The unsurprising fact that a 10 year-old girl was raped and had to get an abortion — something that those of use who inhabit the real world and have had real life experiences accepted at face value when it was reported by a reputable media outlet — is really putting the Christofascists and their enablers into overdrive. Latest example:
The always awful “fact checker” Glenn Kessler’s inability to understand that 52 girls 15 and under getting abortions in Ohio means, on average, it happens once a week, and, yeah, one of more of them is going to be 10. Glenn at least published a weak ass addition (not really a “correction”) to that column once the rapist was charged. Gym Jordan just deleted his tweet. And of course the fascist Indiana AG is going to investigate the doctor who did the abortion and makes sure to name her so we can have another Tiller to feed to the nutjobs with guns. And did you know that the rapist is an “illegal immigrant” (maybe, who cares, not the people making the charge, certainly.)
They do this for two reasons: First, they know they’re in political trouble because their anti-abortion stance is morally disgusting and extremely unpopular. Second, it works.
JaneE
I wonder how many of the anti-abortion zealots who voted for this law have children or grandchildren who are 9 or 10 years old. Would they really want to live with their own going through a pregnancy at 10?
HumboldtBlue
This is worth a read:
Also, I learned something new today.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Part of the problem here is that none of this is defined. Is ending an ectopic pregnancy an abortion? Who will decide? Based on what standards? In the meantime, how are doctors, patients, courts etc to function?
Of course, the oppressive laws are the real problem. The above is just details.
bbleh
Second, it works.
Well, perhaps for those who want to believe it, such as the heads-so-far-up-their-asses-they-can-see-out-their-mouths-and-think-everything-is-fine MAGA idiots, and the “reporters” and columnists who are so desperate for meat for the bothsides grill that they’ll take anything they’re handed (preferably already properly formatted so it can just be dropped into an article). And both in turn can influence the Truly Ignorant. But the same is true of, I dunno, the COVID-as-a-bioweapon nonsense. Just because there are people desperate to believe it doesn’t mean it “works” to any significant degree.
trollhattan
Shape of things to come.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/14/anti-abotion-10-year-old-ohio-00045843
gene108
I don’t think Americans will ever agree on anything again. 9/11/01 was the last time everyone was like “this is bad”, and I don’t think that kind of unity will happen again.
Bush & Co. moved to use it to invade Iraq and coupled with their with us or against rhetoric started this deep political division we have now. Then President Obama got elected and broke something in the brains of many Americans.
People can’t a agree a ten year old getting raped and pregnant is bad. Republicans had to try to deflect this.
I try to keep hope alive, but I’m not sure most Americans see the extent of the danger Republicans pose. They want to repeal everything possible that Democrats did.
http://chirblog.org/fire-back-federal-court-mothers-day-another-challenge-aca-puts-access-preventive-services-risk/
Spanky
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
A problem for some, an opportunity for others!
Follow the money.
bbleh
@JaneE: Oh but you see their children/grandchildren are good children who would never have something like this happen to them! And since in fact it happens to only a very small percentage of children, it will not affect the large majority of them, and they will feel fully vindicated in their beliefs.
(And in the awful case it does, I’d give it even odds that they’d come up with some reason that the child, or her parents, actually were bad and had been hiding it all along, and they’d airbrush them right out of their minds, as well as their address books.)
HumboldtBlue
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Here’s the forced-birthers take:
RaflW
Glen Kessler really f**ked up with his ‘fact check’ of the abortion story (it was originally published before the facts had been reported anywhere beyond the Indy Star).
My question, cribbed from Magdi Semaru: Why the god damned hell did Kessler think a doctor who spoke _on the record_ with her name attached, to a reputable city newspaper with copy, assigning and managing editors might be making up a story?
Fucking arrogant, east coast elitist horseshit. Also super-duper Republican of him.
Paul in KY
@JaneE: Get your point, and it is valid, but alot of these nuts are incels, so no kids/grandkids for them (thank God)!
scav
@trollhattan: The benefits of bearing a child at 10.
WHO
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: Why oh why would we want the offspring of a raping fiend to be in our society?!
kindness
The WaPo’s Glenn Kessler isn’t stupid as much as he plays dumb as hell, intent to not see the forest for the trees. I have to believe he’s delivering up a contrarian act that he thinks works for him. The WaPo is changing and I (a digital subscriber) am not happy with where it seems to want to go.
Paul in KY
@bbleh: They will get them on a flight to some civilized nation and have that abortion done pronto. I can assure you of that.
Betty Cracker
As you mentioned, the fascist Indiana AG Todd Rokita went on Fox News last night to gin up outrage against the doctor who provided care to the traumatized child. The Fox host was creepy O’Reilly apprentice Jesse Watters, whose master goaded an anti-choice nut into murdering Dr. Tiller. Watters not only named the doctor, he flashed her photo on screen, making it easier for a murderous anti-choice nutjob to target her.
FelonyGovt
@trollhattan: I’m spitting mad at these male legislators who can never be pregnant and have NO FUCKING IDEA how disruptive (and potentially dangerous) it is to a woman, her body and her life. And to impose this on a LITTLE GIRL is just the icing on the cake.
RaflW
IF we can’t win against this sort of utterly reckless garbage this fall, then I have no idea what this country is or contains:
The pro-dead-mothers party. They have to lose.
Scout211
We’ve had, what, 5 posts on this subject, some front-paged and some in the comments and I am here to tell you that I approve 100%.
This tragic young girl’s story and the resultant smear campaign by the right wing media and the horrible reporting by the traditional media needs to stay a viral story. There will be more of these tragic stories and I hope all the personal stories continue to make the anti-abortion lawmakers squirm. I know they won’t feel remorse or responsibility but at the very least, question themselves about the political liability.
I hope this and future personal stories stay viral and more news organizations take stock of their lopsided reporting in the name of balance.
Carry on jackals.
Old Man Shadow
Frankly, it would not surprise me to see these monsters picketing and yelling outside of the little girl’s house or doxxing her parents and harassing them. There is no bottom to their ugliness.
danielx
@Betty Cracker:
Ah yes, creepy ass Jesse Watters, who let the air out of someone’s tires to have an excuse to offer her a ride…
gene108
@Paul in KY:
The God-botherers in state legislatures are mostly married with kids and grandkids.
Edit: I don’t think most incels are terribly religious
Joe Falco
@RaflW:
I do. It contains a lot of monsters that wear human suits.
trollhattan
@FelonyGovt: My kid at grade four was a teeny tiny thing, as were nearly all her friends. Taking a pregnancy full term? Utterly unthinkable from a physical standpoint, much less the lifelong psychological trauma to follow.
Imagining the nurse handing the (2-pound?) newborn to the 11 year old mom, “Best of luck, what are you going to name her?”
Gotta be Ariel, I guess.
ian
@trollhattan: That lawyer is full of shit. Abortion is still legal in Indiana
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/14/indiana-investigates-doctor-who-helped-10-year-old-rape-victim-obtain-abortion—even-though-its-still-legal-there/?sh=509c45106b7e
Paul in KY
@RaflW: I think they are running scared. Have to get all their forced birth nuts to the polls (and I mean ALL of them). If their internal polling is pointing to that, then that has to be good for us.
Paul in KY
@gene108: Good point, unfortunately.
HumboldtBlue
My god, this fucking country absolutely despises women.
gratuitous
Hmmm. Before Dobbs, one girl 15 years of age or under turned up pregnant in Ohio on an average of once a week. Right in that time frame, a 10-year-old girl turns up pregnant. The cruel people pursuing this lethal agenda are just shocked that such a thing could possibly happen! Don’t those little girls appreciate for even one minute how badly their rape reflects on the Court’s majority and the people who spent decades installing it?
Baud
@Old Man Shadow:
We need to expand the Supreme Court and put them on it. That’ll put a stop the the protest.
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: It’s an absolutely monstrous idea, as any person who’s ever seen a 10-year-old girl should know. If Republicans have problems visualizing what a 10-year-old looks like, they can think of the children gunned down by that teenage nut with an AR-15 in Texas, facilitated by Republican gun fetishization. Those kids were around that age.
Scout211
@scav
This is crazy. Can we start saying that forced birth in children is a form of child abuse by the state, because it sure looks that way to me.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Inverse Florida man
Barbara
Glenn Kessler is, at best, a moron, at worst a willfully dishonest hack whose mission is to show that everyone is equally bad through various techniques, such as, characterizing opinion statements as facts, or pretending that inaccurate statements about itty bitty details are as bad as bald faced lies about facts of substantive importance. It’s something like the following: The claim that “Democrats care about health care because they passed the ACA” — is considered to be dishonest because it neglects to note that not all Democrats voted for it, notwithstanding that no Republican ever voted for its passage. I mean, anyone with the temerity call himself a fact checker is quite likely to be a blowhard, but Kessler has so consistently proved the dishonesty of his enterprise that I NEVER read him.
Roger Moore
@ian:
But he’s proposing a law that would make it illegal. That’s what he means when he says “under my law”.
lollipopguild
@Baud: One guess as to how the Supreme 6 would rule on this.
Captain C
@trollhattan:
At this point I suspect anyone who holds this sort of view has a disgusting ulterior motive. It would be irresponsible not to, no?
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
They’ve already shown they DGAF is those kids are mass murdered; why do you think they’ll give a damn if they’re raped and forced to carry their rapist’s child to term?
cmorenc
@JaneE:
They don’t imagine their own teenage daughter, let alone pubescent 10yo having sex, let alone getting pregnant. Just like many RWers can’t imagine their own teenage son or daughter turning out to be gay. The laws are to punish sinners rather than the righteous in their view, considering themselves to be among the righteous, despite a cornerstone of their Evangelical Christian religious beliefs being that humans are inherently sinners needing Christ’s forgiveness and grace.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Ah, the Satanists have responded to the Satan-signal going up and have sprung into action, I see.
HinTN
@bbleh:
There’s a tagline.
Jeffro
I have absolutely no idea what metaphor or example would get across to these people that a) they’re monsters and b) they would NEVER, EVER ‘have the child’ if positions were reversed.
Not even if it was their 10-year-old grandkid or kid.
Not even if the rapist was a POC or immigrant (or a Democrat! whoa)
Not even if it was their girlfriend, wife, sister, or mom who was raped.
Not even if they tried reeeeeeally hard what it might feel like to be sexually assaulted (at any age)…and then be forced to carry your assailant’s seed within you to term…and then what, share custody of the kid? Keep seeing him, every other weekend, for eighteen years?
Nope – no matter what we might say to them, it’s just more of that blessed “consistency”, that no-exceptions black-and-white mindset that leads them straight into Monsterville.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@HumboldtBlue: This strikes close to home for me.
My sister was separated from her husband, and happened to spot him buying a gun shortly before he requested a one-on-one meeting. She was convinced he intended to kill her. When she declined the meeting, he killed himself instead.
Yes, suddenly buying a gun when having marital trouble is a bad sign, Mr. Judge.
HumboldtBlue
Dr. Bernard has released a statement.
narya
@Baud: I’ve been waiting/hoping/wishing for something like this. I want to see Wiccan celebrations at midfield, too.
HumboldtBlue
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Christ.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Ha, Broward County! They might agree to it.
bbleh
@Paul in KY: Oh her parents would, no doubt. And then they’d also have to find a new church, and a bunch of new friends, maybe sell their house … hell, might as well just move to the civilized country (or state). Because, you see, they would be at least partially responsible for the immoral behavior of the child that caused … uh … what happened, as all their (former) friends would know perfectly well.
The Moar You Know
@Baud: unfortunately, I can see this going to the Supreme Religious Council Court and getting a result we REALLY don’t like.
Scout211
Senator Grassley has made a statement.
Senator Grassley, Texas is calling . . .
trollhattan
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Can there be any doubt? One or both were going to die and her chance observation is surely the reason she lives.
Utterly horrid.
Spouse had a mortgage client who had gone deep-anonymous to shed herself of a clinging, threatening ex-boyfriend. Bought a home he could not trace her to. Or so she thought until after a couple years he appears at her garage and shoots her dead, while her brother watched. He took off on Highway 50 pursued by the CHP and committed suicide up in the Sierra, when they had him pulled over and trapped.
A stack of court injunctions and restraining orders is just that–paper.
JoyceH
These stories illustrate why I think Dobbs is going to be an electoral game-changer. First is how the anti-abortion stance has shifted so horribly. I remember a few decades ago when the mainstream position was ‘except for rape, incest, or life and health of the mother’. Denying those exceptions was the stance of only a very few extremists. But while Roe was the law of the land, GOP lawmakers went more and more holier-than-thou, one-upping one another with more and more extreme abortion bans that they could pass without consequence because they didn’t matter – Roe insured that these bills didn’t impact any actual lives.
The other change is that people have gotten more open about both abuse and other health issues. I can remember when the word ‘cancer’ wasn’t even spoken out loud. It was whispered, or called The C Word. Heck, the newspaper horoscopes changed the Zodiac sign of the same name to ‘Moon children’! But these days, people will report their cancer diagnosis to all their Facebook and Twitter followers. Used to be there were underage rapes and resulting pregnancies, but only a handful of people knew about it, and the victim was quietly taken to have an abortion. These days, rape victims who either have to travel for an abortion, or in the case of a nationwide ban, wouldn’t be allowed to have an abortion, that’s going to be national or at least local news. These days, cancer patients are going to be shouting to the world when the prescription for their cancer medication is cancelled because it could cause miscarriage – and their lack of pregnancy doesn’t enter into the cancellation.
From now to election day, we’re all going to be watching these state and local officials in Texas and Ohio and elsewhere swaggering around and posturing for their base, and House candidates bragging up the national ban they’re going to pass – I think reaction is going to be urgency and sheer horror.
jonas
When I came to the word “woman” there is when I threw up in my mouth…
O. Felix Culpa
@jonas:
Yeah. She’s a 10-year-old GIRL, ffs. A child, barely out of babyhood herself. Bopp is a fucking monster.
Betty Cracker
@JoyceH: I hope you’re right. I also hope the depraved and officious “I’m the boss of you” attitude the Dobbs decision unleashed in the fetus fetishists prompts them to bully elected Republicans into extremist positions that are untenable in states that aren’t blood red and/or causes schisms in the state-level GOP.
There’s a whiff of that already in Florida. Anti-choice fanatics who were cheering DeSantis on for banning abortion after 15 weeks before Dobbs are now asking why not six weeks? Why not go full Mississippi and ban it altogether? They don’t seem like patient people. We’ll see.
Ksmiami
I keep hoping the Rapture comes and takes the Christianist right away from us. Seriously there’s no better proof God doesn’t exist than the fact his/her followers are the most insane and cruel people in the world.
@Matt McIrvin:
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
I agree with what Josh Marshall has said on this general topic. We can’t play on our back foot all the time and refuse to do things because we think the Supreme Court might rule against us. Part of the process of convincing people the Supreme Court is illegitimate is forcing it to actually rule the way we all expect it to rule. But for that to happen, we need to push through all the stuff we and the vast majority of Americans want to happen and then have the Supreme Court block it. Maybe the court will rule against us, but make them own it. Don’t give up without even trying and give them the win by default.
Gravenstone
@trollhattan: Inhuman piece of shit. Children have dolls, not their own children.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker:
FIFY. :)
HumboldtBlue
@JoyceH:
I damn sure hope you’re correct, or else we’re in trouble.
gwangung
@HumboldtBlue: We need to MAKE it correct.
Sure Lurkalot
@Scout211:
Sen. James Lankford (R-OK) blocked legislation that would protect the right to travel freely from state to state to seek abortion care, the HuffPost reports.
Lankford, who supports instituting a national ban on abortion, dismissed it as unnecessary.
This is the same senator who once argued that a 13-year old girl could consent to sex.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I remember reading that in at least some states, ectopic pregnancy was explicitly defined as an abortion, and the law required doctors to perform a surgery which doesn’t exist to “save the baby”.
I don’t know what the status of that law is, whether it actually made it into law or which state this was.
I also have read stories in the good old pre-Dobb days, of people refused care for ectopic pregnancies in Catholic hospitals because somebody felt it was against Catholic doctrine to terminate the pregnancy.
Gravenstone
@HumboldtBlue: Saw that. The judge should be charged as an accessory to the murders.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@trollhattan:
Jimbo answers his cellphone. I called him and told him he’s disgusting. He laughed and said he could care less. Told him “fuck you” and terminated the call.
The cruelty is the point.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Moar You Know: #NotALLReligions- SCOTUS
James E Powell
@trollhattan:
He should be featured in a TV ad that runs in every swing district in the nation. There are three winnable districts right here in Southern California. The R incumbents need to wear the worst of their party.
HumboldtBlue
@gwangung:
True.
Jay in Denver
@RaflW: Not only that, but how many times will the WaPo itself rely upon on anonymous sources and other far more questionable rules around sources, as compared to an on-the-record comment from a well-known abortion doctor? Hypocrites.
sab
@trollhattan: I wonder how many ten year olds would survive a full term pregnancy?
gvg
I just tried to look up some statistics and found fairly recent but pre Dobbs Editorials urging lawmakers to ignore the prior assumption that they had to put except in cases of rape, incest and health of the mother exceptions into abortion bans when Roe was over turned. Multiple editorials, pointing out how few abortions had anything to do with this, saying it just confused the issues and people wouldn’t care. I am thinking 1-that the decades where everyone on both sides assumed that those things were just understood made people complacent and 2-they don’t understand that eliminating even those extremes reveals more clearly that they are monsters.
There are so MANY things they don’t know that it’s hard to know where to start. Underage children getting pregnant often implies a whole bunch of other things that need investigating each time individually. Statistically it’s rare that young. Kids really aren’t that sexually active on their own. When it is as young as 10, there may be incest and family denial involved. There can be other unsafe conditions. Things need to be checked for every very young pregnancy. This story is saying the child was raped twice at least….At least a parent took her to a doctor and got help. They will still need help. There have been pro choice editorials before Dobbs saying parent, patient and doctor should, not religious laws and I can’t help thinking sometimes the parents are the problem. The young need legal advocates and I don’t know where to get a trustworthy supply.
gvg
@sab: I tried to find that statistics and got third world countries. Too much to wade through right now. Hopefully some expert doctors will start sorting through it for us.
It was not sorted by age group that I saw, at least not down to 10.
They were mostly sorted by state making the point that some like Mississippi or Louisiana have much worse maternal outcomes than some other states.
john b
they’re really just showing their whole ass, aren’t they?:
(via Washington Post)
(ETA: I see this was covered above, but my god, what an affront?!)
Subsole
@Jeffro:
These people are fundamentally no different than those wackjob “preachers” who get their compounds raided by federal agents. If you’re lucky, it ends with busloads of child-brides taken to safety. Unlucky? You get a firefight and a fire.
That’s the comparison. It won’t touch the monsters in question, but that’s what the average voter needs to think whenever these folks speak.
Every time Chris Rufo opens his mouth, people need to think:
“This man and his party would gladly be boffing 12 year olds in a concrete sex dungeon/Rapture bunker if we let them.”
Because they would.
Ksmiami
@john b: there will be few to No obgyns left in my hell state unless Abbott et Al are sent packing.
Lapassionara
@gvg: Someone pointed out that children often do not know about the signs of pregnancy, so it is not until there is definitely a visible pregnancy that an adult in their life begins to take whatever steps are needed. Although we would hope these situations are rare, in Ohio there have been on average 52 a year, one a week. Or so I read. Now that is 15 or younger, not all of the 52 are 10. But still, horrific.
Subsole
@JoyceH: Assuming our worthless suckass media spends more than five equivocating minutes on it, yes.
gene108
@Roger Moore:
Supreme Court reform, not expanding the court, but reform like actual laws governing disclosure of gifts they get from third parties, when they need to recuse themselves from cases, etc. that apply to lower courts and maybe a few other ethics laws on top of it to correct for decades of abuse would go a long way in curbing how the court behaves in the long run.
Maybe the short run too, if the conservative justices would have to recuse themselves from cases after having dinner at an expensive restaurant with some group that has an upcoming case before the court or even just filed an amicus brief.
We really need to go back to enforcing rules to make sure there’s no appearance of impropriety, because tolerating appearances of impropriety that may not be illegal makes it a lot easier for actual corruption to take place.
Subsole
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I’m pretty sure most miscarriages are classified as ‘spontaneous abortions’. Because that’s what they are. The body aborts the fetus to protect itself.
gene108
@JoyceH:
I hope you’re right, but the feeling that Democrats aren’t up to the challenging of curbing Republican radicalism is very real among a lot of people.
I don’t know what Democrats need to promise to change people’s opinions, but they do need to make it clear that if we elect them back to control the House and a few more Senators action will be taken. I know it’s risky, because who the fuck knows what kind of egos Senators or Senator-elects are going to have regarding who is the boss of them, but I think it needs to be done.
Wolvesvalley
@gene108:
Here is the main part of an email I just sent to my U.S. Rep. I hope she finds it useful in her campaign, and encourages other candidates to think about it.
louc
Florida, at least once upon a time, used to publish annual data on teen pregnancy and I used to monitor it (back in 80s/early 90s). I effing guarantee you that every year there was ***at least** one or two girls 10 or 11 who were pregnant. And doctors back then were warning us that more and more little girls were experiencing menses at younger and younger ages. The youngest onset of periods back then at was at 7 yo, iirc.
Ohio Mom
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I have recently developed the self-destructive habit of checking on my local paper’s online comment threads.
One thing that I’ve noticed is the number of forced-birthers who agree that a ten-year old should not be forced to give birth. These commentator’s psychological defenses against experiencing cognitive dissonance are stunning.
One of their main talking points is that the Indiana doctor did not report the rape as she is mandated to, and as a result, she should face criminal charges.
The actual timeline is: the mother contacted CPS, which contacted the police and arranged for the girl to see the child abuse doctor. The child abuse doctor determined it was too late for an abortion in Ohio and contacted his colleague in Indiana.
But somehow in their twisted minds, it is the Indiana doctor’s fault the police took three weeks to arrest the perp.
Is three weeks a typical time span for this sort of investigation? Maybe it took so long because they are screw-ups? Who knows. I’m not committing to an answer because I have no information.
At this point, I will not be surprised if the Indiana doctor has to go into hiding and if the girl and her family aren’t stalked and harassed.
JaySinWA
@Ohio Mom: A Fox (not Fox news) affiliate finds the report the Indiana doctor filed with FOIA request. The one the Indiana AG couldn’t find:
https://twitter.com/rachelolding/status/1547705114898534400
Fox59 report here https://fox59.com/indiana-news/abortion-report-confirms-indiana-doctor-followed-law-after-ag-vowed-investigation/
Scout211
@JaySinWA:
Oh my. So he is either an incompetent Attorney General or a grandstanding liar? I think I know the answer to that one.
LIAR, LIAR,
JaySinWA
I’m pretty sure he’s both.
cain
@trollhattan: I dearly wish for this man to be able to get pregnant and be forced to carry to term.
Juju
@trollhattan: I know I’m late to this, but this Jim Bopp person is a monster, but you probably already know this. It’s easy for him to spew the garbage he does, because he’s unlikely to ever actually deal with the results of his desired law.
I was a teacher who decided substitute teacher was the best fit for me. Early in my career I did a long term job for an 7th grade class. I came across a female student who’s behavior in class, when she was there, scared me. She had mood swings that went from zombie like to extreme anger to seemingly aware, but out of touch, to sobbing. I had never dealt with anything like that before. I talked to school administration and discovered that she was a 14 year old who had a three year old child fathered by an “uncle”. She came in one or two times a week and I believe had home schooling or a visiting teacher for the days she didn’t come to school. One of the last times I saw her she apologized for acting out in class, and said she couldn’t control herself sometimes. She stopped coming to school altogether that year. Every now and again I would hear sad news about her, and then I never heard about her at all until I read her obituary in the newspaper. She was 26 when she died and there wasn’t any other information beyond survived by. I was sad to read of her death, but not surprised. I did hear from a colleague that she had committed suicide. I suspect that’s true, but I don’t know for certain that it is true. I can’t imagine that a normal human being would wish this on anyone, let alone a ten year old girl.
Jinchi
This nearly throwaway line by Kessler is just classic.
“Additional confirmation”? As though it’s a second anonymous source and not f@#%ing smoking gun evidence of the crime.
Ohio Mom
@Juju: What a horribly tragic story. You just know the girl’s baby, who was 15 when their mother committed suicide, is having an equally horrific life.
Few get to know the underside of society like teachers. Other professions, like law enforcement, medicine and social work, get glances. Teachers are witness day after day.
different-church-lady
ExpatDanBKK
Seriously, I’d use this condescending tone because they do it to us. I’d ask them both:”Uh sweetie, can you tell me exactly how the clump of cells that is a human* (to you) in one place (uterus) is yet not in (fallopian or wherever) another? Or is it that you are just full of bullshit trying to CYA?”
* – Then I’d go: do you read your Bible? Genisis 2:7; should an atheist tell you what your fairy tale book says? Not at all different from Jewish faith…not a person until the body takes a breath. It is very clear.
ExpatDanBKK
Oh, the Torah? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582082
The Quran? https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2017/12/08/islam-and-the-beginning-of-human-life
Well, that covers the Abrahamic religions, eh? I’ve read all the books, because it is human history. They all agree on most things. It’s interesting. But. And. Uh? Why I, an educated on 3 tomes, an atheist, do not understand the hatred between y’all…what is it exactly? You need to give it up IMHO.
ExpatDanBKK
It’s all Abharamic religion bullshit. But, just own it, you cowards. Y’all worship the same God/Allah/Yaweh – Xtian/Muslim/Jewish. You KNOW that if you actually read your books.
The hatred? That’s why I’m atheist. I’m actually Buddhist. But, as defining characteristics go? That’s a philosophy, not a religion. Yet, I don’t care…
ExpatDanBKK
I take great pains to respect greetings and biz customs with all my customers. Because I’m a empathic guy. And it costs me nothing to be polite. Most of my customers in Asia know that I am an atheist. And they couldn’t care less. We live and work together, make compromises for our cultures. It’s all good and we celebrate!
When I grew up in the USA? That was a thing. We drove that attitude and acceptance. Nowadays? It scares me. And I’m sad.
ExpatDanBKK
And remember when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lot I am creating a mortal out of potter’s clay of black mud altered. So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My spirit . . . Qur’an 15:28-29
* – sounds like: not alive until God(Allah, same difference) breathed live into the body in the world? Hmmmm
ExpatDanBKK
Bereshit & Genesis are not far off. Let’s go Genisis 2:7 KJV, the most conservative thing, as referenced above…it’s still plain as day…1st breath = a soul/human. READ. YOUR. FAIRY. TALE. BOOK, XTIAN IDIOTS!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%202%3A7&version=KJV
Mimi
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes, it is. The medical term abortion also covers what most people refer to as a miscarriage.
rikyrah
@O. Felix Culpa:
Complete monster
Paul in KY
@bbleh: They would explain it away as a ‘miscarriage’ or ‘it turned out to be a benign tumor’ or something like that, IMO.