Happy Redacted Affidavit Day! I’ll post a link to the doc online when I find one. Here’s an excerpt from WaPo’s breaking news page on the event:
A redacted version of the affidavit supporting the request to search former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club was released in a federal courthouse in Florida, potentially shedding new light on the high-profile investigation into the possible mishandling of classified documents…
The affidavit likely contains key information about the investigation into classified documents that were kept at Mar-a-Lago after Trump left office, including why FBI agents suspect crimes may have been committed. On Aug. 8, FBI agents searched the estate in Palm Beach and carted away about 20 boxes from a bedroom, office and a first-floor storage room. Authorities have said some of the seized documents included highly classified national secrets.
The warrant authorizing the search said agents were seeking all “physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of three potential crimes,” including a part of the Espionage Act outlawing gathering, transmitting, or losing national defense information. The warrant also cites destruction of records and concealment or mutilation of government material.
According to CNN, the documents included sensitive material on the country’s human intelligence assets. Big if true! The person on camera waving the print-out around showed off some pages that were basically all blacked out. The intel analysts on CNN seem horrified by the descriptions of the documents, for what it’s worth.
Open thread.
UPDATE: Read the document at the NPR site here.
Elizabelle
“Hereafter, FPOTUS.”
Take that, loser.
Baud
Several links in the prior thread.
ETA
storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.102.1.pdf
Elizabelle
germy shoemangler
Elizabelle
germy shoemangler
Chief Oshkosh
Yes, but is this the long-form affidavit?
Elizabelle
Patricia Kayden
I’ll send him comic books for his lengthy prison term.
MattF
Apparently, according to a CNN(!) report, Trump’s view that the documents belonged to him came from Tom Fitton, head of Judicial Watch and not a lawyer.
Emma from Miami
Every bleeding time the Trump team asks for something, they dig his grave deeper. Handwritten notes?!
Scout211
Here is a .pdf version.
germy shoemangler
LAO
Not for nothing but I beg anyone who becomes the focus of the DOJ — get a competent defense attorney. Unbelievable how poor the lawyering has been in this matter.
Scout211
As I posted downstairs, I love that Trump is called FPOTUS, or EFF POTUS (the way I read it).
Baud
@Scout211:
I expect that hashtag will be trending.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I see the confidential docs were mixed in with other papers, not in folders, just tossed in.
zhena gogolia
Another fun Friday.
geg6
@LAO:
When you pick your lawyers based on how much they look like a FOX News morning anchor, you get that you deserve.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
zhena gogolia
@geg6: inorite? They’re all that type.
And grateful as I am to Cassidy Hutchinson and Sarah Matthews, they’re the type as well. Not their fault, they also seem to be intelligent and competent. But very young to be working at the highest levels of the White House.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Not to mention, there’s something called a “taint team.”
Scout211
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
That’s the team I would assign for Trump’s office too.
Old School
Shouldn’t Bill Barr get to release a summary a few weeks before this comes out?
eversor
So it looks like he had the following, quick descriptions for those who havent’ had to deal with all this
HCS – human intel related documents to protect identities
ORCON – controled by originating office
NOFORN – no foriegners can see it
SI – technical intelligence gathering stuff that would contain the abilities
FISA – FISA court stuff
Add in we know about the nuclear stuff and he grab bagged a lot of stuff
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
HumboldtBlue
This fuck had source information.
And as a side note, seeing the tweets from people who used to have large student loan debts posting that their balance is no $0 is fucking heart warming and gives one chicken skin.
PaulWartenberg
does this affidavit imply the likelihood that trump is hoarding EVEN MORE documents at Mar-A-Lago than already recovered in the warrant???
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
They wanted to retrieve the stuff he ate?
Ken
Oh please let a few of those be “Think this is what Putin wanted, check with Jared”, or “Need this for the 2 billion from the Saudis”.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I find that kind of interesting. Speculation, jackals?
@zhena gogolia: I contend the correct pronunciation of FPOTUS involves spitting as you say “FP”.
Gravenstone
@MattF: I suggested elsewhere that Fitton was just the scapegoat du jour being blamed for Trump’s own actions. But I’ll accept him as co-conspirator just as readily.
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
I know the words and terms in all caps are just meant as stand-in names where there say “X, hereinafter Y”…but I also like how sometimes it seems to be expressing outrage. FIFTEEN BOXES, MOTHERFUCKER???
Or else that they’re imitating Trump’s tweets.
eversor
@HumboldtBlue:
Who knew you could steal the NOC list by walking out of it. Tom Cruise feeling stupid right now.
LAO
Anyone know how fox news is spinning this? I see that rump has responded on truth social.
LAO
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: It’s standard language in an SW affidavit. If you don’t think that you are going to find the fruits of the criminal conduct, there’s no reason to search a premise.
germy shoemangler
@LAO:
They’re talking about the water usage of liberal celebrities.
HumboldtBlue
@eversor:
lol
Also, #MAGAmeltdown is trending as Dark Brandon continues to kick sand in their faces, steal their girl, steal their other girl and eat their lunch.
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
@LAO: I’d bet they’re either going to ignore it entirely in favor of talking about how Biden is giving everyone a free abortion along with their student debt cancellation, or else be sneery and snide about it being a nothingburger because every other president in history* has done the same thing.
*which translates to “no other president in history” in Normal Person English
LAO
@germy shoemangler: of course they are. Thanks for checking.
germy shoemangler
@LAO:
link:
dm
@zhena gogolia: That’s a team to make sure the government’s case isn’t “tainted” by accidentally seeing client/lawyer confidential information, though given the subject of this investigation, more lurid interpretations are natural.
Gravenstone
@LAO: I’m hoping that “Truth” gets vaporized soon. Seems they’ve been stiffing their provider to the tune of $1.5M+. Be a shame if they suddenly went dark just as FPOTUS felt the need to vent.
rikyrah
Dolt45 had the MUTHAPHUCKIN’ NOC LIST????!!!
Eljai
Betty Cracker
@MattF: Tom Fitton, lol! It would be such delicious irony if Trump ends up convicted of crimes because he was dumb enough to listen to that motherfucker.
I remain skeptical that Trump will be charged with crimes. My guess is the DOJ will justify the Disgraceland search by saying it was necessary to recover sensitive documents to end potential exposure risk and so the intel agencies can address any damage that resulted from Trump’s irresponsible and criminal behavior.
But who knows? Not me!
Dangerman
@Eljai: FTMFFPOTUS?
syphonblue
WHY WOULD HE WANT THIS RELEASED
Jfc he is the biggest idiot in the history of the goddamn world
germy shoemangler
MattF
OT. Martha Wells just finished another Murderbot novella! Yay!
Scout211
Interesting. Kash Patel’s name was not redacted. LOL
Alison Rose 💙🌻💛
@MattF: YESSSSSS
Marmot
So hear me out. All the clamor from news orgs about the public’s right to know, following bountiful speculation about what TFG had been hiding — do they actually have any point?
With the redacted affidavit, aren’t news orgs just getting a new springboard for a new round of breathless speculation, with Trump getting additional chances to muddy the waters?
Is any public good served by it?
I’ve mostly stopped keeping up with the day-to-day ups and downs of legal and judicial proceedings until they hit some sort of endpoint. I can’t tolerate all the speculation about “what this might mean” each time there’s some incremental development.
Chief Oshkosh
It is worth reading the affidavit, including Exhibits and other appendices, IMO. Just based on what the FBI stated in the affidavit as, essentially, background support for a further search, it’s so very clear that Trump broke the law egregiously and obviously. At some point they need to quit treating him and his drooling team of legal beagles with deference or any sort of privilege. He’s a thief who stole items that affect national security. AFAIC, he should be charged as such immediately and held as a flight risk.
oatler
Centuries from now a new Shakespeare will write a play about this current palace dramedy. How would T be portrayed, given centuries of hindsight?
Ken
@germy shoemangler: That’s a classic that showed up a few years ago. The usual form was:
CBS News: Today’s TFG horror
MSNBC: Today’s TFG horror
CNN: Today’s TFG horror
Washington Post: Today’s TFG horror
Fox: Ten new recipes for your summer picnic
Recipe Channel: Today’s TFG horror
Chief Oshkosh
@Scout211: I saw that, too. I wonder if this is a way to put the squeeze on him? I’m not sure what he has to offer, though. The guy is a total head case, too unreliable for much of anything.
HumboldtBlue
How the hell is Andrea Mitchell’s walking corpse still on TV?
MisterForkbeard
Hoooly crap. This is really bad.
Human signals intelligence, foreign intercepts, protecting many civilian witnesses. And all kept in an unsecured room in the basement of a fucking crappy international hotel for over a year.
misterpuff
@oatler:
King Leer
LAO
@syphonblue: What I meant by bad lawyering is this. All that Rump and his minions care about is the next news cycle. There is no one thinking long term, end run. It is absolutely ridiculous. I’m sure that nobody in Rump world wanted this released and shockingly, the DOJ called their bluff. Horrible, no good, terrible lawyering.
eversor
@syphonblue:
Probably for the names of agents and then to grift off it.
LAO
@MisterForkbeard: It is truly shocking.
oatler
@Ken:
Both sides are culpable, as Chuck Todd will observe.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@syphonblue: I think Trump was focused on finding out who his “enemies” were and getting revenge. There wasn’t room in his head for anything else.
Prometheus Shrugged
@oatler: The portrayal will no doubt be inspired by archived footage of Jamie Foxx
Almost Retired
@misterpuff: Failstaff?
MisterForkbeard
@syphonblue: He didn’t want this released. That’s why they never technically asked for it in court.
He knew that this stuff is almost never released and thought it was safe to whine about it publicly in order to work the media and whip up his base. But it was serious and bad enough that this limited thing WAS released, and now Trump is fucking rabid on social media right now.
Soprano2
@syphonblue: He thought he was going to get the names of the people who helped the DOJ so he could sic his flying monkeys on them.
HumboldtBlue
@Ken:
Hahahahahaha
@MisterForkbeard:
It was released because news orgs sued to have it released.
Chief Oshkosh
@Marmot: Of course there’s no public good in releasing the affidavit. There’s nothing in it that is actually actionable by John Q. Public. All that’s going to happen now is that the howler monkeys will demand that the redacted lines be revealed.
ETA: The affidavit is interesting (to me, anyway) to show the process. Maybe there is some public good in that?
Further ETA: I take it all back. Apparently there is a lot of public good, but not in the way of really providing new information. However, it does seem to be driving F-Troop Potus crazy, so maybe he’ll make even more mistakes.
eversor
Also keep in mind he keeps refering to all this as “my documents” and asking to get them back.
MisterForkbeard
@MattF: YES. I’ve been waiting for these, they’re one of my favorite series.
If you haven’t, listen to the audiobooks. They’re exceptional and make the books even better.
germy shoemangler
@HumboldtBlue:
Mrs. Greenspan will outlive us all. Like Kissinger and Dick Cheney.
MattF
@syphonblue: On the assumption that he won’t be indicted, there’s $$$$ to be made.
phdesmond
i would suggest that Semi-fascist is all right as a term. besides, how does one spell “fashoid” — fascioid? without a silent “i” to guide one, one might want to pronounce the word “fascoid” with a hard “c” sound.
LAO
@Betty Cracker: I’m not sure whether I agree or disagree with your skepticism. However, the fact that the DOJ redacted the warrant application so heavily to protect potential witness and sources of information has somewhat shifted me into — the DOJ might actually indict the fucker. And the more he howls in public and lies about facts that the DOJ can prove are lies — the more likely he’s to be indicted.
...now I try to be amused
I prefer XPOTUS, but I’ll take F.
SiubhanDuinne
@MisterForkbeard:
NYT Pitchbot: Opinion | The progressive case for burning human intelligence sources
More NYTPitchbot: We wanted to understand the impact of revealing the identities of human intelligence sources. So we talked to three Trump supporters at an Arby’s in Harrisburg.
MisterForkbeard
@oatler: It takes two to Tango – one person to commit treason, the other to investigate and prosecute. So you can see that this is really the Democrats fault.
rikyrah
On some level, any true thinking person knew this…
But, now, to KNOW THIS….
As a Patriot….
It’s devastating. It just is.
The former President of the United States is a muthaphuckin’ TRAITOR.
eclare
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Agreed. That is the only thing he “thinks” about: who has been disloyal to me and how do I get them back?
NeenerNeener
@MattF: Woo hoo! I love Murderbot.
ALurkSupreme
@misterpuff: Titus Moronicus
HumboldtBlue
@rikyrah:
I thought we had agreed on this back in 2016. He’s been owned by the Russians for years.
Trump is in panic mode.
And he has good reason to panic.
hilts
Given that Trump’s bowels are in an uproar, Melania needs to stock up on diapers.
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: I was thinking we were leaning towards indictments but I wasn’t sure. These docs show some really dangerous stuff, and Trump knowingly kept it in an incredibly insecure location with lots of foreign agents, endangered witnesses and FBI agents who reported him and investigated him… I don’t see how they let this go.
I don’t think he goes to jail, though. House arrest (not in M-A-L) and being heavily restricted in internet, tv, and other items is probably as far as it goes.
Scout211
And the more that his “legal advisors” howl in public the more likely it will make them into witnesses for the prosecution. Like Patel, who clearly acknowledged that Trump had the documents at MAL, but tried to spin that they were declassified. By defending him (in the court of social media), he made himself into a witness to the crime.
Sheesh. I can’t believe Trump’s advisors think they can “win” this in the court of social media.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
In other legal news, did his crack legal team have their hearing about the “special master” yet?
Edit: It seems they have until close of business today. So I guess not.
geg6
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I tend to agree. Maybe others in his orbit had other nefarious plans, but his were purely about massaging his id’s revenge fantasies.
Ken
@SiubhanDuinne: One change:
eclare
@Ken: Perfect.
Spanky
@MisterForkbeard:
Safe to assume the info in said documents did not remain in said crappy international hotel. And that some in the FPOTUS’ circle made some real money off that info. As always. follow the money.
moops
Talk about failing to win the news cycle. This is all bad. A drop like this just before a weekend. It will be the talk show topic for everyone.
eversor
@Scout211:
It’s not a bad tactic. Get his base up enough to freak people out that there will be wide spread violence through the nation much worse than Jan 6 and we will be back to “forward, not backward” and some mundane statement of what happened along with “safe gaurds are now put in place” will happen and the powers that be will move on.
I don’t think people are prepared for wide spread low level violence for years. We are in a civil war, but people don’t want to process that. They think that’s only true if it goes fully hot, but wars happen by other means as well.
I say jail his ass and I’m not afraid of his chud supporters it’s not just conservatives that own weapons and are vets. Charge him, jail him, and let the troubles begin.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard: long and winding road between indictment and sentencing
moops
I suspect that the CIA got wind of leaked intel that could have only originated with the White House.
Have foreign agents been seen visiting Mar-A-Lago? I bet SS spotted several suspects in the last year.
germy shoemangler
The GOP is a big tent. Just ask Inna Yashchyshyn.
dm
@LAO: This affidavit was released because of a FOIA request by the media. Trump’s legal team was present in the courtroom, but chose not to comment.
The “release the affadavit” stuff was noise on social media to keep the donations grift going, and probably was in hopes of intimidating witnesses who might fear their identities could be deduced from the info in the affadavit, (or future affadavits) but wasn’t actually a legal strategy.
Spanky
“Fruits of crime”, motherfuckers! “Fruits of crime”!
No way that at least one Trump gets indicted. Probably more (even though their name might be “Kushner”.)
StringOnAStick
@syphonblue: Why would be want it released? Remember, he’s a malignant narcissist; the malignant part adds sociopathy, paranoia and sadism to the diagnosis, and that means he will never stop trying to ram home the reality he believes. He believes he did nothing wrong, so of course releasing the affidavit would show that because that’s the reality he believes. It’s not an act to keep us guessing or the 11D chess some of his fans claim, it’s just pure raging Id.
What has left us as a country standing slack jawed in shock time after time about his actions is as normies, we just don’t get how his entire world view, manner of existence, everything about him is just so incompatible with our understanding of reality and how we expect people to behave. If you’ve ever been personally involved with a narcissist, then you know how their behaviour leaves you constantly off balance because it doesn’t follow the norms as you understand them, and they exploit that to get what they want.
HumboldtBlue
@germy shoemangler:
I believe Netflix has a series out about her.
germy shoemangler
@HumboldtBlue:
I had no idea. This is the first I’ve ever heard about her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Maybe?
ETA: All roads lead back to Russia with you! –Nancy Pelosi
Wyatt Salamanca
@Betty Cracker:
Trump would have been better off if he’d taken legal advice from Bob Odenkirk.
oatler
@misterpuff:
“And I counsel thee to seize them by the queynte.”
Spanky
@hilts: Melania isn’t within 1000 miles of FPOTUS if she’s halfway smart.
Ah! Hmmm …
Scout211
FPOTUS responds.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy shoemangler: Oh my god
Origuy
Anyone have a contact for Wes Anderson? I have an idea for a sequel to The Grand Budapest Hotel called The President’s Spy Hotel.
LAO
@dm: In my experience had the Trump team objected (which they could not credibly do because Trump was screaming for the release of the affidavit on social media) — the FOIA request would have been denied. It’s pretty standard — the unindicted target of a SW has a right to privacy (unlike us women folk) and that is how it should be, Ordinarily, if the target is then indicted, the affidavit is released. Not to be too much of a defense attorney, but the affidavit is just a bunch of unproven allegations at this point. That doesn’t mean it’s not accurate just that the standard is “more likely than not” (probable cause) not “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Arm The Homeless
It brings me very little joy that we’ll probably never know what Fat Donny did with those secrets — or who he showed them to — but he and the doughy fascists that are trying to destroy my country need to be burned to the ground like a bed bug-infested Golden Corral
Ken
And if he were actually capable of thinking, he’d realize that the one thing certain to be redacted from this affidavit was the names of all sources of information.
I haven’t looked at the PDF, but I’d expect they’d even redact the “hereinafter known as” names of the sources, lest someone be able to guess the identity of “NOUNVERB91-1” and “FAILSON-2”.
Skepticat
@misterpuff:
Bravo, Misterpuff. That wins the thread.
eversor
@Arm The Homeless:
We will never know any of that for national security reasons.
Van Buren
@MisterForkbeard: I just want someone to ask that asswipe congressman who said that Trump took them for his memoirs if it is OK to put HUMINT info in said memoirs.
Haydnseek
@moops: Foreign agents? I don’t doubt it for a moment. Remember his inauguration? More Russians there than the Kremlin subway stop during rush hour……..
Booger
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: They don’t really want one; it’s just an exercise in master baiting.
eversor
@Ken:
He’s going to raise money off this. And if he gets charged there are going to be more “Jericho” marches by the Christian Nationalists and mass prayers to take down the government, the stupid militias will assault more buildings, and there will be more random low level attacks by lone wolfs on all sorts of things.
Trump’s ace in the hole is that most liberals recoil at violence or at least dislike it while his followers valorize it. Plus institutions dislike like it. And that avoidance of violence is his ace in the hole which means he can profit off this stuff as a grift and not fear consequences.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Who knows? there are a of stones that got flipped because Cassidy Hutchinson hadn’t developed a personal relationship with Liz Cheny and switched lawyers, and nobody outside of Meadows office had heard of her, before we all did
Arm The Homeless
@eversor: I mean ‘we’ in the sense of the intelligence services.
This info was out in the wild far too long and there were far too many people that knew where it was to keep any semblance of chain of custody.
StringOnAStick
Sometimes I think wistfully how much further along we could be in dealing with climate change if we hadn’t lost 4 years to this prick. I also suspect that if Hillary had been even a one term President, Putin would not have been so sure he could invade Ukraine. So many lives lost so the plutocrats could stay in power, so much damage to maintaining a habitable planet thanks to all these R assholes and their current chief asshole.
JeffH
@phdesmond: Now that is a joke with a very, very limited audience. I laughed though.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ken:
I wouldn’t presume to correct DougJ.
eversor
@Arm The Homeless:
Remember when Saudi rounded up all those people all of a sudden and started lopping heads off in March? “We” can trace what’s known when people get sloppy and act on it. Which is a huge reason part of western doctrine is often not acting on things so we can sit back and observe more. The Saudis and Russians often just act. There’s a whole method of knowning what someone knows by what they do or do not do.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Susan Collins et al deciding to acquit trump in the first impeachment also sent a message that a good chunk of the US gov’t was not overly concerned with Ukrainian sovereignty. trump may well not have been the only president to learn his lesson, as she put it at the time
Ken
@SiubhanDuinne: Oh, that was the real Pitchbot? There are several commenters here who make up their own.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@syphonblue: The heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots. As it were.
eversor
@StringOnAStick:
The plutocrats did not want Trump. Trump cleaned up among the religious right specifically for social issues relating to Christianizing the US and also picked up the anti immigration vote. After he smashed the primary based off borders and bibles then the plutocrats got behind him.
sdhays
@HumboldtBlue: I clicked through and I still love how helpful he is when he refers to himself as “your favorite President” while also adding on “me”, just so that there’s no confusion (which is useful, because MY favorite President has never been raided by the FBI).
Sure, you could call it hamfisted brainwashing, but it really comes off as just sad.
Origuy
West Virginia cops shot and killed a guy at his father’s funeral while he was hugging his sister.
Jim Appleton
@StringOnAStick: When I was about seven, I had vivid thoughts about experiencing the end of the world, which involved physical annihilation by graphic but unknown means. Part of being a Cold War baby, perhaps.
Now, in my sixties, it looks more and more like the world as we know it (descendants of cockroaches may one day colonize Mars) IS coming to an end, though likely not in my lifetime, by means which could have been prevented, and which are sadly punctuated by the fascist dick hogging the news this beautiful day.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ken:
Both of those are DougJ, yes. Sorry, I guess I didn’t make that clear.
Betty Cracker
@StringOnAStick: Well said. Trump is a walking collection of untreated personality disorders. Even after six goddamn years of watching his antics, normal people search in vain for a framework in which the behavior makes sense. It doesn’t. It never did. It never will.
OverTwistWillie
>Homer Simpson<
Mmmmmm….. crime fruit…
/Homer
Scout211
@Ken: Both Mary Trump and Michael Cohen pointed a finger at Jared Kushner but he emphatically denies it! Categorically!
Link
OverTwistWillie
@Scout211:
But my poll numbers…
misterpuff
@oatler:
To quote noted scribe, actor and groundling-pleaser Melvin Kaminsky Brooks: “It’s good to be King” or Celebrity. “They let you do it.”
Paul in KY
@MisterForkbeard: You just know any competent foreign intelligence service got them. Jeezus…
geg6
@Scout211:
Too bad there isn’t video. I would like to see if plastic sweats.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It occurred to me this morning; The way they talk about Trump having advisors (what ex president has a staff of advisors?) I bet you Trump LARPS having daily staff briefings were his advisors were waving around these documents , someone outside Trump’s presidential RPG group saw this, freaked and went to the FBI.
MisterForkbeard
@Scout211: I mean, I would definitely believe that Jared wouldn’t alert the authorities when he finds stolen top-secret and humint documents, yeah. Seems legit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So it was Ivanka?
geg6
@Paul in KY:
I don’t even think it would have taken a competent intelligence service. It could be the most bumbling idiots to ever become spies and they could have gotten anything they wanted.
Ken
@eversor: In one of Charles Stross’s Laundry novels, a person giving testimony is given limited permission to refuse to answer a question if the material is classified. He responds, “I assume that is so that the record of this testimony doesn’t become impossible for anyone to read.”
Likewise, I’m wondering just what procedure the DOJ had to follow to determine what was in those boxes, given the classification levels. “This one’s ORCON, please contact POTUS to see if he has a few minutes to look at it and tell us the originator….”
Paul in KY
@ALurkSupreme: Haha!!! Good one!
rikyrah
@eversor:
no longer. I think we are fine dealing with the violence of his supporters
rikyrah
@Origuy:
Why were police AT A FUNERAL?
Ken
@geg6: I remain amused* by the early tweet that “All documents have been recovered except a few which we think were taken by someone from the Rosenkranz bat mitzvah.”
* For values of “amused” that include “horrified” and “angry”.
Paul in KY
@eversor: Think he should be in supermax (for his own protection, of course) while he completes his sentence for treason.
eversor
@Ken:
I have no idea. But I can sort of imagine after opening those boxes the FBI agents minds breaking at how to go about all this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Remember the poster we had who was always making noise like he and his muscular liberal friends were prepping to go full Red Dawn in the mountains of Colorado, and if us dumb doughy sheep had half a brain between us we’d be signing up for training before trump’s border patrol came to drag us off, and then he slipped and posted some rant about how the city was taking too long to fix the sewer in front of his house?
HumboldtBlue
@rikyrah:
They knew the target of the warrant would be there. It’s common. Birthday parties, family gatherings are regularly targeted by police when searching for someone.
germy shoemangler
@Haydnseek:
CaseyL
The GOP’s refusal to convict Trump in either of his impeachments trials looks even worse in retrospect – and it looked absolutely awful at the time. The GOP is an accomplice, or at least an accessory, to whatever almost-treason charges the DOJ can bring against XPOTUS.
Lyrebird
@PaulWartenberg: No, this is the justification offered to obtain the warrent. Warrant.
Danielx
@LAO:
Amazing how it becomes hard to retain competent counsel when you have a well earned rep for lying to, not listening to and not paying former counsel.
I imagine a well earned rep for being an all round unpleasant asshole doesn’t help either.
Marmot
@Chief Oshkosh: Thanks. I need other perspectives because I’m always like, “OMG they want more fodder for freaking out about, because freaking out is their actual occupation.”
They = both the MAGA crowd and the news orgs.
If it leads to MAGA making mistakes that actually have some sort of impact (rather than, “Chuck, this sure looks bad for TFG”), then great!
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
You couldn’t have expected actual, reasonable thought about stealing classified documents, could you? Of SFB?
He took what was in the office at the last possible moment available to put it into boxes, and with the least possible thought, concern, rational, understanding, propriety, organization…..
SiubhanDuinne
@germy shoemangler:
Seems to me there were an awful lot of sketchy unauthorised people found on the MAL grounds both during and since TFG’s time in office. There was the Chinese woman — I think she might have been armed, might have had several phones or thumb drives on her — and the teenager who came through the “secret” tunnel, and now this Russian woman? And god only knows how many others who simply haven’t been reported.
Paul in KY
@Jim Appleton: Oh, we’ll keep muddling on. Might look like Idiotocracy one day, though.
Spanky
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, she seems to have a better sense of self preservation than her dimwit brothers or half-wit hubby.
phdesmond
@JeffH: :-)
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
Isn’t SFB all ass(hole)?
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: AGTM. Called us all cowards because we weren’t sharpening deer antlers for the coming fight.
On topic: I didn’t see any real surprises here. A lot of the language that sounds impressive is just boilerplate search warrant language.
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: happens all the time. A funeral for a family member of someone with warrants is one of the few likely places they’ll show up.
Now, explaining why they shot the guy while he was embracing another family member (she’s incredibly lucky she wasn’t killed or even injured) is going to be difficult, to put it mildly.
Paul in KY
@geg6: Boy, now I feel better…
Would not bet against what you said. As a former USAF guy who dealt with Top Secret crypto stuff, it boggles the mind that this stuff could have been carted out & then kept with the christmas decorations down in the basement.
different-church-lady
Gotta remember that the whole reason Hillary couldn’t be president was because she didn’t know how to handle classified document correctly.
PDXBob
@PaulWartenberg:
Got to remember the timeline. NARA asked about stuff, TFG sent 15 boxes. NARA looks it over and thinks, there’s got to be more, and asks again. TFG and his attorneys send back letter that says, Nope, nothing else here.
TFG and lawyers saying nothing left is the obstruction. So, the warrant is stating they believe they were lied to about there being nothing at Mar-a-Lago. Since they pulled more boxes with confidential documents, I’d say they were right, they were obstructed.
Lyrebird
So sickening. I am usually not cheerleading for intelligence agencies, always cheering for oversight, transparency. But we know how much the Trumps and Kushners care about anyone else. Ask Widow Khashoggi. Ask the Kurds. Source information, that can mean people dead poof gone. As bad as bonesaw thing. Monsters.
FBI offircers are definitely on the list of
People I am Not Usually Shedding Tears For
but that is frickin’ sick.
eversor
@Paul in KY:
Some people leave out a Christmas list for Santa some people leave out a NOC list for MBS.
different-church-lady
@Ruckus: Yeah, that’s a plausible explanation for why he took them.
There simply is no innocent explanation for why he wouldn’t give them back.
Ken
That’s a given, but he would have done that whether or not this was released. It’s not like he’s bound by reality — look at the quote Scout211 posted, where he’s pivoted in one day from demanding the release to whining about “leaks”.
I’ve heard that email scammers deliberately use misspelling and bad grammar as a way of selecting people who are more likely to fall for their pitch. I don’t think TFG does that deliberately, but the constant changing of his story must have much the same effect.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think the information about different classifications at issue is new.
different-church-lady
Between this and the PPP loans, it’s just Flaming Hypocrisy Week for the GOP, and the building is “fully involved.”
MattF
@different-church-lady: The explanation is ‘Because they’re mine’.
HumboldtBlue
The judge in Atlanta’s fake elector case has no patience for these assholes who are arguing that DA Willis should be disqualified from investigating them.
AM in NC
@misterpuff: Perfection.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: New, perhaps. Surprising, no.
Edmund Dantes
@Baud: yes. We now know that the prior stuff returned included the specific list of different levels and types. Before it was all sources from newspapers. Here we have the actual list (at least headers) for Human intel, original control, signals intelligence, etc.
Bupalos
@zhena gogolia: Personally I’d give him an F-minus. But I guess with grade inflation and all, FPOTUS is to be expected.
Jeffro
I know the explanations have been all over the map from trump world – “what docs? the docs were planted! wait, he was using them to write his memoirs! wait wait wait” – but has anyone in the media asked
THOSE don’t go into anyone’s freaking ‘memoirs’.
And while they’re at it, if/when it’s discovered that he was selling these secrets…why? I thought the guy was worth a bajillion dollars? Huge sacrifice to have to serve as president and give up all that income and everything? He shouldn’t have even needed the money, right?
The Lodger
@germy shoemangler: I thought so too. Turns out Netflix Anna was Anna Delvey, aka Anna Sorokin, who impersonated a German heiress and lived a high-expense lifestyle on the Upper West Side for about a year, charming dozens of NYC socialites who should have known better. This lady seems to be someone else who was good enough for a while at seeming to be someone else.
topclimber
@oatler: Trumpeo and Trumpiet, a tale of a star-crossed lover.
Lulymay
@zhena gogolia: Trump liked them young. Didn’t you notice how quickly he dropped the first wife when the cameras started to show that she was “maturing”? Although I presume that he always believed that “money can always buy me love” or some sort of interpretation that he found useful to defend his antics.
The second fled right to the coast of California with new baby as soon as she figured out what he was about.
The third was and still is in it for the money – totally a kindred spirit.
geg6
@HumboldtBlue:
I would love to read that, but…paywalled.
The Lodger
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe there will be a second TV series called “Inventing Some Other Anna.”
germy shoemangler
@SiubhanDuinne:
I thought she was from Ukraine.
HumboldtBlue
@geg6:
I’m sorry, I hit no paywall.
Here’s the text:
eversor
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah but now explaining all the various, HCS, SI, NOFORN, FISA, ORCON stuff over the weekend to those who don’t know it on the TV shows will create more fun.
Also stuff on the video feed of moving stuff into different containers, there was a safe, but other stuff was in the basement, a container on the floor of his closet, and a dressing room in the bridal suite.
It’s not surprising, but it is new and juicy.
locanicole
@Dangerman: FTMFFTPOTUS?
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: I assume that Garland will do what he’s said all along – follow the evidence and enforce the idea that [blink]nobody[/blink] is above the law.
Everyone knows that TFG and his minions broke all kinds of laws. We’re just waiting for Justice to dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s before starting their righteous grinding…
It won’t be easy, but they’ve got decades of experience dealing with mobsters and their ways so I think they know how to get this right.
My $0.02. We’ll see!
Cheers,
Scott.
Paul in KY
@HumboldtBlue: Well, some of them could have been Fascists or Nazis or Royalists or Klingons…not Republicans!!
SiubhanDuinne
@Paul in KY:
Melania’s christmas decorations!!
Mimi
@LAO: Of course it’s bad lawyering. If he wants a real lawyer he’d have to pay them.
zhena gogolia
@HumboldtBlue: He’s decided that “nuclear!” is the new “collusion!”
phdesmond
HumboldtBlue
@Paul in KY:
You can see the look of sheer “what the fuck” on the judge’s face just by reading his words. Too funny.
Omnes Omnibus
@eversor: I used the word surprising intentionally.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
I don’t think Trump sold them. He took them because they made him feel like he’s still president. He’ll show them off for free to anybody he thinks they’ll impress. Now, Jared may have slipped in a few very, very sensitive documents to give to his good buddy MBS who put him in charge of that $2,000,000,000 fund.
PaulWartenberg
Dante: “trump had 184 CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS!!!”
Randal: “In a row?”
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott: Yep, we’ll see. Personally, I’m fine with it if the entire thing was about retrieving sensitive documents before they fell into the wrong hands and/or mitigating the damage if they already have. The FBI busted into Trump’s tacky dump and took the papers back. That sends a “no one is above the law” message all by itself, IMO.
PaulWartenberg
trump had possession of the fcking NOC List.
Tom Cruise went through ALL that effort back in 1996 to steal the NOC list from the CIA vault, and trump… just tweeted it out.
Another Scott
@LAO: +1
He’s pathological. He thinks he can intimidate the United States Government as an ex-president.
If he were smart, he would have retired to Xanadu, written his memoirs, painted bad pictures of bathtubs, gone on speaking tours,
builtput his name on tacky hotels in Mongolia, and kept his head down.“I’m here living my quiet best life as a private citizen and Mean Mr. Garland is picking on me. Halp, Halp!”
But, of course, he’s not smart. He has no “executive privilege”. He has no right to US Government Property and there’s no doubt that the documents in question are USGP. He broke the law, willfully and egregiously.
As it is, he’s going out of his way to keep fighting and Garland and the DoJ has no choice but to enforce the law strictly. And with great gusto, I’m sure.
Cheers,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: LOL! I missed that.
PaulB
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that to be the case. All through his tenure, Trump made it very clear that he saw, or wished to see, the President as a near-absolute ruler. The Justice Department was “his” and they were supposed to do whatever he wanted. Ditto every other Cabinet agency. Even members of Congress were “his” and were supposed to roll over and do what he said.
And “executive privilege” meant that nobody in his administration ever had to testify before Congress because how dare there be oversight? Heck, he’s still trying to assert executive privilege. A near-lethal combination of ignorance and narcissism.
So, yeah, the documents are “his.” Just like all of those other documents he tore up or flushed down the toilet during his tenure in the White House.
(Of course, it could easily be both: that it’s “because they’re mine” and because some of them were saved either because they could be used against him or because he, or one of his handlers, wanted to profit off of them.)
Chief Oshkosh
@The Moar You Know:
Oh, I don’t know. Let me give it a try. The man who was shot was black, as was his sister. The cops were white. That may be all the explanation that most of the authorities need to close out their exhaustive investigations.
Layer8Problem
Hurtling down the New Jersey Turnpike listening to all this on MSNBC on the satellite radio thinger. Nicole Wallace’s gonna be LIT.
PaulWartenberg
Trump stepped all over the Presidential Records Act like Sideshow Bob stepped on rakes.
...now I try to be amused
@CaseyL:
When the GOP Senators acquitted Trump they handed a blank check to a man who has a closetful of skeletons. I doubt they knew everything they were covering for, but it doesn’t matter ’cause they own all of it now.
The Lodger
@eversor: All these definitions are boiler plate which is the easiest material to leave unredacted. Anything referring back to these definitions has been redacted, and it’s anyone’s guess for now what these items really are.
MazeDancer
The laws delineated that Trump could not take the documents. None of them. Classified, unclassified, nuclear, or “just” – as Mick Mulvaney says – putting spies, other humans, and zillions of dollars of sources and methods at risk
Yet, clearly Trump took the documents. So, he broke the law. CASE CLOSE as darth would say. (Except referring to always innocent pets and not the always guilty FPOTUS.)
This is such an open and shut case, that Merrick Garland knows he has to either bring charges, or resign.
Ken
Wait, what?
Are you joking? I can’t tell if you’re joking. It’s TFG, anything’s believable.
Baud
@The Lodger:
True, but I presume DOJ only defines words it uses in the affidavit and doesn’t define extraneous words. So each classification should be at issue in this case.
Steeplejack
Little light change of pace: Kyrsten Sinema news flying under the radar on a big news day. 🧐
eversor
@Ken:
From the NYT
The Justice Department also gathered information from at least one witness suggesting that there might be more presidential material at Mar-a-Lago. On June 22, the department subpoenaed surveillance footage from various places in the club, including the hallway outside a basement storage area where Mr. Corcoran and Ms. Bobb had led Mr. Bratt nearly three weeks earlier to show him where documents had been kept.
The video showed boxes being moved out of the storage room sometime around the contact from the Justice Department, people familiar with the tapes said. And it also showed boxes being slipped into different containers, which alarmed investigators.
On Aug. 8, investigators found additional material, presidential records and classified documents in the basement area, as well as in a container on the floor of Mr. Trump’s closet in his office, a former dressing room in the bridal suite above the club’s ballroom.
The closet had a hotel-style safe, but it did not contain the materials investigators sought, and was too small to hold the documents he had, according to several people familiar with the events.
IIRC he never finished the full conversion.
Suzanne
I have no special expertise or knowledge here, so just ***insert Michael Jackson eating popcorn GIF*** in your mind, and that is how I feel right now. #ticktockmotherfuckers and all that.
Ken
@eversor: Oh, OK. I thought you meant a current bridal suite, and was imagining the SNL skit.
CLERK: “Mr. and Mrs. John Smith, of… Moscow?”
MR. SMITH: “That is the Moscow in your state of Iowo.”
MRS. SMITH: “Idaho.”
MR. SMITH: “Da, that is how I meant to say. Idahoo.”
CLERK: “Of course. Welcome to Mar-a-Lago. Now here’s the keys to your bridal suite, and please remember not to look in the safe in the closet.”
MR. SMITH: “Thank you. And where is secret tunnel to beach?”
The Moar You Know
@Chief Oshkosh: The victim was white. As was his sister.
Baud
@Suzanne: You could talk about the architecture of the various places at Mar-a-Lago where Trump stashed the top secret documents.
eversor
@Ken:
Funny you mention tunnel. There is (was?) a tunnel out of their to Rudy’s bungalo.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: I know two years is an eternity in politics, but it’s hard to see how Sinema ever wins a Democratic primary again. Maybe she’s doing a reverse Cheney — hoping that the rabid MAGA choads who have taken over the Republican Party in that state face-plant so hard that she can switch parties and swoop in to be the AZ GOP’s mavericky savior. That’s pretty dumb though.
PPCLI
@Ken: Yep. For any MAGAs who have their wedding in Mar-El-Lago, Trump claims Droit du Seigneur.
The Thin Black Duke
Don’t be surprised if you see Sinema on The View as their token right-wing Barbie doll nutjob.
Ken
@eversor: Yes, I knew that and was riffing on it. From the reports, a lot of people knew about that secret tunnel, and there was at least one recent incident where someone sneaked into the club using it.
O. Felix Culpa
@Steeplejack: To quote rikyrah, that trifling trick.
Here’s to increasing the Senate majority, whereby she becomes irrelevant, along with Manchin.
JimBob
@oatler:
Crapiolanus.
I’ll show myself out.
UncleEbeneezer
@Another Scott: Yup. Everything we have seen from Garland’s DOJ matches what he’s told us: that they will follow the evidence without passion or prejudice. They are seizing the phones of sitting Congressmen (Perry), investigating their own former personnel (Clark), investigating top-level Trump Administration officials (Powell, Eastman, Giuliani) and investigating and serving search warrants for Trump. If this is a DOJ that is somehow afraid of bringing charges against anyone, that sure isn’t evident based on their actions. There have been numerous opportunities for DOJ to cast decisions that would help insulate Trump from legal jeopardy and they have time and time again refused to do so.
They don’t appear to be playin…
Benw
Today I’m spending all the $$$ on sick pets!
also, fuck TFG, that dumb as dirt traitor.
piratedan
@The Moar You Know: apparently the officers felt that the man was reaching for a weapon, his sister…. too soon?
HumboldtBlue
@PPCLI:
Ewwwwww… eesh
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
This could only be said by someone who didn’t live through Watergate. Maybe you did, but this kind of thinking is what brought us to where we are today. I love you Betty, but you’re just wrong here.
Ruckus
@LAO:
Not disagreeing but really when there is about a square millimeter of ground to stand on and the perp has about $1.95 to pay for a lawyer whatayagunna do?
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: I’ve really just given up on this discussion. If people don’t believe that the DOJ is going where the evidence takes them at this point, they just won’t change their minds.
Gravenstone
@The Moar You Know: Dollars to donuts they claim he was trying to take her hostage and they needed to protect her.
piratedan
@geg6: If the wheels of justice continue to churn and offer up all of those guilty, we’re going to need a new federal prison just to keep all of these asshats together and away from infecting anyone else.
O. Felix Culpa
Jen Rubin breaks it down for us at WaPo:
Ruckus
@LAO:
IANAL but I still agree with your take here.
First, some of what they had to put in the application for a SW would likely be classified by it’s very nature.
Second, I believe you are correct about names, etc. This seems to me to be a highly unlikely concept, that of searching an ex president’s property for stolen documents, etc. Has this ever been done in this nation’s history? I don’t think so.
Chief Oshkosh
@The Moar You Know: Well, I did just say it was a try.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Not even just on this stuff, but look at DOJ’s actions with Breonna Taylor’s killers, George Floyd’s killer, and now re-trying Gov Whitmer’s kidnappers. These are all actions that a timid DOJ/AG could’ve passed up in order to not ruffle political feathers and risk violent public reaction. That they went ahead with those gives me a lot of reassurance that they are not investigating Trump simply to rub their hands and say “okay we’re done now.” We saw that clearly coming with Barr, but Garland has shown us no such positioning for an easy out.
The Lodger
@Baud: I’m sure all those classifications were used in the unredacted version of the affidavit. My point is, we ordinary mortals will never know.
Betty Cracker
@geg6: I’m fine with them charging the fucker with jaywalking at this point, but unless there’s solid evidence that he sold classified information or shared sensitive stuff with a foreign adversary, I’ll be surprised if the DOJ prosecutes Trump for mishandling classified documents. We’ll see!
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I don’t think Sinema’s going to switch parties, and Arizona Republicans wouldn’t support her anyway. They’re done with centrists, at least for now. Maybe the radicals will give up the steering wheel, but that will take if them getting thrashed for 2 or 3 more cycles after this one. I tbink Sinema is aware enough to see this.
So Sinema has put herself in a bind. Arizona Democrats will get a better idea where their state’s electorate is going this fall. If Kelly and Hobbs win, Sinema will look expendable. Representative Gallegos seems willing to make a challenge, and he’d be the first peer competitor Sinema has faced since she won her congressional district in 2012.
If the polls look bad Sinema might just retire. She’ll land on her feet. I’ve never seen an ex-Senator that wanted to not make good money..
Ivan X
I’m gettin all ready to hit the NYC meetup!
Gravenstone
Important here to note that all this reporting refers to the first tranche of documents that were returned in January. I don’t believe we have any insight at the moment into what may have been recovered in the most recent search of MaL. It may well be worse than the above reporting.
JPL
@eversor: holy shit!
All the republicans had to do is impeach him, after January 6th. They own this.
O. Felix Culpa
@Gravenstone: Good point. My guess, based only on close acquaintance with a malignant narcissist, is that what Trump kept was more valuable to him and therefore even worse.
JPL
@LAO: Both you and Weissmann seem to agree on this. Interesting.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I haven’t done a lot at these lofty levels of classification, but I did work for the government and had “derivative classification authority”. Meaning that if in my judgment something was classified, it was my job to cite the reference document behind that judgement (hence “derivative”) and PUT MY NAME ON IT for any reader to see.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
But “mishandling” is not what they are discussing here. They are talking about extremely serious national security issues and obstruction of justice. IANAL, but even without seeing the redacted sections, this looks pretty close to a slam dunk on both. Now, will he go to jail? I have no idea. But I do think Garland will indict him.
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
If he’s done what we all think (and know) he’s done, he shouldn’t get off any more than any one else, quite likely he should get a stiffer penalty. Even as a rather old fart, with likely not a huge number of years left and an EX pres, he seems to have broken some rather serious laws that he likely had explained to him and to which if any of us did anything close to this, we’d be in jail for possibly decades. Giving him a get out of jail card is BullShit.
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, T would sell classified information, but that’s a different crime. The FBI would have to find an itemized Russian shopping list for that crime category to work. Possible but unlikely.
SteveinPHX
@PaulB:
I’d be curious to learn if FBI, or others, are attempting to put together a list of docs that are MIA cuz they were flushed?
Steeplejack
I like “XPOTUS” more than “FPOTUS.” Has an air of finality about it, and a whiff of sleaze.
Baud
@Ivan X:
Say hi to NotMax!
Ruckus
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
…his crack legal team…
How do you know they are on crack? I mean sure they aren’t all together, a high end WS team of lawyers, or Rudy, but still, on crack?
SteveinPHX
@Geminid:
Sinema had/has wealthy donors during her term. She can’t get elected “dog-catcher” now in AZ. She’ll just take the $ and run. She’ll do OK. She’s no dummy.
rikyrah
@Steeplejack:
That’s why we need 2-3 new Democrats.
To make this Trifling Trick IRRELEVANT COME NOVEMBER 2022
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was probably someone on TikTok – “Hey! Having a great time here at MaL with MAGAMAN! Hey, you should join this place, all kinds of great, great people and great stories. Everyone’s talking about this thing posted on the croquet field bulletin board. There’s going to be a little seminar on the latest Air Force widget that will blow your mind!!11”
I mean, wasn’t there an old tweet a week or so from Kid Rock or someone basically saying that they were passing around TS stuff like party favors??!
Why would it have to be a USSS or Family guy? It coulda been the pool boy again for all we know.
Never mess with the librarians, archivists, pool-boys…
Grr…,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@geg6: We’ll see. I’m not a lawyer either, so I don’t know what charges they can prosecute him on. It sure seems like Trump won’t be able to squirm his way out of this jam by claiming he didn’t know he wasn’t allowed to have those documents; they’ve got correspondence showing he DID know the government wanted them back. And it sounds like they’ve got him dead to rights for concealing the fact that he was hanging onto sensitive documents, i.e., the letter that falsely claimed he’d returned all the classified stuff. Is that enough to prosecute him for damaging national security and obstructing justice? I have no idea. It’s definitely a slam-dunk for mishandling classified info.
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
I’m still back to why the phuck were the police AT A FUNERAL.
Ruckus
@StringOnAStick:
Either you work in the field or you have had to personally deal with a rather narcissistic personality first hand. I’ve had both experiences although the narcissist wasn’t at this level.
O. Felix Culpa
OT: Alexandra reinforces her status as National Treasure ™.
Farewell, Mother. I am off to join the IRS army!
First paragraph as a sweetener, more at the link:
Ok, I had to add another epistolary installation. As a person who practiced the Dark Arts of Accountancy, this one made me chuckle.
JaySinWA
@Ruckus: Well they probably can’t afford coke. OTOH Perhaps it was a spellcheck revision to “crank legal team”
different-church-lady
@Arm The Homeless:
Trump himself is probably going to blurt it out in the middle of an interview before the year is over.
different-church-lady
@O. Felix Culpa: It occurs to me that the GOP has reached the point where they think the entire electorate is insane, and they just need to keep providing more and more outright crazy.
eversor
@Another Scott:
Kid Rock, Sarah Palin, and Ted Nuggent were all at MAL. Kid Rock was on Tucker and mentioned that Trump whipped out maps and documents on North Korea and was asking them about this and Kid Rock started off with saying this wasn’t his thing to do and then freaked the fuck out when he realized what was going on
So kid Rock ratted them all out on Tuckers show because he was so fucking disturbed by what he saw and was involved with. Which makes him the only sane one in this mess.
Frankensteinbeck
@different-church-lady:
It was beautiful treason. It was perfect. Big league treason. The best deal selling nuclear secrets to our enemies ever.
Old School
@rikyrah: That’s where the suspect was. They couldn’t shoot him anywhere else.
Ken
@Frankensteinbeck: And I pardoned myself secretly, so I can’t be arrested, prosecuted, or even questioned.
Dan B
@Ruckus: How does the “crack” team differ from the “taint” team? Is crack adjacent to taint?
Ten year old boyz want to know!
geg6
@eversor:
Please, please, please! It wasn’t Chris Rock! It was disgusting, filthy Kid Rock! Ugh!
eversor
@geg6:
My bad! I don’t follow that music, oops. But yes you are correct, I th ought they were both Chris for some reason.
Fixed prior comment.
Frankensteinbeck
@geg6:
Either way, it backs up my point about why Trump took them and what he’s been doing with them. As a narcissist, he MUST still be president. His ego can’t handle losing that validation. So he needs these documents to be able to go “See how cool I am?”
Andrya
@The Moar You Know: The risk of violent police misconduct is much greater for African Americans than white people, but it is not zero for white people.
I am a white female senior citizen- not an obvious target for police prejudice. I was 65 years old when the raid I describe below occurred.
I’ve posted before on BJ the story of how a relative of mine, in her late 80s with dementia, called the police in the city where I live and told them that I was mentally ill and suicidal. (This was not true- I was not suicidal, and had never expressed suicidal ideas in any way whatsoever.) The police mounted a SWAT team raid- multiple police cars, flashing lights, police dogs, the works. All the neighbors came out to watch. I was woken up in the small hours of the morning by pounding on my front door and male voices shouting: “open up or we will break down the door”. Initially, I thought this was a criminal home invasion, so I picked up the only weapon I had, a hammer. Fortunately, before I opened the door I woke up enough to ask “who are you” and they said “police”. Again fortunately, I realized (though befuddled with sleep) that I needed to ditch the hammer before opening the door. If I had opened the door while carrying the hammer, I have no doubt whatsoever that I would have been shot dead. As it was, a police officer with a gun had me covered for the ensuing hour, while the police interrogated me and also ransacked my house looking for drugs.
Bottom line- while police abuse of African Americans happens all the time, police abuse of white people is also a huge problem.
geg6
@eversor:
Chris Rock is the guy who Will Smith decked live on the Oscars.
Kid Rock used to do white rap and toss around a little person on stage. I think he now is country. Who care? He sucks either way.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid: Sinema will end up as a lobbyist, at a think tank, or with some role in the media.
p.a.
I assume DOJ is seeded w tRumpists like most other gvt depts, so part of the “slow and fine” process of grinding can be making sure the work is funneled to people loyal to the Constitution, not to the Orange Shitstain.
Wapiti
@Betty Cracker: (sarcasm:) it wasn’t FPOTUS that mishandled the classified information, it was The Trump Organization, which owns Mar a Lago. So no harm, no foul.
(somewhat sarcastic:) I think the Feds should seize Mar a Lago under civil forfeiture rules, and The Trump Organization can be on the hook for proving that they didn’t break the law.
Calouste
@rikyrah: Because the police expected the suspect to be there.
Now, why did the police take action to apprehend that suspect they thought was armed, while there were people around at that funeral, instead of waiting for a better opportunity, like when the suspect went to his car at the end of the funeral? Most likely because the police wanted people to get killed, or at best didn’t care.
eversor
@geg6:
Yeah I just thought “Rock” and my mind went to “Chris” because that’s the first name that popped up
Also he may be a dipshit, but at least he realized this was a no go area.
O. Felix Culpa
@Andrya: How terrifying, and what a profoundly stupid way to deal with someone who is–as they were told–potentially suicidal.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker:
VOANews.com (from August 9):
TFG and those around him may not die in Leavenworth, we’ll see!, but they’re in big trouble. It’s not going to be swept under the rug – especially not while they keep fighting about it and refusing to accept that they are wrong.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@The Moar You Know: That is quite surprising.
Betty Cracker
@Andrya: Jesus, what a frightening ordeal! Glad you came through it physically unharmed.
Omnes Omnibus
“You know what I mean.” Perfect. Biden misplaced all of his fucks and he is okay with it.
Ruckus
@Dan B:
Have to wait till you are 12 to find out this info.
BTW girls know before then……
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
Well at least we’ve all gotten to see how bad a classic, idiot, narcissist really is. If only we could have watched/read about it, rather than have to actually experience it. Twice is more than enough in my lifetime.
Geminid
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: One of my many (brilliant) ideas has Sinema going for the big bucks and putting out a line of women’s workout clothing.
“Maverick atheletic wear. Tough enough for a triathlon. But stylish enough for Starbucks!”
UncleEbeneezer
Teri Kanefield has a good primer on the developments so far:
“We learned that the search warrant related to possible violations of the following statutes:
18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation
Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
From the Justice Department Criminal Resource Manual, § 2071 requires specific intent: the defendant must “willfully” violate the law.
18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information (part of the Espionage Act)
Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it.
18 U.S.C. § 1519— Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations
(Obstruction of Justice) provides that “Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.”
This is much more than innocent mishandling of documents. And DOJ had to show probable cause that MAL contained evidence of these crimes in order to obtain the search warrant.
Another Scott
(via
PopehatMostlyRedactedHat)Cheers,
Scott.
Dan B
@Ruckus: Oh noes! That’s a lifetime to wait while wandering in limbo!!!
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus: His smile and slight delay in the delivery are perfect.
Baud
@Another Scott:
OMG he just let Trump off the hook!
(Coming soon to an Alito opinion near you.)
MisterForkbeard
@MazeDancer: The thing is, I can absolutely see a former POTUS getting a lot of deference. Like, you wouldn’t arrest Biden for jaywalking. If Bill Clinton stole a candy bar, I’m sure it would be handled somewhat privately and he wouldn’t get indicted for it.
This is way, way different. And the DOJ very clearly tried to make a deal with Trump to get the documents back without consequences. There were literal months of “You can’t have those, please give them back” and Trump just kept refusing and then lying about it, over and over.
He’s HAD his deference and his shot to ratchet things down. He spit in DOJ’s face and dared them to do something about it. And they eventually and reluctantly did.
MisterForkbeard
@eversor: So… he wasn’t even keeping these top secret documents in the hotel safe. He just left them in a container on his closet floor.
FFS.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid:
“Maverick atheletic wear. Tough enough for a triathlon. But stylish enough for Starbucks!”
I can see it!
UncleEbeneezer
@MisterForkbeard: And this is one of the reasons I think Trump will be indicted. He can never resist doubling-down in defiance (which can add even more obstruction).
HumboldtBlue
@MisterForkbeard:
That’s a good point.
Ruckus
@Andrya:
My experience is that most cops are rather equal opportunity assholes. Sure, having worked adjacent to Watts for 25 or so years I’ve seen cops being complete and utter racist fucks, but many/most of them do seem to enjoy being utter fucking assholes for no reason what so ever. I have a friend from HS who wanted to be a cop and when he turned 21 he became a CHP. He did 30 yrs, rose to sergeant. I went to his CHP graduation from the academy. I ran into him after he retired, earlier in this century and we had a long chat about his career and being a cop. He hated what cops had turned into, how most of them act now, who and what they think they are. I see that as a pretty damning concept of the police of today.
Scout211
@MisterForkbeard: With magazines, newspapers and other unrelated papers thrown together with the classified documents.
MisterForkbeard
@Ruckus: Just mechanically, I don’t know how you put a former POTUS in jail. Like… Club Fed, but in isolation with the Secret Service running that portion of the prison? How does that work? How do you ever let him out, since he’d be an even bigger security risk at that point? But you can bet that the next R president would pardon him on Day 1, etc.
Like I said, mechanically I just don’t know how you’d put Trump in prison. The logistics and organization would be awful.
The Moar You Know
@WaterGirl: It may be to you but it sure wasn’t to me. I’m a former working musician. I’ve been pulled over for no reason many times, had the shit kicked out of me for having long hair, been roughly searched in public for drugs more times than I can count, and been held at gunpoint twice. If we want the police to stop shooting people for the hell of it, we need to acknowledge that this can and does happen to people of every race, creed and color. In most part to get buy in; if whites keep thinking this doesn’t happen to them, they’ll keep voting for no consequences for cops.
The Golux
@MisterForkbeard:
I prefer “a supper club for foreign spies and car dealers” that I saw recently (here, I assume).
Ruckus
@Benw:
That’s rather offensive to dirt.
Another Scott
@MisterForkbeard:
It looks like MDC Guaynabo in Puerto Rico is a possibility (they’re not accepting visitors according to the banner)…
OhpleaseOhpleaseOhplease…
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
@geg6: Pretty sure Kid Rock often wore a cape on stage, made from a Confederate battle flag. No wonder he and Trump hit it off so well.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: I like to think he knows exactly where all his fucks are, but he just refuses to waste any.
different-church-lady
@Scout211: “Subscription card for Playboy… not classified…”
eversor
@MisterForkbeard:
Bigly.
Even if it’s a secure room it has to be in the safe if nobody is in there.
jonas
@Another Scott:
Yeah, despite all the hysteria over Trump taking this classified material, the government has historically been extremely reluctant, it seems, to throw the book at people — especially powerful/prominent individuals — who remove or mishandle even high-level TS/SCI stuff. As long as, that is, they haven’t intentionally leaked or exposed the information in that material. Had Trump just returned the shit, we probably wouldn’t be talking about any of this right now, but he lied to the FBI about still retaining classified material and may have compromised some (or a lot?) of it. His lawyers could probably get him off on the unlawfully retaining government records part by arguing his a doddering old man who can’t read and doesn’t know what’s what. Lying to the FBI is pretty damn serious unless your corrupt, crony president pardons you for it, but some good lawyers could probably handle that, too. Compromising national security secrets like lists of CIA assets in foreign countries, is, well, another matter. If it turns out he was coyly waving any of this stuff under the noses of foreign assets, he’ll need to join Edward Snowden as a VIP guest of Putin’s if he doesn’t want to die in prison.
different-church-lady
@geg6: where do Dwayne Johnson and Adam Horovitz fit into this?
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
We have maximum security federal penitentiaries. A nice 6 x10 single room with a toilet and a bed. He’d be right at home……
I know someone in jail who I went to school with for 12 yrs. Been there for over 50 yrs. Only person left in jail for the crime they were involved in. One rarely/never expects the behavior this person exhibited and I think that time served has been more than enough but I’m not the governor. This person has spent their entire adult life in jail and trump is still a free criminal. The justice system is not perfect, sometimes it’s not even close.
eversor
@Ruckus:
But how many of the prison guards would be MAGA?
Calouste
@MisterForkbeard: South Korea have had 4 Presidents and 3 Prime Ministers imprisoned in the last 30 years. I suggest we ask them for advice, they seem to have experience.
Geminid
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: She’s both a triathlete and a clothes horse, and there’s a lot of money to be made in the apparel business.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: I should launch my fashion line, Do I Have To Leave The House Today Athleisurewear
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And Baud could launch a line of shirts. Just shirts.
Citizen Alan
@Steeplejack: Nah. XPOTUS makes me think of Extreme POTUS! Like Shitgibbon is going to do skateboarding tricks while drinking Mountain Dew. FPOTUS implies the F word, which is always a plus.
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: And FPOTUS makes it easy to spit while you say it!
Citizen Alan
@different-church-lady:
For the last 25 years, I have had constant flashbacks to a somewhat obscure George Romero movie called The Crazies, which was basically about a zombie apocalypse only the zombies are living people who are driven to homicidal madness by some Mcguffin chemical that got added to the water supply. I have often thought that the times in which we live can only be explained by a rapid expansion in the number of people who are sociopaths, if not psychopaths.
The Lodger
@MisterForkbeard: House arrest at Mar-a-Lago, no off-seasons in NYC or Bedminster, close all the tunnels first.
Another Scott
“It” being “indicted on the classified documents matter”
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lol, yes! Has Ghostie ghosted us, finally?
Gravenstone
I’d pay a modest sum to watch him attempt that. The resulting injuries would be glorious.
boatboy_srq
Something dawning on me looking through all the revelations about the documents.
Lord Dampnut is a bad businessman, a bad pResident, and a bad loser. And now we know he’s a bad spy.
For eighteen months he’s had all this material tucked away at Tsar-a-Lago. And, apparently, neither he nor anyone around him has thought to bring in a photocopier. Had they done so, they could have handed all the originals back and looked honest as boy scouts – and still had all the material in their possession to pawn to the highest bidders.
And knowing Lord Dampnut’s reading habits, the copies would have fooled him into thinking the originals were still there, so he’d have been happy even if, as has been suggested earlier, all he wanted to do with them was wow his visitors with them the way a big game hunter shows off pelts.
My entry for the Shakespeare contest: Lies’ Labours Lost
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lol, yes! Has Ghostie ghosted us, finally?