I can’t even watch the footage anymore, it is too upsetting. I think we have lost a city.
Just go donate.
Reader Interactions
33Comments
Comments are closed.
Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Books are my comfort food!
Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.
Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.
Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
You cannot love your country only when you win.
American History and Black History can not be separated.
They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.
I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.
It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.
The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.
President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.
Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!
Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?
This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.
We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.
This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.
“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”
Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.
There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.
Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, it’s door #2)
Hot air and ill-informed banter
with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.
People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.
capelza
We have not lost the city. New Orleans will come back from this. After a lot of work. I read this somewhere, N.O. is not ready for the Jazz Funeral yet.
JonBuck
Cities have come back from as bad or worse than this.
San Francisco 1906, The Chicago fire, a third of Boston burned in 1872, Atlanta during the Civil War. Berlin, Hiroshima, any number of European cities during WWII.
The healing will take time, and effort, and money. But it will be done. Though part of me wonders just what measures they will take to prevent this from happening again.
ppGaz
N.O. may come back, but hopefully this event will bring it back smarter and less vulnerable, and more tuned to serving its real purpose, which is to be a resource to its citizens, and not just a backdrop for postcards, or a place to hold a big annual party. Hopefully the policies and tactics surrounding the management of the river, the levee system, the canals and other items that are part of the systemic failure here, will be reviewed and remediated. Hopefully the city will recognize that is has a large population of people who have little means, including no transportation, and are not in a position to just up and relocate themselves on 36 hours’ notice when a hurricane appears on the horizon. Hopefully things like building codes will be reviewed and revised to create a New New Orleans better able to withstand the onslaught of future storms like Katrina, which are inevitable.
I’m struck by the fact that the city appears to have taken a glancing blow, not a direct hit, and yet is grievously damaged. How did the city let itself get into that position of vulnerability and fragility in the face of an absolutely certain threat?
Davebo
The last time I checked the city of Galveston Texas was chugging right along.
Nawlin’s isn’t lost. It’s just a bit wet right now.
Steven
ppgaz~
There are many contributing causes, but the hubris of the Corps of Engineers is not an insignificant one
Andrei
When N.O. does rebuild itself, some food for thought. This is the kind of stuff that not enough people talk about.
Katrina’s destructive waves. An MIT global warming expert argues that the damage wrought by Atlantic hurricanes in the past decade has more to do with rampant development than a vengeful Mother Nature.
And yes… it is time to contribute some money in the meantime.
Davebo
Steven, you’re right about the Corps of Engineers.
Maybe New Orleans should import some Dutch civil engineers.
JonBuck
Andrei:
Part of the problem is that there was a 35 year lull in the number of hurricaines that the Atlantic produces in a year. We’ve been lucky until now. The new up-cycle started in 1995, but few actually hit land until last year.
And the season hasn’t even peaked yet.
Andrei
Agreed JonBuck. This was also pointed out in the Salon.com article I linked.
John S.
It’s not the just the hubris of the Corps of Engineers that led to placing New Orleans in a dire predicament. The greed of the Oil industry and the citizens that work in it have also significantly contributed to the situation.
New Orleans used to be fairly well protected from threats such as this by the swampland that surrounds it, but thanks to the dredging of it by oil and natural gas companies – as well as the levees that hold back the flooding – the wetlands are dying.
And along with the death of those wetlands will be the death of the city that it used to protect.
kyle
That’s interesting, John S. I wasn’t aware of that effect. Can you please point to me to some research detailing the effects of swampland on curtailing damage from a Cat 4 hurricane? It’s always fascinating learning about the checks and balances found in nature, and the effects when man interferes.
Unless that was just an excuse to take a poke at the oil industry, in which case, never mind.
But if it was serious (and factual) I’d love to learn about it.
Tim F
oy.
NOLA will rebuild because it’s an essential port. Even if every building fell down they’d rebuild the port facilities and a city around them.
It’s sad to think how much of the city’s history is preserved in wooden buildings. By the time building inspectors make it back into the city to start condemning, half of those grand old homes will have fallen down on their own.
But, that’s all for later. For now my only thought is to get paid tomorrow so that I can donate to the Red Cross.
zzyzx
I think there will be a New Orleans again. It just will take some time. Mardi Gras parades. won’t be happening next year most likely.
Krista
In response to the comment about Dutch civil engineers…I don’t know if that was tongue-in-cheek, but it’s a fine idea. I was in Holland recently, and was absolutely amazed at how beautiful the place is, and how they’ve been able to create such a gorgeous country after the utter destruction they took in WWII. If anybody can rebuild New Orleans, it’s them.
JonBuck
John S:
As I frequently tell a friend of mine: You screw Nature, and she’ll screw you right back.
Makes me wonder if anything will actually change. Perhaps they’ll just put in high concrete levees instead. Perhaps in some areas they’ll actually raise the ground level of the city, like they did in Galveston.
The optimist in me hopes we’ll learn something from this. I mean, on CNN I watched a former head of the Army Corps of Engineers say that the wetlands needed to be rebuilt. But after the way they’ve messed up the Delta and the Everglades…
KC
While I don’t think you can lay everything at the feet of oil companies, the people who work for them, or the Corps of Engineers, it’s clear that this disaster has been predicted by climatologists and environmental scientists for a long time. The loss of wetlands is one of the things at its heart too. Here’s what Jared Diamond says in his new book:
Maybe some good will come out of this disaster and people will think twice about destroying certain protective habitats, even work to restore them. First things first though, people need to be rescued and the leaks in the dikes plugged. Unless of course, people decide its better to let the dikes go and just make a new New Orleans National Flood Zone Park.
JWeidner
Unfortunately, MSNBC.com is now running a headline on their home page saying the LA governor is issuing a statement that all of New Orleans must be evacuated…
Hope they’re able to save everyone. There’s no further information at this time, so there’s no telling what’s prompting this…
JWeidner
Edit to above post.
Apparently the evacuation order is related to 2 levies having broken and the city filling with water. Everyone still left in the city, whether in the Superdome or other “safe” areas needs to be evacuated…
John S.
Judging from the snark of your further comments, I presume you work for an oil company, but here is some interesting reading for you here.
You may notice the abundance of excerpts from the indexed sites referring to “The staggering annual losses of wetlands in Louisiana are caused by humans” and “Wetland Loss Averages One Football Field Every 45 Minutes” or “New Orleans’ growing danger. Wetlands loss leaves city a hurricane hit away”.
And of course, I’m sure you really give a crap.
Gus diZerega
To add to the wetlands loss issue – it turns out that the tsunami in the Indian Ocean was as bad as it was in significant part because of the clearing of mangrove swamps for shrimp farms. In areas where mangroves were healthy and abundant, the tidal wave was dissipated to a significant degree. So the issue of New Orleans and its wetlands in one of several serious examples of the same kind of problem.
I am unsure how to do the link, so here it is in primitive form:
http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=6826505&uart=10&uarc=Rating
Google, of course, has more.
demimondian
[sigh]
Like a lot of things, I know something about this — although not as much as I suspect that ppGaz knows, at least if he’s who I think he is.
There’s truth in both sides of the argument about wetlands. On the one hand, yes, a wetland effectively low-pass filters the time course of the advance of the surge. That’s relevant because (1) the surge is short lived (only a couple of hours) and (2) the waves that ride on top of the surge — and that do a lot of the worst damage — are more short lived still. If you can low pass filter them, you can, and sometimes will, protect the land behind the wetland from catastrophic waves and mass water movement.
On the other hand…folks, this was a 15-plus foot surge with 30-plus foot waves riding above it, even as far inland as New Orleans. Newsflash: nothing would stop that except a flood wall as high as St. Louis’s, which came within 6″ of failing in the 1992 summer floods. If it had failed, the situation would have been worse than if it had not been present at all.
John S.
Demimondian-
Since you can’t have it both ways, which do you choose?
A) This is a wake up call that man needs to start improving his relationship with the environment or face dire consequences.
B) Man isn’t really affecting the environment that adversely, and since nature is so unpredictable anyway, shit happens.
Or would you rather regale us with another ‘have your cake and eat it too’ lecture?
Krista
I think it’s a little from column “A”, a little from column “B”. I think we need to start respecting the environment and stop slapping it around, ’cause it’s unpredictable enough as it is, so why make things even worse?
John S.
Krista-
The only problem with that is when people even include column B, the worst offenders of column A bang it like a drum and use it as a way to distract people from their actions.
It’s the old trick of misdirection…pay attention to my right hand so you’ll ignore what y left hand is doing.
Krista
Good point…I don’t consider myself a “tree-hugger”, as it were, but I’ve just never understood the mindset of people who think that Earth was put here for us to wear out like a pair of sneakers. Last time I checked, it’s not viable for us to live on any other planet. (Yes, that was snarky.)
I just can’t get over those poor people. Did anybody see that interview with that man who was holding on to his wife and kids, and he couldn’t hold on any longer, so his wife let go, after telling him to take care of the kids? I choke up every time I think about it. I’m agnostic, so I’m not much of a one for prayer, but my heart truly goes out to that man.
demimondian
John S. —
Have you ever heard the phrase “false dichotomy”? How about “non sequitor”? They apply to your analysis with stunning precision.
Living “more in harmony with nature” would have done squat to change the intensity of Katrina. Big Storms Happen, as the Earth Turns and the Sun Shines. That’s just the way it is. When big storms happen, man can’t stop them.
You can argue about whether global climate change is make more big storms happen, if you want, but it’s pure intellectual masturbation to do so — we live in the world as it is now, and, in that world, warming is a reality. Whether warming made Katrina worse or not is a stupid question.
What I have said, and say, is that yes, preserving the wetlands would have made a difference in a smaller storm. In this case, d00d, that would have made no difference, and (now listen carefully, and remember that I’m as much a lefty as you are) trying to demagogue Katrina is disgusting and distasteful. New Orleans wasn’t slammed because God punished her for her “unnatural lifestyle”, and she wasn’t slammed because God punished her for her “not sufficiently close to nature” lifestyle either.
Grow up.
John S.
Demimondian-
Have you ever heard of full of shit? Of being patently false? They apply to your analysis with stunning precision.
Of course more wetlands would not have STOPPED this storm, but not dredging up a football field of wetland worth of swampland every 45 minutes would have helped a hell of a lot with the flooding and storm surge, but as I suspected you prefer the path of misdirection. Man isn’t responnsible for ruining his environment, shit just happens.
Ever hear of a strawman? I guess so, since I never even brought up this ‘global climate change’ tangent of yours. But apparently, you’re in full-on Republican defense mode, so when someone says ‘environment’ you think ‘global warming’.
You love to pile on the bullshit. Demagogue Katrina? I did no such thing. I stated the obvious — mankind’s impact on the environment has dire consequences. Live up to it. Own it. And all this other bullshit about lifestyle and God is entirely of your creation, not mine.
So thanks for all the pretty little strawmen, but take your own advice. Accepting responsibility for your actions is part of growing up. Shirking your responsibility and villifying those that try to make you accept it is what is disgusting and distasteful.
Oh, and by the way. Hurricane Katrina went right over my fucking house. So I’m glad you can sit there in the comfort of your home spouting bullshit in safety.
Stormy70
This is funny in so many ways. BWHAAAA! I like the throw down of Hurricane cred, well-played. Now we must bow to your hurricane wisdom. Really, you are too much.
John S.
Stormy-
What is too much is you attempting to make a point when you really haven’t one. Do you just say the first thing that pops into your vacuous mind, or do you actually have to try to come off as stupid as you do?
g52ultra
“We will rebuild..”
WHO’S “WE?”
The US Taxpayer is going to rebuild New Orleans? The US Homeowner who has to pay higher insurance premiums?
For what are WE going to get? Another environmentally unsuitable city that is vulnerable to nature? In case anybody doesn’t know this: NATURE WINS. Every time. I suppose “WE” can just keep damning up this abomination and continue to keep causing more environmental disasters where nature had saw in the past to keep fit!
Ferret21
I hate it when people say “If only we did this or that everything would be different!” We don’t really know what would have happened if the wetlands were left as they originaly were when the hurrican hit. We simply don’t. Everyone has theories, but often, theorys on both the right and the left have some biased to them. I personaly would need a lot of data to convince me that less development would have made the flooding noticably less. I’m sure people much smarter then me will study this from a much less biased point of view then any of us (at least, I hope so).
Even if leaving the marshes alone did change things, how many parts of our world have been changed by the exsistance of humans? Can we predict everywhere with certainty what our presence will do? Not likely. For every enviromental disaster prediction that happens how many come true as opposed to those that don’t? It easy to be right once out of a hundred and then claim that you are always right. But, it takes frequent and acurate predictions that turn out to be true to qualify as fact.
One thing is certain, everyone that knew about the history of New Orleans knew if a big enough hurrican hit it, the levies would break and the city would be flooded. We also know the levies were not built to take the size of this hurrican. They weren’t built stronger because of the cost to do so. Was that a mistake? Sure seems like it now. But how often can politicians get support for massivly expensive projects until AFTER something terrible happens. Politicans would have been attacked if they tried to strengthen the Levies. They would have been accused of not putting that money into edjucation or health care. Voter’s would have likely agreed and kicked the politican the wanted to strengthen the levies out of office.
We live in a reactive society. We had record voter turn out last election because of september 11th but the election of 2000 was an all time low. Why? No one thought their vote changed the way life ran. People would not have supported stronger levies because no one saw just how dangerous they were at their current state.
I don’t like laying blame during such a horrible event, because it’s so easy to blame whoever is convenient. But I would blame the mind set we have as a nation that we are safe until events prove otherwise.
What is the quote? “the cost of freedom is eternal vigilance”. It seems that lack of vigilance can result in the loss of life as well. Should we ignore our impact on the enviroment? I think we should not damage more then is neccisary to allow people to live happy, productive and godd quality lives. Will there be costs that we don’t see when we live anywhere in the world? Probably. Will people still die of natural disaster if we lived in tents and only ate vegitables. Probably.
Remember, technology has proven to help lessen the death from disasters. The leveis would have lessened death if they were state of the art just as the building codes in California lessen death during an earthquake. But, no mater what preperation is made, the worst of the worst of disasters will kill. They only way they don’t is if we aren’t there. But disasters can happen everywhere whether its a tornado, wildfire, flood, earth quake, volcano and hurrican. If there is a place that none of these can happen, I certainly would like to know so I can move there.
Inge
Another note on Dutch engineers: they are eager to help you folks out. They are waiting for the ‘go’ signal of Washington. In the meantime Dutch people donate to American Red Cross and the like to help. :) We know how ugly flooding can be.
Inge, living 12 feet below sea level in Holland, with dry feet for 25 years :)
maribel
i feel sorry for all the victims of Katrina.. but i hope that they find strength and wisdom to go on. there’s hope in everything.. don’t give up..
but for those citizens who somehow lost their minds because of what happened, please help yourself and stay focused… rape, looting, etc.. is not the solution! have mercy on your fellow victims. be human!