Apparently Christopher Hitchens wanted to have Saddam’s babies, too:
The disgusting video of Saddam Hussein’s last moments on the planet is more than a reminder of the inescapable barbarity of capital punishment and of the intelligible and conventional reasons why it should always be opposed. The zoolike scenes in that dank, filthy shed (it seems that those attending were not even asked to turn off their cell phones or forbidden to use them to record souvenir film) were more like a lynching than an execution. At one point, one of the attending magistrates can be heard appealing for decency and calm, but otherwise the fact must be faced: In spite of his mad invective against “the Persians” and other traitors, the only character with a rag of dignity in the whole scene is the father of all hangmen, Saddam Hussein himself.
How could it have come to this? Did U.S. officials know that the designated “executioners” would be the unwashed goons of Muqtada Sadr’s “Mahdi Army”—the same sort of thugs who killed Abdul Majid al-Khoei in Najaf just after the liberation and who indulge in extra-judicial murder of Iraqis every night and day? Did our envoys and representatives ask for any sort of assurances before turning over a prisoner who was being held under the Geneva Conventions? According to the New York Times, there do seem to have been a few insipid misgivings about the timing and the haste, but these appear to have been dissolved soon enough and replaced by a fatalistic passivity that amounts, in theory and practice, to acquiescence in a crude Shiite coup d’état. Thus, far from bringing anything like “closure,” the hanging ensures that the poison of Saddamism will stay in the Iraqi bloodstream, mingling with other related infections such as confessional fanaticism and the sort of video sadism that has until now been the prerogative of al-Qaida’s dehumanized ghouls. We have helped to officiate at a human sacrifice. For shame.
Read the whole thing (via Sullivan). It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to recognize this whole thing was botched.
Joel
Yes, the trial was a joke and the execution was a lynching. I’m still OK with it, for two reasons:
1) Italy. After WWII, Mussolini was kicked and beaten to death by a mob in the streets of Rome. But Italy came out OK.
2) Romania. After the Soviet Disunion, Causeceu was captured by gunmen, given a “trial” that lasted 15 minutes, and then executed by firing squad on the spot. The gunmen were careful not to shoot him in the face, to make sure that he would be recognizable afterwards. But Romania came out OK, and indeed it is hard to find Romanians today who will criticize what was done to him.
So I seriously doubt that Saddam’s monkey trial and lynching will damage Iraq. At least, certainly not more than all the other crap that we’ve pulled there will damage it.
craigie
Nobody could have anticipated that this administration would botch something important.
The Other Steve
Apparently Keith Ellison is going to do his swearing in on a copy of the Koran from the Thomas Jefferson collection.
Jefferson was born in what is now Goode’s district.
Keith
It’s depressing, but these stories always seem to devolve like this. Big event in War, followed by assertions that a) it’s a turning point and b) it was done by the book, followed by documentation that it’s not, followed by retaliatory violence, followed by an investigation into who made the documentation.
The Other Steve
I’m with Joel.
members.aol.com/Custermen85/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm
And Hitchens is as shrill as ever, and certainly no rocket scientist.
ThymeZone
Must disagree with Joel. The timing and nature of the execution are just another stain on the sorry record of the US “stewardship” of the fledgling nation of Iraq … it will become just another item on a long checklist of fuckups, bad choices, omissions and stupidities that characterize the whole misadventure.
Even as a staunch opponent of capital punishment in the American criminal justice system, I really don’t care that they executed Saddam. His crimes transcend our issues here. What I do care about is that this execution was political theater, and for that reason among others, should have been timed and carried out in a way that served our interests in Iraq, in the region, in the world, and at home … or else not carried out at all.
And in the shitty afterglow of this event, we now await at least the third “explanation” of a “plan” for “victory” in Iraq from Mister Potatohead in the last 14-15 months, which I am sure will follow in the tradition of the preceeding bloviations from him, lacking any real plan and devoid of any actual description and way to measure victory. In this miserable hour we will have to sit through another of his crummy speeches and wonder why in hell we should even consider believing anything he says.
The stupid little man could act like he is actually in charge of something. He could have come back from the ranch a little early, could have at least pretended to want to manage the Saddam event or delay it, could have shown up early at the Ford proceedings, could have floated an Iraq proposal that is grounded in getting us the hell out of there instead of a phony “surge” that we are apparently going to get. Nope, just another dismal week of his self-serving and perpetually self-justifying weasely crap complete with a whine to Congress to “let’s all get along.”
From the Saddam execution to the bitter end of this particular episode, we again feel like we are watching a bad cartoon.
The Other Steve
Apparently Sullivan is a Bleeding Heart Shrill too.
The Other Steve
Somehow I think “you killed my father” is going to be remembered long after Hussein was taunted at his execution.
ThymeZone
We report, you divide.
Cyrus
You know, maybe we should welcome anyone who figures out that things aren’t going well and it’s at least partly because of the “bring it on” theory of diplomacy, regardless of what particular event pushes them back into sanity, but I’m not feeling that generous. If it took Hitchens a farcical execution to figure out that “war is hell” and “getting rid of Saddam was the easy part,” he has a way to go yet.
Sojourner
Poor Christopher. His support for this war has become indefensible so all he can do is criticize the many ways it’s been botched. Perhaps some day he’ll accept responsibility for having supported a really bad idea.
ThymeZone
I think what will be remembered is that the thing was just another in the 1000-plus-year-long factional mass fuckup that is the history of that region. Just another A versus B thing with its usual share of violence, death and screamed slogans. Just another example of why we should never have gone in there in the first place, thinking that we could blow apart the country and then sit with our thumbs up our asses while it put itself back together.
Zifnab
Italy received millions in aid during the Marshall Plan reconstruction effort. It received military and diplomatic support from a newly powerful USA. And it submitted peacefully to occupation by the Allies, by and large, once the war was over. The replacement government of Italy wasn’t perfect, but it was a damn site better than the Shia regime of Al-Maliki.
Romania is still a mess, years after Causeceu’s fall. They’re just now being admitted into the EU under extreme reservations from a number of the western members precisely because of the lawlessness and corruption that run rampant through the country. Romania is better than it was under Causeceu, but it’s not yet “good”. I think you’ll want to find another example here.
Paddy O'Shea
I don’t know why this is such a mystery for some people. Iraq is now ruled by a pro-Iranian govt. Of course they couldn’t wait to hang Saddam.
Doesn’t everybody know Iran is the big winner in this war?
ThymeZone
In light of Paddy’s post, I had to revise my remarks.
Teak111
Its thier country, they can hang the guy with cameras rolling if they want. Besides, Iran ordered it done quickly and it was done. What does Maliki or the US have to do with it?
Paddy O'Shea
Speaking of executions, rightwing radio hero Hal Turner is creating a lot of excitement in Loon World by claiming that he and those like him will assassinate any Democratic Congress member who sponsors or votes for amnesty for illegal immigrants.
wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53245
ThymeZone
Good lord. Just when you think those maniacs can’t get any crazier.
cleek
from the Hal Turner article:
charming.
let’s see… USA PATRIOT 802:
Tsulagi
The Saddam execution/lynching/human sacrifice/whatever just sort of went with the flow of all that is now MESSopotamia. In one way it was a fitting cherry added on the shit pie this administration has baked in Iraq. Don’t worry, it’s a big pie, plenty of room for more cherries.
Amazing. Retardocons like Cheney, Rummy, Kristol and the rest of their boys for about a decade constantly thought of doing Iraq. I won’t say they’re completely retarded, but collectively over ten years or so you’d think they would have thought through their fantasies just a little bit better. Saddam’s execution? Guess that was a rush job in their thinking and planning. Only three years to prepare.
Snark aside, one other aspect of the hanging struck me. Given Saddam’s crimes against his own population over decades, apparently not even four or five could be found among the 300k+ Iraq Security Forces to perform as guards/execution handlers unmasked, proudly in uniform, and with quiet resolve. Nope. In the presence of an old man with his arms and legs bound, we see fear and weakness in his state execution handlers.
So much for the “They stand up, we stand down” bullshit. Yeah, that’ll happen about the time Jesus returns and has babies.
Kav
Joel, sorry to nitpick but Mussolini was executed by a partisan firing squad near Lake Como; he was not beaten to death by an angry mob on the streets of Rome.
Pb
And your argument here is, it’s ok because the ends ultimately justified the means in these other cases? I hope you see how manifestly stupid and flawed that non-argument / future prediction is without me further ridiculing it?
Fed up!
So? Who cares if it was botched? Is this something that we should even be paying attention to? No matter what we did, or had the Iraqis do, it was going to be viewed badly. How can an execution be viewed in any positive light? Can there be an execution with dignity? I don’t think so.
Zifnab
Why did the Iraqis hang Saddam? Because they didn’t like his face, or because they were trying to extract justice from a despot?
If the entire proceeding comes across as a farce, a big slap in the face to Sunnis, and a pathetically mismanaged operation, then how are Iraqis supposed to gain respect for their government? How was this execution any different than a mob beating the living daylights out of Mussolini somewhere in the streets of Italy?
Davebo
Look folks, don’t fall for the liberal spin here.
And for once, ask yourself, why isn’t the mainstream media reporting on all the good things God is telling Pat Robertson.
salvage
Christopher Hitchens is a drunken troll having a manufactured moment of clarity. He was this war’s biggest cheerleader, the fact that now that it’s obvious to all but the most oblivious that Iraq has gone sour he’s started noticing “Hey… that mission wasn’t accomplished at all!”
Fuck him and fuck his outrage, while he’s certainly correct in calling it a lynching it is a pretty minor atrocity in comparison to all the shit he’s solemnly approved of in regard to Iraq. All he should be writing about Iraq is “SORRY!” over and over again until his hands fall off and he can’t write any more.
Joel
Pb, you moron, I have freely acknowledged that we have completely screwed the pooch in Iraq. I am simply pointing out that the Iraqi people *needed* to see Saddam die, just as the Italians and Romanians needed to see their former oppressors die. Purging the national soul of the former evil. The fact that Romania still has problems does not negate the good that was done for the national psyche by Causeceu’s summary execution.
Iraq, on the other hand, is so completely screwed up that I doubt Saddam’s death will really help much. But it certainly won’t do any harm.
Steve
Do you accept, as a starting point, that Iraq is a deeply divided nation that does not have any kind of a “national soul” at this point in time? The analogy to Italy and Romania just doesn’t fit.
The fact that many Sunnis now see Saddam as a symbol of Sunni martyrdom – when, in any rational world, they should see him as a butcher who killed countless Sunnis as well as Shia and Kurds – is a pretty bad development for our mission. And we really didn’t need any more bad developments right now.
ThymeZone
Reminds me of the former glory of Donald The Rumsfeld.
Hey, stuff happens. Who cares? Execution, Schmexicution. Good riddance to the asshole. You execute the prisoner you have, know what I mean? Ha ha.
About as well thought out as the entire war and occupation have been so far.
You should get a job in the Pentagon. Or maybe you already have one?
“Hey, they’re gonna hang Sassam? Off the hook, dudes! Can’t wait to see the video!”
Etc.
Detlef
What Steve said at 2:17.
Don´t forget too that the execution happened on Saturday, the first day of the Sunni Eid. While for Shia, Eid started on Sunday.And that executions aren´t supposed to be carried out during religious holidays. IIRC it´s even part of the Iraqi laws.
So the execution is also an insult against Sunnis everywhere.
Maybe the Shia don´t care. A NYT article 1-2 days ago reported that some Iraqi Shia politicians were actually proud of disregarding the Sunni Eid.
The US however should have been smarter.
Steve
I wonder where John is on this breaking development?
Zifnab
Clearly a Rovian liberal trick. Stunts like this will make it appear that people disapprove of the war, when assort scholars and experts all agree that the war supported by all red-blooded god-fearing heterosexual Americans.
James F. Elliott
Christopher Hitchens remains near and dear to this liberal’s heart after discovering him three years ago in a completely impulsive book purchase. There’s something about opinion writers educated in England that makes them totally awesome. My favorite conservative writer is John Derbyshire – he’s fascinating even when he’s so completely wrong, and a hoot to read. Hitchens is the same way, even if you can literally perceive the alcoholism rotting his brain. Besides, anyone who’ll follow Henry Kissinger around screaming “Toad!” any time he tries to speak has to be worth keeping around.
I’m fairly certain this is a joke. But my Post-Darrell Stress Disorder makes me suspicious.
In Hitchens’ defense, he’s been against the death penalty for Hussein since his capture. He wrote a very interesting piece on the Kurdish president’s (is that the correct term for their leader?) anti-capital punishment stance.
Steve
Hitchens believes some things that are extremely right and some things that are extremely wrong. Like Andrew Sullivan, he’s frustrating because you can’t fit him into one of the two little boxes.
ThymeZone
Good for her.
Jonathan
There isn’t anyone in charge who has ever even heard of the Eid ul Adha.
I frankly doubt that the incoming Democratic Congress is really going to all that much more informed given the pathetic recent performance of incoming House Intelligence Chair Reyes.
Pb
Joel,
Unfortunately, name-calling doesn’t improve the quality of your argument in the slightest. Idiot.
No, you were pointing out that you were ok with Saddam’s execution because in other executions, the countries involved later turned out ok in your opinion–two things that morally have nothing to do with one another. It’d be like saying that you were ok with the fact that (and the way in which) they killed Jesus because Christianity turned out ok in your opinion. It’s just incoherent.
LOL. Yeah, they’re just thrilled about it over there–so much so that they’re rushing to disavow (aka lie about) their participation in it at all. Please.
Anne
Indeed, where is the outrage. For that matter, where is yours Steve? Upon the barricades to demand accountability… from John Cole. Go figure…
Anne
Dutch media are reporting that the execution room was infiltrated by the militias. Apparantly Saddam was not executed by the assigned executioners, but by militia members. The Volkskrant quotes Iraq’s national security advisor Mowaffaq al-Rubaie confirming the infiltration.
So it seems that Joel got what he asked for: a lynch mob. The Iraqi (and the US) cannot even secure an execution
roomshed, let alone Baghdad.Steve
You could put Juan Cole in Congress and it wouldn’t matter because no one is going to ask Congress’ opinion anyway on whether Saddam should be handed over. Maybe next time they should check with Riverbend.
The Other Steve
I for one am going to give Sheehan a donut!
Clearly she’s a troll.
TenguPhule
Black hooded masks *are* standard uniforms for the New Iraqi Security Forces(tm). Because many of them fear being identified and killed after they go off duty.
Tsulagi
She’s Darrell in drag.
Punchy
You’ve just caused me COK (Coke On Keyboard). Too funny. The day Hitchens takes responsibility for ANYTHING not involving an empty liquor bottle is the day I crap myself. And I’m not planning on buying those Depends any time soon.
Faux News
Kind of like Rudy in “Come F*ck Me Pumps”?
wonkette.com/politics/walnuts/mccain-campaign-steals-rudys-secret-strategery-plans-225544.php
Grrr
Well, Hitchens did come down on the non-insane side of the Terri Schiavo travesty.
But those quirky neocons still get all drippy over him for supporting a single pet (now losing) issue. Until now, maybe.
Tsulagi
Pretty much. BTW, you need to learn how to embed a link.
Zifnab
I always assumed that the entire purpose of Galloway and Hitchens was to parody the American public as a bunch of slack-jawed, ignorant retards.
Kinda like a political Punch and Judy. Except these two dumbasses say whatever intellectually vapid thought floats past their brains that they think will rally the fringes of the respective American political bases. Then they get to verbally shadow box on TV with the subtle tagline “This is how those braindead Americans act on a daily-freak’n-basis.”
Grrr
Speaking of Rudy, I am absolutely dumbfounded that so many on Redstate (for one) look to this man as their 2008 presidential hopeful given:
1) The existence of the above linked picture
2) that 1) may hint at the fact that he might not be the Ideal War President they crave.
Faux News
It worked for me :-(
matt
But both sides are still just as bad, because people at DU want to piss on Reagan’s grave, and Michale Moore is fat.
Punchy
Is this the French brother of Michael Moore? Are they ALL fat?
And a new adjective has been coined today to describe how Bush portrayed the Iraq War to the American people: We’ve all been Saban’ed. Rat bastard.
Tsulagi
Um, if you mean the link working, yes, took me straight over to the Wonkette site seeing a picture of Rudy modestly trying to cover his nyloned legs. I meant embed the link in text so the margins here don’t get blasted to the far right. Maybe like this: Kind of like Rudy in “Come F*ck Me Pumps”?
Faux News
Ah, ok! In the future I’ll try, but I’m rather inept at stuff like that :-)
Jimmy Mack
Why? He has a good track record as mayor and is widely admired. Unless you buy into the idea that the big, bad evangelicals won’t vote for him, then I don’t see what is his weakness.
Tom in Texas
Faux:
Just copy the page you want to link, then click on the little “>>” symbol above the text box. Then highlight the text you want to be the link and press “Link.” In the box, paste your link. Done!
Faux News
Thanks Tom! I can finally get exit the Balloon Juice Short Bus now.
Zifnab
All your links are belong to us.
Paddy O'Shea
“Embedding” is an anti-MAC, pro-PC supremacist plot.
Grrr
Speaking of
pissing on Reagan’s grave:
History is *so* confusing.
Paddy O'Shea
In addition to being anal retentive and bourgeois.
Joel
Pb, have you made an argument yet? All I see in your postings is bile.
My argument, in a nutshell, that nations can benefit from executing their former oppressors. Not that hard to understand, though you certainly seem to be missing it very effectively.
Also, it is just plain weird that you think Italy and Romania are irrelevant here. I suppose they are irrelevant, except for the fact that those countries, like Iraq, were ruled for many years by violent tyrants who slaughtered millions of people while treating all citizens like slaves. The Italian and Romanian method of dealing with tyrants worked perfectly well. The end (absolute certainty that the tyrant would not do any more damage) justified the means (execution).
Sorry if empirical evidence bothers your opinions.
Steve
I’m pretty sure I explained the exact reason why Italy and Romania seem completely different. Pity you chose not to address it.
Zifnab
You shut your face Grrr. Saint Ronald never gave Saddam weapons, he gave Saddam Capitalistic Free Trade With A Side Of Justice. We were fighting communism back then, and Reagen did what he needed to do so that we could finally defeat the USSR. That the USSR fell under the Reagen administration proves he was a brilliant strategerist who’s every thought was bent on achieving that victory. Thus giving weapons to Saddam was in the best interests of the nation and never happened so shut your yap!
Why do you hate freedom?
TenguPhule
Same Darrell, different name.
Trying compare Iraq to Italy or Romania is about as intelluctally honest as comparing Iraq to WW II.
The square peg doesn’t go in the round hole.
ThymeZone
Hey, I feel your pain. We can make Joel a member of the TallDave Society. I’m still waiting for TD to explain exactly why he thought Iraq was like the American Colonies.
No, I’m not kidding. So I think Joel might be eligible for some kind of TD recognition thing.
Maybe a six-month free carwash pass? Something.
ThymeZone
Okay, new game.
Rome is to Baghdad as King of Prussia, Pa is to _______.
?
Anyone?
ThymeZone
Bucharest?
ThymeZone
Where exactly is the bile key on this thing?
Steve
I was thinking Thessaloniki, but I’m open-minded on this one.
Perry Como
Right next to the troll key.
ThymeZone
Okay, well Joel complained that Pb was giving him nothing but bile. I didn’t know that he could post all bile.
I like about a 60-40 bile/nonbile ratio myself. All bile is pretty hard to maintain. No bile is just syrup. I like the balanced approach.
Think sweet-and-sour chiken.
ThymeZone
er, chicken.
demimondian
I typically find it only when I’m looking for the “any” key.
Steve
Let the biler beware.
TenguPhule
404 Error. The Bile you are looking for was not found. Please see your system administrator if you feel you reached
this Bile in error.
TenguPhule
My gorge doth protest that image.
ThymeZone
No fair … at this point you guys are just biling on.
GOP4Me et al
Swansea, Massachusetts. I mention that because Rome is a very important, famous city, but Baghdad was a city of major import long before Rome arose to prominence; similarly, although King of Prussia was the site of a battle between Washington and Howe in 1777, Swansea, MA was a city burned to the ground during King Philip’s War, the bloodiest (per capita) conflict in American (and pre-American colonial) history.
Then again, King of Prussia has a mall; I’m not sure if Swansea has a mall or not, so maybe there’s some other city that was burned to the ground in Massachusetts which can more closely approximate this vital link.
Okay, Thymie, my turn: East St. Louis is to Baghdad as Rome is to ______.
GOP4Me et al
Okay, here’s another one: Baghdad is to Sarajevo as Fallujah is to ___. (Take your time, wingnuts, it’s a tricky one.)
Perry Como
While the wingnuts ponder GOP4Me’s analogies, President Bush has unveiled his new way forward in Iraq. Just add soldiers.
ThymeZone
Frank Sinatra.
Think “Three Coins in the Fountain.”
Juxtaposed against “East St. Louis Toodle-O,” I think you see where I am headed with this. One hilarious website has the title written by Steely Dan, which doesn’t quite explain how Duke Ellington was recording it in the 1930’s.
Otherwise I’d say Memphis. All of these cities are on big rivers.
ThymeZone
Oklahoma City. Terrorists are the common thread.
JWeidner
I think that reads better…
Filthy McNasty
in a general sense, across the globe, nobody gives a shit about this. A horrible man is dead, and the world is better for it. This Monday morning quarterbacking of the execution is the affliction of the comfortable.
TenguPhule
Except of course for the hundreds of millions of Sunni across the world who have watched Bush just turn Saddam into a martyr.
And the rest of us with a clue bracing for the fallout from this botched lynching.
But other then that, yeah who cares in ‘who gives a shit’ land?
ThymeZone
Oh yeah, we’ve definitely turned a corner in Iraq.
TenguPhule
We’re on to you and your Bile ways. We have walked the bile in your shoes and they are wet and pugnant.
TenguPhule
You can tell because we’ve just passed the ‘you are here’ sign again. Ignore the grooves that the wheels going forward are stuck in.
ThymeZone
That just means we are On Track to Victory, mister Defeatocrat.
Tulkinghorn
But it has done US a tremendous amount of harm. That is the point.
Filthy McNasty
Elites care. You care. The rest of the world pretty much does not care. Sure, it is not good to gloat about his hanging, but hardly anyone regrets him dying the way he did, considering his past.
Saddam is no martyr, that’s for sure. The “fallout” is doubtful to come. The world is much better off because despots like Saddam know that there’s a rope waiting for them.
Filthy McNasty
A tremendous amount of harm? How, exactly? We’re experiencing a bunch elitists pouting about Saddam’s execution, the hanging was done by Iraqis in an act of self-determination, and the new head of the U.N. didn’t even condemn it!
Again, what “tremendous harm” is there? Unless of course you tend to see tremendous harm everywhere you look.
TenguPhule
Shorter Filthy McNasty: I don’t care and neither do my friends. Obviously nobody else will care in the world because we don’t. Why don’t they show the schools being painted instead of angry Sunni?
Right, just like there is ‘no insurgency’ for six months before there is.
So when are you going to step up and call for Bush’s Lynching? Or does this rule of yours only apply to Arab dictators?
TenguPhule
The lynching was done by Shiite militiamen, the Sunni are up in arms about it and the new head of the UN is exactly the kind of weak-kneed apologists the right oh so loves to complain about.
The harm is not that hard to figure out. You’ve pushed 20% of Iraq’s population into *FULL* support of the Iraqi Sunni Guerillas instead of the fencesitting/closed eyes policy they were taking before. There is a difference between passive support and active participation…and we’re about to learn that the hard way in Iraq…again.
ThymeZone
Really? Name two. Name two despots who now think there’s “a rope waiting for them” thanks to the execution of Saddam.
And show your work …. what makes you think this?
ThymeZone
Oh …. and George Bush can’t be one of them.
demimondian
Hmm. I must need new glasses. I could have sworn it said “Why are you here?”
TenguPhule
Dick Cheney and Tony Blair. :P
ThymeZone
George W. Bush, Jan 3 2007
Okay, is there any doubt anywhere? These guys are just fucking with us.
This waste of human cells waits until today, of all days, to decry earmarks and press for a line item veto? After having a Republican congress for all these years?
HyperIon
and *i* doubt that it will do anything to change the cycle of reprisals. it merely puts more wood on the revenge fire.
ya know, i didn’t need jesus to tell me than an-eye-for-an-eye approach is fundamentally flawed.
Dr. Bill Frist
For a better balance, try here
Pooh
I actually agree with this – it’s not going to make anything worse aside from the glaring missed opportunity to possibly make things better, see, e.g., Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Steve
This is a truly classic insight into that laughable construct they call the conservative mind.
Yeah, they’re all quaking in their boots. For some reason, they were dissuaded from becoming tyrants by seeing what happened to Hitler, or Mussolini, or any of the others, but now it’s settled with certainty that all tyrants will be hung.
Did you ever notice how scared Iran has been, ever since we showed we were willing to kick ass in Iraq? How they’ve deliberately ratched down their inflammatory rhetoric, now that we decapitated the regime right next door? Oh, wait, they haven’t done anything of the sort? How odd. Fortunately, as a conservative, you don’t need to actually fit empirical evidence into your simpleminded theories. All we need to do is make everyone afraid of the US, and it all comes up roses, right?
You probably believe we scared Libya straight, don’t you? Sad.
ThymeZone
Uh huh ….
Pooh
TZ,
I don’t think they really need any more incentive is my point. They are already angrily killing people in the streets, and in response, they will angrily kill people in the streets. Not good of course.
Similarly, it’s not like the rest of the world thought there was any legitimacy to what we are doing. This status wasn’t worsened, merely reconfirmed.
Pooh
And in case I’m not being clear, or haven’t been in the past, I still think it was both wrong and stupid to do it the way it was done.
Steve
This is the amorphous “they” that always gets the other guys in trouble.
TenguPhule
Bush looks forward to lining vetos up against stem cell research funding.
ThymeZone
American position: Execution? What execution? We had nothing to do with it.
After six years of hyena government, we know this:
When you see American officials running away from something, you can be sure of two things:
1) They had everything to do with it, and
2) It’s a collossal fuckup.
Hmm, I think we’ve already seen this movie ….
TenguPhule
Corrected.
TenguPhule
Hey, I just noticed. The first thread of the New Year to reach over 100 posts and not be Darrelled!
Break out the beer and pretzels!
ThymeZone
The Dawn of a New Era? The Era of a New Dawn?
Or is Darrell just getting a colonoscopy today, and tomorrow he’ll be here to take it out on us?
ThymeZone
Sorry, just a figure of speech ….
Pb
Joel,
Yes, I refuted and exposed your sloppy non-reasoning. Twice. And if you honestly can’t figure it out by now, then you’re way more of an idiot than I expected. So I’m going to give you some credit here and stick you in the ‘horribly poor troll’ category. Don’t expect to hear from me again, cheers!
Bile is in the eye of the beholder?
If that had been your argument, then you could have just said that. However–moral bankruptcy noted.
Check.
Saddam was actually a bit better than that, even–Kim Jong-Il would be a more apt parallel.
Sigh. See above. Like I said the first time, your moral bankruptcy is noted. Just because X goal is achieved doesn’t make Y means ok. Unless you’re ‘Joel’, apparently.
ROFL! It couldn’t possibly have yet, but you’re welcome to provide some at any point in time. However, you’ll have to continue this particular line of idiocy without me.
IHBT, IHL, HAND.
Jimmy Mack
That’s really not fair. He only vetoed embryonic stem cell research, not all stem cell research. I think that’s a mistake on his part, given all of the science but not in such a clear cut way given the promise of adult stem cells as well.
tBone
I think Pooh may be on to something here – if anyone could straighten Iraq out, it’s the Master Chief. Someone call Bungie, stat.
Gus
Hitchens has a hard on for the Kurds, so whatever Talabani believes, he’ll go along with. And Joel, give it up while you’re not too far behind. Your argument is laughable.
Zifnab
Bill Frist doing the Saddam autopsy and George Allen running for reelection?
Zifnab
That’s assuming they didn’t toss out all of Macaca’s stuff.
demimondian
Microsoft owns them now. The Master Chief has been…reassigned…to the 101st Airborne Chair Division–not to be confused with the 101st Fighting Chairborne Division.
Pooh
That smarts. I’d go so far as to say I’ve been pwn3d.
Tengu and TZ, you’ve said the name twice, try to avoid the third, bad things happen.
Tulkinghorn
Of course the elites care, but not in the ‘liberals are a bunch of p*ssies’ way that you mean. The elites I am concerned about are the Saudis, who are no longer even covert in their support for the Sunni insurgency. This botched execution could be the tipping point for all manner of unpleasantness.
At some point the US will be so abhorrent to the Saudi elites that they will be willing to lose a lot of money by starting to sell oil for Euros, not dollars. I think this may have been, indeed, the tipping point for that. If so, we are in for a world of hurt.
GOP4Me et al
George Bush is to Moqtada al-Sadr as Frank Sinatra is to __. [possible hint: Saddam killed Sadr’s dad, and he may have tried to kill Bush’s too.]
GOP4Me et al
But we were rooting for the Muslims in Sarajevo! How can that make sense, if they’re all terrorists? I think my head’s about to explode, here.
I forgot to ask: is that the Memphis in Tennessee, or the one on the Nile in Egypt?
ThymeZone
Either one. Under the Bush Doctrine, geography is no longer recognized as a science.
Zifnab
I imagine the Bush regime (and Rethuglicans in general) are going to receive a marked downturn in campaign contributions from Saudi investors in the future.
Pb
Ok, this is unexpected–I’ve stumbled upon an actual, valid Mussolini / Saddam execution comparison:
And apparently she’s not alone in this, seeing as how the article is titled “Shocked Italy seeks execution ban”.
ThymeZone
That makes me cry.
The intimate relationship with the Saudis has been one of the best things about the Bush era, don’t you think?
What a funny world. One guy tried to kill George’s Daddy and now he’s dead. Another bunch of folks buys Bush’s Daddy and now they’re pissed off.
You gotta wonder what kind of dinner table conversations happened at the Bush house that led to letting Junior play with the Middle East and use live ammunition. I mean, what the hell were they thinking?
JSmith
Have another drink, Christopher.
Still… I, too, deplore the unseemly haste with which the execution of Saddam Hussein was carried out.
They could’ve at least winched him up six inches or so off the floor and let him dangle for a while.
Jonathan
Naah.. Stand him on a block of ice with the rope just barely taut and wait.
Zombie Santa Claus
Anything to keep him out of their hair for 4-8 years, I guess.