Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

“They all knew.”

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

I would gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today.

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

Reality always gets a vote in the end.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

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You are here: Home / Pet Blogging / Dog Blogging / Monday Morning Open Thread: Another Monday, Already?

Monday Morning Open Thread: Another Monday, Already?

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(Tom Toles via GoComics.com)
.

Apart from keeping our Floridian fellows in our thoughts, what’s on the agenda as we start the week?

*******

On a more upbeat note, we humans don’t deserve dogs, and yet they forgive us. From the NYTimes, “Gregory Berns Knows What Your Dog Is Thinking (It’s Sweet)”:

Dr. Gregory Berns, 53, a neuroscientist at Emory University in Atlanta, spends his days scanning the brains of dogs, trying to figure out what they’re thinking. The research is detailed in a new book, “What It’s Like to Be a Dog.”

Among the findings: Your dog may really love you for you — not for your food…

Dr. Burns: As a neuroscientist, I’d seen how M.R.I. studies helped us understand which parts of the human brain were involved in emotional processes. Perhaps M.R.I. testing could teach us similar things about dogs. I wondered if dogs had analogous functions in their brains to what we humans have.

The big impediment doing this type of testing was to find some way to get dogs into an M.R.I. and get them to hold still for long enough to obtain useful images.

I worked with an Atlanta-based dog trainer, Mark Spivak, to break down the steps that might make it possible for dogs to go into an M.R.I.

In my basement, I built an M.R.I. simulator. We introduced Callie, the family terrier, to it — acclimating her to the noise, teaching her to climb the stairs leading to the machine, recline into a head rest and be motionless for increasing periods of time.

After she mastered these tasks, we combined them, as would be necessary when she encountered a real M.R.I. It took her three months of practicing every day. After perfecting a training system, we sent out a call to local dog owners for volunteers for the study.

Since 2012, we’ve trained and scanned a total of about 90 dogs. As a matter of principle, we never restrained or drugged any. If a dog wants to get up from the M.R.I. and leave, they can. There’s no compulsion…

We did an experiment where we gave them hot dogs some of the time and praise some of the time. When we compared their responses and looked at the rewards center of their brains, the vast number of dogs responded to praise and food equally.

Now, about 20 percent had stronger responses to praise than to food. From that, we conclude that the vast majority of dogs love us at least as much as food.

Another thing that we’ve learned by showing pictures of objects and people to the dogs is that they have dedicated parts of their brain for processing faces. So dogs are in many ways wired to process faces.

This means that dogs aren’t just learning from being around us that human faces are important — they are born to look at faces. This wasn’t known before…

Reader Interactions

200Comments

  1. 1.

    raven

    This was a very interesting program

    Dogs Decoded
    How smart are dogs, and what makes them such ideal companions? Aired July 3, 2013 on PBS

    NARRATOR: The key to a dog’s ability to read our emotions might lie in something we all do without knowing it.

    DANIEL MILLS: When we express our emotions in our faces, we don’t do it symmetrically. It’s been shown that, if you take somebody’s face when they’re expressing some emotion like happiness or anger or something like that, there is a difference between the left and right side.

    NARRATOR: Composite faces consisting of two right or two left sides look very different.

    DANIEL MILLS: One of the theories is that maybe our emotions are more faithfully presented in the right side of our face, and that’s the side that we tune in to.

    And when we look at a face, we have what’s known as a natural left-gaze bias, so you naturally look much more towards the left, i.e. the right-hand side, of somebody’s face.

    NARRATOR: Eye-tracking software demonstrates that, when presented with a human face, we nearly always look left first. Daniel Mills wants to find out if dogs use the same trick to read human faces.

    DANIEL MILLS: Shifting the direction of your gaze, we thought, was fairly unique to people, until we started looking at dogs.

    ANAíS RACCA (University of Lincoln, England): Taz! Tazy!

    NARRATOR: To test the theory, his team recreates this experiment with dogs.

    ANAíS RACCA: Moose, what’s that?

    NARRATOR: They present a series of images showing human faces, dog faces and inanimate objects and record the direction of a dog’s gaze with a video camera.

    ANAíS RACCA: We found that dogs, when they are looking at pictures of dog faces or objects, they will look randomly on the left or the right.

    NARRATOR: But, when it comes to human faces, they make a remarkable discovery.

    ANAíS RACCA: So now we have Taz looking at a human face. So, first she’s looking in the middle of the screen, and here is the first eye movements on the left. She’s in the middle and she’s going on the left.

    So, now, this is Moose, and then we can see really well that this is a left gaze; from here to here. We can see the white here. She’s even moving her head.

    NARRATOR: Does this mean dogs can read human emotions? As far as we know, no other animal has this relationship with the human face. And dogs don’t do this with each other. This suggests that dogs have acquired a new skill enabling them to communicate with us on an emotional level.

    DANIEL MILLS: Being able to detect when somebody is angry or potentially going to be harmful to them, you could understand that there may be a biological advantage in being able to read people’s emotions and, equally, that it makes sense for a dog to approach somebody when they’re smiling.

  3. 3.

    Phylllis

    30 mph winds and steady rain here in Tinytown. We’re about 60 miles east of Augusta and are on the edge of the tropical storm warning area. I expect we’ll be out of school again tomorrow since the county opened the shelter in our elementary school around midday yesterday-mostly for locals who are in mobile homes or live on roads that become impassable with lots of rain.

  4. 4.

    raven

    @JPL: Probably asparagus omelet’s. I’m in the living room with the Bohdi and old Golden Greta. I was really worried about her when they got here, the wouldn’t eat and had serious mobility problems. She’s perked up nicely and we’ve decided it was the stress of the 18 hour drive that had her out of sorts. Their terrier is 15 years old and visually impaired so she an Lil Bit are wandering around bumping into each other. Then there is the chihuahua! Of course she decided she doesn’t like me even though she comes over for cookies all the time! The cats don’t seem to be an issue, we took up the carpet in the guest room and they seem content.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    @raven: I was lax in storm prep here, but I have a pantry and flashlight. If the rain isn’t to heavy this morning, I might buy a few bags of ice, just in case the power goes out later. At this point, it appears that you might get stronger bands than me.
    Enjoy the omelet!

  9. 9.

    raven

    @JPL: Yea, I bought some provisions yesterday. I have an eye doc appt @ 8:30 and I’n trying to find out if they are open.

  17. 17.

    Quinerly

    @raven:
    Glad for the update on Golden Greta! Read your post about a dog being stressed from the long trip. Thread was dead by the time I got to it. Had been looking for a subsequent post. Sounds like you have a full house.?

  19. 19.

    Quinerly

    @rikyrah:
    Good morning from Poco and his tribe! Tuck pointers here all day on exterior work. That means Poco gets to lay around inside all day and be lazy.

  20. 20.

    Another Scott

    ‘Morning all.

    Amazon tells me that my copy of Hillary’s “What Happened” will be delivered Tuesday.

    (Mervyn-Lady-Open-Open-Open.gif)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  22. 22.

    Quinerly

    @Baud:
    Any briefing materials Poco should be reviewing? He’s laying around inside all day because young men with mortar have invaded his courtyard. He has strong opinions about all those abandoned pets in Florida and he is dying to sniff a 6 toed Hemingway kitty. Baud/Poco2020?!

  27. 27.

    satby

    Good morning everyone!
    Most of the check in folks last night seemed to indicate people are coming through ok, thankfully! I haven’t been able to contact my Floridian sister, but she’s in New Jersey with a new phone so it’s not because of the storm. But I wonder how things are at my late mom’s condo.

  30. 30.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @raven:
    It has been known for a long time that domesticated animals are more aware of our body language than we are. ‘Counting’ animals are actually reading human reactions to know when to keep counting and when to stop. We don’t even know we’re putting out that signal. Reading body language includes reading emotion.

    To take that to the OP, reading emotion includes reading faces. The new result in these studies is the dedicated brain center to reading faces, and that dogs use left-gaze bias as part of reading emotion. Neither is a surprise, but it’s cool to know. I personally had not heard of left-gaze bias and it makes sense.

  34. 34.

    Quinerly

    @satby:
    I did notice that they weren’t shooting at Irma.? In sad news, a friend did post a picture of several mangled and dead flamingos in Cuba who weren’t so lucky.

  36. 36.

    raven

    @debbie: Well, we went through a great deal to build an addition so we are able to give them a room with their own bath!!! We have a nice screen porch with may not be much good later today but also a n upstairs with an office and the a studio. We’ll do some spreading out today to maintain equanimity.

  40. 40.

    Quinerly

    Reading that TN’s Bob Corker seriously weighing retirement. Bannon and Mercer money are going after him in the primary.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    God these people are insufferable:

    On his relationship with the president: “I think I’m a street fighter. And by the way, I think that’s why Donald Trump and I get along so well. Donald Trump’s a fighter. Great counter puncher. Great counter puncher. He’s a fighter. I’m going to be his wing man outside for the entire time, to protect [Trump]” and “to make sure his enemies know that there’s no free shot on goal.”

    I love how comfy this “revolution” is- they’re all making a lot of money and they’re all lauded by political media no matter what they actually accomplish, yet these puffy, pasty, coddled rich people all imagine themselves as “street fighters”

    Most comfortable revolution ever. No one ever takes any actual personal risk. Compare these clowns to the enormous personal risk, sacrifice and upheaval any random immigrant endures. I sometimes wish they WOULD burn it down- they’d all be demanding their cushy lives back in 24 hours. Soft, secure and coddled revolutionaries strutting around imagining they are in “street fights”.

  44. 44.

    HeartlandLiberal

    Let me use this thread as an opportunity to unload on Ann Coulter. Is it possible for there to be a more loathsome, selfish, evil, blind to all morality person on this planet? She even exceeds Rush Limbaugh and his stunt claiming all the news of Irma was just hype to get money for scientists who support the idea of global warming, and to sell bottled water. Of course, then lardbutt fled the state before Irma hit for “security” reasons.

    But Coulter takes the cake, with her dismissive criticism of residents of Miami who got all hot and bothered and ran from shelter because of a little excessive “humidity.” I recalled her words while watching video of the ocean taking a stroll up the streets between some of the high rise buildings in Miami, temporarily turning them into canals.

    Seriously, this is a woman who has called for the assassination of a sitting member of SCOTUS!

    Why would anyone buy her books, or want to listen for a nanosecond to any word that comes out of her mouth? Why would anyone want to anything other than lock her in a padded cell, for own safety, and the betterment of humanity?

    WTF is wrong with over a third of the citizens of this nation??

    My spousal unit was sitting at the kitchen table reading, behind me as I sat in my lazyboy with laptop, keeping up with Irma reports yesterday. All of a sudden she blurted out “That’s it, I’m moving to Europe.”

    I did not even ask why.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    Don’t tell Steve Bannon about street fighting. He tells us he attended an “integrated” private school- that’s how street smart he is. Twitter wasn’t around then but boy if it had been he would have got off some really BRUTAL Tweets. Because that’s his weapon. Like a sword, but safer. The Brietbart field hospital treats the warriors for neck sprain from staring at their phones 18 hours a day.

  51. 51.

    Quinerly

    @raven:
    My Poco sends out a giant tail wag to you! Fun facts about the other Poco: Rusty lives here in Missouri, not far from me and knows about my Poco. They have never met, though. And in February when I was at the Grand Canyon on the 4th day, a snow storm struck. I was in El Tovar, trying to get in for lunch without a reservation and was cancelling my dinner reservation that I had had for two months. (Was staying in Cameron and the park ranger said that Desert View entrance might be closing). Long story short, I’m chatting up the restaurant lady (who had a big black eye patch) who takes and cancels reservations…telling her that I really wanted lunch, could she get me in…my dog was in the car and we were staying in Cameron. Weather was screwing with me and my dinner reservation. She smiled, asked my dog’s name. When I replied, she did a huge grin, gave me one of the best seats in the house. Whispered to me, “My husband is Richie Furay.”

  53. 53.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Oh, I don’t think they should lecture him on civility. I’d like to see Bannon and Trump engaged in an actual street fight with someone. Show us. I’d like to see this coddled, puffy, privileged piece of shit take an actual physical risk- one that doesn’t involve getting his makeup done prior to a television appearance.

    You’ll notice Donald Trump never grabbed men when he was assaulting people. It was always women. He’s not opposed to getting physically aggressive, he’s opposed to grabbing someone who can fight back and knock him on his fat ass. Assaulting women isn’t about sex. It’s about violence and control- Donald Trump always picked people he has a 100 pound advantage over.

  55. 55.

    JMG

    @eclare: Manning would be giving up a lot of money if he ran. All those TV commercials would go away.Also, he’s aware enough to realize that no matter how popular you are, as a sports hero everyone may love you, but enter politics and 40 percent of people will immediately hate your guts.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    @Kay: I wish. That’ll never happen unless they decide to rough up someone’s grandmother. Even then, I only give them a 50-50 chance of winning.

  62. 62.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Quinerly:

    Hope he hasn’t just abandoned us….like you know who.?

    Good morning! You’ll be glad to know you know who is back. Was on some of last night’s threads.

  63. 63.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    God fraking God, Bibi’s son, Jews who are anti-Semites. We truely live in an age of Derp.

  71. 71.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @JMG:

    but enter politics and 40 percent of people will immediately hate your guts.

    Ok, that raises a serious question. I have been considering running for local office (county commissioner), as the current occupant is terming out next year. The county oversees various services such as public works and safety, “growth management,” and health and human services. I am torn about running – I have a nice life right now and I’m not sure I want to mess that up. As JMG points out, people hate you when you inevitably have to make decisions between shitty choice A and maybe somewhat less (or equally) shitty choice B. On the other hand, in the post-Trump era, there does seem to be a moral imperative to not let just grifters and opportunists take those jobs. I’m trained in public policy and finance (and ethics), but have never actually worked in politics besides as a volunteer.

    No one has announced candidacy yet, but the job has traditionally functioned as a sinecure for an old local family, who tend to favor the gas and oil interests. The family has run out of men to hold the job, as I understand it, so there’s a rumor that they might run an ex-wife. No confirmation.

    So, what are your thoughts on the advisability of running for any kind of local elected office? There’s an Emily’s List training for potential political candidates coming up nearby this weekend, so I have to decide whether to apply for that pretty quick.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Funny that Trump himself thought the Access Hollywood tape was very damaging, though. He knows his treatment of women is appalling. All his bullshit about “manly-man locker room talk” notwithstanding.

    So great that his voters validated the behavior that even Trump finds shameful and wants to keep hidden.

    That Access Hollywood leaker should get a medal. If only there had been a few more people with a spine. He’s been behaving like this for 50 years. There are probably hundreds of people who know all about it. No one said anything except a group of the actual victims.

    Boy, these “street fighters” are tough! Too cowardly to call out the Big Man because what about their careers?

  73. 73.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Quinerly: Ms. O goes to Las Cruces for work and is lukewarm about the restaurants she’s been to so far. She says it’s more Tex-Mex than northern New Mexican food, which makes sense given its location. La Posta de Mesilla is a fun place to go to: laposta-de-mesilla.com/history. We haven’t been to Silver City yet, but it’s supposed to be a fun town.

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @O. Felix Culpa: Apply for it. Just because you get the training doesn’t mean you have to run and the knowledge you gain may well tip the scales one way or the other.

  75. 75.

    JMG

    @O. Felix Culpa: It’s different for ordinary citizens than for people with 100 percent name recognition like Manning. You or someone like you would be a blank slate to most voters, so you’d be introducing yourself rather than working off an established identity. I have no idea what Peyton Manning’s political ideas are, but whatever they are, they would come as a rude shock to a large percentage of his fans who thought they knew him. Most important, you’d know the score coming in. The slings and arrows of politics might bother you, but they wouldn’t surprise you. Manning’s spent a lifetime being idolized. That’s the ultimate bubble.

  76. 76.

    Quinerly

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    I had the place in Mesilla on my list. Actually think I’m staying within walking distance. We have an AM commenter who I believe is from there (desertfriar???). Posted a great list on a Monday thread three-four weeks back. Thought I had copied the info but can’t locate. Will find the thread.

  78. 78.

    Jeffro

    @burnspbesq: Geez Louise, how does a state get 82 Superfund sites in 13 counties? How many additional ‘bad’ sites that didn’t quite earn that designation? How many that haven’t even been identified as hazardous at any level?

    Way to go, Texas!

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    @O. Felix Culpa: Do it! You will learn so much, you have jackals on your side, you might even win.

    Go for it.

    Elizabelle
    (Whose grandfather was a county commissioner, and loved it)

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    I have a long day of driving some beautiful stretches of countryside, with an Aghan Whigs concert at the end of it.

    Love the Afghan Whigs. Think there may still be tickets, for central Virginia fans. (And motivated DC/NoVAs; Whigs also at the 9:30 Club this tour; guessing that sold out…)

  89. 89.

    NotMax

    Storm sidebar.

    Electric car maker Tesla says it has temporarily increased the battery capacity of some of its cars to help drivers escaping Irma, which hit Florida as a hurricane, but has now weakened to a tropical storm. Source

  91. 91.

    James Powell

    @JMG:

    Manning would be giving up a lot of money if he ran. All those TV commercials would go away.

    Based on the Trump model, now totally normalized by the press/media, Manning would be free to use his position to make money. In fact, as soon as they learn that it pisses off liberals, 98% of Republicans will agree that the framers of the constitution intended that people use their elected positions to make money.

  94. 94.

    NotMax

    Making the sacred profane.

    Church compares sexual abuse conviction to Christ’s death sentence

    The archdiocese of the Colombian city of Manizales damned local judges and the attorney of a sexual abuse victim after the church was forced to take responsibility for the sex crime of one of its clergies.
    [snip]
    The clergy’s fury was spurred by a court ruling that confirmed the 20-year prison sentence of a local priest for raping a boy and the court order obligating the church to repair [sic] the victim. Source

    (From the tail end of August; still catching up on things missed while on the NY trip.)

  96. 96.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer: @satby: Thank you! I’ve submitted the application for training. Ms. O and I are ambivalent about me actually running for office, but I plan to do informational interviews with local folks I know who recently won elected positions to get a better idea of what’s involved in campaigning and then doing the job if you have the [mis]fortune to win.

  97. 97.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @satby: I think they did ok. Don’t recall details though. (It was past my bedtime when I was speed-scanning the comments.)

  98. 98.

    Quinerly

    @Amir Khalid:
    Thanks! I think I shared it while we were on that 6 week trip. The look on the wife’s face was priceless. The hotel was a zoo because of the storm. I had hoped to catch her after I ate to thank her…and see if she wanted to meet my Poco. Couldn’t find her again. She had left the little greeting station.

  99. 99.

    germy

    Joy Reid knows drumpf’s voters are not reachable.

    I operate from the notion that most of Trump’s supporters are inaccessible to me. They will not listen to me, they do not watch anything other than Fox [News] for the most part. The hardest hard-core of his supporters can only find out negative information about him incidentally — through their friends, through someone on Facebook they happen to follow, through family members who are not for him. They are so resistant to someone like me that I don’t assume they are listening to me and just not believing me. I assume they’re not listening at all.

  104. 104.

    The Moar You Know

    Among the findings: Your dog may really love you for you — not for your food…

    I am a recent dog owner. Never really had one as a kid. So I came in for the “old age” part of my wife’s dog, got almost four years with her before we had to put her down in 2014.

    That dog loved people and exercise more than food.

    Now we have new puppy, who we raised from a baby pup. He was pretty aloof. Fun little guy, but not cuddly. Oh boy has that changed over the last few months. He freakin’ adores both me and my wife. Seriously besotted with love for both of us, as we always were for him.

    I’m glad someone did the research, as you should never take anyone’s word for anything without numbers to back it up, but I could have told them this.

  105. 105.

    Baud

    Anti-Dem hate group has discovered who the true DACA villains are, and they are Trump or the Republicans.

    “This was a deal with a white supremacist that let the DREAMers down,” said Ezra Levin of Indivisible. “This is on Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer — if they fail to get the DREAM Act done, this is on them.”

  106. 106.

    Benjamin Mays

    @O. Felix Culpa: There are three questions you need to ask yourself: 1, Am I comfortable asking everyone I know for contributions, and then asking people I don’t know; 2, First campaigns are generally a long-shot, can I really emotionally handle losing after the sacrifices I (and my family) will make; and, 3, Can I make a difference and am I able to put in the hours of work necessary to do the job right? Local level service can be really rewarding in terms of the practical impact you can make on your community, but it is hard work!

  107. 107.

    NotMax

    Art in action.

    When people drive near the Tecate border crossing, about 39 miles south-east of U.S. city San Diego, they can see a photo of a giant toddler standing in Mexico and peering over the steel border wall that divides the two countries.

    The boy, standing nearly 65 feet tall, appears to grip the barrier with his fingers and peeks with evident interest from the Mexican side. Source

  108. 108.

    Barbara

    @Baud: So brinksmanship politics of the kind that Republicans push all the time — like tying Sandy disaster relief to entitlement reform — has become normalized so that, essentially, this group wants Dems to tie the debt ceiling to DACA. We shouldn’t tie the debt ceiling to anything. However much I feel for DACA recipients, I don’t think this would be a winning strategy. It would hurt not help them in the long run. If they want to lose sympathy for themselves, going after emergency relief or the debt ceiling would be a good way to do it. Blaming Schumer and, especially, Pelosi is stupid. Pelosi has clearly been trying to get Trump to change course.

  109. 109.

    DesertFriar

    @Quinerly:

    Cool, Because I lost track of the thread as well. I tried to go back and see if I could find it, but haven’t so far.

    If needed, I can recreate the list of things and restaurants. Just let me know.

  110. 110.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    @Baud: Just another indication that 2018 and 2020 ain’t no cakewalk. Never forget in this country the ONLY group that has agency is the Democratic party.

  112. 112.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer: Much appreciated. One of my questions to myself is whether I have the emotional stamina to handle being in public office. My dog adores me, but the electorate and my potential constituency will be much less uncritical.

  113. 113.

    randy khan

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    FWIW, Tesla sold the cars with two options – high capacity and lower capacity, both set by software, and told people up front what it was doing. Now, there’s a broader issue about how Tesla retains control of the software, and that’s worrisome (although no different from any of the dozens, maybe hundreds, of software licenses you use in your daily life, which maybe should be more worrisome).

  114. 114.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Benjamin Mays: Excellent questions! I can do the fundraising if I’m confident that I’m a good candidate for the job. Point #2 is somewhat easier in this situation, because “all” I have to do is win the primary. The Republicans haven’t run anyone for the last 12 years or so. We’re a rural district with typically low primary turnout. The last primary was won by a margin of 150 votes, and the runner-up was reported to be a good guy with poor campaign and people skills. A negative for me, though, is that I don’t have a Hispanic surname, which is important in these parts. I’m researching and mulling over the answers to #3.

  115. 115.

    Quinerly

    @DesertFriar:
    I think it was my Monday from hell thread. I had a houseguest here for a week…he is on dialysis, had had his third wreck since September, 2016 his first morning here, and has some dementia started that his daughter failed to share. That thread was my bright spot. It would have been 8/7 or 8/14. Thanks. I sure thought I added the info to my notebook. My email is [email protected]. Much appreciated.

  117. 117.

    Quinerly

    @NotMax:
    French artist. I have friends in Paris for a month and they posted this to FB. Think it made the front page of a Paris paper.

  125. 125.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: I am confused, wasn’t Indivisible the group that led the fight against ACA repeal? With a script from Congressional aides. Or am I thinking of something else?
    Tying DACA with Sandy repeal would be a mistake. So far the DACA leadership has been pretty politically savvy I don’t thin the person you quoted speaks for them.

  127. 127.

    Barbara

    @schrodingers_cat: No, you are not mistaken. Indivisible and Swing Left were two groups that formed after the last election. I have participated in some Swing Left events, and both have been a font of information for contacting Congress especially during the ACA repeal efforts. Honestly, I can understand a level of hysteria in the support of DACA recipients, because they are so identifiable and so sympathetic, but I do believe Pelosi and Schumer as well as many others are truly trying to execute the most effective strategy they can think of, as well as just working on Trump to roll back some of his enforcement efforts. Worst case scenario would be for people to turn against DACA because their supporters pit them against disaster relief or debt ceiling extension.

  128. 128.

    stinger

    @The Moar You Know:

    about 20 percent had stronger responses to praise than to food. From that, we conclude that the vast majority of dogs love us at least as much as food.

    It seems a pretty unscientific jump from “dogs love praise” to “dogs love us”. One can love being praised (and who among us doesn’t?) without necessarily loving the praiser.

    However, my dogs do love me! ;-)

  129. 129.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Kitty vest report: Ric and Zooey were quite active after we all had our breakfasts, seemingly asking for their vests and outdoor time. They were not happy about having the vests put on them, but they know how to run, so their partial acquiescence may mean that they think it’s worthwhile overall. They were willing to go only a short distance on the deck yesterday. I’ve started on the deck rather than the yard because they can keep within sight of each other for a while. Today Ric went all the way down to the garage, which is the other side of the house and fifteen steps down. Zooey circumnavigated the house. Both were able to get closer to the hummingbirds, who were curious about them and me. Ric flushed a rabbit, and Zooey a dove. Plus lots of fascinating smells.

  132. 132.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

    “This was a deal with a white supremacist that let the DREAMers down,” said Ezra Levin of Indivisible. “This is on Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer — if they fail to get the DREAM Act done, this is on them.”

    Da Phuq?

  133. 133.

    Amir Khalid

    @The Lodger:
    If you’ve ever interacted with a dog (or other animal) when food was not involved and it showed you affection — well, there’s your proof.

    I’m glad your dogs love you. Animals, because they pay closer attention than some humans do to human body language (or are maybe lack the social conditioning to be as easily misdirected by a poseur) can be surprisingly good judges of human character.

  135. 135.

    Kelly

    Clear blue skies and a forecast high of 91 here in the Cascade foothills. Probably the last hot summer day so hanging out on the riverbanks will get my full attention. Around an inch of rain forecast a week from now. That’s a long ways off but man would that help knock down the fires.

  136. 136.

    burnspbesq

    Am I way off base for feeling a little queasy about the way we commemorate 9/11?

    It was a terrible event, and thousands died senselessly. No doubt about that. But is anyone publicly remembering the thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, or the hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent Afghans and Iraquis, who died senselessly as a result of our misbegotten attempt to get vengeance? Or the erosion of our civil liberties that followed?

  139. 139.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @randy khan: A purchaser has the right to choose their option — the car now belongs to them. I have a BMW — it has three setting for mpg — Econo, Normal/Comfort, and Sport. I can choose which one I want when I want it. And I love it — Econo for short errands, Sport for afternoon drives, Normal/Comfort for road trips. Of course, I believe the same thing for software, medical records, e-mail, web browsing, etc. — that is mine because I pay for it.

  140. 140.

    catclub

    this group wants Dems to tie the debt ceiling to DACA. We shouldn’t tie the debt ceiling to anything. However much I feel for DACA recipients, I don’t think this would be a winning strategy.

    @Barbara:

    I don’t see it. If the GOP HAS to pass the debt ceiling increase, and the Democrats may or may not supply the needed votes, since the GOP has a large crazy faction, why not demand something for that vote.

  142. 142.

    Another Scott

    @burnspbesq: My next door neighbor was killed at the Pentagon on 9/11. His widow has done a lot of good helping with PTSD, etc., using her Golden as a therapy dog. One of my step-mom’s neices just made it out of the Twin Towers….

    But I agree with you. Too many curs want us to treat it like some great patriotic Victory Day, Rah-Rah America, etc., etc. “Bush kept us safe!”

    :-(

    It was an avoidable tragedy. Bush and his henchmen learned the wrong lessons from it, and we’re still paying the gigantic cost.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  145. 145.

    rikyrah

    THREAD:

    Jeff McFadden‏ @homemadeguitars
    I’m sorry, but I absolutely Do. Not. Believe. That real American Democrats are leading the attacks on Hillary. Never, in my 50+ years 1/?

    9:26 AM – 10 Sep 2017

    2. active in American politics, have I seen a party stridently attack
    their own candidate, not even one who had lost fair and square,

    3. (which Hillary provably did not do) for writing a book after the
    election. I don’t know who is leading this process, but I feel confident

    4. that whoever it is has money to make if Democrats fail to recover and become a governing majority. I will grant you that

    5. a mind-boggling percentage of Americans don’t have a clue how our Federal Government works or why we have one, but simple ignorance

    6. isn’t enough to explain the vitriol, the intensity, or the efficiency
    of the attacks on Hillary, or on any other Democratic rising star,

    7. especially a female one.
    Politicians write books and give speeches. They always have, or at least for all of my 70 years.

    8. This outpouring of hatred and rage is absolutely unprecedented. THIS IS NOT A COINCIDENCE. Nor an accident. Not this many people woke up

    9. one morning and said, The greatest outrage in my life today is that Hillary Clinton wrote a semi-tell-all political book.
    Bullshit. Not.

    10. Fake Democrats, fake Progressives, and real suckers have joined together to take down the candidate who got the most votes.

    12. Yes, I believe that real not-Republicans, by whatever title they
    choose to call themselves, are gullible enough to fall for this shit,

    13. follow this shit, and perpetuate this shit, but I feel absolutely
    certain that somewhere at the top, in Russia, or in an office run by

    14. somebody named Koch, or Mercer, or Karl Rove, or one of their ilk, there is a think group writing, spreading, observing the success of,

    15. all this anti-Hillary, anti-Kamala, and broad spectrum anti-Democratic propaganda.
    It’s too good. It’s too effective. The timing is

    16. too perfect, and the coverage is too total, for it to be an accident. I choose to not refute the claims on a case-by-case basis, partly

  147. 147.

    TenguPhule

    @Barbara:

    We shouldn’t tie the debt ceiling to anything.

    This, a thousand times this.

    Newt should be burned alive at the stake for starting this shit.

  148. 148.

    TenguPhule

    @catclub:

    If the GOP HAS to pass the debt ceiling increase, and the Democrats may or may not supply the needed votes, since the GOP has a large crazy faction, why not demand something for that vote.

    What Omnes said. Also the optics are terrible and the last thing we want is for debt ceiling obstruction to be considered “both sides” by actually copying the Republicans on this shit.

  151. 151.

    Kelly

    Democrats should not agree to raise the debt ceiling. Democrats should agree to eliminate the debt ceiling. The right wing will get a Democrats want to spend your money talking point for an annoyingly long time. Worth the cost.

  152. 152.

    But her emails!!!

    @TenguPhule:

    Bullshit. If Democrats can get a deal where they get the Dream Act in exchange for automatic debt ceiling increases they should do it. There’s no reason not to get paid twice.

  154. 154.

    Barbara

    @catclub: They did tie it to something, which was the willingness to carry the burden of votes on disaster relief. Ninety (90) Republicans in the House voted against it. It would not have passed without Democrats. I would not foreclose ever doing something similar with DACA, but I think debt ceiling brinksmanship is bad and, although I regret saying this, I don’t think DACA is nearly as big of an issue overall as it is for some of us. I expect that even with Democratic votes, it was not a foregone conclusion that having a DACA rider to the debt ceiling would have passed the House or gotten the president’s signature. IMHO, he is focused on disaster relief because he saw how much GWB’s competence in assisting New Orleans after Katrina hurt him. This is an ego thing, not a policy or electoral success imperative. Trump doesn’t want to look bad. At this point, he barely understands DACA and he is hardly likely to go to the mat for it.

  155. 155.

    TenguPhule

    @But her emails!!!:

    If Democrats can get a deal where they get the Dream Act in exchange for automatic debt ceiling increases they should do it. There’s no reason not to get paid twice.

    There are many reasons not to fuck around with the debt ceiling. And chief among them is that ITS NOT OKAY TO USE THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS A FUCKING BARGAINING CHIP.

    Once you normalize that shit, and Democrats trying to play ball on this for the DREAM Act WILL fucking normalize it, you release genies you will never be able to put back.

    Any Democrat that tries should be destroyed and driven out of the party with literal tar and feathers.

    This should not even be up for fucking debate. This is one of those basic fundamental questions with only one right answer, like whether or not torture is bad.

  157. 157.

    But her emails!!!

    @TenguPhule:
    1. Republicans have already normalized this and let the genie out of the bottle.
    2. The situation I’m describing both helps out the Dreamers and puts the genie back in the bottle and corks it.

  159. 159.

    Kay

    My daughter is in a graduate program for health care. It’s a small program and the students have gotten quite close. They go to each other’s houses, etc. Anyway, they all found out Sat night that one of them is a dreamer- she came from Vietnam when she was 7. They’re upset and worried for her but it sounds like they’re all rallying around her in a really nice way.

    My daughter loathes Trump but now she’s like spitting bullets and she’s such a calm person ordinarily! To see her kind of wrath towards him is out of character.

  160. 160.

    Barbara

    @But her emails!!!:

    1. I don’t think we should go along with normalizing it because the demands will become ever more extreme.

    2. I think you are overstating the political importance of the Dreamers to the Republican party. Sad but true.

    ETA: I don’t understand why you think the genie would be put back in the bottle and corked. I really don’t.

  161. 161.

    Ruckus

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    It was easier for Tesla to create one system and restrict it and charge less for one over the unrestricted model. What they did was temp remove the range restriction for people in affected states to make it easier for them to leave. They also told people about this when they bought the car and offered, for money of course, to remove the restriction anytime the owner wanted.
    I have a few qualms about this myself but reality is that if you have a OBD II car/truck, which will be less than 20 yrs old, it can also be reprogrammed or chipped as it’s known. And as I understand it, Tesla told customers about this up front and updates software on a routine basis. Think VW diesels and their software to fool the EPA. The only differences are that what VW did was illegal and they would have to take your car into a dealer to change it. Tesla not having a lot of dealers would make that near impossible.

  162. 162.

    TenguPhule

    @But her emails!!!:

    1. No, its not. Only Republicans have done this so far and as much as our failure of a media tries to normalize it, they can’t both sides this because our side isn’t cooperating. The moment any Democrat does what you suggest, we lose our moral edge on this issue and make it harder going forward to get the debt ceiling passed without more and more agendas attached to it.

    2. No it does not. What it does is risk making Dreamers unpopular across the whole political spectrum, tarnishes Democratic support with the public, gives the Bernie-bro/Stein-true believers fresh ammunition about actual justified “corruption on both sides!”, and threatens to turn the debt ceiling increases into larded pork sandwiches were every member will demand a price for their vote.

  163. 163.

    But her emails!!!

    @Barbara:

    If you passed a law that automated increasing/eliminated the debt ceiling, how exactly would it not defuse the issue? The problem now is that every time the debt ceiling is reached, you need congress to vote to increase it, which leads to the current crap that’s happening. If you eliminate the limit, or have it raise automatically based on approved spending there’s no need for a vote.

    Trump’s expressed interest in both removing the cap and helping dreamers (regardless of how honest he’s being). I say push a bill that contains both and see if you can get it introduced and to his desk.

  164. 164.

    Barbara

    @But her emails!!!: Removing the cap would be ideal, but I don’t see how that gets out of Congress at all at this point, let alone if it is tied to DACA legislation. Eventually, and really already, Republicans are going to start legislating independently of what Trump wants if what he wants strays too far afield from what they have always wanted. I would love to believe you are right, I am not arguing with your goals, but I don’t think you are right that this is an achievable short term goal.

  165. 165.

    But her emails!!!

    @TenguPhule:

    I get the feeling that you aren’t getting what I’m actually writing. I’m not suggesting DACA be traded for a one time increase in the debt ceiling. I’m suggesting it be packaged along with a permanent removal of the debt ceiling or a system where it automatically increases based on approved spending, Trump’s expressed interest in both, so he might be willing to push it and sign it.

  166. 166.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah: I think next time, before I get in a fight with my leftier-than-thou friends on FB, I’ll just reference this tweet storm, because it says what I want to say way better than I can.

  168. 168.

    Ruckus

    @burnspbesq:
    I don’t think you are. I’m going to ramble a bit, this is not a proper coherent response, just some thoughts sort of strung together.
    In this country we, that’s the collective we, celebrate winning and we whine about losing. We lost on 9/11 and we didn’t win in the middle east in all these years to make up for it.
    We celebrate individual solders, and talk about the military but we don’t really support them. We forget about their lives or we actively ignore them, unless it makes us feel somehow better.
    We refuse to feel shame about a response to an attack that did nothing, solved nothing, in fact made things far worse. A lot of other countries are no better in the shame dept for sure but they also don’t use their militaries in ways that don’t really make sense. Most other countries have a defense posture, we have an offense posture. It’s not a good look in a country.

  169. 169.

    But her emails!!!

    @Barbara:

    I don’t know. It might be unrealistic, but I suspect that at this point Ryan and McConnell might be willing to negotiate on this as they probably don’t want to have to hand over a pound of flesh to the Democrats every time the debt ceiling comes up for a vote. They were trying to push it down the road 18 months as it was.

  170. 170.

    Another Scott

    @Kelly: The Debt Ceiling is a construction to get around the Constitutional requirements about how the government funds and pays for things (to prevent the House from having to vote to let the Pentagon or the Department of Agriculture spend money, among other things).

    They need to bring back the Gephardt Rule:

    Well, anyway. The obvious question is, why have two steps? Why not just agree that the debt ceiling will rise to accommodate what Congress agrees to spend? After all, decisions about spending should be hashed out in the budget. That’s the point of having them. Breaking the process into two steps only creates the possibility of default, which would harm everyone. (Just ask Wall Street.)

    In 1979, this very thought occurred to a young congressman named Richard Gephardt, who proceeded to do something about it. “I had just gotten to Congress,” Gephardt explained to me recently. “Tip O’Neill, the legendary speaker, gave me the assignment to pass the debt ceiling [increase].” Back then, the ceiling was below $1 trillion, a fraction of the $14.3 trillion it is today. But Gephardt’s job was difficult and lousy nonetheless. “We [Democrats] were in charge of Congress, but nobody ever wanted to vote for it. Republicans wouldn’t give us votes, so it was our responsibility. Every time it came up I had to go to every member and seek their vote. It was painful and difficult and, I thought, unnecessary. I’d say to members, ‘Did you vote for the appropriations bill? The defense bill? The highway bill?’ They’d all say yes. And I’d say, ‘Well, then you gotta pay the bill. If you didn’t mean it, don’t vote for it. Then you wont have to pay for it.'”

    Gephardt realized that the easiest way to fix the problem and impose some rationality on the process, was to do away with the second vote. He consulted the parliamentarian. “I asked if there was a way that when we pass the budget [the debt ceiling] can be deemed ‘raised’ to accommodate the budget people are voting for,” Gephardt said. “He said, ‘Yeah, we think we can work that out.'”

    Thus was born the “Gephardt rule.” For a period thereafter, the adoption of the conference report on the budget resolution would trigger the Gephardt rule and “deem to have passed” legislation raising the debt limit to accommodate the spending and revenue levels approved in the budget. Presto! Problem solved.

    It didn’t last. When Republicans took back the House in 1995, they brought back the second vote as a way to pressure members on spending. “They actually wavered back and forth,” Gephardt recalled. “Sometimes they’d use the budget procedure to wave it through, and then other times they’d require the vote. It’s silly because it’s just grandstanding. David Obey used to call it posing for holy pictures. It’s a facade; it’s not real. If you’re real, you vote for budgetary and spending decisions that would balance the budget. If that’s what you want, that’s what you should do. That’s the operative vote. That’s where the money is spent.”

    That’s the solution. But the GOP and the Teabaggers would rather have a hostage they can threaten to kill than to actually help govern the country, so don’t expect it to be implemented as long as they can block a sensible vote.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  171. 171.

    Brachiator

    @HeartlandLiberal:

    Let me use this thread as an opportunity to unload on Ann Coulter. Is it possible for there to be a more loathsome, selfish, evil, blind to all morality person on this planet?

    Probably not.

  172. 172.

    rikyrah

    Palmer Report‏ @PalmerReport

    The media is now officially giving more grief to Hillary Clinton than to white supremacist traitor Steve Bannon. This is why we’re in hell.
    6:10 PM – 10 Sep 2017

  173. 173.

    TenguPhule

    @But her emails!!!:

    I’m suggesting it be packaged along with a permanent removal of the debt ceiling or a system where it automatically increases based on approved spending, Trump’s expressed interest in both, so he might be willing to push it and sign it.

    1. Paul Ryan would never let it come to the floor for a vote.

    2. The GOP would never let it pass in the House or the Senate.

    3. Bundling the debt ceiling, even as a permanent automatic increase, with anything else opens the doors to “both sides” as it would almost certainly not pass but now be precedent for larding increases with pet agendas.

  174. 174.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    The media is now officially giving more grief to Hillary Clinton than to white supremacist traitor Steve Bannon. This is why we’re in hell.

    Fuckit. Village them all.

  176. 176.

    Amir Khalid

    Since it’s still Sept 11 on your side of the globe, why not mark the occasion by listening to at least some of Springsteen’s The Rising album? It’s heartfelt, full of reflection, prayerful, and deeply moving.

  177. 177.

    TenguPhule

    @But her emails!!!:

    I say push a bill that contains both and see if you can get it introduced and to his desk.

    Tying the elimination of the debt ceiling to Dreamers gives cover to every single Republican to oppose it on principle. Yes, its a sick joke since Republicans have no principles, but our media is not very smart about this.

  179. 179.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    Kris Kobach, Trump voter fraud panel a fraud in itself is hellbent on voter suppression

    And yet the stupid Democrats on the panel still refuse to leave.

    Depressing.

  180. 180.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @But her emails!!!: Last I checked the GOP controls both the House and the Senate, it’s only the utter incompetence of the GOP that Nancy and Summer were able to get away with that deal. The one and only thing that unites the Republicans is hatred of all things liberal so your littler master plan would just undo all that

  181. 181.

    bemused

    @Kay:

    Donnie’s idea of tough and intimidating is using his aggressive tug of war handshake move on men and women.

  182. 182.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule:

    And yet the stupid Democrats on the panel still refuse to leave.

    I don’t know. Maybe they think they can register dissent.

    Would you prefer that Democrats simply leave governing to the Republicans?

  183. 183.

    Ruckus

    @But her emails!!!:
    Your goal is laudable. But the overall cost to our hugely divided congress and electorate would far outweigh the return. Even counting every single of those lives disrupted and ruined or ended. First, democrats are fighting for political survival, even though we won the popular vote. It’s all that money that was spent to restrict voting, to elect morons to local office, the tea party/freedumb caucus, the super rich tax relief, etc, all of that has a goal to crush democrats and defeat any political power that we might have. Hopefully we will prevail because the other side is so evil, short sighted and really only has one issue, tax cuts for the rich. Tying the debt ceiling and any bill, no matter how good is a very dangerous approach. You are trading away way too much for, while a very worthwhile gain, way too little. We are currently very weak, the only thing we have going for us is their stupidity. And they aren’t all that stupid.

  184. 184.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    Would you prefer that Democrats simply leave governing to the Republicans?

    I’d prefer that there be no Democratic cover for this voter-suppression panel. Clear lines are wonderful things to have, especially in politics.

  185. 185.

    TenguPhule

    @Ruckus:

    We are currently very weak, the only thing we have going for us is their stupidity. And they aren’t all that stupid.

    Worse, some of them can learn.

  186. 186.

    TenguPhule

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions has told associates he wants to put the entire National Security Council staff through a lie detector test to root out leakers. It’s unclear whether this will ever happen, but Sessions floated the idea to multiple people, as recently as last month.
    Sessions’ idea is to do a one-time, one-issue, polygraph test of everyone on the NSC staff. Interrogators would sit down with every single NSC staffer (there’s more than 100 of them), and ask them, individually, what they know about the leaks of transcripts of the president’s phone calls with foreign leaders. Sessions suspects those leaks came from within the NSC, and thinks that a polygraph test — at the very least — would scare them out of leaking again.

    Axios via Digby.

    This. is. not. normal.

  188. 188.

    Amir Khalid

    @TenguPhule:
    Sessions should know this: Polygraphs are a bogus technology. A lie detector (or polygraph) doesn’t actually detect lies. What it detects is physical signs of nervousness — increased pulse rate, faster breathing, things like that. It won’t catch a confident liar who is not nervous. It can’t tell whether a person is nervous because they’re lying, or because being hooked up to a lie detector and interrogated makes them nervous. The conclusions of a polygraph operator are inadmissible in court.

    On second thought, I think Sessions does know this; how could any lawyer not know? He just wants to intimidate people because he can.

  190. 190.

    TenguPhule

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Yes, what is with that?

    I have no idea. The Delaware guy was peddling “yes, I don’t like what we’re doing, but somebody has to be here to mitigate the worst excesses of the panel”.

    Its been obvious for awhile that this panel is a sick joke. Why he thinks staying on will somehow make it less bad is beyond me.

  191. 191.

    Kelly

    @Another Scott: Thanks. Seems this is another issue where for most of our history our elected officials felt responsible to make the government work. Now, not so much. Taking the last of my coffee and walking down to the river bank.

  192. 192.

    Brachiator

    @Amir Khalid:

    On second thought, I think Sessions does know this; how could any lawyer not know? He just wants to intimidate people because he can.

    So, we had Trump alienating the intelligence agencies, and now Sessions alienating the Justice Department. What a bunch of sad sacks.

    But the Fox News crowd will read this as clearing out the deep state traitors.

  193. 193.

    The Moar You Know

    Am I way off base for feeling a little queasy about the way we commemorate 9/11?

    It was a terrible event, and thousands died senselessly. No doubt about that. But is anyone publicly remembering the thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, or the hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent Afghans and Iraquis, who died senselessly as a result of our misbegotten attempt to get vengeance? Or the erosion of our civil liberties that followed?

    @burnspbesq: No. It’s fucking horrific and completely undignified. Because of the things you’ve stated and quite a few you haven’t.

  194. 194.

    stinger

    @Amir Khalid: Amir, I think you may have meant to reply to me?? I think dogs (and other animals) can and do love humans. I was commenting on the non-scientificness of the conclusions purportedly being drawn from the experiment, as described in the article excerpt.

  195. 195.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule:

    I’d prefer that there be no Democratic cover for this voter-suppression panel. Clear lines are wonderful things to have, especially in politics.

    And I’d prefer that dissent be on the record.

    Clear lines are good in fashion and for automobiles. Ain’t got nothing to do with politics.

  196. 196.

    Amir Khalid

    @stinger:
    Yes, I did. Don’t know how that happened. I agree that dogs do love their humans, but the data at hand could mean merely that they are easily distracted from food. Concluding that dogs love people more than food rewards is a bit of a reach.

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    Would you prefer that Democrats simply leave governing to the Republicans?

    No.
    You can’t fight if you don’t show up.
    If you don’t fight you can’t win.
    It’s one thing to be in the minority, it’s another thing completely to just give up. MLK would be ashamed. He showed up, he did what he had to do, he did what was right. It’s a lesson that we all need to be reminded of once in a while, lest we forget that hate and bigotry will always be with us, we can remove the barriers and remove the restrictive laws but to do that you have to be there, you have to win elections, you have to participate, you have to fight the real fight in the face of opposition. And eventually the hate and bigotry will become much less an issue.

  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:

    He just wants to intimidate people because he can.

    Isn’t this the entire concept of bigots? Power and intimidation.
    Remove that and all they have is to live with themselves. Even they know better than that.

Comments are closed.