, go to the bottom of the “Depart” entry & select “Whole month” which will show you cheapest fares by day.)
Not much to Trondheim but the cathedral but it’s worth a look. Tromso is above the Arctic Circle & will be in the midnight sun — if you ave never been that high in latitude it is absolutely worth going. See the Polarmuseet, go across the bridge to the Ishavskatedralen on the mainland, & go up the funicular for a look back over the town & island–you can look over the crest of the hill on the island to the airport & watch planes landing & taking off.
If you have an account over on the Great Orange Satan, PM me an e-mail address there (same nym as here) & I will be happy to share anything else I remember & answer questions. Happy trails!
BGinCHI
@Uncle Cosmo: Great advice!
I think these are excellent suggestions. In Oslo I would also get a coffee at the mecca of joe, called Tim Wendelboe (after the world-famous barista who owns it). I would also grab a bite and a beer at the Grunerlokka brewery, which is a short walk away. Grunerlokka a very cool neighborhood in Oslo.
Also don’t forget the opera house, right at the water’s edge.
Big Picture Pathologist
@Betty Cracker:
Looking at you, David Koch, C.A.B…
Gin & Tonic
@BGinCHI:
Have already visited the Sydney Opera House, speaking of water’s edge.
scav
@david10: I wont even attempt to pretend that level of shame-worthy behavior is due to auto-miscorrect — I totally own my inner miserable speller. I have mastered there/their/they’re and it’s/its (in theory, not always in execution) but wrestle with affect/effect and usually forget who/whom.
Captain C
@msdc:
I am so stealing this.
Captain C
@Gin & Tonic: All of them, Katie.
Miss Bianca
@Captain C: me, too.
satby
@Betty Cracker: co-signed.
toned
@Amaranthine RBG: could not agree more – she is not what any right minded lefty [heh] would ever choose, but the pumas are intent on brow beating us into having her.