I’m not watching, but according to twitter Cain is having a press conference and is completely imploding.
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I’m not watching, but according to twitter Cain is having a press conference and is completely imploding.
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Mustang Bobby
Can you flail and implode at the same time?
Captain Haddock
From what I’ve read, depending on the sources, he is either:
1. Making a complete and total ass of himself.
2. Shining like a white hot beacon of Conservative Truth.
Trainrunner
Atticus Finch gave the intro. The repeated boom-chicka-wow-wow music was unnecessary.
Lolis
It was awful. His habit of referring to himself in the third person is grating.
blahblah
Herman Cain does not recall having this press conference or ever having met Twitter.
Those are baseless accusations, John. Baseless and disturbing.
scav
So? “Our” implosions are better than “Their” implosions.
David Hunt
@Captain Haddock: Those two activities are entirely compatible and often go together.
ruemara
You know, if he would promise to really implode during a republican debate, i would send him a dollar. But he has to do it for real and large enough to take out everyone in the room.
Hal
Forget Hermain Cain. Heavy D is dead! Who cares about Black Walnut when the overweight lover has left this world.
General Stuck
Don’t know why, but i did listen to it on xm. Wince worthy doesn’t do it justice, accusing democrats (the machine) of being behind sending these women out to destroy his campaign
Most dems would thank baby jeevus for making him the GOP candidate. But the most cringe worthy thing to me was his playing the women do it too card for sexual harassment.
David in NY
What, you don’t think that women sexually harass men, more than men do women?
Let’s convene a supercommittee of John Derbyshire, David Brooks and maybe Ross Douthat to settle that one.
kindness
Cain’s 15 minutes got caught up in the Twilight Zone of Daylight Savings Time. Oh Noes!
Bill E Pilgrim
@Captain Haddock: I’ll go with both: making a complete pig of himself, shining like a white hot bacon of conservative truth.
TooManyJens
I just want to know what happened to make him stop blaming Rick Perry and start blaming Democrats.
Quarks
Now, now, John, you know all that stuff on Twitter is just part of the evil Democratic – er, Democrat – machine. Unless the tweets are supporting Cain, in which case, you can believe them completely.
Hal
@General Stuck:
I thought it was Rick Perry’s campaign combined with racism he doesn’t think exists, except when your a black conservative.
Villago Delenda Est
@Lolis:
Bob Dole does not approve.
Quaker in a Basement
Awesome! A new conservative martyr is born!
MikeJ
@Bill E Pilgrim: mmmmm. White hot bacon…..
Davis X. Machina
Can we ignore him yet? Or do we have to wait three years, and then ignore him, like Mrs. Palin?
The Moar You Know
Did he light up a cigarette afterwards?
Short Bus Bully
Shorter Herman Cain: “Bitches, man… Bitches.”
Irving
@Mustang Bobby: Only if you’re a Muppet.
cathyx
Cain is “Still Crazy After All These Years”.
pragmatism
so it appears he was saying that its the “democratic machine’s” fault, though he can’t provide any proof of this. also, too, he doesn’t know the accuser is but she’s a “troubled woman”.
i guess it really is irresponsible not to speculate.
The Other Chuck
I got 999 problems but a b*tch ain’t one.
It’s five.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Lolis:
Bob Dole is not amused that some upstart pizza guy has stolen his trademark.
Brachiator
Cain is a political neophyte, and it shows. While he is trying to defend himself against the charges made by Sharon Bialek, others are coming forward.
Karen Kraushaar, one of the first to settle, is the poster child for credible.
At this point, it is not just Cain’s political career on the line. His entire public life and business career may end up in shreds.
sukabi
@The Other Chuck: now THAT should be on a bumper sticker…
Cat Lady
I wonder what the woman-to-man ratio is these days for Cain – it took about 50 women accusing Juan Williams before the WaPo made him issue his statement. 999 women?
JWL
The question now becomes: has Cain been Borked, or Thomassed?
Don’t kid yourself, either. Ted Kennedy is involved, some how, some way.
Bill E Pilgrim
Hmm, might not even last the week after all.
He imploded last night. Going on a talk show accused of being a misogynist sexual harraser and abuser and demonstrating that he’s not by making crude sexual insults out of the blue about the attorney making the allegations and how he would never pay her for sex — yes, very reassuring Herm.
Martin
In summary:
“I don’t know her. Hell, I’ve never even met a white woman. Do they have brains? I don’t know! I’ll submit to a polygraph if you put me on Mount Rushmore. And this is just part of a Democrat conspiracy to sexually harass me.”
I think it’s going about as well as can be expected.
Villago Delenda Est
@ruemara:
You’re thinking of that incredible scene from Scanners, aren’t you?
Given the comic book nature of this entire affair, I’d think that “kerplode” would be more appropriate…
scav
@JWL: ACORN! I hear they hate Black Walnuts.
rb
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: And George is gettin’ very upset!
sukabi
how long before he blames the asteroid for his f’n presser?
Chuck Butcher
Cain Game just because I actually watched it and the lead in and …
drew42
If women sexually harassing men in the workplace was common, I would have never stopped working at an office.
rb
Paterno is straight LOVING this.
lamh35
@Hal: that’s what I posted on twitter when I heard the news. dude was 44 and has a daughter. Way too young.
Martin
@rb: Nah. That shoe is going to drop hard. It’ll plow right over any Cain news.
Waldo
@Davis X. Machina: I’m thinking the next phase will be deciding who among his GOP rivals will get his endorsement. And that will probably come down to some long limo rides and how each of the candidates responds to one simple question: Do you want the job or not?
My money is on Mitt.
SiubhanDuinne
Sexual harassment itself is never funny; this thread about sexual harassment, OTOH, is just overflowing with win.
Jenny
This is Great News for Paterno!
harlana
how did i know this was going to be an awesomely hilarious comments thread?
Darnell From LA
Is it just me or does anyone else half expect Herman Cain at any minute to say something like:
Or:
sukabi
@Waldo: but do you think he’ll ask right or left hand for the cup o’ nuts?
elftx
Five women…Five Flags behind him….hmmmm!!
harlana
@The Other Chuck:
For the next 24 hours, anyways.
The Dangerman
@drew42:
I’ve been around the block a few times, in a few different work environments, and I’ve never seen anything remotely close to woman to man harassment. Hell, Guys are dogs and would eat that shit up.
The Other Chuck
@The Dangerman:
It happens. But even if it happened half the time (not even remotely close), would that be an iota of an excuse for Cain?
“These accusations are completely false but hey, women do it too!”
Uh huh.
scav
Hell, I haven’t even started drinking but I just had a vision of HC’s grinning head slowly floating past in a star-filled YouTube sky to the strains of “With that mug in the sky like a big pizza pie that’s Amore”
gwangung
@The Dangerman:
Well, they THINK they’d eat that up.
Pretty sure they’d change their tune if it really happened. Sorta like how Republicans change their tune about, say, health care, when it happens to them.
harlana
In deference to the Charlie Pierce piece, would Cain be the proverbial Senatorial Horse, now?
nastybrutishntall
That extra-fatal lady shimmer claims another victim. Herman could be pooping out blood and he would still harass them.
R-Jud
@The Dangerman: I’ve seen it once, where a homophobic woman was constantly asking a gay colleague really disgusting questions about the sex acts he performed with his partner. About ten of us who saw her doing it complained, though, and got her moved elsewhere.
JimPortlandOR
@harlana:
His day job is as a motivational speaker.
Guess that won’t work anymore, but the Koch’s need another full time kocksucker.
Chuck Butcher
@Chuck Butcher:
Cripes I blogwhore here and get more hits in 15min than an entire day. Tnx.
From previous I recognize most of the locations.
RossinDetroit
I think it goes like this:
“You’ve been chosen to fill a long vacant executive slot”
I am a pig. I will go away now. Please stop throwing things.
Bill E Pilgrim
Finally saw some clips, man this guy really is a piece of work.
“Look, I’m a business man, people get in my car and put their head in my crotch all day long. If one of them suddenly objects, how am I supposed to remember what her name was?”
AA+ Bonds
IMAGINE THERE’S NO PIZZAAAAAAA
cincyanon
Herman Caine said he doesn’t need everyone’s vote, he just needs 51%. Is it coincidental that women make up 51% of our population or is he just that confident in his skills as pick-up artist?
AA+ Bonds
@The Dangerman:
Quit while you’re behind
Roger Moore
@drew42:
Spoken like somebody who has never been sexually harassed. We had a serial harasser at my work when I started there, and I still habitually avoid the area where she worked more than a decade after she retired. It’s awful even when it’s just somebody making crude comments; I can’t imagine how bad it would be to be faced with actual unwanted sexual advances backed up with threats.
g
Oh, Lord. On The Hill comments, they’re claiming that Bialek lives in a building owned by/once lived in/near the address of David Axelrod and so……! Conspiracy!
SteveinSC
“Sword of truth strong and pure, fly now that evil fail and good endure!” The NYTimes/Kraushaar truth just flew strong and pure. Just stick a fork in him. He’s done.
AA+ Bonds
TIME Magazine looks to be in the bag for Mitt Romney, by the way.
You heard it here first.
Mino
I’m wondering if his final tally will be 45.
David in NY
Well, he’s no Bill Clinton, let me say that.
My favorite joke from that era:
“Recent poll asked a sample of 1500 women, ‘Would you sleep with Bill Clinton?’
“Eighty-five percent of them answered, ‘Not again.'”
Linda Featheringill
I saw one case of what I would call clear female-on-male sexual harassment. Completely inappropriate in my opinion.
But I sought out the guy a little bit later and asked him how he felt about the goings-on. He said he didn’t mind and wasn’t uncomfortable with it.
John O
I’m quite sure it’s not a lot of fun to be falsely accused of SH, either, though Cain sure smells guilty given his ego, politics, intellect and the nature of the accusations and credentials of the accusers.
The man is a moron and IMO an almost perfect embodiment of today’s GOP. I still don’t think this will hurt him at all as #1 not-Mitt.
BGinCHI
This will only come to an end when Herman Cain sexually harasses himself and is thereafter a victim.
Jenny
Cain was asked whether Medicare should be a defined benefit plan or a voucher system.
He had no idea what defined benefit plan meant.
oy vey.
The Dangerman
@AA+ Bonds:
Didn’t say it never happened; my point was (perhaps poorly made) that it is rare. I stand by the thought that most guys would just laugh it off because, generally speaking, it wouldn’t be threatening to a man.
g
I didn’t see the presser so I can’t say one way or the other, but Daily Kos coverage has a good point – Cain says Bialik is completely making it up, while Cain’s lawyer attacks her memory of the incident. Both things can’t be true – if she’s making it up, it’s not about her memory. If she has something to remember, she’s not making it up.
Brachiator
@David in NY:
This also reminds me of a joke that came out around the time of the movie, Indecent Proposal.
Woman One. Would you have sex with Robert Redford for a million dollars?
Woman Two. Well. Yeah, but it might take me a little time to raise the money.
@John O:
Cain is done. It’s just a question of how he will exit the stage, and how conservative pundits will walk back their support.
scav
cathyx
Most men I know would be flattered if he were sexually harassed and want to meet for drinks after work.
4tehlulz
This is good news for Joe Paterno.
rpl
@Martin: It has already been asked (on TPM) – What would Rick Perry call the Cain image on Rushmore?
David in NY
Can they just vote now? Please? Do we need another two months of this?
xian
there is already a @DemocratMachine twitter account
John O
@Brachiator:
We’ll see for sure, but I try not to overestimate the conservative primary activist. All they’re hearing and reading all day is defense of HC, and most of them will swallow it, if I may.
Bill E Pilgrim
@BGinCHI:
The best part about that is that he’d forget his own name too.
That may be what the referring to himself in the third person is all about, come to think of it. He’s distancing from himself. Smart move, probably.
Steve
A lot of guys seem to think they would actually enjoy woman-on-man rape. “Gee, a woman forcing herself upon me, that actually sounds pretty cool.” In practice, eh, I’m thinking not so much.
PeakVT
@David in NY: That’s two months until the first vote. There will be several more months of torture after that, too. Also.
handsmile
@Jenny: (#73)
“Defined benefit plan’ rhymes with “Ubeki-beki-beki-stan.” Herman didn’t know that one either.
“Gotcha” is something that Herman likes to say to passengers in his car, not the kind of question he prefers to answer.
cokane
It’s all over now for this vanity candidate except for the crying from wingnut voters. Another accuser will speak publicly which will just about seal the deal in the public’s eyes on this issue. I wonder which far-right candidate will take their turn as the new not-Romney front runner.
WaterGirl
@g:
Reminds me of when I was an advocate for women who had been raped. it was not uncommon, when the case went to court, for the defense to argue that it never happened, but if it did happen, it was consensual. I never understood that, either.
RossinDetroit
@Steve:
Especially if “you want a job, don’t you?” is part of the pitch. The power relationship is much more significant than the physical appeal, in the workplace.
WereBear (itouch)
If Herman Cain expects that kind of behavior to get a job…
It puts a whole new light on cigarette smoking man…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@David in NY:
Nope, sorry. This will not end until every Republican of consequence (and several who aren’t) has had their turn being the anybody-but-Mittens flavor of the week (one can only imagine how humiliating this is for Mittens, not that he doesn’t have it coming). Think of it as being like one of those kiddy T-ball leagues where every kid gets a turn at bat.
Ben Cisco
The correct number, of course, would have to be 42.
RossinDetroit
I sorta feel bad for his wife. It’s one thing to be married to a philanderer and another thing when everyone else knows it.
Turgidson
So this sideshow isn’t over yet. Bummer. I’m getting kinda tired of MSNBC (O’Donnell in particular) spending 90% of their time in the evening recounting the day’s events in Cain’s slow-motion spontaneous combustion.
I mean, the guy isn’t really running for president. He may be as surprised to be running this strong as anyone (though he may be arrogant enough to not be surprised). He isn’t going to be president. Deep down I think he knows it. So he’s basically a conservative male grifter who is doing this for the vanity and the potential for pecuniary gain. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that he is also (allegedly) a misogynist creep with a history of deviant treatment of women. Hell, he’s not even the only one in the race (Newt…though his shitty treatment of women is different in nature).
No, wait. I’m not shocked. And I also don’t give a shit about Herman Cain. He doesn’t even amuse me the way some of the shining wingnut stars do at their best. He’s just an unfunny clown who doesn’t realize China has nukes. Why the fuck do we care about him.
Ben Cisco
@Mino: The correct answer, of course, would be 42.
xian
and conservatives will never walk back their support. they will just pull out the playbook that would have followed Palin’s inevitable implosion (the liberal media, politics of personal destruction, this is why we can’t have nice things, etc.)
Karen in GA
@nastybrutishntall: Well, to be fair, there is no maximum strength.
Because everybody needs toucan stubs. (Ricky?)
Omnes Omnibus
@The Dangerman: I was sexually harassed once. Seriously, it sucks. I walked in to an office to do some things for a soldier back when I was in Army, and a whole office full of civilian women started in with “Oooh! What I could do with him….” comments. It was very uncomfortable.
Brachiator
@John O:
Some things transcend politics and the ability of campaign staff and pundits to fix things or make them go away.
cathyx
@RossinDetroit: You shouldn’t. Remember she stayed with him through the sexual harassment settlements. She is as power hungry as he is.
Martin
@cathyx: Not so much. The guys overlook that the harassment typically comes from a position of power. Guys aren’t used to assuming that component. If your female boss was presumably using your job as leverage for drinks/sex/whatever, you’d not take it so easily. There’s a macro component to that position of power, that presumably they can help blacklist you for refusing to go along.
The problem with applying the male stereotype to being a sexual harassment target is that it only works if you throw away all of the other stereotypes of men being in positions of power, women not being in positions of power, men not requiring women to secure a job, and so on. You just can’t selectively toss the stereotypes away in that way and still have it work.
John O
I hope the majority here is right, the man is a complete drop case.
The Republican party is just so…out there nothing would surprise me anymore.
And Another Thing...
@R-Jud: We fired a woman for sexually harassing women who worked for her. She was incredulous, cause only men can do it…. I did the investigation and it was bizarre, the way she behaved & talked about it was the epitome of stereotypical male behaviour.
Omnes Omnibus
@cathyx: If it was flattering and the guy wanted to meet for drinks, it probably wasn’t harassment. The point of something being harassment is that it is unwelcome.
The Other Chuck
@Martin:
Shorter version: It’s not so enjoyable when your job is on the line.
Is that about right?
Bill E Pilgrim
@xian: Moralizing hypocrite-gas giant Bill Bennett has already sort of thrown him under the craps table. More to come, I’m sure. This is too creepy even for them. Some will pull support and yet still blame the media, of course, but they will pull it and he’ll have to stop the campaign.
Martin
@And Another Thing…:
Does that help?
cathyx
@Martin: I agree with that. I was more thinking of a coworker who doesn’t have power over him.
David in NY
@PeakVT:
I’m assuming some fast fall-out in the first month or so – resulting in the demise of everybody but Mitt and a couple of others. I will be more than pleased if after that there results a prolonged period of trench warfare going right up to the convention. But a few votes will simplify this stuff a lot (by ending Cain’s candidacy, I bet, but who can be sure?).
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I see what you did there.
Bill Bennett knows that you have to known when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to walk away, and know when to run…
David in NY
@WaterGirl:
I’ve known people who didn’t get jobs in a criminal law office for suggesting that kind of thing as a defense strategy during their interview.
WereBear (itouch)
Some guys think it would be great to be “sexually harassed” but they never imagine a situation where the boss, a female twice their age and not attractive to them, comes out and tells them they want to see them wearing a thong fo work or they’re fired.
Jenny
NYT: No Mo Jo Pa
Omnes Omnibus
@cathyx: It can still create a hostile work environment. Don’t assume all or even most men are pigs.
srv
Bill Dailey, under the bus.
Martin
@The Other Chuck:
But that’s pretty much part-and-parcel of harassement. Either the person has power over your job, or you feel you need to leave the job to get away from the harassment. Either way, it’s power being exerted over you, even if the person is in a lower or peer position to you.
JGabriel
Herman Cain @ Press Conference:
Yes, well, I think that’s something we can all agree on.
.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Ah feel yer pain, Mr. Cain!
.
.
Moonbatting Average
@xian: So awesome. Yet another example of the snark becoming self aware
Jay in Oregon
/facepalm
https://twitter.com/#!/BorowitzReport/status/134031886698811393
Jenny
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Let’s be honest. It’s was about the blonde white women.
That fat slob Bennett loves Clarance Thomas and he’s just as bad. The difference was Clarance was harassing black women.
sukabi
@xian: their tweets are pretty funny….
DemocratMachine
@DemocratMachine DemocratMachine
We will soon have a press conference with all the women Herman Cain sexually harassed. We will hold it at Mile High Stadium. #cainwreck
Omnes Omnibus
OT: See ya, Silvio.
sukabi
@Jay in Oregon: well that’s pretty hard to swallow.
Villago Delenda Est
@Martin:
Yup.
It’s about the power differential. It’s a means of establishing dominance. A lot of bullshit in the workplace is people in supervisory positions who secretly believe that they don’t belong there, and use dominance games to build up their own egos.
MikeJ
@Jenny: Call me, Harold!
karen marie
@cathyx: Not necessarily. Who knows how much she knew about any of it. Her complete absence from the campaign would also contraindicate your assumption.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jenny:
I am afraid it boils down to this.
Cain crossed a frontier that black men simply cannot cross in the eyes of much of the Rethug base (and leadership, for that matter).
David in NY
@Martin:
I think that’s a good summary.
And people don’t realize the degree of non-touching harassment that goes on. My wife’s office represented a young woman who left her job in a financial firm (about the time of Herman’s little adventures). She worked maybe on a trading desk or in some other such testosterone-laden area. The complaint alleged that the guys working with her did stuff like, when she got up from her chair to do something, they’d run over to it and sniff the seat. The settlement amount made the ones in Herman’s case look like peanuts.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I am going to predict that the final surprise in this primary is when it comes out Mitt Rommeny was sexually by a female coworker when he was CEO of Bain Capital. That will just complete the theater of the absurd the GOP primary has become.
scav
These allegations of a democratic machine that apparently is making use of Repub media etc. could lead to a very interesting rest of the (Three-ring) season. They’re already nearly at each other’s throats for the purer than though reasons. “Are you now or have you ever been a card-carrying?” questions soon followed by lists of 205 known . . . being waved about.
The Dangerman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Uncomfortable I can understand, but does that rise to harassment? I don’t know.
Since I’m not married, I’ve been hit on more than once by someone of the wrong sex (from my perspective anyway); it was uncomfortable, but, I never felt threatened. Indeed, looking back, I took these advances as compliments, though uncomfortable at the time, sure.
trollhattan
@Jenny:
Good. It’s been infuriating, if not surprising, listening to the many, many Paterno apologists the last day.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
And that the harasser isn’t necessarily somebody desirable. I think that most men when they’re thinking about it are imagining being targeted by women they’re interested in. It’s very different when it’s somebody who you have absolutely no interest in and who refuses to accept that you don’t find their attention flattering. Being chased for a change may be fun when you want to be caught, but not when you’re just trying to escape and can’t.
JGabriel
@sukabi:
That’s what she said!
.
David in NY
@karen marie: It would be a real shame if Mrs. Cain is just learning about this stuff. I’m inclined to think women know, but I actually have no evidence one way or the other. Or, on second thought, I do, having known women who really got surprised.
Chris
@The Other Chuck:
I’d just say “it’s not so enjoyable in real life as opposed to in fantasies.”
I mean hell, if I got to pick the woman that sexually harassed me, if she didn’t ask me to do anything I didn’t already want and if there were no repercussions outside of the bedroom (e.g. the career thing), I suppose I would enjoy it. And heck, I imagine if a lot of women would too. It’s just that real life isn’t usually as convenient.
JGabriel
@Villago Delenda Est:
The Blonde Frontier?
.
karen marie
@srv: Why “under the bus”? Apparently he is not well liked and not effective.
gogol's wife
@The Dangerman:
No, you’re wrong. You should see the film “Female” from 1933, in which the female boss harasses her male employees. Even back then it was clear that men do not enjoy that kind of thing. Still true.
WaterGirl
@David in NY: Interesting! I saw that happen more than once in the few cases I was involved in. All I could do is wonder,,, just how stupid did they think everyone was?
And Another Thing...
@Martin: I take your point, but I said “stereotypical male “for a reason. The incident was several years ago, and our outside counsel said there was no case law supporting the notion that same sex harassment was a violation of the law. There were so few women in management, much less in powerful positions, that females doing the harassing were extremely rare.
The Other Chuck
@WaterGirl:
Nothing creates the feeling of reasonable doubt quite like cognitive dissonance.
WaterGirl
@Jay in Oregon: That’s Andy Borowitz. That was humor.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Dangerman: 1) What the fuck do you think harassment is? 2) I was using understatement. I was cringeingly embarrassed and mortified to be standing in a room with about 20 women basically shouting sexual innuendo at me. I was not in a position to leave because my soldier needed to have that paperwork done or he would lose an apartment. So I had to stand there. Don’t assume harassment must constitute “Suck this or you lose your job.”
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris:
That’s pretty much the thing.
The fantasy of say, Halle Berry having her way with you as your boss is one thing.
Reality is something totally different. Like Halle Berry is going to give us the slightest glance.
trollhattan
Dear lord, TBogg found some delicious winger infighting on l’affaire Cain.
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2011/11/08/first-win-then-do-the-right-thing/
Djur
@cathyx: It’s not sexual harassment if someone comes on to you and (a) you welcome it and/or (b) you could tell them to stop and (b.i) they would stop and (b.ii) it would not put you at any risk.
Here’s a hypothetical. I’m male. I’m at work, in the kitchen. I drop something on the floor and bend over to pick it up. Someone behind me says something along the lines of “awww yeah, I’d like a piece of that.” (I said it was a hypothetical, didn’t I?)
Now, I turn around. I see it’s…
… the cute girl that works down the hall who I’ve always had an eye on. Knowing myself, I’d blush and babble a little, but it wouldn’t be sexual harassment.
… the CEO, who is a man twice my age. That’s sexual harassment, because (a) it’s unwelcome and (b) I can’t ask him not to do that without some reasonable fear of losing my job, not getting a raise, etc.
… my direct supervisor, who is an attractive older woman. Now, that might be welcome, but it’s still sexual harassment, because the fears in (b) above are still present.
In all of those cases, it’s still inappropriate workplace behavior. Workplaces tend to have broader policies than just covering actionable sexual harassment, because in a lot of cases harassment is (legitimately) in the eye of the beholder.
Finally: I’ve known at least one man who’s been sexually harassed by an attractive female coworker. He was married, she wouldn’t take no for an answer, and it was genuinely a problem. There are a lot of men and women who take pleasure in intentionally violating another person’s boundaries.
David in NY
@WaterGirl:
Presenting inconsistent defenses is thought to be bad form, not to say suicidal form, in the more professional reaches of the defense bar. There are, however, a lot of lawyers out there with terrible judgment. (And in rape cases with clients unwilling to plead; it is still not good, however, just to imagine that more defenses are better.)
Villago Delenda Est
Oooh….banner ad on the page…”Get the truth about Herman Cain”!
As seen through the eyes of Daffy Duck, perhaps…
Martin
@The Dangerman:
In California it does. If its unwanted, you’re over the line. ‘Hostile workplace’ is the term more commonly used here. Can apply to any interaction. Male/female, straight/gay, black/white. It doesn’t even need to be directed. If watching NSFW content on your iPhone at work makes others uncomfortable, even if not directed at the others in the office, you’re over the line.
Other states have different standards. CA actually expanded the rules far enough that it makes them simpler rather than more complicated by not having categories for what is disallowed. Everything considered hostile to the workplace is disallowed. Full stop.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@pragmatism: It worked for C. Thomas.
Djur
@Chris: Yeah, it’s not like it’s unheard of for women to be attracted to their bosses. It’s still potential sexual harassment for a boss to make a pass at a subordinate, period.
The Other Chuck
Harrassment is when either are true of a) There is a pattern of behavior in violation of the other party’s communicated desire that it stop, or b) An express or implied quid pro quo.
The “hostile workplace environment” is a charge against _management_, in that by allowing it to continue, they are establishing a pattern of behavior. A single incident does not a “hostile environment” claim make, but management cracks down on them anyway because they can’t be seen as letting it become a pattern.
trollhattan
@Djur:
Right, and smart organizations go further and make even consensual relationships between supervisors and subordinates against their codes of conduct.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Jenny: Probably a lot of truth in that. The Thomas hearings were also a long time ago, I doubt even he’d get away so easy these days, but I guess we’ll never know. Also once they defended him all the way and put him on the bench, they have to double down. But yes, the whiteness and blondeness isn’t helping Herm, nope. Nor the Republicanness.
Sly
@David in NY:
File my answer under “Holy fuck, more please!” The abject pleasure of walking up to my conservative friends and in-laws and asking, “Are you seriously going to vote for any of these jackasses?” has been like every day being my birthday.
We’re not even midway through this clown car joyride, and it’s only gotten better and better so far. Bachmann flaming out. Gingrich demonstrating twenty four hours a day what an egomaniacal moron he really is (“who needs to raise money and actually campaign? I’ll just ‘wow’ everyone with my undeniable brilliance at these very serious debates!”). The blundering, blubbering Texas shitstain known as Goodhair Perry put on universal display. Everyone talking about how much they don’t like Mitt Romney. And now Herman “Nine… nine… nine dollar footlongs!” Cain.
Who is gonna be kicked out of the circus tent next? NOBODY KNOWS! Place your bets!
Odie Hugh Manatee
The Republicans are acting like survivors of a ship sinking. One guy (The Mittster) is on a big chunk of debris, floating somewhat safely above the water. The rest of the candidates are in the water with the wingnuts first climbing on one and then jumping off of them when they inevitably sink. The wingnuts are desperately casting about for a safe place to go and ignoring the one guy who is floating on the lone piece of debris.
They would rather drown then climb up on that piece of debris with The Mittster.
EricKKK, Son of EricKKK, is lamenting the inevitability of a Mittster primary win and the destruction of his party. Others at RedState are becoming more accepting of the inevitability of a Mitt run. Parry supporters there are pissed that he isn’t being taken seriously.
And the general consensus there is that Cain is finished. I have to hand it to Cain, he has fucked up the right in ways that the Democrats could only dream about.
Thanks Hermie!
Villago Delenda Est
@trollhattan:
That’s true in the military. If the individuals are in the same chain of command, it’s just not done. In some branches, like the Marines, officer/enlisted is just off the reservation entirely. The Army is a bit more relaxed about that, so long as the individuals are not in the same chain of command, but there’s always a problem with that sort of thing.
gelfling545
@The Dangerman: And when you indicated you were not interested did the “hitting on” stop? Imagine it day after day for months.
techno
I have a friend who is a horn-dog like Cain. He is a trust-fund child so has a lot of spare time. He is also incredibly handsome. When he is not having sex, he is conspiring to have sex. Or as he put it once, “There are only two things in life—sex and foreplay.”
Based on this sample size of one, I am guessing that if Cain has already had five women come forth to accuse him, there are a BUNCH more where they come from. Guys like Cain make sexual advances on women several times a DAY. They don’t quit until they are reasonably certain they don’t have to go to bed by themselves.
dlnelson
Can American voters be this dumb. He is a creep, just look at him, Bill Clinton and his group (James Carville) were a bit creepy as well. All of these old senators and reps, are way too old to properly represent the new generation. This country has changed. I live in California, if the agricultural part of this state leaves, we are toast. Herman C. is part of the problem of the old folks, they live in the old days, someone of power and money, but it turns out, that not even the republican women who are blond and blue eyed appreciated his advances. They are willing to forgive, the drumbeat to steal from the government (taxpayers) to private sector continues. Public schools, etc. They are trying to change the electoral vote. It is a big problem. I am worried.
karen marie
@David in NY: She may have sort of known but it wouldn’t be surprising that she simply didn’t want to know and accepted whatever her husband told her. They’ve been married for 43 years.
She stayed home while he went out and played Bidnez Man.
Makes sense to me that he would be inappropriately hitting on women. He spent a lot of time away from his wife.
Also too, how smart can the Koch brothers really be if they employ Mark Block in any capacity? As well, also, too, what do you suppose Block was doing for employment between 1991 and today? The last campaign he worked on, in 1997, resulted in his agreeing to a fine of $15,000 in 2001 and staying out of campaigns until 2004. He resurfaces in 2007 engaging in dubious election practices on behalf of Americans for Prosperity.
I’m just kicking myself up and down, up and down. Why didn’t I get into that kind of lucrative career path?
Jay in Oregon
@trollhattan:
I loved this snippet from the quoted article over at TBogg:
Because everyone knows that morals are only virtues as long as you don’t let them get in the way of what you really want.
Omnes Omnibus
@karen marie:
Conscience. Ethics. Possessing a soul. Not being evil. Need I go on?
SiubhanDuinne
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Ooh, ooh, ooh! What you did there! I saw it!
Villago Delenda Est
@karen marie:
You have scruples?
sukabi
@Jay in Oregon: pretty sure her definition of ‘morality’ differs from ours.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne:
“Craps table” works a bit better as an image than “under the nickle slots”
karen marie
@Omnes Omnibus, @Villago Delenda Est: : I’m starting to think that shit’s overrated.
Caz
He’s not imploding, lol. You all WISH he was imploding. There are BS reports that he sexually harrassed women 20 years ago. Whenever a GOP’er gets to the front of the pack, his opponents (R’s and D’s alike) break out all the stops to try and bring him down.
His approval ratings haven’t moved down, and most people realize the allegations are BS. That is, everyone except this echo chamber that is willing to believe anything they hear if it might hurt Cain.
In reality, there is no implosion. On Buffoon-Juice, it’s a major implosion. This is the detachment from reality that you all live in in this echo chamber. Dream on, juicetards.
gbear
@Jenny: Jezus, did you see the last lines of that NYT article? Wow.
xian
@trollhattan: I like the unintentional tell in the reference to “our journalists.”
Lockewasright
@Captain Haddock: Alas, they’re one in the same.
lol
@scav:
Someone should mashup the Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy trailer with the GOP field.
Ksmiami
Omg the entire GOP lineup is like a festering gangrenous sore and truly vomit inducing! Obama 2012: at least he doesn’t make people throw up
xian
@Caz: keep on fuckin’ that chicken.
my fondest wish would be an Obama vs. Cain election and the greatest part is you’ll never believe me. You think we are secretly afraid of Cain. Please Brer Caz, please don’t throw us in that briar patch.
Lockewasright
@MikeJ: There is nothing upon which bacon cannot improve.
PhoenixRising
@Chris:
Dude, IF all that, it’s no longer the training video titled “What Not to Do at Work”, it’s now “How Your Mother & I Met”.
Under the set of conditions you’re proposing, it’s not called harassment, it’s called dating someone you met at work. Which is in fact how I met my child’s mother…and is quite different from harassment.
Villago Delenda Est
@xian:
Really. What xian just said.
Puhleeze give us Cain in the general, Rethugs. A defeat will turn into a sound thrashing of epic proportions if you nominate Cain.
Furthermore, race will be off the table, and it will be the ideologies in play, and that is guaranteed lose for the GOP. The Allan Keyes thrashing by Obama in 2004 comes to mind…
Omnes Omnibus
@PhoenixRising: Most people on the receiving end of the attention can tell the difference between flirting – even if awkward and/or aggressive – and harassment – even if it is couched in compliments.
PhoenixRising
Right, my point was that in his hypothetical he’s not being harassed anymore, he’s now schtupping a hot chick he met through work.
Not that whether it’s harassment is a function of any particular combo of gender(s), job roles or perceived attractiveness of either party–because that’s not what he’s suggesting.
scav
@lol: I actually tried working one up and got stuck but what if we go with
Finker: Newt
Flailer / Failer / Failure: Mittens? Overabundance of choices here.
Folder: Bachman although a case could be made for Mittens
Fly: obviously Cain.
gogol's wife
@Ksmiami:
I like it!
Samara Morgan
dont have time to read the whole thread, but…..
White Woman Number Two.
Also blonde.
Samara Morgan
see a pattern?
Bill
There’s an Eagle’s song in here somewhere.
Take it easy, Herman.
Chris
According to Gallup, his image is in fact declining. Interesting, I didn’t think I had it in them.
xian
@Villago Delenda Est: can you imagine the debates?
dmsilev
@xian: The Obama/Keyes debates were televised (probably available on YouTube somewhere), and the amount of sheer bullshit per second emanating from Keyes was awe-inspiring. An Obama/Cain debate would, I think, be at about the same level.
Seonachan
Fucking brain, how does it work?
sukabi
@Chris: what’s that scale go to? if it’s a scale from 1 to 100 none of the R’s are faring very well Cain’s still leading the pack at a whopping 24 while the rest are in the mid to low teens or single digits….
Mark S.
Herman’s claiming he doesn’t even know who she is? Dude, not a good move.
So, anyone want to place bets on who lasts longer, Cain or Paterno?
DanielX
@Ksmiami: Unfortunately, “we don’t suck as much as those other guys suck” is not exactly a campaign slogan full of WIN. I don’t think you’re wrong, it just….falls flat.
burnspbesq
@The Dangerman:
You haven’t lived until you’ve lived through a male senior manager who is sleeping with a female partner getting made partner over the heads of three arguably better qualified female senior managers, one of whom was out on maternity leave at the time. Meltdown? No, supernova is a more accurate description. All five of them were “pursuing other opportunities” within 45 days. Some voluntarily, some less so. When a partner with $5 million in portable business is forced out of a professional services firm, it’s safe to assume that there was more shit than there were fans for it to hit.
suzanne
I’ve been sexually harassed at work three separate times. It fucking sucks.
One of my ongoing issues of conscience is how to talk about it when the inevitable question arises in the interview.
Interviewer: “How was your work experience at XYZ architects?”
Me: “Um. Great. Except for I was sexually harassed by a superior beginning the first week I was there and it didn’t end until I left my internship. And I reported it, but the principal architect slept with last summer’s intern, so all the dudes there thought it was okay.”
Interviewer: ***crickets***
Omnes Omnibus
@suzanne: Describe the internship as a “real learning experience” or a “fantastic opportunity to learn from the inside” or words to that effect. What you learned can be left unsaid.
300baud
@Sly:
What a lovely post. I laughed all the way through. Clearly, I need to start asking this question myself.
mclaren
Sorry, John, you’ll have to narrow it down. Are you referring to his previous press conference, or the one last week, or…?
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: Wasn’t that better than if they had made disparaging comments about you?
I can see that you would have wished them to remain silent & not say anything. However, the comments, while crude, were basically complimentary to your ‘assets’.