McCain's moment: https://t.co/dO9G1Wv7aU
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) July 28, 2017
It’s been a long week, humor me. Much appreciation to Mr. Pierce, and also Sen. Murkowski, and even John McCain:
… After a motion to send the bill to committee sponsored by Democratic Senator Patty Murray of Washington failed, McConnell held the vote open for nearly an hour, giving his people time to work on any fence-sitters. Even Mike Pence came down to join in the lobbying and, if necessary, cast another deciding vote. Pretty soon, it became obvious that McCain was going to be the focal point of all the politicking. That was when Lisa Murkowski, Republican of Alaska, did a very smart thing. She walked over to McCain and talked to him for a good 45 minutes, essentially boxing everyone out, even Pence, who tried his best. The drama kept building and Murkowski kept talking to him. She, along with Susan Collins of Maine, were the true stalwarts against the bill, voting against every attempt to demolish the ACA, and even voting against the bill coming to the floor, which is something that McCain couldn’t bring himself to do. Murkowski even stood up against some clumsy—and marginally illegal—threats from Ryan Zinke, the Secretary of the Interior. She and Collins were implacable. If you told me that some of their courage rubbed off on McCain, I wouldn’t argue with you.
“Those were some of the bravest votes I ever saw in politics,” said Angus King, the Independent from Maine.
After a while, with the entire Senate chamber rapt with attention, McCain walked down the aisle and across in front of the presiding officer’s desk, over to the Democratic side of the chamber, where he joined a group consisting of Dianne Feinstein, Amy Klobuchar and Democratic leader Chuck Schumer. The smiles started small, and then spread around the semi-circle of Democrats and McCain, whose love for the dramatic gesture remains undimmed, spread his arms out and lifted his head in mock supplication. Everybody laughed. Not long afterwards, Mike Pence left the chamber entirely, rather than preside over an impending political catastrophe.
The only thing that saved the day was the way it ended. The rest was taken up by a legislative process that had as much to do with orderly democracy as a tornado does with home décor…
You can spend hours trying to determine why McCain voted the way he did. He certainly took some convincing to do so, unless you think his inexplicable vote to proceed on Tuesday was the beginning of some Machiavellian exercise to saw off the limb behind McConnell and the president*. Maybe he truly was revolted by the bizarre process through which this exercise was conducted and perhaps he truly did yearn nostalgically for regular order. Maybe he didn’t want what may be his last major act as a U.S. senator to be the person who jacked their healthcare from 16 million of his fellow citizens. Or maybe it was just pure cussedness. Whatever the case, when McCain walked into the chamber and dropped his thumb down, the whole place turned into a goddamned Frank Capra movie.
“It was a pretty good movie, wasn’t it?” Angus King said. “It’s easy to stand up to your opponents. It’s much harder to stand up to your friends.”…
ArchTeryx
You know, I went to our first class Vietnamese restaurant today and ordered myself up a big plate of lemongrass crow, and celebrated the fact that in this topsy-turvy political world, the “Smart Money” is now often dead wrong. And last night had to be the biggest example of that since Trump’s election.
Their nasty little Acktion T4 program was stopped cold in its tracks by a guy with brain cancer. My best friend and I raised a toast: That the only people these ghouls will manage to purge are themselves. Right out of a job. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of Nazis.
?BillinGlendaleCA
WaPo says Dolt45 will sign the Russia sanctions bill, his boss won’t be happy.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: It was either that or have his veto overridden next week. He can’t take another failure after the three or four he’s already had this week. The psychological injury would be too great.
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: He didn’t really have much choice; a veto would (a) have been quickly overturned and (b) would have convinced even some of the denser Republicans that there is something to that Russian thing.
Calouste
I am fairly sure McCain shivved them on purpose. If he had stayed in Arizona, there would be the narrative that it would have passed if McCain had not been ill, and it probably would not even have come up for a vote. He just took it all the way there, and then stabbed McConnell in the back.
JWR
This has probably been said, but I find it curious that only after receiving a likely death sentence did McCain finally do the right thing for health care in America.
Feebog
I just hope the wooden stake has been put through the heart of this abomination.
p.a.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Well, the vote was veto-proof, so anything else would look weak. Bet there won’t be a big signing show with cameras by the child-king, though…
p.a.
@Feebog: no. they’ll still try to kill Social Security and Medicare if the opportunity presents, ferchristsake!
NotMax
He’ll sign it with disappearing ink.
hueyplong
What, no podium in the Rose Garden with the ghouls all around him, grinning?
Who knew that winning would be so hard?
Walker
I do think that if McCain dies before the midterms, McConnell will try this again with his replacement (who must, by Arizona law, be a Republican).
StringOnAStick
@p.a.: Ryan has already put making Medicare a voucher program in his proposed budget. If he thinks we were universally pissed about attacks on the ACA, then he has no idea of the hell we will unleash if they go after SS and Medicare. Bring it, you little weasel, and we will destroy you and your party.
Yarrow
I have watched this over and over today. “Don’t do this, John!” LOL. Rubio having to lean on the table for support. Cassidy dropping his head. McConnell watching, arms folded, as McCain destroys his (McConnell’s) legacy. I love it more each time.
Punchy
Not to be gruesome, but the minute he’s fertilizer and his RWNJ is seated, they’ll vote again. Im guessing by the end of the year.
Kent
@Feebog:
According to Senate rules, they can’t go back and reconsider a previously decided action unless someone on the winning side makes a motion to reconsider. So McCain, Murkowski, Collins, or one of the Dems would have to request reconsideration of this “skinny repeal” bill. Same goes for the other versions of Trumpcare that went down to defeat earlier this week.
McConnell could come up with some new version of Trumpcare that was substantially different from the previously defeated versions and introduce it for a new vote. But the parliamentarian would have to rule that the new bill is substantially different.
So bottom line, all the versions of Trumpcare that were actually voted down should be considered dead for the duration of this Congress but that doesn’t present them from coming up with any other substantially different version to accomplish the same thing.
At least that’s how I understand the Senate rules from my brief time working in legislative affairs for a Federal agency.
Could they violate these norms? Sure. But I don’t think the majority of Senators would want to. They don’t want to have to keep endlessly dealing with the same votes again and again and again. The want to vote something up or down and move on.
NotMax
@Walker
Maybe McCain will switch his affiliation to the Communist party just to posthumously shake things up.
mai naem mobile
I hope Lisa Murkowski gets nominated for the JFK Profile In Courage Award. She really deserves it. Susan Collins possibly did it because she’s thinking of running for governor but for Lisa Murkowski it was a really brave vote.
dmsilev
@Feebog: Overt repeal becomes a lot harder now; the big issue is the calendar. The Senate is spending the next two weeks doing other things (Defense Authorization bill, considering nominations) and then is on recess for the remainder of August. That gives them all of September before the reconciliation bill expires on 9/30. And in that time, they also have to do a bunch of fiscal stuff (debt ceiling, whee!) etc.
That’s putting aside the minor issue that if the closest McConnell could come to getting 50 votes was the “skinny repeal, and then we’ll trust Paul Ryan to fix our mess for us” this time, squaring that circle doesn’t get any easier. Especially since, having walked the plank for him once already, his caucus may be a little less eager to do a second reenactment of the Charge of the Light Brigade in the space of two months.
rikyrah
This was one of the funniest takes on the McCain vote.
I LOL everytime I read it – hilarious.
Watch The Shocking Moment John McCain Killed The Republican Health Care Bill
There is so much going on in this clip. I can’t stop watching.
Originally posted on July 28, 2017, at 9:54 a.m.
Updated on July 28, 2017, at 2:58 p.m.
David Mack
dmsilev
@Punchy:
After September 30th, they’d either have to give up their holy tax cuts or try to get sixty votes for passage. Both are …low probability events. Far more likely is the Trump Administration doing whatever they can to sabotage the law and hoping to blame the chaos on Obama.
mai naem mobile
@Punchy: I actually think the AZ Governor Doug Ducey partially convinced him to vote against it because he’s got his eyes on the POTUS prize. Flakes up in ’18 so under more pressure for a RWNJ primary or I think Ducey would have pressed him more. Cindy McCain supposedly wants to succeed John in the Senate.
StringOnAStick
@Punchy: They’ve blown their chance for passing this with reconciliation, so any new consideration means 60 votes to pass it. They have until the end of September if I remember correctly, and they have the debt ceiling, the budget or a CR, and defense appropriations before then too. They are out of time unless they want to shut down the government and risk default. Oh crap, I see the hole in my logic…
efgoldman
@Kent:
Yahbutt….
It barely passed the house the first time. As election day (and primaries) draws closer, even the RWNJs in safe districts are going to be looking at electoral consequences, and the fact that their colleagues in the world’s greatest deliberative body hung them out to dry.
Immanentize
@p.a.: I had not thought of this, but does Trump even know what a pocket veto is? He should watch “I’m Only a Bill” and learn some civics.
germy
If their side had won, the repubs would have been singing and chanting.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Kent: Mitch had apparently already put it on calendar this morning.
Speaking of Mitch: https://twitter.com/x_t_pd/status/890938372017070085
germy
@Immanentize:
I’m guessing he thinks it’s something bannon puts his dick into.
rikyrah
Clayton Cubitt
✔
@claytoncubitt
Dolly Parton’s dad never learned to read. She started a program which sends a book every month to children in need. 92. Million. Books. https://twitter.com/dollyslibrary/status/879761586306654210 …
1:15 AM – Jul 27, 2017
encephalopath
I wrote this earlier today but…
The vote count is deceiving and intentionally so. It makes it look like they’re one vote short of passing their dream bill. You can paint McCain as the goat here and argue the he betrayed the party, but that’s not what happened. He was perfectly willing to take the heat on this because they were nowhere near having 50 votes on this thing.
If there were 50 votes for it, you would write the bill and pass it. If there were close to 50 votes you would write the bill and tweak it to pick up the extras and pass it. But what the majority leadership was trying to do was so far outside of what the party could sign on to that there was never a bill at all.
Instead there was this piece of garbage placeholder they were expected to pass, and then the real bill would get written in a secret room somewhere so that their fingerprints wouldn’t have to be on it.
None of this is what happens when you have close to majority support for a thing that can pass.
Immanentize
@germy: I don’t think so because we now know that would be Bannon’s own mouth. Thanks Mooch!
lamh36
whatever…
Murkowski and Collins, esp Murkowski are the real MVPs here, the truer profiles in courage.
John McCain on his essential dying deadbed decided to do the right thing, cause his buddies like Lindsey couldn’t afford the say NO. It’s no surprise that of the 3 Senators who had the press conference about how bad the “skinny” bill was, it was McCain who was the NO vote, even as Lindsey Graham, his BEST BESTIE, and the other dude (for the life of me I can’t remember the 3rd dude’s name) voted YES…
I admit when I’m wrong, and I was wrong last night about McCain’s vote, still, good on McCain, but my admiration goes to the two lady GOP Senators, even if I still don’t trust them or any Republicans.
Mnemosyne
@germy:
Yeah, but look at that caucus discipline. Schumer just had to make one gesture and everyone stopped clapping.
MisterForkbeard
@Punchy: One can hope that McCain switched party affiliation. before he leaves the Senate Totally unlikely, but that’s a huge middle finger to McConnell and Trump, and his successor would also have to be a Democrat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
i listened to a good chunk of that press conference in the car, and, like you, the name of said nonentity is floating just beyond my recollection
earlier today a couple of MSNBC reporters, the anchor and one of their campaign reporters (again, in the car, so I can’t say who it was) were all giddy about Lindsey Graham’s ‘straight talk’ because he said he was against “half-assed repeal’. He voted for the bill, but he said a swear! So he’s practically fucking Wild Bill Hicock to them.
Major Major Major Major
@JWR:
I don’t find this curious at all.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Yup. The account above says that Murkowski basically prevented any other Republicans from approaching McCain and potentially changing his mind.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: Yep. I’m much more impressed with Schumer than I’d expected to be. He’s got his caucus under control.
efgoldman
@lamh36:
Not that i want to question anyone’s motives, and once the vote was in, it really didn’t matter, but I’ll always wonder how Suzy Q Collins would have voted if she weren’t running for governor.
Ken
I checked the original, and can’t figure out what that “*” means. Is it a missing footnote, perhaps “Or pull away the football, if you prefer”? Or is Pierce following Garry Trudeau’s use of “*” for GW Bush, the other recent president who lost the popular vote?
Major Major Major Major
@Ken: Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen “president*” for Trump.
amygdala
@Adam L Silverman:
Bigly. Textbook narcissistic wound(s); I’m guessing everyone is walking on eggshells even more than usual in the West Wing right now and will be for a while. Will also be interesting to see how things play when the leaks continue even with Reince gone.
Barbara
@encephalopath: Some number of them decided who would have real bullets in their rifles when the convict stood up against the wall. The number who wanted to see it fail was at least twice and probably three times the three who actually recorded no votes.
germy
@Ken: Pierce always uses an asterisk after President when referring to Trump. It has something to do with him not being a legitimate president.
Peale
So, due to circumstances mostly beyond my control, I’ve had a staycation this week when I was supposed to be in Wisconsin chilling with my parents. (Thank you united continental). I’ve been out hunting legendary Pokémon and not paying attention to the news (As always, fuck the New York Times, although all praises to the Gym outside their building, which produced the big bird I was seeking). So I’ve not been following the news. Trying to relax. Avoiding stuff that will make me cranky.
I can’t keep up with all that’s happened in the past week. Heaven help me if I’m ever in solitary confinement for a week. Which I will be. I was getting a pedicure today and the network interrupted Steve Harvey for that stupid scary Trump speech on Calle 13 and the Salvadorans are everywhere killing us all and after about ten minutes I just gave the TV the middle finger. Started shouting to turn it off. I think in another year I’ll probably start flinging things at TVs that he’s on.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: Well, McCain and Pence had a one-on-one conversation on the floor before McCain disappeared into the cloak room. I only saw the talking part, but reporters said McCain just turned and walked away from Pence while Pence was in mid-sentence. Bwahahahaha!
lamh36
@efgoldman: I agree, it’s why I said they get my current admiration, even though I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them…or any GOP pol
Ken
@encephalopath: The weird thing is that’s exactly what the Republicans in the House did – passed a bill they didn’t really want in the hope that the Senate would fix it later. Hot potato, I guess.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy:
Nope, beer bash at the White House.
encephalopath
@Barbara:
That was my guess too. Probably a full 10 firmly against.
Yarrow
@Barbara: Saw Chuck Todd say that McCain essentially took one for the team by being the third vote but there were at least twelve other Republicans who didn’t want the bill to pass.
Immanentize
@Barbara: That is one solid metaphor. I’m stealing it
Jeffro
@germy: @Ken: Several of us here do it too, when talking about president* Trumpov.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: I’m glad to hear you’re having good luck with Pokémon.
NotMax
@Yarrow
There has been reporting that the trip to the cloakroom was in order to answer a phone call from Dolt 45.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
My admiration for Murkowski, and McCain, is tempered by the fact that they were both all-in on McConnell’s obstruction of Obama, up to and including Merrick Garland. But she won a write-in campaign against a Tea Bagger, Like McCaskill and a few others, she knows her state and she knows how to win.
In all the media hysteria over McCain the Instutionalist who wants to save the Senate, et cetera, et cetera, does Merrick Garland’s name ever come up ?
Immanentize
@Peale: I have found it useful to flip the bird at the TV when it’s off. Just to stay frosty, y’know.
efgoldman
@Yarrow:
Really didn’t matter if none of them would take a recorded “no” vote.
Cowards all.
Fuckem
Jeffro
@Yarrow:
Then, as I’m sure most folks here would agree, those twelve other Republicans shouldn’t have voted for it. Reject that Koch money! Reject the party-first mentality! You have nothing worthwhile to lose here, and you just might regain your souls…
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Oh, I’m pretty sure the Democrats are having themselves a nice little celebration. I sure would be.
Another Scott
@Kent: Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
Murkowski is cementing her position as the next “Senator for Life” from Alaska…following in the footsteps of Ted Stevens. This vote can be seen as payback to the Alaska Native communities who came through for her big time during her write-in campaign. Rural native healthcare would have been devastated by any of these Trumpcare measures.
Only thing Murkowski has to worry about anymore is a primary challenge from her right. But she already got through one of those and she is now too powerfully placed as a committee chair for the state’s business community to throw that away for some tea party type. They want someone to bring home the bacon, not someone to tilt at Southern neoconfederate Christian Right nonsense.
I spent a decade living and working in Alaska. Politics up there are different. People like their politicians with an independent streak.
NotMax
@BillinGlendaleCA
Bud Light (yuck), so that would be a beer* bash.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: Souls, alas, do not win elections.
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Surely you jest.
And I won’t call you Shirley.
dmsilev
@Ken: Which is presumably why Ryan gave that weasel-worded statement yesterday afternoon when asked to comit the House to a conference and not just pass the Slender Bill. ‘Hey, we tossed this hot potato to you. You’re not getting away with tossing it back’.
germy
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If, as rumor has it, Collins has her eye on the Maine governor’s mansion (if they have one), how does the Dem bench look to take her seat?
ETA: @germy: Reminds me of bush sending Rove out to get some cheeseburgers. There are rare occasions when trump makes me smile, and I hate Preibus so much that’s one of them. He was such a nasty little fuck while Obama was in office, spewing every hate radio talking point. I despise Michael Steele too, but I hate Preibus so much I hope he poured himself a Boeher-sized cocktail and laughed his ass off following this story.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
As many of us had predicted, it’s slowly dawning on elected Republicans that they’re in charge now. They’re in control of all three branches of government but they let a crazy man drive the train and now they’re going off a cliff.
I suspect that Murkowski is enough of a survivor that she’s not willing to just let herself go over that cliff without a struggle. Shit just got real.
encephalopath
@efgoldman:
Yes… they were cowards which is why they stood aside while the guy who is going to die from brain cancer before his next election stepped up to take one for the team. I don’t see how anyone could be more cowardly than that.
rikyrah
The choice cannot be more clear.
They are on the record for plans that were horrific and would inflict harm upon MILLIONS.
NOW, they need to be nailed to the votes. Make them stick like superglue. It should be in every ad against them for 2018.
The GOP tried to harm you and your family.
The Democrats didn’t.
It really IS that simple. Period.
SiubhanDuinne
@Walker:
It wil never happen, of course, but I’ve been entertaining a sweet little fantasy that, weeks or even days before his death, McCain formally changes his membership to the Democratic Party, just so his governor is forced to appoint a Democrat as his replacement. A nose-thumbing from beyond the grave.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: @efgoldman: Senator Cassidy from Louisiana was one of them at the press conference wanting assurances about a conference committee (shame lamh, shame…). Senator Johnson from Wisconsin was the fourth.
? Martin
It’s hard for me to get enthused about McCain’s actions here. The only thing he needed to do to sink this was to stay home and recover. He didn’t need to build up the drama. The only reason for doing that is either:
1) To get the glory
2) To shiv McConnell and Trump in the most painful way possible
I’d admire the latter, but I’m not convinced that was the strategy.
Barbara
@Ken: Hot potato is the right image because that’s how insurers view people with preexisting conditions, in “free market” conditions.
smintheus
The occupant of the White House is incompetent, ignorant, obsessive, lazy, and crazy as pretty much everyone agrees. But that makes it easy to lose sight of his most distinguishing personal attribute, the one that makes him tick. Trump has the personality of the classic bully… a cowardly worm who can think about personal interaction only in terms of humiliation and power relations.
Trump’s a bully, it makes him both unstable and pathetically predictable, and it’ll be at the center of his eventual undoing in a town full of resentful jackals.
Adria McDowell
@Immanentize: A pocket veto would still make him look guilty as sin re: Putin, tho.
Adam L Silverman
@Ken: Yes, he’s using the asterisk to indicate that the current President only won the electoral college, not the popular vote. But as Pierce is also a sports writer, he’s also using it the way an asterisk is used in official player bio’s at halls of fame or in record books if there is something abnormal that has to be referenced in regard to their career.
Peale
@Major Major Major Major: i have them all* now.
*all is defined as all that don’t require special trips to Australia and Japan.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure it was part of his decision, whether he knew it or not. They say, and you know how smart they are, that McConnell is one of McCain’s deepest hatreds, and he has a lot of them.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m enjoying seeing the pain they inflict on each other.
If only they’d restrict the pain to each other. But they want to hurt us.
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: There was never going to be a conference committee. That would require voting on this again in both chambers – and there’s no way a compromise with the House would improve a bill that could barely make it out of the Senate in the first place. Ryan was going to put the Senate bill on the floor, twist arms, pass it, and get it the fuck over with, and hope like hell they could patch it up through other legislation or through HHS.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: So it’s not a legitimate all, then. At least it’s enough to win the popular vote!
SiubhanDuinne
@mai naem mobile:
Am I hallucinating, or is Cindy McCain not a nominee for some high-level position in some department?
Gian
In 2008, my then 5 year old kid called John McCain Drama Cain…
I think, if you were to really have a whip count, that other GOP Senators were against, but were more than willing to vote for it and let McCain have the glory and hassle of voting against in the dramatic fashion. they get to be cowards, he gets to do something good before meeting his maker. And I see I’m late to this party/opinion.
going on a trip soon with the kids and ripping series of unfortunate events and harry potter books on CD to MP3 – or trying, for the road trip
efgoldman
@? Martin:
I think it was bonus revenge. If another one or two of them had the balls to vote “no” it wouldn’t have mattered what Grandpa Crash did.
O. Felix Culpa
@efgoldman:
Glad to see you back in fighting form! And I’ll second that emotion.
Yarrow
@efgoldman: @Jeffro: Well, of course they were all being cowards by letting McCain do their dirty work. They’re Republicans.
Gelfling 545
“It’s easy to stand up to your opponents. It’s much harder to stand up to your friends.”…” seriously? Quoting Albus Dumbledore? Cool.
? Martin
Josh’s timeline on Priebus’ firing is brutal. Plane lands, Reince leaves the plane and gets in the car with a few others, Trump tweets the replacement, Reince’s carmates get out and into a new car, they all drive off, only once the trash has been taken out, Trump walks down. Biggest fucking coward alive.
If Reince resigned yesterday, why the hell did he even go on the trip? I don’t buy that answer.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: Would not have surprised me.
ArchTeryx
Well, in other news, my job is going along great! I’m still pretty grossly underpaid and under employed – a PhD doing basic clerical paper shuffling – but by doG it’s a permanent job with first class bennies, and it beats the living hell out of another postdoctoral fellowship. So I put on my Big Boy pants, recalled that Einstein started his career as a patent clerk in middle age, and am working to turn my group of Vocational Rehab counselors into a well oiled machine.
The fact that we’re pumping out tons of money specifically to get disabled people college degrees and jobs is a not insignificant bonus. I truly believe in the mission of this little government agency. It’s an example of what government can do right – bar none.
And other counselor groups are starting to adopt my new system of getting vouchers out quicker and more efficiently. Ain’t no better compliment then that.
Gian
@? Martin: reminds me of a drunk coach for USC football
SiubhanDuinne
@MisterForkbeard:
@SiubhanDuinne:
I see I’m not the only person thinking this way. So let it be written….
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: One of the Under Secretary of State slots.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Cassidy hanging his head when McCain gives the thumbs down is one of my favorite things right now. I can’t quit watching it.
efgoldman
@germy:
Wait until they start testifying against one another. Not enough popcorn in the world.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: Ambassador at large , same title as Brownback, I believe.
Twitter Nixon says it was Ivanka’s idea
Barbara
@efgoldman: Portman is the one with no excuse for being a coward. He is in office until 2022 and had solid backing from Kasich.
lamh36
Good lord…this guy…spineless is giving him too much backbone…
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: One should take comfort where one can find it.
encephalopath
@? Martin:
Stretch – Why Did You Do It
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That office actually existed until about two weeks ago. That was when the entire section was shuttered. The acting ambassador at large was let go and the foreign service officers working as staff were reassigned to other sections. So regardless of the reporting that’s not happening.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Stockholm syndrome.
Yarrow
@? Martin: It reminds me of when someone gets voted out on a reality show. “Reince, the tribe has spoken…”
Amir Khalid
@rikyrah:
I’ve suspected for many years now that Ms Parton is politically well to the left of most of her fan base.
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They’ve got something like 2000 empty desks at Foggy Bottom. Plenty of room.
frosty
@ArchTeryx: Congratulations and nice work on the job! And I’d have to agree, an entry-level job in government still beats a post-doc. There will be opportunities to move up or sideways over the years, and busting your hump at whatever they give you is a way to get those opportunities.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: Ugh…Cassidy…of course I missed that…can’t stand to look at my state reps/Senators…the only one I know by name and face is Cedric Richmond…one, cause he’s the rep for NOLA, and two cause he went to my high school and he’s only 3 years old than me and third, I’ve been a following him on FB for years.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I don’t care right now.
Major Major Major Major
@Gelfling 545: why can’t we quote Dumbledore?
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
Compare and contrast.
frosty
@Amir Khalid: The movie “Nine to Five” was a clue.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: I promise not to tell anyone else.
Omnes Omnibus
@amygdala: I have heard rumors that McMaster is shipping info to the FBI. Can’t source it.
Mnemosyne
@ArchTeryx:
As another of the overeducated and underemployed (though mine is an MFA), welcome to the club! There’s a certain satisfaction in having a steady job that you like, even if it’s not what you expected to be doing. I’m learning how to examine and report on original artwork before it gets sent out to museums, which is pretty cool.
Another Scott
@? Martin: Someone earlier today posted a link to a Tweet that argued the following:
1) McCain needed to come back to get the 50+1 votes to pass the MTP.
2) One the MTP was passed, then the bill was on the floor and the Reconciliation counter started. Only 1 Reconciliation bill can be considered per (FY? Session?)
3) Voting to kill the bill killed the chance of using Reconciliation for the rest of the (FY? Session?)
IOW, if the MTP didn’t pass, then McConnell could keep trying to get something through by bringing up bill after bill and MTPs after MTPs. But once the MTP passed, then that was it. Do or Die.
Dunno if all the details are right. And McCain apparently deciding late to vote against it makes it seem like some “grand strategy” might not have been behind it.
Since McConnell didn’t switch his vote, it would seem that he can’t bring it up again (he can only do that if he’s on the majority side). But maybe he can bring up something else. He’s crafty-evil.
Whatever the “real” reasons, all the Democrats and enough Republicans voted to kill this horrible bill. The awful thing should have never been introduced, let alone almost passed. But we won one and St. John can take some of the credit.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Thanks. I thought it was something at State but couldn’t remember what.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Scott: given that it was a tweet of a screen cap of a reddit comment, I’m going to think of it as interesting congress fanfiction unless I see somebody knowledgeable weigh in.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ah yes, I remember numerous bloggy screechings of “Burn him!” when Harry Reid would vote with the Rs in order to be able to bring a vote back.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman:
I called his office this morning and the staffer sounded dejected and hungover. I did a rant about process and the rural poor. He sounded even more dejected and hungover when I finished. I felt good about it.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s from a reporter at Circa. She has a very poor record of reliability. Circa is owned by Sinclair Broadcasting, which cut a positive coverage agreement with Jared during the campaign and now employ’s former White House Deputy Assistant to the President and Trump campaign official Boris Epshteyn as their director of politics. Basically they’re angling for state news outlet.
My guess is that this is a test balloon from one of the ratfuckers to get rid of McMaster regardless of whether it is true. He turfed out COL (ret) Harvey from his position as Senior Director for the Middle East on the National Security Staff. This removes one of the Iran hawks from the White House despite Harvey being one of the individuals named as being tasked with providing the President with an option for abrogating the JCPOA when it comes back up for recertification.
I doubt there’s any truth to this. I also doubt that reality will matter. LTG McMaster is on borrowed time and he needs someone he can trust on his staff to watch his 6.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Correct. Anything done on healthcare/health insurance now is subject to a 60 vote for cloture threshold to proceed to the simple majority vote for passage.
encephalopath
@Another Scott:
This sounds like someone who wanted to stick the knife in from the front, Scaramucci style.
Another Scott
@frosty: Her not giving in to Elvis was another one, I think.
Cheers,
Scott.
sukabi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Preibus is one of the few in drumpfs orbit that refused to sign a nondisclosure agreement, here’s hoping he’s taking his loose lips to Mueller.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Congrats!
Mnemosyne
@SiubhanDuinne:
OMFG, I had completely forgotten about that!
Damn, I miss that man. Why did he leave us? It’s like when your mom breaks up with the great boyfriend who used to take you to the zoo and instead brings home a drunk who spends all his time sitting on the couch watching football and screaming at you to shut the hell up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the info. I still want the guy that I admired to be worthy of it.
lurker dean
@Another Scott: I saw that on twitter but I haven’t seen confirmation of the rules. I hesitate to give McCain that much credit, I’m leaning towards the idea he was seeking maximum adoration. In any event, I hope it’s true it’s dead for at least some period of time!
sukabi
@SiubhanDuinne: ambassador. To the vatican
TriassicSands
Very little thanks to McCain. He swept in and heroically hogged the spotlight from the two women who did the heavy lifting. If he’d stayed away, then Collins and Murkowski alone would have been enough to stop the skinny repeal. With only 99 senators 50 “No” votes would have done the trick.
For McCain, all this was supposedly about bi-partisanship and regular order. But where the hell has he been for the last several years? Yep, voting right along with the putrid majority.l In fact, his voting record this session has been more conservative than his overall record. I don’t find his act very convincing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Not a congrats thing. I did my duty; that is all.
Yarrow
@Omnes Omnibus: Good times.
TriassicSands
@efgoldman:
How are you feeling today? Any better?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sukabi: that’s Callista Gingrich. Cindy McCain would be a step up, actually several flights of stairs, and I am not a fan of Mrs McCain.
frosty
f@Major Major Major Major:
FTW!
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands: So what? Look at the result…
Mnemosyne
@TriassicSands:
Incorrect — as the President of the Senate, Mike Pence was standing by to cast the tie-breaking vote and pass the bill. Instead, McCain cast the 51st “nay” vote and blocked that from happening.
Given the narrative above, it looks like Murkowski kept McCain by her side to prevent him from wavering, which was brilliant maneuvering on her part.
Amir Khalid
On a lighter note, the Girl and I are learning to change between chords. We’re getting along great, although Bianca still hasn’t figured her out.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: As I wrote earlier, had I been consulted, which I was not, I would have advised him to accept the position on the basis that he would retire effective immediately. Yes, he’d technically still have senior leader offramping to do, but as long as he’s a serving officer he’s always in a tight spot. If he was LTG (ret) McMaster he would have more room for maneuver as the Assistant to the President-National Security Advisor (AP-NSA). He desperately needs that room. Moreover, despite whatever verbal assurances he got, he needed to get in writing that he had control over the National Security Staff including a blanket termination of everyone brought on by LTG (ret) Flynn with the caveat that they could reinterview with McMaster to keep their position or interview for another position on the National Security Staff. This would have allowed him to staff up as he saw fit. Instead he’s stuck with a lot of folks he didn’t hire, are not his bubbas and bubbettes, and who he can never be sure of. I can not tell you how many general officers I saw that lamented less than successful commands with the primary complaint being they were not authorized to staff their teams how they saw fit.
sukabi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: confusing…both bottle blondes.?
efgoldman
@sukabi:
With the usual caveats, I think an NDA can’t be enforced against testifying in a criminal matter, which Mueller’s and Schneiderman’s investigations are.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: 50-49 is not a tie.
SiubhanDuinne
@sukabi:
That’s Newt’s wife, the helmet-haired Callista Gingrich.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne:
I’m not sure that’s correct based on what reporters were saying as it was happening last night. For instance.
and
frosty
@Amir Khalid: Congratulations on chords. IIRC, two big steps for me were 1) being able to play songs I liked (Times They Are a Changing was the first) with the chords I’d learned and 2) mastering barre chords.
No, three! 3) Being able to pick chords off of songs I liked by ear.
(I’ll come in again).
efgoldman
@TriassicSands:
Yes, thanks. More details in previous thread.
Gian
@TriassicSands: the vote was for real – they brought in Mike Pence to cast the tie breaker
mai naem mobile
@SiubhanDuinne: she does but all she has to do right now is resign to spend time with John(completely reasonable request) and Ducey appoints her and she runs. AZ law is he appoints a stand in and they run in the next statewide election. At least that’s the way I understand it. So it’s possible you could have 2 Dem pick ups in AZ – okay I’m dreaming here….
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, it was a wonderful moment. And even though distracted whilst slaughtering a defenseless insect, notice he still spoke in complete and grammatical sentences.
Barbara
@efgoldman: That’s right. Otherwise the NDA would be obstruction of justice. The only real privilege is attorney client.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Additionally by doing this he gets payback on McConnell. McConnell helped to kill McCain’s major legislative-policy accomplishment: bipartisan campaign finance reform. This is likely McCain’s last chance to get even.
frosty
@Yarrow: To be fair, I read the same account that Mnem did, so maybe we’re in the “Fog of News” zone.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I would have had him not to take the job. I think he made a mistake.
Adam L Silverman
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman: 45 minute flight time means it could hit deep in US.
mai naem mobile
@Yarrow: I have a lot more respect for Murkowski. I used to think she just rode in on her father’s name but she looked like a tough sharp woman. I am not saying I would vote for her against a Dem but you have to respect her smarts.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: guess it’s time to revive the magical missile shield project.
Republicans like that.
sukabi
@SiubhanDuinne: yeah.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: And?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I was glad to see there’s some pushback from conservative twitter on that godawful X-Minute Hate on Long Island today, and from police departments, too. This seems to me pretty strong, checking the Rough Beast by handle
Gian
@Adam L Silverman: Mitch has made enemies, I expect now that it’s been shown that he bleeds, more might come out. And I’ll repeat what I’m sure others have said – his bills fucked Kentucky, which had a successful Medicaid expansion hard. Dude is not loyal to his own voters, he’s blinded by his hate for President Obama, and the money from the modern Birchers.
in my humble opinion
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
I can remember as far back as Sam Rayburn and LBJ, speaker and majority leader, respectively. In all those years and decades, there’s never been anyone as incompetent, venal, and disliked as Yertle McTurtle and Granny Starver.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: That’s uncomfortably close…
Cheers,
Scott.
Gian
@Barbara: next life, I want to be lawyer/priest/shrink – that way no-one can ever make me tell a secret, although there would be a penalty to experience points
Amir Khalid
@frosty:
It won’t be long now before I get to that stage, touch wood. I should have taken up the guitar decades ago.
encephalopath
A song for John McCain…
Even the Devil Gets Right Someday
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: Jeffery Lewis wrote an article about what happens when North Korea launches a nuke.
US anti missile batteries in Alaska open fire. Six US missiles go after the one north korean., One hits it, brings it down. The other five head towards Russia who see an attack.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Hi, Adam. Last night you suggested I might be talking about the look on Grassley’s face instead of McConnell’s. I commented that I knew it was McConnell, it was in December and I’d find the comments. I think I commented after you went to bed, so I don’t know if you saw it. I did some digging and found my original comment and then a back and forth with you.
My original comment is here. It was December 12, which was a Monday and the day McConnell changed his mind going from no investigation the previous Friday to allowing investigations by that Monday. You replied to me in that thread at comment 90.
A few days later you and I had another exchange about it. Your comment about McConnell looking like he was kicked in the gut is here. I asked you about it here, and you replied a few comments below with a lengthier response.
I was really struck by McConnell’s change of heart and body language. I know I’ve mentioned it a lot, but it was kind of interesting to go back and see the details. Just FYI in case you were interested.@Adam L Silverman:
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I do too. That said what I sketched out above would have gone a long way to mitigating his problems.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Yep.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Just thought it was interesting that someone in Japan caught it on video.
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The chief in Suffolk County (the force to whom he “spoke”) had reiterated their policy on treatment of prisoners before the business day was out. It’s not to bash heads.
This is the third or fourth time in which a high-ranking official has countermanded something that Amber Asswipe said.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Suffolk County PD issued there own statement pushing back on the President’s guidance/encouragement shortly after the event concluded.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: And?
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Yep.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: No worries. There’s been so much on this it is easy to get something mixed up. And clearly I did.
mai naem mobile
@Gian: what’s the background on McConnell’s hate for Obama? Is it just the hue of Obamas skin,Obama being a Senator becoming POTUS or something that happened in the Senate while Obama was Senator? I know he’s mentioned that he found Obama professorial but,shit,Obama had been a professor.
efgoldman
@mai naem mobile:
All of them, Katie.
I wouldn’t suggest in an open forum that a senior senator in the 21st century is racist. No, no I won’t. Really truly; scout’s honor; swear on the Pope’s head….
Steve in the ATL
@frosty: @Amir Khalid: barre chords are a quantum leap. you aren’t paying until you master that.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Also, I am POSITIVE that the whole thing about the supposed irony of protecting the heads of arrested people is from a stand-up comedian in the 1980s, probably Seinfeld or one of the Seinfeldian observational-wry cohort.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: No big deal. I was just really struck by his change of heart over that weekend and how much he looked like he was in a hostage video when he announced he was allowing sanctions. It has stayed with me ever since. He did not want to do that and it looked like someone made him. How they made him do it is the question. My guess is that he was told what my be released about him if he didn’t allow investigations.
TriassicSands
@Mnemosyne:
Were there any 50-50 votes on health care this past week? Yes, McCain cast the 50th vote to proceed, which gave Pence the chance to break the tie. With McCain absent, it would have been 50-49 — no tie, no vote for Pence.
The VP gets to cast a vote if there is a tie. With 99 senators (McCain absent) there were 51 Republicans and 48 Democrats. Subtract Murkowski and Collins from the Republican total and you get 49 Republican “No” votes. Add the two GOP women to the Democratic total of 48 and you get 50, which is more that 50% and there is no tie to break.
“The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.”
With McCain absent 50-49 is not a tie; they are not equally divided. Hence, no vote for Pence. He doesn’t get to make a tie, only break one. I think that is correct.
So, if McCain had stayed in Arizona, the skinny repeal would have lost.
The Post had a list of the votes up the other day. Because the Post, like the Times and many other sites have lousy search features, I can’t find it today. I wanted to check all of the votes this week, but any vote that included McCain that came out 50-50 would have failed if he had been absent, so he didn’t need to be there.
Smiling Mortician
@Major Major Major Major: In my own very recent experience, receiving a likely death sentence tends to focus the mind very sharply, very quickly. All sorts of bullshit disappears immediately. I’m inclined, for personal reasons, to believe he meant it when he gave his thumbs-down. Doesn’t make me like him any better. But I believe this is a real moral decision on his part.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Since I’m not read onto this. And don’t expect I will ever be read onto this. I have no idea. But as was also the case with Senators Grassley and Feinstein, whatever they were told and shown scared them very, very badly.
??? Martin
@Another Scott: That’s the best line of argument I’ve seen. McCain would certainly know the rules. And there never seemed to be a real effort to get his vote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mai naem mobile: hard for me to imagine that Obama’s skin color had nothing to do with McConnell’s personal reaction, but everything I’ve read about McConnell suggests he loves power for power’s sake, it’s on some level a big game to him, and right wing politics is the means to the end of having and exercising power. He knew/sensed on a gut level that racism, not his own though again I’m sure that’s there, would be a powerful tool in exercising power against Obama. He could get away with shit he couldn’t have gotten away with against (Bill) Clinton or a President Kerry. Abetted by the fact that to the Beltway press (to steal from Mr Pierce) it’s not about race, because nothing is ever about race.
FlipYrWhig
@mai naem mobile: @efgoldman: Honestly? I think it’s both. I think it’s like this: McConnell got concerned that the Obama election would lead to so much goodwill and unity, with Republicans thinking they’d be guilted into going along with it all because he was black, that Democrats would get a structural advantage over Republicans for a long time to come. Obama would make too many people happy and bring along too many Democrats on his coattails. So he (McConnell) decided the way to save his party was to poison it all.
Adam L Silverman
Something else lost in all the noise:
mai naem mobile
@efgoldman: he’s married to a Chinese American woman. I would think a hard line white racist would be married to a white person.
??? Martin
So, it looks like all of the proper politicians are out, and what’s left are family members, shameless ass-kissers, and generals which Trump probably believes will take orders without question. Appears we’re turning full autocrat in the White House.
jl
OK fine. i give up. Yes, McCain did a good thing, after doing lots of bad things.
I hope McCain keeps it up during his final days in the Senate to redeem himself.
I hope his treatment goes well, so if he wants to redeem himself, he’ll have an unexpectedly long time to do it.
Seriously working with Collins, Pelosi and Schumer on a bipartisan bill to improve the PPACA would be one way to do it.
So, no more congrats from me until I see the McCain that he claims to be in his speeches.
As many have noted, including front posters here, Collins did a lot of really risky and heavy work in partially redeeming the purportedly moderate GOPers in the Senate. And after she had enough of the BS, so did Murkowski.
And funny, that I have not heard AZ gub Doug Ducey mentioned in all the McCain worship.
I believe McCain sent out a statement as this crap got started that he was going to defer to his governor if he came down strongly for or against legislation and could give McCain good reasons.
At the last minute, Ducey did in fact come down strongly against skinny mini thingy repeal. So, maybe McCain just did what he said he would do, and the revenge against Trumpster thugs and their flunkies like McConnell, and the self-redemption were benefits that came along with simply following through on his promise to listen to Ducey.
Given his prognosis he didn’t have to do that for much earthly benefit, though. McCain isn’t a dope, like some other Senators who blew off a governor they desperately need on their side to win an upcoming election. Heller is a real fool, probably in way over his head. Hope he gets crushed in the next election, and he can retire to happy and prosperous and very private life.
Gian
@mai naem mobile: you do realize that the right wing points towards Asians as the “model minority”, right?
affinity toward one race does not eliminate antipathy towards another.
eemom
@TriassicSands:
Curious to see whether your patient 3X reiteration of 2+2=4 makes a dent in her alternate reality. The effort is laudable, regardless.
Gelfling 545
@Major Major Major Major: Quoting Dumbledore is fine, even recommended. Unusual from political types though.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: A bunch of us were looking at that on Twitter earlier. The first photos of the launch are coming through now.
Also follow @armscontrolwonk, @mhanham, and others they are talking to if you want to see the photos as they show up.
NoraLenderbee
I left Long Island for good when I was 24 and I’ve never regretted it. Bunch of fucking thugs* and goombahs. Let it sink under the next Sandy.
* in the pre-Obama sense of the term
Adam L Silverman
Here’s those Suffolk County PD clarifications:
The International Association of Chiefs of Police also made a statement:
TriassicSands
@eemom:
Thank you. If I’m wrong, all I need is to be shown how. Then, I’ll know better in the future.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Super late to the thread, but did anyone see how McCain, having just cast the dramatic and decisive vote, squared up and paused for just a moment on McConnell? Is there a negative history between them?
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@??? Martin:
mai naem mobile
@Adam L Silverman: she’s probably working on getting the UN to either have the UN to rent in that Kushner 666 building or rent in a Trump building or use Trump hotels. Or ahe wants some UN grants that she cam skim off. She’s a crook like her hubby and her daddy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mai naem mobile: racism is a tricky thing to define. A white friend (co-worker) of a friend was in a long term relationship with a Filipina-American woman (born in the Philippines, IIRC, but very much a midwestern American when I met her). They had a surprise baby and when the kid was born he ecstatically told his friends that it was a boy, and he looked totally white! I only recently heard what is apparently an old saw about the difference between northern racism and southern racism. In the South whites are used to black people being close but don’t want them to get too high; in the North, they don’t care how high, as long as “they” don’t get too close. Mitch McConnell strikes me as very much a Southerner of his time, and Barack Obama got higher than McConnell ever could.
Cheryl Rofer
Here’s the official statment. Anthony Scaramucci is studying it carefully for ideas.
On the technical side, it looks like a big success for North Korea with significant telemetry that will help them to design the warhead.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks. It is also important to note that the White House made no official statement, nor unofficial as far as I can tell, on the launch today. Not by tweet, press release, statement from the Press Secretary’s office. Nothing.
Smiling Mortician
@jl: Again, I have no interest in defending McCain, whom I’ve despised (vaguely, politically, from a distance) for decades. But given that I now know exactly what it feels like to get a sudden, shitty diagnosis . . . it focuses the mind. It makes you let go of petty bullshit like tribalist positions that lack logic or empathy. I think his vote was genuine. Doesn’t make me like him any better. But I think he’s being true. I have experienced rather amazing clarity of moral/ethical stance in the couple of weeks since I’ve been in the same position. Your mileage may vary, and I SERIOUSLY hope it does.
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Yes. McConnell’s holy grail is ending any form of campaign finance restrictions, whether in law or regulation. He has gone to great lengths to undermine and overturn McCain’s major legislative policy achievement: campaign finance reform. This was McCain taking his last chance for payback.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, there is a White House release. Very plain vanilla.
Adam L Silverman
@mai naem mobile: Several missions to the UN are located in the Trump property at Turtle Bay. The Saudi’s own an entire floor as their Mission to the UN.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah. Grassley and Feinstein were definitely very shaken. I guess whatever that was might come out eventually, depending on how Mueller’s investigation goes and whether or not whatever it is would compromise anything were it to be made public. I’d never seen McConnell look like he did in December. I caught just a tiny bit of that same fear on his face last night. People commented on how he was crying or looked or sounded like he might cry, but there was some fear there too. Not like in December, though.
Whatever in the world is going on with the Russia investigations, the collusion, involvement in our elections, the Trump family and organization’s dealings with Russia and other things, it must involve some really horrible stuff.
FlipYrWhig
@Adam L Silverman: To what end? Is the point just to do everything possible to get reelected, principally by telling stories about brown subhumans running amok? And then what? What does he want to DO? I still don’t think Trump has any idea what a president does, can do, or is supposed to do.
jl
@West of the Rockies (been a while): McConnell been leader in fight to destroy campaign finance limits, which McCain worked on (McCain-Feingold bill). McConnell threatened savage partisan warfare if Obama went more aggressive on Russian interference with US election, which I think pissed off McCain (though I think McCains Russophobia a knee-jerk Cold War relic type of thing). And McCain did bitterly gripe of a long time about his disagreements with the way the GOP handled health care (though as been widely noted outside the corporate media McCain fanfic world), he never really did anything to stop or threaten them to change it.
So, no love lost between McCain and Trumpsters, or some parts of the what the current GOP has become (even if McCain, IMHO, ain’t much better).
And, McCain is drama queen. So, he may have done it just for some pics in the history books. He won’t be in capsules, but want to get a dramatic pic put as prominently has possible in the thousand page tomes. You work with what you got.
The whole thing is so over determined it is kind of spooky.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Okay, thanks. I looked for one earlier before I went to dinner, but didn’t see one.
Major Major Major Major
@Gelfling 545: ah, I was worried you were one of the “referencing Harry Potter makes you a person who should not be taken seriously” types.
Cheryl Rofer
Here’s the State Department statement. I can’t find the White House’s right now.
mai naem mobile
@jl: one of the times I called Flakes office early on I mentioned how it was going to screw up the state budget and they told me to call Ducey’s office. I never bothered but I am sure other people did.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: There was some suggestion that when he briefly left the floor while the McCaskill amendment vote was being kept open because he didn’t have the votes it was to go out to the cloakroom to call the President and tell him he didn’t have the votes. That may not have been the most pleasant of phone calls. And there have been calls today for his ouster as majority leader. Though so far none from members of his caucus in the Senate.
jl
@Smiling Mortician: If McCain simply followed through on his promise to do what seemed best for his state, that is a good and ethical thing to do (edit: especially compared to the other ratfinks in his party). I’ll keep an open mind. McCain did do good on that vote, and finally came through on his rhetoric. I sincerely hope he keeps it up.
FlipYrWhig
Hmm, I think one of my comments got eaten. I don’t think I used any of the red-flag words, that is, if there still are red-flag words…
Cheryl Rofer
And with that, I’ll bid you all good night. Those good folks I recommended are posting more photos if you want to take a look at Twitter.
jl
@mai naem mobile: I always thought Flake’s name was pretty descriptive. And that is flaky thing to say to constituent.
frosty
@Another Scott:
“I just shoot them up, I don’t care vhere zey come down”
“That’s not my department” says Werner von Braun.
Captain C
@NotMax: Socialist Workers Party. Even further out (Trots until ’82, not sure exactly what after) and still on the ballot in NY as recently as 2012, IIRC.
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yup. It was mostly about power, IMHO. They believe, or want everyone else to believe, that the only legitimate president is a Republican president.
Time:
CountryParty First!:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Sure, that’ll work…
… to sink anything he or anyone in the WH wants to do.
Whatever else may be true of the moth breathers, the ones that have been there awhile take institutional prerogatives seriously.
Somebody like Hatch or Grassley can totally screw the agenda.
frosty
@Amir Khalid: It’s never too late. As soon as you’ve got some songs under your belt, look for some Open Mics. That’s when you get to experience Stage Fright!
ETA: And you meet a community of local musicians, and potentially some band mates.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: won’t stop enough departments from trying to make bank on civil forfeitures from immigrants, though. They have the green light. The president has declared that Calle 13 is everywhere. I’m going to bet that any day laborer with pay in his pocket is now suspiciously gang member looking and that money is fair game.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, gee, Trump going to war with the GOP in Congress? That sounds really really smart. Proceed Dear Leader Meister Fuhrer Savior of the Nation El Trumpo.
By the time Bannon takes him aside to explain exactly who can kick his ass out of office before 2020, it will be too late. And Bannon so loony, he’ll screw it up anyway. And then Trump will tweet out some weird shit out of spite and make it worse.
Anyway, all I have to say is ‘Please proceed, you dumbass idiot.’
JWR
@Amir Khalid:
Good deal! Just wait, next we’ll have you playing “Stairway To Heaven”, and gettin’ tossed outa Guitar Center for doing so. ;-)
Keep at it, because after all the effort, the rewards will pay for themselves.
mai naem mobile
@Smiling Mortician: it’s possible that he ran into people at the hospital during his treatment who talked to him about their healthcare. He goes to Mayo Clinic which basically only accepts the better more expensive insurances but the Mayo Clinic used to have a partnership with the public hospital in Phoenix where they would take a few medicaid patients in special situations. Maybe one of those people talked to him.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I read similar things today as well and saw at least one person suggesting he should step down. I wonder if there isn’t more. He was told to get those tax cuts, by the Kochs, Mercers or similar. He needed health care to get tax cuts. He failed. The fear seemed tied to something deeper than just the bill failing. But it wasn’t the gut level terror he had in December. If he did have to talk to Trump, that can’t have been a pleasant talk.
TriassicSands
@efgoldman:
And Trump probably still hasn’t figured that out.
He may still think that McConnell failed because he’s not a great negotiator like Trump is. Of course, we’ve seen how Trump negotiates and he seems to be the world’s worst negotiation, with no idea at all what he should do. Maybe as Emperor negotiating is now beneath him. He should simply be able to raise an eyebrow or lift a finger and get exactly what he wants.
The question is just how spineless are the Republican leaders. If Trump dumps all over them will they fight back or simply grovel in an attempt to get Trump to be nice to them?
Yarrow
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks, Cheryl. Appreciate your knowledge and insight.
Peale
@Adam L Silverman: lol. The GOP congress can only hope Trump can distance himself from them. They do need him though, to keep making those economic anxiety speeches like he gave today in Long Island. It’s mid terms now and GOP voters aren’t going to go to the polls if there’s no gays to screw over or immigrants to fear. They can pretend all they want that he’s at war with them. But most of them have their jobs now because of the immigrant bashing in 2010′ 2014 and 2016.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: Grunwald’s book on The Stimulus and the early Obama presidency, The New New Deal, got almost no support from the liberal blogosphere or media (Ed Schultz had him on for half a segment, and had clearly not read or even given much thought to the subject of the book), but it’s very informative. I was hoping it would be a BJ book club selection, but instead we got Cory Robin and the whole thing fell apart for reasons I don’t remember.
mai naem mobile
@Adam L Silverman: maybe she was trying to incerase their rent. I just cannot stand this grifty crooked family. It’s like any political cartoons with any of the Trumpies should have dollar signs drawn into their eyeballs because that’s all they are interested in.
frosty
@Steve in the ATL: But once you get the hang of them they’re so damn easy. And take heart, you don’t have to play all 6 strings in a barre. Sometimes 2 or 3 will do. Sometimes that’s all your weak fretting hand can manage (raises hand). And sometimes you say fuck it, tune to Open E, pick up a slide, and don’t worry about fretting any more (raises hand again, sheepishly).
Adam L Silverman
@Peale: It’s MS 13. Calle 13 is 13 Street. It’s five blocks over from Calle Ocho in Miami.
Adam L Silverman
Shiny new open thread up for the insomniacs, left coaster, antipodeans, etc.
Bago
Kudos to the North Koreans.They have actually figured out proper nozzles for their rockets. The exhaust profile is very trim and directed, none of the energy going to waste.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_compensating_nozzle
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: @jl: No one ever said it was a good strategy.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: That was Congressman Mo Brooks who is running for Sessions’ Senate seat in Alabama. Brooks has cut two campaign commercials where he’s threatened physical violence against opponents of the President.
Citizen Alan
@Adam L Silverman:
I now have the vision of Ken Watanabe solemnly intoning “Let Them Fight.”
jl
@TriassicSands:
” The question is just how spineless are the Republican leaders. ”
I think they will be spineless until their position and power is threatened. I thought the only thing that could do that would be horrifying polls about midterms starting sometime next spring, when they get first sense that their usual election year scams won’t work well enough this time. But if Trump is going to go to war with them, that might do it too if Trump stomps on their prerogatives. Depends on how hilariously Trump screws up the attempt, and with Mooch/The Joker helping out, that could be a blast.
And then, Trump could well forget about the whole thing tomorrow. Maybe Fox and Friends, and Hannity, will put out a series of segments on how that would be a real bad idea.
Brachiator
@efgoldman:
RE: Ryan-Priebus ally tells me Trump is moving toward “an independent WH” untethered from the Republican Party
Trump neither knows not cares about institutional prerogative. This is going to be an interesting fight. Trump assumes, based on past evidence, that he can make the GOP leadership back down.
efgoldman
@TriassicSands:
It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention on Capitol Hill that Orangemandyas has no political agenda, no persuasive power, no political power, and is incompetent and stupid beyond belief.
Most of them won’t ever say anything publicly, being loyal RWNJ-bots, and all. But you can be sure that all of them are looking forward to the primaries and next year’s elections, to see what’s going to happen to them, not only for voting to take away health insurance, but for failing even in that.
The Great Hair Furor Presidency will go on; lots of noise coming from the WH, and some real harm can still be done until it runs out of momentum on its own, but Coral Corpuscle is done as a political force. He’s just that guy who lives in the WH and gets to go in AF-1 on our dime,
TriassicSands
@efgoldman:
OT — I was looking through an earlier thread and noticed that you mentioned the Emile Griffith-Benny “Kid” Paret fight. I saw that fight on TV (with my father and brother) and it was truly horrifying.
Citizen Alan
@Cheryl Rofer:
If I were any of our allies in the region, my response would be “oh shit, we’re screwed”
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I knew I’d seen it but couldn’t remember who said it. He sounds crazy.
jl
@efgoldman: They maybe aren’t saying much. but they are taking a few baby steps. Like statement that they won’t hold any confirmation hearings to replace AG this year if Trump fires him, and Trump will have to make do with whatever sinister and fiendish Deep State operative is next in line. We’ll see how well they hold that line if Trump tests them on it.
Edit: also read that there is a bill that a number of Senators are working on, and will be sponsored by GOP, that will stipulate that removal of special prosecutor can be litigated on whether grounds were lawful.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Going to be a hell of a choice for Alabama voters (I think it’s a safe assumption they’ll elect another RWNJ). Brooks. who is crazy, has no filter, and has an IQ in the double digits, and Judge Moore, the bible banger who was fired from the state supreme court twice, I think, for putting up the ten commandments in the courthouse/his courtroom.
Frankensteinbeck
@mai naem mobile:
McConnell is smart enough to have multiple motivations, but I guarantee racism was one of the biggest. I lived in Kentucky, and McConnell’s every action reeks of that culture of hate. He sure as Hell knows how to press its buttons. When the Republican Party went batshit insane because a black man became president, McConnell did it first, starting and enforcing the scorched earth warfare aspect. That he did it while sounding intelligent and avuncular makes him no less a hateful racist who vomited bile as having a black man as his boss.
@mai naem mobile:
Hooooooo, boy, would you be wrong. Oh, no. They love marrying Asians especially. ‘Asian women are sexy’ is one of the racist tropes. Throw in some misogyny, make their level of white supremacy slightly below ‘We must protect the purity of the white race’, and racists love to date/marry non-white women. Especially if they think their kids will look sufficiently white.
GregB
@FlipYrWhig:
One of the biggest hacks around Boston has used that shitty bit for years.
Trump is going tp close with: “Try the veal”.
sdhays
@Adam L Silverman: It’s also good to remember that McConnell and his leadership team was demanding that McCain risk his life to show up for this vote, but they couldn’t be bothered to create something that a majority of the Senate actually wanted to pass. That’s pretty insulting. This entire process has been incredibly degrading to Republican Senators, but it’s a new depth of denigration when your leadership wants you to leave the hospital to fly across the country to vote on something everyone agrees is total shit.
Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd showed up for important votes for Obamacare on death’s door, if I recall correctly, but they were there because they were voting for something they had helped create and deeply believed in. It was the crowning achievement of their careers, not some farcical exercise in humiliation. What a contrast.
Whether that was a factor in his decision I can’t say, but it can’t have made it hard to stick in the shiv…
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: He’s special.
Ruckus
@mai naem mobile:
How is it a brave vote for a politician with such a solid lock on office to vote to keep a bunch of her constituents alive? She’s not going to be voted out for this vote, she probably wouldn’t be either way. But the possibility was a lot greater if she hadn’t voted as she did.
How many people who voted for this piece of shit bill do you think have a real possibility of being voted out because of it? I’d bet far more than one or two. Dems are not going to let the folks back home forget who tried to kill them. Not any that are any smarter than the fools who voted for repeal of the ACA.
Gelfling 545
@Major Major Major Major: When I can practically recite all 7 volumes? Not hardly.
Peale
@Frankensteinbeck: it’s not Asian women are sexy. Unlike so many white women, Asian women haven’t been spoiled by feminism into thinking that they should have equal say in the household. Which I don’t think would apply to Elaine Chao by any stretch of the imagination.
sdhays
@Ruckus: This is an often overlooked point. All of these bills were so terrifically bad that they had the potential, in themselves, to trigger a realignment. The right-wing will scream and squeal and threaten primaries (and maybe succeed), but failing to pass any of these shitty bills is actually the best outcome for the Republican Congressional majorities.
jl
@Adam L Silverman:
” No one ever said it was a good strategy. ”
I for one can see some advantages to that strategy.
jl
@sdhays:
” but it’s a new depth of denigration when your leadership wants you to leave the hospital to fly across the country to vote on something everyone agrees is total shit. ”
That probably had something to do with it too. A commenter noted last night that McCain was going to come back anyway for the defense authorization act. But the GOP leadership did bug him to come back asap to be their flunky for their shitty stunts, which they knew McCain did not like at all. You are correct, McCain probably noted that insult.
Mnemosyne
@TriassicSands:
Sorry, I wandered off to finish reading a book and only just got back to the thread. Yes, I am bad at math, so I suppose that means the death penalty for me.
However, you don’t seem to have thought this entire thing through:
If McCain had stayed in Arizona, we would still have that sword of Damocles hanging over our heads, wondering if McCain would finally feel better and when he would get back to Washington DC. When would the next vote be scheduled? Would it be before or after the recess? What would McConnell do next?
Now that’s all done. The bill is dead. The deadline has passed, and they can no longer shove a bill through reconciliation with a 51-50 vote. Everything from now on has to go through cloture and get at least 60 votes to be considered.
So, is having reconciliation off the table worth it, or would we all be better off still wondering if McConnell was going t be able to pull it off?
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
Sorry I didn’t respond on your schedule, but I had a book to finish and a cat to pill. Next time, let me know that you’re breathlessly awaiting my response and I’ll try to get back to the thread sooner.
Bess
TriassicSands
@mai naem mobile:
I respect her vote — she got some serious push-back from the rest of the party and the normal thing for her to do would have been to cave.
However, it really shouldn’t be considered an act of courage to vote to stop a bill that will harm so many people. This is how twisted the vile GOP has made things in this country. It’s the world we live in now, but it is very ugly.
I think her vote was the most impressive of the three; McCain’s the least.
Mnemosyne
All right, I have to wander off again to get ready for bed. I didn’t want any other late responders to assume I was still here and not responding to them. Good night!
Peter H Desmond
@rikyrah:
it’s like a hollywood movie!
sm*t cl*de
@Bess:
A weapon that can be defeated by a mirror is not ideal. Still, nice of CNN to publish free advertisements for the Navy’s arms dealers.
ColoradoGuy
Or defeated by drifting clouds or a layer of overcast between the laser and the target. Works great in perfect weather, though.
rikyrah
@StringOnAStick:
I like that he is arrogant enough to put destroying Medicare into his budget. Shows who he is.
rikyrah
@ArchTeryx:
Yeah?
mai naem mobile
@Ruckus: @TriassicSands: I get what you are saying but she got threatened by the WH and Interior which I’d a big deal for her state. She could have easily blamed the healthcare stuff.on OBama and the House. Her fellow GOP AK senator didn’t have the balls to vote against it.
Another Scott
@ColoradoGuy: There are problems, of course, but it would be foolish to think that the problems can’t be solved. Whether it’s anywhere close to be capable of stopping a real attack is anyone’s guess.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@mai naem mobile: you would be wrong. I don’t pretend to understand the dynamic, but I can tell you that some of the most virulent racists I’ve known have had spouses/partners who were from the targets of their racial animus. I’ve heard neo-nazis argue that Milo’s professed love of Black cock means he can’t be racist. Thomas Jefferson spent his life and fathered children with Sally Hemings. Didn’t make him Lincoln.
Ruckus
@mai naem mobile:
I’m just looking at this from the standpoint of a normal human being, not a republican politician. She isn’t powerless, she isn’t helpless, she’s a senator. It’s more that she did her job, along with 2 other senators from her side of the aisle. It’s the 48 scum, led by the master scum, that voted to kill millions, for what, a few more bucks for the very, very wealthy? That specifically is not their job, and not good for the country.
She isn’t going to pay a price, or at least not one of much consequence for voting no. She may have even gotten a bigger lock on being an AK senator for as long as she wants. McCain isn’t going to pay any price for his no vote. And Collins seems like she may have made a huge personal gain by her vote, it strengthens her run for governor.