I guess the point of this Drum post is to do the old bait-and-switch on Kerry’s deplorable goal of ‘stability over Democracy.’ Drum quotes members of the Carnegie Moscow Center, who state:
“It’s apparent that Russians and President Putin are interested in a second term for Bush,” said Liliya Shevtsova of the Carnegie Moscow Center. “We’ve always had good relations with Republicans. We dislike Democrats, because Democrats always care about democracy in Russia.”
Kevin opines:
Yeah, Democrats can be annoying that way. It’s much easier to deal with Republicans who occasionally jabber about democracy but never actually do anything about it, isn’t it?
Let’s not even get into the factual aspects of the comment from the folks at Carnegie (although this piece from the same group is interesting: “Reagan’s unfinished agenda. Democracy still has a way to go in Russia“), but let’s instead look at the words of his own candidate:
“With respect to getting our troops out, the measure is the stability of Iraq. [Democracy] shouldn’t be the measure of when you leave. I have always said from day one that the goal here . . . is a stable Iraq, not whether or not that’s a full democracy.”
From the other piece I listed above:
Reagan’s ideas about freedom are still alive and well among Russia’s citizens. Vast majorities still say in opinion polls that they prefer democracy over dictatorship; that they value their right to choose their leaders; and that they want to maintain their newly acquired rights to travel, own property or practice religion. Yet, after a decade of social, political and economic upheaval, firm majorities of Russian also value stability over everything else, and these Russians perceive Putin as providing stability.
Now, Kevin can argue that Bush should be doing more to pressure Putin. I might agree with that, although some of that realism but may be taking place and the administration has decided to shelve those concerns while seeking support in the current war on terror. However, when his candidate’s STATED goal is almost IDENTICAL to Putin’s the man you are criticizing, Drum’s silly cheapshot looks just like what it is- a cheap shot from a paid partisan.
John Kerry: “I have always said from day one that the goal here . . . is a stable Iraq, not whether or not that’s a full democracy.”
Kevin Drum: “It’s much easier to deal with Republicans who occasionally jabber about democracy but never actually do anything about it, isn’t it?”
Try not to giggle.
ha
Nice job taking JFK out of context! He wants a stable Iraq which may or may not be a full democracy. Which is, I’d be willing to bet, the current presidents goal. I mean, do you think we’re going to leave Iraq with a system which will be any better than the current situation in Russia? I hope so but that’s unlikely.
illiberal democracy in Iraq should be the goal, but maybe we, as a nation, should stick to higher expectations.
Kimmitt
“Who are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes?”
S.W. Anderson
I’ll bet you’d be amazed how many Iraqis would gladly opt for a stabilized, American-free Iraq under a strong-man ruler ASAP, as opposed to an unrequested, ongoing war in their midst that some day might lead to living under an alien concept that was not and is not necessarily their idea of how best to manage their affairs.
Why do I suspect that if Kerry had come out saying that nothing less than a model of Jeffersonian democracy in Iraq will be acceptable to the U.S. and that we’ll do whatever it takes to bring that about, you’d be condemning him as an unrealistic airhead?
Sharp as a Marble
Actually SW, I’d be amazed if you could pull some sort of link or something out of you ass to support your statement. I mean, are you a full time psychologist working in Iraq interviewing thousands of Iraqis every day to find this kind of information or is this just something you “think” therefore it must be true?
From most of the Iraqi blogs I read, the Iraqis appear happy that Saddam is gone and either glad we’re there and are anxious to get on their own feet or at worst, apathetic.
Again, if you’re going to make statements like that, please source them. Otherwise, it’s a bunch of hot air.
Veeshir
I had a couple of posts here that I deleted and tried to start over. The thing that finally stopped me is that the above comments point out that the left can’t be convinced of anything. Notice no quotes or links in their ‘arguments’. Kimmitt’s is especially funny in that he appears to be disparaging an actual quote from his candidate while implying that Bush, who is working on getting democracy in two former dictatorships, isn’t a fan of democracy.
That’s a perfect example of why it no longer goes to the Emperor’s site, it’s tired of being ridiculed for nonsensical statements like that.
Kimmitt
“It” no longer goes to the Emperor’s site because the Emperor is a fascist who regularly threatens his posters with physical harm, thanks.
Slartibartfast
“Fascist”? Misuse a word often enough, and it stops meaning anything. If you think Misha’s advocating an American dictatorship, you haven’t been paying attention. On the other hand, if you just think he’s being overly authoritarian and abusive on his own blog, that’s not fascism.
Kimmitt
“If you think Misha’s advocating an American dictatorship, you haven’t been paying attention.”
More of a one-Party state with dissenters murdered, beaten, and otherwise oppressed. I think the idea is to hold elections but physically intimidate people who he doesn’t like from participating.
Keep in mind that the barbaric idiot contradicts himself fairly regularly too, so any given quote about a commitment to freedom you pull up will be within two posts of a quote stating that a random person who disagrees with should be killed.
This is a man who sends pizza to IDF units that end up killing one or more Palestinians, in honor of a nonviolent protestor who was crushed by a bulldozer. There is no shame or decency there.