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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Abramoff News

Abramoff News

by Tim F|  December 2, 20051:59 pm| 67 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Once again call me late to the party. Let’s make it clear that if Jack Abramoff decides to flip, the GOP has a huge problem on their hands. As I said in my first post on the subject, Abramoff acted as the bagman for a vast network of corrupt and largely illegal cash reserves set up to benefit the GOP.

It’s easy to see this as a perversion of lobbying, which it is, and since lobbying permeates DC the problem is “the system” it indicts all of the parties and we all might as well shrug and move on. See, the Republicans thought you might have that reflex so Norquist, DeLay and Jack Abramoff kicked off a plan (more here) some years back to make DC lobbying an explicitly Republican operation, to revamp the system in to one of, by and for the Republican party. They called it the ‘K street project,’ after the avenue where the top lobbying firms usually reside. It worked pretty well for them.

The problem with owning the lobbying machinery is that when the lobbying machinery turns into a disgusting cancer you own that too. Some Democrats will go down, I have no doubt, and that’s all for the better. But if this smoldering kindling every truly catches fire you’ll see an amazing number of Reps, aides and hangers-on from the right side of the aisle disappear in smoke.

Today’s big story suggests that Abramoff is facing “increasing pressure” to flip. Pressure? You think? That doesn’t sound like news. Abramoff already faces jail time, his cronies have flipped and prosecutors have his records. God knows he’s faced pressure for a while. Reading between the lines, this suggests to me that the NYT has learned that Abramoff is negotiating a deal but can’t say so yet, except to refer elliptically to rumors. If that’s true this story would serve as a kind of placeholder, like a billboard that says ‘watch this space,’ so that when it breaks into the open they can point back and say toldjah-so. Blogically-speaking it’s one of Josh Marshall’s most annoying habits. So, watch this space.

Ten-gallon h/t

Read our previous coverage: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

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Reader Interactions

67Comments

  1. 1.

    Marcos

    December 2, 2005 at 2:06 pm

    2006 keeps looking better and better.

  2. 2.

    Perry Como

    December 2, 2005 at 2:21 pm

    Both sides do it, so I don’t see what the problem is. If things are really that bad though, expect to see him end up in the Clinton Body Count.

  3. 3.

    jaime

    December 2, 2005 at 2:35 pm

    Yeah…If 50 Republicans and 10 Democrats get pinched, the Abramoff scandal has obviously touched both sides equally.

  4. 4.

    DougJ

    December 2, 2005 at 2:36 pm

    Bribery, gangland-style executions, money laundering? All inside baseball stuff. Once the War on Christmas propaganda gets ramped up, it will all be forgotten.

    Come on people, have you forgotten that there are Target employees saying “Happy Holidays”? We’re at war here.

  5. 5.

    Nikki

    December 2, 2005 at 2:37 pm

    There have already been attempts to implicate Reid and another Dem in this mess, but turns out it ain’t so.

  6. 6.

    feral1

    December 2, 2005 at 2:43 pm

    But, but what about Jim Wright and Torricelli and Whitewater, don’t forget Whhiiiiiiiiiiiite Waaaaaterrrrrrrr!

  7. 7.

    Paddy O'Shea

    December 2, 2005 at 3:01 pm

    I take it the Freeps won’t be dusting off their copies of the theme song to “Flipper” any time soon.

  8. 8.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 3:02 pm

    Nikki, what do you mean? I didn’t hear that Reid had been cleared. Can you provide the links? I think many here would appreciate it.

    As for Jackie A flipping, if they have him on ordering the execution(s) from testimony of his cronies, then for sure he’s trying to work out a deal to stay out of the gas chamber or reduce his sentencing to something less than life.

  9. 9.

    demimondian

    December 2, 2005 at 3:10 pm

    Bribery, gangland-style executions, money laundering? All inside baseball stuff. Once the War on Christmas propaganda gets ramped up, it will all be forgotten.Yer so right, DougJ. I’m proud to associtate with you here on Buffoon Juice.

    I look forward to your support in my next campaign.

  10. 10.

    Stormy70

    December 2, 2005 at 3:11 pm

    New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff’s tribal clients.

    Wow, I bet Dorgan’s being fair in his investigation.

  11. 11.

    Paddy O'Shea

    December 2, 2005 at 3:12 pm

    Lines: Flipping does present a bit of a moral and personal dilemma for Mr. Abramoff, you know. Will he cravenly turn stool pigeon to save his own ass while fully knowing that doing so will help to send cuddlesome love bunnies like Tom DeLay and Dennis Hastert to the pokey?

    I can only imagine the sleepless nights Jack must be suffering as he struggles with that one.

  12. 12.

    Gratefulcub

    December 2, 2005 at 3:19 pm

    IF he flips?

    They have him. His partner is testifying against him. The only way to stay our of prison, or at least to drastically reduce the prison time, is to give up bigger fish.

    And, he has the morals and scrupples of a corrupt GOP lobbyist.

    Stormy,

    Dorgan must go. The Dems should sniff around themselves, and if he appears to be guilty of something substantial, they should be the ones throwing him to the wolves.

    But, this isn’t some bipartisan problem. No one bribes the powerless for favors.

    Obviously, some dems are going to get caught up in this…..please please please nonsectarian holiday clause, let it be Leiberman.

  13. 13.

    Steve S

    December 2, 2005 at 3:19 pm

    I don’t know how much this will really touch congressional critters. Honestly, there’s a fine line between giving someone money because you support them, and giving them money because of quid pro quo.

    For Reid, it’s very likely just because of support. Reid would oppose gambling in any state outside of Vegas, just because that’s what he represents.

    It’s also highly doubtful Reid would have engaged in quid pro quo, considering he used to be with the gambling regulatory of Nevada back in the day… and he’d been involved in attempted bribery then and refused it.

  14. 14.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 3:22 pm

    Poor Stormy, grasping at the smallest of straws and coming up empty.

    Dorgan

    Now read that link, read the title again, and tell me what is missing? Think Corpus Christi’s reporter might be slightly, ummmm, biased beyond all fucking recognition of credibility?

    Somehow people like Stormy have gone from “tribes that also donated to Abramoff donated to Dorgan” to “Abramoff and Dorgan caught in sexual position in Oval Office”.

    Are the tribes under investigation? No. Yet drunken sots like Stormy are so ready to cast suspicion and doubt on someone they’ve never heard of, they’ll find anything and make a huge deal out of it.

    Yes, Stormy, you disgust me in every way possible. You are far more partisan than ANY liberal on this site, and you happily wallow in that filth.

  15. 15.

    Gratefulcub

    December 2, 2005 at 3:29 pm

    Lines,
    Come on. After reading the story, it is obvious that Dorgan is a crook. $20,000 is the same as accepting a boat for your vote.

  16. 16.

    Stormy70

    December 2, 2005 at 3:36 pm

    Yes, Stormy, you disgust me in every way possible. You are far more partisan than ANY liberal on this site, and you happily wallow in that filth.

    Merry Christmas, you filthy animal.

    BWHAAAHAAAA!

  17. 17.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 3:38 pm

    For a reporter to use the title AP: Abramoff investigator used lobbyist’s skybox, helped client but NEVER actually discuss the skybox, to write that “Dorgan says he’s never met Abramoff.” But never ever ever write anything factual about the skybox? Thats Stormy land, it feeds people like Stormy that desperately need to believe that Republican slime is TRUE! I mean, holy hell in a handbasket, people, did we not know that Dorgan would be slimed within 2 or 3 days of his name becoming public as a lead in the investigation? Plame-Game anyone? Slime, destroy, mimic and if none of that works, get them when they go for a short flight. I’m kidding on the last part, if that isn’t obvious. I’m all ready to start persecuting Democrats linked to Abramoff, because if they are, they are probably back-stabbing worthless Democrats like Lie-berman and Zell “wanna duel?” Miller. People that will sell out country and common-sense for a little head pat from their Republican masters.

  18. 18.

    Rob

    December 2, 2005 at 3:41 pm

    Once again great post Tim. Why can’t John ever write this stuff. In fact, I’m suprised he didn’t add note at the bottom saying that the whole post was crap.

    BTW-Who is Stormy? Is there no GOP talking point that can’t be defended?

  19. 19.

    Stormy70

    December 2, 2005 at 3:43 pm

    I linked to an article from ABC News written by the AP reporters. I don’t know what the hell you are ranting about. It seems you are shocked that shennagins are going on between lobbyists and members of Congress. Shocked!

  20. 20.

    DougJ

    December 2, 2005 at 3:44 pm

    Stormster, what about Tammany Hall, weren’t they Democrats? And while we’re at it, there was a lot of corruption in the 17th century British parliament in the Whig party which some see as having given birth to the modern Democratic party.

  21. 21.

    Gratefulcub

    December 2, 2005 at 3:45 pm

    I’m convinced John got Tim so he wouldn’t have to write these posts anymore. It’s tough to lean right, speak moderately, and then attract a horde of lefties to your site.

  22. 22.

    Stormy70

    December 2, 2005 at 3:54 pm

    DougJ – Let the chips fall where they may, but the people are kidding themselves if they think Congress, as a whole is full of sqeaky, clean politicians. I usually skip these posts, because I don’t really care about it yet. Info is still coming out, and all the facts are not known. I posted the article because I had a feeling noone had seen it here.

  23. 23.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 3:55 pm

    Lines,

    You’re expecting Stormy to spot right-wing bias in the press? Please. The only stories she believes are the ones planted by right-wing operatives like Republican lobbyist Jimmy Faircloth. The rest is all that nasty “liberal media bias” and their despicable ‘facts’ and ‘research’, remember?

  24. 24.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 3:55 pm

    Slime, destroy, mimic

    Lines, pot calling kettle black? All you do is slime people who don’t agree with you, i.e. Stormy (“you disgust me in every way possible”) and any other Republican (Joe Lieberman). Really I don’t see that many rightists going after people in this insulting way, on here or in the media. The left has been acting like spolied children, I’ll say again. They need to grow up, and soon.

  25. 25.

    Dave Ruddell

    December 2, 2005 at 3:55 pm

    It’s tough to lean right, speak moderately, and then attract a horde of lefties to your site

    And yet John somehow managed to do it all by his lonesome.

  26. 26.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:02 pm

    I’m trying to work up an interest in this Jack Abramoff story and just haven’t been able to yet. Just not that interested in what happens to Tom Delay or various other congressmen. I assume that many of them corrupt and they have groupies that are even more corrupt. It doesn’t seem to change any philosophical course of this country. But maybe when we get the full story later it will interest me more.

  27. 27.

    searp

    December 2, 2005 at 4:03 pm

    DougJ: History lessons do not alter the here-and-now. We have a bad corruption problem, don’t you think it would be worthwhile to do what we can, now, about it?

    Anyone who lives in Washington knows that the current Republican party power structure is fused with K-street lobbyists and corporate interests. The levels right below congresspeople and Cabinet officers are so intermingled that titles don’t really matter anymore. It is all just one huge morass of people abusing our government for their purposes.

    I call it corruption, and the inevitable result of putting a bunch of government-hating corporate shills in charge of the … government. Ask yourself why people like that want to have anything to do with government. It ain’t to make this country a better place for your average citizen, I’ll tell you that.

    I deal with this environment for a living. It is much worse than ever before, just one big machine dedicated to stuffing your tax dollars in their pockets. You should be outraged, not saying others did it 100 years ago.

  28. 28.

    Perry Como

    December 2, 2005 at 4:11 pm

    Since no one else has hit upon it…

    Why aren’t we hearing the good things about systemic government corruption? What about all the jobs for investigators and prison officials this will create? Think of all the lawyers that will make $1000/hr to defend our elected officials!

  29. 29.

    John S.

    December 2, 2005 at 4:13 pm

    Really I don’t see that many rightists going after people in this insulting way, on here or in the media.

    This gets MY vote for most ludicrous post of the day.

    Seriously, scs, if you believe that the left is MORE guilty of insulting their opponents and sliming them than the right – in here or in the media – then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

  30. 30.

    Otto Man

    December 2, 2005 at 4:15 pm

    Since no one else has hit upon it…

    Why aren’t we hearing the good things about systemic government corruption? What about all the jobs for investigators and prison officials this will create? Think of all the lawyers that will make $1000/hr to defend our elected officials!

    Actually, Stormy’s argument that this is just politics as usual came close. But rest assured, we’ll see some right-wing nut write a paean to Republican corruption as evidence of the triumphant march of free markets into stodgy old Washington D.C.

  31. 31.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 4:16 pm

    scs,

    Comedy gold.

    Apparently all the news over on the Rightie blogs is about how horrible those Democrats are, and how they need to “grow up” or clap louder or stop being traitors or do this or do that. Sour grapes.

    Meanwhile, you can’t muster up any real indignation towards actual malfeasance and corruption on the Right. Republicans are corrupt, yawn. But those darn Democrats really need to shape up!

  32. 32.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 4:21 pm

    It’s that new Republican big government trickle down theory at work.

    1. Borrow, spend, and siphon gobs of money from wherever, however.

    2. Use the money to elect and enrich Republican politicians, lobbyists, lobbying firms, business interests, PR firms, media outlets, etc., etc.

    3. PROFIT!! (or: I don’t know about you, but the economy’s doing GREAT for me!)

  33. 33.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 4:24 pm

    Look, its one thing for a couple blog commenters to call each other dipshits, that happens all the time. I’ve been called many names on here by “rightists”. What I don’t get is why anyone would believe a hastily thrown together slime piece going after an investigator into a Republican corruption scheme. Its just a repeatable cycle where anyone that dares to investigate, indict or charge a Republican is immediately slimed beyond recognition.

    Don’t you get tired of those stories constantly being wrong, scs? My point is that Stormy doesn’t, she feeds on them like Cheney feeds on fetuses.

    Fitzgerald, Michael Shiavo, Ronnie Earle and more. Yes there is corruption on both sides, yes it needs to be dug out and punished. Right now people like Stormy are rushing forward to push the slime as fast as they can on any Democrat that dares to call a Republican on their crimes and corruption, usually in an official manner. I hear allegations of corruption in the Democratic ranks, but I never see an indictment or a follow through. Why not? Empty sliming, it would appear.

    Oh well, I’ve ranted enough

  34. 34.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:27 pm

    that the left is MORE guilty of insulting their opponents

    First of all I’m not a reader of really right wing sites so I’m not too aware of what they say. I stick to the mainstream press usually. I do watch Fox news on occasion though, which is supposed to be the right wing devil, and hardly see anyone (visciously) insult moderate lefties. Hannity might get a little harsh on occasion, but he doesn’t say anything that’s too crazy usually (like Dean’s, “I hate Republicans.”) I don’t hear Republican politicians insulting the Dems like vice versa. So in terms of mainstream Righties, I just don’t hear it.

    The other thing is that Dems act like they are such the victim of “slime” attacks, when they are the one doing most of the sliming lately. Little pot and kettle action there.

  35. 35.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:30 pm

    Right now people like Stormy are rushing forward to push the slime as fast as they can on any Democrat

    She quoted an ABC news article about the investigator taking money from the defendant. That’s not really sliming him, that’s just a factual tidbit. You don’t have to go ballistic on it.

  36. 36.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 4:30 pm

    scs:

    is that what Hannity seems like when your head is shoved that far up your ass?

  37. 37.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 4:35 pm

    scs:

    You didn’t even frigging read it, did you? He took money from tribes that ALSO gave money to Abramoff. The whole charge is scurrious and a very blatant smear job, but you bought into it whole hog, just like Stormy. You so desire to have your side “win” and be correct, you accept allegations against Democrats. Why? It took me about 10 seconds to find an article that gets Dorgan’s side of things where he says he’s never met Abramoff. That seems a pretty easy claim to disprove, so where is it? If it comes up, great! I’ll believe it when I see it, but for now the claim that Dorgan did anything with Abramoff has lost all factual basis and is nothing more than a vicious rumor.

  38. 38.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 4:36 pm

    Adding to the list…

    Anyone with the last name of “Clinton”
    Al Gore
    Paul O’Neill
    Richard Clarke
    Joe Wilson
    Howard Dean
    John Kerry
    John Murtha

    Also:
    France
    The UN
    Old Europe
    The Media
    Hollywood
    Liberals
    Michael Moore
    moveon.org
    Ted Kennedy
    Cindy Sheehan
    Harry Reid
    Dan Rather
    etc.

  39. 39.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:36 pm

    when your head is shoved that far up your ass

    I rest my case. A well reasoned reply. You know, I think a lot of you on here would have had different roles if you had been born in different times and places. I can see some of you as revolutionary Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution or agitators in the French Revolution. I suppose society needs people like you who get carried away with ideology cause if everyone was like me, well, I would have been too lazy to up and revolt. So Vive Liberte! (sp?)

  40. 40.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:40 pm

    You didn’t even frigging read it, did you?

    No I’ll admit I didn’t. Like I said, I don’t really care about this case yet, since I don’t really like Tom Delay. But I think what Stormy did, to reference an article about the guy, was in the fair bounds of debate. Your choice was then to rebut and point out to everyone what you just did, sans the insulting editorializing.

  41. 41.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 4:40 pm

    Sure, scs. Calling people traitors and terrorist sympathizers is actually a common greeting amongst Republicans. Sure.

    Oh, and how could I forget Jane Fonda! D’oh!

  42. 42.

    DougJ

    December 2, 2005 at 4:44 pm

    PB, you’re forgetting so many:

    Aaron Broussard
    Barbara Streissand
    Kanye West
    Larry Wilkerson
    Brent Scowcroft
    Bruce Springsteen
    Keith Olbermann
    Jon Stewart
    Sean Penn
    Justice Kennedy
    Anyone with the last name Kennedy
    the Dixie Chicks

    Traitors all. It’s their fault the public isn’t hearing all the good news about Iraq.

  43. 43.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:45 pm

    Calling people traitors and terrorist sympathizers is actually a common greeting amongst Republicans

    I’m talking about mainstream Republicans. Anyway, I’m just telling you about my recent impressions. That’s just how I see it.

  44. 44.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 4:47 pm

    scs,

    Is Hannity and Colmes mainstream? How about Ann Coulter? Or does she just show up there by accident all the time. Michelle Malkin? Bill O’Reilly? You probably see more of it than I do, I rarely watch Fox, and generally I can’t stand to do so for very long either.

  45. 45.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:47 pm

    PB and DougJ, most of those people you listed STARTED with the sliming. Babs, the Dixie Chicks, Kanye West etc. They started the with the uncivilized discourse. Once you start, you are “fair game”, as Rove put it.

    P.S. Who slimed Keith Olberman?

  46. 46.

    DougJ

    December 2, 2005 at 4:49 pm

    Stormy and SCS, if you had to pick one, just one, person to label a traitor and terrorist-sympathizer, who would you go with? Would it be French spy Joe Wilson, arch-criminal Aaron Broussard, or Sean Penn? Or one of the others? Think about it for a minute and decide which liberal is the greatest threat to Western Christian Jesus-Based civilization.

  47. 47.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:52 pm

    Is Hannity and Colmes mainstream? Colmes is. Hannity, not so much, but on TV anyway, he doesn’t just call people”disgusting” or that he “hates” Democrats. He pretty much just rips into whomever he is debating

    How about Ann Coulter? She is not mainstream

    Michelle Malkin? I never heard her really insult anyone on TV. Don’t read her site though.

    Bill O’Reilly? He doesn’t really “insult”. He does have disdain for what he calls “secular progressives” though.

  48. 48.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 4:52 pm

    I would have to go with Sean Penn.

  49. 49.

    Paddy O'Shea

    December 2, 2005 at 4:54 pm

    Looks like even the Iraqis think their military sucks, and that Junior was talking out his ass when he said they were ready the other day.

    Disappointment is never a surprise when George W. Bush is involved.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051202/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_security_forces_2

  50. 50.

    John S.

    December 2, 2005 at 4:57 pm

    I do watch Fox news on occasion though, which is supposed to be the right wing devil, and hardly see anyone (visciously) insult moderate lefties.

    More comedy gold!

    I guess one has to be a ‘lefty’ to be aware of when someone on the right is insulting you. Like when Ann Coulter goes on O’Reilly and calls the ACLU Nazi block watchers.

  51. 51.

    John S.

    December 2, 2005 at 5:00 pm

    PB and DougJ, most of those people you listed STARTED with the sliming. Babs, the Dixie Chicks, Kanye West etc.

    Oh boy, I almost missed ANOTHER gem.

    I guess it’s ok for right-wing pundits to attack everyone on the left – particualrly political and media figures – because of the actions of entertainers.

    Because entertainers hold the same place in public discourse as journalists and pundits.

  52. 52.

    Lines

    December 2, 2005 at 5:01 pm

    JC goes off about misleading statements about White Phosphorous and how it goes from blogs to mainstream media, and now I understand how he feels so strongly. When I see something like the Dorgan rumor fed downwards from news agencies to bloggers, where is gets spun, twisted and gains momentum, then is regurgitated in the news media later as “Dorgan accepted bribes from Abramoff”, it just pisses me off to no end. I really don’t understand how someone that regularly reads this blog can echo shit like that without fact checking themselves for 10 seconds, first. Stormy is blatently trying to slop the slime onto Dorgan without ever even checking the facts, and she’s only doing it because she wants it to be true.

  53. 53.

    Paddy O'Shea

    December 2, 2005 at 5:05 pm

    Lines: You shouldn’t sweat it so much. The Dorgan smear is such obvious bullshit the only reaction you should have is laughter.

    By the time all these scandals shake out there will be more Republicans in jail than in both Houses of Congress combined.

  54. 54.

    Stormy70

    December 2, 2005 at 5:10 pm

    What a bunch of leftist crybabies here. 95% of this board is far left, yet you all freak out when someone does not agree with you, and the personal insults spew forth. scs is just stating how she sees things, but Lines has to go all Moonbat on her ass.

    It is not my fault the people listed are idiotic liars, especially Broussard, who evacuated the people manning the levy pumps before the hurricane. He also lied his ass off on National TV, so much so that Russert had to clear it up on a future program.

    Wilson lied to Kristof with his lovely spy wife acting as hostess.

    It is not my fault the left believes anything that bashes Bush or Republicans. The WP fiasco should have woken some of you up to how easily Kos can influence you.

  55. 55.

    Paddy O'Shea

    December 2, 2005 at 5:13 pm

    Hey Stormy, I gotta joke for you!

    Q) How do you lose a war to a country with no real government or military?

    A) Put George W. Bush in charge.

  56. 56.

    John S.

    December 2, 2005 at 5:15 pm

    Stormy, have another drink my dear. It may help you paint more accurate generalizations with the coveted 2X4 of Truth©.

    Now if you’ll forgive me, I have to go get brainwashed by a blog that I never read…

  57. 57.

    Pb

    December 2, 2005 at 5:22 pm

    You know, The Dixie Chicks had the right idea–they just didn’t know how right–and yet how wrong–they were. Natalie Maines was “ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas”. Well don’t worrie Natalie, he was born in Connecticut, went to a private school in Massachusetts, helped protect Alabama from liberals during Vietnam, drove drunk in Maine, lost his first election in Texas because he was “not a real Texan”. Only then did he decide that “he wasn’t going to be out-Christianed or out-good-old-boyed again.” Oh, and the ranch? He bought it in 1999. Every real rugged Texan Presidential candidate needs a ranch.

  58. 58.

    scs

    December 2, 2005 at 5:30 pm

    Yeah what Stormy said.

  59. 59.

    searp

    December 2, 2005 at 7:15 pm

    The left/right thing here is funny. The left used to be socialists, people who believed in state ownership of the economy.

    I haven’t seen one reference to that idea in six months of reading this blog.

    I guess now the left is anyone who thinks George Bush is a bad president. Stormy, I’d appreciate your thoughts.

    I think anyone who voted for Bush is dumb, but I wouldn’t put them anywhere in particular on a left/right kind of spectrum.

  60. 60.

    Ancient Purple

    December 2, 2005 at 7:57 pm

    It is not my fault the left believes anything that bashes Bush or Republicans.

    And it’s not my fault that the Bush ass-lickers think that putting a stupid $2.00 magnet on the back of their car and voting Republican makes them patriotic Americans.

  61. 61.

    ppGaz

    December 2, 2005 at 8:51 pm

    And it’s not my fault that the Bush ass-lickers think that putting a stupid $2.00 magnet on the back of their car and voting Republican makes them patriotic Americans.

    ppGazBLOD Award!

    (my Best Line of the Day award).

    Your book of carwash coupons will be in the mail (as soon as you send me your credit card number and expiration date, I can begin the processing …..)

  62. 62.

    TallDave

    December 2, 2005 at 11:10 pm

    Let’s make it clear that if Jack Abramoff decides to flip, the GOP has a huge problem on their hands.

    LOL You might want to check on his connections to Dems, too. Abramoff was an equal-opportunity scumbag.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_go_ot/tribes_letters___donations

    WASHINGTON – New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff’s tribal clients.

    A lawyer for the Louisiana Coushatta Indians told The Associated Press that Abramoff instructed the tribe to send $5,000 to Sen. Byron Dorgan (news, bio, voting record)’s political group just three weeks after the North Dakota Democrat urged fellow senators to fund a tribal school program Abramoff’s clients wanted to use.

    If he “flips” it’ll be a bipartisan bloodbath.

  63. 63.

    John S.

    December 3, 2005 at 12:19 am

    If he “flips” it’ll be a bipartisan bloodbath.

    Here’s to wishful thinking, Davey. I believe someone upthread said it best:

    Yeah…If 50 Republicans and 10 Democrats get pinched, the Abramoff scandal has obviously touched both sides equally.

    I believe they read your mind.

  64. 64.

    Bruce Moomaw

    December 3, 2005 at 1:36 am

    DougJ: “Stormster, what about Tammany Hall, weren’t they Democrats? And while we’re at it, there was a lot of corruption in the 17th century British parliament in the Whig party which some see as having given birth to the modern Democratic party.”

    There sure was, Doug. More recently, there was the Pendergast Machine. All of which just proves that we need to set up a system to make this kind of self-sustaining clusterfuck more difficult no matter WHO’S doing it — which, at the moment, is the Republicans. (Lest we forget, they have always been more likely to do it than the Dems, for the simple reason that they’re the party far more closely associated with the wealthy. Political corruption, like Alvin Karpis, goes where the money is.)

    The question is what we do to reduce it. I would hope that, after this Colossus falls, we’ll hear fewer of George Will’s indignant statements (see the latest “Newsweek”) that political favors in return for campaign contributions can’t possibly lead to political corruption because campaign money is free speech and all that. But setting up a properly designed source of publicly-provided campaign funds is definitely a better way to reduce the problem than the unavoidably Byzantine complexities of McCain-Feingold (although I think we can also agree with Mark Kleiman that it should be a criminal offense for a politician to provably provide a vote on a specific bill in return for a compaign contribution, just as it is for a direct financial gift a la Duke Cunningham).

  65. 65.

    stickler

    December 3, 2005 at 3:38 am

    You want to put a stop to the corruption?

    Punish the bastards who do it. Abramoff should get chucked in Angola for the rest of his miserable life.

    Delay should get the same. And Ney. And all their hapless, corrupt lackeys in Congress. Let the K Street bastards rot in Walla Walla.

    And the party leadership that masterminded it all? They connived in taking us to war on lies, they let Osama hit us and run, and they’ve bankrupted the Treasury. They’ve connived in rigging elections, gerrymandering the whole God-damned state of Texas, and appointing half-crazed loons to the Federal bench. They have endangered the Republic to a degree we haven’t seen since 1860. They have managed to cripple the best-trained and -equipped Army this nation has ever fielded, by sending it on a fool’s mission.

    That’s treason. What’s the maximum penalty under the Espionage Act?

  66. 66.

    DougJ

    December 3, 2005 at 10:45 am

    More recently, there was the Pendergast Machine.

    Corrupt or not, Teddy P is one hell of a soul singer.

  67. 67.

    TallDave

    December 4, 2005 at 8:27 pm

    50 Republicans? And you’re accusing me of wishful thinking? Sheesh, talk about projection.

    It’s going to take down people on both sides, so it will not be an issue Dems can take national as evidence of how the GOP is so much worse than they are. It will probably hurt the GOP more than Dems, but it’s not going to be the rallying point for 2006 lefties here are so desperately reaching for.

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