Nancy Pelosi makes explicit what has been widely assumed but unstated: If Democrats win the House, “I will run for speaker.” https://t.co/0aEoxmLa43
— Russell Berman (@russellberman) May 1, 2018
“It’s important that it not be five white guys at the table, no offense,” Pelosi said, referring to the top two leadership spots in the House and Senate and the presidency. “I have no intention of walking away from that table.” https://t.co/KsqV9I4Mqm
— Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) May 1, 2018
And a dozen Democrats running in ‘red to purple’ districts get to shake their heads sadly, before explaining how they, of course, would never vote for that mean ol’ lady Pelosi. Thereby sparing them from having to make promises that might actually get them into trouble, when (if) they’re elected. (Just as I would never run away with George Clooney for a wild weekend at his Italian villa — it wouldn’t be fair to poor Amal. The certainty that Mr. Clooney is not about to ask me in no way negates my feminist solidarity.)
Across the aisle, a million miles away…
Paul Ryan says increased moral relativism has made Congress a worse place than when he first started.@stephenfhayes asks if President Trump's election was a symptom of that moral relativism.
“Nice try," Ryan replies, chuckling. "You think I’m going to take that?”
— Haley Byrd (@byrdinator) April 30, 2018
There’s more and more recognition all the time—and rightly so under Trump—that right wing politics is built on this foundation of feigned outrage and bad faith.
And it all goes out the window, as it did this weekend, when when conservatives direct the bad faith at the media. https://t.co/CZhIiwPUCF
— Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) May 2, 2018
It is vast and correct consensus of the press corps that if Obama was one-tenth as corrupt and dishonest as Trump, the right would have been even more awash in fake outrage than it was from 2009-2016.
Yet this consensus occasions no systemic rethinking of how to cover politics.
— Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) May 2, 2018
Nobody doubts that this is true, and yet when the balance of power shifts again, the right will resume pretending to be outraged over nonsense, and reporters in general (though not Swin specifically) will proceed as if it’s all sincere. https://t.co/JtyiC90lXN
— Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) May 2, 2018
Nah, it would’ve still been fake, because as we are seeing, Republicans don’t actually care about corruption and dishonesty, per se.
— Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) May 2, 2018
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone ???
rikyrah
Good collection of tweets. A nice gathering of receipts against the GOP and the MSM.
?BillinGlendaleCA
I’m all for Leader Pelosi running for Speaker, she’s really good at the job; however we really do need to groom younger members for leadership.
Betty Cracker
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The Dems do have some younger folks at the party whip level, though: Sinema, Castro, Ellison, Sewell, etc. Maybe it’s time for Steny Hoyer to let one of them have a crack at a top job.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Jeffro
No more false equivalence ever again
No more “both sides”
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, implicit in Pelosi’s statement is that anyone who would replace her would be a white guy. That’s not a great state of affairs for our party.
Betty Cracker
Funny how it’s always women who should shut up and go away. According to Michelle Cottle at The Atlantic, Hillary Clinton is going to doom the Democrats in the midterms if she doesn’t zip it about 2016. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney, who was a harsh critic of Trump before crawling to the steakhouse to lick Trump’s wingtips in hopes of landing the Secretary of State gig, is running for senate in a state he doesn’t really live in, and that’s okay. No one is telling him to shut the fuck up.
I’ve mentioned before: a wingnut down the road from me has a “Fire Pelosi” bumper sticker on his truck — has had that sticker for at least five years. We are thousands of miles from Pelosi’s district. But I honestly don’t think the prospect of Pelosi as speaker swings a single vote that Democrats would have otherwise collected. If you hate Pelosi that fucking much, you’re a Trump-voting asshole who will definitely vote for whatever wingnut hairball the local GOP horks up. End of story.
beth
I just heard Morning Joe refer to Trump as “that lifelong Democrat from Queens”. Boy when he finally goes down it’s going to be nothing but “Donald who?” from the right.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Not you!
Baud
@beth: It’ll be up to us to remind people about him.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: I like your thinkin’ Betty.
OzarkHillbilly
I finally got “hate honked” yesterday and it was really pretty funny. I was cautiously making a turn at a funky intersection (with turn signal on) and after my turn this older white guy behind me just totally and completely loses it as he drives on, flipping me off and screaming at me with waaaayyyy over the top spittle flecked rage… with his windows up so I couldn’t hear a damn thing he said. After I responded in my usual restrained and perfectly reasonable manner, I tried to figure out what I could have possibly done to piss him off and then it came to me: I have the nerve to hate on the great orange one and speak of it. I’ve been wearing a smile on my face ever since.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
High five! ✋
Derelict
I’m looking forward to all my Democratic friends and family screeching about how Pelosi has to go and should not be Speaker again. “Why?” I ask them. “Because she’s hated,” they say.
Hated by whom? Conservatives. And waaaayyy too many Democrats have bought into that narrative.
Conservatives hate Pelosi because she’s savvy, effective, and a genuine leader who gets things done. And, of course, because she’s a woman. We need to celebrate that, not buy into the Rightwing’s wish-list to get a soft-spined Speaker when Dems regain power.
bystander
It would seem to me that the repubs loathing of Pelosi would make Democrats more solidly behind her. What actual Dem ever has a criticism of her other than her age and that she reps San Francisco? Who ever makes actual charges of incompetence or corruption?
Meanwhile the bothsiderists are the greatest moral relativists when they tell us that there’s no difference between people who believe in science and economics, who believe in equality before the law and in the paycheck and people who believe the opposite.
Baud
@Derelict: I bet they also complain about how Dems are so weak.
Steve in the SFO
@bystander: what Dem doesn’t love San Francisco?
Steve in the SFO
@bystander: I don’t care for her speaking voice, but the things she says are great! Except that “impeachment is off the table” business back in the shrub kakistocracy
Schlemazel
@bystander:
Bernies boys make charges against Pelosi often. Naturally they cannot back those up with any examples but, you know, if there is smoke there must be fire
Steve in the SFO
@Baud:
Oh, they must have been watching me bench press….
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Maybe I’m still waking up, but how could that driver have known?
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel:
Blowing smoke up our asses, you mean.
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning ?!
MomSense
Increased moral relativism is the problem according to Fuck You Paul Ryan?!?! I just can’t with that shitheel. I just can’t.
satby
@debbie: I believe OH mentioned a bumper sticker on his truck previously. Now I want one!
JPL
@Betty Cracker: It would be great for Steny to step aside, or be gently nudged out.
debbie
@satby:
I would too, but I got my windshield smashed many years ago over a bumper sticker (NH during the Timberlane teachers’ strike).
Baud
@MomSense: It is the problem. See how Trump is being graded on a curve.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: One look at the back of my truck tells everyone exactly how I feel.
kingweasil
pelosi has every right to run, but after the Globe backed mcain and palin i had enough of my hometown paper. then they skewed the stats on the MBTA bus maintenance record so charlie baker could privatize the machinists,a well running operation to outside vendors,hitting closer to home… frig the globe, a once proud democratic institution in massachusetts
aimai
@Baud: ISn’t that because none of the old white guys in the leadership below her is making room for a younger crowd?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Betty Cracker: Great suggestion. Zing!
JPL
I read that Sen Isakson stated that Trump’s statement about Jackson were false. He has let Tester speak previously, because republicans in general are fearful of the president and his tweets. It’s nice to see him step forward.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the SFO: Major*4, he’s trying to leave.
JPL
@Baud: No one should be graded with that much of a curve.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Nice!
Baud
@aimai: Sure. But none of the people attacking Pelosi really care about that.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
Open thread. I’m speaking at the library’s local author series tonight and I’m nervous. I shouldn’t be. I’m usually a good speaker. But I really am. I blame Trump.
Steve in the SFO
@JPL: first time he’s shown leadership on anything
@?BillinGlendaleCA: he had a traumatic experience at the last B-J SF meet up
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Congrats!
Steve in the SFO
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): get coked up, ramble incoherently, and insist repeatedly that there was no collusion.
You live in a red state—play to your audience!
mai naem mobile
I am not sure there’s anybody better than Pelosi for Speaker if the Dems take back the house. You want somebody with a ton of exoerience who also knows how to work with the opposite party in the executive branch and knows how to pass legislation and has been around during an impeachment. BTW Hoyer is horrible on teevee. He can’t even defend Dem positions strongly.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Don’t forget your Baud! 2020! sign.
satby
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): You’re going to do great! Once you start, you’ll swing right into it.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Was that one finger or two? And was there an accompanying soundtrack?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Steve in the SFO: They would just assume I was senile. Wait. Maybe that’s Trump’s ploy too.
mai naem mobile
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):Just imagine some random person sitting towards the front being stark nekkid.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): In Trump’s case, that ain’t no ploy.
SFAW
@Schlemazel:
It’s not just that “wing” that goes after her. Seth Moulton (MA), a sensible centrist, also thinks she’s a problem, because veeblefetzer.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mai naem mobile:
Baud’s going to be there?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Baud: I do need a sign.
@satby: That’s probably true. I’ll go to the gym shortly and work off some of my nerves.
OzarkHillbilly
@aimai:
It is hard to make the criticism that those guys are too old if one is not willing to point the same finger at Pelosi. Personally, I think it is all much ado about nothing. The DEM house members pick their leaders as they see fit for reasons that range from being very effective to being a good fund raiser. Relatively young is rarely a point in ones favor if it comes with a short track record.
debbie
Fuck Ryan, fuck all conservatives who have destroyed the notion of common good. Nothing has been more damaging to this country than that.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: We’re trying to calm her nerves, not excite her.
SFAW
@mai naem mobile:
I seem to recall Hoyer being one of those sensible centrists, although not totally so.
SFAW
@debbie:
Too long for a bumper sticker, but maybe put it on one of those super-large refrigerator magnets, slap it on the side(s) of the car.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: Yes, yes, and yes.
OzarkHillbilly
Click bait: Calgary: man’s body found trapped behind women’s toilet in shopping mall
You want to know more, admit it.
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Well, that’s your problem right there. You should be blaming Obama and Hitlary.
Have I taught you nothing?
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
You have learned well, Grasshopper.
Baud
Oh good. Facebook is getting into dating services.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m sure that nothing could possibly go wrong with that. I did hear on the news that you can’t date your friends. I think the only friend that I have on FB that’s female is the kid, so that’s probably a good thing.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@SFAW: God, I miss Obama.
Baud
I understand Kanye is a publicity hound, but I see no reason why he should be treated any better than Roseanne or any other Trump supporter.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Probably.
OzarkHillbilly
He has company:
JR
@Steve in the SFO: Me, kinda. I like having money.
oldgold
Does Pelosi’s announcement make it more or less likely the Democrats win a majority of the House this November?
The answer to that question is all I care about.
Platonailedit
@oldgold: If dem voters can be arsed to vote, then yes. She is not vote goddess.
OzarkHillbilly
@oldgold: I doubt it has any effect at all. If one is going to vote for the party of trump because of Pelosi, they were never going to vote DEM to begin with.
tobie
In my deep red district (MD-1), one of the Democratic candidates for the House has said regarding Pelosi that she’s lost touch with her constituents. I’m not even sure what that’s supposed to mean. As far as I can tell Pelosi’s policies pretty much line up with her San Francisco constituents. They may not line up with the views of the Eastern Shore of Maryland but she doesn’t represent us in Congress. Anyhow: I’m torn. This fellow seems like the only candidate who could beat our current Freedom Caucus Rep, but I can’t vote for someone in the primary who would say something so dumb.
Baud
@tobie: If you think he’s the only one who can win, then vote for him.
Baud
@oldgold: More likely because now Dems can stop being distracted by this issue.
JPL
@tobie: Early voting has started in GA, and it might be the first primary that I skip. I’ll support the democratic nominee in the fall. Do you vote for the person you think can win, or the one that aligns more with your views.
So Baud answered my question
tobie
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Good luck! I’m sure the talk will go swell.
Baud
@JPL: Winning supercedes everything else.
Booger
@Baud: Isn’t that just getting back to its roots? I thought MZ developed it as a tool to rank undergrads by looks?
Baud
@JPL:
It’s a more difficult question when you think multiple people can win but they have different chances. But if you think only one person is viable, then that’s the ball game IMHO.
Steve in the SFO
@Baud:
This is why I voted for baud
tobie
@Baud: @JPL: It’s the old conundrum: should one vote with one’s heart or one’s head in the primary. At the end of the day, the head should win. Voting is not dating. You vote for the person most likely to advance your interests, and that means someone who has a chance of winning. But, damn, it really is slim pickin in deep read districts/states.
Frankensteinbeck
I know the viewpoint pushed by MSNBC is that Pelosi is dangerously unpopular. Maddow will look under any rock to find someone to say they don’t support Pelosi. The evidence all seems to be anecdotal, but it is the Narrative.
Aleta
Sounds like the start of a horror movie.
MomSense
@Baud:
I think it’s pretty clear that trump and Ryan and the rest of the stinkin’ GOP are immoral. Ryan is probably the biggest psychopath of the bunch but he covers himself in the cloak of Christianity and family man. He’s a total fraud.
MomSense
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’m at the point where I don’t care. I think she’s the best for a lot of reasons but if a D candidate feels s/he needs to run against her to win, well ok then. I do t think Pelosi cares either because she will be the speaker if we retake the House.
We have to win first.
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie: You are in a deep red district. One can not possibly win without being or at least playing to the stupid.
Central Planning
@tobie: if she has lost touch with her constituents, why do they keep electing her? What would your guy say about that?
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: WTF? What is Ms Wordy who never gets to the point’s problem?
GR
@Betty Cracker:
R’s and conventional wisdom wanted Romney gone.
WaPo
RCP
buzzfeed
Daily Banter
Newsmax discussion of the assertion
NY Post
Washington Examiner
Links are all from one Google search taking under 3 minutes. The truth is out there — and this assertion from HRC simply isn’t true.
Dave
@MomSense: Exactly Pelosi is a strong speaker but if you live in reddish district and feel you have to ding her whatever go ahead an do it. It’s not a big deal to me as long as you are solid vote on important issues. Fairly sure it’s not a bid deal to Pelosi either. She unlike some people isn’t an overgrown man-child.
Peale
@Aleta: since it’s never been seen before, how do they know it’s not supposed to be a five legged beetle?
Jeffro
Oh hey look, who could have expected that Ross Douthat would pick up right where that creepy GMU economist Robert Hanson left off, about the need to ‘redistribute’ sex so that “incels” get a little action?
NYT, you already had enough to answer for with your anti-Hillary bullshit. But this? Seriously??
Ross…I can’t even…
Helpmehelpmehelpmehelpme, Lil’ Ross says…
Isn’t it funny how EVERY. ISSUE. comes back to this for Ross? Not that Hanson is a sick individual and now let’s move on…it’s “Hanson, ‘brilliant weirdo’ that he is, essentially dovetails with my solution for EVERYTHING”
All that valuable op-ed space, wasted on Chunky Bobo…
Frankensteinbeck
@MomSense:
I strongly support Pelosi and I don’t think she’s any danger to our prospects at all. I also think the idea of a revolt against her from her caucus is laughably unlikely. But it is the Narrative, pushed by even the liberal press! It is weird to me to watch, and I swear Maddow has something personal against Pelosi. I assume when she gets the Speakership with a unanimous Democratic vote the Narrative will be how there was ALMOST an en mass defection but people just barely decided to hang together against Republicans.
schrodingers_cat
@Jeffro: Boycott Vichy Times, all they do is normalize Nazis.
ETA: It was MAGA Habs of the Garbage Times that lead the charge against Michelle Wolf.
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: I have to agree with our security expert Adam S, that RM is overrated.
rikyrah
Deplorable interrupts peaceful student protest . Throws hands and gets a beat down
https://twitter.com/EVRYBODYvsTRUMP/status/991345825153503233?s=19
OzarkHillbilly
@Peale: Biology. What is on the left is on the right.
germy
I fell asleep during “Civilizations” last night. Maybe I can keep awake for this.
Frankensteinbeck
@schrodingers_cat:
I like Maddow. I don’t consider her anywhere near perfect. She’s the last person I’d have expected to jump on the Everybody Hates Pelosi train, but MSNBC as a whole is on that train, and Maddow is eagerly stoking the boiler. My general point isn’t her, but that it’s the Narrative TV-watching liberals are inundated by. Like most Narratives, the press has to scrape and hunt for examples, but they do just that.
Manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: Maybe one of them can work with Pelosi. In general, I agree that we DESPERATELY need some new blood in leadership, but Nancy knows how to work the system and that only comes with experience. She can take it easy AFTER we get rid of Shit Midas.
Aleta
@Peale: : )
Manyakitty
@JPL: Isakson recently benefited from a favor from a Democratic friend. Maybe he can be the first Republican to get back to serving the country instead of the traitor.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: It was pretty boring. I am curious about #4. Then I think I will stop watching. They completely did not get the point and the symbolism of idols in Hindu worship. Also, they tried to conflate too many things across vast time periods to come up with some kind of a unifying thread and failed.
OzarkHillbilly
@Frankensteinbeck:
It won’t be unanimous because some have to take the political stance of voting for someone else so the voters back home will know whose side they are on. Pelosi being an adult, understands this and will hold no grudge against them. She will even give them slack to step out of line from time to time so they can demonstrate their “independence” as long as they are there when she needs them to be.
Manyakitty
@JPL: Go vote anyway. Sometimes they slip local issues on primary ballots.
JPL
@Manyakitty: I’m pretty familiar with the ballot. The 6th district has two good candidates and for me it’s a toss-up on who to vote for. The one that I lean towards moved to TX when he was fourteen from South Africa.
He owned a successful business and works closely with his synagogue to support refugee families. The ads write themselves.
The other was on the morning news so is known throughout the district. They are both stronger than Ossoff and either one will go after Handel’s support for the NRA and Trump. Then there are the two Staceys running for governor.
MomSense
@Frankensteinbeck:
I don’t think Maddow is immune to the pressure at MSNBC to go after Dems from the “left”. She’s good on some things but she is not good on the tactics of politics. I don’t think she has any campaign experience so I ignore her on a whole range of subjects. I also think she is overrated on security issues and I don’t watch her because I don’t like being treated like I can’t keep up. I don’t watch news much anyway except for Melber and Reid when I can.
Manyakitty
@JPL: Fair enough. Still can’t hurt to go give your candidate a vote. For my primary here in Ohio, I’m voting to the newer guy, who has great ideas about education and is already a state sentator–Joe Schiavoni. I will vote for the Democrat in the general (who I expect to be Cordray).
Which Stacey do you like? I follow Stacey Abrams on twitter and she comes across as VERY smart and focused.
O. Felix Culpa
@JPL:
Why would you skip the primary?
Elizabelle
I love Nancy Smash. She’s exceptional. Screw MSNBC, if they don’t get it.
@MomSense:
Yup. Limited doses.
sheila in nc
Early voting is also well advanced here in NC. I’ve volunteered and trained to be an election official for the first time. The training was fascinating, and I’ve learned a lot about election rules and NC election law. However, we don’t expect a huge number of voters in my county — in half the county, there is no ballot on the R side (no R’s running against each other) although I expect there will be an R in the general.
Also, being an election official is physically hard. As in, you have to be at your site before 6 am and you can’t leave — I mean cannot even exit the building temporarily — until it’s all over. Voting ends at 7:30, and then there is all the finalizing and packing up. I’m expecting an 18-hour day next Tuesday.
Ruckus
@Steve in the SFO:
No shrub, you would have had darth.
Would that have been better?
DesertFriar
“Moral Relativism???”
Ryan has been in the Congress (as one of the “young guns”) since 2015. Which party has been in control during that time?
Although, “Moral Relativists” is probably closer to the true than “Compassionate Conservatism”
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: @Elizabelle: Maddow’s show is not aimed at political obsessives like us jackals. Yeah, we know the background latest breaking news because we are weirdos. Not everyone is like that. The show is aimed at people like my mom, a nice, liberal retired teacher who does not spend hours on politics everyday but would like to keep up.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: She is a Pure.
JPL
@Manyakitty: Her voting record is not what one would expect from a progressive, and she approved the gerrymandering in 2015. She now is saying she was misled. She might be able to win though.
Kathleen
@Frankensteinbeck: I get feeling she has something personal regarding Dems in general.
gvg
@tobie: Maybe you should write them a detailed letter or two about why Peloisi is not out of step with her own district and why she still would be an excellent speaker. Maybe he needs to know votes like yours actually exist in his district.
LAO
So, Trump’s tweeting some ominous stuff about the Mueller investigation.
JPL
@LAO:
The question is when does he rid himself of this pesky investigation
LAO
@JPL:
Sooner I fear, rather than later.
Kathleen
@MomSense: I think she is ambitious and competitive (found her initial silence regarding Reid interesting) and is adept at reading tea leaves and being a “team player”. I’m not saying these behaviors are inherently “bad”. First and foremost she’s an employee and knows how to play the game. I don’t think anyone will “come after her” from left or right. My point is while she has done good reporting she’ll never speak to power like Reid does. And her anti Dem bias protects her.
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck:
I know pelosi is unpopular with Republicans. But there is no similar concern that Paul Ryan, or even more so, Mitch McConnell is unpopular with Democrats.
Likewise Ryan (or McConnell) is unpopular with many far right Republicans, but no one seems to go searching for them.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Frankensteinbeck:
Kill your TV
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@MomSense: If you don’t watch the news, how will you keep informed about THE NARRATIVE?
Brachiator
Pelosi is ancient and retire soon. No one should be a member of Congress after age 80.
But until then, right on Nancy Smash, if she wants to run for Speaker again. However, the Democrats need to cultivate younger leadership.
@catclub:
The Democrats should not give a shit what Republicans think about them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator:
Well, there is this approach.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
I thought that this was a self evident truth.
As is the axiom that Ross Douthat is an idiot.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fair enough.
Weird to see all the misguided YouTube comments insisting that Bernie Sanders is the new FDR.
SgrAstar
@debbie: Couldn’t agree with you more. Without a commitment to the common good, there’s nothing. GRRR.
Bonnie
Nancy Pelosi is older than I am. I am 72. She runs circles around me; and, I admire her for her energy. She does the Speaker job well. I have days when walking from my bedroom to the kitchen is so difficult. Yet, she got all the votes needed to pass Obamacare. The Repugs haven’t been able to get things passed as easily as Pelosi made it look. I agree about wanting to see some youth in the ranks of the Democrats; still, if Joe Biden were to run for President in 2020, I think he could win and I would vote for him. Also, I think this last election, despite all the Russian influence, America proved that it is still a sexist pig of a nation. You young women need to work very hard on changing that. Right now, I am too tired; and, I did do my part in my 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.