It is becoming increasingly clear that I am simply out of touch with the vast majority of the American public. I really am. I just guess I have different expectations for what government can and can’t do, and what government should do.
I am sitting here listening to a CNN reporter (Miles O’brien) sitting there arguing with Haley Barbour that the federal government didn’t do enough to prepare for the storm. Haley Barbour pointed out that Katrina was a category 1 hurricane when it hit Florida, Miles interrupted him, and stated that the Pentagon failed to pre-position enough amphibious vehicles, helicopters, etc. In short- the disaster is several days old, and apparently the relief efforts are a failure according to the prevailing opinions in the. Soledad O’Brien is harping at Michael Chertoff because cell phone lines are down. Seriously.
And I guess I just don’t get it. I look at what has been done, and what has happened, and I am shocked the death toll is not higher. The entire coastline from New Orleans to 150 miles+ eastward was wiped out. Wiped out. Storms knocked out power, flooded cities, knocked down trees, caused flooding dozens of miles inland. The entire city of New Orleans is under water. Large parts of the country simply no longer exist as they did a week ago, and to make this even more frustrating, the same people claiming not enough is being done are the ones who keep drilling home how big this disaster is.
The size and the scope of this thing are amazing- mind boggling. This is the largest natural disaster I have ever seen in the United States, and somehow, people just expect everything to be fixed. No acknowledgement of the difficulty and the chaos. No understanding that it just takes a while (no matter what is pre-positioned) to get to some places and get these types of operations up and running.
Christ- when it snows heavily here in WV, it sometimes takes 3-4 days to get the hollows plowed so people can get in and out and get food. People go days without power. From snow. Snow. Which is a touch more predictable than the a category 4-5 hurricane. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb and predict that West Virginia will get hit with snow numerous times from December-March. Just a hunch.
So again, I guess I am just out of touch with the rest of America. I look at the unprecedented response, and I think it is amazing we are able to mobilize so much so quickly over such a large area. I am a little upset about the lack of preparedness by the local and state officials regarding the evacuation and levee in New Orelans, but for the rest of the response, I guess it is just too early for me to declare everything is a failure.
And before a couple of you knuckleheads accuse me of being a ‘Bush apologist,’ this isn’t about Bush. Well, for me it isn’t, but it is for the NY Times, the dKos, and a lot of Democrats. Personally, I am never going to vote for Bush again and have expressed enough supreme dissatisfaction with his choice of priorities over the past few years that my days of defending him are over. I will suspend my judgement until the post-mortem is written months from now.
This is about me looking at what I think are just completely unrealistic expectations for responses to disasters of this magnitude. In fact, if disaster were being defined today, the definition would no longer be “An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe.” Apparently, a disaster would now be defined as ‘a slight inconvenience that can be immediately overcome with adequate planning and really convincing speeches by political figureheads.’
From where I sit, it looks like the same people who think you can lose weight without diet and exercise are now in charge of defining what a disaster is and what the response should be. So there you have it- I am out of touch with the rest of you guys and gals.
ape
JC – the Government WAS doing something about it before Bush decided, in his journey from surplus to deficit, the flood defence funding had to go:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
key quotes:
“The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history.”
“In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain”.
Bruce From Missouri
Wow… Never going to vote for Bush again. I’m proud of you John. That’s a pretty meaningless declaration. He will never run for anything again.
The real question is, are you going to vote Republican in ’06? If you do, all your p*ssing and moaning about republican stupidity is less than meaningless.
Bruce
John Cole
None of that matters a whit, from what I can see. Thanks for bringing up that new old hoary canard. The projects wouldn’t have been finished for years. And, even as planned for cat 3, the levees would not have been able to handle this torm, it appears.
I have no explanation for why the budget was cut, but I have seen little evidence that this had any impact on events as they have unfolded.
John Cole
Quit being such a partisan idiot. I mean, just try to control yourself for a minute and comprehend what I mean. Just try.
The point was I am not saying this because I am defending Bush, I am saying this because I simply do not understand the expectations for what should be done in unprecedented disasters like this.
Again, I know this may be asking a bit much, but just try to understand my point before boring me with your dull, predictable, and stupid responses.
Doug
I have no idea what the government could or couldn’t do better. Mother Nature’s a bitch with all kinds of blood in her hands, and there is only so much we can do about it. But there is a sense that Bush’s priorities resulted in doing less than we would have done previously. I don’t know if that’s actually true. But, when we cut domestic disaster spending so we can pursue a policy in Iraq that is, frankly, of little or no practical use to Americans; it becomes yet another source of anger when a disaster strikes. And those on the left are afraid that this will be yet another round of “Bush gets a pass, because, golly, he couldn’t possibly have done anything about it.”
On the other hand, that discussion should really, really wait a couple of weeks.
StupidityRules
We could argue forever about if Bush cutting the money to New Orleans made a difference or not.
But one thing that’s totally clear is that most of New Orleans is under water, there might be people trapped in houses without food or water and Canadian search & rescue teams are not allowed into the country.
So there is some rather pressing things right NOW, that Bush will have to answer for.
KCinDC
Yes, it’s a huge disaster. How does that mean that the response is automatically as good as it could possibly be and beyond criticism? How does that mean that it would be useless to have additional help from the National Guard — help that’s not possible when the Guard has been used as a substitute for the regular military and is tied down in Iraq? How does that mean that having the federal government do *something* as the hurricane was approaching, or in the day after it hit, would have been no better than doing nothing as it did?
No doubt there are a lot of Republicans out there now spreading the idea that nothing could have been done and what the people in the affected area are getting is more than they should expect. And maybe it will work. After all, on September 11 and the days following I felt about Bush’s complete lack of leadership much as I do now. But within a week, even liberal friends of mine somehow decided that he was a leader after all. With a little more PR, people will forget the cake and the guitar, and Katrina can give Bush’s (and by extension, Republican) ratings a big boost as 9/11 did.
John Cole
Louisiana was declared a disaster area several days before the hurricane hit. The federal government was not just sitting around doing nothing.
Again, time will tell if the response was adequate.
And your hatred of Bush is duly noted.
Mr.Ortiz
I’m sorry, John, but “It probably wouldn’t have helped anyway” is not the most convincing defense of those budget cuts, especially when the engineers involved seem to agree that it would have helped a little bit. You can find the links and quotes all over the comments on this very blog, I don’t feel like digging them up and reposting them.
As for the emergency response, I don’t expect miracles but it’s hard not to think we could do better. Most frustrating are the looters, who are hindering search, rescue and evacuation operations, but I blame that on the looters. That’s one point where we probably agree.
Finally, there’s the president’s personal response. Again, I don’t expect a pretty speech to save lives, but who knows? Any good commander knows the importance of keeping morale high. Bush’s speech just perpetuated feelings that he is out of touch.
Tim F
It is far too early to make that assessment. As Kevin Drum pointed out, one modeler with relevant experience predicted that one-third of the people who stayed did not, or will not, survive.
That seems like a high number, but the death toll count has not slowed down its rise. ‘Confirmed dead’ will eventually merge with ‘confirmed missing and unaccounted for’ as the identifiable bodies are processed and a census of the survivors can be taken.
Until then the best we can say is that many people survived.
Dennis
It seems the punditocracy has 20/20 hindsight and can easily predict any event hours after it occurred. They wonder incredulusly why the Governments chrystal ball consistantly fails. Why is the Governments pre-response to any event so poorly planned?
Tim F
As I’d said before, the defenders and the critics are making two completely different arguments. People who defend Bush want to refute the claim that the improvements that were cut absolutely, positively would have saved New Orleans. Some people really are making that argument, but those people are stupid. At this point we don’t know and can’t know what would have saved New Orleans.
A much more relevant point is that once again Bush decided to de-prioritize a potential danger in favor of his monomaniacal pet obsessions, war with Iraq and tax cuts for Americans who scarcely need them. Obnce again it turns out that Bush was wrong. Just like terrorism in fact turned out to be more dangerous than the threat from iraq, we discover New Orleans really is in danger of hurricanes and catastrophic flooding.
This should hardly surprise anybody since even Bush’s supporters will happily praise his all-or-nothing risk-taking style. Decisive! Never second-guesses himself! Well, there’s a flip side to that coin. Bush gambled at least twice with America’s well-being and he lost both times.
Another Jeff
Look, I voted for Bush in 2000, I didn’t vote for him in 2004 (i didn’t vote for Kerry either. Actually, I didn’t push anything for President because the Democratic machine in Philly was gonna make sure Kerry had enough votes to win PA anyway. I was more concerned about the senate and making sure Specter beat that idiot Hoeffel).
So, I’ve voted for Bush in the past and I’m far from a “Bush hater”. That being said, he’s really handling this bad. I’m not big on symbolism. When Clinton bit his lower lip and felt everyones pain, it didn’t mean a tinkers dam to me. Also, when Bush was Governor of Texas, but everyone knew he was gonna run for President, and he was getting grief for not going to Jasper, TX after the James Byrd murder, I agreed with his approach that he spoke privately with the family and did everything he could, but that he didn’t wanna run to Jasper for some photo op and he preferred to let the family grieve in private.
There, all that being said, he really has to fucking do SOMETHING here to reassure the people down there that every possible thing that can be done is being done. Now, the President of the United States isn’t gonna go down there and hop in an air boat and look for survivors, and at this point, even taking an on-the-ground tour of the area would probably do nothing but get in the way of people doing their jobs, but he should’ve cancelled that little swing to CA and AZ, and every fucking second he’s on camera, he should be huddling with his advisors and reassuring the people down there that he’s being kept up to speed and everything possible is being done.
I mean, ooooh, he’s cutting his vacation short two days. Even before the hurricane, does he realize how it looks that he needs to take a fucking five-week vacation in the first place, when we’re at war. I understand with the communications systems at his disposal that there’s nothing he can’t do in Crawford that he could do in Washington, but, in his own words, it’s “hard work” being President. So, for eight years out of your like, take a fucking two week vacation. You have the rest of your life to spend on that fucking ranch.
OK, end of vent. Sorry about all the “F” bombs.
Shygetz
During Hurricane Andrew, we mobilized 29,000 troops (a combination of National Guard and federal troops) to respond to the disaster. The numbers I’ve seen so far have the response at about one third of that. We need probably closer to 50,000 to ensure order and an effective rescue effort. Like John said, this isn’t just New Orleans. The MS coastline is gone. I work for a federal research agency, and they are trying to scour our ranks for anyone with an MD. None of us are practicing medical doctors (even most of the MDs don’t have their license), but the government doesn’t have enough practicing MDs for disaster response. Considering that Homeland Security (including natural disaster response) was supposed to be Bush’s strongpoint, we should expect a better response now than we had a decade ago. So far, I am not impressed.
Trent
Hey John, how about describing to us what has been mobilized?
And then break that down between the local response and the federal response.
iocaste
It’s not like there aren’t enough links in the comments, but here’s another:
It’s not just about construction projects; it’s about basic preparedness.
John S.
John,
Bush is irrelevant in this equation, other than the fact that he currently represents ‘the government’. And it is the government that has had decades to soften this sort of blow, but hasn’t heeded the call to action that has been issued by so many scientists for decades. I’m not going to repost the same links I already have dozens of times here (just do a Google on ‘effect loss wetland New Orleans’).
The simple fact of the matter is that the Gulf Coast has been shedding wetlands at an appalling rate since the 1930s. And in the time since, scientists and ecologists have been bemoaning the negative effects of it, while state and federal governments have ignored their warnings. The simple fact is that for every 2.7 miles of wetland lost, the ability of the land to absorb 1 foot of storm surge is diminished (according to the Louisiana Governor’s own coastal expert).
If you want to claim this wouldn’t have helped, fine, ignore the statements that have been made on record. And if you want to sit there and tell me nothing could have been done over the last 70 years to abate this disaster, then I can’t stop you from shirking man’s responsibility for the detrimental effect he is having on his environment.
But when the next catastrophic natural disaster occurs, don’t be surprised if there are plenty of folks lined up to lament and say, “I told you so.”
Krista
Whoa…I just logged on and saw this. Why the flying hell is Canadian Search and Rescue not allowed in?
Bob
I like the logic, John. The project to fix the levees couldn’t be finished for years. The hurricane that might destroy New Orleans couldn’t have been predicted. Here are the choices for the Bush Administration:
1. Continue to work to fix the levees at the same rate.
2. Direct even more funds to ensure that the levees would be fully repaired sooner and do all possible to prevent a disaster in the interim.
3. Cut funds for the levee reconstruction by over 80%, redirecting the money either to Iraq for the continuation of a war based on lies or in the form of tax cuts for the ultra-rich.
Gee whiz, what can the government do?
I don’t want the government to make personal decisions for me. But I expect a government to provide for the common good. There is a kind of self-imposed stupidity with a certain segment of the right. It’s demonstrable throughout the world that a centralized healthcare system provides more coverage for more people for less money. In the US business interests block that benefit for the majority in order to provide huge profits for a slim segment of the minority. People don’t have to provide their own armies in order to defend their homes. People don’t build their own roads to go from home to work.
The Bush Administration’s decision was to redirect funding away from fixing those levees. It’s not unrelated to the core philosophy of these selfish greedheads running our country. Usually the cause and effect isn’t so clear, or so quick to appear.
I think the real question is how long the MSM can stay away from the story while the rest of world is awash in it. Can they put it on the shelf next to the Downing Street Memo, Jeff Gannon’s sleepovers, or Plamegate?
Trent
Bingo. Argue about the levee and budgets all you want. But the point of substance that Bush cannot get away from is that the military response at the federal level has been appallingly lacking. The area needs to be flooded with personnel to maintain order and perform rescue missions. Those resources should have been called up last week, preparing to deploy and being pre-positioned.
But none of that was possible because some many are in Iraq. The writing is on the wall: The Guard and Reserve are broken.
It’s amazing: Billions have been spent on Homeland Security to deal with a situation just like this. And there’s no plan.
I’ll tell you the reason: With few exceptions, the Bush Administration appointments are filled with incomptent, partisan, do-nothing hacks. Few were hired for ability, most were hired for loyalty.
This is what we get.
norbizness
Remember, bemoaning a lack of Homeland Security/FEMA preparedness is like blaming gay people for the hurricane, as shown by the last post. It’s like a thousand Phelpseses up in here, apparently.
As for the recurring strain of “well, they were just class 3 levees anyway”… I mean, why reinforce levees at all if class 4 hurricanes are theoretically possible? Why bother reinforcing buildings in California to withstand a magnitude 7.5 earthquake if a 10.5 earthquake (as shown by television) is possible? In the words of Homer Simpson: “if something’s too hard, then it’s not worth doing.”
Tim F
We’d all like to know the answer to that. Canada has teams and supplies sitting on the tarmac but Homeland Security won’t ok the mission.
It could be that the more help we get the more this administration looks unprepared. We already know that the admin is pathologically obsessed with image so it’s not that much of a stretch. If so it would be example #95,000 why a great campaigner can make a spectacularly lousy leader.
Hippie Doug J
I am a liberal Democrat and this is all Bill Clinton’s fault. Because of that so HELP ME GOD, I will NEVER vote for him again!
Davebo
Katrina was a category five hurricane in the Gulf after brushing Florida and was going to hit somewhere.
Frankly, I was flabergasted when yesterday afternoon the head of Homeland Security announced that he had just met with the president and had been authorized to use any assets he needs to provide assistance.
This was Weds. afternoon. The hurricane hit Monday morning and by Tuesday we knew it was going to be perhaps the worst disaster in US history. Yet more than 24 hours passed before our this man had been given the authority he apparantly needed to call out all available assets.
I would have hoped he would have that kind of authority while the category five storm was still in the gulf. We knew it was going to hit somewhere between East Texas and the Panhandle of Florida.
pmm
Even though I don’t agree with many of the commenters here, I must admit that this is one of the more charming insults I’ve come across lately.
Alexandra
I disagree with you, John. As a New Yorker, I saw firsthand what a massive government effort could do to move and improve a situation. What is going on now is poorly organized chaos–chaos that is killing innocent men, women, and children who are our citizens.
It is clear that there were things that could have been done before the hurricane hit, for example.
1. finish building/fixing that damn levee.
2. get buses to take the poor people out of New Orleans
3. bring an adequate supply of portapotties, food, and water to shelters like the Superdome.
4. alert and prepare National Guard troops from Louisiana and other states in case they are needed.
The list goes on and on. Unfortunately, it seems that a big part of what is going wrong here–why people are left on highways for several days with no food, water, or anywhere else to go, is that no one seems to be in charge. There is no clear leadership. I really am shocked that you or anyone would say “oh well, it’s good enough.” There is no “good enough” in this kind of crisis. It requires all hands on deck, 100 percent effort, mutual, national sacrifice. This is a crisis. Lives can be saved NOW. A boy or girl on a roof, a pregnant woman in labor, a beloved grandmother–all of these people who could be dying in the heat or the water right now are people who might go on to live productive, valuable lives for years if they can just get through this crisis. What kind of people are we if we do not do EVERYTHING possible until they are saved?
pmm
Tim F, as a firm supporter of this President, I’d say image is the least of their abilities–the lag time in various “official” responses over the past few days hasn’t been particularly inspiring. Anybody can do good imagery with time & heads up–witness the political conventions–but when it’s unscripted? Not these guys. I think they count on being vindicated by events and let their imaging go to hell as a result, even when a proper image is required by our leadership.
ppGaz
The only large government failure I can see here involves the state and local authorities in New Orleans who didn’t seem to be very concerned about the fact that many thousands of people would be trapped in the city in a worst-case storm hit.
There are people without transportation, without means to pay for transportation, people who are sick, people who feel they have to stay and care for people who are ill … I haven’t listed every reason here, there are many. But the point is, given the situation that the city is in …. it was well known that it could fill up with water in a matter of hours …. why the hell didn’t those governments create a plan to get all those people out of there? It’s going to cost a lot more to get them out now, and the failure to do this planning can be directly blamed for many deaths.
As for the Federal government …. I am not very impressed with the timeliness of the response here, but I don’t know enough about the disaster business to criticize them just now. Let’s see how they perform going forward.
Tim F
I’d say image is the least of their abilities
I didn’t say that they were necessarily good at image in unscripted occasions, I said that they are pathologically obsessed with it.
They can’t control the president’s petulant attitude any more than they can take back their gutting of FEMA, but they can keep the Canucks away from American TV cameras.
John Dilulio called them the Mayberry Machiavellis for a reason.
Tim F
The first line in my post should have been a blockquote.
Trent
In the context of massive tax cuts, bloated energy and transportation bills and runaway Homeland Security and military expenditures, what is the rationale behind Republican cuts in disaster prevention budgets? I don’t just mean the levee. Bush has cut things across the board, most notably gutting FEMA.
I’m serious about this. I would like to understand the thinking behind it. i don’t get the rationale behind denying the funds for these programs. It’s part of the fundemental role of government that even libertarians agree on.
Joe Albanese
John, you are out of touch with America. You see most of America depends on their government at times like this to step in and take charge to mitigate the ongoing horror that I see on my TV screen. No the government couldn’t have PREVENTED the hurricane and no reasonable person is suggesting that , but the government’s response to the hurricane is nothing short of disgraceful. You ask, what could the government do in light of such a natural disaster? Well isn’t that what HOMELAND SECURITY is supposed to figure out? Aren’t they planning for a terrorist attack? How is the natural disaster of Katrina substantively different than that of a terrorist setting off a suitcase nuke in the French Quarter? Would the federal government’s response been any better?
So what is the government’s plans to deal with large numbers of refugees after a terrorist’s attack? Their plan to supply food and water to the survivors? Emergency communication? Troops to prevent anarchy? Jesus there is not even enough officials at the Super Dome to tell the people what the hell is going on. This was the shelter the government set up and they are woefully unprepared to even communicate with those showed up. Have ANY of these issues been planned for when EVERYONE says its just a matter of time before we have a terrorist attack? What have they been doing since 911 if they haven’t planned for such a HUGE disaster.
I just heard that the President Bush has appointed a cabinet level task force to coordinate disaster relief. Huh? You mean to tell me there is not a mechanism in place for the government to IMMEDIATELY deal with a disaster? You mean Homeland Security doesn’t have a task force, trained, and ready to go IN ADVANCE of just such a circumstance?
Demdude
Time will tell if the initial response was all they could do. We know that this administration is incompetent when it comes to leadership, as evidenced by the last couple of days.
I think the governors did an outstanding job in leadership. Even Haley Barbour, who I think is one of my least favorite politicans on the planet, did a good job of presenting a calming influence on his state.
I am still amazed that Federal Troops were not dispatched to the hard hit areas immediately. Natl Guard and local police are not able to respond effectively in this kind of disaster. People forget in “survival mode”, these folks have families to protect and look after. I can’t believe we can’t send at least 40-50,000 troop there. Are we that depleted?
If we get anything out of this disaster, I hope to God that we learn how to handle these situations. A terrorist with a nuclear weapon can create widescale carnage. Maybe not as much as this, but you always train for X times the situation you expect.
ppGaz
Legitimate questions.
My two cents worth would be to let the story unfold some more before jumping to any conclusions.
Narvy
The President’s role in a catastrophic situation could be, and historically has been, to come before the people and, with the aid of a good speechwriter, offer words of inspiration and comfort. What I’ve seen of President Bush’s response has been neither inspirational nor comforting.
Which brings me to this quote from The Gawker:
Joe Albanese
(continued)
Sorry John but I am baffled that our federal government, after 911, hasn’t been better prepared and this is one time that people are going to DEMAND accountability. This is not theory anymore but life and death You just watch over the next days, weeks, and months how OUT OF TOUCH you really are.
Trent
ppGaz, you say:
right after criticizing the local and state response:
Did brain cells die during that mental gymnastic act? It’s like the collision of matter and anti-matter!
I’m not trying to flame you, but c’mon, this argument is becoming downright silly.
DougJ
I think that there probably isn’t much that could have been done in the past week to change any of what happened. And I’m afraid that maybe nothing could have helped in Gulfport or Biloxi. But I think that if they (and I’m not sure who “they” are, whether it be the city, state, or federal government) had restored the wetlands that buffered New Orleans, the damage might have been much less. I don’t understand the mechanics of this yet, but it seems that is what all of the hurricane experts are saying.
So maybe shouldn’t be throwing charges around willy-nilly, but if by doing so, they arrive at something that will help prevent future disasters, then it is all for the good.
Bob
ppm: “Greedhead” was a term used by Hunter Thompson decades before he checked out of here. Sort of like “crackhead,” but with the acquisition of wealth being the primary motivator. It’s a kind of social disease you catch from hanging out with the wrong people.
DougJ
I guess all the people they talk to in this article must be part of the angry, incomprehensible left, John
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12528233.htm
Come to think of it, I guess I must be too.
John, your posts on this issue have been simply awful.
capelza
This is what is bothering me. What if it was terrorists who breached the levees? What if terrorism had caused some cataclysm in another city. God, I’d hope the level of preparedness would be better than this. The feds aren’t looking too good right now, even out here amongst my Republican friends. The logistics must be an utter nightmare, but something IS fubar. I’ll add my voice to the questioning of why the Vancouver, BC Urban Rescue Team wasn’t allowed to go help.
And, yeah, Bush did really screw up image wise by dithering.
It only served to further the impression that noone was really doing anything about it. Fair or not. You know, at this point, the guy should get out in a gator boat and start helping. Screw the security, give him a bullet proof vest and a boat load of water and get his hands dirty. I tell ya, I’d be impressed and I think he is a..well never mind about that.
pmm
I don’t claim to know what the appropriate level of funding for FEMA or the Corps of Engineers projects should be, or the proper disposition and mix of National Guard troops. I don’t know if the plans in place at the local, state, and federal level were sufficient. I don’t know if the response to this disaster was as timely as it should’ve been. I do know that, once the situation has been stabilized and we can conduct an after-action review of the disaster, we’ll have a better idea. But assuming right off the bat that because everything possible wasn’t done to prevent this disaster therefore indicts the decision makers strikes me as premature and setting the bar rather high. At least for now, I agree with those who’ve noticed that the federal response hasn’t appeared timely nor inspiring.
Joe Albanese
This morning, about 7:05 am Eastern time, George Bush was interviewed by Diane Sawyers on ABC’s Good Morning America. This is what he said:
(shades of Condi Rice saying that no one could have EVER imagined terrorists flying airplanes into buildings) I’m not even going to post the VOLUMINOUS documentation where the President is proved to be a complete LIAR yet once again but here is just one:
.
docG
I like the real DougJ better.
Trent
This is the Republican accountability moment and they have failed.
They own the government. They call the shots. They set the agenda and push forth their vision. Their only mandate in the past 4 years was to prepare for this moment. They have proven that they have neither the competence nor the will nor the integrity to protect the American people.
It’s time to restore the concept of “public servant” to politics.
John Cole
I don’t know about angry, and I am pretty sure you are not on the left, but you sure as hell have the incomprehensible part down. And for the love of everything holy, you post 50 comments a day here. Have you still not figured out how to hyperlink things?
Look, everybody, I have to run, but let me say this-
I don’t know if enough was done, and I would agree with PMM’s assessment that it does look like the response is slow. But lost in this pile-on is the scope and the magnitude of this event.
I choose to try to figure out how to help, rather than sitting around sniping from the edges about what should have been done. If there are as many dead as I fear- there will be accountability, trust me. And it isn;t going to be just your hated George Bush who gets zinged. The entire state government and Democratic New Orleans government is going to get HAMMERED with what they failed to do.
But now is not the time to take bits and pieces and anecdotal evidence and build a case for or against them or the feds. We simply do not know (I don’t, at least)what is going on to any degree of certainty, and while people are saying this is a huge disaster, I don’t think people comprehend what a huge mess this is.
So just slow the hell down and go donate.
ppGaz
I don’t see your point. I’m criticizing the local and state authorities for what appears to me to be a rather obvious lack of planning.
On the Federal level …. I don’t see any massive failures, but I also say, let’s wait and see. The fact that I don’t see a massive failure should not be taken to mean that there was no massive failure, or that I am asserting no failure. It means, I don’t see them. I’m not a disaster preparedness expert, and don’t care to become one. If there were failures at the federal level, I’m sure that they will be exposed in time. I don’t see the rush to start barking about them today.
Joe Albanese
Cole:
How wonderful of you.
ppGaz
Heh. Just when I am ready to cut these guys some slack, Spud has to go and say something like that. Amazing.
People were anticipating the levee breach right here on this blog before the hurricane hit. CNN had a rather comprehensive assessment of the likely scenario online days before the hurricane hit.
Maybe the White House should watch more tv?
Ancient Purple
I think my disdain for the federal government’s response is because it has been lackluster at best. And I accuse all levels of the feds, not just Fearless Leader.
I just about lost my lunch when I heard Sen. Shelby of Alabama said that he was in contact with Sen. Frist and Speaker Hastert and that this item would be number one on their agenda when Congress returned to work on the Tuesday after Labor Day. Why am I out of line in thinking that Frist and Hastert should have summoned all of the Congress back to DC to handle this emergency now, not six days from now?
Meanwhile, Bush was too busy pickin’ and grinnin’ in the West and got back to DC in time to have a news conference telling us that rebuilding is going to be “hard work” and that he told people in the federal government to play nice and help the little people in the Gulf Coast out. Why am I out of line in thinking that Bush should have been back in DC on Monday, had naval ships on their way to the Gulf on Monday, had task forces and play nice policies in force on Monday, had a prime time, Oval Office address to the nation on Monday?
Instead, everything is just getting started and relief supplies and labor is sitting on a tarmac in Vancouver, BC, because the brain-dead people at Homeland Security won’t let them into the country to help. Why am I out of line in thinking that you get let assistance from Canada in and cut the red tape nonsense?
I guess I am as out of touch as you are, Mr. Cole.
Trent
Please describe the planning that occurred on the federal level.
Blue Neponset
People don’t ‘expect everything to be fixed’. They expect the Gov’t to do everything it can to aleviate deaths and damage. From the lumpy couch in my living room it doesn’t appear that the Gov’t is doing this.
It worries me to think you are right and what is happening now is the best case scenario if I ever have to ride out a natural disaster or terrorist incident. If this is the best the Gov’t can do, it needs to tell us how many days we will be on our own before help arrives the next time there is a hurricane warning or earthquake.
P.S. I assume that you don’t believe this is the best the Gov’t can do in response to a disaster, but I saw your ‘everything fixed’ hyperbole and responded in kind.
Trent
I could not agree more.
And i feel that way about the Democrats too. They would do themselves a world of good by returning to Washington now.
Public Servants, forsake your Labor Day and get to work!
ppGaz
Please explain why the fact that I don’t see something inspires you to speak as though I have to prove that it wasn’t there?
It’s a little early to be holding a trial here, even for the usual kangaroos who are anxious to get to court.
jobiuspublius
Awe, how romantic, a winter wonder land, and, when spring arrives, WVer rise out of their homes putting an end to their hibernation, singing BORN FREEEEEEE AS FREE AS THE SNOW BLOWSSSSSSS.
Other states have learned to deal with snow. But, when people like Allen get to be governor …
Don’t worry until recently, about half the country was out of touch. I’m sure some will insist on remaing that way. They can always repopulate the gulf coast and continue to enjoy their lackadaisical ways in grand style.
Tim F
I disagree with Joe’s more cynical take, in that John has been out front for the Red Cross and other relief organizations in the rightwing blogosphere. Tirades against Bush may be appropriate, and I believe that they are, but John’s doing a lot more immediate good promoting the Red Cross than pushing recriminations. Let’s at least acknowledge that the tangible good that’s being done can outweigh the completely intangible damage of not yet jumping into the Bush-bashing crusade with both feet. And I say that as a crusader.
ppGaz
I agree.
I have a hunch that the next year is going to be a dark time for the Spuds. There will be plenty of time and opportunity for piling on these feckless bastards later.
Boo
I don’t know about the Republicans, but Pelosi has called for a special session.
SomeCallMeTim
John-
Read href=”http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12528233.htm”>this, from maybe the best Washington Bureau around. I think you’re right – we should wait and see. But seriously, why is “accountability” such a hard concept for Republicans? Cripes, you guys own all three branches of the federal govt.
jobiuspublius
And it’s not just the gutting of the wetlands. It’s the gutting of FEMA’s responsibility for preparedness. FEMA has, essentially, been told to forget about preparedness. It seems that this non-sense runs in the family. Dear Leader SR.’s FEMA was a big basket of fat plums.
The idea of a Homeland Security department ala Dear Leader’s “vision” is just plain old unamarican. I just think that people do not understand what a disaster this government is.
As for everybody blaming Dear Leader, of course! That’s what happens when you make someone out to be a savior and he fails. Wasn’t that the plan? As long as he has access to the presidential pardon, his supporters will “stay the course” to ruin.
Don’t worry. I’m an equal opportunity indicter. I know that behind Dear Leader there scurries a plague of accomplices, sycophants, and enablers.
Accountability is a dirty word
Republican says that funding was inadequate:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/mmittelstadt/stories/090105dnnatkatcorp.129f298f.html
Rep. Bobby Jindal, R-La., recalls knocking on doors on Capitol Hill, making the case that it would be cheaper to fund hurricane protection projects rather than a huge disaster payment tab.
“Tragically, that’s turned out to be the case,” he said Wednesday, just back from a helicopter tour to assess the devastation in New Orleans. “We fought very hard for this. We argued very hard for this, and it’s an absolute tragedy.”
Darrell
I hope I’m wrong, but this looks like a clusterf*ck in the making. Where is Rudi Guilliani when you need him?
BTW, notice how the leftist kooks are repeatedly referring to Bush as “Dear leader”. I bet I’ve read that phrase 10 or 20 times on Balloon Juice alone in past couple of days… the kooks are just following marching orders I suppose.
pmm
Honestly, I’d say knee-jerk defenses of the administration are borne from a fear that reasonable criticisms will be exploited by the less-scrupled of the President’s critics. That means that folks who refrain from criticizing the President justly are being just as unprincipled as those who criticize him unjustly.
Dean Esmay’s new guy has a solid take on how the right shouldn’t be any more reflexive than the left on this disaster here: an excerpt that summarizes the post, though it ought to be read in full:
Anderson
Yglesias nails it. After pointing out that the consequences of a major storm’s hitting N.O. were well known:
Of course the state & city gov’ts failed too. That, in my experience, is what state & city gov’ts do. That’s why we’re supposed to have a serious federal disaster agency that’s got a plan for incredibly obvious things like this that everyone knew would happen eventually.
(Everyone, that is, except George “I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees” Bush.)
Anderson
Fuck, close tag.
ppGaz
I think he meant, “I don’t think anyone in my administration anticipated the breach of the levees.”
I guess they just had faith that the levees would hold.
Question: Should Faith in Levees be taught alongside hydrology?
Tim F
It works on so many levels.
ppGaz
It’s more congruent with reality than my own monikers for him, which include “Spud” and “Cowardly Asshole.”
Dear Leader is borrowed from Kim Jong Il, of course, and in many ways, it fits Bush better than it does the North Korean.
Darrell
now that is funny
Anderson
I think he meant, “I don’t think anyone in my administration anticipated the breach of the levees.”
Right, and we have a cabinet-level department that is supposed to anticipate such things.
Or, to quote myself:
You can e-mail your contributions to “Anderson for Dictator-for-Life” at the above address. No Amex or Discover, please.
jobiuspublius
It’s offical. Katrina is the new 9/11. Dumbass, again.
Jeff Alan
I’m a conservative by any measure, or maybe a conservative-libertarian. I’ve defended Bush until I’m hoarse, but I just do not understand how this man can be such an inept communicator. I never agree with the NYT; in fact I almost always laugh out loud at their blatant bias as just the usual lefty drivel, but the NYT’s editorial (the one you linked to) is actually one that I have little difficulty argueing with (at least when you wade past the usual horseshit–like Bush is responsible for global-warming). The first paragraph, in fact, is right on target.
I think everyone focused on this disaster (six New Orleans family-member refugees arrived at my Dallas home yesterday and will likely be here for months (okay, seven including the cat)) knows that this IS the worst disaster in American history. I certainly get that; New Orleans is/was my second home. What I don’t get is why the American President, who demonstrated so much sober leadership in his address to the nation from the Oval Office after 9-11, and prior to Afghanistan and Iraq, just seemed so–well "casual" is the word the NYT used–about the aftermath of Katrina. It’s a cliche but it’s true: perception IS reality.
Does this disaster exceed any President’s ability to respond within a timeframe that would satisfy any reasonable person? Of course. But great leaders always seem to be able to fake their way through it.
I think George Bush is a good man–not the sinister Hitler figure the morons like to vilify–, but with regard to communication skills and salesmanship (crucial components of being a great leader), AND with regard to his ability to hire people who are supposed to fill these gaps in his skill set, this disaster demonstrates more than any example that I can think of, that he is mediocre at best.
jobiuspublius
My work here is done. :)
But, it was fun. I think i’ll do it again, and again, and again, ……
ape
ppGaz. i also like the ‘Dear Leader’ honorific in relation to Dubya. but I don’t think it ‘fits Bush’ so much as it fits his supporters.. they have passed their affection to the useless dimwitted son of their former leader, and admit of no criticism no matter how plainly true.
John S – totally agree about man’s effect on his environment. it is sickening how many GOP/ rightists have immediately come out with statements of cast-iron certainty that this incident has not been affected by man’s actions, or that there is no scientific evidence for it.
how can they know? they certainly seem not to have read all the relevant papers.
i find this worse than the Theoplicans who come out with the ‘Wrath of God’ crap. at least they are irrelevant. people actually believe Rush’s drivel. anti-environmentalism actually influences Government policy.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Why is the Left so in love with PLANNING? As if some magic exilir of planning was out there, but was never achieved. How the F— does anyone here know what was going on behind the scenes? Same thing goes for the insurgency in Iraq. As if a good plan always = success.
As far as Bush’s budget cuts — wait, I thought Bush broke the budget. Which is it? Spend too much or too little? Furthermore, since when is it the Fed. Govt.’s job to protect everyone from everything. So let’s say the Feds did underfund NOLA, and NOLA’s politicians and citizens did just what to rectify that?
So when will George Soros and T Heinz Kerry start writing checks?
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
” people actually believe Rush’s drivel. anti-environmentalism actually influences Government policy.”
Why does Lefties equate conservation/environmentalism with govt. funding? No serious person on the right is against environmentalism, just don’t want the fed. govt. to do something which is not in their jurisdictions. Enviro concerns should generally be handled by states and local govts.
Oh, and by the way, find me a quote from Rush where he’s “against the environment.”
jobiuspublius
ROFLMAO I’m sure the insurance industry begs to differ.
Darrell
The right has ID kooks. The left’s kook religion is environmental extremism. “How dare you suggest that Katrina wasn’t caused by man. Where is your evidence!”.. “Repubs are destroying mother earth!”.
jobiuspublius
John Cole is not the only one out of touch. “We” all are. “We” tolerate our politicians. About half of us don’t even bother to vote and fewer still bother to keep tabs. We’re under the spell of Consumerism. It we can’t consume it, it makes no sense to us. Why else are politicians products?
Hippie Doug J
I’m sure glad Alasaka got that $250 million dollar bridge to connect a town of 50 people to the mainland :-)
Laura
One of the big issues here is the lack of leadership and inter-agency response.
New Orleans is one of the (or the) largest ports in the US. It is the 5th largest port in the world. This is a terrorist target. There should have been plans and contingency plans for dealing with problems. There should have been infrastructure in place to coordinate evacuation and rescue efforts. There should have been drills.
This incident is, to my mind, evidence that 4 years after 9/11 the US is completely unprepared for a terrorist strike. We even had warning about this, not much, granted, but important cities like NO should be better prepared for disasters like this.
ppGaz
Yes, I think it was a Republican who cut down the last tree on Easter Island.
But destruction of the planet will take a lot of time.
Meanwhile, Republicans are destroying my country.
That, I’m more worried about.
jobiuspublius
BTW, the “noone expected the levees to break” has an even funnier sibling. Something like “Noone expect a seriouse storm”. ROFLMAO
jobiuspublius
Hippie Doug J, spot on. Perfect.
ppGaz
Relevant to nothing we’ve said so far …. but I am sitting here watching what is certainly large eruptions of natural gas from beneath the water in New Orleans … at least one has caught fire. But these are BIG eruptions, a failed gas main, one would think.
Question: Why are we still pumping natural gas into the system in that city? Does that strike anyone besides me as being somewhat beyond crazy? The city didn’t have a plan to cut off electrical and gas service to areas that were likely to flood and remain flooded for weeks?
Hoo boy.
DougJ
I already have. I’m glad, John, that are shifting the focus from the people that have lost their homes and loved ones to the real victims of the hurricane — the elected officials who have to answer difficult questions on CNN. Why don’t you post some links on ways we can help these poor people, too, while you’re at it?
Gee, libruls, I’m glad to see you have so much understanding of human nature that you think anyone who cares about disaster victims couldn’t be an actual conservative and in fact must be a hippie. Way to be tolerant.
ppGaz
Yes, DougJTheImposter, or course.
Did you think, when you decided it would be fun to talk half of the country into declaring war on the other half, that “tolerance” would be one of the results?
Fuck you.
DougJ
And you think I have a problem with this?
Darrell
I’m not familiar with the design of the levee. Was it really so ridiculous to say that no one expected it to break? Are there numerous engineers who have said that the levees were a disaster waiting to happen or something similar? I haven’t read anything like that. The leftists seem to think it was ‘obvious’ that the levees would break/leak and use this to criticize Bush. But was it really so obvious? I honestly don’t know.. but I sure as hell wouldn’t take the word of dishonest leftists with no background in levee design
DougJ
Ppgaz, I’m just going to let all your cheap shots go. I don’t care what you think of me as long as you donate.
Joe Albanese
I just saw an incredibly horrible report on CNN. Seems like thousands of people have made it to the Convention Center where I imagine they had hoped they would find some help. Thousands. And they are dying right there on the spot. There is NO one from governement there. No one. Not federal, not state not local. No one. How many days after the hurricane is this? No food. No water. Nothing but death and despair for these American citizens. I can’t belive what I am seeing.
I can understand authorities not being able to get to every part of the city as they are overwhelmed but the Convention Center? on dry land? .. where THOUSANDS of citizens managed to get to and no authorities there? Why? Where are they? Same at the domed stadium, not very many officials, not very many national guard, not very many police officers. Women getting raped inside. Men with guns running the show. Why is this happening DAYS after the hurricane hit?
Yes, I understand it is an overwhelming disaster but I still dont ‘understand why we could drop pallets of food by helicopter in Sri Lanka but we can’t get food and water to our own citizens DAYS after the hurricane hit.
Homeland Security? yeah….
Aaron
I will have to vote Democrat in the future. Not because I believe they will do any better. But because I will not have to hear all the bullhockey.
Jimmy Carter took the least vacation of any president. Let me know where you think he will rank in history.
ppGaz
Oh, brother.
I didn’t think you could embarrass yourself more after yesterday, but I was wrong. There seems to be no bottom to the depths of you, Darrell.
ppGaz
I don’t care. None of yours will be overlooked.
Aaron
Oh, and we dropped pallets of food in Sri Lanka probably 5 days after it hit. and how many pallets?
I lived through a 7.6 earthquake in Taiwan…when it’s that big of a disaster NOTHING makes you ready.
DougJ
Actually, Darrel, yes. I followed the hurricane that almost hit New Orleans last year and they talked a lot about the possibility of this. They also talked about it n the days leading up to this one, too.
Look, it would have been expensive to shore up the levees, restore wetlands, etc. but Blanco and the people at FEMA should have been on it. This should be the end of Blanco politically, and a fire needs to be lit under the White House’s ass to get FEMA moving in the right direction.
Darrell
No doubt the levees were designed for the possibility of strong hurricanes. I’ll ask again – was it obvious to people in a position to know (civil engineers?) that the levees would break or leak or was it common opinion that the levees were so overdesigned that they would never break short of a nuclear bomb? Lefties here seem to think it was obvious the levees would breach… all I’m asking is was it soo unreasonable to say “no one expected the levees to breach”?
Joe Albanese
wonder if John still thinks the government is doing the best job it can?
.
Darrell
thanks. If you’re correct, then it appears it really was a dumbass thing to say that “no one expected the levee to leak”
ppGaz
Correct you are, DougJTheMysterious. In fact, I first heard of the “worst case” scenario a good twelve or so years ago, maybe longer. In fact, CNN had a rather detailed description of exactly what is happening now …. on their website LAST WEEK, complete with the aftermath of this widespread flooding.
It has been known for a very long time that a direct hit on New Orleans by a major hurricane would cause just this disaster. The levees were not intended to prevent this. They were intended to provide protection against much more “ordinary” weather and flood events. Noone expected them to protect against Katrina.
Except Darrell, and apparently, the people in the White House.
Nice to see you on the side of truth, there, Dougie.
ppGaz
Your apology is accepted. I take back almost every rotten thing I’ve said about you. Which ones exactly, we can discuss later.
capelza
Darrell..you never watch the Discovery Channel? Shows about the levees and New Orleans flooding have been common for quite some time.
You can call them liberal shows and even ..gasp..scientists, but what they have been saying for a long time has come to pass.
DougJ
Darrell,
I’m going to include a little bit about predictions about the levee a friend sent me (I think from Howard Kurtz’s column on the Washington Post). I don’t know if you feel the same way I do about New Orleans, but it makes me sick to think this could have been prevented. Again, our energies should be focused on helping those in need, but we should also think about how to stop this sort of thing from happening again.
Joe Albanese
but what happens when experts tell Bush things he doesn’t want to hear? well.. they get fired right? Think Shenseki. Think Paul O’neil…. Think Richard Clarke. So why is any surprise that this guy got fired:
Just business as usual for the Bush Team
Joe Albanese
and back to the Convention Center:
Trent
Oooo, we’d hate to offend your smear-centric, kill-the-messenger scrupled morals.
ppGaz
Well, I have to go out and about for several hours, but CNN, as I write, is telling a story of the complete collapse of the situation in New Orleans. It’s a tale of massive failure of government on a large scale.
There will be a political price to pay for this, one hopes, down the road when it can all be assessed.
I don’t have any more money to give the Red Cross. What I am wondering right now is …. where is the relief? Where is the military?
Joe Albanese
Disgraceful performance by our elected leaders, city, state and federal:
.
Tim F
The Earth revolves around the sun too. You don’t have to ‘believe’ it because it’s fairly well-proven.
ape
Ohboy asked for an example of when Rush Limbaugh has been ‘against the environment’.
Rush is a radio presenter. Not much of what he says is available to search.
However, I have heard him many times celebrate extinction, or at least demand that no effort be made to prevent it. I have heard him make this argument in relation to (i think) condors, toads and native Hawaiian birds. and i don’t listen to him often. this is one of his most frequent themes.
his theory on such matters is summarised in one of his books:
“If the owl can’t adapt to the superiority of humans, then screw it.”
so the argument runs through the scale: ‘(1) it isn’t true that animals are facing extinction. (2) animals are facing extinction but legislation makes things worse. (3) animals are facing extinction but there’s nothing we can do. (4)animals are facing extinction but humans come first (Rush often compares a SPECIES with property rights: e.g. ‘why should the law care for this stupid toad? which matters first, the toad or property rights’? as though the tiny accommodation to protect the species was a destruction of property rights, and the toad were an individual toad only) to (5) animals are becoming extinct but screw ’em.
Rush uses all these arguments (despite their mutual incompatibility). i think it’s fair to call this anti-environmentalism. it’s a good lesson on the way the right think about science. do you think scientific observation and theory is the driving force behind this philosophy?
the right runs through exactly the same scale on anthropogenic climate change. the key point to note is that that they sing in harmony with each other wherever they are on the scale, assuming that the arguments are mutually reinforcing; ie, they dont give a shit about the facts.
Trent
It wouldn’t have been expensive. All of the numbers that i’ve seen are in the 10-20 million dollar range. That’s bubblegum money for our government.
One might call it a slam dunk…
Guys, this is more than partisan bickering. This is the Left’s worst fear. Democrats have always been terrified of the damage that Bush was doing to this country. And now the consequences of his incompetence, arrogance and cronyism have hit us full force.
This is more than making political hay of a situation. This is outrage. America-loving, patriotic, flag-waving, Red/Blue be-damned, we’re-all-Americans outrage at a man who has taken our country from it’s highest point to one of its lowest in a short five years.
And outrage at the Right for demonizing us for being reality-based, for thinking in nuance, for actually caring about the effects of our nation’s actions. Demonized for just being Democrats.
So don’t cry victim and whine when the backlash comes. It’s long overdue and fully deserved.
Joe Albanese
This was written in December of 2001:
Read the whole article it will send chills up your spine. But according to our president:
What a lying sack of dog manure.
Joe Albanese
and back to the Convention Center:
Oh, btw, the hurricane hit land early Monday morning. It is now Thursday afternoon. Four days and we can’t get food and water to our citizens in the middle of one of our great cities. My heart is broken and my anger is seething.
Joe Albanese
but they should stop their complaining, dont’ they know what Scotty McCellan is telling the press?
ape
Trent – superb summary.
Trent
God help this Administration if this is true. From AmericaBlog, Drudge and PageSix:
DougJ
I heard more like $100 million or more for the wetlands. Still, a slam bunk IMHO.
Joe Albanese
who was it that, when told the people had no bread to eat, said, “let them eat cake then”? Condi Rice?
Joe Albanese
and back at the Convention Center:
.
Kathleen
You are out-of-touch sir. Everything is pointing to a massive disaster BECAUSE of the poor planning. AND that things are getting worse by the minute for the people stuck in New Orleans. No food, no water, no transportation out of there. And FEMA et al should be there now, and should have been better prepared. I am not saying you are a Bush-apologist at all. But your expectations for disaster relief are shockingly low. What have they been doing for two years? as Josh Marshall pointed out – this isn’t that much different from a dirty bomb scenario. WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING?
Kathleen
oops – meant four years.
Narvy
An engineer or local official interviewed on NPR this morning said the levees were designed to withstand a category 3 storm. Katrina was a 5. So yes, it appears reasonable to have expected the levee to break.
Mike
“Trent Says:
God help this Administration if this is true. From AmericaBlog, Drudge and PageSix:
According to Drudge, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has recently enjoyed a little Broadway entertainment. And Page Six reports that she’s also working on her backhand with Monica Seles. So the Gulf Coast has gone all Mad Max, women are being raped in the Superdome, and Rice is enjoying a brief vacation in New York. We wish we were surprised.
What does surprise us: Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, “How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are d”
Bad form maybe, but what exactly is the SECRETARY of STATE supposed to do in this situation? Negotiate with the looters?
Mike
“Trent Says:
So don’t cry victim and whine when the backlash comes. It’s long overdue and fully deserved.”
Careful, the “glee” in your voice is showing…
Narvy
Re the President saying
and the comment
I don’t think he was lying, I think he really believes it.
I know, I know, it’s hard to believe that anyone in this administration, let alone the President, would ignore evidence to the contrary, but there you are.
Trent
How about get clearance for the Canadian Search and Rescue team to enter the US?
Or how about doing what i have learned at all my jobs: You help out people in other departments when it’s crunch time!
Mike
“ape Says:
how can they know? they certainly seem not to have read all the relevant papers.”
How do you know otherwise? You certainly seem not to have read all the relevant papers.
Narvy
Oh, I don’t know, maybe refrain a bit from conspicuous consumption as a sign of respect for the suffering of others?
Mike
“Narvy Says:
Bad form maybe, but what exactly is the SECRETARY of STATE supposed to do in this situation?
Oh, I don’t know, maybe refrain a bit from conspicuous consumption as a sign of respect for the suffering of others?”
What part of “bad form maybe” did you not understand?
Anyway, none of this matters, I’ve had it with listening to crap from the Leftists on this site. You guys enjoy yourselves, you’ll be glad to know I’m done here, there’s no point in it.
Narvy
I guess it was the part that said
which I thought deserved an answer.
I’m sorry you feel that way. I rather enjoy these constructive, well-reasoned dialogs. So long, and have a nice life.
jobiuspublius
It’s relief in our voices. We wish for glee.
DougJ
I agree — who cares what Condi did or didn’t do yesterday? Does she work for FEMA? I thought not.
I’m all for critiquing the government’s response on this at all levels (local, state, federal) but when you start picking on the shopping habits of someone whose job is mostly foreign policy, you’ve gone too far. If the head of FEMA or Homeland Security were buying shoes and going to shows, you’d have a point. But they’re not, and you don’t.
jobiuspublius
Condi is just living it up before she devotes the rest of her life to appologizing for Dear Leader and trying to mop up after him.
DougJ
The talk about Condi is just cheap shots, people. There are plenty of real failures here, including those of the administration of your favorite whipping boy, George W Bush. Why don’t you focus on those instead of taking childish cheap shots at Condi? Or are you really as lacking in substance as I’ve always though? I’m trying to charitable these days, but you’re not giving me much help.
Oliver
When it snowed in Massachusetts it got plowed up before it even got settled in the ground. Damn northeastern libruls.
Leslie
I’m with you on this one, John. Shit happens, plain and simple. Be glad you’re out of touch with these clowns.
DougJ
Let’s get rid of seatbelts, air bags, vaccines, and hospitals, too, then, while we’re at it. After all, s**t happens, why take the basic safety measures necessary to prevent death and destruction when it does?
jobiuspublius
You have no idea how much we’ve help you. You should be grateful.
Narvy
Well, as something worthy of criticism it certainly doesn’t compare with “I do not remember any reports to us, a kind of strategic warning, that planes might be used as weapons.” But I think it shows a lack of [pick one or more] sensitivity, humanity, sympathy, empathy, understanding, thoughtfulness, …
DougJ
Narvy, maybe it looks insensitive, but don’t we have bigger things to worry about right now? And again, if she were the head of FEMA or Homeland Security, I wouldn’t be saying this. But she’s not.
Narvy
We certainly do. The New Orleans catastrophe, its consequences, President Bush’s war in Iraq, Secretary Rice’s conduct of foreign policy, government failure to fund obviously needed safety programs, disregard of threats to the environment, the monstrous ineptitude of the Department of Homeland Security…
You win this one, no more talk about Secretary Rice’s shopping trips.
Jess
DougJ,
You’re right, we shouldn’t get sidetracked–but this is so symbolic of this administration’s apparent indifference to the misery of our fellow Americans that it’s hard not to get enraged. I have friends in NO, and I’m praying that they got out in time (haven’t heard anything yet), and my frustration and concern is compounded by the fact that I’m too broke to donate anything significant to Red Cross, so hearing about Condi’s shopping spree is infuriating right now. But as you point out, we need to stay focused on practical issues. And if we’re going to be critical, let’s at least criticize the right people for real failures.
I get the sense from the tone of your comments that you have connections in NO as well–if so, I hope they’re okay. This just makes me sick; I hope this will shock some sense into people regarding intelligent long-term planning and allocation of resources, but it probably won’t.
carot
“Careful, the “glee” in your voice is showing…”
No one seems to complain about Republican gee in their voices every time something bad happens in “socialist” Europe.
The problem here is more than accountability, it is deterrence. Police give people larger sentences to prison not just to punish them, but so other people thinking of committing the same crime might think twice about it. Conservatives should know this, it’s their main policy towards crime.
In the same way government runs by deterrence, you punish politicians and bureaucrats so other will think twice about screwing up their jobs. The Bush administration though is deterrence free, nothing bad ever happens to a Bush appointee not matter what they do.
So other conservative bureaucrats and politicians have a natural expectation that they will not suffer if they screw up, as long as they appear loyal.
The only way things will change from this disaster is if heads roll with those in charge. It doesn’t matter so much whether it is completely fair or not, only that the message gets through to the others screwing things up right now, preventing the next disaster.
People might think all this criticism against the ruling conservatives is unfair, filled with glee, said in the heat of the moment, whatever. The point is this is the only incentive these people ever get to do their job better, if people light a fire under their asses whether they are conservative or liberal.
When in the last 5 years has any Bush official been made to pay for their screwups? So why on Earth would they feel more motivated to avoid screwups next time?
Fred
Why oh why ape (first post) is it the feds responciblilty to give money to New Orleans to help them prepare for a hurricane? How come “hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans” is not New Orleans’ problem to solve? If they thought that it was underfunded and needed more money, why didn’t they fund it?
I am sorry to break it to you but not everything that goes wrong is GWB’s fault.