Now is as good a time as any to announce that the blog is about to get a bit more crowded – we have invited regular Tom in Texas to join the motley crew of Balloon Juice contributors. Tom has an encyclopaedic wine knowledge (I hope that doesn’t embarrass him) and has promised to offer up some wine-and-food blogging on a higher level than the stuff that we’re used to around here, plus whatever other topics strike his fancy. Tom is also our first contributor to hail from outside Steelers country so we might look forward to a bit of late-season friction to liven things up.
Oh yeah, and I should probably tell John. Treat this as an open thread.
srv
I don’t like him already. He sounds like one of those dot-com’ers who moved to Austin and ruined it for the rest of us.
Pb
LOL. Congratulations Tom, and welcome to the inner circle of Tim F.’s blog!
Tom in Texas
Ahh srv. I only let Austin corrupt me for six years. Now its the strong and safely red environs of Houston for me. Too many hippies in Travis County.
Tom in Texas
Although fair warning. The Longhorns left a deep impression on my young mind. I can be a little.. irrationally exuberant when it comes to them.
srv
Another bright conservative who took 6 years getting thru college.
Well, at least he’s not some migrant from Dallas.
Krista
John. Tom. Tim.
So any of you wannabe contributors out there, if you don’t have a monosyllabic first name, you’re S.O.L.
Off Colfax
Or don’t blog under a monosyllabic pseudonym, probably.
Tom in Texas
It’s far easier for some of you to understand us when we keep our words to one syllable.
demimondian
Test BJ wine commentary…
Yup, it works…
The Other Steve
What is this becoming? Some sort of French wine and food guide?
Tom in Texas
Steve — I will make you a promise. I will not review a French wine until I have tasted one from every other continent on earth. They have ice wine in Antarctica, right?
Punchy
Buy too many phones, take some pictures…oh yeah, and have brown skin….get arrested
Please note:
and the last time I checked, snapping photos wasn’t illegal, either…yet:
Wow…Bush really IS pulling out all the stops of the Fear Train 2006…hooo-leee shit.
Cyrus
Steelers, schmeelers. You want real intellectual diversity? Bring in someone who — gasp! — doesn’t follow pro sports. Complete strangers playing games for no stakes but their own massive salaries, interrupted constantly by ads and mindless chatter? Bah. It’s all right if you have the mindset of a Rob Schneider fan, I guess. If I want to watch men in spandex tackling each other, football beats gay porn, but I’d still prefer comic books.
DISCLAIMER: I got about two hours of sleep last night due to jet lag. I chose the wrong weekend to visit a friend out west. The new, ridiculous security measures probably caused less than half my problems — it took three tries before I made it onto a plane.
Tom in Texas
My question about the cell phone terorists is pretty basic. I’ll freely admit that I’m not up to date on the explosive capabilities of cellular technology, but it seems to me that they only needed one cell phone, attached to one very big bomb, to blow up the bridge. What would a terrorist need 1000 cell phones for? Were they just going to give one to every driver over the bridge and waut for catastrophe? Or throw them all at the bridge at once? I’m baffled.
Krista
I have a feeling this blog is going to get a bit more interesting…
And Tom, there’s excellent icewine here in Nova Scotia, FYI.
Tom in Texas
Krista — I’ve tried the Inniskillin, which I am a huge fan of. Other than that I am afraid I’m a little behind on the Canadian ice wines.
Tim F.
I believe the idea is that they will use and dispose of them faster than the authorities can keep up.
Krista
I highly recommend Jost’s 2003 Vidal Icewine. They don’t ship to the U.S., but if you have any Canadian friends who will be visiting you, or who you will be visiting, you might want to ask them to order you a bottle. It’s lovely, lovely stuff — pure ambrosia.
Punchy
Now that’s a funny image. 3 Brown Guys chucking a thousand phones at the bridge, trying to either bring it down or give the fish below a good reason to call their dolphin brethren near St. Barts.
I can just see the Yankee’s pitching scout out there with a radar gun and contracts waiting for one of them to throw a phone slider at 78 mph…
Krista
They keep smashing them in frustration when they lose their signal.
Tom in Texas
I understand they can dispose of the phones after using them and that they are untraceable, but they already traveled into Detroit with all of these phones in their trunk. Was this plan really in the discussion phase? And if so, why not go to FISA and tell them “we found some guys that bought a thousand phones. We need to observe what’s being said over them for the next few weeks or months.”
Halffasthero
Steelers? and I am trying to picture hippies in Travis County. I don’t remember seeing any when I visited there. Of course, I never really remember much of anything about my visits to Austin after going onto 6th Street for some strange reason.
Bender
Let’s see, they’re young Arab males buying untraceable prepaid tracphones that can be used to detonate explosives. They’re travelling around the country, buying in cash and in small enough quantities per purchase that they don’t set off quantity alarms. They rip the packaging open and take out the battery charger. They say they are marking them up $5 and selling them to someone in Dallas. Where they go then, who knows?
Sounds perfectly legitimate to me. Who wouldn’t pay $5 above retail for a ripped-box, no-charger tracphone from some guy in a van?
Punchy must have a bunch of old half-finished connect-the-dots books at home.
Tom in Texas
Well, we would, if we were to monitor this group rather than loudly accusing them of a conspiracy of which we have no (publicly) available evidence.
Tom in Texas
It just strikes me that we are doing this in a backwards manner. If the Miami captives were really planning on buying explosives and uniforms from the FBI, let them buy them. We know who they are and where they live. If these guys were planning on sending cell phones somewhere to be wired as explosives, let them mail them and see where they go. Then we can actually say, with proof, that they are part of a conspiracy.
Rusty Shackleford
Obviously, Tom has been briefed on Darrell.
ThymeZone
There is no future for that kind of sensible idea in either government, or the blogosphere.
Nikki
Isn’t that how the Brits made their latest catch? Monitored them so they could take down as many in the conspiracy as they could rather than make a splashy arrest with just a few underlings?
Punchy
Nah…that’s never been done before. NO ONE has ever bought things in bulk, then resold them individually at a markup. That’s a novel idea, and something these guys simply could NOT have dreamt up.
Wow, you pants-wetters are stunningly idiotic. If you WANTED TO HIDE YOUR PLAN, you wouldn’t buy them by the thousand and have all of them in your possession at once. You also wouldn’t have THREE Middle Eastern men all doing it at the same time. Uh…last time I checked, wanna-be bank robbers don’t buy ski masks, gloves, guns and ammo all from the same store at the same time.
Bender’s waiting for the neighborhood Jordanian to purchase an alarm clock, a Casio watch, and some duct tape and then he’s going ring up the DHS he has on speedial and have him arrested for being in possession of a “timer”, a “detonation device”, and “material to support duct-tape terrorism”. And then maybe he’ll unwet himself.
Tim F.
Sounds like the Padilla Principle – grab them when you have nothing more than hearsay and suppositions, make a quick headline and then quietly let them go when the case gets laughed out of court.
Punchy
Tim, Darrell has an encyclowhatever knowledge of strawman, heresay, misquoting, and dumbassness…can we get him a part-time posting gig, too?
Let’s see where Tom stands:
Tom, what’s a better wine: Boone’s Farm Strawberry, or Mad Dog 20/20 Grape? Tailgaters are hanging on your every word…
Perry Como
I think we need to start a War on Arbitrage.
Tom in Texas
Punchy;
I drank Boone’s Strawberry farm as a penniless freshman, and I drank a bottle during every game of the NLCS last year (except for the game where Pujols robbed Lidge of his innocence). Boone’s has an undeniable emotional attachment for me, and while I do not begrudge anyone their enjoyment of the bright initial aroma of MD 20/20, or its finish reminiscent of Grape Kool-Aid, I have to stand by my Boone’s. Best. Screwtop. Ever.
Ancient Purple
I will catch up here.
1. Welcome, Tom.
2. Cardinals beat Steelers yesterday.
3. Magnotta Ice Wine is an excellent ice wine.
4. So, you can’t buy cell phones in bulk nor take Gatorade on a plane. However, our ports have no extra security and they don’t scan cargo aboard your plane. Enjoy your flight.
demimondian
Arbitrage is simply profiting from the difference in price for a given item in two markets. That’s, you know, buy low sell high?
Perry, what do you have against our freedom to exploit our fellow man?
Davebo
Safely red environs of Houston? Huh?
If you said Harris County I’d agree. But when you break it down to precinct totals…. well, not so much.
Pooh
I’m not sure why a terrorist, specifically, would. As for any sort of criminal conspiracy, it’s really pretty simple – to tap your phone, they have to know what your phone # is (in addition, there are legalities which make it marginally more difficult to tap an ever changing cell #, but per “The Wire”, I’m gonna go ahead and bet that if you have the knowledge of the network sufficient to support the intial wiretap, the hurdle is more technical than legal.)
So basically, how it works is, they purchase “burners” disposable cells, preprogram the only numbers they need, and pass them out. Then a week later, they chuck the old phones, and hand out new, newly programmed ones. Without some way of knowing what new numbers will be used, the network disappears – this is why they purchase at multiple locations – if they bought in bulk from one store, the police/feds could make an educated guess as to what the new numbers would be.
ThymeZone
I think the move is known as an Ashcroft.
Pooh
As an addendum to my earlier post – I’d say that the information we have so far offers a pretty strong supposition of criminal behavior, though I’m not sure what, aside from skin color, implicates specifically terrorism (though I imagine it’s probably pretty hard out there for an Arab pimp these days.)
ThymeZone
Ow. That makes me ….. sad.
srv
Makes one wonder if there’s a secret agreement between disposable phone network operators and the government.
Why listen to everybody if you can just watch those using disposables?
John Cole
Did someone explain to PPGAZ that Tom’s expertise is wine, and not ‘whine,’ so we are not treading on his turf.
Richard Bottoms
Another morale booster from President Shithead.
Must be tough to live with yourself if you are one of the people who voted for this crowd. And, I wonder which one of these troops will now draw the Ace of Spades in Iraq after having dodged that fate the first time around.
Mac Buckets
Zing!
“Gentlemen! This cannot continue! We have important work to do here! I’m going to have to demand that you guys have a best-of-three Zing-slash-Burn Off, with the winner declared Zingmaster.”
ThymeZone
Thank you!
DougJ
Quick: name all the grand crus in Vosne-Romanee, Mr. Wine Expert!
Punchy
Well, not so much…from my first post:
Show me the statute–any statute–that either specifies the maximum number of TOTAL phones one can buy, the max number of phones allowed in one vehicle, the max number of Brown Guys in one vehicle, or the minimum amount of fear the police are required to ratchet up between now and November.
Otherwise, there’s absolutely no criminal behavior.
ThymeZone
Are those cars?
Citroen oil filters, or ?
ThymeZone
It varies with the neighborhood.
On my street it is equal to the number of seats in the car.
But in Scottsdale, it’s two if the vehicle is an old truck towing a trailer with lawn equipment, or one if it’s a car or delivery van. Unless it’s a ballplayer, then it’s whatever he wants. Unless it’s a bike, then it’s zero, because the bike is stolen.
Basic common sense.
Richard Bottoms
>the max number of Brown Guys in one vehicle
From personal experience, one.
demimondian
That’s “grands crus”, not “grand crus”.
Sincerely yours,
Grammar Nazgul
ThymeZone
Tom, is it true that there is a town in Texas for every word in the English language?
Old Dime Box, TX
Refuge, TX
Frog, TX
Gun Barrel City, TX
Uncertain, TX
etc
Pooh
Punchy, I’m not saying that what we know is direct evidence of criminal behavior, and it is certainly not criminal in and of itself – but it is the kind of thing wherein I might want to focus more investigative attention. Is their story – that they were just looking to arbitrage the phones – plausible? Absolutely, but purchasing a mess of disposable phones in small lots is suspicious.
Punchy
Agreed. But one ought not be arrested for suspicious LEGAL behavior. Investigated, sure. Arrested? Nope. Otherwise, what’s next? I.D. Cards demonstrating you’re not an Arab just to buy fertilizer, or wire, or timers, or white women? Where does it end?
Krista
Go check out some of the town names in Newfoundland, and come back to me when you can pick your jaw up off the floor.
Tim F.
I can deal with most of that, but I draw the line at showing ID when I buy white women. Some rights are simply non-negotiable.
Pooh
I don’t think we’re disagreeing at all. I take no position on the arrests because I don’t know anything – there could be more, but I’m not really in a doubt giving mood when the headlines scream about thwarted terror plots. Something along the lines of “and if you believe that, I’ve got a bridge for you to blowtorch”
(Note to NSA, that’s a JOKE. Yay Capitalism!)
srv
You think we give and Arizona Monkey’s Eyebrow? Why do you care?
I think you’re just being Petty about the Veribest and Happy Camelot this side of Tiki Island. I think you Neeedmore respect for Progress, Old Glory you Old Boston Tuxedo-wearing Royalty.
So take your Dime Box and move to Paris, Egypt or Turkey.
Try to Grow your Arizona Lawn without our Sweetwater you Twitty Skidmore Bigfoot.
ThymeZone
Krista, I will check that out.
Meanwhile, I’m wondering, if I am in Uncertain, TX, and I am not sure of something …. like, why Darrell bothers to get out of bed in the morning …..
Am I then in a state of uncertainty in the town of Uncertain?
I’m ….. not sure.
ThymeZone
Oh my low-ard!
Krista
This is just a Newfoundland sampler…
Jerry’s Nose
Nick’s Nose Cove
Come-by-Chance
Blow-me-down
Lushes Bight
Bumble Bee Bight
Ha Ha Bay
Run-by-guess
Bleak Joke Cove
Calves Nose
Nancy Oh
Little Looping Harbour
Snake’s Bight
Joe Batt’s Arm
Dildo
srv
Oh, and take your Canadian Lolita Lazbuddie to Flat New Boston
ThymeZone
I like that Newfoundland sampler. It speaks of people who don’t take life too seriously, a sense of humor.
People you would want to drink beer with.
The Other Steve
I wonder if all these news stories reporting that authorities can’t track prepaid cell phones realize that they are aiding and comforting terrorists?
Maybe we should pass some sort of federal law making this a crime of treason?
We also should look at outlawing payphones, as we all know from the years of treasonous leaks from hollywood, they are the phone of choice used by Kidnappers and other nasty criminals. I wouldn’t be surprised if the terrorists also don’t know how to use a pay phone.
Darrell
You assume the phones are all they’ve got without knowing what other evidence the authorities have. I read in a report that one of the men are here illegally.
If they were arrested solely because they bought a lot of disposable cell phones, sure, that would be crap. But you should trying waiting for a few more facts to come out before claiming that’s all there is to it.
Krista
Newfoundlanders are some of the finest people on the entire planet. It’s the poorest province in the country, but the people there would give you the shirts off their backs. A lot of flights were stuck there during 9-11, and can attest to what remarkable human beings they all are. And ThymeZone, you’re absolutely right — they know how to have a good time.
The Other Steve
Man I’d have thought that was a region of Czech Republic, except it has way too many vowels.
Punchy
Sounds like a great place to open a Chuckle Hut or other corny-named comedy club
I’m not sure where to start with “Dildo”…Should I go with the “They sell a lot of batteries” yuk-yuk or open with “And you thought San Fran smelled like fish” yarn…?
ThymeZone
Observe the photo on CNN’s banner page, the Three Stooges (Well, two stooges and a stoogette) ….
Could these people BE any more completely insane?
I mean, seriously. Even if there were such a thing as a “war on terror,” which there is not, never has been nor never will be, do they really think that they’ve accomplished anything worthwhile in the last month?
Hizbullah is now the leading terrorist organization in the Arab/Muslim world, thanks to this clusterfuck, is it not? With more popular support than it could have earned on its own in twenty years, thanks to the feckless Israelis and their American enablers.
Good God almighty.
Any doubt about what these fuckers are doing here? How long before they start talking about “mushroom clouds” on the Sunday talk shows again?
ThymeZone
{ thud }
Medic!
Pooh
ppG, we’re fighting them over there (and there, and there, and over there but on their way here, eventually, too) so that we…zzzzzzz
The Other Steve
Oh dear. Fox News has just had two journalists kidnapped in the Gaza Strip.
No word yet on whether one of them was Geraldo looking for Al Capone’s lost treasure.
Darrell
Let’s see, Hezbullah terrorism is Bush’s fault.. and Bush is itching to drag us into a nuclear war
You know, as bad as things look for the Repubs in November, just wait until voters get an up-close look at the alternative.
ThymeZone
There he is, on the job.
Sleep well tonight.
The Other Steve
You gotta admit, the whole thing does sound pathetically funny.
It’s like we’re stuck in this weird version of The Russians are Coming.
ThymeZone
What is wrong with you? Can you even follow a train of thought?
The Other Steve
You think being Pro-World War III is a credible platform to be running on to gain electoral support?
srv
And take your Novice, Mutual, Darouzett Hoop and Holler Groom to your Looneyville where the Sunray don’t Shiner. By Sundown.
It’s a long way across Texas when you’re in the back seat…
ThymeZone
Part Four, starring Owen Wilson.
The Other Steve
Can we confirm that one of the Fox News journalists kidnapped was not Bill O’Reilly out looking for some Falafel?
Darrell
No word yet as to whether Markos Moulitsas at DKos has declared “screw them”
ThymeZone
Fox news reporters actually went outside?
US Patriot
I agree. As much as I disagree with some of the Bush Administration’s decisions, I think the left is overreacting as usual on this one.
Maybe Bush is violating some Constitutional principles here, but probably not. Only time will tell, although I realize this is an election year and partisanship waits for nothing.
I agree with Darrell here.
srv
No word on how much Fox will use this to milk ratings either.
ThymeZone
As Jon Steward said, for Republicans, “End of the world” is not just a slogan, it’s a campaign promise.
US Patriot
It’s called “journalism.” Back when Walter Cronkite was its king, I don’t recall too many liberals whining about it.
ThymeZone
When you walk into a room, all profundity in the world gets sucked away into a back hole somewhere.
US Patriot
Do you mean John Stewart?
I have to say, he’s often pretty funny. In an irreverent, iconoclastic way.
ThymeZone
Uh huh. You hadn’t been born yet, dipshit.
US Patriot
How is one expected to reply to this sort of gobbledygook?
Perry Como
At least the Republicans have a plan to start WWIII. Where’s the Democrat plan to start the next world war?
ThymeZone
No, Jon Steward, my chauffeur.
ThymeZone
Oh, you’ll think of
somethingnothinga way.Perry Como
Quick poll. Are you:
1) Pro-WWIII
2) Pro-terrorist
?
Darrell
Well that is some bad news, isn’t it?
See if you can pick ppgaz out of the photos from this lovely little ‘peace’ protest in SF over the weekend
srv
Which makes me wonder why Bush lovers are so anti-Iran nukes. I mean, how else are they going to depopulate liberal urban cities?
chopper
his train of thought is still boarding at the station.
ThymeZone
I’m Rapture Ready , baby.
ThymeZone
Darrell’s Home Page
Darrell’s Political Action Committee
Ancient Purple
Is it gobbledygook? I don’t know.
Maybe in 20 years, history will decide if it is gobbledygook.
Until then, I will remain
ambivalentneutral.Judy
Okay can we talk about George Allen now or is he off limits. Any one see the video, I was struck by the laughter in the background. Edwards was right we are better than this.
ThymeZone
George Allen’s Race Problem
It’s pay for view but you can Google and read the cached version for free. It’s …. sobering.
Darrell
Great article! asserting George allen is a racist because he wears cowboy boots. Count how many times the writer brings up the cowboy boots as ‘evidence’ of Allen’s racism. You Dems are fucking pathetic.. but smearing your opponent as a racist is a tried and true Dem playbook move.
Perry Como
But is George Allen the al Qaeda candidate? Strong. Smart.
ThymeZone
Sure, but consider the alternative:
Darrell
First, Bush isn’t running for re-election. Second, I think it was entirely reasonable of him to ask specifically what ‘giant’ loopholes the reporter was referring to. Fucking reporter making vague accusations without offering any specifics.
chriskoz
Darrell says:
And Darrell knows a few things about racism. After all… the article is nothing but “Arab lies”… right Darrell.
ThymeZone
Amazing. I hand you a shovel, and you dig furiously.
Excuse me, I need to run down to Ace Hardware …..
Darrell
Did you hear that Jews jewed the arabs out of Palestine? One of the leftists at this protest told me so
Perry Como
The article was probably written by one of those “stupid and naive” Jews.
ThymeZone
They didn’t put the loophole question on my shirtsleeve. Can you please axe another question?
Judy
Darrell, I think that if you watched the video of Allen you would be disappointed. It should not be a Repub or Dem thing. We are all in this country together, right?
ThymeZone
Condi didn’t bring up the loopholes during the briefing. What’s important to remember is they hate us for our freedoms.
chriskoz
And that in some way excuses your racism?
I don’t see your point. (unless your point is… “look… over there… a Jackalope”)
Darrell
Judy, you haven’t linked to any video, so what are you talking about? I responded to an article Thyme linked to accusing Allen of racism because he wears cowboy boots. You got something more? show it please.. rather than your phony “we are the world” posturing.
ThymeZone
No fair asking a question I didn’t already know nothing … er already didn’t know, or know about.
Some terrorists may fall through the loopholes but that’s why need the Patriot Act to catch them, because the Patriot Act doesn’t permit loopholes.
Darrell
Are you calling me a racist shitstain? On what basis are doing that? Please substantiate that accusation so that we can see context and specific language.. and also see what a lying sack of shit you truly are
ThymeZone
I really am not all that concerned with loopholes now. Some want us not to have the tools we need to bring the loopholes to justice. Those folks need to be reminded that these people want to destroy us.
ThymeZone
The government is your protection against the holes, or the loopholes as you call them. As long as I’m president, we will defend this country against loopholes.
Pooh
Unless you are a gay scoutmaster…
ThymeZone
Look, every terrorist can see a loophole, but that’s why we have to be reminded that these fascists want to destroy Americans and our freedoms. Is there a loophole? Sure. Is the loopholes being tightened up and can we travel through these loopholes? See …. this is why we need to stop politicizing the loopholes and work together as a country to fight the terrorists.
ThymeZone
“Thank you, Mister President.”
“No, thank you.”
Judy
Darrell, Wonkette and several other sites have Allen’s video.
Judy
Darrell, I should have added the Washington Post to that because they also link to it.
Perry Como
It’s all “Arab lies.”
Darrell
Then why the hell didn’t you provide a link, rather than criticizing me for not watching a video I didn’t even know existed? Do you assume I have clairvoyant powers Judy?
chriskoz
Well Darrell… All I would have to do is point people to your Aug 1st, 10:47pm post in the “The New Patriotism” thread, where in you proceed to smear an entire race with comments like “Arab lies”. And when called on it… you sputter out some sort of “Jane Hamshers of the left” defense that is quite laughable. The thread didn’t occur that long ago… have you honestly forgotten about it?
And really… the fact that you are already resorting to the “shitstain” moniker speaks volumes about your thinking abilities. (or lack thereof)
chriskoz
P.S.- I am indeed calling you a racist Darrell.
Pooh
Did Darrell just call someone out for not providing a link? Much like my former governor, Darrell ain’t got time to
bleedlink…Darrell
Judy, I watched the video on Wonkette, and I was horrified at the use of the racist epithet * gasp * “Ma Caca” toward the campaign aid of his political opponent who was following him with a video camera. I think all Americans should cross party lines in bipartisan condemnation of Allen as you suggest.. as such an obviously offensive term as Ma Caca should never be uttered in public.
Darrell
You’re lying your ass off. That’s why you dare not link and post in full context.
Pooh
I’m not comfortable calling Darrell a racist yet. An all purpose, genuinely homophobic bigot? I think he takes that much as a compliment…
As for Darrell’s defense of the Jewish people (uhm, speaking for those of us I can, thanks, but no thanks…), it’s always heartwarming to see a prejudice defeated by an even deeper prejudice
chriskoz
Darrell says:
Actually…. I didn’t link because the comment preview was mangled when I inserted the link. so, I didn’t trust it would come out correctly. I did however provide enough info to go look it up yourself. (and if you were an honest individual you would have looked up what I referenced before you decided to call me a liar)
I certainly didn’t think you would be as lame as to try and use that as a cop out. But I guess I underestimated your stupidity. So… mangled preview be damned… here is your link
You got what you asked for… now, how are you going to dodge it this time?
Judy
Darrell, don’t get so testy, I didn’t link because I’m pretty old and don’t know how, but I’m getting pretty good on this copy and paste stuff. Wouldn’t it have been better if your man had decided not to use racist terms, or to humilate a VA born man while he was born in Hollywood country. You don’t know me and I don’t know you but the reason I have always been independent is because my government is pretty important to me and I’m not afraid to read the issues and watch voting records. Of course for you Darrell, I’ll try to link next time.
Slide
The Decider explaining how Hezbolla “lost” the war:
aren’t we all so proud?
Darrell
Nothing lame about it shitstain. In the context of a discussion in which “John S” was using Jenin as an example of Israeli “war crimes”, I pointed out to him in response that Jenin was in fact a fraud perpetrated by arab lies to disgrace Israel. Nothing racist or dishonest in the least with my characterization of it as such. That was exactly what it was. That is the basis for your accusation of me being a racist? you’re really standing on ‘solid’ ground with that accusations shitstain, let me tell you.
Darrell
Judy, I realize it’s trendy to repeat those sort of accusations with all the kool kidz, but is Ma Caca really a racist epithet? Get a grip
Judy
Actually, I live in GA and Macaca is not used that often, but maybe it is among your friends.
Darrell
That would be because it’s not a racist epithet.. it’s not even a word, I think. But don’t let those inconvenient details stop you from accusing Allen of racism. Party over country, right?
US Patriot
Isn’t it crazy that we can now link to things and discuss them with some presumed basis of shared knowledge? Imagine what it must have been like for the Ancients, trying to have arguments 20 or 30 years ago. The lack of common text upon which to base their arguments must have been infuriating beyond contemporary comprehension.
Krista
And yes, Judy, he is always that rude. When he derided your attempt to find common ground as “phony ‘we are the world’ posturing”, that should have been your first indicator.
Darrell
It was phony.. phony as hell. First smearing Allen of using racist terms that aren’t even racist, then pretending that the ‘racism’ was sooo obvious and horrible, that we should all stop and agree to have a bipartisan condemnation over it. Nope, she wasn’t looking for common ground, no matter how much you pretend otherwise
Perry Como
I would point you to the link that proves you wrong, but instead I’ll just call you an idiot. Idiot.
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Well, Allen must think it’s a word, he used it. In a kind of unusual way…
I think it’s a word that refers to a genus of monkeys common to India and SE Asia.
Krista
Regardless, for someone who has indicated that he is looking for honest debate, you certainly are very quick to bring the attack down to the personal level, I must say.
If you want civility, then be civil.
Ancient Purple
You are wrong, as usual, Darrell.
And you are even more wrong here.
Sweet Jesus, you bigots will defend your own until the very end.
Ancient Purple
Perry, PLEASE!
That is such an insult to idiots.
Darrell
I guess after I responded to chriskoz’s BS accusations of racism, he ran like the cockroach he is. Why is it that the left is so much more prone to accuse ideological opponents of ‘racism’ and ‘bigotry’? Not just on this thread, they do it ALL THE TIME. Running ads of a black men dragged to death in a racist murder and trying to link it to Bush.. every two years you can listen to the black radio stations during campaign season warning of how Republicans want to “turn back the clock” on civil rights.. Kanye West, etc, etc. So many on the left really are vermin. They have no honor. Doubt me? Then explain why the left so often accuse others they disagree with baseless accusations of racism and hate… The left, by and large, is truly willing to divide and tear apart the country to achieve their political gain.
VidaLoca
Judy,
Around here it’s really easy. Immediately above the box in which you type your comments you’ll see a box with a double arrow on it. Click the box, it will expand a menu across the screen. From that menu click “Link”, you’ll get a box into which you can cut and paste your link. When done click “accept” in that box, it will embed the link in your comment.
ThymeZone
See, Darrell thinks that if he has not heard the word, it’s not a word.
Darrell
Please, show of hands who has ever heard the term ‘Ma Cacca’ before? How many knew it was a racial epithet? Well then aholes, you certainly have a ‘valid’ accusation/smear then.
US Patriot
And there you have it. John S. claims that Jenin was an Israeli atrocity, and Darrell retorts that Jenin was a fraud perpetrated by the Arabs themselves to besmirch the Israelis’ good name. Left and Right continue the epic battle of calling one another racists and liars, and various other things. Like “shitstain.” (Actually, Darrell, as colorful as this description may be, it is manifestly inaccurate. Defecation contains no life beyond microbes, is not capable of cognition, and is not capable of the locomotion necessary for complicated activities such as logging on to the Internet or typing rebuttals. Ergo, while you may have the best of intentions in utilizing it, you clearly allow your passions to outweigh your rational faculties.)
Where does the truth lie in regards to the Jenin affair? Well, we may not know for a while, but it probably lies somewhere in the middle. Both sides are usually overwrought and inaccurate, but if you parse between their two extremes, more often than not you find that reality lies at the fulcrum.
In this case, it is perfectly possible that the Arabs staged the Jenin massacres. But it also seems equally likely that they used bodies obtained from previous Israeli attacks. That is my assessment of the situation based upon these leftist and rightist tirades, of course. There may be additional evidence awaiting discussion, evidence which tends to cast doubt on one side or the other (or indeed, whether a massacre even occurred at all, staged or otherwise), but in the absence of additional evidence, it seems reasonable to put this idea forward as a starting point for discussion.
So, Darrell and John S.: please tell me why it is unreasonable to propose the possibility that the Israelis did not massacre Arabs at Jenin, but that these bodies did, in fact, come from a previous Israeli massacre somewhere else, perhaps a cluster of smaller massacres manufactured into a large one for media convenience. Would such an accumulated atrocity be lessened or ameliorated by the deception which underlay its manufacture?
I will evaluate your responses, and use them to attempt to reach a new consensus opinion on the subject. For now, can we at least agree that:
1. Jenin exists.
2. Israel attacked it.
3. People died during this attack.
4. Some of these people were Arabs.?
If we can agree on all this, we can easily eliminate 95% of the potential disharmony we face on this controversial matter. I remain optimistic that an accord can be achieved with hard work, dedication, and mutual respect.
ThymeZone
Can you believe this fucking guy?
Perry Como
I was going to call Darrell a fucktard, but I got a call last week from the Fucktard Association of America and they were offended at being compared to Darrell.
Darrell
yeah, I can see how quick you are to denounce all the bullshit accusations of racism coming from your side. Oh that’s right, you focus all your criticism on minor comments coming from me.. How honest and fair of you.
The Other Steve
What would the word be other than a ethnic slur?
Or are you saying that it really means ‘buddy’ in Allenspeak, and we just weren’t in on the kool kidz secret language?
Darrell
No we can’t you fucking moron.. not as long as jackasses like John S are calling it an Israeli ‘war crime’, and while arab propagandists lie their asses off that “hundreds” in Jenin were massacred by Israel when in FACT it was a fraction of that number. Not even the UN disputes that.
The Other Steve
Please a show of hands for all those who when they heard the word thought it was a polite address?
Interesting argument you made there Darrell, but common sense prevails over wingnuttery.
Perry Como
So you think that just because sites like Stormfront use the epithet “macaque” along side other epithets like “nigger” it means “macaque” is racist? And when a person uses “macaque” to describe a brown skinned person at a campaign stump that means he’s using it as a racist epithet? Do you see how unhinged you are? Do you get it yet?
The Other Steve
Or the rabid Darrell’s of the right defend Macaca as a polite form of address between friends.
US Patriot
Well, not with that attitude, certainly. But can you at least concede the four points I wrote up, Darrell? They would easily overcome 95% of the disagreement, I believe.
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Hey, I’m with you. It’s a revelation to me too.
Well, either Allen was making it up as random gibberish or he meant something by it — maybe you can see another way of looking at it but I can’t. Point is, you can denounce him, say you were wrong and unaware of the meaning of the word, and we can flame on on a different topic. What’s so hard about that?
Darrell
I never suggested it was ‘polite’ form of address, as Allen was clearly perterburbed by a member of his opponents campaign following him around with a video camera. But it wasn’t a racist insult either, no matter how much you dishonest jackasses pretend otherwise.
VidaLoca
Darrell, come on. You really did kind of step right in it this time.
Ancient Purple
Bigots will always defend each other until the bitter, bitter end.
Darrell
Note how liberal jackasses like chriskoz literally stalk people with false accusations of racism. Just look at this thread. It’s a hallmark trait of the left. Now Allen is being smeared with false accusations of racism. I agree that it’s a non-issue which should be dropped. Too bad the left can’t seem to ever let go
Perry Como
Only a moonbat would think Allen was being a racist. Do you see how unhinged you are? How dishonest? Do you get it yet?
Darrell
Exhibit A
Perry Como
I agree with Darrell. We should drop the Allen discussion and talk about Ned Lamont being the al Qaeda candidate. Strong. Smart. Honest.
Darrell
Exhibit B
Darrell
How so? Please be specific
srv
You missed it, he disagreed and stated that it was a massacre, albiet a fractional one:
Krista
Hadn’t heard of it. Didn’t know it was a racial epithet. But didn’t insist that it wasn’t one, just because I hadn’t heard of it.
And I’m not the net nanny, Darrell. I only commented on your rudeness because I seemed to recall you claiming earlier that you were only looking for debate, but were treated rudely by the lefties. And yes, you are treated rudely by many of the lefties here. I’ll admit that freely. Do I think they’re wrong to do so? Well…sometimes. But I can’t really sympathize with you, because you certainly don’t inspire kindess or neutrality, due to the sneering sarcasm you employ as a weapon. You make it very difficult for anybody to want to stick up for you, be it fair or not.
The Other Steve
So why Macaca? Why not asshole, jerk, fucktard?
Why call the guy monkey boy… except using a word which is only associated with Indian subcontinent?
Everybody who thinks Darrell’s explanation sounds intelligent and isn’t a desperate attempt to spin yell “Yeah Jesus!”
Why do I hear crickets chirping?
US Patriot
And there you have it again. Leftists claim Darrell is a racist, Darrell staunchly denies it. The record speaks against him, yet not conclusively. Obviously, people are overreacting, but how much? Can we or can we not come to some kind of consensus on this difficult issue?
Personally, I’ll give Darrell the benefit of the doubt to a far greater extent than leftist partisans with an axe to grind against him are likely to. Darrell, what are your thoughts on why these accusations occur?
Perry Como
I think VidaLoca meant you stepped in the macaque, or ground dwelling monkey, as it is known in some circles.
VidaLoca
Darrell,
US Patriot
:
You’re right, I did miss that one. It appears that Darrell has already met John S. more or less halfway. I consider this a victory for compromise and common sense.
I have to say, Darrell is being far more rational and reasonable than most of his accusers here.
Perry Como
It’s also used to refer to North Africans. Why is the left so dishonest?
The Other Steve
Ahh. Interesting Tunisian French link…
George Felix Allen sounds more French than John Kerry.
Darrell
It was a mistatement in the context of pointing out the wild exaggerations made by lying arab propagandists. I don’t consider Jenin a “massacre” at all. It was Israeli troops fighting terrorists door-to-door, knowing they would lose soldiers rather than turn Jenin into glass, which was fully within their power. I believe something like 23 Israeli soldiers died and 55 arabs. From what I’ve read, almost all of the arab dead were male of fighting age. No doubt most were terrorists dying while trying to kill israelis.
Perry Como
I could point out the offensiveness of that statement if someone did:
s/arab/jew/
But Darrell wouldn’t get it.
Darrell
But is really was lying arab propagandists that set up the Jenin fraud to disgrace Israel.
US Patriot
Well, it sounds like Darrell has already conceded points 1-4. Where’s John S.? I want to hear his take on all this.
Darrell
Curiously, GOP4me has disappeared right when the USP spoof appeared.
Perry Como
Like I said, you wouldn’t get it.
ThymeZone
Good kills, then. No worries about the game warden writing you up.
US Patriot
So, would it be an acceptable compromise if we agreed that not all of these propogandists were Arabs? I’m sure some of them were leftists, and some of them might even have been Iranian conservatives. Iranians, as you all undoubtedly know, are not Arabs.
I just think if we could reach a middle point instead of fighting all the time, a lot more could be accomplished around here. Maybe Darrell’s right. Maybe they ARE exclusively Arab propogandists. Maybe Darrell’s wrong, and none of the propogandists were Arabs. But if we can’t wait for all the facts to come in, and we’re unwilling to compromise on the matter, can we at least agree to disagree in the meanwhile? I think things would go a lot more swimmingly around this place!
US Patriot
Curiously, so did Mac Buckets. Is there a connection? I leave it to you, and scs, to hash out the paranoid conspiracy theories.
And where did Brian go? Curiously, he stopped posting here around the same time the folks at Scrutator outed themselves. Was Brian really DougJ? I’m assigning you the case, Detective Darrell!
Krista
1. It would make for a much less lively comments section.
2. Aren’t we still “waiting for all the facts” in regards to the Bush administration’s response to Katrina? Shall we keep waiting before formulating an opinion, then?
3. We DO agree to disagree. As you can see, many of us here have a long-term agreement to disagree with each other at every opportunity.
Darrell
You seem to know an awful about this blog for someone who just started posting here. Fucking spoof.
Krista
Hey, that’s right! Brian never came back from his two-week ban. I believe I shall shed a little tear for the man who called rape victims “theoretical”.
US Patriot
I disagree with hunting laws. We have far too many deer in this country. With a distinct shortage of wolves and bears to take care of the problem, it’s up to America’s hunters to protect American motorists from nighttime collissions with these gigantic woodland vermin.
Sure, some hunting laws for human safety are probably necessary. But do we really need to worry about the deer population at this point? Sure, we could keep checking up on them, and maybe in 4 or 5 years depopulation would be a problem. Then we could reintroduce strict hunting bans, if that seemed necessary to the voters and the forestry officials they elect (directly or otherwise). But for now, I think it should be open season on deer, every season.
Would anyone care to differ with this assertion? If so, please state your rationale.
US Patriot
Less lively, but more rewarding intellectually.
Yes, if necessary.
But you do it so rudely! Is that really necessary?
Krista
Darrell – there ARE quite a few lurkers on this blog. I lurked for a good few weeks before saying anything, and I’m sure I’m not unique in that aspect. He might be a spoof, but maybe we should wait for all the facts to come in. :)
ThymeZone
Yeah, but we have the real deal:
“It cannot be proven that the civilians were innocent.”
–Darrell
US Patriot
If lurking were as criminal as loitering, I would’ve started posting a lot sooner.
You seem to know very little about this blog for someone who’s been posting here for so long. Is “Darrell” one person, or a collaborative effort by a number of writers?
US Patriot
Exactly.
It may be inappropriate for me to point this out, but Darrell is awfully extremist and hostile and rude. I think it hinders discussion around here.
Krista
You must be an awfully frustrating date. “Did you enjoy dinner?” “Well, some may have enjoyed that dish, but others may not have. I’m going to wait until it’s thoroughly digested and evacuated before deciding.”
Necessary? Probably not. Frustrating? At times. Diverting? Always.
Perry Como
I don’t think there is a consensus on US Patriot being a spoof. Back in the 70s people were saying that US Patriot was not a spoof. Now they are saying he is spoof. There’s even a petition by some well known blog commentors that say there’s no such thing as spoofing.
Krista
Au contraire. It actually tends to create quite a bit of discussion. As to whether that discussion is productive is another matter…
DougJ
I found Marc Gellman’s piece in Newsweek on “Joe and the Jews” more offensive than Allen’s racial slurs. Check it out.
ThymeZone
Please Google the term “whoosh.”
chriskoz
Really Darrell…. that’s the best defense you can produce? Repeat your childish insult and then link to a Wikipedia entry? Please show me where it says “Arab lies” in your link? No Darrell… that racist interpretation is entirely yours. (Note: I’m not claiming that “no one” lied. Please see the discussion in the previously linked thread for examples of how you could have accurately portrayed who was actually lying without being racist about it.)
So… yes… that is a big part of my reasons for calling you a racist… you choose to smear an entire race as liars. And then you foolishly try to defend the comment as if it was “accurate”. What would you call someone who intentionally chooses to smear an entire race?
Think of it this way… if your statement had included the phrase “Jew lies” or “Negro lies” do you think you would be able to sit there and honestly pretend you are not a racist?
(Wait… didn’t you also make a some broad claim of most Jews being “stupid and naive” too? I’ll see if I can find the post to help refresh your memory.)
Also… simply because I choose to spend some time with my family for a bit instead of monitor this board for your latest stupid comment hardly qualifies as “running like a cockroach”. See Darrell, as much fun as it is to make you look like a fool, there actually are more important things in my life.
Vlad
I will admit that the “it’s OK to call brown people monkeys if they aren’t actually from Africa” defense is pretty amusing, though still despicable.
Vlad
Still not quite as funny as Allen’s claim that he was talking about the kid’s haircut, though.
demimondian
Our very own libertopian, USPharmaceutica, says:
You are not a very good Liebertarian if you believe that. There are other, far better, ways to reduce the deer population.
We could, for instance, spray the border areas of forests with deer-specific poisons. We could create giant, deer-killing robots, which would stalk the overgrown Bambini with mercifully quick tranq darts. We could simply burn down the unAmerican forests which are giving cover to the deer; this would have the advantage of protecting American hunters from each other.
Darrell
I didn’t “smear an entire race” as liars you lying sack of shit. Jenin was a fraud resulting from arab lies to disgrace Israel. No where did I post that ALL arabs are liars (or perhaps you can show us?), hence your designation as truly a lying shitstain. Now that you’ve been called out on your lie, you’re scrambling like a cockroach
Darrell
Anything is possible. But he knows too many details dating back months. Furthermore, if this isn’t B-grade GOP4Me spoof material, I don’t know what is:
Closing argument, the alias “US Patriot”. It’s so cartoonish, and fits too perfectly with the simpleton leftist caricatured view of conservatives.. wouldn’t you agree? Definitely a spoof, and not a very bright one.
Darrell
Please do. You’ve been busted once on this thread for lying. Go for broke. I want everyone to see for themselves what you consider a ‘broad claim’ from me saying that “most” Jews are stupid and naive. Show us that one shitstain so they can see for themselves what you are.
John S.
Wow, it looks like I worked my into Darrell’s fragile psyche.
I know you hate Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, but do we really need to re-hash this again?
John S.
Jenin is actually quite simple, unless you’re looking to push an agenda. The bottom line is:
-52 Palestinians were killed (30 Palestinian militants, 22 Palestinian civilians) and 23 Israeli soldiers were killed
– In the immediate aftermath, the Palestinians (specifically) alleged that there was a massacre of civilians much greater and gave inflated body counts to make Israel look bad in the press
– Following the immediate aftermath it was determined by two separate organizations in independent reports that while the Palestinian claims were false, Israel was guilty of violating the Geneva Conventions
– The reports also cited that Palestinian gunmen did endanger Palestinian civilians in the camp by using it as a base, however this did not detract from the IDF’s obligations under international humanitarian law
– Attempts by the UN to investigate the matter were effectively blocked by Israel, and On May 7, 2002 the UN General Assembly condemned both the “assaults against Palestinians by Israeli occupying forces, particularly in the Jenin refugee camp” and the refusal to cooperate with fact-finding team
And that’s pretty much the story. Therefore, while it may be unreasonable to say that there was a “massacre” at Jenin, it is equally fraudulent to claim that Israel was the only real “victim” of the situation.
Ancient Purple
Well, well.
Sen. George Felix Allen has now issued an apology for his calling an American citizen of South Asian descent a “Macaca.”
The money quote:
What a baldfaced lie.
Bigots always lie when they get caught.
Isn’t that right, Darrell?
Darrell
Your initial description of what happened at Jenin was an Israeli “war crime”. Clearly you are backpeddling from that earlier characterization of yours
Let’s examine what constitutes an Israeli “block”
How irrational of those Israelis to demand such reasonable conditions. They BLOCKED the UN investigation!
Darrell
And dishonorable liberal vermin routinely accuse political opponents of racism without basis. Isn’t that right AP? How ancient are you anyway?
chriskoz
Ok Darrell… now you’re just being silly. How am I scrambling like a cockroach? I have repeatedly replied to your posts with rather directed responses. (True… I did take time with my family, so some responses were slow. But really? Are you that dense?) Hell, I even mentioned that you tried to use this laughable “Jane Hamshers of the left” defense when we first covered your racist comments.
So it would seem that I am doing anything BUT scrambling like a cockroach.
Meanwhile… you have presented no better argument in your favor than you did last time and almost immediately resorted a childish “shitstain” taunt. (An apparent favorite)
You have had plenty of chances to amend your statement to accurately identify those who were lying. Yet, the best you can come up with is “Arab lies”?
It’s simple… just because some Arabs lied, does not mean the lies are “Arab lies”. Any more than… because some Jews have lied at some point, it’s “ok” to label them “Jew lies”.
Darrell, you choose to use the “race” label for a reason. We know it’s NOT for the sake of accuracy. Since “Arab” does in fact refer to an entire race. And there are certainly more accurate choices. (See previous thread) So why is it “Arab” lies?
Now, an adult would think on why he/she MUST use the “race” to identify the lies. And then would either present a lucid argument or apologize for their racist comment.
A child would post about how I’m a lying shitstain who scrambles like a cockroach from the light of your thier wisdom.
Trust me… the child ends up looking like a fool.
Darrell
The kid has a mullet haircut. No wonder he feels at home with the Dem party
Darrell
You got caught lying about what I said, dishonestly characterizing me as a ‘racist’. Then you lie again saying that I said “most” jews are stupid and naive. When challenged to produce the quote, you run like a fucking cockroach, and declare such requests “silly”. Show us my quote, in context, so you can be exposed for a liar again.
Darrell
It is entirely accurate to point out that the Jenin fraud was entirely the result of arab lies. That is very different than the quotes you dishonestly attribute to me, claiming that I said “all” arabs are liars. Do you see what a dishonest scumbag you are? Has it dawned on you yet?
demimondian
I hate to agree with John S., but…that really is what seems to have happened at Jenin.
chriskoz
So… you are going with “child”?
ImJohnGalt
Darrell’s pregnant? With child?
Darrell
Pardon me, but it is entirely accurate to identify those who were lying as arabs. Palestinian arabs to be specific. They lied their asses off to disgrace Israel. That arab lies about Jenin constitute lies and fraud really isn’t in dispute, so I don’t understand why you feel obligated to play the race card. You’re obsessed really, following me from thread to the thread with dishonest accusations of racism.. How ‘adult’ of you.
Darrell
Yeah? Then explain for us how Israel going door to door to root out terrorists when they could have glassed the city.. 23 of Israel’s finest killed vs. 50 something Palestinians. Explain demi, how that constitutes an Israeli “war crime” as John S initially claimed (he has now completely modified his initial characterization)
ImJohnGalt
Oho, so now Darrell is backpeddling (sic). Originally, he said “arab lies”, now he’s saying “Palestinian arabs”. Skedaddle like a centipede under a flashlight, shitstain. Look at the right in all its glory. That’s who they are. Bunch of fucking race-baiters. I can’t wait until November – when America sees the wacky right for who they are, I like the Democrats’ chances.
Man, it’s hard to even mimic that kind of vitriol. You have a dark soul indeed, Darrell.
Darrell
Projection is the hallmark of the left
Ancient Purple
Let’s put Sen. Allen’s “explanation” to the test.
Here is a photo of Mr. T who sported a Mohawk haircut through his “Rocky” film and A-Team TV careers.
Now, here is a photo of Billy Ray Cyrus, best known for his hit “Achy Breaky Heart” sporting a Mullet hairstyle.
My goodness. They are identical.
Except they are not.
Only an idiot could claim those haircuts are similar.
Darrell
Obsessed and unhinged. Typical leftist
Ancient Purple
Uh, Darrell? I didn’t say you were a racist. Yet.
I said you were a bigot. They are not the same thing.
ImJohnGalt
Damn, I knew I forgot a few of your macros. Got any others for my text editor? Perhaps we could just get John to add them to the buttons at the top of editbox, so you could alienate and insult people with a more ruthless efficiency.
Seriously, Darrell – eat a bag of dicks.
Darrell
chriskoz runs like a cockroach when challenged to produce my alleged quote that “most jews are stupid”. You leftist aholes are too predictable.
Darrell
Talk about dark souls…
Ancient Purple
He can’t just yet. Jeff Gannon has another “job” first.
ImJohnGalt
Ah yes, moral equivalence is another piece of your stock-in-trade, Darrell.
My insult to you to “eat a bag of dicks” darkens my soul. I think, however, that it a slightly lighter tint than that accumulated in yours for the way that you slur the left, naive Jews, lying arabs, and gay scoutmasters. I’m sure that St. Peter will marvel at your remarkable inability to respond to people who attempt to engage you in real discussion with anything other than profanity and ignorance. Yea, the Lord himself will sing hosannahs to you for the credence with which you swallow without chewing anything you see on Fox News or the White House briefing office.
I’ll happily submit our souls to the scales of the Maker. I daresay it won’t be mine that will be found wanting.
Ancient Purple
The Washington Post decided to write an editorial about Allen’s slur.
George Allen can’t be happy. Then again, he made a racial slur against an American citizen of color, so perhaps he is gleefully happy at his own words.
Sen. George Felix Allen: Official Douchebag of the United States Senate.
ImJohnGalt
Oh, and by the way, congratulations, Tom in Texas. Good luck.
chriskoz
You are asking to know on what basis I’m calling you a racist. I’m trying to explain it to you. And you clearly can’t see that. So… I guess that makes me obsessed?
And since I only commented to show your hipocrisy after you got on your soapbox about racism. I’m not sure how that means I’m playing the race card.
Having gone back even futher, I have been able to find the “stupid and naive” comment. (sorry it took so long. But, it gave you a good reason to use some of the “childish” taunts again) And yes, it does appear I was mistaken on that comment. You did not say “Most” Jews are “stupid and naive”. And I retract the comment I made to that effect and apologize.
What you actually said was “A number of Jews are in fact stupid and naive to the extreme” (here’s your link) which I guess would mean you respect the Jews enough not to smear them all. So it seems even odder that you don’t appear to be able to see the Arabs that way? But, I guess “Palestinian arabs” is progress.
chriskoz
opps… hypocrisy. not hipocrisy.
US Patriot
This has become boring and tiresome. I’m done with Darrell.
I’ve decided that he’s some sort of Divine Retribution forced upon the partisan leftists of this blog for your extremism. You’ve earned the man, so you deal with him. Right now I feel like I’m playing the Innocent Bystander character in a Mexican standoff situation. Lurking is far easier.
BTW, Darrell, you’re very paranoid about this GOP4Me person. Is he the same person as DougJ and ThymeZone? Could he also be scs? Inquiring minds want to know.
Anyway, back to lurking. It’s the only honorable profession around here.
US Patriot
Oh, one last thing. Demimondian:
I never said I was a Libertarian. Don’t tar me with that brush. Libertarians are anti-statist loons, the counterbalancing force to Fascists in our society. Both sides being equally ridiculous, silly, and wrong, I would never join either.
Honestly, I’m not even sure if it’s worth LURKING around you people. Teaching a pet rock to fetch the stick is more productive than talking to most of you.
Have a nice life (except Darrell- may the collaborative team of non-consulting extremists writing your part have nice separate lives).
John S.
Darrell, you lying sack of shit.
I said the EXACT same thing the first time, so there is no backpeddling whatsoever. The problem is, you didn’t get it the last time either:
But keep screaming that I just glibly described the situation as a “war crime” and have somehow changed my original position. I urge anyone to follow the link and read the exchange to see just how full of shit Darrell really is to walk away from that having mischaracterized my position entirely.
The Other Steve
Darrell wrote:
LOL! :-)
Ok, fess up. You’re a spoof aren’t you?
The Other Steve
George Felix Allen doesn’t know what a mullet is?
How can he claim to be a son of the south?
chopper
‘macaque’ is french slang for ‘monkey’ in the manner of a racial slur. allen knows french, BTW, and his mom is from tunisia where it’s a common term.
but no, he totally just made the word up on the spot. outta nowhere.
ThymeZone
Guess what, Darrell. You were wrong again.
That nice little war you so assiduously defended? Accomplished nothing.
The stated reasons for it, and objectives, when it started? All lies, and bullshit. Just like I said.
The nonsense about “precise targeting” to avoid civilian casualties? Lies. Many more civilians than combatants were killed. A third of them children according to the bulk of the reports. Children bombed in their sleep, by liars, for political purposes …. to make a point. Just like I said. And you were there rooting for the murderers every fucking step of the way.
What’s more, you’ll find that the United States was in on the whole thing from the get go. You’ll find that the border skirmish that “started” it was nothing more than a trigger for an operation already planned and ready to go, just waiting for a provocation.
You’ll find that these Israeli turds in suits, in cahoots with American turds in suits, ginned up a useless war which caused a rain of rockets to be sent down upon their own people every day and night for a month … basically, for nothing but a political agenda.
If you keep reading, you’ll find that air war is nothing but mechanized terrorism, and always has been. Its entire purpose is to terrorize civilian populations to achieve goals that cannot be gained through armed and uniformed combat between warriors. You’ll find that terms like “collateral damage” are somescreens for sociopathic schemes that employ the terrorism of air war to achieve their ends. If you ever actually gain a mind or a soul, you’ll find out that there is no excuse for bombing children in their sleep or burning the faces off eight-year-olds in front of their mothers. Not even your deranged and inflated view of your own absolute rightness can excuse something like that.
But anyway, now that there’s a lull in the carnage, why don’t you write a nice long essay about how this war in Lebanon has accomplished great things for Israel and the US? Especially the part about how Hezbollah has been elevated in the eyes of every Arab on earth by the bungling idiots in Israel, and how American and Israeli interests have been harmed for the next twenty years now thanks to these ham-handed murdering fuckers?
Please go ahead. But don’t take too long, because the assholes who want war are still at work trying to gin up a lil’ sumpin’ sumpin’ in time for the American elections. They want to get their rumble on with Iran and Syria and make more fearmonger and warmonger speeches to Americans who need to be distracted from the collossal fuckup that was the last war these guys got us into.
Mac Buckets
Huh?
Do you need something, USP?
Darrell
What does the war in Afghanistan against Al Queda and Taliban have to do with this discussion?
John S.
You call the bullshit you pull here a discussion?
Interesting.
mrmobi
So George Allen got caught in his lie. Good. Now that he has apologized (kind of), would Gruppenfuhrer Darrell care to acknowledge that he’s an idiot?
Thymezone:
Mechanized terrorism, indeed. Like the firebombing of Dresden, which I believe killed more people than the Hiroshima bomb. I assume you’ve read “Slaughterhouse Five” by Kurt Vonnegut. The descriptions of bodies being removed afterward are excruciating. I believe Vonnegut was actually there, doing the work he describes. It reads like it left a mark.
Arguments can, and have, been made that the bombing of Dresden wasn’t necessary. It was done largely to make things easier for the Soviet army. Even Churchill had second throughts about the bombing campaign, saying:
Churchill sounds kind of like a flip-flopper there, no? I wonder how he would have fared against the likes of Rove & Co.? At least this carnage occurred during an actual war, not some ginned-up fantasy struggle better handled by good police work, as the Brits have recently shown.
So we’ve had ourselves another useless war in the middle-east, being careful to wait until we could attain a “sustainable” solution. The chess pieces have been moved around. Now it appears we were deeply involved in the planning of this one, too. No wonder we are so loved in the Arab world.
So all those innocent children in Lebanon were burned up, why, exactly? Oh, sorry, I’m reminded that it’s impossible to prove they were innocent by Gruppenfuhrer Darrell. Good to know. Life would be so much more complicated without Darrell and the National Socialist Party.
John S.
Gruppenfuhrer Darrell would first have to acknowledge that he is an idiot.
mrmobi
Thank you, John S. I misspoke.
I should have said “Now that Allen has apologized (kind of), would Gruppenfuhrer Darrell care to acknowledge that he came to the defense of a racist idiot?”
By the way, sports fans, is George Allen of the generation that played the game sans helmet?
It would explain a few things.
Darrell
Godwin asshole
Darrell
My point is/was that Thyme has no problem with all the innocent “collateral damage” resulting form Afghanistan or the bombings in the Balkans. But Israel inflicting collateral damage on innocents while fighting terrorists who choose to hide among civilians? Well, that’s a horrible atrocity that could only be defended by child murderers? Do you see what dishonest hypocrites you vermin are?
demimondian
Ok, Gruppenfuhrer Darrell, Godwin Asshole.
ThymeZone
No atrocity can be morally defended. But that doesn’t stop you from trying to do just that.
You did, and do now, defend the bombing of children in their sleep and burning the faces off eight-year olds in front of their mothers.
Stamp your feet all day, scream about some other atrocity as the excuse for it, doesn’t change a thing. You defend the slaughter of children, by liars, for political purposes, and then try to put up a smokescreen.
You are dirt.
ThymeZone
“Necessary” is a stretch that I am not willing to make.
“Unavoidable” in some grotesquely extreme cases, due mostly to politics more than military necessity, is about as far as I will go, and then only under the greatest pressure. But never, never necessary.
But even when you factor in the inavoidable tragic nature of war and politics, you don’t have moral justification.
There is no moral justification for terrorism, and air warfare is terrorism. A lot of people have put a lot of energy and words into calling it … or getting other people to call it … something else.
But it’s terrorism, plain and simple. Whether it’s a Katyusha rocket or an American airplane, if the weapon is aimed at civilians, it’s terrorism.
mrmobi
Gruppenfuhrer Darrell: Thymezone is more than capable of defending himself, but you really don’t know what you are talking about, do you?
Yes, there was “collateral damage” in the Balkans, as well as Afghanistan, but no, I’m pretty sure Thymezone has the same objection to those incidents as he does with the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict. No reasonable human being wants innocent children to be incinerated.
But what has gone on here is more calculation than stupidity. As we now know from Sy Hersh, well before the IDF soldiers were kidnapped, the Israelis had mapped out this war, they even came here to get the green light from Cheney. (not from the President, who was included after the fact) This is how your marvelous anti-terror administration is making things better, by effectively making the US such a pariah in the region that we can’t have any influence on a meaningful peace effort. This administration doesn’t believe in the UN, so they don’t make any real effort. All plans revolve around the use of force.
Take, for example, the bombing of the UN observation post. I must reluctantly agree with Koffi Annan that the UN outpost was deliberately targeted. It appears our Israeli friends were sending a message that they don’t want any observers too close. Mistakes happen in war, but if I had to bet, I’d say this was intentional.
Before you go off on one of your diatribes and call me a bigot, be assured that I, like most Americans, and like most here, believe in Israel’s right to exist. That doesn’t give the IDF a free pass to incinerate women and children. A real president would confront Israel on these excesses. A real president would be personally involved with all major players regardless of their status as members of some bullshit axis of evil.
Instead, we get “you are either with us or with the terrorists.” Instead, we get terror alerts whenever things aren’t going well politically. Instead, we get a moron in a president suit.
Cyrus
You BASTARD!
This belongs in a “Best of Darrell” file. Israel chose not to use a nuclear weapon in Jenin. Therefore, they broke no laws and crossed no ethical lines. BJ veterans might be reminded of the “don’t complain about torture because it’s not as bad as what
ArabsMuslimsterrorists do!” argument. Also the cavalier obsession with nuclear weapons (“glass” is a verb?) coupled with apparent ignorance of the idea that it might not be prudent to use them within miles of your own cities.Though on further reflection, maybe Darrell means “gassed” instead of “glassed”. That does make sense. After all, I’m sure it really was hard for Israelis to refrain from using poison gas.
And the periods. My God, the periods. Darrell has stuck to his roots here while breaking new ground at the same time. As always, he ended the post without a period, but I see he is experimenting with using an extra one to close the first complete sentence. He is leaving out commas and periods elsewhere as well. I eagerly await the rejection of capital letters, like his role models e.e. cummings and bell hooks. Can we look forward to an interrobang in the near future?
Darrell
In this instance, you’re “pretty sure” degree of confidence is completely wrong. Thyme has alredy been asked, and he’s clarified that Afghinstan bombings which included even worse civilian ‘collateral damage’ was justified according to him, because we were not intentionally murdering innocents in Afghanistan. His implications regarding Israel were clear.. congrats, for establishing yourself as another leftist halfwit without a clue.
Darrell
Tell us shit for brains, which “laws” did Israel break?
ImJohnGalt
And the ebon stain grows ever darker ‘pon his soul.
Darrell
You want to see a black soul IMJ? Look inside your own heart and that of your fellow leftists to find it
Jeezus you leftists are some sick fucks
ImJohnGalt
Hey, at least I have one, you ignorant prick.
The Other Steve
I’m sorry I’m not a bleeding heart Darrell.
John S.
I love when Darrell casually ignores posts that nail his lying ass to the wall.
lymie
So, no one lone fellow west of the Mississippi. Still no women, though, hmmmm? What are you afraid of?