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They better get back to the drawing board, because Brian Carnell rips revisionist columnist Greg Palast a new one for his ridiculous piece titled “The Screwing of Cynthia McKinney.”
Some on the left just flat out makes shit up. It isn’t even funny anymore. Note to morons and bullshit peddlers- Ken Layne put you on notice a year anda half ago when he told you this: “It’s 2001, and we can Fact Check your ass.”
Watcher
I wish Cynthia McKinney would run for President on the Green Party ticket… I bet that would scare the hell out of whatever Democrat made it to the generel election.
Barney Gumble
John, you didn’at actually READ the material did you?
Her meaning was twisted in two different quotes twice:
In the first she could have been talking about the time between the hijackings and the tower impacts, not that Bush knew before September 11.
And in the second, Cynthia McKinney was not saying Bush KNEW about the attacks before September 11th, she was saying Bush SHOULD HAVE KNOWN about the attacks before September 11th.
Add Carnell to those intentionally twisting her words.
Ricky
The sad thing is that there are McKinney koolaid drinkers in abundance. Good grief…
Barney Gumble
I read both articles and the press release–did you?
I go in to more detail with quotes over at my blog.
HH
Keep chugging it down…
HH
“In the first she could have been talking about…”
Emphasis mine. I am now allowed to say “bullshit” and dismiss everything you say.
Barney Gumble
It’s called the principle of parsimoney: when someone says something that can be intrepreted more than one way, you have to try to choose the speaker’s intended meaning.
I could say, “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse.” and you would be wrong to claim I wanted to eat a horse.
I gave the real McKinney quote, and showed that partisans chose to claim she wanted to eat a horse.
Which she did not.
“I am now allowed to say “bullshit” and dismiss everything you say.”
A rather transparent admission of defeat. You know what they say about heat, kitchens and standing.
Now, one could intentionally misinterpret “standing” to claim I meant “upright on one’s feet” instead of “endure”.
As I’m sure you intend to.
John Cole
It’s called the principle of parsimoney: when someone says something that can be intrepreted more than one way, you have to try to choose the speaker’s intended meaning.
What the hell are you talking about?
The principle of parsimony is as follows:
One should always choose the simplest explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the fewest leaps of logic.
Ofetn it is referred to as Occam’s razer.
HH
“A rather transparent admission of defeat.”
Exactly my thoughts as you posted this since your own logic was just thrown back at you and this was your sole response. I note also you conceded that Palast lied about the New York Times’ coverage, just as was pointed out. I also note that the use of Occam’s Razor doesn’t seem to work in these discussions.
Barney Gumble
HH: It all starts with the lie about McKinney’s quote: If you have it, produce it. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist.
I didn’t concede anything on Palast–just not letting you dismiss the entire reason for this thread.
John Cole: Back to the books.
HH
Well clearly you did since you didn’t respond to Carnell at all when he brought it up in your comments. Carnell’s original post has all you need to know. “She COULD have been talking about” doesn’t cut it. Occam’s razor shows otherwise.
HH
Well clearly you did since you didn’t respond to Carnell at all when he brought it up in your comments. Carnell’s original post has all you need to know. “She COULD have been talking about” doesn’t cut it. Occam’s razor shows otherwise.
Barney Gumble
“You make the claim, you produce the same”.
He hasn’t and you haven’t.
Find where she said Bush knew about the attacks in advance. You can’t, because she didn’t.
John Cole
In a recent interview with a Berkeley, Calif., radio station, McKinney said: “We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11th. . . . What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11th? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide?”
McKinney declined to be interviewed yesterday, but she issued a statement saying: “I am not aware of any evidence showing that President Bush or members of his administration have personally profited from the attacks of 9-11. A complete investigation might reveal that to be the case.”
Barney Gumble
John, thank you for finally catching up to my first post.
How could you screw up a direct quote? How could you not know that people don’t speak in ellipsis?
Guess I’ll have to cut your meat for you:
“Now is the time for our elected officials to be held accountable. Now is the time for the media to be held accountable. Why aren’t the hard questions being asked? We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11. Vladimir Putin, President of Russia, delivered one such warning. Those engaged in unusual stock trades immediately before September 11 knew enough to make millions of dollars from United and American airlines, certain insurance and brokerage firms’ stocks. What did this Administration know, and when did it know it about the events of September 11? Who else knew and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered?
September 11 erased the line between “over there” and “over here.” The American people can no longer afford to be detached from the world, as our actions abroad will have a direct impact on our lives at home. In Washington, DC, decisions affecting home and abroad are made and too many of us leave the responsibility of protecting our freedoms to other people whose interests are not our own. From Durban to Kabul to Atlanta to Washington, what our government does in our name is important. It is now also clear that our future, our security, and our rights depend on our vigilance.”
http://www.rise4news.net/McKinney.html
So, do you see knew of the attack or knew of the warnings?
Sweet Lou
Barney,
Why are you implying that John Cole is stupid? He is obviously not stupid, either in the context of this specific post, or in general.
Implying that people are stupid does little towards winning hearts, minds, or respect. The Onion explains this better than I can.
http://www.theonion.com/onion3607/call_them_stupid.html
John Cole
What did this Administration know, and when did it know it about the events of September 11? Who else knew and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered?
There, no ellipses, completely in context- this is an accusation that the government somehow knew something and did nothing to stop it. I am not sure how you could read it any other way.
John Cole
The more I think about it, the more I am amused by some people’s selective reading comprehension.
Barney is going to sit here and argue that McKinney was not suggesting that the Bush administration knew about 9/11 before it happened, yet will continually re-state, over and over again, ad nauseum, that Bush declared the war in Iraq over, even when he clearly did not.
Do they have some sort of special school for this?
Barney Gumble
McKinney “We know there were numerous warnings…”
Cole: “…this is an accusation that the government somehow knew something and did nothing to stop it.”
Do you see the word ‘warnings’?
She said “numerous warnings”. She did not say “knew something”.
Why do you have such difficulty with the concept of a direct quote?
“Bush declared the war in Iraq over,…”
Has nothing I said about accurate quotes sunk in yet? Find that link for me, I’d like to see it again.
Sweet Lou: Aren’t you the cutest thing.
Sweet Lou
Mr. Gumble seems determined to stick to his guns. The forces of self-delusion and willful denial never cease to astound me.
Fare thee well, Barney! May ugly reality never intrude upon your happy worldview! May no heretic profane your idyllic contemplation of Saint Cynthia, political martyr!
Barney Gumble
cricket…cricket…cricket
John Cole
“Who else knew and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered?”
Spin all you want, Barney.
Barney Gumble
Selective quote. I posted the whole thing. Still don’t have the quoting down, eh?
John Cole
BECAUSE THAT IS THE GOD DAMN PART THAT IS RELEVANT. ARE YOU THIS FUCKING STUPID, OR JUST TRYING TO GET A RISE OUT OF ME?
Jeebus, you may be one of the densest partisans I have ever met.
Matthew
John, once Barney gets his mind set on rewriting history, you can’t refute him with facts or reason. He reminds me of hyperconservative Christians who refuse to believe that the world is more than 7,000 years old. It’s a religion to him, see, and we just gotta move on.
Barney Gumble
Mathew–you’re the one who claimed Somalia was not GHWB’s fault. Talk about re-writing history.
John: BECAUSE THAT IS THE GOD DAMN PART THAT IS RELEVANT.
How can you tell without reading the whole thing? You can’t.
Wal
I’ll let you in on a little secret that isn’t delusional. Your soldiers in Iraq are in real trouble in a war about which pResident moron announced ‘mission accomplished’The heroin crop in Afghanistan is estimated to be 4500 tons. Guess where that’s coming to. Sound like that place is under control?
Your economy is in a hole that is going to make your children and their children’s lives poorer.Your education and health systems are going down the gurgler, and p.moron is giving tax cuts to the rich.Your media is biased and censoring the news, and polluting the air waves with right wing filth and lies.
And your’e arguing about parsimony.
When Hitler took over Germany, imagine how the rest of the world stood by and thought ‘how can these people be so smart and yet so stupid”.
John Cole
BArney:
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2003/06/index.html#001202
CYNTHIA MCKINNEY IS STILL AN IDIOT, AND MORE FROM AROUND THE BLOGS. WyethWire links to the original source for Bush-knew-about-9-11-in-advance comments made by Cynthia McKinney that were widely-ridiculed in mainstream news outlets, but which Greg Palast claims were never uttered by the former congresswoman. See for yourself. (The whole thing, a commentary McKinney delivered on some way-left Pacifica Radio show, is rather feverish and conspiratorial; the comments in question are a little ambiguous, but could be fairly described the way NPR and The New York Times did. Still, Times reporter Lynnette Clemenson does come out looking pretty silly for not having been able to name the original source when Palast asked her.) Not to knock too much on Christopher Hitchens again, but Talking Points really puts it best on Hitchens’ ludicrous, debate-school polemic on how John Kerry is too gullible to be president. Political Aims takes a hard look at Howard Dean’s record. Chris Kelly weighs in on Judith Miller. And The Antic Muse has the last word on Antonin Scalia’s dissenting opinion in Lawrence v. Texas
Guess it just isn’t right wingers……
Barney Gumble
Wow, John. I already posted that transcript link A) here in this thread B) three days ago.
“John, you didn’at actually READ the material did you?”
–me, 6 days ago, in this thread.
HH
Those horrible neoconservatives at TAPPED posted the transcript and still insist that McKinney said it, the Fascists…
Barney Gumble
Given up on finding the actual quote, HH?
Like I said earlier, a rather transparent admission of defeat.