Another day, another pronouncement from the Senate’s leading drama queen:
After his abortion amendment did not win the day on the Senate floor, Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) did not come out swinging. Though he insisted that the failure of his abortion amendment “makes it harder to be supportive” of Senate health care bill, he did not reiterate his pledge to filibuster the bill.
“We’ll just have to see what develops,” Nelson told reporters. “I have no plan B.”
And no one else would have Plan B or any other control over their own reproductive system if you got your way, you showboating cretin. Does he even know what party he is in? Has he ever even looked at his party’s platform? Do he and Stupak honestly think that a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House and a Democratic President are going to reel in abortion rights? How stupid are these people?
El Cid
He’s doing whatever he can to try to injure the remaining health care reform process. The abortion thing was one tactic.
valdivia
best post title today!
This guys is an asshole. Nothing more.
asiangrrlMN
He’s doing it to demoralize the Dems, and it’s certainly working on me.
Like I said in an earlier thread, the party can’t be THAT big-tent.
Just Some Fuckhead
This is why they pay you the big bucks, John Cole. (If that’s really who you are.)
Was Ben Nelson this same anti-abortion crusader before health care reform? Because I sure as fuck don’t remember it, and I remember a whole lot of shit.
Comrade Dread
My position on abortion is opposite a lot of folks here, but if I had to guess, I would say he is:
a. screaming “LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!” to the media because he’s a drama queen.
b. raking in a lot of money from the health care industry and looking for some sort of excuse he can use to torpedo the bill while not looking like a money grubbing whore.
c. All of the above.
+3.5
DougJ
Well, you’ve out-show-tuned me today, John.
General Winfield Stuck
I don’t care what he does or even how he votes, so long as he doesn’t kill the bill with a filibuster. He could arrive on the senate floor dressed as Little Orphan Annie carrying a dead fetus, if he wants, and I bet he does, just don’t fucking filibuster.
d0n camillo
Very stupid. SATSQ.
dmsilev
@El Cid:
This.
I’m just surprised that Holy Joe Lieberman didn’t suddenly declare himself “pro-life” as well.
-dms
Miriam
I wouldn’t be so sure that we’ve heard the end of this abortion business on this bill. The anti-abortion people just never give up.
freelancer
“I have no plan B.” needs to be Nelson’s goddamned nickname. I’ve called his Omaha office twice this week to reiterate how stupid this shit is and to beg him to cut it out. The staffers say they’re getting a lot of calls from irate Omaha and Lincoln Dems.
(402) 391-3411
Fax: (402) 391-4725
demkat620
I think his toupee is on too tight.
Good lord he is dumb.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
Does he even know what party he is in?
Only come election time when his lawyers have to fill out the paperwork to get him reelected.
Has he ever even looked at his party’s platform?
Are you kidding?!? The dude is just like Baucus. They could care less about that. They chose to run as Democrats because that’s the way they could advance their political careers further the fastest. He only knows one party. The party of Corporate Whoredom.
Dreggas
i think there should be amendments restricting coverage of hair replacement/regrowth treatments as well as restricting coverage of male enhancement products/pills.
arguingwithsignposts
@d0n camillo:
I think that’s a rhetorical question, because there is no bottom.
danimal
He’s just today’s most visible part of the “I want to kill health care reform but don’t want to leave any fingerprints” contingent. They’re having a bit of a problem coalescing around a common excuse to torpedo the bill, likely because Reid/Obama are more than willing to compromise on almost any legitimate policy issue in order to win passage.
The Reid/Obama flexibility, while not terribly popular in this neck of the woods, is really causing them problems. Just look at the bs that Lieberman has had to come up with on the public option. These senators will keep playing whack-a-mole with fake, tangential controversies (like abortion) for as long as possible. They either want to kill the bill in sufficient numbers or at the least get lots of facetime on tv as kingmakers.
valdivia
@demkat620:
speaking of. can we ban toupees? they are stupid looking and obviously impede clear thinking.
Shawn in ShowMe
You mean his objection to Mortal Kombat fatalities doesn’t count?
Xanthippas
In the instant that it took me to finish that sentence, my brain already comprehended that John Cole would say something wonderful along these lines.
Heresiarch
I was going to answer “very very stupid,” but in a day and age when the government is nonfunctional and saying the stupidest bullshit you can think of earns you millions of dollars, Nelson does not qualify as stupid.
Blahblah
Rename the “Village” to the “Potemkin Village” and be done with it.
rob!
Ben Nelson, Burgermeister Meisterburger…separated at birth?
Guster
Someone talk me through reconciliation?
What’s the downside?
Dr. I. F. Stone
Almost certainly he will get his way since there will be NO healthcare bill without something that closely resembles the so-called Stupak Amendment from the passed House bill. Absent that language, no bill can attain the votes needed to end a filibuster.
d0n camillo
Do you know if anyone is taking any kind of steps to end this insane disfunctionality of the Senate? Between having a solid bloc of 40 Republicans who will oppose the Democrats on just about anything, the 5 Blue Dogs who love nothing better than to stick it to DFHs and the 60 vote cloture rule, it’s a wonder any halfway decent legislation makes it alive out of Congress.
Guster
@Dr. I. F. Stone: Barring reconciliation, right? Which we don’t wanna use, because … what? It takes a long time and is procedurally mess, unlike the current process?
Jorge
Does anyone else think that the health care bill compromise was finalized behind closed doors over a few kegs in February and the past ten months have been nothing but performance art?
Superman wears Obama underoos.
willf
Absent that language, no bill can attain the votes needed to end a filibuster.
Ahh, but that would mean Nelly-Belly and his anti-woman cronies would have to take on the onus of killing the bill themselves. Whereas, if the Stupak language had made it into the bill, the pro-choice pac would’ve killed HRC for him, and Nelly could’ve kept his hands clean.
Guster
@d0n camillo: I heard some DFHs ranting about changing the Senate rules so that a filibuster requires 55 instead of 60 (previously 67) votes. But that would cause hurt feelings, and is completely nuts.
MikeJ
On capitolist:
Joe Lieberman walks into a bar with a parrot on his shoulder. The bartender turns to him and says, “Sorry, we don’t serve bitter old egomaniacs here. And fuck your stupid parrot.”
Joe Lieberman walks into a second bar. The second bartender says, “Get out.” Joe Lieberman says, “Why? Can’t I buy a drink?” The second bartender says, “Don’t you get it? Everybody hates you.”
General Winfield Stuck
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
This will not kill HCR. Language that satisifies both sides can and will be worked out. The biggy that could kill the bill was the PO, the expanded medicare option being worked out now, could well make both sides in the dem caucus get on board, to get all 60 Senators to break the GOP Fili. Depends on the details per usual.
RareSanity
Nelson == Specter
All hat, no cattle.
I believe the correct spelling is showboatin’…Excellent line none the less!
aimai
Oh John Cole–damn you for getting to the joke ahead of every other person on the planet. [goes off and rewrites her post to include Plan B reference].
I’m not sure I think Nelson is going to “think of something else to derail health care.” Nelson doesn’t have to do anything except refuse to vote for cloture on the final bill going to the Senate floor, or on the conference markup. If its all about the Insurance Co money he’ll get his pay off. The stupid abortion amendment plus the threat he would filibuster was supposed to be a toxic, poison pill type amendment that would make *other* dems push back and refuse to vote for the bill. Nelson would have killed it without being the proximate cause of its death. Now the only threat he has to offer is that he will actually refuse to vote for cloture. The “I have no plan b” squawk was a cry of sheer hysteria–because apparently Nelson doesn’t want to have to be the lone democrat voting against cloture. If he didn’t mind doing it, he’d just do it. There’s nothing to be gained by posturing.
The correct analogy here is to the animal kingdom. Nelson and the other “centrist” assholes are madly signaling to each other, and putting up their ruffs and marking their territory to the other dems, trying to get the dems to back off or shut down health care reform, or the good bits of it. But just as in the animal kingdom if you don’t back down the other animal has to decide on either fight, or flight. Nelson was faking it–he’s going to choose flight.
aimai
Makewi
I see, so Nelson is trying to override Roe then? I thought he was just trying to prevent federal funding of abortions, but now I see it more clearly.
Thanks for showing me the error of my ways in language that is in no way overblown.
General Winfield Stuck
@aimai:
You know what. I agree with this analysis just about completely. And well written. Just hope it’s what happens.
jwb
@Makewi: I love it when you talk about pie.
arguingwithsignposts
@aimai:
I wish they’d just piss on the Senate floor and be done with the sideshow antics.
Guster
If nobody talks me through reconciliation, I’m going to shut this website down using only the force of my bruised ego and scabbed soul.
General Winfield Stuck
@Makewi:
Think of it this way. There will be private dollars mixed in with public dollars for folks who need subsidies. The Public dollars will have little Pink Unicorns on them and won’t be used to pay for abortions. Swear to gawd.
geg6
John Cole, that Plan B line is simply brilliant. I can’t even criticize that cretin Nelson because all I can do is sit here and admire it. THAT is why I come to BJ. That and pictures of Lily. Oh, okay, and Tunch, too (and I’d really kill for a foaming rabies ass photo–that would be awesome).
Notorious P.A.T.
Democratic leadership cave on something? Never! ! !
d0n camillo
@aimai:
Boy do I hope you’re right, Aimai. I know that HCR is being decided by a bunch of closed door conversations among senators and any public pronouncements are just part of the legislative Kabuki theater. I can’t say as I particularly like it, but I have to say that the fact that we are down to just one or two votes shy of cloture does look more encouraging. I just wish we didn’t have to dig for 60 votes for every damned pice of decent legislation.
arguingwithsignposts
@Guster:
Nobody walks you through reconciliation because nobody really knows. Plus, it would take a REALLY long time. only kangroX at GOS knows for sure about that Senatorial b.s. check congressmatters.com for the scoop on that.
jwb
@Guster: Wrong threat. Say you’ll make the edit function disappear again. That’ll get the response.
Backbencher
I think this ultimately gets back to a the fact the the Democrats in the Senate don’t act like a legislative body. Can anyone imagine Snow and Collins ever introducing a pro-choice amendment. They might have voted for the pro-choice position but the Republican leadership would never have stomached them grandstanding like the Democrats allow Nelson.
geg6
jwb@44: You just made me spit Pepsi on my Blackberry. Well done, sir.
Darkrose
@arguingwithsignposts:
And then when anyone complained, they’d argue that no one safeworded on public watersports.
jl
Reid should add an ammendment to tie the public option to expanding federal crop insurance coverage. Nelson would change his mind quick fast.
Anything other than cash money is just a distraction. It’s all kabuki with these miserable crooks.
Mal Carne
… and the public option is dead in the Senate.
link.
Guster
@jwb: Yeah, but I can’t touch the edit function. On the other hand, I’ve been watching the Senate so closely that I feel able to launch my own ego into space, to launch orbital attacks on earthbound civilians.
General Winfield Stuck
@Guster:
Well shit, Guster, don’t do that. I will try since you insist, but it is a clusterfuck that when applied to complex legislation becomes a triple clusterfuck. The way they would do it prolly, Is pass all the other reforms by regular order, and pass a public option by reconciliation. What it boils down to is leaving it up to the Parliamentarian as to whether the bill or sections of it are budget related, if they are, then by a maze of votes and objections and motions to table, various parts may be subject to a simple majority vote, or a 60 vote super majority, again depending on the whim of a non elected, but hired by dems Parliamentarian.
Then there is satisfying the Byrd Rule which is another clusterfuck that you can read about, and maybe be the first person on the planet to understand it.
The good news is that it potentially could result in a much stronger PO than is currently proposed. The bad news is, it could get so chopped up as to be non functionable.
Guster
@arguingwithsignposts: Thanks! Will check congressmatters and, if I get pissed enough, report back.
jwb
OT, so where’s the thread on Orrin Hatch’s “Eight Days of Hannukkah“?
arguingwithsignposts
@Guster:
You might start with this search: Reconciliation.
Guster
@arguingwithsignposts: Haven’t gone through all those yet, but just found this: congressmatters.com/storyonly/2009/11/25/1888/-Resurrecting-reconciliation
V. interesting. Not sure I entirely understand, but … it looks hella lot better than what we’re doing now.
geg6
GWS @51: Wouldn’t there also be the problem of things like this being done in reconciliation mean that they have an automatic sunset? Isn’t that why they are just letting the Bush tax cuts expire? Or am I wrong about that?
arguingwithsignposts
@Mal Carne:
Via Mal Carne’s link:
We. are. fucked.
Someone cheer me up here.
Guster
@General Winfield Stuck: Thanks! That looks like a great summary.
At this point, I’m not sure how the Parliamentarian could chop up the thing worse than our elected officials …
Of course, if reconciliation only applies to the public option, and the public option is off the table, that implies that we can pass all the other reforms by regular order–and I’m not sure why we’d assume that.
But I think that Congress Matters has a way around this, and I will not try to stuff that explanation into my head.
Guster
@General Winfield Stuck: Thanks! That looks like a great summary.
At this point, I’m not sure how the Parliamentarian could chop up the thing worse than our elected officials …
Of course, if reconciliation only applies to the public option, and the public option is off the table, that implies that we can pass all the other reforms by regular order–and I’m not sure why we’d assume that.
But I think that Congress Matters has a way around this, and I will not try to stuff that explanation into my head.
asiangrrlMN
@arguingwithsignposts: Um, yeah. I got nothing. Sorry.
valdivia
@arguingwithsignposts:
we knew from the beginnning that the PO would not pass, on the first pass, the Senate. When Reid included it a lot fo people were surprised, the question is what Reid got in exchange for it. Also–once they get out of conference, with the House and the WH having a hand at it, it will look different. The argument i have seen (see Booman) is that on the very last vote a lot of dem senators will not vote for a filibuster even if they vote against the bill int the end, precisely because it is the LAST vote. Again the argument was that the calculus on the last vote is very different from the first. The problem I think is that Reid jumped the gun and put it in now, so maybe that calculus does not work anymore. I am waiting for Ezra to tell me what this is. I trust him.
RareSanity
Santa Claus is comin’ to town?
If not that, there’s always liquor. Or, LSD, whatever floats your boat…
Martin
@arguingwithsignposts:
Public option isn’t really all that. Yeah, it’s good, but it’s not what’s important to solve now. If the Senate can actually contain costs with this bill, that’s a mountain of win, and allows for all kinds of other ways to expand coverage later – not the least of which is Medicare for all.
Guster
@arguingwithsignposts: I’ll try.
So as I understand this, reconciliation is fine for the public option, because the public option reduces the deficit, so doesn’t have trouble with the Byrd Rule. It’s stuff like preventing rescission that might get mucked up.
But preventing rescission and not excluding people for pre-existing conditions are hugely popular. So first you make Senators vote to waive the Byrd Rule for this vote: so you can include those hugely popular things. Then you pass the whole shebang?
But what I know about the political process …
aimai
But they can’t contain costs with this bill–and they are refusing to expand medicare and threatening to kill it (and social security) once this bill is passed–that’s the conrad destructo deficit offer– and they are passing mandates without the public option. I am really starting to worry that we are going to get a disasterous,craptacular bill not just out of the senate but also out of the conference and through the final vote. The basic fact of the matter is this–the dems have not found the spine, or the anger, or the tool to force the corporatist hacks to step aside this once. And the corporate interests served by the conservative dems and republicans will simply not let a good bill pass. Ergo, what passes, is really not going to be a good bill. Fucking Obama and Reid are too stupid to grasp this or they would have forced the destruction of the filibuster before they got started.
aimai
General Winfield Stuck
@geg6:
No. The sunsets were needed for Bush’s tax cuts to get around the Byrd Rule because they increased the deficit. The Welfare Reform Act of 1996 was done by reconciliation, one of the few policy uses of it. No sunsets with that as it met the Byrd Rule by lowering deficits. And if dems end up having to use it, can club wingnuts with you used it too, which is absolutely fair in my book.
Since the House has to initiate any legislation that changes tax rates, they constructed their bill to satisfy the Bird Rule, which is why all the Hullabolu about having to have it paid for with offsets to not increase the budget and actually lowering it some over ten years.
RedKitten
Will you be my imaginary husband?
Martin
But the public option has fuckall to do with containing costs. It’s solely there to expand coverage.
If anyone thinks that free-market, supply-side solutions are going to contain costs, I’ve got a Zombie Reagan to sell you.
The way you contain costs is through regulation – and that’s what the Senate bill is most focused on. The House bill is most focused on expanding coverage. They’re different problems.
jetan
I hate to say “I told you so”, but I did. The bill as currently constituted is a massive public subsidy for our friends in the insurance industry. The extent of the boondoggle actually makes it more likely that something will pass. I am starting to feel as though it might be better to pass nothing at all and wait for the public crisis to unfold. Maybe total fiscal Armageddon would force some responsible action.
I never thought we could pass a public option but this is still a bitter pill.
General Winfield Stuck
Here is the Wiki link that explains it.
And the bill being paid for also satisfies the Paygo rules of the Senate.
valdivia
from what I just read the details of the bill are not being disclosed because they are waiting fro the CBO. Again, I think we need to see what the Bill looks like before getting upset. Ezra actually said this week that the PO in this bill was so meager that this new deal would do more than the actual PO so I am taking a wait and see attitude.
kay
@aimai:
aimai, Medicare costs too much. It’s a single payer program and costs are exploding.
Medicare has no health care cost constraints, other than reimbursement rates for providers. That can’t continue.
Public option advocates never addressed that, because it brings up scary questions about how we spend health care dollars.
Subtract the insurance company profit. Subtract the inefficient billing by private insurers.
The cost of health care is still to high.
kay
@Martin:
Agreed, and thanks for saying it so well, Martin.
arguingwithsignposts
I need an open thread. And some tunch. And some bob mould.
Every song he sings seems to be about the conservadems.
SiubhanDuinne
@RedKitten: as usual I’m going wa-a-a-a-ay O/T, but I just looked at the new (today) pictures of Sam, and, you know, SQUEEEE!!
The one called “Sam’s hand is always in his mouth”? That may be true of his left hand, but it looks as though his right hand is amusing his junk.
Also, the other two pix, where he’s kind of on his elbows: he really looks as though he’s working on that upper-body strength to heave himself up. And once that happens, look out! He’ll be creeping around everywhere before you know it.
He is such a gorgepus child. I continue in my state of besottedness.
General Winfield Stuck
@valdivia:
I really think the PO may be dead. They are huddled together, a gang of ten, and this time mostly liberal senators to work out a PO of sorts with expanding Medicare, hopefully to low income for now, and later for anyone who wants it, and the best way to actually lower the entire cost curve over time.
From what I can understand, there are a lot of obstacles to over come on how to structure it, but the good news is, people like Nelson, and the other bd’s, are warmer to that idea than a PO. Though it doesn’t mean they will vote for it, but maybe, maybe won’t filibuster it.
Punchy
Pubic opshun gone. With health insurance rates essploding, we gunna be fizz’ucked.
SiubhanDuinne
@RedKitten: Damn, no edit on BB. Of course that’s *gorgeous* not *gorgepus*!
kay
@Martin:
The federal employee pool is huge. I want to see what they do with that aspect.
If they use the whole existing pool, with the newly enrolled added to the whole to negotiate rates and offer that rate to individuals that could be a good aspect.
That’s an existing exchange that works, and it’s big enough, and diverse enough, in both plans offered and currently enrolled.
SiubhanDuinne
@arguingwithsignposts
I too would like an open thread.
And some Tunch. Also.
valdivia
@General Winfield Stuck:
that could very well be, again I just don’t think anyone knows where we are. Also–this just confirms for me that when a lot of progressives cheered Reid for putting the PO in the bill a lot of people did not understand how likely or not it was that it would pass and/or how he intended to use the PO as leverage.
General Winfield Stuck
@kay:
this is why it has to be made available to anyone. The same was with the PO’s on the table, being only for low income for now. That won’t lower costs either. The question is will the public be willing to make that leap with a known and trusted program like medicare, rather than the faux tarred PO they don’t get and tend to believe wingnuts. Fooling fools sometimes is what works in politics, the RW showed us that.
I am likely being some Pollyanish in hoping this will fly, but so far BD’s seem to be interested, at least. Maybe they will feel safer politically with the Medicare logo on reform.
Brick Oven Bill
Rahm’s brother is right. The best way to limit public health care costs is to let old people, who can’t afford or don’t choose to pay for their own life extensions, die.
Justice Ginsberg, from New York City, is also right. Abortion kills off mostly low-IQ embryos, and is not necessarily a bad thing for society. Senator Nelson has spent too much time in Nebraska.
It is not Rational for the Democratic Party to support abortion. Low-IQ voters consistently vote Democrat.
General Winfield Stuck
@valdivia:
You’re right, everything is up in the air right now. But at least we have some interesting possibilities to wank about.
MikeJ
@General Winfield Stuck: You’re
blahblahblah
I feel so much better about voting Nader in 2000 now….
latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcnow/2009/12/senators-strike-tentative-deal-to-drop-public-option-for-heal…
I give up on the Democratic Party. It’s time for National Strikes.
kay
@valdivia:
The best way to save Medicare is to get rid of Medicare Advantage.
IMO, they put the cost-curve bending on the Senate side, because no one wants to talk about limiting health care costs, and they successfully avoided having that discussion, by shunting it off to Reid and Baucus.
We were busy talking about the public option on the left, and death panels on the right, and in the senate, they were actually addressing lowering health care costs, in the few ways that are politically feasible.
That has to happen. This is a start.
valdivia
@General Winfield Stuck:
heh. I agree. Lots to think about I am just going to wait on the freaking out bit. :-)
General Winfield Stuck
@MikeJ:
Gracias amigo, saw it but forgot edit works. It’s my hillbilly English lessons I blame.
Irony Abounds
What has become clear is that the public option has become the litmus test for liberals in deciding whether or not health care legislation is good or bad, and I’m not sure that isn’t self defeating. I don’t believe that the public option was the centerpiece on proposed legislation from previous years, or in the candidates’ plans. It is only this year that suddenly it is the holy grail.
I’m interested in seeing what passes. It is most important that whatever is passed doesn’t screw things up in the next few years, otherwise whatever is done will mean Republican governance for the next 20 years (God help us all). On the other hand, if what passes is popular, it will only lead to bigger and better reforms.
Andre
@SiubhanDuinne:
I like “gorgepus”. It sounds kind of like lolspeak!
valdivia
@kay:
I agree. Also–kind of genius that now that the Reps spent MONTHS screaming about Medicare and saving it, the whole bill will look like an expansion of the thing the reps have been defending. Talk about pinning them in a corner eh? Not that they won’t contradict themselves of course.
Sly
@General Winfield Stuck
The PO might be scrapped in favor of allowing people into the Federal Employee Benefits Program, which includes a number of non-profit options. If it is the same program, then it likely won’t be shitty. If its a separate program, though administered by the same agency, then I wouldn’t be surprised if it included nothing but a bunch of Voluntary Benefits Plans*.
People like Nelson, Conrad, and Baucus will only be supportive of a Medicare buy-in if it also includes a revamp of the reimbursement formulary (so their states get more money) or an across the board increase in reimbursement rates (which would really fit in with their Fiscal Responsibility personae, dontchaknow). Medicare rates are a pretty huge deal for pols from rural areas, because those populations tend to be older. Older populations means more Medicare recipients. More Medicare recipients means less money for doctors and hospitals. And if you want to be cynical, less money for doctors and hospitals means less PAC money from “Health Professionals”.
*Voluntary Benefits Plans are voluntary in the sense that if you require medical care and can’t afford the $10K deductible, or whatever other rate the bloodsucking zombie vultures set it to, you voluntarily elect not to take the benefits. Or in the same sense that you voluntarily give up the use of your kneecaps if you can’t pay off the vig to a mafia loanshark.
Midnight Marauder
To echo the sentiment of others, I think the fact that the PO even made it this far in the Senate bill is a pretty miraculous
accomplishmentthing. But let’s be honest here: it was Dreaming The Impossible Dream to think that a PO would get through this Senate at all, let alone at first blush.For me, the focus turns first (and obviously) to the devil in the details of whatever this new Senate
compromiseshit sandwichthing is exactly. And more importantly, I think the biggest thing to keep an eye on from here on out is the ever-looming brouhaha of whether HCR even makes it to conference, or if the House has to (once again) accept “This is the best we could do; take it or leave it” from the Senate. This time, the damage will be exponentially worse, with a White House that just seems to be chomping at the bits (on certain days, at least) to be able to call something a win.And with that said, it is now time to really start drinking. Because, honestly…what the fuck else am I gonna do on a day like today?
Excuse me.
+3
Edit: Well, at least this still makes me happy.
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
Because people will get better life-long health care and so cost less to the single payer when they are old?
Except we spend huge amounts of Medicare funds on the last year of life.
You saw the reaction to the mild suggestion that maybe we might want to not test for breast cancer every year past 40. We’re not ready to talk about cost, and effectiveness, and outcomes.
SiubhanDuinne
@Andre
LOL. (Testing): oh hai, I can haz gorgepus Samkitteh?
Wurkz!
Ian
@Makewi:
Your mistaken. He want’s all insurance companies to stop covering abortions, which means that only the wealthy can have them.
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
I’m going, but I have completely enjoyed reading your health care comments, and you are an absolute rock on this.
You never once got rattled, through all these ups and downs, and even when I tried to set you spinning :)
General Winfield Stuck
@Sly:
You are correct about rural pols fighting for higher medicare reimbursement rates in the presence of a medicare by-in, that will surely slow down lowering costs all around. And will fight tooth and nail for higher reimbursement rates. But would you rather have that, that is controllable, at least, or what we have now which is private insurance companies raising costs to the stars because they can?
The Republic of Stupidity
Nor apparently a meaningful Plan A either…
General Winfield Stuck
@kay:
Not for good I hope. And thanks.:-)
Though being a rock that hopes to not get rolled in the end.
Martin
@kay:
The federal employee plan is very expensive. Like with Medicare, they’ve never gotten very far with leveraging the size of the program to curtail costs. Yeah, there are some efficiencies due to size, but there’s no thumb on the scale.
The program really isn’t as big as it might seem. Remember that those million+ plan members are spread out over all 50 states, so in any given market it’s not a big plan.
And OT: Gotta give credit to the pray-the-gay-away guy for going on Maddow – that took stones. And I loved how Rachel went after him. That was full of win.
RedKitten
Gorgepus indeed. :) And yeah, I didn’t notice, but he DOES look like he’s hanging on to his junk in that photo. My inlaws got us a Canon Rebel for xmas, so I was playing with it today, trying out different apertures ‘n’ stuff. Sam was a captive subject.
Sly
@General Winfield Stuck
A) I’m psychic.
It be a fucking disaster, not that Conrad gives a shit.
B) A Medicare buy-in would be limited to those who are too poor or too sick for the market run by those bloodsucking zombie vultures I mentioned, so it would actually reduce the viability of the program. The only benefit of such a modification would be that 55 year olds who lost their jobs won’t have to deal with denials for pre-existing conditions. But the legislation already makes that illegal, so that’s not really pertinent for this.
It should, in all honest, be a buy-in for everyone so you don’t destroy the risk pool. But that’s just a public option by other means.
ksmiami
As much as I would love a public option, I can live with Medicare for more and more people as an intermediary fix. It will be pretty simplified and in all fairness, the other nations that have UH are much smaller in population and even England’s health services started during WWII because private industry could not do it and then once the war ended people were happy to keep with the govt plan, or if you were wealthy, you bought more… There is no magic cure, but I think in the US, starting with expanded medicare makes sense in an Occam’s razor, simpleton way. Also, I think it will shut a lot of the lunacy on the Right down when you say, did you hear, Medicare is covering more people?… eek socialism, fascism, – oh I kind of like Medicare myself, never mind, where is the BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!???
The Republic of Stupidity
@kay
I don’t think it’s totally valid to compare the two like that.
One is a relatively inexpensive test meant to keep a younger person healthy. The other is a situation where we can end up spending astronomical sums of money to keep someone who will not recover alive for a few more months.
One is a wise investment in the health of the country.
The other… we need to rethink.
General Winfield Stuck
@Sly:
We can all pay the piper now with either single payer, or a gradual single payer by-in available for everyone, whatever the vehicle (medicare for all, or a PO available for all) or pay when the whole thing we have now collapses under the weight of greed.
The Republic of Stupidity
Which is DEFINITELY on its way…
(the collapsing from greed thingy…)
Mayken
@arguingwithsignposts: No THAT would be must-see TV!
bcinaz
I don’t know, how long is a piece of string?
Betsy
This?
was the best thing I’ve read all week.
Betsy
@RedKitten:
The two shots before that one are perfect. Really really lovely. Good light, great baby. :)
Comrade Mary
TPM offers this lowdown on the deal from an unamed aide.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I recently had to go to the local doc to get my neck looked at because of a minor accident involving a son learning his way around the garage. I have had three operations on my neck, two were fusions and one for a titanium plate and screws, so when I screw up I go see the doc right away. Nothing wrong, just pulled muscles (and plenty at that), but what was interesting was that the front desk of the clinic told me that if the incident involved a car then they needed the insurance policy for it so they can bill them first.
W.T.F?! They thought the new rule was stupid and suggested that I just say I injured myself while moving something in the garage, which is what happened but it involved a heavy part for a car that is being repaired thus not MOVING. It sounds like it is another tactic the health care insurance industry is using to delay payment as I was told that the auto insurance industry pretty much tells the doc’s office to get lost.
I had an accident at home and our health insurance is responsible for our coverage, not our auto insurance. They are doing everything they can to screw us one way or another and it just don’t stop.
Holly McLachlan
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
I want to see what the “new and strengthened” insurance regulations are going to be (as per TPM). It’s possible to have an effective, highly regulated, but private system. The Dutch and the Swiss have done it. But, only, only if the companies are regulated into submission.
kay
@The Republic of Stupidity:
The suggestion on breast x ray was science and data based, though. The reaction to the suggestion was purely political.
You can’t just make an assertion that yearly testing after 40 is vital to prevention or public health. Where is that coming from?
That’s what’s in dispute. Is it good preventative care? Reacting as you did is exactly what I’m talking about.
They have data that women at high risk might be harmed by yearly exposure to x ray. Harmed. Why not look at that?
Adrienne
@Guster: Dude, chill. I give you the Wiki entry.
I vote for using reconciliation to get a better bill. I really don’t care if it means we have to wait an extra month or whatever to get a bill. Fuck decorum, and double fuck the centrists with a rusty screwdriver. And while we are at it, put in everything – the public option, Medicare buy in at 55, all of it, and then ping pong it over to Pelosi and the house Dems. I’m really sick of these “showboatin cretins” having veto power over everything after I worked my ass off to elect Obama. They managed to simultaneously make the bill less effective yet more expensive. If the fuckers want to kill the bill, let them do it out in the open; by getting 51 no votes in the Senate and 218 (219?) no votes in the House.
You KNOW if the Republicans were running the show, and they had a piece of legislation that could make or break the party they’d ram this shit down our throats or maybe they wouldn’t even have to because they always managed to find some chickenshit conservadems willing to go along with their fuckery. Either way, they’d get it done. If there is ONE thing I respect about the GOP it is that. When they win elections, they actually get shit passed. It might be bills I loathe, but they get it passed. We have SIXTY dems in the Senate and can’t pass any bills that clearly represent our platform. WTF?
//rant over.