I don’t know what the fuck I just watched. I honestly don’t. There was so much bullshit and so many lies I don’t even know where to start.
I remember when I was in high school and went to Kennywood and I drank a couple bottles of grape Mad Dog 20/20, and thought it was a good idea to get on the spinner or whatever the fucking ride was, and puked all over everyone in a 360 degree radius, including myself, while Joe Walsh’s “Life’s Been Good” was cranking at ear bleeding volumes. That’s the closest experience I have ever had to that press conference.
gogol's wife
I just copied your tweet for pasting in the thread below. You are a wordsmith!
Trentrunner
Even for Trump, that was astonishing. And I’ve watched a LOT of Trump.
CNN seems to be–for once–giving a sense of how far beyond the pale Trump’s egging on the Russians to hack Hillary’s email.
MattF
And Trump does that every day. Whole country covered with puke.
singfoom
John,
Your vomit experience was most likely more coherent and on point than Drumpf’s press conference. Hopefully you at least said you were sorry to everyone who dealt with your vomit.
Drumpf on the other hand would probably charge admission for people to hear his vomit if he could.
burnspbesq
I think Dan Drezner just had a stroke.
lamh35
I’ve been told that the Dems should fear Trump cause he speaks to those uneducated whites who they have abandoned..
this is the guy they nod their heads to as he speaks…
so excuse me when I say FUQ em and they can all Kiss my…
EconWatcher
And yet. I wouldn’t bet money he’ll pay any price. He has been defying all laws of gravity. If a completely groundless and racial attack on a federal judge is not enough, I can’t see how any form of crazy talk is going to hurt him.
gogol's wife
@MattF:
Purple puke.
Time to frontpage James Mason’s Thunderbird ad again.
Betty Cracker
I got out of the business of predicting when Trump would go too far a long time ago. Normal standards don’t seem to apply to him. But maybe holding a press conference and asking a hostile foreign government to hack the former Secretary of State will finally be a bridge too far. Jesus Christ. This guy is fucking nuts.
Trentrunner
John is right: Trump is a classic Gish Galloper.
What will be lost: Trump will use “enhanced interrogation” because “it works.”
Runt
I kid you not: Just as Trump encouraged the Russians to hack Clinton’s email, his campaign issued statement from Pence promising “serious consequences” for DNC hacking.
MFA
Good times, man, good times.
Trentrunner
Question: Will any of the DNC headliners tonight–Obama, Biden, Kaine–weave this shitstorm of a press conference into their speeches tonight?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
where the hell do you start with that? Hillary shouldn’t get briefings because Anthony Weiner is a pervert.
Also, he claimed, loudly and proudly, to have been against the Iraq War, which has been thoroughly debunked. No mention of this form Tamron Hall, Katy Tur, or Mark Murray.
Gin & Tonic
@burnspbesq: And Ron Fucking Fournier says “through the looking glass”?
Major Major Major Major
I liked downstairs when Bruce K said that this was the GOP’s Kobayashi Maru moment.
Davis X. Machina
@lamh35:
No price is too high to pay to keep your spot in the tree house. And it doesn’t matter how many folks are killed when you pull up the ladder.
pseudonymous in nc
I’m genuinely alarmed now. When you (‘you’ being the institutional GOP and the press) coddle and enable and normalise a psychopath for this long, then you potentially get to a point where he can ask crazy things of his core supporters and they’ll do them.
gogol's wife
@Trentrunner:
Uh, I think the answer to that is yes.
AnotherBruce
Part of me is glad this is coming out. Another part of me wants to cry. It doesn’t speak well of our nation that we let this egotistical imbecile get this close to the levers of power. I’m beginning to get that 1930s Europe vibe. I’m also beginning to understand how weird things can get in an awful hurry.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Time to start asking McCain and Graham and others if they’re still with him
Davis X. Machina
@pseudonymous in nc: Goodbye E pluribus unum, Hello “Just win, baby!”
burnspbesq
@Gin & Tonic:
Astounding, innit?
amk
So, the media will spin this also as his ‘unconventional campaign style’?
Matt McIrvin
@EconWatcher:
Trump actually lost a lot of polling ground around that time. People eventually forgot about it. There’ll be more stuff along, though.
Amir Khalid
I am of course unfamiliar with certain beverages, but I take it that grape Mad Dog 20/20 is not a soft drink.
Quinerly
@Trentrunner:
I’ve got to stop on this. Head clearing. Walking the dog. Has to be seen to be believed. I think they might pull him and we will be running against Pence. First time I have believed it truly could happen.
manyakitty
John, I am making a special flavor of ice cream tonight and I’ll name it after you: John Cole Sour Cherry, Because Sometimes We’re All a Little Tart.
Kay
@EconWatcher:
I agree. Conservatives think it’s okay, I guess. It’s a complete ethical collapse but it was rotting from the inside a long time. He didn’t knock it down- the structure was full of holes and it failed. He’s just standing in the rubble making speeches.
gogol's wife
@Amir Khalid:
It’s a fortified wine, very sweet, so easy to drink way too much of it if you’re 16 years old. The official name is MD 20/20, and the MD stands for Mogen David, if that rings a bell. It’s souped-up seder wine.
Miss Bianca
OK, I am laughing way too hard at John’s puking simile. Also, kitties have settled into my lap and they’re looking at me like ,”what, hooman? Why you disturb our nap space by shaking like that?”
Elizabelle
The New York Times just put it out as a breaking news alert.
Funny thing is, the press would hop right on Hillary’s emails.
Do you see Trump wiggling out of this one, though?
gogol's wife
@Elizabelle:
Mother of Mercy, could this be the end of Donald?
Please, dear Lord, save this country from the evil madman. Amen.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: No, it isn’t. The 20 is % alcohol. It is a favorite of teenagers and really down-on-their-luck winos.
Oh, and it’s not really “Mad Dog” – it’s made my a company called Mogen-David, so it’s MD 20-20.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Paul Ryan. He’s the Party leader. McCain and Graham are has-beens.
MattF
@gogol’s wife: I was served plain old Mogen David at a seder recently. My dining companion said my face turned a very unusual color.
Elizabelle
So the GOP might be between a rock and a hard Pence?
Fair Economist
I’ll bet you made memories for a lot of people that day!!
MattF
@Elizabelle: It was a joke, I guess.
Quinerly
@gogol’s wife:
Not if Mrs. Greenspan has anything to do with it. She wants to talk about Terry McAuliffe.
pseudonymous in nc
As James Hamblin predicted last night on the Twitters, this long out of the spotlight would be enough to make Trump say or do something crazy.
Elizabelle
@gogol’s wife: Not so fast.
The press in this country is so awful, I see them hailing Paul Ryan as a savior and us ending up with GOP Supreme Court justices.
Gin & Tonic
Isn’t Il Donaldo scheduled to do a Reddit AMA tonight? That should go just swimmingly.
Quinerly
@pseudonymous in nc:
Let’s hope Liz Warren piles on today.
gogol's wife
@Elizabelle:
Paul Ryan can’t beat Hillary.
Skippy-san
Even worse was watching the sick f*cks at Fox try to defend it. I was sitting in a hotel lounge with some Americans who cheered it. I weep for my country.
BR
@Kay:
I’m missing your front-page posts Kay, especially in this crazy season.
FlipYrWhig
@Elizabelle: A huge portion of his campaign is based on contempt and shamelessness. If he wasn’t a crazy person with a big mouth and brass balls, he wouldn’t be their candidate. I can’t see him suffering significantly at the polls for a stunt like this. I think the people it hurts him with are the money people and the consultant/advisor types in the GOP. But they’ve pretty much already given up on him anyway. Maybe it’ll help the media stop seeing him as a cute, wacky lifestyle story.
Emma
@gogol’s wife: Not yet. Not yet. At least not until after the convention is over. Softly, softly.
dedc79
Am I guilty of “Both sides do it” if I claim that Jill Stein is as crazy as Donald Trump?
Try and wrap your heads around that.
Trentrunner
If they’re interested: Trump just handed the Dems a great wedge with the “sought after” white non-college men: Russian interference in US affairs.
hovercraft
He’s been under wraps since his convention ended, apart from the VFW speech yesterday, and Clinton has been getting all the media attention, and they keep hiding his phone, so he put his foot down and declared that America deserves to hear his pearls of wisdom, not all this claptrap about equality and kumbaya. And now everyone is accusing him of being Putin’s bitch and the rating are beating his, DAMMIT he will NOT BE SILENCED
Elizabelle
@gogol’s wife: He could, with an able assist from our wired for Republicans press, going full Gore on Hillary the unlikeable and untrustworthy. What you guys report about MSNBC is chilling.
Lot of cynical, frightened and not overly intelligent people out there.
Major Major Major Major
@Elizabelle: oh. shit.
germy
I looked on youtube and saw his press conference is there. I watched a few minutes, but I really don’t want to watch him speak for an hour
Is there anyone here who saw the whole thing who can give me the Cliff’s Notes version?
Any quotes that stand out from the usual? I saw his remark about “I hope the russians saw her emails”
Percysowner
@Quinerly: Can the party force Trump out? Or would he have to resign? Because I’m not sure I see him resigning. The Repubs must be having a fit. If they can’t get him to decide to quit the race they are stuck between saying a man who wants a foreign power to to commit cyperterrorism and a woman they hate with every fiber of their being.
I hope Trump has food tasters, because I think there are some who wouldn’t mind getting him out of the way permanently.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
McCain, Graham, Ryan, McConnell,…hey Nikki Haley, still intend to ‘of course’ vote Trump? Hey Pat Toomey? Hey hey, Marco Rubio? Wassup Ted Cruz? Let us hear from all of you guys and gals!
MattF
@dedc79: Um, what?
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
MD 20-20 is a good name for a motor oil. A drink, not so much.
germy
when Hollywood gets around to releasing a major motion picture about Cole’s life (which actor will play him?) I imagine this scene will be in the Red Band trailer.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: Check out Olivia Nuzzi on Twitter for a good selection of quotes.
gogol's wife
I just noticed the word “Kennywood” in Cole’s post. Is that a Kenny Rogers theme park? That enhances the vomit factor for me.
AnotherBruce
@Trentrunner: Yes, yes he did. Thanks for making that point. It may not persuade many of them. But it will persuade some.
Patricia Kayden
@MFA: LOL. Who will star in the movie about John’s life? I’d watch the hell out of that movie.
Punchy
I’m no spook or spook-handler, but I’d think that a Presidential nominee openly advocating for a foreign power to hack the mother country’s computers to steal secrets would be damn near a Code Red for holy shit, we’re about to be outed.
Obama really needs to address this, and address it FIRMLY. This is going way too far into open sedition.
Davis X. Machina
@TrentrunnerRussian interference in US affairs isn’t going to be a turn-off if you think Russia’s the one non-pussified country still doing things right. I mean, now that they’re capitalist and everything.
NickM
I hate to say it – I’m a worrier but not an alarmist — but the Constitution assumed good faith and sobriety — citizens capable of governing themselves under law. It’s not prepared to deal with the shitstorm that’s headed our way. I’m not sure what will happen when we hit a dispute that can’t be resolved by reference to the Constitution, but I’m sure we’re headed there.
Quinerly
@germy:
I think the NY Times has a piece up as breaking news. My babble in the prior thread can give you a flavor. There were several of us going back and forth. Oh the sacrifices that some make? I wasn’t prepared. Accidently fell into it. Not even 100% sure what I just saw.
gogol's wife
@Davis X. Machina:
This is what worries me. A lot of Putin supporters in Russia closely resemble our Trump supporters. Law and order, racism, misogyny, let’s stop being humiliated, etc., etc., etc.
Davis X. Machina
@gogol’s wife: Amusement park outside Pittsburgh…
MattF
@gogol’s wife: And they’re dealing with the losers. What’s not to like?
rl
@Runt: ordered by the RNC to pee on the dumpster fire
daves09
@dedc79: What the hell? That is Trump level gibberish.
Would you take climate change for abortion rights? What in sweet baby jeebuses name does that mean? Or maybe she’s been hitting the mad dog.
bluehill
@Punchy: I read somewhere that Trump doesn’t need or won’t be required to have a security clearance in order to receive briefings. Anyone know if that’s true.
Patricia Kayden
@Matt McIrvin: Exactly. The Donald cannot help but keep shooting himself in the feet. Let’s see how long the media keeps pretending that he’s not hobbling along on broken feet.
Trump is Trump’s best argument that he is not fit to be President. Keep it up, Donald!
germy
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks.
AnotherBruce
@Jeffro: I’m thinking they’re trying to clean up the blood and pieces of brain and skull on the floor from their exploding heads before they can figure out what to say about Trump.
gogol's wife
The Russian trolls have showed up on the thread below. Watch out!
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Davis X. Machina: Ahhh, someone got it. Sorry to tell you all this, in today’s GOP doing it like Putin is an asset, not a problem.
BR
@NickM:
Yeah, this is something that only a few in the media are picking up on. Trump would lead to immediate, multiple constitutional crises. And probably some members of the military disobeying his orders, leading to even more craziness.
Come to think of it, at this rate, we may be dealing with constitutional crises even if he loses but is close. Could you imagine him conceding? He’d file lawsuits immediately and claim he won and try to force the electoral college to vote differently.
Kay
He thinks Kaine is Kean. Oh, well. He told them he doesn’t read anything. He meant it.
John Cole
@Elizabelle: Groan. People have been banned for less.
trollhattan
@Davis X. Machina:
At least Al Davis knew how to rock a jumpsuit. I’d pay money to watch Donald go full late-Elvis, spangled jumpsuit and gold cape. Winning!
sidhra
@Punchy: Open sedition, and boldly, proudly proclaimed. He’d hand over intel to the FSB.
Amir Khalid
What are the chances of the FBI (or whichever agency has jurisdiction) dropping by at Trump campaign HQ for a quiet word with the candidate?
eric
Seventh Seal: https://twitter.com/DouthatNYT/status/758325167965757440
Bruce K
@Major Major Major Major: Point of order: I only said it might be their Kobayashi Maru moment. If they were sane, they’d have realized they were in the no-win scenario months ago, but there are a lot of people over there who are bright, unprincipled, and – at this point – desperate…
trollhattan
@John Cole:
Leave the punstress aloooooooone!
dedc79
@daves09: I’ve been spending some time (too much time) trying to figure out.
She appears to believe the following
1) President Hillary Clinton won’t do anything about climate change
2) Donald Trump’s SCOTUS nominees may not be bad, but even if they are, his presidency will be so awful that it will prompt a green revolution that will solve climate change. Abortion rights may be lost during the interim, oh well.
celticdragonchick
@AnotherBruce:
Yep. I started getting the jackboots feel a couple of months ago and it is getting worse.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: Zero, IMO.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
Can’t envision this being under their purview. Now, some mental health officials….
Brent
@Amir Khalid: Its a very cheap (and completely disgusting) fortified wine.
Miss Bianca
@John Cole: really? Plays on words are ban-worthy? Upun any subject at all, or just politics?
Jeffro
Only thing we can do is
1) publicly encourage top GOP officials (Ryan, Pence, Kaisch would be a good trio) to disavow Trump’s comments and ask him to resign his nomination for the good of the party and country
2) publicly call out national reporters to hold Trump’s feet to the fire on the treason question, Russian connections, and of course his tax returns
I’m serious – time for action here
amk
May be dems could spin this as how donnie, for all his bluster, is preemptively surrendering to the russians
trollhattan
@dedc79:
Dear lord, I’m worried about the unicorns!
Jeffro
@AnotherBruce: Well, they better pick the pieces up quick, grow a spine, and start. holding. him. accountable.
If Clinton had done the reverse, there would be mobs of wingers in the streets already…
Gelfling 545
@EconWatcher: The only hope I see is that some folks who subscribe to Trumps other, well, let’s call them ideas, still seem to retain a cold war tupe of outlook towards Russia.
MattF
@AnotherBruce: Oh, yeah. I noted a couple of days ago that FDR’s line, “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” suddenly makes a lot more sense than it used to.
Miss Bianca
@dedc79: There is so much damn derp in that article that I can’t even wrap my head around it. Seriously?!
NickM
@BR: Exactly. He’ll never concede. One could easily see a close (or even not so close!) state or states, and some fuck-ups somewhere, and a split Supreme Court, and Ginsburg’s “prejudice”, etc. – and can you imagine Trump having the ultimate sense of civic responsibility of Al Gore to put country before self and not to test the system? Unless the guy strokes out, we won’t be able to avoid it, I’m afraid.
And the one crazy Bernie or Buster I’ve been arguing with on FB tells me so what Russia’s hacking us and manipulating our election? We do the same thing to other countries, plus we bomb other countries too. Chickens/roost.
Jeffro
@dedc79:
So easily refuted, even my 5th grader could do it…
1) 1M tons of evidence to the contrary…HRC will do it, it’s the GOP congress that won’t let it through
2a) We won’t have a country if he’s elected 2b) what’s the probability that the Green party will take power this election? 0.01%? If so, then a vote for anyone but HRC is a vote for Trump…and therefore, see 2a
? Martin
@NickM: I hate to mention it, but democracies rely on the same ‘rational actor’ assumptions that free market economics does, and you can see how often that flies off the rails.
MattF
@BR: One good reason why it really needs to be not-close.
Miss Bianca
@NickM: Someone’s making that identical argument just one thread over….h’mm…
Matt McIrvin
@dedc79: Or maybe she’s contrasting the opportunity to signal your disapproval of climate change (by voting for Jill Stein, even if it actually elects the guy who believes climate change is a Chinese hoax) with actually having abortion rights. In which case, damn straight, I’d take abortion rights.
Patricia Kayden
@MattF: But you survived and didn’t puke on everyone so there’s that.
@Elizabelle: How is this not straight up illegal? Talk about Teflon Don.
Calouste
@Percysowner:
Trump has already basically said that he is willing to give the Baltics to Putin. So Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania can choose between getting invaded and occupied by Russia or serving Trump a very dodgy prawn cocktail during a state dinner.
Steeplejack
@Amir Khalid:
It’s a soft drink with 7.5% alcohol, a.k.a. “bum wine.”
scav
If it would win him a news cycle, Trump would probably call for an actual invasion.
Leto
Didn’t Cole have a book deal lined up to publish most of his classic rants/free form thought experiments in a nice coffee table compendium? Whatever happened to that? This needs to be added to that.
geg6
@gogol’s wife:
Kennywood is a legendary old fashioned amusement park with some of the best wooden roller coasters in America (also has good more modern coasters) in Pittsburgh. They haves rides that are historical landmarks. Was also featured in the movie Adventureland, where it was filmed.
MJS
@Kay: If anything “good” can be said to come from RedState, at least that group of conservatives are not okay with any of this. They are all over Trump’s ties to Russia, his lies, etc., to the point where they are even apparently developing a movie titled, “The Sociopath” or some such.
SiubhanDuinne
@trollhattan:
I know. It’s not even an opun thread.
germy
\@Jeffro:
You’d prefer a more competitive republican opponent for Hillary? Why should we worry about the good of their party?
Archon
Frankly I got to chuckle at those that think after everything Donald Trump has said the past year that this press conference (and his comment about Russia) might be the thing that actually causes his support to collapse or for GOP bigwigs to repudiate his candidacy. To most Republicans, Democrats are their true enemies that need to be destroyed, not Russia. If anything they think Russia would be doing the country a favor by exposing Hillary’s “treasonous” emails.
These are not normal times, this is not a normal candidacy and the Republicans are not a normal party. Everything that happens in the next 4 months should be seen through that prism.
piratedan
well…. considering the lengths that the GOP has gone before to accept, if not condone his behavior, I am quite curious if this will be the actual tipping point for the GOP. Because essentially advocating for a foreign state to perform illegal acts in order to promote your own candidacy is simply too fucking out there to be believed.
Reverse the players, if it was the Dems, asking the Chinese or the French to hack the IRS and dump that information regarding Donald Trump’s tax returns (and say those of the folks that had donated to a Tea Party PAC, for instance ala Wikileaks)… what would be the expected, anticipated response?
If the media “smooths” this over, then they are essentially done as far as I am concerned. Same for anyone in the GOP that tries to explain this away. You fuckers coddled this shit. Time to put on the grown up pants and try and make this right by coming clean.
This is The Bridge Too Far politically and all of you fuckers (the Media and the GOP) know it.
AnotherBruce
@Jeffro: I hate to say it, but they’re going to try to dance around this, these people don’t really give a damn about any interests but their own. I hope I’m wrong.
MattF
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t mind punning, but our host seems to be sensitive about it.
SenyorDave
@germy: when Hollywood gets around to releasing a major motion picture about Cole’s life (which actor will play him?) I imagine this scene will be in the Red Band trailer.
I vote for Nick Nolte
germy
@SenyorDave: Nick Nolte can play the teenaged Cole.
D58826
@Elizabelle: He al;so said that he would consider recognizing the Russian annexation of Crimea (assuming he knows where it is). Putin is getting a great ROI on this guy
Gin & Tonic
Leaving aside the insanity for a moment, is there a non-wingnut explanation for “30,000 missing e-mails”? I’m afraid to Google that right now.
Tom Levenson
Mad Dog!!!!!!?????
That is all.
(ETA: Not discussing my first hand knowledge of this. Not now. Not ever.)
cain
@gogol’s wife:
Also sounds like the people in post-WW1 Germany.
bluehill
Trumps comments are trending on twitter, so the repubs are going to have to say something. Looking forward to what Tom Cotton has to say. Here’s how he responded when previously asked about Trump’s friendliness with Putin. Country First (except if you’re running for office)!
HARWOOD: One of the questions that has been raised about Donald Trump is, “Is he more friendly with Russia than it is in America’s best interests to be?”
COTTON: Vladimir Putin was a KGB spy and he never got over that. He does not have America’s best interests at heart and he does not have any American interests at heart. I suspect, after this week, when Donald Trump is the nominee and he begins to receive classified briefings, similar briefings to what I receive as a member of the Intelligence Committee, he may have a different perspective on Vladimir Putin and what Russia is doing to America’s interests and allies in Europe and the Middle East and Asia.
germy
Did trump get Tim Kaine mixed up with Tom Kean? The republican who was governor of NJ?
details… details…
Patricia Kayden
@Amir Khalid: Don’t worry. Trump will tell us all about the FBI visit if it happens. In fact, he’ll hold a whole press conference just to make sure we hear all the juicy details because that’s how he rolls. Everything has to be about him because Trump only cares about Trump.
geg6
@SenyorDave:
I say John Goodman.
NickM
@Miss Bianca: Is the person making that argument you?
scav
Doubt it will make a difference, certainly not to true believers. And the media wants the race. They will milk the controversy for a teeny bit and then it will all roll away and disappear.
Caravelle
@germy: One could argue that someone like Trump having the credibility of being a major party’s nominee is bad for the country to begin with. One could also argue that as low as his odds of beating Hillary Clinton are, they’re too high for comfort and so lowering them by adding an “official” Republican nominee to the race would also be good for the country.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Someone was wrong on the Internet! MD 20/20 is more like 13.5% alcohol.
BR
@germy:
I think maybe a solution is for us to hit the phones like we did during Obamacare, calling every member of congress (preferably GOP) demanding they denounce Trump.
Someone fire up the Tim F. bat signal.
gindy51
I don’t think too many military folks who have served this country for decades are all that keen on handing over the keys to the kingdom to someone who pals around with Communists. If my USMCR LtCol husband is any indication of that sentiment, Trump may lose even worse than he was going to. No one likes to see what they gave 20 plus years of their life to treated like a piece of trash.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Though I was amused to see the father so instantly dismiss the son’s ambition. Somebody compared it to what Poppy Bush should have done with his two sons’ political ambitions (that somebody being somebody who still thinks Jeb is smart and decent, I don’t)
Patricia Kayden
@bluehill:
Nope. That hasn’t happened, Senator Cotton. That is not going to ever happen, Senator Cotton. This is how Trump would behave if he wins in November.
Citizen Alan
@dedc79:
What this ridiculous woman (Stein) doesn’t understand is that the true nightmare scenario is Trump appointing justices who agree with Clarence Thomas that Wickard v. Filburn was wrongly decided and, accordingly, that the Environmental Protection Act (along with nearly ever other piece of progressive legislation since FDR) is unconstitutional. That would make it literally impossible for the federal government to address climate change in any way for generations (assuming it would EVER be possible to realign the court again).
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Uh, Jeff, I’m sure Russia *does* spy on the US. The difference is he wants them to do so for his own benefit.
Miss Bianca
@NickM: what, the Bernie or Buster “both countries do it” argument? Nah – that would not be me.
? Martin
@Gin & Tonic: About 30K emails were not turned over in (one of) the email investigations on the claim they were private. May or may not be true, but certainly underscores why running a shadow mail server is just a bad idea.
For the record, I think it was a bad idea, I completely understand why she did it, no she shouldn’t go to jail for it, and I’m satisfied given she has quite clearly stated that it was a mistake.
Soylent Green
Sure, on alternate universe Earth. On this one, they will brush it off as Trump being colorful with his words (i.e., he didn’t really mean it). And so will everyone else on their side.
SiubhanDuinne
@MattF:
Elizabelle should have been in that new Hostbusters movie.
Quinerly
@Archon:
I have agreed with what you are saying…up to today. Unfortunately, I have watched and listened to more Trump than I care to admit b/c I now am semi retired and work from home. He is getting more unhinged…a health type of thing…the breathing, the mania, more free associating, more inappropriate behavior. He’s not even the person he was 4 months ago when it comes to keeping it together. I really think there is a possibility that there might be an intervention.
cain
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Absolutely right. Today, Russia is a country to be admired not scorned. The days of them being commie’s are long past. With drumpf we will forge a new relationship with Russia and create a new geo power. Christ.
Of course, we now have Russia helping this asshole to win. This is what we are reduced to now? Jeezus. Conservatism is officially dead. Moreso, these guys believe us progressives are the enemy/traitors not Russian politicos.
liberal
@Runt: That’s entirely consistent with Trump taking all 17 sides of every issue.
MattF
@gindy51: I don’t think Trump has a clue about how actual military people react to him.
AliceBlue
What has Terry McAuliffe said/done?
PhoenixRising
@Quinerly:
Who is this ‘they’ of which you speak?
The penny drops, I hope: They, the GOP, have no power or influence over the insurgent outsider. The party has nominated him, and he’s going to be on the ballot. There is no one holding the tiger Republicans have been riding for the past 45 years; they structured their primary process to prevent another bland also-ran, and boy howdy did they get what they ostensibly wanted–a candidate who is re-branding the party with a new image.
Unfortunately that brand is starting to look like a swastika, but…
This is really quite frightening. Not that he’s crazier and stupider than even I thought, the response from supposedly serious people at that press conference.
RK
Trump supporters like Putin because they like authoritarians and Hillary’s the sworn enemy not him. Trump’s words also often matter less than the attitude they project which may be why a lot of what he says doesn’t do the damage one would expect.
? Martin
@germy: He quite clearly did. Made that mistake twice, had to be corrected. I mean, the guy doesn’t even fucking know who he’s running against.
Leto
@gindy51: The older, saner NCO’s are making this argument (can’t speak for the O side). There is still a fairly large percentage who recognize the danger the orange ballsack represents, but still will not vote for HRC. They’re either not going to vote at all or they might vote Johnson. And then there’s the smaller insane contingent who are die-hard Trumpeters. Those people I’ve written off.
Patricia Kayden
@piratedan:
I feel like we’re watching a car driving in the wrong direction towards a cliff and we’re powerless to do anything about it because the driver is intent on ignoring our cries of “You’re going the wrong way!”
Hope that we can jump out of the car before it goes over the cliff by rallying our side to vote like hell in November. I have no problem letting the Media and GOP go over the cliff with the car and its intentionally deaf driver.
liberal
@Archon:
The only thing those f*ckers care about is how much taxes they have to pay.
NickM
@Miss Bianca: Miscommunication – sorry! I thought you meant the constitutional crisis argument, which is not too original at all, I’m sure. I mostly lurk and know you’re not a buster.
liberal
@germy: Just do it after filing deadlines have passed.
rikyrah
I didn’t watch, but just read the transcript to Bubba’s speech last night. Reading it, it was quite good. It painted a portrait of a man whose life has been shaped by this woman whose values of service were there the minute he met her. Also verified something we always knew – Bill lucked out when he married Hillary.
Elizabelle
Who do you think will start the “establishment” response to Trump?
Are Ryan et al sitting around in pools of urine at the moment, or are they sharks circling in the water?
I have no sympathy for the Republicans. As VP, we have Tim Kaine (that’s Gov. Tom Kean to D.J. Trump). They have Mike Pence.
I always wondered how the Trump kids did not stage an intervention earlier, since it’s been obvious he is going to tank their brand for months now. I guess his ego and their cluelessness (and ambition?) might explain.
Skippy-san
@gogol’s wife: Kennywood is an amusement park in Pittsburgh.
The Dangerman
I don’t know what his excuse will be but this fucker (who is showing more and more signs of something medical going on) has no intention of showing up to a debate.
eric
Trump is an unbridled id, and sometimes the id wants to hate on people just because. that rings true to a good number of people who cant do or say the things they want or used to do.
guachi
@Trentrunner:
I posted about the hacking and election interference on my Facebook a few days ago because it bothered me. Said it seemed there were Americans who hated Hillary more than they cared about Russian manipulation of elections. I got some responses.
My two obvious Hillary supporters liked my post. Three of my friends (all educated white men in their 30s) were more concerned about “corruption” and Hillary.
One is a BoB, one is a libertarian, one is a standard conservative.
It’s only a sample. But I honestly thought pushing back against Russia might work. It still might with more evidence of hacking.
But, my God, the Clinton Derangement Syndrome is strong.
I can’t believe I even had a good right wing Christian friend (really. He’s the kind of person who really tries to do good. Not a hater. Doesn’t hate Muslims. Doesn’t hate gays) who tried to come up with a list of reasons to vote Trump. He hates Hillary that much. Was probably persuaded to not throw his vote away in Johnson.
cain
@Archon:
You can thank 24 hour news and a press wired for republicans for this. They have enabled all of this with their ‘both sides do it’ mentality. They have fucked up this country. I want to see every one of these 24 hour news channel DIE. Luckily millenials don’t watch much cable tv and definitely don’t sit around watching the news, so hopefully we will see the end of these channels.
Emma
@srv: *snicker* *gigglesnort* Really?
Miss Bianca
@NickM: Nae worries, laddie. I should have quoted the relevant bit for clarity. : )
Thor Heyerdahl
@geg6:
We need a some John “Shut the fuck up Donny” Goodman this election cycle.
germy
@The Dangerman:
“I don’t debate criminals!”
Bobby Thomson
@dedc79: Jesus. Ralph “gonadal politics” in a dress.
sherparick
@pseudonymous in nc: Yep. Remember that Hitler becomes Chancellor on January 30, 1933 and just six weeks later they were setting up Dachau concentration camp. Remember that the only thing standing in the way of a Trump dictatorship after January 20, 2017 will be John Roberts, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell and their caucuses. As long as Trump gives them tax cuts for rich people, drill and build pipelines everywhere, and listing Planned Parenthood as a terrorist organization, they will do everything he asks and not say a word as he sets up the concentration camps across the country.
b1narys3rf
@Gin & Tonic:
Yes, he is doing one. If you have reddit accounts, please ask the most uncomfortable but substantive questions you can during Vladimir Drumpf’s AMA tonight. And if you don’t have an account yet, create an account and give yourself a crash course.
The shitshow will happen here at 7pm: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA
Reddit account creation here: https://www.reddit.com/login
Reddit FAQ here: https://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq
Since reddit is infamous for being a nest of Bernie dead-enders and Drumpf “Alt-Right” basement dwellers, I recommend you screenshot your questions after submittal along with The Donald’s likely ignoring you/any nasty replies from other users, if for no other reason than you can prove later just how authoritarian and disgusting these boys are…and use such material as you wish.
Thank you.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Think Trump may have finally gone too far. CNN, which loves him, is blowing up and not in a good way for Trump.
Punchy
Cleek’s then, Cleek’s now, and Cleek’s going forward. It drives every single decision the GOP makes, full stop period aaaaaaand cut.
Since Putin hates HIllary, they must love him. Should he mysteriously switch sides, the GOP will immediately flip. Sure as shit in an Olympic triathlete’s mouth.
Emma
@rikyrah: It was most excellent, except that he’s showing his age — but it was a paean of love to his “best friend.”
sherparick
@liberal: Yep.
pseudonymous in nc
@germy:
Honestly, right now I’d take a GOP replacement nominee with a fair chance of winning than somebody unhinged who might tell his mob to do god knows what. That sounds like hostage negotiation, I know, and I still think there’s enough sanity in the US to make the outcome in November not even close, but as Madeleine Albright said, the Trump campaign has already done damage to US foreign policy, and the general election campaign hasn’t yet begun.
Miss Bianca
@Citizen Alan: As I mentioned upthread, there is so much derp in this article that it’s hard to know what to highlight, but this part made me howl a little:
See, this is what infuriates me about American Greens: even more than the Libertarians, they are fundamentally unserious about the process of running for and winning office. Unlike their European counterparts.
MattF
@Emma: I think I’ve genuinely lost the thread here.
Aleta
“Wouldn’t it be nice if we all got along,” he says, dreaming of the Soviet Gulag system.
There’s a 1:1 correspondence between how much he needs to divert attention of the press from a subject, and how out of bounds insane his remarks. The suggestions of Russian money and timed release from Russian hackers hit pay dirt perhaps.
dedc79
@Citizen Alan: I think he has said he wanted to do away with the Department of Environmental Protection. That’s the name of NJ’s environmental agency and, surprise, surprise, he confused it with EPA.
As of others have noted he also confused Tim Kaine with Tom Kean, a former Republican governor of NJ.
It’s making me think his brain stopped functioning sometime in the 1980s, when he was still heavily invested in NJ casinos.
gogol's wife
@Skippy-san:
I was working on the “Dollywood” analogy, esp. since they sang a famous duet. I’m wrong!
JudyinSD
@SenyorDave: I vote for Kurt Russell.
Steeplejack
@SenyorDave, @germy:
Jonah Hill.
Kay
@srv:
Media were buying Trump’s “press conference” thing for a while. Then they noticed he calls them “press conferences” but often doesn’t take any questions. He really believes no one will notice. You could say it’s some kind of mental illness, but I;m not a professional and I’m not that generous. It’s ego and a life of privilege.
glory b
@gogol’s wife: Big amusement park in Pittsburgh, has been called the roller coaster capital of the world.
Lizzy L
CDS is incredibly strong. I have some afflicted friends who believe that Hillary Clinton is more of a danger to the country than KGB manipulation of our election process. They still plan to vote for Trump.
MattF
@Aleta: Good point.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Davis X. Machina:
Great call! Trump is the Al Davis of politics.
sigaba
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Used to say he was the new Wally George but Wally would’ve never gone this far.
Kathleen
@Betty Cracker: Sounds like a typical broadcast day at Fox. Or a Glenn Beck meltdown.
sherparick
@MattF: The problem is we are taught obedience, particularly to civilians who are placed by Constitutional means in authority over us. People can refuse to obey what they think is an illegal order, but you have also committed a possible crime yourself (possible obedience of an order, the determination of its lawfulness or not is up to a court martial and who will be appointing a court martial). So he fires people and keeps firing them until finds one who obeys his orders.
MattF
@Kay: Press conference = Performance with some limited audience participation.
Betty Cracker
Interesting that during the presser, Trump threw out the line that Putin had called PBO “the n-word.” (Is this true? I hadn’t heard about it, and Trump’s word is worth less than nothing.) Totally in non-sequitur fashion. Did he bring that up as a signal to his white nationalist base that Putin is one of them?
? Martin
@Lizzy L: And that blame should fall on the GOP for poisoning the well so badly that when the serious ones who later determine that Clinton would be far better than Trump plead to the electorate to vote Clinton, the electorate returns to say ‘but you told me for 20 years that she killed people, that she was the most horrible person in this country’.
sherparick
One thing you can say about Trump, he may lie about everything else, but he is not lying about what kind of “President” he would be and that he will assume the role of the Big Boss. He shares that also with Hitler and Mussolini who clearly stated that they intended to establish a dictatorships, and clean up the country and “restore greatness” if given the power of the State.
Aleta
Has he been rehearsing hand poses in his mirror? They looked so crisp and formal today (yet sadly not yet presidential). I got a little mesmerized by them, especially the one that he held up like he was a reproduction of a Boddhisatva.
gogol's wife
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know what it could possibly mean. Putin doesn’t speak English, and there is no n-word in Russian. The polite term for a black person is “negr,” so maybe that’s what’s confusing him. Why would Trump say that anyway?
sigaba
@Betty Cracker: In Russian the colloquial word for a black African person is “negr,” and maybe Trump overheard him use that word. But in Russian it carries no racist connotation.
The actual word “black” in Russian, tchiorny, by the way, is how Russians usually describe people from Azerbaijan and the Caucuses. And even if Putin is not casually racist it’s pretty well known the United Russia party combines a lot of old racists that had been underground throughout the Communist era, like the Black Hundreds.
MattF
@gogol’s wife: We’re all pals here in Thug City.
Leto
@sherparick: Well if he can find more people like Lt Gen Michael Flynn…
Lizzy L
@? Martin: Yes, it should. But that would require the country to have a free and functioning press, and an electorate that can think. I see few signs of either.
Also, from TPM:
Dr. Ada Fisher, a member of the Republican National Committee representing North Carolina, has an interesting theory about the hack of Democratic National Committee emails.
At Trump’s rally in North Carolina on Tuesday, Fisher told The Guardian that the controversy over the DNC hack is “a false flag to cover up [Clinton]’s transgressions” and “probably the biggest lie I’ve seen.”
Since emails from DNC staffers were published by Wikileaks last weak, U.S. officials have begun investigating whether Russian hackers were responsible for the leak.
Questions about Russia’s involvement and its potential interest in influencing the 2016 election have put the Donald Trump campaign on the defensive. During a Wednesday morning interview on CBS’ “This Morning,” Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort said that questions about Russia’s involvement in the hack are “an absurd attempt by the Clinton campaign to try to get the focus off of” Clinton’s private email server.
TPM readers may remember Fisher from her 2006 run for Congress, after which it was revealed that BMW Direct, the political firm in charge of her fundraising, kept most of the money it raised for the firm’s own expenses.
BR
@Betty Cracker:
From your lips to Josh Marshall’s ears.
Tenar Darell
It’s not a new feeling for me, but I feel like we’ve been watching the GOP pith themselves on an endlessly escalating loop for years.
(But at this point today I’m really beginning to wonder how many things Trump could be diagnosed as having actually physically wrong with him. Why? Because this press conference was just so bad I want there to be an explanation).
Cermet
Even ResState is appalled and finds that even for tRump, this is just too over the top to believe. Insanity is far too imprecise a word for the Rumps behavior.
Quinerly
@The Dangerman:
There is no way he could function in a two person debate. Much less get through 3, all while campaigning and dealing with day to day life. I have to assume one is a town hall type situation like one was 2008/2012. I can’t see him taking a hard question from a regular person. His speeches are just words, attacks, practiced phrases. He can’t answer basic questions in a press conference without sounding unhinged. The guy that ghost wrote the Art of the Deal said he has the attention span of a gnat. That’s 30 years ago. How on earth do they even get him settled enough for prep….briefing books. No way. Nobody can tell him anything. That’s his personality. He was already jumbling up simple names, states, numbers today. There has been a change in him…plus he won’t be sharing the stage with a bunch of men. He’ll be sharing it with a brilliant woman. He couldn’t even take a basic question from Meagan Kelly without making an ass of himself.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Patricia Kayden:
Paul Giamatti IS John Cole in the one movie you have to see this summer….
Patricia Kayden
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Means nothing to Trump supporters who refer to CNN as the “Clinton News Network”. Unfortunately, Trump calling on a foreign enemy to hack his opponent’s emails and to interfere with our election will have zero impact on his diehard supporters. In fact, I’m sure they want Russia to hack into Secretary Clinton and other Democrats’ email accounts. For starters, none of them are upset that the Russians are behind the Wikileaks hack into DNC’s email accounts.
Betty Cracker
@gogol’s wife: It was really creepy. He said Putin doesn’t respect HRC and doesn’t respect Obama and had called him the n-word but that Putin would respect Trump. This is a deeply fucked up individual. That’s not news, of course. But I don’t think I’d truly realized the extent of his derangement until today. Even the CNN gasbags were shocked.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Davis X. Machina:
Plus, they have a lot of hawt women!
Blueskies
@Percysowner:
Trump is cheering a foreign power on to commit cyberterrorism AGAINST HIS OWN COUNTRY and he’s running to be elected Commander-in-Chief.
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?!
Matt McIrvin
When does someone ask him if he realizes they must be gathering dirt on him, too? Maybe saving it up for when he’s in the White House?
Lizzy L
I would expect more pushback from the Republicans. They aren’t going to fold over this.
Jeffro
@germy:
That’s not what would happen – if the more principled (and I use the term loosely) Republicans would step up and point out that Trump is so far beyond the pale, he ought to step down, then a) he probably wouldn’t anyway, but b) whether he does or not, the whole GOP would go to war and get this over with. That’s what they can’t bring themselves to do…yet.
And if for some reason he did step down and Kaisch stepped in, Trump’s supporters would not fall right in line. No worries here that some last-minute replacement can or would step in for Trump and sweep the election – there are no plausible scenarios where that works.
Jeffro
@AnotherBruce: I hope you’re wrong too! lol
Dork
@Cermet: But they’ll vote for him, every last one of them.
Joyce H
I remember when the story of Russia hacking the DNC was first reported, and the news reports said that one of the things downloaded was the DNC’s complete opposition research file on Trump. So – not only do we have the possibility of a president with close financial relations with a hostile foreign power, but also one on which the hostile foreign power has a complete dossier of damaging or embarrassing information. Sure sounds like a security risk to me. And it seems to me that in order to neutralize this security risk, the DNC owes it to the nation to release their oppo research on Trump. All of it. The Russians have it. The American public should have it too.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
So Cole was the inspiration for this, then?
Patricia Kayden
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Good suggestion. It would be a blockbuster, I tell ya. John has a very colorful life and Giamatti would win another Academy award for his portrayal. A large rotating cast of dogs and cats would play all of his pets.
germy
Uh… no, I certainly can’t.
D58826
@Gin & Tonic: According to Mrs. Greenspan, at the time it was up to the sec. of state to determine what was public and what was private. Hillary made the determination and deleted the private e-mails. Just like her predecessors.
The Dangerman
@Quinerly:
I didn’t subject myself to the torture of watching, but he’s been jumbling up stuff for a while; if he was a normal person, his kids would be asking for the car keys (as if he drives himself, ever). Instead, he runs for President. Strange fucking days we live in.
Patricia Kayden
@Joyce H:
Agreed. Might as well release it now since Wikileaks has released cherry picked items to make the DNC look horrid.
dmsilev
@Cermet: RedState has been anti-Trump for a while; they’re TedCruz country.
Quinerly
@Joyce H:
Actually, I think that was a separate hacking. It was the oppo file that a campaign person with HRC’s campaign was putting together on Manafort. I do see your point, though.
bupalos
@Betty Cracker: I caught that Betty, and it was my exact thought. It was in the stream-of-consciousness context of “Russia can’t get along with him, Putin uses the N-word, wouldn’t it be nice if there was someone Putin could get along with.”
Trump’s stream of consciousness is his great political strength, it’s like a pure and complex dog-whistle. And it’s because there is no interpretation, no one is willing to go to that wavelength. No one can say “wait, you just said Putin uses the n-word and can’t get along with our black president, and you think he will get along with you. Is that because of the ethnic thing? That you are of a more similar ethnic stock to him? Or why do you mention the n-word here….”
Jeffro
@pseudonymous in nc:
Thank you, I think you put it better than I could. I’d like someone else in there because it’s getting clearer every day that a Trump presidency is not just a ‘bad time’ or ‘rough patch’ for the country (and hence, the world).
We’ve had some erratic folks in the Oval Office, we’ve had some dimwits, we’ve had some folks with anger issues, we’ve had some narcissists. We’ve never had someone, one person, with all four traits to the Nth degree AND the ability to wreck the economy AND the ability to order our troops here, there, & everywhere before (to say nothing of orders to use nukes, which I do believe the military would disregard)
Again…reasonable conservatives can make a case that in their view that Clinton is wrong on every issue. What they must admit is that at least she is wrong within normal parameters. (h/t PJ O’Rourke). Trump is not even close to being fit for the office of dogcatcher.
Miss Bianca
@Patricia Kayden: @Joyce H: At this point, I guess my position would be: “Why the hell not?”
But I’d wait till after the Convention to do it…
Mike E
When I heard Trump foghorn his way thru that VFW speech, I thot he’d lost his ability to modulate his speaking voice and was on a tilt…GOP, heh, you can’t uncarve that pumpkin now!
dmsilev
@Blueskies: It’s literally the definition of treason. And I don’t mean Biden literally, I mean literally literally. Aid and comfort to enemies of the United States, domestic and foreign.
Peale
@Patricia Kayden: yep. We don’t know what is true or not and the oppo research file would be full of things which they were in the process of verifying. I’m all in favor of releasing unverified rumors about a scoundrel, though.
catclub
@Patricia Kayden: I would guess John Goodman for anything over 30.
Punchy
@Quinerly: This has been on my mind for weeks. Just how can a guy so “good” at ad libbing hateful shit, lobbing hateful smears and lies, and so able to control the press perform in a structured debate? The questions to be answered are pre-written, many requiring pretty objective answers using quite a bit of real knowledge. He’s on an island with no wikipedia at his disposal. I’m guessing every single answer will be “I have no idea, but I’ll hire the best guys to find out!” and the MSM will dutifully nod their heads and stroke their chins and assume it’s a legit response.
He cannot back out of every debate, can he?
Poopyman
@Quinerly:
Yeah, when someone puts the pistol into Pence’s quaking hands and quietly says “It’s up to you now.”
Or maybe I’ve watched too many movies.
Davis X. Machina
@Punchy:
He can’t go all campaign without releasing his tax returns, can he?
Quinerly
@Poopyman:
?
Patricia Kayden
@bupalos:
That’s a political strength? Running your mouth without any filter is a good thing?
kd bart
It truly is Eric Cartman as a Presidential candidate.
Vor
Trump makes Mitt look like the sane alternative.
bluehill
@Lizzy L: Wow, cognitive dissonance is strong with this one. I guess she’s just like her dear leader; much easier to believe in conspiracy theories than accept the truth.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@gogol’s wife:
Yes, the execrable Islands in the Stream. Ugh.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
The national media’s beef with Hillary, as I understand it, is that she’s been refusing to give them a press conference or interview throughout the campaign. She’s more than capable of handling such an event, I’m sure of it, but she has a quarter-century’s worth of reasons to distrust them. She’ll obviously have to do it at some point, though, and she may just be waiting for the right moment.
Geoduck
@Cermet: RedState jumped on the hate-Trump bandwagon long before this. Of course, they hate Hillary, too, making reading their postings an experience in whiplash. They’re playing up Johnson’s campaign now.
daves09
@Miss Bianca: The MA. Pirate party. Gotta love it.
Quinerly
@Punchy:
He has obviously proved up to this point he can do anything he wants. More people are paying attention now, though. I think the press is really turning on him more. I’m beginning to think that HRC will pull enough sane Republican votes to make up for any pouty Bern Feelers. Especially if the polls look tight. Of course, they will never admit it. God, I hate typing on this phone…disjointed. Howard Dean wants to see Manafort’s taxes. He’s on fire right now. He’s calling out Manafort.
JMG
There is no way Trump will back out of the debates. That’d leave him open to the charge he’s afraid of a mere girl, and he couldn’t stand that at all. Since at his current pace, Trump will be at “all underwear to be worn on the outside” stage, these debates could be good TV for a change.
Gin & Tonic
@Punchy:
Sure he can. And he will.
Mr. Mack
This is a fun thread… So I’m wondering what happens if we win in November…but it’s close. Besides the inevitable cries of “No Mandate!” from the Right, given Trump’s litigious nature, he could keep this going well past Inauguration Day.
catclub
@Davis X. Machina: I wish the IRS would announce that years 2000-2010 tax forms are not under any audit,
so although they cannot release them, Trump could without the audit excuse..
Blueskies
@cain:
And how many remember how Newt got this ball rolling back in the day? Standing in front of an empty House just for the CSPAN cameras, declaring liberals and Democrats are the enemy. Fucking Newt, who’s being shortlisted for Trump’s cabinet, maybe SoS.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Patricia Kayden:
Buzz was that the late Grumpy Cat wanted to pack on some weight to play Tunch.
? Martin
@Amir Khalid: She’s done a few, but my guess is that doing them during the primaries wouldn’t have yielded her anything but questions about emails or about Sanders. No upside for her to do them because the press are more interested in their horserace stories than anything of substance.
After the conventions I think its more likely she’ll do them. All of the stuff with Sanders would be handled differently, the email stuff is now a completely different conversation, and she’s more likely to get questions that are meaningful.
Quinerly
@Geoduck:
“Feel the Johnson” I’m sure it’s been said before.?
PST
@catclub:
Maybe Chris Pratt for the early years, if he could recover his Parks and Rec form.
japa21
Every GOP candidate running for any office at any level, including dog catcher, needs to be asked the following question with follow-ups:
Do you agree with Trump’s asking Russia to hack the email accounts of American citizens?
If the answer is yes, ask why they consider Russia more important than the US and then run the ads calling that candidate a “possible Russian sympathizer”.
If the answer is an emphatic no, then ask who they are voting for. If it is Trump then point out that is an implicit approval of what Trump wants and therefore, in their actions agree with Trump and their words can’t be trusted.
If they refuse to answer the voting question or say they are not voting, point out that by not voting they are increasing Trump’s chances of winning and in this case silence means agreement.
Any Dem campaign that does not do this should be sued for malpractice. ANd no matter what their answers are, they become at risk in the election in any area other than a solid red area.
? Martin
@catclub: The IRS already did that:
catclub
@Quinerly:
I think the WAPO editorial from a few days ago was very shrill for them. Showed substantial bias against him, for good reasons.
Unique threat to American Democracy.
Miss Bianca
@daves09: I was hoping someone would glom onto that one. File under “You Really Can’t Make This Shit Up”.
hovercraft
@germy:
It’s called deflection, ignore that what the guy says is batshit crazy and instead focus on how long it’s been since she held a presser. Move along nothing to see here.
Miss Bianca
@West of the Rockies (been a while): The *late* Grumpy Cat? What important news have I been *missing* in all this TrumpTreason uproar??
The Ancient Randonneur
Very much off topic but quite humorous: <a href=http://qz.com/743526/hillary-clintons-husband-wore-a-fetching-pantsuit-to-honor-her-nomination-for-us-president/?utm_source=qzfb" Bubba Style
The Dangerman
@JMG:
We could see anything. Anything. I can’t think of anything I’d call outside the realm of possibility any longer including him dropping his pants and asking Hillary to admire it.
Mike J
O. Felix Culpa
@Patricia Kayden:
Sadly, I’m sure you’re right. It’s triage now: we have to target folks already in the “sane” — i.e., Hillary — camp and those who (for reasons beyond comprehension) are still wavering, bring them over to the light, and get them to vote! Did I mention GOTV for HRC?
Quinerly
@Vor:
Trump makes Goldwater and Nixon look like sane alternatives. Christ, John Hinckley is out and going to a halfway house and his mom’s. We know he has had mental health treatment.
Soylent Green
@JMG:
Rachel Maddow does not approve of your wording.
SiubhanDuinne
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
No, what? Grumpy Cat died?
Shakti
@John Cole
Dude, you’re from da Burgh?
Also I cannot BELIEVE this asshole. I mean, yes, he’s constantly offending everyone, but HOW DARE HE CLAIM THAT HE’S A FUCKING PATRIOT?
Kropadope
Sounds like Romney at his first debate with Obama. He even managed to take Obama unawares with that one.
Matt McIrvin
I think whether this is constitutionally treason depends on whether Russia is considered an enemy. Maybe they’re more like a frenemy, so it’s freason.
Patricia Kayden
@Mr. Mack: Keep what going? If he loses narrowly, he has still lost. I expect that he will be running his mouth, like Palin, forever and ever. A loss will be just an excuse for him to blame others for his failure (looking at you, Pence).
@japa21: I’ve heard that some Dems are trying to tie their Repub opponents to Trump. That probably works better in purple/blue states but could backfire in red states where Trump’s madness plays well among the poorly uneducated.
Mnemosyne
As I said in the thread below, Alan Keyes is waiting by the phone, because he’s the guy the Republicans call when their candidate has gone down in flames and they need a placeholder on the ballot.
IIRC, the first thing W ever said to Obama at a meet-and-greet with the new US Senators after the 2004 election was, We have something in common — we both had to debate Alan Keyes.
germy
Matt McIrvin
@Patricia Kayden:
Ask George W. Bush about that one.
aimai
@Amir Khalid: None. Zero. There’s no advantage to doing so and a huge down side.
The Ancient Randonneur
Here’s some OT levity for this thread:
Bubba Style!
aimai
@Vor: When did we get a real live Vor on this thread? Aren’t we mostly Betans?
germy
@Miss Bianca: Wait… I thought Grumpy Cat could play Cole.
Why not an all-feline movie adaptation of John’s life? Some of the front pagers could appear in cameos, portrayed by various cat breeds…
cckids
@Matt McIrvin:
Howard Fineman (on MSNBC) last night said that Trump is “normalizing” this kind of crap, and that we’ve never seen anything like the way the public just forgets about it. I’m screaming at the TV “MAYBE IF SOMEONE HAD A NEWS CHANNEL THAT DIDN’T JUST MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SHINY OBJECT THIS SHIT WOULDN’T WORK!!”
My spouse turned off the TV & brought me a brandy. I think he’s worried about my blood pressure.
Patricia Kayden
@West of the Rockies (been a while): RIP Grumpy! ***sniffle*** ***blows nose***
hovercraft
Obama should have no problem hanging this around his neck like the cement block that it is tonight. He even more than EW gets under his skin, it should be a sight to behold.
From Greg Sargent at the W Post
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Grumpy Cat Lives! I’da sworn I read he’d passed on. (Reports of his demise were greatly exaggerated.)
My apologies… That would have made 2016 even worse.
jenn
Totally off-topic, but I just learned that there’s a (now awarded) graphic novel about John Lewis’ Civil Rights history. What a flipping fantastic idea to introduce him to younger generations.
Patricia Kayden
@germy: LOL!! You win the thread. That is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. It’s good to laugh when you have the prospect of a madman taking over the reigns of your country. I guess.
O. Felix Culpa
@The Ancient Randonneur: LOL. Thanks for sharing.
Matt McIrvin
I have found no indications that Grumpy Cat has passed on. She seems to have been visiting her figure at Madame Tussaud’s in London a few days ago.
Amir Khalid
Have no fear. Tardar Sauce, better known as Grumpy Cat, is alive and well. She has been to London, although I don’t think she was there to look at the Queen. Here she is looking unimpressed at that city’s sights.
EthylEster
@Trentrunner:
But I’m betting they are completely unaware of this. And what’s Corey got to say?
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@germy:
Maybe Andrew Lloyd Webber could direct?
slag
I intentionally missed the press conference, but this exchange made me LOL:
piratedan
@aimai: well, some of us are apparently Komarrans and I suspect there may be a quaddie or two lurking about as well… Not sure if there’s a Cetagandian representation amongst us though…
Patricia Kayden
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Just say you heard about his death on Fox News and all will be forgiven. **dries eyes**
O. Felix Culpa
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Happy days are here again! Oh wait: Grumpy days…
germy
@Patricia Kayden: thank you. But I think srv won the thread when he called Trump “gracious” and “brilliant”.
Grumpy Cat lives. The famous feline who passed away was Colonel Meow. He was a great-looking cat.
Mr. Mack
@Patricia Kayden: IANAL, but if I’ve learned anything in my years, it’s that lawsuits can be filed over anything. I just don’t put it past him.
hovercraft
@germy:
Well it’s not like slave owners used this very excuse themselves to justify keeping and owning other human beings. And the women had the additional honor and privilege of being allowed to sleep with their owners. Oh and the added convenience of not having to worry about looking after their pesky offspring who were often removed to other owners. Gee with that gilded life it’s a wonder that people didn’t volunteer for slavery instead of running from it.
dmsilev
@The Dangerman:
“You have the same hairstyle down there? My condolences to your barber.”
Patricia Kayden
@germy: I never read srv.
@Amir Khalid: I’m highly impressed by a cat who has a “real name” and goes on promotional tours.
JMG
To the committed Trump voter, the equation is as follows. Russians are white. Therefore they could never be our enemy,
MattF
Sad news. Richard Thompson, author of the Cul de Sac comic strip, has died. FWIW, I think Cul de Sac was the last of the great strips.
O. Felix Culpa
@piratedan: You people are speaking Vorpalswordian again. Someday I shall have to read those books and catch up. After the election perhaps.
scott (the other one)
@BR:
That is exactly what I’ve been wondering too. Trump is so fucking unhinged that I worry it would lead to serious, serious crises with the miltary either suffering mass resignations in the upper ranks or disobeying orders. Although, honestly, I think I can see the GOP leadership impeaching him in a matter of days, leaving us with President Pence—and how fucking fucked are we that that nightmare sounds like a massive upgrade?
celticdragonchick
#TreasonousTrump is trending on twitter now.
gogol's wife
@Vor:
Understatement of the year.
hovercraft
@jenn:
He started the series a couple of years ago, if I remember correctly it’s a three book series. It got rave reviews, and he took them to Comicon the last two years, and had a blast with the kids. Educational and fun, just like John himself, remember his ‘Happy’ video.
Mnemosyne
@piratedan:
I know I’ve seen a few trolls from Jackson’s Whole show up.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@MattF:
More sad news from the funnies… This morning, Jim Davis, creator of Garfield, was found drawing in his apartment.
Patricia Kayden
@scott (the other one): Don’t most military members support Trump? Or perhaps I’m conflating statistics showing that most military members vote Republican with support for Trump. Not sure why they would resign in mass if they vote for him in the first place (if military members support the Republican candidate as they normally do).
@JMG: That may be it. Russia has a lot of issues with homophobia, xenophobia and racism so that may be one reason why Trump supporters are fine with Russia hacking into DNC or Secretary Clinton’s emails. It’s simply White Supremacists here supporting White Supremacists in another country. Makes perfect sense.
Mnemosyne
@jenn:
He was at Comic-Con last year to promote it and cosplayed as HIMSELF. Because he’s just that cool.
I believe that valued commenter ruemara was able to get her picture taken with him. From the pictures I saw, he had kids following him around like he was the Pied Piper (but benevolent, not creepy).
Patricia Kayden
@West of the Rockies (been a while): LOL!!! Come on now. Garfield can be funny from time to time.
@MattF: Sad to hear. I believe he’s local to the D.C. area.
pseudonymous in nc
The Trump intel briefing is a single page saying “WE READ YOUR TAX RETURNS”.
MattF
@Patricia Kayden: Right, His strip started as a weekly feature in the WaPo, then spread from there.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@germy: Colonel Meow (Chairman Meow?) was a handsome fellow. I miss my sweet old Persian, Koko.
Blueskies
@Jeffro:
I’m not sure about that.
I know a lot of Trump supporters. They’re all very similar in that every single one of them was easily duped into CDS with very little effort. This was nothing more than the press banging away on Bill, then Hill, then both, then back to Hill. Most of it was either totally made up or was gross exaggerations of minor issues.
IF the rich boys that own the media finally remember what eventually happens to most media moguls in most dictatorships, and if they get permission from their masters, they’ll start banging Trump on issues like unpatriotic Putin/cyberspying and evil abortion/agnosticism, etc. — things that actually hit home with this crowd under “normal” circumstances — and the mob will turn on Trump while simultaneously being ready to be ruled by the next authoritarian.
Really, it doesn’t take much to lead these guys because they WANT to be led by a certain type. I don’t see it being Ryan or a similar establishment empty suit, but it could be Cruz or even Tom Cotton.
MattF
@Patricia Kayden: Also, Garfield sometimes has some slapstick charm– but the real problem with it is that it’s the epitome of the Comix-Industrial Complex– Davis actually has nothing to do with the strip’s production these days.
Tazj
I don’t know if this has been mentioned or not but surprisingly MSNBC has been pushing back against tRump’s spin on his press conference. Of course he’s trying to say now that he wants the Russian hackers to turn over Clinton’s emails to the FBI.
First of all according to Comney himself, there are no remaining 33,000 emails. The FBI was able to recover everything from her server and everything is now available except those emails that are retroactively classified. Katy Tur also stated that he keeps changing his relationship with Putin(big surprise). For instance stating that a few years ago that he had met him in a green room before an interview and how that couldn’t have possibly been true since Putin’s interview was in an entirely different location.
cleek
@amk:
or: Trump wants to outsource his campaign to Russia!
Quinerly
Fact checking of the press conference by WAPO:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/27/donald-trumps-falsehood-laden-press-conference-annotated/
WaterGirl
@Mike J: I just tried to do my part – just spent the last 5 minutes googling every combination of trump, treason, putin, dangerous, etc.
Omnes Omnibus
@Patricia Kayden: The most recent military polling I could find.
Mike J
A golden oldie tweet, from 9-6-2014:
Keith G
This is so cool.
We all knew that Trump could not get through the next three months without spewing corrosive, support-reducing craziness. I just did not think that he would begin so hard, so early.
Ha ha. Good stuff.
To you guys whinging about the press not covering this. They will. And it is even more likely that they will if the VSP on our side keep giving the press a narrative hook. That’s on us. Trump is sticking out his chin and leaning forward. Our folks need to make sure that the solid (rhetorical) punches find their mark.
karen marie
@bluehill:
I was on Twitter earlier retweeting every “Trump ♥ Putin” tweet in my feed, doing my part to make this a very live issue.
Jeffro
@Blueskies: It’s all moot anyway – Trump is not going to step down from anything. He’s going to ride this all the way in until election day and see what shakes out. If he wins, he’s President; if not, he’ll be thrilled – he can rant endlessly on his own show/(network?) about how he was robbed and the ‘system is rigged’ and all that. He can go spend other people’s millions on PACs trying to torpedo Cruz and Kaisch. He’ll be in hog heaven.
But…if he did get out, I see your point…it would depend on which way Trump ‘aimed’ his supporters. If he told them to get behind Cotton, or Sessions, yeah, most of them would do it. I guess he’d more likely tell them who to NOT support, and then stuff would really hit the fan as Trump’s rabid base started bombarding Kaisch or Ryan or whomever with hate mails and worse.
Nashville_fan
It is interesting . . . Trump is the opposite of everything Republicans have “claimed” they “represent” . . . religious values, free trade, foreign policy knowledge, hard work, family values, anti-communism, yada, yada, yada . . . seems like the truth is its about fear of non-white people. Period. Nice to finally strip away the layers and see the ugly truth.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
I can’t remember if you’re on the “Hamilton” bandwagon with the rest of us nerds, but a genealogist did some research on Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Mexican roots (on his mother’s side) and found a really fascinating story of the son of a slaveowner and a female slave who ran away together so they could live as husband and wife. It’s a really fascinating story because she found the documents where the husband talked about how much it bothered him that he had to remain the legal owner of his own wife and children because of anti-miscegenation laws. At the time, if he had legally freed them, they would have been fair game for any asshole to come along and kidnap them into slavery, so they actually had more legal protections as his official property than they would have as free persons. His own wife and children.
Ultimately, he died in the 1850s and the kids all ended up becoming citizens of Mexico because Mexico had banned slavery and trying to continue to live in Texas would have endangered them.
Soylent Green
Far more entertaining than Garfield is Garfield Minus Garfield.
Patricia Kayden
@Omnes Omnibus:
They favor Trump for President by a margin of 2-to-1!! Wowzers.
@karen marie: Good for you. All hands on deck.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Nashville_fan:
BINGO. Racism is why we’ll NEVER have nice things. White “progressives” are the other side of the same coin.
glory b
@catclub: Late to the thread, but I think the IRS said this quite awhile ago…
karen marie
@guachi: Have you posted anything about the recent evidence that some of the emails were doctored/made up from whole cloth?
cleek
i don’t envy Clinton having to debate this hurricane of shit.
it would be a full time job just trying to point out his lies, let alone advance her own message.
Sloegin
@germy: Not that it remotely matters next to Billo defending slavery, but he’s historically wrong as well. Jay Bookman tweeted this: We have an eyewitness, First Lady Abigail Adams, who said those slaves were ‘half fed, and destitute of clothing’
Trentrunner
@Patricia Kayden: What was their margin for Romney? That would be useful as a benchmark. Frankly, 2-1 sounds a bit low, considering it’s the military and the alternative is That Harridan.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Fascinating. A bit depressing, not a ton of surprises, but fascinating.
piratedan
@cleek: maybe she could stand at the podium with a clicker and click it audibly after each statement and then ask the audience to confirm the total number of lies after he’s finished?
Leto
@Patricia Kayden: I answered from my perspective at comment 154, but I’ll try a different tact. Read the comments to this piece at Stars and Stripes. It’s a small sample (11 comments) but the CDS is so strong: Clinton to VFW: ‘I don’t understand people who trash talk America’.
The majority of comments regarding Clinton are typically horrible/super negative. Occasionally you’ll get a sane comment, but most are bad. Granted, it’s online and not talking in person, so take what you will from that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trentrunner: 66% Romney, 26% Obama.
schrodinger's cat
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Grumpy cat is a girl. (apologies in advance to Rachel Maddow for offending her sensibilities)
slag
@piratedan:
The primary concern there would be that thing on his head suddenly waking up demanding a treat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Trentrunner
@Omnes Omnibus: Just what I thought. Thanks.
We’ll see if that number ends up lower for Trump. One veterans’ group just came out a few minutes ago asking Trump to remove himself from the ticket for his Russia comments.
JMG
Any other nation in the world that isn’t seriously considering acquiring its own nuclear arsenal right now isn’t seeing its situation clearly. Most of them aren’t white, and it’s clear a near-majority of Americans, and a big majority of white Americans, consider non-white people as their enemies.
raven
@Trentrunner: vvaw?
Captain C
@catclub: I wonder if releasing previous tax forms will show that Donald had to file some pretty serious “corrections” to his audited returns, with a pattern enough that it’s obvious that he’s a serial and willful tax cheat.
p.a.
Can anyone with the knowledge compare this to Berlusconi in Italy? Initial appearances similar: moneyed businessman taps into right wing populism to run for national leadership position. Did B come off in his campaigns as Trumpishly demented and pig-ignorant? And still he won? Or did B maintain a veneer of competence? Did it matter to his supporters (proles or party regulars) whether he seemed sane? How much support did B get from the Center-Right (which I assume was were the CD’s)?
Patricia Kayden
@Mnemosyne: That’s a fascinating story at the link. Lin-Manuel just got cooler, in my opinion.
japa21
I have been trying to find this quote on line. I thought it was from Churchill, but I may be wrong, and the actual wording may be slightly off, but it catches the meaning:
This November may see that realized if we don’t work harder then we have ever worked before.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ben Jealous still whinging about how hard it is to support Hillary– we need to elect progressive from coast to coast to build our “Revolution!”
“It was never about one office”
You think he’s as annoyed as I am that Bernie has endorsed one Senator and I think 6 House candidates?
You think he’s as annoyed as I am that it never occurs to anchorbots to ask about this
Keith G
@Miss Bianca:
Not surprising at all when one considers that active duty force is predominantly white (70%) and predominantly not college educated (94%). Women make up 14%.
Reservists have more education, there are more women (18%) and are a good deal Whiter.
Quinerly
WAPO has a rather extensive fact check of the press conference on its site. As Melania Trump would say, “My heart and prayers go out to the fact checkers.”
Oops, that was really Jill Biden saying that after the RNC convention was over.?
Matt McIrvin
Franklin Foer: The DNC hack is Watergate, but worse
First comment is a Bernie-or-Buster with a stoopid conspiracy theory about Hillary rigging the voting machines.
glory b
@hovercraft: Long, long ago, someone posted a link to a paper or book with details on how poorly slaves were actually treated and cared for. Anyone remember that? Link?
slag
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I sometimes think the necks of some liberals are permanently broken, making it impossible for them to turn their eyes to their right.
Leto
@Keith G: Not really sure where you’re getting those stats from, but here’s my branch: Air Force Personnel Demographics Not saying the racial component is wrong, but the education and gender ratio’s are (again for USAF vs what you’re stating).
The following Air Force active duty demographics information does not include the Guard, Reserve or Air Force Academy (approximately 4,000 cadets).
JMG
@p.a.: The major difference is that Italians don’t see themselves as “the shining city on the hill” and that corruption and clownishness had been a longtime element in Italian politics, making Berlusconi different in degree, not kind. Also, they knew they didn’t have nuclear weapons to worry about.
Mnemosyne
@Patricia Kayden:
There’s been a lot of talk in the romance writing world about being more inclusive. IMO, stories like that one are ripe to have a historical romance based on them.
WaterGirl
@Patricia Kayden:
Not possible?
Applejinx
Holy crap re: Trump calling on Russia to hack us.
I have to wonder whether at some point he’ll piss them off. The thing is, Russia’s leverage is compromised if Trump fucks this up. He’s supposed to get his ass elected and be completely at their mercy, not blow the whole thing with stupid press conferences.
If I was Putin, I would be sending somebody to whack Trump. Somebody wearing a Hillary Clinton mask. I don’t think Trump is salvageable any more as a Russian resource: dude is too off the hook and uncontrollable. But, if Russia had him killed in just the right way they could throw America into utter chaos or at the very least fill it with insane wingnut terrorists ready to be directed by Russian paymasters.
Technocrat
@slag:
That has to be the funniest thing I’ve read all day.
Geoduck
@Soylent Green: Though to Davis’s credit, he’s said he finds GmG funny, and has made no effort to stop its publication. I think he even wrote the intro to the book version.
boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: The last time there was a hard Pence was when Pence stuck it to Teh Ghey with IN’s RFRA. We know how well THAT turned out.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@JMG: You will note that as soon as they had the money, which they probably would have liked to use on other things, Iraq/Iran/Evil Korea/Pakistan/India started (and in at least two of those examples successfully finished) their own native nuke programs, no apologies. And even back in the early nineties, I thought “why wouldn’t you? You see what happens when you DON’T have one, so why wouldn’t you?”
It’s not about “The Islamic Bomb” or any of that shit, it’s about not getting invaded and not having your country turned into a gigantic base for some former superpower.
And after the last few weeks, when every nation around the world has seen what “the world’s policeman” is flirting with, I expect a lot more of the homegrown projects to start up. Sorry to say, especially Japan. I think they’d be out of their minds not to.
Gin & Tonic
@p.a.: Didn’t Berlusconi own newspaper(s) and/or TV station(s)? Thus guaranteeing himself coverage even more fawning than US media have given Il Donaldo.
WaterGirl
This has been weighing on me all morning… Am I going to have to change my nym since Rachel Maddow (apparently) disapproves of my choice?
Gin & Tonic
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Wonder where A.Q. Khan has been hanging his hat lately.
Keith G
@Leto: The title reads:
The next page reads:
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: I’d read that romance novel!
Trentrunner
@raven: Sorry, yes, VoteVets called for Trumps removal from the ticket. I should have put that in my original comment.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Gin & Tonic: I’d bet he’s very dead somewhere. If we or the Russians didn’t shoot his ass, one of his clients has. You can’t just walk around with that much global blackmail in your head, and not get killed one day.
catclub
@p.a.: I have repeatedly said that the difference is that Berlusconi owned the media – or a large fraction of it, while Trump does not. The media could never turn on Berlusconi, but it certainly could turn on trump.
Berlusconi is an actual billionaire – he owns news networks. Trump is a pretend billionaire – he endorses steaks and fraudulent universities.
Keith G
@Leto: I have the documentation for you, but FYWP has it in moderation.
Until it gets freed, try this
http://tinyurl.com/hw4ff6c
slag
@Technocrat:
:)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Katy TUr and MSNBC anchor marvel over Trump’s ability to stick to his “all press is good press” theory, then anchor cuts to scene of Trump rally where reporter is waiting for Trump, while we wait, anchor will interview Trump surrogate.
I had to mute it, so I don’t know if anchor will defy my expectations and bring up the fact that 33,000 missing (illegally deleted!) emails is yet another lie
Keith G
@Leto:
I have the documentation for you, but FYWP has it in moderation. Check back after a FPer frees it.
schrodinger's cat
@Applejinx: Phil and Elizabeth’s new assignment!
sigaba
@Gin & Tonic: Berlusconi owned a TV network (Italy’s first private one) and was a movie producer, inter alia.
Fun fact- he produced Volere Volare, which is kindof a fun movie.
Keith G
@Leto: Golly FYWP decided I can not edit either.
Google this if you like
2012 Demographics, PROFILE OF THE MILITARY COMMUNITY
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
We really need a new blockbuster sweeping antebellum romance to replace the execrable Gone With The Wind in the public imagination. Sadly, I don’t think I’m the writer to do it, but I hope someone will be.
Quinerly
@WaterGirl:
I was going to mention but felt I didn’t know you well enough.
Mike in DC
Next up: Putin drinks a glass of water while Trump calls for withdrawal from NATO.
Leto
@Keith G: Cool; it’s probably averaging all four branches.
@Trentrunner: VoteVets has a Corey Booker piece where Booker was calling out Drumpf for his comments on McCain (re: POW). Booker asked if he would say the same thing to WW2 vets and current serving members, and asking if this is who you want as CinC. VoteVets ad
Edit: Kieth @ #374- will do!
celticdragonchick
@Trentrunner:
The military has always been borderline reactionary when it comes to politics.
I tried to point that out to Erik Loomis at LGM when he went on another one of his Quixotic posts on how the military should be unionized.
Beyond the problems you introduce with persons sworn to the Constitution and to obey the lawful orders of the POTUS etc having a divided loyalty with the union and possible insubordination…can you imagine giving the Army or the Navy an extra-constitutional veto over anything a liberal POTUS wants to do?
* I am against any union membership for any job that involves carrying a weapon on behalf of the state. If you can kill a citizen, your loyalty better be to the citizenry and to the constitution and not to a union. Example…the mass insubordination of NYPD officers and contempt for rule of law and chain of command during the Eric Garner affair.
Now imagine that with people who command ships, main battle tanks and have nukes.
Keith G
This is alway a great type of headine to see on my news feed:
I swear some ‘professional’ politicians are so in love with the sound of their own yapping pie hole that they just cannot learn to STFU!!!
edit I just need to add…Why, just why, is it so fucking hard for that moron to see that this is sooooo stupid to say?
Trollhattan
@sigaba:
Bunga-bunga parties in the White House–making America par-tay again!
Applejinx
@catclub: Oh no no. Trump is a kept billionaire. I’m calling it.
He HAS the money, that’s why he continues to be the Republican nominee. He has endless billions on tap. He only has to ask.
…Russia.
And that explains the whole thing. The money is absolutely real. The man is unhinged enough to enter into those type of relationships. The self-interest of those lending him the money is easy to understand.
And the people talking about ‘once you pay Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane’ have been looking in the wrong direction. Once you make huge deals with Russian oligarchs in order to have an endless supply of money to do anything you want, you can’t be too surprised when they want you to run for President.
The rest is self-delusion, grandiosity, and groundwork for unprecedented treason.
Highway Rob
I decided to check, and according to Google Translate, “krysa grebanyy” would be an applicable term here.
Betty Cracker
@Keith G: Gyad, what a fucking moron. I understand he’s been a decent governor, but he was an asshole loose cannon during the 2008 campaign, and it sounds like he’s still an asshole loose cannon.
raven
@Trentrunner: Not at all, just wondered.
JPL
So I went out for a few hours, and all hell breaks loose. Will McConnell say again that they will control him?
By control, what do they mean? If Trump takes office, on the first day, he will have the power to kill millions of people.
misterpuff
One of Drumpf’s strengths in the primary was that he was the Id of the GOP come to life. He got that way by immersing himself in the darker corners of the RW Bubble (You’re soaking in it). So he really did say out loud what the knuckledraggers were thinking because he was quoting them.
It’s like if Obama suddenly has a presser and responded to every question with “I wish a motherfucker would…”
But Drumpf forgot the prime directive of The Dealer: “Never smoke your own shit”, just let the junkies and suckers do that. But now his font of knowledge is poisoned with his own BS and narcissist that he is, it is amplified in a feedback loop where he can do no wrong.
No good can come from this. (But we have been saying that for a whole year).
cokane
Trump also revealed that he seems to have no idea how hacking actually works
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: IT’s the kind of thing HRC could address at a press conference– here’s what I like about TPP and the need for Pacific trade, here’s what I don’t like and the parts we need to prioritize for our long term benefit. I generally think more press conferences are a good and necessary thing, if she could get the reporters to agree to ask no questions about the emails, or “Why do you think people don’t like you?” An all policy press conference… and then (as long as I’m fantasizing), everybody on the three cable nets has to talk only about policy for the rest of the day
Keith G
@Betty Cracker: It’s almost like he was thinking, “Gee, what can I do to take a little of the heat away from Trump?”
Can we sent him to Bora Bora until Nov?
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yup, I saw the interview and wanted to scream. What’s so hard about emphasizing the many, many places where she and BS agree and endorsing that?
E
I reply on this site about once a year, but this rant is EPIC. Loved it.
(And grape Mad dog is what I first got drunk on, back in the 20th century.)
Frankensteinbeck
I just heard CNN from the neighbor’s apartment across the hall. They are gobsmacked by Trump’s call to have Russia hack the US government. They had their intelligence expert on, and he was so upset he was babbling, going on about how there was no precedent for this kind of thing, with discussions of whether it met the legal argument for ‘treason’ or ‘sedition’, with the implication that if it didn’t match the law, it sure was in practical effect.
Feebog
Who knew the train wreck would consist of dozens of oil tankers simultaneously exploding?
ruemara
I get to interact with some vets. The sniper perceives him as a “clear & present danger”. We laughed, but… I told him me maintaining deniability was my main goal in life. My official chastisement was stated. Now, I’m not so sure he wasn’t prescient.
@celticdragonchick: I don’t always agree with you, but this, regarding police unions, is 100% spot on.
Villago Delenda Est
@cokane: One of a great many things that Teh Donald has no idea how it works.
Lizzy L
I wonder if he even recognizes that he’s encouraging espionage against a former Secretary of State.
jenn
@hovercraft: that’s brilliant. I hadn’t known about the series at all until this morning when I found out it had won awards. I’ve yet to sit down and read any graphic novels, though I’ve long been saying I need to do so – for the artwork, if nothing else. I think that fact blinkered me a bit – I had never really considered the potential to use the medium for education as well as entertainment.
Iowa Old Lady
We’re so horrified over Trump calling on Russia to spy on us that we may have missed that he also said the Geneva Convention was outdated.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
One of the great contrasts of this campaign to her 2008 campaign is that Robby Mook seems to run a very tight, no-drama ship — he even managed to muzzle the Big Dawg early on. So expect McAuliffe’s appearances as a surrogate to be sharply curtailed and heavily scripted from now on to prevent him from wandering off again.
Trollhattan
@cokane:
Stupidity seems a virtue, remembering that Reagan thought ICBMs could be recalled after launch.
“Uh, sir, [whisper-whisper].”
“I demand twenty billion dollars!”
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: The sad thing about GWTW is that parts of it are excellent – some great characters, and damnably well-written. It’s just that it and Birth of a Nation did so damn much to romanticize the Klan and Lost Cause-ism – even tho’ the latter does get some pushback, in the form of Scarlett herself, the racial/sexual dyanamics that underpinned the KKK did not – that it’s pretty much toxic to me now.
Van Buren
@JudyinSD: Scott Baio is the obvious choice.
jenn
I was introduced to Propane Jane’s twitter on Monday, and have been reading it since. She does not pull her punches, and I thought this was a fantastic response to the “BernieBros.”
Propane Jane @docrocktex26 23m23 minutes ago
Ever stop to think that maybe you’re so ignorant about what she’s done bc her life’s work has been helping people who don’t look like you?
Trollhattan
@Iowa Old Lady:
Ever since watches went digital the Swiss–LOSERS!
Had Donald “refudiated” anything yet?
Mnemosyne
@Lizzy L:
Realizing it would imply that he cares about anything that does not directly benefit himself. It doesn’t occur to him because he literally does. not. care.
? Martin
@Keith G: Yeah, it’s a gaffe, but I also think he’s correct. And that annoys me because I think there is a liberal case to be made for the TPP and it would be nice to see it made, and now it won’t be. And I too think Clinton will support it.
D58826
@p.a.: Can’t speak to your questions but I did read somewhere in the past day or so that he has made the most of the bed that Putin gave him
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
I see where Jill Stein was on Fox. She was being interviewed about how the DNC rigged everything against Bernie. I may have to go drink a gallon of antifreeze.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
MSNBC fact checker (after half an hour, they’re fact-checking the news conference they’ve been talking about all day) says that “high ranking DNC officials were questioning Bernie Sanders’ religion”.
Fact check, MSNBC: One. One DNC official.
ETA: they never get to the 30,000 emails, or his assertion that he opposed the Iraq War. they vaguely mention other problems with this conference.
Trentrunner
@Iowa Old Lady: This is the Gish Gallop problem I noted before. Hillary (and the press) will face this in the debate.
I watched Trump’s press conference, and from memory, here are a sampling of the outrageous things he said beyond Russia & emails:
– Putin has called Obama a nigger
– The Geneva Convention is outdated
– I will bring back torture; it works
– Obama is the most ignorant president we have ever had
– On November 1, some unspecified cost report will be released showing what a huge failure Obamacare has been, with highest premium increases of all time
– He said Tim Kaine was from New Jersey, at least a few times, before being corrected by the press
– He referred to John Hinckley as “David” Hinckley
– He said the prosecutor in the Freddie Gray case was wrong to even bring charges and should “prosecute herself”
– He said Bill Clinton left out the best part of Hillary’s history last night, alluding to the Lewinsky affair
That’s off the top of my head. Total Gish Gallop, and we have to find a way to deal with it.
Frivolous
I suspect Donald has Alzheimer’s. He demonstrates severe cognitive deficits.
Keith G
@? Martin: Yep. And….there is being correct and there is being prudent. Above, Jim and then Tobie both pointed out that there were wise ways to address this.
Shana
@celticdragonchick: This thread may be dead already, but I’ll throw this out anyway. Someone did a study and found that people who were fans of the Harry Potter books were much less likely to be Trump supporters, which makes perfect sense. The books show how a Hitler-like person can subvert the institutions of society and change the atmosphere in order to come to power. I remember making the argument that the books were like Hitler’s rise to power around the time the 5th book came out while a member of a mother-daughter book group. All the other mothers looked at me blankly and disagreed. We dropped the book group shortly after, for a number of reasons, but that was one.
celticdragonchick
@ruemara:
Thanks.
singfoom
@Keith G: I want to believe she won’t flip flop on TPP. I really really do. Very very stupid of him to say. It does not allay the concern at all.
And for those who don’t believe she won’t flip flop, more ammo to confirm their already preconceived notions.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
The Birth of a Nation is basically America’s version of The Triumph of the Will: a brilliant work of art that is also morally reprehensible propaganda.
At least Riefenstahl seemed to know what she was supporting, even if she denied it after the war. Griffith was so steeped in the “Lost Cause” bullshit that he seemed to have no clue how offensive it was to make a heroic epic about the founding of the Ku Klux Klan. Because slavery had been over for 50 years by that point and therefore black people couldn’t possibly still habe anything to complain about, amirite, Dave?
Holy shit. It only just occurred to me that today we are the same distance in time from the Civil Rights Movement that Griffith was from the Civil War. Freaky.
? Martin
@Keith G: Agreed that it was definitely not prudent nor helpful. Which is a shame, because this kind of stuff really should be helpful. Just my disappointment the world doesn’t work (and never will) the way I wish it did.
D58826
@? Martin: This was discussed in an earlier thread. I think even President Bernie would be forced to support some version of a negotiated trade deal. Obama didn’t just up and decide to screw the American worker by negotiating the TPP. It addresses legitimate traded issues and an ongoing concern with Chinese influence in the region. If President Bernie refused to address those issues he would not be doing his job. He/Hillary can renegotiate parts of the deal and call it ‘the I love kangaroos pact’ and it would still contain most of what is in TPP.
Trade agreements are the magic words for the left that radical Islam are to the right.
celticdragonchick
@Shana:
Yes, I saw that report as well. I never read the books, but the movies reasonably made the same journey and the parallels you mentioned became obvious.
I wonder what stories will be told about our time 40 years from now. I suspect our grandchildren may not be very forgiving.
Mnemosyne
@Frivolous:
Commenter Elie is an RN and she was Internet-diagnosing him with frontal temporal lobe dementia, FWIW.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@celticdragonchick: I am as pro-labor as it is possible to be. I have no problem, for example, with how the police unions have been comporting themselves over the last year, even though I think you can surely make the argument that, although they are advocating for some short-term good for their members, they are setting the stage for some long-term awfulness that will be very much to their members detriment.
So, my gut reaction is to tell you and your post to fuck off, a very defensive reaction – always felt that once you say it’s OK for any group of people to not have the right to a union, you can instantly extrapolate that argument to say no one deserves a union. Which is true. But I’m not going to do that, because much to my horror and dismay, you have a point. And a really good one at that. So I’m going to have to reconsider a few things, probably more than a few actually, because I’d like to say that you’re wrong. And while you may not be right, you’re fundamentally not wrong, either.
Trollhattan
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Having heard her interviewed a couple times now I’m impressed a developmentally challenged individual such as herself made it through medical school and passed her boards. Hopefully her former patients are happy with their care. Now that she’s shifted into a realm in which she’s utterly unsuited and unqualified it almost seems mean to make fun of her, but she’s sure trying hard to do some damage so screw it: Shut up Doctor Jill; shut the fuck up!
FlipYrWhig
@Keith G: That remark (McAuliffe’s) was yesterday, before the heat got turned up on Trump, though.
Scapegoat
@gogol’s wife: For locals, there is an expression, “Kennywood is open”, said while pointing at a person (usually) of the male gender.
One might naïvely think this means that the local amusement park near Pittsburgh is in fact open. But no…
It means: “Your zipper is down”.
No idea where this came from, but pretty much everyone in Pittsburgh uses this expression. Pretty hilarious for all involved.
James E Powell
Political campaign advertising & messaging seem to be nothing other than confirming preconceived notions. There isn’t much effort to persuade; it’s more a matter of animating the existing emotions to provoke action, i.e., voting, volunteering, donating.
Republicans work relentlessly to embed preconceived notions; Democrats do almost nothing along these lines.
ETA: We need a new thread.
patroclus
@celticdragonchick: I suspect our grandchildren will be telling the touching story about how President Baio got his start in politics, starting with a minor position in the Reich, moving on to Torture Minister, and later as Reich Protector of Mexico and chief proponent of the Muslim Expulsion Act.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and then (as long as I’m fantasizing), everybody on the three cable nets has to talk only about policy for the rest of the day
Gin & Tonic
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
He appeared in public in May of this year – that’s the most current reference I can find on short notice.
Frivolous
@Mnemosyne:
Frontal temporal lobe dementia? Iiiinteresting. Thanks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@D58826: Diagon Alley, you tell the guy who sells wands you’re interested in botany
Rommie
I was off the grid for most of the day – and damn. All that comes to mind is “TOONCES, LOOK OUT!”
singfoom
@? Martin: I’m curious, what’s the liberal case to be made for the TPP? Obviously we have to engage China on the trade front, that’s clear and I’m not anti-trade at all, but extending American style copyright and intellectual property laws around the globe doesn’t seem to be a winner to me for anyone except large multinational corporations. (Which yes, have US citizens who run them and work for them).
That plus the Investor State Dispute arbitration make it hard for me to envisage a liberal case for it, but I may be being myopic.
? Martin
@D58826:
Right, and I reject the use of these magical words on both sides because they are designed to incite and cause overreach and deflect from the actual problem that nobody wants to deal with. I understand the appeal of the rallying cry but it doesn’t help Democrats to advance progressive policies. It just pisses me off to be staring at a problem – a really huge problem no less (the automation of US output) and to just blindly whistle past the graveyard in order to give everyone a nifty protest sign to hold up.
JPL
As we all know Trump has no self-control. I hear that might be caused by his pill popping, but I’m not sure.
@Trentrunner: Nice. So there was more, than just encouraging Russia to engage in Cyber warfare
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: :-) :-)
raven
Well, as much as we love to bitch about the “media” they just told the on the spot reporter to wait until Pence stopped talking until she reported so people could actually here her!
celticdragonchick
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I have been very pro labor…and then I saw the NYPD Union, men and women with badges and guns, basically tell constitutional government to fuck off.
There is a reason why the Founders were so reticent to form a standing military and the NYPD demonstrated it that week when they refused to work, were insubordinate to their elected leadership and basically told us all “we have guns and there isn’t shit you can do about it!”.
The Union organized that.
I had to think through that for awhile and I finally came down on the side that unions do create a division in loyalty. This is not a problem in almost any other situation. Does “loyalty” to GM matter more than loyalty to a union? Of course not. The company sure as fuck isn’t loyal to the workers.
When you have the capacity for state sanctioned violence however, loyalty is the only thing keeping us from Hobbesian nightmare. If the loyalty of men with guns is not to us and our elected government, then we are their potential enemy and they are most certainly ours.
Peale
@japa21: lol. And pretty bogus conservative clap trap. Try getting by with a bunch of inbred mentally dim witted haemophiliacs for a few centuries.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
looking for another tweet, I found this exchange from Philly
D58826
@? Martin: I’m not a trade expert and when I read some of the articles about them my eyes glaze over. But it seems like the anti TPP/NAFTA arguments often boil down to without the agreements we would have the 1950’s economy back. Well folks hate to say it but, just like Elvis, that economy has left the building.
Trollhattan
“Both sides do it.” the Julian Assange edition.
Ironic he’d bring up gonorrhea. Also, too, I’m putting Amy Goodman on the “on notice” board. She stenographs on behalf of a lot of sketchy individuals.
Trollhattan
@efgoldman:
Won’t somebody please think of the poor pixels?!?
chopper
@gogol’s wife:
it’s got what drunks crave!
Gravenstone
@eric: Um, did you read even a sampling of the responses to that tweet? Fucking insane! Assholes one and all. Only marginally snarking when I suggest we load up Gitmo with those seditious cretins and repatriate the handful from the ME still there.
Poopyman
@Scapegoat: Been in use since the 60s, and probably since Kennywood was first open. :^)
CNN is still providing cover for Trump:
Bolding mine. Sigh.
Miss Bianca
@Trollhattan: Amy Goodman has been on my “on notice” board for years. For every good or useful story she covers, she has a dozen more hobbyhorses, crank guests, reflexive anti-governmentism, and uncritical “both sides do it” shit-mongering to make me tune out. Jill Stein and Julian Assange? Really? That’s the best you can do?
Mike J
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is everyone named Jofrey a complete douchebag?
catclub
@Applejinx: Sorry, I refuse to believe that even stupid oligarchs in Russia thought, in 2008, that Donald Trump could become President, and so they decided to back him for that reason. Also, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012,2013,2014,2015
Shana
@catclub: Didn’t Nixon release his tax returns when he was running even thought they were in the process of being audited?
D58826
@celticdragonchick: ‘old little hands’ said one thing that sort of made sense – cops do 100k good things and the media blows the one bad thing out of proportion. Now that is partly the ‘not reporting all the cats that did not get lost’ problem. But if the blue wall of silence didn’t protect the one bad thing it probably would not get as much coverage. Or to re-purpose the old cliche its not the crime but the cover-up, well if officers were routinely held accountable then there would not be an issue. If the police treated black lives like they treat white lives then BLM would never have started.
Gin & Tonic
The grammar mavens here will appreciate this brief exchange with a Trump supporter.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
Speaking as a low-level employee of one of the biggest proponents of that copyright protection, IMO the problem is that those corporations are currently caught in a huge tangle of conflicting copyrights, trademarks, and other rights (such as music rights, personal image rights, etc) and, rather than push for a comprehensive re-write of our existing laws, they’d rather kick the can down the road and let it be some other sucker’s problem to solve.
One of the biggest problems is that copyrights were never designed to be held by immortal corporations, only individuals. Then when you have two immortal corporations holding competing copyrights or other rights for the same piece of art … yeah, it’s a shitshow.
Here’s one: the rights to the songs in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs are not owned by the Walt Disney Company. They’re owned by the Bourne Company, which is run by the same litigious asshole who insisted that they held the rights to “Happy Birthday” long after the death of its most plausible writer. And while the copyright to the film was due to run out soon, the rights to the songs within the film were not. If the old law had stayed in place, you would have an artwork with both expired and unexpired rights contained within the same piece of art. Now what?
That’s why we need a serious rewrite of our own laws before we start imposing them on everyone else.
(NOTE ON THE ABOVE: IANAL, just a low-level employee who nevertheless has gotten caught up in some of this ridiculousness at my very low level.)
Mike J
@D58826:
If only black people could know what that’s like.
Gin & Tonic
@Shana: No. He released returns when he was President; he was being audited then. But he did not release them pre-election.
patroclus
@srv: I think we’re gonna be talking about Obama tonight, along with Biden, Kaine and even Bloomberg. Trump’s treason-like statements will only be a small part of it.
Poopyman
ooooh! Shiny object upstairs!
(ETA: I weep for our aborted Tbogg Unit.)
D58826
@Jeffro:
They hate Hillary so much they would make a pact with the devil (hmmm maybe they have) to beat her and the country be d**ned.,
D58826
@Mike J:
Which is the core of the problem. Seems to me that members of the African American community and the cops should have a common core vested interest – they both want to get home safely to their families. A shame the cops (and give American history it has to start with the cops) cant start to build on the common interest.
sm*t cl*de
@D58826:
“The settlement of the Crimean problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the Russian Chancellor, Herr Putin, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine.
My good friends, for the second time in our history, an American President has returned from Russia bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time.”
celticdragonchick
@D58826:
Exactly.
Hell even my conservative brother has started to get this. He pointed out that two of his boys, my nephews, were playing with airsoft guns in public and the police were called. The cops confiscated the airsoft pistols and my brother had to go get them back after being lectured by the desk sergeant.
My brother said “If my boys were black, I have no doubt they would have been shot.”
He was right. He was shaken when he said that, and the experience has made him far more sympathetic to the BLM cause even if he doe snot like the freeway sit-in tactics.
Mnemosyne
@catclub:
Applejinx does sometimes get a little too conspiracy-minded for me, but I think it’s more that Trump already had Russian ties, so when he decided to run for president this year, they thought, Eh, why not? It doesn’t matter to us either way.
But now that he has actually secured the nomination, they’re more willing to put their thumb on the scales to try and tilt the election towards him.
ETA: Also, I think the Russians see political chaos in the US as being good for them, and I can’t say that they’re wrong from their own perspective.
singfoom
@Mnemosyne: I hear you. Thanks for that perspective. It’s not an obvious white hat / black hat situation. It would be great if we reformed our IP and patent laws, but there’s this body of deliberation that just refuses to do anything that useful lately.
Maybe that’ll change come next year, we can hope.
mapaghimagsik
@efgoldman:
That one about lasagna is my favorite.
vhh
@gogol’s wife: I have seen a video of him speaking English with a British journalist. I have also seen a video of him addressing the German Bundestag in fluent German.
.
slag
@Mike J: Win.
Of course, for a police officer, being “wrong” leads to a paid vacation from the force. For a black man, it leads to a permanent vacation from life.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne: This. I wouldn’t think that the Russians had been setting up Trump from the beginning: from what I hear, he turned to Russia because he can’t get loans in the US anymore.
On the other hand, it seems like such a sweet setup that any Russian mobster would be salivating and going, yes, yes, make the man a loan…
So, no specific plans, but dear GOD must they be pleased with how things have turned out.
Mnemosyne
@celticdragonchick:
I was surprised to find out recently that one of my lifelong Republican aunts has developed her sympathy for BLM and similar movements because a white guy in her city was shot and killed by the local PD for squirting them with a garden hose. She had enough empathy to think it through and realize that if the cops in her city were willing to shoot a white guy for bullshit reasons, odds were high that the black people being killed were being shot for equally bullshit reasons.
seaboogie
@Emma: Seemed like the wonkiest ever love poem to his wife – loved it!
? Martin
@singfoom: There’s four cases to be made, from my viewpoint:
1) We encouraged Europe to form the EU, patterned after the US, because it’s clear that free trade and movement of people among the states builds both common cause and allows for economic opportunities to be seized. The US is nothing short of the most successful testbed for free trade on earth. And we accept it because we label ourselves as Americans ahead of Texan or Californian. And having Europe embrace that same attitude would help Europe rise economically and give them common cause so maybe they could go more than 40 years without a war breaking out. The same argument should hold to other economic alliances. The Monroe Doctrine was an early champion of this attitude – that colonialization of the Americas was not an acceptable economic plan for Europe. It was a championing of self-rule and of collective interdependence. This is the same argument that the GOP could (and does) make.
2) Related to that, there are generally two ways to grow economically – either expansion of raw resources (which may include people through slavery and other labor abuses) or value-add of your own or imported raw resources. For many low-income nations, looting their environment is the only viable avenue to economic growth. Free trade allows them to pivot more readily from looting to value-add. As much as we bemoan the loss of low-end manufacturing jobs to low-wage countries, that’s precisely what liberals should want to happen. Give those jobs to people that lack the skills for high-skill work, and get them out of the business of looting their own environment, help them rise economically and push them into a position where they can start to purchase US exports which tend to be high-wage, high-skill. This is precisely the same argument that we apply to minimum wage – that if you give people more discretionary spending power, they’ll drive demand and the economy will grow. And the last 20 years, driven by both free trade and technology (which relied on free trade) global poverty has plummeted like no time prior. People pulled out of poverty are more likely to seek education, more likely to demand a civic voice and demand democracy, more likely to see their future tied to economic gain rather than terrorism, and so on.
3) The US should not fear the loss of low-end manufacturing jobs because no nation is better prepared (and has demonstrated) the ability to pivot to high-end and service occupations. Historically keeping workers in low-end tasks has been a drag on the overall economy. We are better off with robot tractors growing our food than you and I on our knees pulling carrots. We can train and educate and do bigger things, solve bigger problems, help more people. Low end manufacturing and menial labor as a necessity for wages should be seen as offensive to progressives. That’s not to say it isn’t a noble thing for people to do of their own choice – I like gardening and building things for fun as well. But having progressives say ‘No, we want people turning a bolt 8 hours a day in order to feed their family’ should be seen as a failure. Instead, the US is able to export a tremendous amount, though it isn’t often easy to see. US universities export education on a massive scale. We export culture and intellectual property through music and movies. The top of the technology stack all exists within the US – computer operating systems and software are dominated by the US, including the design of much of the underlying hardware. Yes, we’ve exported the assembly, but we don’t demand that the aluminum be mined here. The US economy has increasingly shifted toward design, engineering, service, culture, etc. They are incredibly profitable and productive – $220K per US household annually, and a lot of that benefits from exports. Our movie industry is beginning to make more money overseas than in the US. Our tech industries have for some time. The more nations we can export to the better.
4) Related to the above, if you care about labor rights and the environment, then the best place to get these changes is through trade agreements. Trade agreements require both sides give something. We ask for access and we give access. We want the market for x opened up so we give up access to the market for y. But in here we can ask for environmental standards, we can ask for labor standards, etc. Will they be perfectly enforced? No. But without an agreement there is no ask at all, there is no progress, there is no enforcement. The trade agreement is a functional agreement to get that and because it requires both sides to participate, we have a reasonable ability to enforce it – we can take something away. China is the largest auto market and auto manufacturing market in the world, but they don’t sell in the US. Why? It’s not because of wages or tariffs – it’s because US auto regulations are too stringent for the Chinese to meet. It turns out that US and European standards require a lot of engineering, higher skilled workers, better design, and so on. These are non-tariff trade barriers that can easily be included in trade agreements and defended on the basis that they lower greenhouse gases, that they encourage better labor standards, etc.
This isn’t necessarily an argument for any particular treaty like NAFTA. No question we can write terrible trade agreements and have, and will continue to so long as Democrats reject the very idea of trade agreements and cede authority to write them to Republicans when they are in power. Democrats can reshape what a trade agreement should look like without having to resort to trade isolationism, which is pretty much all that’s left from the kind of rhetoric that Sanders (and Trump) have put out there. But states like California, which is the Democratic firewall, are massively dependent on trade. I know its hard on workers in old industries and workers that didn’t go to college 20 years ago, and they should be taken care of, but the path out of this is not anti-trade.
celticdragonchick
@Mnemosyne:
Jesus. That reminds me of that poor bastard in Long Beach who was gunned down without warning from behind while he was holding a sprinkler attachment in the front yard. The family was awarded over 6,000,000 at trial a couple of years ago and the city still has it tied up on appeal. The two cops were not indicted even after they revealed the man did not know they were there and they opened fire without any verbal warning to him.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne: Ethical Algebra?
seaboogie
@Poopyman: TBogg still possible as thread is active, but Samwise Unit unlikely.
Old Broad in California
I really hope our side hammers Trump early (like starting tonight) and often over these Russia comments. This is shocking, even from him.
? Martin
@D58826:
It’s not that simple, mainly because police aren’t the only ones that treat black lives different. Many layers of public policy treat blacks and whites differently, and inevitably black people find themselves in different communities, in different circumstances, seeking different solutions to their problems – often ones that white people wouldn’t. Whites make different decisions knowing that their consequences not just from police but from lawyers, judges, banks, employers, teachers, and so on will be different. It is systemic and putting the burden solely on police is unfair and inadequate. Even if they did what you suggest, we’d still have most of the same problems.
gogol's wife
@vhh:
Yes, as a KGB officer in Berlin he would need fluent German. I don’t think he speaks much English, and I doubt that his few forays into English-speaking include “the N word.”
singfoom
@? Martin: Thank you for your detailed reply Martin. I was more asking for the liberal case for the TPP itself, not trade in general. But yes, Democrats need to embrace smart trade. Not allowing the passage of any more flawed trade deals would be a good start, but you’re right in that it has to be proactive and not reactive. So then if we have an admin that supports something that looks like the TPP with the bad parts stripped out. (I think there’s a valid argument that there’s not much there there then…)
Cheers.
D58826
@? Martin: True but most of the other institutions do not carry guns and have the power of instant death. Trump can try to evict black residents from an apartment but, at least at the moment, he can’t summarily execute them.
Skwerlhugger
Kennywood? Youns from Pittsburgh.
tybee
don’t make me post the last 14 comments all by myself. i WILL do it if necessary.
J R in WV
@Patricia Kayden:
John Belushi~!!! wait, wait, isn’t he dead? Never mind. ;-)
I have hugged the white throne and heaved, and gone out to the back yard and heaved, but I’ve never heaved all over anyone, nor from a rapidly twirling carnival ride. I think I determined to never mix those games the first time I got even tipsy.
Not to be giving you a hard time, John. Just joking around it. And Belushi couldn’t do the now John Cole, anyway, there’s more to the bio than puking on a carnival ride. For which we thank you!
? Martin
@D58826:
Who carries out the eviction notice? The police do. And that’s a bit of what has been commented on in recent weeks – that we put too much burden on the police for too much. Why are the police solely responsible for dealing with front-line mental illness? With drug issues? With homelessness? Why are they providing discipline within our schools? Why was that incident even allowed to happen? Can we not build better social structures that can take some of that load off of the police? BLM is the result of a thousand cuts – police being at least one.
Consider the things that some black communities cannot count on having: grocery stores, DMVs, schools. Black communities are not like white communities, mostly due to decisions made by whites. What happens when you gerrymander the entire black community into one space in order to minimize their electoral representation? What happens when the white community says ‘we don’t like paying taxes’ calls for education cuts, then fundraises out of their own side of the community to fund their schools, but not the schools where the black kids go. Do black people not see that happening? Do they not think the system is unfair? Do you have NYC police walking through Goldman Sachs randomly performing stop and frisk encounters?
All of these things lead to two outcomes: 1) that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior seen as threatening or unusual to the white community 2) that blacks end up with more encounters with police that even if the polices are acting fairly will statistically lead to more arrests, more shootings and so on. It’s pretty unlikely a police officer will shoot me in my car – I’ve not been pulled over in 25 years. Even the two times when I caused an accident, I never had to interact with police. Every police encounter I’ve had since I moved to CA, except for one, I initiated on my terms largely under my control. That is a reflection of the police, sure, but it’s reflection of a fuckton of other public policy and social policy decisions that were made to benefit me.
Barbara
Hey John, I believe that ride was called the Rotor and it could make you sick even if you had never been drinking. If it’s the one I’m thinking of (the one that made my sister sick), you stood up and you were kept in by holding on to a sort of fixed harness that locked shut. I don’t think they have it anymore. The thing spun around at high speed and then went kind of topsy turvy as well. The really bad thing was that if you got sick while it was going the centrifugal force would make the vomit come right back in your face. I close my eyes and I remember that the airplanes were on one side of it and Noah’s Ark was across the way. Good times.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@tybee: LOL.
Barbara
Wow, the Rotor had nothing to keep you inside! I am probably mixing it up with something else. It’s featured in this old advertisement for Kennywood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h18kJnFBitU
pseudonymous in nc
@Miss Bianca:
And you can’t call yourself anti-establishment when you’ve had a national platform for 20 years.
Mnemosyne
@celticdragonchick:
That is the exact case and city. My aunt is semi-prominent there, so I didn’t want to be too specific.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
I had a friend who liked his Mad Dog drizzled over his vanilla ice cream.
Mnemosyne
@seaboogie:
Hey, I don’t care what math middle-class white people use to get woke up, as long as they do. She is now extremely skeptical of all police shootings and thinks we need major police reform — that’s good enough for me.
Gravenstone
@Applejinx:
And here I thought Tom Clancy was dead …
TheMightyTrowel
Are you telling me this thing of genius is going to stay just 2 comments sort of a tbogg unit?
TheMightyTrowel
@TheMightyTrowel: fuck that
Technocrat
@TheMightyTrowel:
If you need something done…
tybee
@Technocrat:
i would have done it.
Groucho48
@sm*t cl*de:
That was great! It would be good if Dems and the media started comparing Trump to Chamberlain.
Scapegoat
@Skwerlhugger: You betcha!