This is wrong. No, it isn’t wrong, it is sick.
Misha, there is over-the-top-rhetoric, and then there is what is going on at your site. It is one thing to say Kucinich is sick for using that commercial- I said so myself. It is also perfectly acceptable to state that the author of that flash animation is twisted and evil- any mind that works like that and thinks the deaths of our soldiers is an acceptable form of propaganda in a domestic political campaign is, in my mind, sick and evil. It is perfectly acceptable to point out that out, and I have no problem with anyone stating as much.
I do, however, have a problem when you step over the line as you have done here. Read your own words, the words you directed at the author of the flash animation:
Here’s a hint to you, ****: The gov’t can’t do anything to you over that ad, but that’s the extent of your protection under the First Amendment.
The rest of us, however, aren’t the gov’t, in case you’ve forgotten, and quite few of us would be more than happy to wipe that nervous little grin off your traitorous mug – with a belt sander.
Not saying anything in specific, mind you, but we’d be damn careful about showing our face in public if we were you. You just never know who that perfect stranger behind you in that alleyway might be. Could be a sibling or other relative of one of the fallen soldiers that you just took a dump on the grave of, and G-d only knows what might happen then.
Eric may not be famous enough to be a pick for the 2004 Dead Pool, but there’s another signed Imperial Mug for the first LC to inform me that Eric Blumrich has died in a “tragic” accident.
Accidents DO happen, you know, and that’s the kind of news that would definitely make my entire day.
That is a threat, and it is sickening. This is not the voice of reasonable debate. This is no disagreement over policy or issues of he day. This is an out and out threat, no different from the rhetoric that comes from the KKK or the parasites at the Vanguard News Network.
Accidents happen? A reward for information regarding a person’s untimely demise?
Add to that the publication of the personal information (and I give nary a rat’s ass whether it is publicly available) as well as a map to the guy’s house? While the author of the flash animation and Kucinich are capitalizing on our war dead, they are clearly not advocating or anticipating the death of anyone else. Call Kucinich whatever you want- when you start to write things like this and let your commenters say the things they have said in that thread, and it is time for a long look in the mirror.
This is the same sort of tactic that those sick bastards in the anti-abortion movement used to intimidate and bully abortion providers. Publish pictures of them, their routines, their addresses, and when some sick son of a bitch like that swine Paul Hill murdered one, they crossed their name off the list. How can you possibly even dismiss that this is not a threat?
This is the tactic of intimidation, calling on the elimination of political opponents. It is frightening. It IS fascistic. This is the brownshirt mentality. It is evil, wrong, unconscionable, unethical, immoral, and most of all, it is downright twisted.
People have long pestered me to de-link you, but I have always let you have a long leash, because I figured your over-the-top rhetoric was just that- rhetoric. This, however, reads like a call to action, and I can not and will not condone it. Could you live with yourself if one of your readers did murder this man in a ‘tragic accident?’ Would you really be able to glibly state that you had no part in his demise? Be honest with yourself.
Until you remove that post and permanently ban all those who posted this man’s private information, issue an apology to the individual who you have threatened, and seriously re-evaluate the harm your rhetoric could cause, consider our relationship terminated. If this post reflects your real sentiments, and your ideal approach to politics, you are not the person I thought you were. This post was disturbing in its audicity, frightening in its implications, a horrible misuse of free speech, and most of all, it was Un-American.
*** Update ***
Whoever is responsible for threatening BlackFive is a real treat, too.
Furthermore, I don’t want this comments thread to devolve into a bash Misha-a-thon. That was not the point of this post at all. I wrote it because it frightened me, and I don’t think Misha really understands how far over the line he went and how dangerous and irresponsible that post was.
Gregory Litchfield
I agree with what you say. I always feel uncomfortable reading blog entries at places like Misha’s. It’s almost as if someone took a far-right dittohead, removed any semblance of judgement or taste, and then presented their thoughts for all to see. It’s generally pretty disturbing stuff, though much to my shame, I find myself nodding in agreement with some of it. Call it a guilty little pleasure, if you will.
But like I said over at Oliver’s place, what Misha did was wrong, and I see it as inciting violence. If what he did was illegal, he should pay a price. If not, I hope he walks away from this having learned a valueable lessone, one that might keep him out of a federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prision.
Having said that, I’m still a little peeved that Oliver condemned Misha’s actions, but seems to condone the same behavior in his own comments section. Posting someone’s address in the hope that someone will act on it is bordering on the criminal, and is certainly stupid and hateful. Posting someone’s work phone number in the hope that someone will harass the guy’s company and get him fired might be somewhat less violent, but it’s just as stupid.
Gregory Litchfield
Fer cryin’ out loud! Why do I always hit “post” instead of “preview”? Jesus, you’d think I’d learn eventually. Must be all the drinking.
Eric Sivula
Gregory, if one (the map posts on Misha’s site) is assault (as a nameless troll asserts), then so is the other (the posting of personal info about Misha in Oliver’s comments and on a specific blog).
The definition the nameless troll used was this: ‘The threat or use of force on another that causes that person to have a reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact’.
I would say having raving Atriettes calling your job and harassing people there is ‘offensive contact’.
link to the blog mentioned above: http://giveitback.blogspot.com/2003_08_17_giveitback_archive.html#106149624968812140
Blackfive
John- Not sure which person you are referring to as “a real treat”.
I started by calling Kucinich and Blumrich Traitors. I don’t think that counts as inciting violence…
Could you please clarify?
Jason
I think John meant to say threat, not treat. Otherwise, that sentence makes no sense.
David Block
Well, I missed the map, except for the link to one that some anonomyous poster made. Of course, one could also de-link all of the lefty blogs which also thought it would be nice if Bush had choked on that pretzel (as long as you’re delinking those who wish harm on others), but then you probably would not have any of them over there any more.
In this case, delink LGF as well, since WHOIS information is sometimes posted in the comments over there, too. And if the comments above are true about personal information about Misha posted on Oliver’s site, then delink Oliver as well.
Apply your criteria evenly.
Kimmitt
Comment withheld, as per the request of the blog owner.
David Block
“Treat” makes sense as sarcasm. John left out the tags.
Lonewacko
What do you think of this? I posted one of my (admittedly) self-promotional responses, and the only other comment is “Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.” Neither Matt nor hostingmatters think that’s a threat, but I do, and I’m working on it.
Emperor Misha I
Well, yes, the map was over the top. It was posted in a fit and I removed it when I’d calmed down.
To point out that he’s a sick scumbag and that I wouldn’t shed a single tear if I was to learn that he’d met up with the consequences of shitting on people’s graves, on the other hand, is something I stand by.
I am not in any way suggesting that anybody should go kill Mr. Blumrich, we still have laws against that you know, and, more importantly, you’re still allowed to be a jackass without being killed over it and, reflecting upon that, I’ve modified the post accordingly and, later on, apologized for the posting that *I* did (and mind you, I wasn’t the only one) of his contact info, publicly available or not.
Somebody might have gotten the wrong idea and I deeply regret that.
But I will not, cannot, pretend to care one little whit about that despicable little turd meeting up with Karma and, if he does, he’ll have only himself to blame.
Emperor Misha I
To further clarify: I wasn’t in the least bit sorry when I heard that Edward Said, that apologist for blowing up Israeli toddlers, kicked the bucket. Nor would I be overwhelmed with grief if I were to learn that David Duke had blown his sphincter in prison or Pat Buchanan had driven his car off a cliff.
You’re fooling yourself if you think that Eric Blumrich, the stinking ghoul, wouldn’t be overjoyed to have another 1,000 dead Americans to stick on his cute little flash animation, and if stating openly that I wouldn’t be in the least bit sorry to learn that the bastard had ended up six feet under makes me a cold-hearted, sick individual, then I’m guilty as charged.
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I have no sympathy for people like Eric Blumrich, nor am I going to pretend that I have. He’s a nasty little insect. What he’s doing is not “dissent”, it’s hateful, and if giving him back a dose of his own medicine is wrong, then I’m wrong and proud of it.
I admit that I overstepped in my initial fury by posting that map, and I’m sorry about that and have corrected it.
But that’s as far as it goes.
Blackfive
…and the capper is that Eric’s brilliant friends thought that MY home address was Misha’s. And they were bragging about how cool they were to use WHOIS…idiots.
Then, my family gets threatened. Sorry, I didn’t prescribe violence, but I will be one violent sonofabitch when someone threatens my family and refers to my home address, phone number, place of employment. Any of you would be no different.
I asked for my address to be removed from Eric’s site. I explained the confusion. What did I get? Not a damn thing, that’s what.
So you see? These guys over at Eric’s place are NUTS. And they are traitors.
Ricky
Yikes.
Whatever happened to “my ideas are better than your ideas because _______”?
It’s only politics, folks. Don’t take this stuff so seriously (and since Bush is probably going to win in a walk, why would you care about what some POS loser with Flash thinks?).
If I stop seeing the ‘fun’ in blogging, it’s time to stop or at least take some time away.
Kimmitt
…and that’s a sign of the fact that you’re a conservative and not a fascist.
Nice site, by the way.
ChrisL
Good for you, John. Really.
Stentor
(If the asterisks in the first paragraph you quoted from Misha were meant to cut out the animation author’s name, you missed two more in the fourth paragraph.)
Elmo
Wow. Some solid blogging. Two sides to a very warm coin. I wuz thinking yeah, moderation isn’t necessarily a crime. Then I read Blackfive’s post. As far I’m concerned (I know, no one asked), the blogs now own the repository for critical thought. I think that ownership should be worn proudly, but not too.
Spiteful partisan nothingness is not the badge that I want to wear. Amish Tech Support used a word I find very distasteful (in any context). I know we are all better than that.
To all the bloggers fighting the virtual war, I wish only the best to you and your’s this Holiday. And give Thanks, Elmo.
Greg Bash
Where Misha did go over the line with the publication of the map, I must say that his vitriol is on target. We are, after all, talking about someone who has called for the killing of our soldiers – sworn to protect our Constitution, AND the killing of innocent Contractors and Iraqis. This person is a TRAITOR. Treat them as such. Death to all traitors.
GB
Ironbear
I’ve been chewing on this ever since it blew up, from all angles, John, and I’m still not certain I agree with you 100%.
Your point on incitement is well taken… however, it doesn’t take even minimal net skills these days to run a WHOIS off of a site’s IP and come up with extremely detailed info. Ditto for running name, addy, and/or zip into Yahoo and Google and coming up with phone #’s and other info.
We’re long past the point where it took hacker skills to dig up that information, and where doing a fast trace with SamSpade or NeoTrace Pro didn’t have potentially dangerous implications. It’s extremely publically available information.
SO… what’s the guide here: we pretend the info’s not easily available to any whackjob who might take offense to a Blumrich?
I have the feeling I’m going to be worrying at this question, and at just where the line is for a long time.
Emperor Misha I
And I agree.
It wasn’t illegal, it wasn’t publication of private information and it sure as Hell wasn’t intended as an “incitement” any more than saying “why can’t Dean just fall off a cliff” is an incitement to push him over one.
But it WAS “unnecessary roughness” to put it that way. The point had already been made and there wasn’t strictly any need to embellish on it, but I was pissed off beyond belief at the time. Upon reflection when I’d calmed down a bit, I came to the same conclusion, namely that it was wholly unnecessary, and I deleted it.
Some psychotic idiot just MIGHT have gone off the wall and, whereas there’d be nothing stopping him from typing in a /WHOIS and pasting the info into mapquest or Yahoo himself, I saw no reason why I should do his dirty work for him.
The rest of the post? Not a problem with it as far as I’m concerned. The bastard rat’s ass was jerking off over the dead bodies of our soldiers and I’ll be damned to Hell if I’ll ever feel bad about wishing him dead.
Billy Beck
I am only going to point out that the passing of duelling marked a crucial degeneration of Western culture.
I am unalterably convinced that people would be a lot more considerate of what they say if they knew that they might be pressed to validate their statements about others with their own blood.
Y’all fight nice, now, hear?
Kimmitt
And see, I’m convinced that assholes who were good shots would simply terrify and intimidate others into silence.
Which, given the context of this note, is probably what you want anyway.