We have a few announcements related to the book club, but first i want to share our thank you note to Adam Schiff, which I shared with his chief of staff via text last night.
Hopefully our word play will help convey to both Adam Schiff and Patrick what a wonderful experience this was for us!
Okay, back to business.
Adam Schiff will be joining our book club one more time – next week on Feb 2 at 8pm.
I should note that there will be no inadvertent ambushing of John Cole as we welcome Adam Schiff next week!
Audio and video of the time with Congressman Schiff will be posted on Balloon Juice.
A few of our awesome folks who live-blogged the Adam Schiff portion last week have volunteered to do it again next week. If you were one of the live bloggers, please chime in below and confirm that you are up for a repeat performance next Wednesday.
Except for the live-blogging of Adam Schiff, which we clearly plan to do again, trying to have the book club thread going at the same time as the book club zoom wasn’t a rousing success. I suggest that we plan on having a couple of Balloon Juice thread-based book club meetings after the zoom book club ends on Feb 9. Thoughts on that?
The theme of last night’s zoom was: What Didn’t You Know Before You Read the Book? What Surprised You?
We all shared our thoughts on that, of course, but the conversation shifted in some ways to a more general political discussion – which I think speaks to the desire to be able to have a conversation about these things with other people who share our understanding of the gravity of the situation – because some of our family and friends do not seem to understand how precarious things are right now.
If there is interest in that, we can definitely hold some “political” zooms where we can let the political conversation go wherever it takes us. Chime in below if you would be interested in something like that, or send me an email message if you prefer.
In the meantime, though, the book club discussion last night – while interesting – was more wide-ranging than I was comfortable with, so we plan to hold more closely to the themes in the final two book club zooms. Of course we’ll want to gab for a bit after Adam Schiff leaves the meeting next week, but I am asking Curt (facilitating on 2/2) and Subaru Diane (facilitating on 2/9) to hold us more closely to the topic of each meeting.
The above paragraphs are peppered with requests for feedback, so I hope you will share your thoughts in the comments.
Update: I will put up a thread this weekend talk about the book in general and the theme from last night: What Didn’t You Know Before You Read the Book? What Surprised You? If there is a preference for day and time, chime in below.
WereBear
WaterGirl, I love the thank you note. Pitch perfect!
Yarrow
Are these not going to be live-blogged unless Adam Schiff attends?
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: They definitely can be live-blogged.
Last week, we just had them live blog the Adam Schiff portion, but if there is interest and if the live-bloggers are game, I am happy to have them live blog the whole thing.
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Was there a thread for the book club? I didn’t see one.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: The thread for the first book club meeting was such a bust that it didn’t seem like a great idea. I got the sense that it really requires one person to be in the thread, focused on the thread, helping to move the conversation along.
Or – as you suggested at #2 – live blogging.
I can definitely put up a BJ post this weekend that combines the first two themes, which were basically “let’s talk about the book in general” and “what didn’t you know before you read the book, what surprised you?”
Scamp Dog
I plan on doing the live blogging again.
Scout211
@Yarrow:
I didn’t see one last night, either. It does say on the side bar that it was scheduled for 1/26 but I never found one last night. Did we need an invitation?
ETA: answered by WaterGirl @ #5
WaterGirl
@Scamp Dog: Yay!
Are you up for live-blogging the whole thing? Or just the Adam Schiff portion?
WereBear
We can also discuss the book here, and since I missed the discussion last night, I wouldn’t mind :)
WaterGirl
@WereBear: oh, you mean in this thread? Duh, I hadn’t thought of that!
WaterGirl
@Scout211: @Yarrow: @WereBear:
What do you think of WereBear’s idea to talk about the themes of the first two meetings here in this thread?
I went ahead and added this up top:
Ohio Mom
Thank you, live bloggers for reupping!
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Yes, someone needs to post in the thread what is being discussed in the zoom book club meeting. Without that it’s an aimless thread where people don’t know what to talk about.
Without any kind of thread for the book club it’s just a collection of people meeting on zoom to discuss the book but not really a Balloon Juice book club because it’s not featured on the blog. Not everyone can be at the zoom so having a thread offers another option and allows people to catch up if they missed it. Up to you how you want to run the blog, of course.
Scout211
It might be better to announce here for a weekend discussion. More people could join in on the weekend and also more people could plan for it with advance notice.
Just not on PLAYOFF SUNDAY!! Go Niners!
But discussing here would be fine, too. :)
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Well, this is the first time we’ve tried a zoom & thread book club, and it turns out there is a bit of a learning curve!
I wanted it to be both thread and zoom, but the first thread didn’t get much play. So I figured an adjustment was in order.
The first zoom was great, I thought maybe live-blogging would be interesting, so we tried that. Success #2. The BJ book club thread definitely needed some adjustments.
I had hoped to line up someone to help facilitate the thread but it was a busy week and that didn’t get done. So I thought maybe doing them not at the same time would be fine, and that way we could have someone to help facilitate the thread.
As you may have seen, I threw out a bunch of different ideas up top, hoping to get some feedback.
Yarrow
@Scout211: Agree with this.
Scout211
I just want to say that I was having a hard time reading the book because it triggered so many dreadful memories. I was thrilled with the live-blogging and replay of the zoom, though.
In the meantime, my “normie” husband picked up the the book and has been devouring it. He rarely pays attention to the news these days so it has been an eye-opener for him. He’s more than half-way through the book and has developed a huge amount of respect for Adam Schiff.
So pass the book on to your “normie” friends and family members. They really, really could use the education.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Okay, I updated the update to say that there will be a thread over the weekend, asking for suggestions on day and time.
opiejeanne
I’m a quarter of the way through Schiff’s book, and the thing that has surprised me most is his seeming naïveté about his Republican colleagues, not that he’s naive at all. I think he knew how bad most of them were but kept that knowledge tucked away in the back of his mind, until witnessing McCarthy just make shit up and admit it to him, and watching the Republicans in Congress apparently lose their minds, starting in 2015.
tl;dr: he sensed or knew the truth about them intellectually before then, but not physically. The gut-punch that occurred after Trump’s first impeachment trial.
Does that make sense?
WaterGirl
@Scout211: What time are the playoffs on Sunday?
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Google that exact phrase in your comment and the answer will come right up.
SiubhanDuinne
Are you ever in luck! I just happen to be a mob enforcer in my spare time.
opiejeanne
@Scout211: I’m having that same problem, that we already lived this and watched it unfolding live on tv, and the book brings that horror to the forefront.
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
AFC Championship: 3 ET, 12 PT
NFC Championship: 6:30 ET, 3:30 PT
According to ESPN
WaterGirl
@opiejeanne: I think reading parts of the book was hard for a number of people. Similar to what you are getting at, someone – maybe Athenaze – wondered on the first zoom – and I am going to word this badly compared to what she said – if perhaps that was an author’s tool for bringing the reader along emotionally.
(Someone else who was there, or maybe Athenaze, please come to the rescue and explain it better than I did.)
narya
Okay, I’m officially confused: If I click through to the book club feature, with the list of meetings, it has Schiff joining us at the FIFTH meeting, but next week will be the FOURTH meeting. Are we reversing the topics for the fourth & fifth? That’s fine w/me, but I wanted to be sure I understand.
Also HUGE thank you to WaterGirl for moderating last night! I appreciate the effort to have folks raise their hands, giving space to as many people as possible!!
Finally, one of the things that worked best w/ Schiff, IMHO, is having the folks who are going to ask questions identified ahead of time. I thought that really kept the convo moving without stalling or sidetracking too much.
Did I mention thank you to watergirl for all of the work on this??!!
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Thank you! Not really being a sports person, I wouldn’t have even know what kind of championship to look for, let alone know that there were two.
So Sunday between the two games, or is Saturday better because of the games on Sunday?
WereBear
I think so. It’s what hit us all over the last ten years or so… we were blasted past our preconceptions about the ranty family member. There’s been a trail of broken relationships as we went through the same thing Congressman Schiff did
The difference between knowing and believing.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
Probably Saturday as there will likely be 30 minutes or less between games.
WaterGirl
@narya:
Themes were set and publicized before we knew that Adam Schiff was going to be joining us, and when they told us which dates Adam Schiff could attend, and which two themes he was most interested in… I immediately said that we would discuss his preferred themes on the nights he could attend.
Yes, I wrote this to our resident Mob Enforcer yesterday, but it’s worth copying here.
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
There is no “between games” on playoff Sunday. Saturday would be much better, IMO. Or if you prefer Sunday, schedule it before the games start.
MomSense
I actually liked the simultaneous live blogging. The feedback seemed to be positive about it
WaterGirl
@narya: Oh yes, Curt and I are doing the same kind of planning for the second visit on Feb 2 that we did for the first visit on Jan 19. :-)
A Good Woman
@WaterGirl:
Hi – yes I will live blog on the 2nd and I am willing to take a stab at live-blogging post-Schiff.
Baud
@MomSense:
It was great.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: @Baud: I agree. I think everyone LOVED the live-blogging of Adam Schiff.
The question I am wondering about is whether people would want to see live-blogging of the discussion when Adam Schiff is not there.
WaterGirl
@A Good Woman: That’s two:
Scamp Dog
A Good Woman
bemused senior
I looked for info about the zoom meeting yesterday and couldn’t find it, plus no email with a link. Also no thread with yesterday’s logistics. Could you please be consistent and update the book club link on the front page? I am sorry to have missed the discussion.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Honestly, I’d probably read some of it, but in general I doubt people would find it as interesting. I guess if someone wants to volunteer to do it, great, but I wouldn’t use excessive means to draft anyone.
WaterGirl
@bemused senior: I am sorry to hear that.
All zoom people were sent an email message. Please check for an email message from me with this title, sent at 2:42 central time.
zoom link and information for tonight’s book club (set A)
You were in the same group (set A) along with MomSense and Brant, and they were both there last night, so I know the message went through.
Can you check to see if it might have gone into your spam folder, or you might have missed the message somehow?
The address I have for you has msbit in it, in case you have multiple accounts. I would like to figure out what happened so it doesn’t happen again!
WaterGirl
@bemused senior: I’m sorry you missed the discussion, too.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by updating the book club link on the front page.
WaterGirl
@Baud: That was my thought, too, which is why I didn’t ask anyone to live blog last night, but it sounded like a couple of people might be interested, so I’m putting the idea out there for feedback.
Sure Lurkalot
@MomSense: Along with Baud, me three. I thought the simultaneity was a good not bad thing.
WaterGirl
@Sure Lurkalot: It’s a given that there will be live-blogging for the Schiff portion. The question is whether there should be live blogging of the conversations when Schiff is not there.
Almost Retired
Love the word cloud (both the concept and the execution)!
Athenaze
@WaterGirl: That’s more or less what I said. One of the narratives of the book is his continuing surprise at the Republicans’ behavior. This could very well be genuine, and he provides reasons to think it is. At the same time, it is also most definitely a narrative strategy. He could have presented the narrative in other ways, like, for example, “Republicans are bad, and we started seeing signs early.” Instead, he took a different approach that speaks to naive reader to create a sense of disappointment/distress/shock, to bring them on his intellectual journey to come to the conclusion he has, that most of the Republicans will do anything to keep power and don’t care about anything else.
WaterGirl
@Athenaze: Thank you! I knew I couldn’t do your comment justice, but I am relieved that I was in the neighborhood of the ballpark!
Nancy
I want to live blog again.
WaterGirl
@Nancy: That’s three! thank you
Scamp Dog
A Good Woman
Nancy
narya
@WaterGirl: Ah! Thank you! I mean, yes, I click on the site multiple times a day, and often read at least some of the comment thread . . . but I still miss stuff.
I want to add that I was a little skeptical about the book club (because of ME, not you all!), and I’ve really enjoyed it a lot. I think the attempt to have themes–rather than, say, chunks of chapters–has made it even more successful. Even when we strayed last night, for example, it wasn’t all THAT far from the topic.
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl: I love the live-blogging, and was hoping that last night’s Zoom would be live-blogged, because I’ve had to miss the Zooms and threads so far and it made me feel more connected to the goings-on.
(Although I am planning to offload my radio recording next Wednesday night to catch Adam Schiff in real time. )
Nelle
I, too, at first thought, why would I want to read it after living it? But the narrative pulled it all in one place and gave it a coherence that I hadn’t realized that I wanted, after the jerk and pull of following along daily. Plus, the perspective of a participant in the events was valuable.
Miss Bianca
@opiejeanne: I was struck by the same observation – wondering if he really was, or became, progressively disillusioned with his GOP colleagues, or was always clear-eyed about what monsters they were but is playing the “more in sorrow than in anger” part for a more normie audience.
@Athenaze: Or, you know, what you said.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I think it’s not a good idea.
As for making the discussion narrower — I don’t mind the wider-ranging discussion, frankly. It reminds me of teaching — when the students want to discuss something that isn’t exactly what I had planned, I usually let them run with it at least for a while. Otherwise people get depressed when you keep trying to herd them back. It isn’t the kind of book you can really do a literary analysis of. It is about our political situation, so that’s what people seem to want to talk about.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Re-mounting hobby horse Number 3: on Schiff’s (Obama’s, Biden’s) alleged naiveté: Republicans have been repeatedly surprised at the success of the even nuttier right and the passivity of the lumpenmittel.
John Boehner declared after the 2012 election that Obamacare was the “law of the land” and Republicans had to deal with it. The Tea Party/Freedom Caucus goons made him hold performative repeal votes until he eventually zippity-doo-dah’d himself out of office.
Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham and probably others thought McConnell’s stunt on Garland would blow back on Republicans; barely a year later we got “don’t try to blackmail me about the Supreme Court!”
Republicans thought the Access Hollywood tape was the final nail in the coffin of what they (including trump) already thought was trump’s doomed presidential campaign
Go back and watch McConnell and McCarthy and Graham and however many other Rs speaking on the night of 1/6 or after trump’s impeachment. They not only thought trump was done, but that they had to cut him loose to survive as a party. Four months later, McConnell felt confident he could whip his caucus against a 1/6 investigation and it wouldn’t hurt his chances of retaking the Senate majority.
Coming back to the topic: Listening to Schiff narrate the events of the first impeachment (and the 2020 campaign) it’s just amazing how bombs kept dropping during the trial and nothing moved Republicans, except Romney
ETA: in real time, by the time he made the announcement, Romney vote to convict was perhaps the biggest surprise. Murkowski, Collins et al voting against witnesses and ultimately to acquit was more of the half-numb on-going feeling of shocking-but-not-surprising that defined the trump era.
WaterGirl
I just heard back from Patrick in response to our thank you:
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Interesting comment on the discussion.
I felt a little uncomfortable in parts when we drifted into talking about other things, like Hillary’s emails – two words that I hope to never hear again – because i felt people were there to talk about the book.
But this isn’t my book club, it’s our book club. My goal is to make it a positive and worthwhile experience, so I am happy to hear feedback from all directions, and we can go from there.
CaseyL
I missed last night’s Book Club – had just come off another Zoom meeting and, unfortunately, simply forgot in my rush to get some dinner.
Sounds like it was a little too “wide-ranging” for my tastes, though. People do have hobby horses, and while there’s nothing wrong with that, I’d prefer not to see discussions get derailed by that.
The GOP has been subsumed, not only by once-ordinary politicians who’ve embraced The Crazy (e.g., Stefanik), but also by politicians who’ve been elected for no other reason than to enact The Crazy (e.g., MTG, Gaetz, Cawthorne). They are not legislators; they’re bomb-throwing grifters running individual personality cult/rackets. That is an unsustainable position for a legislative body. It’s also an unsustainable position for a country…
gvg
@WaterGirl: I don’t like zoom and don’t plan on attending any of them. I only wanted threads like we have done for prior discussions. I read the thread for the zoom with Adam but didn’t contribute anything. I enjoyed reading the comments. I guess there is no way for you to know unless I tell you.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gvg: that’s where I am. No Zoom.
One area where I did wonder about Schiff’s credulity was the “heads on pikes” thing, when Murkowski and Collins (and maybe others) pretended to be offended at Schiff’s suggestion that GOP Senators were afraid of trump. He seemed to take their offense as being sincere and in good faith. Senate-brain is a peculiar condition, and I’m sure on some level they were in a state of medium dudgeon, but those two in particular were still worried about a trump-wing primary challenge.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Great! You did a wonderful job with it.
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl: btw, super nice design on the word cloud!
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: I know what you mean. It may be an impossible task to keep 30+ people on point in a Zoom.
Sure Lurkalot
@WaterGirl: If there are volunteers to live blog and some interested in reading a Zoom sans Schiff thread about his book, I say go for it!
zhena gogolia
@Sure Lurkalot: I think the Zoom discussion is too scattershot to liveblog. It was different with Schiff, with well-defined, pre-planned questions and cogent answers — more of a dialogue (with each questioner in turn) than a 35-alogue.
WaterGirl
One more update from Patrick:
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia:
I think you’re right about that. We could make audio of the zooms available – separate from the part where Adam is participating. I don’t know if audio would appeal to folks who are more written-word people and don’t care for zooms.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Hahaha
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: I think live-blogging the Zoom conversations would be like having a separate thread in which someone had to live-blog a BJ thread, you know what I mean? Very meta.
Lyrebird
@MomSense: BTW you and other question askers seemed so professional when you did so!
Lyrebird
@WaterGirl: Hi WG! The word cloud is gorgeous!
I am game to live-blog on the 2nd, got it on my calendar.
I can only do the portion with the Representative due to child care conflicts after that.
zhena gogolia
@Lyrebird: Yes, they did!
NotMax
Hm. February 2nd.
Depends on whether or not I see my shadow that day.
;)
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl: That was my favorite part!
WaterGirl
@Lyrebird: Yay!
That makes 4!
Scamp Dog
A Good Woman
Nancy
Lyrebird
I think we’ll stick to live-blogging the 30-40 minutes with Adam Schiff and then make the zoom audio available for anyone who wants to listen.
Live-blogging is pretty intensive, and doing it for 90 minutes would be a long time.
WaterGirl
@Miss Bianca: Well, so many of us said it that I thought it belonged in there. :-)
Glad he got a kick out of that.
WaterGirl
@Lyrebird: Yes, I think we were all in awe of the questioners!
WaterGirl
@gvg: I think we can still have that – BJ threads for the discussions. I think it was just unrealistic of me to think that we could do them at the same time as the zoom.
Live and learn, as they say.
karen marie
I haven’t looked at John Cole’s youtube (is there a separate BJ youtube account?) so I don’t know if these zoom meetings are being posted but if it’s possible and they’re not already posted, I would ask that they be posted. I don’t use zoom but I would love to be able to listen to the conversation. I really enjoyed Doug’s interview with John and hope there will be more.
Scout211
@karen marie:
Click on the link for the the book club in the side bar under the “Featuring” category.
WaterGirl
@karen marie: As Scout211 says, click on the link under Featuring.
That has all the Adam Schiff book club posts. One of the most recent has video of the 40 minutes with Adam Schiff. The one before that has audio of that 40 minutes.
We aren’t doing video of the rest, but we can do audio and those can be listened to straight from a BJ post.
WaterGirl
@karen marie: Yes, there is talk of DougJ doing more interviews.
eddie blake
@WaterGirl: yeah, but hillary’s emails were a topic in the book. several pages were devoted to the hack as part of the larger discussion of the russian investigation.
i would be interested in doing regular zoomings
eta- you’re doing a yoeman’s work. totally kickass. thank you.