I don’t think that SestakGate will have much traction with voters for a number of reasons: (1) it’s a complicated process story and voters don’t care about complicated process stories, (2) “Sestak” is difficult to pronounce, and (3) Sestak is running against Pat Toomey, who is a shitty candidate. I find it remarkable that Broder has his Depends in a twist over it, given that he pooh-poohed the US Attorney scandal, which is along somewhat similar lines only a million times worse and illegal to boot.
That said, and John has probably asked this before: why the hell did Sestak have to bring this up in the first place? The stupidity of this strikes a real chord with me because I was a big Eric Massa supporter and campaign volunteer and he told stories like this all the time, even before TickleGate. Supporters ate them up because they showed how evil Rahm Emanuel and the DCCC were (Rahm ran the DCCC in 2006, during Massa’s first run, and in 2008, Massanistas generally believed that Rahm was still the puppet-master of the whole operation). I suspect that many of these stories were true, btw, but they became tiresome after three years and you can see what kind of insanity they devolved into in the end.
There’s a certain type of candidate who loves to tell stories about how the big boys told him (it’s always a him) to do X and he told them to fuck off and did Y instead. I guess it’s part of being a populist and the candidates who do it are often excellent populist candidates (I think Sestak is probably stronger than Specter in the general in this environment). But, my FSM, it gets annoying after a while.
Darius
I think Joe Klein (of all people) had the best take on this: “The Obama Administration may have been caught here in the commission of… politics.”
John Cole
The White House has given him an out with their memo- let’s see if he is smart enough to take it. Knowing that the only thing more arrogant than a Senator is a flag officer in the military, I’m going to bet Sestak can’t help himself and runs his mouth some more. If I had to guess, he’ll agree, but with qualifications, and nothing will be settled.
Zifnab
You do not find it a remarkable. Unless “remarkable” means “predictable”. We all know why the Applebee’s Salad Bar guy considers the Sestak / Obama affair deplorable and the Bush / USAs scandal acceptable. IOKIYAR.
Cat Lady
This is Villager catnip – no one else cares or understands why they should care, except maybe people who voted for Sestak, and why should they care? End of story.
Egypt Steve
What is your FSM?
The intertubes are no help. I don’t think you’re going for any of these. I do like “Fetal Stomach Movement” however. “Flight Suit Mammoth” also seems at least possible.
eyelessgame
From the top. I. O. K. I. Y. A. R.
Violet
It’s also happening relatively early in the “real” race. Voting day isn’t until November, right? This will be old news by then, if anyone remembers it at all. Unless Sestak is dumb enough to keep bringing it up.
Triassic Sands
Stupid? Maybe. But I would think the answer is pretty obvious.
Violet
@Egypt Steve:
As opposed to saying “my G-d”, it’s “my Flying Spaghetti Monster.” FSM for short. DougJ’s deity of choice, I guess.
ed
Others have already addressed this, but really? You really find that remarkable? Are you fucking serious?
TooManyJens
“Sestak” is difficult to pronounce?
Is it pronounced “Throat-Warbler Mangrove”?
DougJ
@ed:
Yes, I do find it remarkable. As awful as he is, he doesn’t usually go in for this sort of bullshit.
Even his infamous anti-Reid jihad was mostly about how stupid Reid was, not that Reid had done something illegal or unethical.
Mike Kay
Why would you find it remarkable, he’s always been a republican (if in Stockholm syndrome only).
John Cole
Probably wasn’t thinking when he was doing the interview, and just blurted it out to help burnish his outsider street cred, pushing the narrative that “even the WH does not want me to run…”
And then wasn’t smart enough to just kill it in the crib, or arrogant enough to think it would just go away.
IN addition, you have to remember that the a lot of the establishment in PA did not want him to run, so this could have served as a shot across the bow to them to back the fuck off.
John Cole
The other thing to keep in mind is that this makes Sestak look like an idiot because this job was not a big deal. We’ll see if he is willing to eat humble pie and start being a team player, or if his pride will get in the way.
Tim I
@Triassic Sands:
Everything I have heard about Sestak points to his being a real dick. I think he was pissed at the White House for not supporting him and he wanted to inflate his own importance, so he leaked the story.
There might be a PUMA aspect, as well. Sestak was a huge Hillary supporter. I find it telling that Rahm felt he had to use Clinton as an intermediary.
The Dangerman
For a Rear Admiral, he didn’t learn the “loose lips sink ships” thing.
Expect a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing (especially now that this involves Bubba).
Joseph Nobles
It doesn’t matter that it’s a complex process story, DougJ. The complexity is on the side of the White House, i.e., the truth. The media is already simplifying it down to “White House admits pushing Sestak to drop Senate bid.” That’s from @Reuters just now, nice and simple, and plays right into Republican narratives.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Don’t agree with this at all. This is being presented as a pretty straightforward political horse trade. The public (except for the far-right rump and pundits, of course) won’t see this as particularly out-of-the-ordinary or interesting. Lacking a large-scale exchange of cash or semen it will eventually fade away. In a worst worst worst case scenario where it doesn’t go away it can all be blamed on Rahm. This one’s a yawner, IMO.
Ana Gama
All the mouth-breathers really need to go take a Valium…or two..or THREE. Or an overdose would be fine by me.
mk3872
DougJ:
He was playing to the Firebaggers, of course. Without the support of the PA lefties, he would have narrowly lost to Specter.
Jim C
What’s all this about a Sleestak?
Amanda in the South Bay
Who the fuck outside of PA gives a shit about this? In all seriousness, as someone who is a bit of a political blogger junkie, this barely registers on my radar as something illegal or unethical. Again, maybe if I lived in PA, but even then this seems so…well, unimportant would be an understatement.
Amanda in the South Bay
I mean, how is this remotely controversial, illegal, unethical, etc? As in: exactly what lettter of the law is this supposed to have broken?
This is the kind of thing Broder and friends cream their undies over, which is never good.
Lev
Don’t all the polls give Sestak a small lead anyway? The one today had him over Toomey by 3%.
Based on what I’ve seen, Sestak seems to be rather arrogant and tends to talk before he thinks, but in PA–one of the oldest and most crotchety states in the union–putting a little distance between him and Obama is probably necessary to win. Especially since Sestak has no real policy differences from Obama that I’m aware of.
Woodrow L. Goode, IV
Three likely reasons (not in any order) spring to mind. One is that Sestak is pissed. Campaigns are pressure cookers that make people ultra-emotional (7 days a week, 18 hours a day). If the White House was trying to screw you to make life easy for a former Republican, how would you feel? Wouldn’t you want to get even?
He might also be trying to pressure the White House to help him. If he says “They tried to get me out of the race because they don’t like me”, and the press says “Is that true?”, the best way to show that you don’t hate the candidate is to help him a lot.
Third, he might be trying to motivate the Democratic base, and/or show his independent credentials. Saying “Obama doesn’t like me– see what he did!” is going to help you with progressives and it would undercut charges that you’re a puppet.
Adam Collyer
You know no one cares about this thing when even GEORGE WILL on the roundtable on This Week last Sunday basically called Toomey an idiot for even caring about it.
Me personally? I don’t like when people are offered jobs as a quid pro quo for removing themselves from races. I don’t like it from the GOP and I don’t like it from the Democratic Party. I do, however, realize that this is the sort of thing that happens on a pretty consistent basis. Also, we have no idea what really happened, what job was allegedly at issue, and whether Sestak was qualified for it. So no, I don’t really care. I truly suspect PA voters don’t care either, and a new Research 2000 poll out today proves that.
If Toomey thinks he beats Sestak (a man who, by all accounts, should’ve kept his mouth shut anyway) by using this as his wedge, good luck. That’s not stopping anyone from pulling the “D” lever.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
This reminds me of the military joke that each branch tells to prove that their enlisted are brave because they are willing to tell off their Commanding Officers.
I’mI was in the Navy, so the sailor said “Fuck you, sir” when he was asked to jump off of the deck. I had to cut my uncle off when he tried to tell me the Air Force version.Corner Stone
I’ve been convinced. IMO, the only honorable act at this point is for Adm Sestak to concede the Senate seat to Toomey.
I don’t really see another way out for this man now.
J.W. Hamner
I’m starting to believe that Sestak has neglected to clean up this mess mainly because the truth is sort of embarrassing standing next to the imaginary Secretary of the Navy offer he let people believe had been made to him.
Steve
@Joseph Nobles:
Yeah, I’m sure it will be just as fascinating to voters as “WH pushes David Paterson not to run for re-election,” which is another thing that actually happened and makes no difference. If anything, the narrative that there’s some distance between Sestak and the WH helps him win independents.
Tim I
It’ s being reported that Sestak issued a statement backing the White House account of what occurred. Looks like this little romp is over.
I’m sad for Darrel Issa.
Corner Stone
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Depending on what the WH report discloses, this could be the first step to a dictatorship.
I expect Martial Law to be invoked by sundown.
Corner Stone
@J.W. Hamner:
Why should he bother? He’s got nothing to lose over this.
Phlip
OT This from the great state of Ohio is Onionesque.
Freedom bitches
Adam Collyer
@Steve:
The only difference is that Governor Paterson is extremely unpopular in New York, and that feeling is bipartisan. Everyone I know here was happy that the White House put a hand in the race.
I don’t think PA voters care one way or another about the White House nominally supporting a sitting Democratic Senator who is a key vote (at least procedurally) during the next several months, nor about “offering” a well-liked member of Congress a job in the administration.
Nataya
I do NOT think Sestak brought up the matter; as I understand it, he simply responded to a reporter’s question.
rickstersherpa
It is amazing how Broder will strain at a gnat when dealing with a moderate-conservative Democratic Presidency, but swallowed whole elephants during the Bush Presidency as he luxuriated in his “close” friendship with Karl Rove. 9/11, two wars grossly mismanged, the WMD deception before the Iraq war, countless scandals in the administration, the Plame scandal, the U.S. attorney scandal, and of course the 2002 Democrats are secret Islamic terrocarts campaign that Rove mastermined. But IOKIYR.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/04/horton-20070423rdyu
liberal
@Zifnab:
I thought David Brooks not Broder was the salad bar guy.
Maybe you are (or I am) confused because they’re both irredeemable douchebags.
Brachiator
Actually, it’s a very simple story.
The GOP will push this as another example of Obama being nothing more than a corrupt Chicago machine politician, unlike Reagan or Dubya, who were as pure as warm summer rain.
It’s BS, of course, but neither details nor the truth really matter.
Want to see how simply it plays? Watch when Sarah Palin inevitably weaves charges of Obama’s political corruption into one of her upcoming speeches.
Nick
@Nataya: The media created this scandal, because we know the leadership of parties try to talk people out of races. We know this. Reagan did it with Margaret Heckler for example. It’s not a big deal, but we can make it one, because people will listen to whatever we have to say and never question it.
licensed to kill time
__
My eye always sees it as Swiss steak. Also, I hear Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen’s name as “Fat Allen” which morphs into Fat Albert, which always makes me laugh quietly to myself. You gotta get your laughs where you can these days.
slag
This! This is why gossipy assholes are assholes. This kind of passive-aggressive bullshit does nothing more than erode people’s confidence in the whole enterprise. It does nothing to solve the problem and does everything to perpetuate it. If these people had any leadership qualities whatsoever, they wouldn’t run around whispering this kind of crap. They would take it on directly. Try to change the system. Try to get new laws passed. Etc, etc. Instead they just passively admit they have no agency and cause all kinds of unnecessary drama. Assholes.
ruemara
This is silly. An up & comer is challenging the seat holder; they’re both from the same party. So the titular heads see that this is a serious challenge in primary but they’re not sure this new guy can win the general. What to do? Well, check out his creds, see if someone can talk to him and suss out the motives. If he just wants some more visible power post, make an offer of an additional responsibility, in this case, an unpaid advisor position in exchange for clearing the field. He says no, well, then back off and see if he can win the fight. What do you expect, it’s a party issue if they think they might lose the seat to someone ineffective.See, Coakley, Martha.
The whole damn thing sounds like a subtle use of the “thug” meme to discredit Obama. Ok, not that subtle.
And this soured me on Sestak. WTF, you’re gonna be working with the president and you start slinging arrows? Way to salt the ground, idjit.
liberty60
@Amanda in the South Bay:
I admit, I am in the same quandry here; the big scandal is that the WH wanted Spector to run instead of Sestak, and offered Sestak a position if he dropped out?
I don’t get it. I really honestly don’t see anything here but simple politics.
Joseph Nobles
LOL, wait until the “Hillary’s revenge?????” angle hits the news media.
Corner Stone
@ruemara:
At this point, who needs who more?
Nick
@liberty60: Simple politics is scandalous during Democratic administrations.
At some point us lefties are going to have to accept the media trashes and accuses Democrats of criminality for things they praise the Republicans for. There’s a double standard and the sooner we admit that and accept it, the sooner we can try to find a solution to it.
Nataya
I don’t see how Sestak was “slinging arrows.”
He was asked a question and responded, “yes.”
That’s hardly slinging arrows. And Sestak has been very careful not to add to that answer until the White House had spoken.
Cacti
Well, on to the next nontroversy.
I hear Obama’s birth certificate is fake.
Cacti
@Nataya:
His cagey non-denial of the Sec. of the Navy rumor was a dick move.
ruemara
@Cacti:
That’s it! I’m so not voting for that birth certificate.
Nick
oh Jesus Christ, Mark Knoller of CBS thinks he found the smoking gun. He says a law was broken, then linked this;
which is completely inapplicable in this case, but it doesn’t stop him from saying it is.
Joseph Nobles
Hey, I tracked down (Googled) one of the original stories on this.
We now know the person to be Bill Clinton.
DanF
There’s a certain type of candidate who loves to tell stories
That’s the biggest problem with politics – all our reps come from a self-selected pool. I’d be happy if we went with a House that was determined by lottery…
Syphon
http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/30549/bribe.jpg
Story over.
TR
The important question here, of course, is when Darell Issa’s latest windmill tilting results in another failure, how hard will he cry this time?
Nick
hey, this is fun
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19811126&id=ibcsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HhQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5060%2C5317656
Corner Stone
@Cacti:
So he’s already fairly skilled as an elected politician then. Good to know.
TooManyJens
@Syphon:
Yeah, right. IOKIYAR.
Steve
@Cacti: I disagree. We all know from our childhood that if you’re not willing to tell a secret, you can’t let someone start guessing and then be like “no, that’s not it… no, that’s not it… no, that’s not it either… uh, maybe!” If he wasn’t going to tell the job then I hardly expect him to start denying guesses as to which specific job it was.
Mike Kay
@Nick: Knoller is a creepy republican.
The day they had the HCR summit at Blair House, during the lunch period he went on CBS and breathlessly said Lamar Alexander’s “devastating” blows killed HCR.
Nick
@Mike Kay: I get that, since it’s all my Republican friends who keep retweeting him.
Triassic Sands
@Tim I:
I think your first paragraph is probably a lot closer to the truth than the second.
TeeJay in AR
The only one who cares that matters is Arlen Specter. No doubt the WH was keeping this under wraps because they did not want Specter to discover how little they had done on his behalf.
He has got to be furious now that the truth is out. He could have remained a Repub, commiserated with Bob Bennett, avoided a lot of hassle, and retired to a cushy corporate board next January.
The Harry Reid may have just lost a vote.
square1
Let me get this straight:
(1) This was 100% above board, entirely legal, and politically common-place.
and
(2) Sestak should have kept his mouth shut and not mentioned it.
It is sort of hard to reconcile those two. Personally, I come down firmly on #1. I see nothing wrong, whatsoever, with went down. But the fact that Obama’s supporters find a pressing need to toss Sestak (and “firebaggers”) under the bus does not reflect well on them.
J.W. Hamner
@Corner Stone:
From a political standpoint, I agree with you that this will likely not hurt him in the slightest, and possibly even benefit him by proving his distance from the administration… I just think that the right move is to correct the misunderstandings instead of trying to profit from them. I’m obviously not a politician though.
Corner Stone
@J.W. Hamner: IMO, clarifying anything at this point is damaging. It’s like letting a DUI suspect keep talking. The media wants details.
Just keep quiet and let the fauxrage machine move on to the next ginned up nothing.
I’m sure Cole will pick up on it too and pee himself about it, whatever it may be.
Adam Collyer
@square1:
No it’s not. It’s entirely legal and politically commonplace. If the administration offered him a job specifically to remove him from the Senate race (which, as I understand the story, probably isn’t entirely accurate), then I wouldn’t necessarily call it 100% above board. I’m an “O-bot,” but I don’t like when job offers are made for political gain – Democratic voters in PA are entitled to choose their candidate for Senate, not have the choice made for them by party bosses.
Sestak should’ve kept his mouth shut to avoid any trouble at all. I’m a Democrat, and I want to see him win. I have little preference to him over Specter, but distinct preference for him over Toomey. All Sestak did when he said that is open a non-existent issue up for debate that weakens his chance at the Senate in the general election. Whether it’s truly problematic for him or not is irrelevant. Why stick your foot in your mouth and make everyone look bad?
Resident Firebagger
Of course just this morning Cole was saying that Sestak had to back up his accusations. Now you at least acknowledge reality, but you all blame Sestak for even saying it.
It sounds like Sestak just made an off-hand remark about it a while ago, and the Village Idiots are running with it now.
I understand it’s politics that the administration probably promised to scratch Specter’s back when he switched parties. But still, isn’t the more interesting question why the Democratic establishment continues to aggressively support shitty candidates like Arlen when they could support less shitty candidates (with, arguably, a better chance of winning in November) like Sestak?
Hal
And there is the AP take on the story:
WH had Clinton try to ease Sestak out of Pa. race
Forced to disclose backstage political bargaining, President Barack Obama’s embarrassed White House acknowledged on Friday that it enlisted Bill Clinton to try to ease Rep. Joe Sestak out of Pennsylvania’s Senate primary with a job offer.
Mnemosyne
@square1:
It’s not so much that he should have kept his mouth shut the first time. More like he should have clarified when his statement came around to bite him in the ass rather than playing coy and letting the media create a whole shitstorm around it.
Nick
@Resident Firebagger:
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Sestak talking to the press on the Capitol steps I presume. I don’t know what’s funnier, the lamebrained questions or the tourists in the background. Frankly, I think this faux scandal is doing a world of good for Sestak, he’s getting a shitload of free TV time and he’s not having to defend himself from anything of consequence.
elftx
I think John had as post the other day about impeachment…well after just listening to Issa on CNN we may have our impeach moment brewing.
Jay B.
Jesus fuck you people are certifiable.
Specter was a piece of shit. And he’s a million years old. Why, in any conceivable universe, was he worth saving? OK, so the Administration tries to abide by some quid pro quo with him, not Sestak, by trying to clear the field. But the fucker was going to lose in the general. To a complete dog.
Note to the cultists around here — just because he had Obama’s support doesn’t make Arlen Fucking Specter a good guy. I don’t care that they tried to woo Sestak, but I’m happy as hell that he stuck it out and won over the monumental douchebag Specter, while pointing out that the tone-deaf, monumentally stupid Democratic Establishment — in this case the Administration and that gasbag Ed Rendell — supported the loser.
The “Thug” meme? My Christ. You guys have lost it.
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne:
It’s not biting Sestak in the ass! He’s loving all the free pub!
And the outsider cred.
Cacti
@Hal:
It’s not exactly a secret. Current AP chief Ron Fournier is buds with Karl Rove and was offered a job with the McCain campaign.
Corner Stone
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
Fucking A!
This is the reality the dimbulbs here have refused to understand. Sestak only benefits by this.
Do you really think Obama is going to hold a grudge against Senator Sestak? Or would rather deal with Senator Toomey?
Fuck! Rendell is going to start sucking Sestak’s joint, and get him fucking elected.
God damn there are some stupid people here.
Corner Stone
@Jay B.: And the admin should’ve kept their word and worked for Specter. That is complete solid politics.
There is no way any rational person could’ve expected them to tell Specter to fuck off and back Sestak. No problems there, it’s 100% politics.
But jeebus people. Sestak is now the nominee.
I would not be a bit surprised to see the WH coordinate some release report and have Sestak then say the equal of, “Hmmm, not how I remember that but thanks for your support WH.”
And I wouldn’t blame him a bit. He’s going to get miles out of this if he’s smart.
Does anyone really, REALLY, think Rendell isn’t going to get the D machine to turn out for Sestak because of this?
Goodness.
Jay B.
@Corner Stone:
Sure, I don’t care that they supported the hack, but I really hated the way they did it — especially Rendell, who was trying to make the electability argument in favor of Specter, who, clearly, majorities of both parties hate for good reason.
But whatever. I don’t particularly care that Sestak is holding a bit of a grudge either. Everyone will come around. The Democrats will probably hold the seat and have a better Senator to boot.
Corner Stone
@Jay B.: I agree. They did it. Did what they did. It’s over. Now Sestak will win the Senate seat.
kth
Late, but Brad DeLong pulled up a Broder column from 1974 when the walls were crumbling around the Nixon administration. Basically it amounts to Broder fantasizing about the House floor failing to impeach Nixon, and what would ensue (there’s no date on the article, presumably it was somewhat before the SCOTUS coup de grace that came in the first week of August precipitating Nixon’s more or less immediate resignation).
Whenever Broder is speculating about some presidential scandal, genuine or otherwise, it helps to know how he viewed the scandal of the century. And basicallly he thought that the Republicans in the House could have stood firm (he carefully avoids the shoulds, but they are clearly implicit in the coulds).
John Cole
And he did. He took the life preserver the White House chucked out there. It makes him look a little stupid because he let everyone think he had been offered the SecNav slot to get out of the race when it was an unpaid advisory job that Clinton floated, and he looks like an asshole for wasting everyone’s time, but he finally backed up his accusation this morning.
My goodness, you firebaggers are morons.
Corner Stone
@John Cole:
Waaaaaa waaaaaaa.
Pathetic.
This wasn’t hurting Sestak. You’re the moron, as usual.
square1
@John Cole: When the history of this administration is written, historians will be sure to note the tenacity with which Obama and his supporters stood firm against the firebaggers. The teabaggers? Not so much. The media? Not so much. The Blue Dogs? Not so much. Wall Street? Not so much.
But damn if they didn’t stare down that nonexistent effort on the part of Jane Hamsher and her readers to impeach Obama. Truly a profile in courage. Well done.
Corner Stone
Oh! The WH threw HIM a life preserver!
Yeah, cuz he really needed it for this nonstory in his Senate race!
Thank you WH! Thank you!
If I was Sestak I’d wring their balls out over this. This hasn’t hurt him a god damn drop except in the minds of idiots here.
He’s getting his face everywhere AND getting people thinking he can’t be bought by Obama.
And when crunch time comes Rendell will beat the fucking drum to get the machine working to get Sestak elected.
Argue against this. Please.
Fucking imbecile.
Cris
Ksssssssssssssssssssssssss
Triassic Sands
I don’t think there is anything surprising about Sestak’s behavior, especially if one is judging him on the basis of what we should expect from an American professional politician. (As a Navy admiral, Sestak’s professional political days began long before he ran for Congress.)
I don’t view his behavior as particularly stupid — just typical. And typical for an American politician is almost always going to include some measure of stupidity.
John Cole
Some of you people seriously need to take your meds. Sestak barfed this up and used it to his advantage, he let everyone think he had been offered the SecNav spot to get out of the race, Republicans seized upon it, and it was up to him to defuse the situation. You don’t just get to say “Republicans will bitch about anything” and “trust the WH” and pretend it was not a problem.
And now some of you are trying to turn this into me somehow shilling for the WH. Sestak has admitted he was full of shit, serious journalist will pay no attention, and it is over. That was all he ever needed to do.
kay
Okay, now it’s just getting silly:
“I was very conscious that the Democratic establishment did not want me in the race, and I merely looked at this as just another effort by the Democratic establishment in Washington D.C. not to have me in this race.”
Sestak insisted that “there’s nothing wrong that was done,” and that it was “just that one phone call.” Sestak said the discussion around the gig on a presidential board lasted less than a minute.
“I understand Washington D.C. is often about political deals,” Sestak said. “I didn’t feel bad or good or indifferent.”
“I said no and moved on.”
Come on. Is there really any doubt why he did this?
This is the text of a campaign ad.
He even has his jacket slung over his shoulder, casual-like. Nice touch!
Pennsylvania may well buy this nonsense, and I’d rather Sestak than the alternative, but, please. This was a tactic.
kay
This is even better.
Did he really say “working families”? Did Bill Clinton then bust out laughing?
square1
@John Cole: Keep pouting, Cole.
This is an anti-establishment, anti-incumbent political year. Sestak was well within his rights to play up the fact that the WH (i.e. “the establishment”) did not want him in the race. They didn’t.
But when Issa comes peddling a bunch of nonsense, does the WH have the balls to stand up to him? No. Like victims of serial abusers, Obama’s defenders cannot blame the abuser…Issa. No, they have to find someone to blame for bringing on the abuse (“Oh, Sestak, if only you hadn’t given Issa reason to abuse me!”)
Please stop blaming Democrats for Republican abuse. Grow a sack. Tell Issa to fuck off. Make thinly veiled threats of opening investigations into Issa’s ties to criminality. Go find a prostitute he’s banged or a nanny he paid under the table. Go find a video of him doing blow with Duke Cunningham. But for God’s sake, GO AFTER THE REPUBLICAN and stop whining about Democrats.
Corner Stone
@John Cole: You can try this on all you like Cole, but it does not comport with reality.
Sestak did what he should have done to win this primary. Now he’s going to beat Toomey and be the next D Senator from PA.
All your whinging and O-bagging to the side. You and kay totally misread this one, and you talked a bunch of shit about it. But you just boned this one completely.
It is a nonstory, it was always nothing, it was never going to hurt Sestak only help him, the WH was the one on the hook, Sestak used that as he should have, the WH has released their report, and Sestak can say anything he feels like and the WH will never contradict him about a good god damn thing.
Sestak can whip his slimy dick out and wipe it all over a poster of Obama, Rahm, Rendell or whoever and they will smile and laugh about it.
Sestak has the leverage here, not the WH.
And if you think differently please tell us all how much you think Obama and Rahm want to deal with Senator Toomey.
kay
@square1:
“We have concluded that allegations of improper conduct rest on factual errors and lack a basis in the law,” White House counsel Bob Bauer wrote in a 2-page memo released to reporters this morning.
Bauer says flatly in the memo that reports Sestak (D-PA) was offered the Secretary of the Navy position in exchange for backing off the challenge to Specter (which he won May 18) are “false.” Sestak first acknowledged there was some sort of offer in an interview earlier this spring, and has declined repeatedly to get into the details. The White House has maintained nothing improper happened.
All he had to do was say Bill Clinton had a 1 minute conversation with him and offered him an unpaid position. He could have said that on Morning Joe, but he didn’t.
He wouldn’t even admit there was no impropriety this morning.
He couldn’t do that, because he had hinted it was bigger than that.
I’m glad they threw him a line, though.
Corner Stone
@kay:
Yeah. I’m sure Sestak is too.
John Cole
@kay: WHY DO YOU HATE JOE SESTAK AND REAL PROGRESSIVES YOU OBAMA SHILL!
I can’t fucking wait for the no true scotsman moment where Sestak breaks these jackasses hearts.
Corner Stone
@John Cole: What a strawman clown you are.
You were wrong. You got nothing. Now you try your best to “firebag” et al your way out of your silly nonsense.
But please. Keep telling us all how things we never argued, like Sestak is a “true progressive”, some how is relevant to the fact that IT DOESN’T MATTER A FUCKING SHIT AT ALL.
Sestak can be the second coming of Heath Shuler in PA and it DOESN’T MATTER A GOOD GOD DAMN YOU FUCKING JOKE.
No one has argued he’s a progressive hero. Just that he is the D nominee and now the WH has to back him or deal with Senator Toomey.
But you keep on keepin’ on with your evasive hiding. Please, stoke up your horde against the mythic “leftists”.
Joke.
kay
@John Cole:
I want someone to ask Bill Clinton if Clinton really said, in response to Sestak’s principled rejection of his offer, “I knew you’d say that”.
Because Bill Clinton knows how noble Sestak is. Everyone does!
I think that’s my favorite part.
Corner Stone
@kay: Yeah, you and Cole huddle up on this some more. THIS is what actually matters.
God damn you guys are a fucking clueless joke on this.
Corner Stone
Man the ramparts!! FIREBAGGERS ARE ATTACKING!!
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
@kay:
Because all he did between committing the gaffe in February and this morning was make up an enormous deficit to Specter and take the lead in the general matchup.
square1
Kay: Let me explain something to you. Sestak may have been exaggerating the WH offer. I don’t give a shit. Why don’t I give a shit? Because his version of events is not criminal. Obama could have offered him a Supreme Court position and it wouldn’t make a difference.
Yes, politicians are allowed to make political appointments for political purposes. Good God, is everyone in the WH too chickenshit to just come out and say that?
The WH is discussing “factual errors” when the facts are irrelevant. Issa is 10,000% wrong on the law.
Obama is idiotically giving Issa credence by creating the perception that under certain facts (i.e. if Sestak had been offered the Sec Navy job) Issa would be correct.
Now answer this question. Under which set of facts is the public more likely to agree for calls for an independent prosecutor, when the existence of criminality depends on facts that are murky? Or when criminality can be ruled out regardless of whose version of events is correct?
Corner Stone
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
But Sestak had better watch it! He “barfed” some shit up and now IT’S ALL ON HIM TO RESOLVE.
Of course, most rational people understand he doesn’t give two shits about “resolving” it, and does not fucking care one itty bit if the WH is squirming about it.
Yeah. If Sestak, the progressive’s progressive, doesn’t watch it a little more closely he may not be the D nominee for PA Senator. Oh…wait.
square1
@John Cole:
Like Corner Stone, I don’t find the issue of Sestak’s progressive bona fides particularly interesting at the moment.
What I can’t stand is the defensive, guilty-sounding, evasive, and, yes, “Clintonian” approach that the WH is taking with regard to the accusations.
It depends on what job Sestak was offered? It depends on the meaning of “job”? It depends on the meaning of “offered”? It depends on the meaning of “paid”? These are not the tortured, lawyerly excuses that the public wants to hear.
The WH should have challenged the entire premise of the attack. You send out Gibbs to say something like the following:
Corner Stone
Oh no! Please WH, please don’t throw me in that br’ar patch!
I sure as hell don’t wants anyone to know you suck and I’m a true American hero!
Please, please, please throw me a life preserver so I can ex-trah-kate myself from this awful, awful mess!
kay
@square1:
Nick
@square1: I see you didn’t see Robert Gibbs’ press conference the other day where he said basically that…something to the effect of “Issa is trying to play partisan politics with a non-issue” or something or another.
Once again clueless firebaggers want the President to do something he already did, because, of course, the media isn’t going to tell you when he did these things.
Nick
@kay:
Except, kay, that Obama (through Gibbs) did tell the media to fuck off and that’s why they turned it into the issue it is. I work in the media, I follow what happens in the press room. The administration did exactly what square wanted it to and it just led the media to make up lies and blow it out of proportion.
So he responded the way any good person would respond…with facts.
Nick
@square1:
and he’s doing this by what? releasing facts to show that Issa’s rumors are untrue?
Get with it dude.
kay
@Nick:
There’s just this constant language. That people in the WH are “getting played” and they need to “get tough” and on and on.
Its like every insult or loss since the beginning of time must be avenged.
It’s not healthy. I read that Dick Cheney spent most of his career nursing a grudge about Watergate. He’s a freaking twisted paranoid monster. That worked out well.
Obama doesn’t have time to discredit or deconstruct the whole insane Republican impeachment theory, because they impeached Clinton, and we must be vigilant!
Sestak should have answered the question simply and honestly, when it was asked. It’s easier.
Mnemosyne
digby points out a very important detail: Bill Clinton’s impeachment was predicated on the idea that it was somehow illegal for Vernon Jordan to offer Monica Lewinsky a job away from the White House.
I was wondering why so much of what the talking heads have been saying sounded like a rerun. They just dusted off the old script and went to town.
square1
@kay:
Kay, the WH didn’t have to walk anything back because what Sestak claimed happened…wait for it…wasn’t illegal. Do you not understand that? If Obama had offered Sestak the job, it would not have been illegal.
Sestak said that he was offered the Sec Navy job? So what? So what? Instead of “walking it back” the WH could have just said, “and so what if we did?” What was Issa going to do? What was the press going to do?
You repeat “So what?” for a few news cycles. You don’t panic. You paint Issa as a partisan hack and the story goes away.
Yes, it goes away. The public doesn’t care as long as you don’t act like you are guilty. When you start having internal investigations and issuing reports…
Corner Stone
@square1: kay’s not going to get there.
She’s pretty sure Sestak was the one on the ledge here. She doesn’t have the faculty to understand Sestak has all the leverage and the WH has none.
kay
@square1:
I know it wasn’t illegal. I said that. That’s where we part ways.
I just get tired of this consistent theme: issue = knee-jerk belligerent “fuck off’ to whomever and whatever, issue goes away!
I don’t think that’s 1. tough or, 2. smart
Because Republicans lose an election and them embark on a mission to remove the winner, that does not render Democrats incapable of responding to a question with a simple factual statement.
You see the White House response as some huge shameful cringing concession. I don’t. A vague allegation was made, then never clarified, and so they sent it to the lawyer. Seems reasonable to me. I think they did a thorough inquiry and issued a conclusion. They wouldn’t have had to do that had Sestak simply answered the question that was put to him.
More broadly. we probably disagree fundamentally. I see your approach as playing the same stupid games, only better. I don’t want to play these games at all. They never end.
Mo's Bike Shop
Perhaps Sestak should fess up and then run a pro DOMA/School Uniform campaign?
President Obama’s endorsement hasn’t proved to be terribly useful for electing a Democratic candidate so far.
Convincing voters that Obama will be as readily accommodating to a mandate from the left as he has been to the Republican status quo, may be the best sell for November.
postmodernprimate
@Jay B.:
A-fucking-men. I’m sure they’re working vigorously behind the scenes to protect Blanche Lincoln as we speak. Corrupt incumbent douchebags aren’t the “electable” candidates anymore.
Ronbo
Very little of what Obama has done reflects well in his administration. It, however, does reflect well on the Bush administration.