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You are here: Home / Popular Culture / Can A Mormon Be President?

Can A Mormon Be President?

by John Cole|  November 27, 200611:07 am| 72 Comments

This post is in: Popular Culture

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Mike Allen at Time magazine asks the provocative question- “Can a Mormon Be President,” and then answers his own question:

Even if the church succeeds in its public relations offensive, Romney still has some explaining of his own to do, particularly to the Republican evangelical base, which now makes up nearly a third of the party’s electorate and can wield huge power in primary states, most notably South Carolina. That’s because some Evangelicals hold the view that Mormonism is not a Christian faith. Because Mormons acknowledge works of Scripture that are not in the Bible, believe that their prophets have received revelations directly from God and teach that God has a physical body, Evangelicals consider them heretics. The Southern Baptist Convention lists the LDS church under Cults and Sects, along with Scientology.

The answer then, is no. At least not right now. Notwithstanding Romney’s recent pandering to the right with his war on gay marriage and K-LO’s childish crush on Romney, the base is not going to vote for Romney in a primary. Not when there are good Christians like Sam Brownback out there- and Brownback has never been fuzzy on the issues of teh gay, stem cells, and abortion.

But who really knows what will happen, or how the religious right will contort to support the GOP. After all, we learned over the past few years that torture is a Christian family value, so maybe the evangelical base is ready for a Mormon president.

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72Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 11:14 am

    Not when there are good Christians like Sam Brownback out there- and Brownback has never been fuzzy on the issues of teh gay, stem cells, and abortion.

    While I would quake at the fate of our country in the aftermath, from a couch potatoe’s standpoint a Brownback-Clinton battle for the Presidency would probably be the most entertaining TV I’ve seen since Mark Foley stuck it to an intern.

    Republicans would go absolutely apeshit with the prospect of another Clinton in the White House. And Brownback’s list of “dumb things to say on the Senate floor” is as long as my arm. It would be a laugh a minute.

  2. 2.

    Jackmormon

    November 27, 2006 at 11:29 am

    If the choice is Romney vs. Brownback, no, the evangelicals won’t pick a Mormon. However, if the choice is Romney vs. McCain, the evangelicals might just meet Romney’s “family values” PR outreach halfway.

    I think that the early airing of sectarian disputes will work in Romney’s favor, btw. It plays into a long-standing feeling of being discriminated against for faith that is common to Mormons and the Republican base. I’m not saying that it’s a justified feeling these days, just that it’s there and that it can be rather easily worked upon by the culture-warriors.

  3. 3.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 11:42 am

    However, if the choice is Romney vs. McCain, the evangelicals might just meet Romney’s “family values” PR outreach halfway.

    I doubt that. McCain sold his soul to the Christian Right a year or two ago. He’s been sleeping with Falwell and Dobson for months, and the Straight Talk Express has been derailed since ’04. He’ll get all the right support and all the right friends in the Evangelical community when he makesh is ’08 bid. I don’t doubt that for a second.

  4. 4.

    capelza

    November 27, 2006 at 11:43 am

    I was just at The Moderate Voice and there is a raging (moderately of course) debate about a post with a picutre of the sacred garments (i.e. mormon underwear). I think the intention of the original author was to point out that pictures like that will become common if Romney runs. There are some good comments and it is an indication of feelings about Mormons in this country.

    I do know that the Baptists (Southern) in my family firmly believe that the Mormons are going to hell, even those wholesome Osmunds. There is an interesting undercurrent between the LDS and the SBC. A number of years ago, the SBC descended on Salt Lake City in an attempt to “save” the Mormons. It was an offensive thing to do. Though my Mormon friends mostly roll their eyes at it and we chuckle about it. Of course, they are “liberal” Mormons and one man actually lifted up his shirt and showed us the garment he wears and explained the symbols.

    I don’t know if the Southern Evangelical Right is ready for a Mormon. But I can promise you that things like sacred underwear and pork pie hats are going to be all over the place if Romney runs. It’s stupid, but then JFK’s Catholicism was an issue in 1960 as well (the Pope will run the country!!!).

    Oregon has a Mormon Senator and this really hasn’t been an issue, mostly because Gordon is a decent guy as Republicans go and he realises that most of the state is not Mormon or GOP.

  5. 5.

    Cyrus

    November 27, 2006 at 11:54 am

    Oh, you poor dumb bastard, don’t you realize what you’ve invited upon yourself? A theme of Andrew Sullivan’s blog recently is that some Christians evangelicals Christianists James Dobson and Jerry Falwell are so dogmatic and zealous that they wouldn’t support a certain candidate because he belongs to a different wacky religion from them, even though he agrees with them on most issues. For some reason, this terribly, bitterly angered Anne “concern troll” Althouse and Glenn “disenglennous” Reynolds. Glenn “not that one” Greenwald tried to inject a little reality into this one dispute, and then Althouse and Reynolds both posted about how… Greenwald is mean! And a stupid-head! And did we mention he has previously occasionally allegedly engaged in sock-puppetry? That means everything he has ever written is false — no, don’t ask me why.

    Greenwald has five updates, man! Oh, the humanity!

  6. 6.

    Jackmormon

    November 27, 2006 at 11:58 am

    McCain sold his soul to the Christian Right a year or two ago.

    I know he’s been trying to sell his soul, but I haven’t yet been convinced that they’re buying.

  7. 7.

    Jack K. the Grumpy Forester

    November 27, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    …while it wouldn’t be all that surprising to see the self-styled “leadership” of the religious right make noises in support of Romney, it’s a little hard to imagine the average Bible-believin’ social conservative turning out for him in large numbers if his religious affiliation becomes an issue. I grew up on the fault line between the Mormons and Roman Catholic/Reformationist Christianity, and it was pretty clear that all the Southern Baptists did was make it official; to professing Christians of almost any stripe, the LDS church is little more than a cult, and similar viewpoints on social issues doens’t normally make them fellow travelers except in a diffident sort of “enemy of my enemy is my friend” way…

    On the other hand, Romney is the elected governor of Massachusetts…

  8. 8.

    Pb

    November 27, 2006 at 12:18 pm

    On the other hand, Romney is the elected governor of Massachusetts…

    (Cue those guys from the old Pace Picante commercials…)

    Massachusetts?!

  9. 9.

    Bob Ramsey

    November 27, 2006 at 12:24 pm

    It is true that most Christian fundamentalists and Evangelicals do not consider Mormonism to be a faithful representation of Christianity. I’m not sure what’s all that shocking about this – and I suspect that the Christian Right could support Romney as long he soft peddles his faith and goes strong with his social conservatism.

    What I find most interesting here is the other side of the equation: the fact that Mormons consider themselves to be the only true representatives of Christ on earth. They will sometimes dance around this in dialog, but in the end, if Mitt Romney is a faithful Mormon, then he has the same views on his faith as Sam Brownbeck on his, albeit with different underwear.

  10. 10.

    moonbiter

    November 27, 2006 at 12:39 pm

    After all, we learned over the past few years that torture is a Christian family value

    I would have assumed that was self-evident. After all, many such folks see Hell as just punishment for the wicked, and what is Hell if not a giant torture chamber?

  11. 11.

    Jay

    November 27, 2006 at 12:45 pm

    I keep reading “Can a moron be president?” and thinking “Why is he asking us now?”

    The Evans are so effective because they’re very good at condemning an act or group on Day One and teaming up with them the next day if it will advance their agenda. They’ll say supporting a Mormon will help show his fellow Mormons “the light,” and have at it. If Republican candidates insist on pandering to that set (why?!?), I predict a race to the bottom in terms of who can spout the scariest rhetoric.

    Since Bush failed to deliver, the Radical Religious Rabble will be cynical and demand a lot to convince them that this time the candidate will really, really, cross my heart and hope to die, outlaw two people of the same gender from being alone together and make assaulting a stem cell punishable by death or what ever it is they want. If Romney “wins” the rhetoric contest then he will at least get their vote.

  12. 12.

    KCinDC

    November 27, 2006 at 12:45 pm

    I think that the early airing of sectarian disputes will work in Romney’s favor, btw. It plays into a long-standing feeling of being discriminated against for faith that is common to Mormons and the Republican base.

    But the early airing will be in the primaries, so it will be other Republicans “discriminating against” Romney by pointing out certain aspects of his religion, no doubt in TV ads by “independent” groups. I don’t see that helping him.

  13. 13.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 12:49 pm

    I would have assumed that was self-evident. After all, many such folks see Hell as just punishment for the wicked, and what is Hell if not a giant torture chamber?

    From a theological perspective, Hell isn’t anything more than a location absent from God’s presence. The idea is that when you die, God decides if he wants you in his Country Club. Once outside of God’s Divine and Loving Presence, you just get to hang out with all the other rejects. And the assumption is that everyone will start torturing each other once God stops looking over their shoulders. So in that sense, the idea that we should encourage on Earth what would be Blasphemous in Heaven is a very, very, very unChristian concept. From a theological perspective.

  14. 14.

    ThymeZone

    November 27, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    I’m not sure what’s all that shocking about this

    Many people, including me, consider Mormonism about an inch away from being a cult. I live in the Mormon part of the country. Out here we have entire towns that are considered Mormon strongholds.

    I don’t know how anybody can read the Book of Mormon and study the behavior of the church and not at least have serious questions about the sanity of these people. I find the Mormon church to be scary and disturbing.

    There’s a mountain of information out there, and all can reserach and come to their own conclusions, but to talk about Mormonism as if it were just another flavor of Christianity is …. to me, a little like describing the Taliban as just another flavor of Islam.

  15. 15.

    Andrew

    November 27, 2006 at 1:01 pm

    The Moderate Voice is indeed going ape shit over whether or not it is moderate to post pictures of Mormon jammies. It also seems that they’re having a “who is the moderate-ist!” contest. Joe Gandleman is actually moderate, whereas all of the others are radical moderates-for-the-sake-of-centrism-above-all-else who don’t actually take any sensical positions on anything.

    It’s a ton of fun to call them out on how stupid and immoderate they are.

  16. 16.

    Pooh

    November 27, 2006 at 1:01 pm

    (Cue those guys from the old Pace Picante commercials…)

    Massachusetts?!

    Somebody get a rope!

    (As an aside, am I the only one who read the post title too fast and said: “John, where the hell have you been these past six years, of course a Moron can be President…)

  17. 17.

    Jimmmm

    November 27, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    We already have a Moron as president.

    Duh!

  18. 18.

    Jon Karak

    November 27, 2006 at 1:13 pm

    The correct question is: Can a Mormon Be President While Pandering to an Evangelical Christian Base?

  19. 19.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 1:14 pm

    I think South Park explains it best.

    That said, if you can’t believe Joseph Smith but you’re totally willing to buy that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Lazarus rose from the dead just because it happened a longer time ago… I mean, Mormonism is a textbook example of how if you write shit down and explain how “God said it” people will believe anything. But if you believe that its somehow less reliable or less believable than every other mainstream religion, you’re kidding yourself.

    And besides, even South Park admits its the only correct religion to get into Heaven.

  20. 20.

    grumpy realist

    November 27, 2006 at 1:20 pm

    There’s a good site (www.exmormon.org) which has quite a lot of discussion on different issues concerning Mormonism.

    Those that left describe it as a cult (“The Morg”).

  21. 21.

    Pb

    November 27, 2006 at 1:36 pm

    I don’t know how anybody can read the Book of Mormon and study the behavior of the church and not at least have serious questions about the sanity of these people.

    Exhibit A: Orson Scott Card (D-Lieberman)

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    November 27, 2006 at 1:53 pm

    Soon to be President Hillary Clinton must be laughing as she prepares her legion of Imperial Stormtroopers for a kinder gentler reign of fear from the current reign of terror.

    If that’s the best the GOP have in the works right now, they may as well roll over and brace for the anal probes.

  23. 23.

    The Saint

    November 27, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    After all, we learned over the past few years that torture is a Christian family value, so maybe the evangelical base is ready for a Mormon president.

    I think this is right on target. Evangelical Christians (at least over the past few decades) have become nothing if not pragmatic. Look at the number of thieving, divorced, philandering, wife-beating, mistress-choking Republicans that have been and are still influential in politics. As long as you’re not gay or pro-choice, and you underplay the focus of the Bible on the poor and the outcasts, I think you can slide by.

  24. 24.

    bfy

    November 27, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    Harry Reid is a Mormon isn’t he? Why couldn’t a Mormon head a Democratic ticket, where he wouldn’t need to tangle with the fundies?

  25. 25.

    Vladi G

    November 27, 2006 at 2:03 pm

    But if you believe that its somehow less reliable or less believable than every other mainstream religion, you’re kidding yourself.

    I don’t think the length of time has as much to do with it as who the beneficiaries are. Moses supposedly had to do a lot of pretty tough stuff to please God. Jesus had to essentially commit suicide to please God. Joseph Smith? When he got a little randy, God conveniently told him he could fuck anything in a skirt. Told him he HAD to, in fact. Then, when the feds started breathing down their neck, God conveniently told him it was time to stop it (but he could still do it privately).

    Let’s compare two hypothetical guys starting religions. Guy #1 says that he has to get shit on for most of his life. Guy #2 says that God told him he gets to be a real bad-ass. I’m thinking Guy #1 has a little more credibility. Sure, they both sound crazy, but Guy #1 at least doesn’t come off like a con man.

  26. 26.

    ThymeZone

    November 27, 2006 at 2:11 pm

    Guy #1 says that he has to get shit on for most of his life

    No, that’s marriage, the basis of civilization.

    One man, one woman, etc.

  27. 27.

    Bombadil

    November 27, 2006 at 2:30 pm

    On the other hand, Romney is the elected governor of Massachusetts…

    Oh, like you never woke up the next morning, took a look at what was lying beside you and said “WTF?!”

    Besides, Boston is the home of the headquarters of the Christian Science church, and among our first inhabitants were those stalwarts of religious tolerance, the Pilgrims (who, in one of their first demonstrations of their acceptance of different thinkers, threw Roger Williams and company out of the clan and sent them off to found Rhode Island). Let’s just say that religious loonies have long found a home here.

  28. 28.

    Faux News

    November 27, 2006 at 2:50 pm

    if Mitt Romney is a faithful Mormon, then he has the same views on his faith as Sam Brownbeck on his, albeit with different underwear.

    I’m glad someone finally mentioned the secret underwear:

    http://www.wonkette.com/politics/2008/mitt-romneys-underwear-coverup-217378.php

  29. 29.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 3:09 pm

    Let’s compare two hypothetical guys starting religions. Guy #1 says that he has to get shit on for most of his life. Guy #2 says that God told him he gets to be a real bad-ass. I’m thinking Guy #1 has a little more credibility. Sure, they both sound crazy, but Guy #1 at least doesn’t come off like a con man.

    Firstly, if I was an agnostic who’d gone religion shopping and one guy presents me with the “Get eaten by lions” religion while another bills himself as the “Have a bunch of beautiful women service you as your wives”, I don’t have to think hard to pick one.

    Secondly, the Mormons got run off of enough townships in their time to offically receive the title of “Martyrs”. I don’t think Smith even made it all the way to Utah.

    Thirdly, explain to me how modern Pat Robertson Evangelism in any way suggests that Christian Americans for American Jesus in America should take shit and not dish it out like badasses.

    The only difference between Mormonism and the rest is population. If this was a country of 120 million Mormons and a few million Southern Baptists, it would be those crazy grape-juice-drinking, breast-beating, gay-lynching Baptists who’d be in a ‘cult’ and Mormons staring down their noses at such a wacky belief system.

  30. 30.

    Tsulagi

    November 27, 2006 at 3:11 pm

    If Brownback runs, he’d be the man for The Base which has shown itself to be equal parts retardation and steroidal Jesus Juice. Brownback is just about as stupid as Bush, but is a little more articulate and more importantly more Dobson Jesus centered. An upgrade.

    Romney wouldn’t stand a chance against Brownback. A Mormon from Mass? Please. As Dobson recently said, the reason the Pubs lost the midterms was because they didn’t pander to the base enough. They don’t want that to happen again.

    When the primaries head to the South, the Patriot Pastors will have their swiftboat warriors ready with the knives for non-approved Christians and heretics. If running, Romney would found to be a secret polygamist with multiple black, brown, and yellow children from his hidden unmarried wives. He’d also be a weekend closet gay who had fooled around with Barney Frank and other liberals in Mass. For added good measure, he’d be known not to support the troops. Romney would be sliced up by the good Christians just as McCain was in 00.

  31. 31.

    Vladi G

    November 27, 2006 at 3:18 pm

    Firstly, if I was an agnostic who’d gone religion shopping and one guy presents me with the “Get eaten by lions” religion while another bills himself as the “Have a bunch of beautiful women service you as your wives”, I don’t have to think hard to pick one.

    No argument here. I’m not talking about which one was the tougher sell. I’m talking about which guy might seem a bit more invested in the actual “faith” part of the religion.

    Secondly, the Mormons got run off of enough townships in their time to offically receive the title of “Martyrs”. I don’t think Smith even made it all the way to Utah.

    Only by other mormons. Look, I’m not particularly religious, but when you openly flout local laws and traditional social mores, you can’t be too shocked when the heat comes. And they didn’t just passively move on and go about their business. The Mormon War and the Mountain Meadows Massacre ring a bell?

    Thirdly, explain to me how modern Pat Robertson Evangelism in any way suggests that Christian Americans for American Jesus in America should take shit and not dish it out like badasses.

    Sorry, I was talking about actual Christianity, not the “send me all your money” Pat Robertson type.

    We aren’t really in much of a disagreement. I think they’re all fucking nuts.

  32. 32.

    Perry Como

    November 27, 2006 at 3:27 pm

    Can A Mormon Be President?

    No.

    This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.

  33. 33.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 3:31 pm

    We aren’t really in much of a disagreement. I think they’re all fucking nuts.

    Well then… … … Amen, I guess.

  34. 34.

    fwiffo

    November 27, 2006 at 3:48 pm

    I’m a little shocked to find that it’s about to be me of all people who’s going to be definding Mormons.

    I happen to think that the magic jammies make no less sense than any other religious garb. Have you ever seen a Hasidic Jew and thought “oh yeah, I can totally see how God would want me to wear that” or perhaps “Pope-hat? Jesus DEMANDS it!”

    In fact, I think they make a whole lot more sense, in a way. They’re a personal, private reminder of religious conviction instead of an advertisement.

    Matthew 6:6 – But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

    I don’t think being a Mormon is necessarily disqualifying – I could see myself voting for Harry Reid for President, for instance (depending on what the other choices were).

  35. 35.

    Jay

    November 27, 2006 at 4:35 pm

    As Dobson recently said, the reason the Pubs lost the midterms was because they didn’t pander to the base enough. They don’t want that to happen again.

    Typical Rambo Jesus thinking: You disobeyed me, I’m God’s right hand man, therefore God rendered an almighty smack down when you failed to heed my words. Any polititian stupid enough to believe the Dobsonites will carry him to the White House in ’08 deserves to lose.

    Running on a hyper social conservative platform works occassionally. Doing it cycle after cycle only frightens off the rest of the voters.

    But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet,

    A line that sHaggard misinterpreted to his lasting chagrin.

  36. 36.

    Lee

    November 27, 2006 at 4:37 pm

    Off topic:

    Here is a 10 day old post I just ran across from an Iraqi Blogger that I found interesting.

    Here

  37. 37.

    Pb

    November 27, 2006 at 4:59 pm

    Besides, Boston is the home of the headquarters of the Christian Science church, and among our first inhabitants were those stalwarts of religious tolerance, the Pilgrims

    And thanks to my New Englander heritage, I’ve got members from both of those in my ancestry, yay!

  38. 38.

    Zifnab

    November 27, 2006 at 6:11 pm

    In fact, I think they make a whole lot more sense, in a way. They’re a personal, private reminder of religious conviction instead of an advertisement.

    They’re chastity belts for the middle-aged. Pope-hats and rabbinical garb are “required” only so far as the ceremony is concerned. I like to think of Mormon jammies as more of a Jewish shellfish thing. It may have made some sense to somebody a long time ago, but now its just a dogmatic hold-over.

    Besides, if I were a Mormon, I’d probably forgo the full-body tighty whities. But if I were a Pope, you wouldn’t be able to pry that hat off me.

  39. 39.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 27, 2006 at 6:22 pm

    Out here in NE OR there are significant numbers of Mormons, not enough to swing elections, but they do get elected. The conservative Christian churches outnumber the liberal churches. I’ve never seen out front statements about a Mormon’s religion, which is not to say it isn’t said, simply not as a campaign issue. This, obviously, says nothing about the South.

    I can see the Theocratic right splitting on Romney in the Primary, but not its leaders, I don’t think they could swallow Mitt other than in an election against a Dem.

    Romney’s version of conservatism is going to run smack into the John Cole version and isn’t going to look like a winning vote. I don’t think MR has a chance. As far as who will actually win, I’m done with betting on stupidity.

  40. 40.

    lard lad

    November 27, 2006 at 8:21 pm

    I wouldn’t lay a plugged nickel on the chances of either Romney or Brownback… the Xian right has a lot of drag in the GOP, but not enough to get a open fundamentalist in the White House. (Bush, you’ll recall, campaigned as much more of a moderate in 2000.) Most Americans, even religious ones, simply don’t want a hardcore bible-thumper for President.

    On the other hand, the fundamantalists DO have the clout to keep pro-choicer Rudy Guiliani from getting the nomination — even though he’s the most electable candidate they have. They’d shut down the convention rather than let a baby-killer carry the Repub mantle.

    Which leaves McCain, who isn’t really trusted by either wing of the GOP… though he might squeak through as a lesser-of-two-evils candidate.

    All in all, not much here to inspire hopes for a GOP prez in 2008… and if the party carries out its threatened shift even further right, I predict they’ll get royally shellacked in Congress as well.

    Heh heh.

  41. 41.

    The Other Steve

    November 27, 2006 at 9:49 pm

    Can a Mormon be elected President?

    I guess that depends. Do they want to shove their religion down my throat?

  42. 42.

    Krista

    November 27, 2006 at 10:27 pm

    But if I were a Pope, you wouldn’t be able to pry that hat off me.

    I don’t know…I think rooms with ceiling fans would be slightly problematic.

  43. 43.

    jake

    November 27, 2006 at 11:45 pm

    and if the party carries out its threatened shift even further right,

    A further shift to the right, at least on social issues would result in either one of two things:
    1. The Rev. Fred Phelps* takes the nomination for 2008
    or
    2. Some sort of idealogical Ritalin effect that causes the RRR to become a bunch of lefty liberals.

    j

    *I could link to his website but that would involve going to his website and I’d sooner look at angel babies while giving Katherine Harris a hot oil massage.

  44. 44.

    Chris Stevens

    November 28, 2006 at 12:21 am

    As a Democrat I am really enjoying the idea of Romney running for office. He does not have a chance of getting the nomination and will probably end up helping Gullianni more than anyone else. The Christian right will never vote for a Mormon because their religion is anti-Christian. The Mormon church really promotes the abandonment of many of Christ’s teachings and just being anti gay and anti abortion does not change that one little bit. Muslims are anti gay and anti abortion as well but the Christian right would not vote for a Muslim for president would they?

    The Mormon’s claim that American Natives decended from the lost tribe of Israel. Now with DNA testing, it is a proven fact that this is not true. They link all of their religious texts back to Christianity through this claim, that the lost tribe made its way to America and left their sacred texts for the Mormons to find. What the Mormons really believe is not widely known by most Americans. Romney running for president would put all of their weird beliefs into the spot light. Tom Cruise is going to end up looking as sane as Judge Alito once people realize how kooky the Mormon religion really is.

  45. 45.

    DougJ

    November 28, 2006 at 12:42 am

    I’ve got to say that as whacked out faiths go, I’m pretty pro-Mormon. Name another group of white Christians that has produced as many credible Jackson Fivish hits (I like the song “One Bad Apple”, I really do) and NBA players.

    It dawned on me with McCain the other day that the Republican base just doesn’t trust the guy. And you know what? They’re right not to. He’s a snake oil salesman.

    And those morons (republican evangelicals) would vote for Boy George if Dobson told them too. They’ll certainly vote for Romney if he makes the right deal with their leaders.

  46. 46.

    DougJ

    November 28, 2006 at 12:49 am

    You really think Dobson and Falwell would back a loser like Brownback over Romney? No freaking way. If George Allen were in the race, they might back him. And it’s still not out of the question that they might back McCain or even Rudi. But no way they back some no-chance clown just because he’s the right flavor of Jesus freak.

  47. 47.

    Jackmormon

    November 28, 2006 at 1:18 am

    This RedState thread is really interesting; you see some people argue themselves into almost supporting polygamy as a conservative position, and others argue themselves into supporting Romney out of frustration with theological argument.

    (This comment is actually intelligent; it addresses some of the differences between the polygamy practiced today by fugitives and that described by female writers back when the surrounding conditions were very different.)

    Anyway, my point is, and always was, that Romney can only benefit from this stuff getting aired early. The RedState folks are having their theological fits, and I think they’re starting to agree that doctrinal purity might be difficult to enforce in the political arena. The most recent posts on Romney focus on abortion, and they’re asking for commitments.

    The arc seems pretty clear already: a year of pseudo-anti-Mormon narratives, but with Romney’s carefully coded promises about judges and so forth, he might just overcome those prejudices.

    [By the way, the question to Romney shouldn’t be “do you wear garments?” Rather, it should be “do you hold a Temple recommend?” If the latter, then the former–and a whole host of things besides.]

  48. 48.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 28, 2006 at 1:50 am

    Guiliani – no way. Anti-gun, pro-choice, New York, he’s supposed to be a pretty smart guy, I can’t think why he’d walk into that buzz saw.

    We might be fairly polite about somebody’s religion out here in NE OR, but Romney’s Mormonism is made to be played and those Republican operatives play rough. What OR thinks on the matter won’t count, by then.

    I don’t know if McCain can make the sale or not, he’s been saying the right things for a couple years, memory is short and R’s seem to forgive memory lapses, especially if they get dressed up in a Flag. They sure went gaga over a flight suit.

    I’m betting they’ll dig up somebody more noxious than McCain, but not quite a toxic as Brownback, with better creds than Romney. Buchanon has been leading a pretty high profile life lately…But he is pretty straight ahead Conservative.

  49. 49.

    lard lad

    November 28, 2006 at 4:53 am

    If had to put money on the line on the GOP prez nomination at the beginning of summer, I’d have staked every cent on George Allen. Man had the qualities heartland Repubs eat off a stick: he’s a fake good ol’ boy just like Bush, he’s a genial dunce just like Bush, and he doesn’t make an ass of himself every time he speaks, unlike Brownback and (guffaw) Bill Frist.

    Too bad for Allen that when he did fuck up publicly, it was a doozy. Fucker macaca’d himself right into the dumpster.

    Heh heh.

  50. 50.

    scs

    November 28, 2006 at 5:37 am

    Scs says: He may have been a swindler, but at least he may have been an effective swindler, and at least not a mass murderer.You wanted a plan and a quick exit right? Beggars can’t be choosers.

    And once again Scs demonstrates why her mouth should only be opened to receive a Marine’s dick in it.

    by Tengu Phele – or however you spell that posters name. This doesn’t have anything to do with anything. I just wanted to illustrate the high level of discourse we have on this site run by John Cole and the action he takes against it.

  51. 51.

    scs

    November 28, 2006 at 5:40 am

    by the way Tengu is most likely a DougJ clone – as are most of the posters in this segment. For some reason DougJ is attracted to this site. That kind of makes me wonder who exactly condones this, or partakes in it – the blogleaders perhaps?

  52. 52.

    scs

    November 28, 2006 at 5:56 am

    And also, in case you’re wondering, that blcok quote from Tenge comes from the “Chalabi Redux” post the next page.

  53. 53.

    mclaren

    November 28, 2006 at 7:27 am

    Interesting point about Romney. Have to admit I’m not up on these witch hunts and counter-witch-hunts among the extreme religious right, so I had no idea that the Southern Baptist Convention considers Mormonism a “cult.”

    Of course, to many of us, _all_ religions qualify as cults — the only differences involving size. The death cult called “Islam” is huge, and that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a death cult, any more than the immense size of the cult called “Christianity” changes the fact that it’s a cult devoted to money rather than death, just as the immense cult called “Buddhism” seems primarily focused on navel-gazing.

    To those of us who prefer common sense and skeptical critical thinking to fairy tales about an invisible man who lives in the sky, distinctions between the Aum Shin Rikyo cult noted for releasing sarin in a Japanese subway and the Christian cult which specializes in murdering abortionists are too insignificant to notice.

    2008 should prove an interesting Presidential year. For the first time in many a year, neither party has an obvious front runner. Romney, as you point out, seems clearly disqualified, and McCain has been so badly crippled by his blind mindless adherence to the failed imbecilities of the drunk-driving C student in the White House that McCain is probably dead on arrival. The fact that he’s now tacking far right in a failed effort to court the far religious right, even though the recent election has proven that most Americans reject the agenda of the fundamentalist lunatic fringe, clinches McCain’s irrelevance. If he does get any traction in the primaries, no challenger will have to look far to find lethal sound bites to use against him.

    Hillary might seem like a front-runner now, but her equally mindless support of the Iraq fiasco has fatally injured her. The nominees from both parties are likely to be dark horses this year. It’s been quite a while since that happened in a presidential race. 1960?

    Interesting how the Iraq debacle has acted like political Ebola, infecting and destroying everyone who touched it in both parties. By the time the 2008 Presidential primaries roll around, America will still be flailing around in Iraq like an insect stuck in yogurt and the only difference will be the magnitude of the carnage. If you think Repubs or Demos who supported the war are taking heat now, wait till the summer of 2008 when suicide bomb attacks kill 5000 Iraqis per day and 300 American soldiers die per day. People like McCain and Hillary will backpedal on their Iraq support so fast you’ll hear a sonic boom…but it won’t help.

    Obama is the obvious dark horse on the Demo side of the aisle, but what about the Repub equivalent? Is there anyone? Or does the right have nothing but a swamp of religious crazies like Gingrich to offer — people who don’t appear on the radar screen not because they’re unpublicized, but because they’re too demented to be taken seriously?

  54. 54.

    The Other Steve

    November 28, 2006 at 8:21 am

    2008 GOP Nomination will be Mike Huckabee for Pres and Tim Pawlenty for VP.

    Campaign slogan will be cute little “I Heart Huckabee” buttons.

    And if you think I’m joking… You don’t know the modern GOP!

  55. 55.

    ThymeZone

    November 28, 2006 at 9:54 am

    the high level of discourse we have on this site run by John Cole and the action he takes against it

    Everybody knows that John writes your posts. Whenever he can’t sleep at night, “scs” pays a visit to the blog.

    You can be eliminated with just a glass of warm milk.

  56. 56.

    fwiffo

    November 28, 2006 at 10:01 am

    I agree with TOS. Mike Huckabee is the only GOP potential that the Democrats have to fear. On the other hand, they probably have plenty to fear from some of their own potential candidates (Joe Biden, WTF?) Huckabee should not be misunderestimated.

    McCain has a slim outside chance, but the base, yadda, yadda.

    If Gullianni wins the nomination, liberals might as well dance in the street celebrating the utter and complete death of conservatism. No way the GOP nominates his pro-choicin’, gay-pride marchin’, drag-wearin’, philanderin’, gun-controllin’ ass.

  57. 57.

    ThymeZone

    November 28, 2006 at 10:10 am

    You can be eliminated with just right after drinking a glass of warm milk of magnesia .

    Edited.

  58. 58.

    grumpy realist

    November 28, 2006 at 10:13 am

    How about Hegel? I have a soft spot in my heart for him, and not just because he’s from Nebraska.

  59. 59.

    Krista

    November 28, 2006 at 10:47 am

    Everybody knows that John writes your posts. Whenever he can’t sleep at night, “scs” pays a visit to the blog.

    Then again, Tim is the only one out of the three posters who actually pays any attention to scs. Perhaps it’s a “he who smelt it, dealt it” situation? Tim? Is scs a malevolent personage trapped in your frontal lobe, who only comes out to play when you’ve ingested too much Pinot Noir?

  60. 60.

    Jay

    November 28, 2006 at 10:59 am

    You can be eliminated with just a glass of warm milk syrup of ipecac.

    Now it’s fixed. Although I must object to the idea of a Marine having any sort of contact with scs. Haven’t our troops suffered enough?

  61. 61.

    scarshapedstar

    November 28, 2006 at 10:59 am

    At first I thought you wrote

    Can a Moron Be President

    and I thought you were starting your own “simple answers to simple questions” feature.

  62. 62.

    DougJ

    November 28, 2006 at 11:56 am

    Buchanon has been leading a pretty high profile life lately…But he is pretty straight ahead Conservative.

    No way Patty Patty Buke Buke gets it either. With George Allen gone, I just don’t see who besides Romney is out there.

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    November 28, 2006 at 1:45 pm

    Scs Says: This doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

    Scs’s Irony of the Day.

  64. 64.

    TenguPhule

    November 28, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    Although I must object to the idea of a Marine having any sort of contact with scs. Haven’t our troops suffered enough?

    I apologize to all Marines past and present who may have been offended by my remark.

  65. 65.

    Chuck Butcher

    November 28, 2006 at 2:55 pm

    No, I don’t think Buchanon has a chance, I don’t know that it’s a given that he wouldn’t try. He’s not the current “cup of tea” but the Primary could get pretty weird.

    Looking at the Republicans making up Congress is somewhat instructive, these are the survivors of what very nearly turned into a bloodbath and was a pretty good “thumpin.” I would think that their success in hanging on will be reflected in the Primary election. If you could synthesize their campaign hot topics into one candidate I think you’d see the Primary winner. I don’t think this line of reasoning makes Brownback look all that unreasonable, but I could also guess that the eventual winner hasn’t shown yet. The early running ought to show some vote splitting happening, maybe just enough to make the thing really contentious. In that scenario, where the gloves come off, Romney and McCain are done, what they don’t do to each other, a third party will do. Whatever chunk Guiliani starts off with is what he’s going to get, no way he spreads his appeal. I don’t know enough about Brownback to know if he’s got some skeletons that could be used against him in a fight with Romney & McCain.

    I’m actually pretty pleased to see things looking as I see it, I’m a Left Dem and the R’s pulling themselves apart and putting up a candidate reflective of the electoral votes held by the R’s in Congress will make a more left Dem look pretty good to the voters. That sure wouldn’t help Hillary’s appeal in the Primaries with those “centrist” appologists.

  66. 66.

    cs

    November 28, 2006 at 4:12 pm

    There’s an interesting problem with Brownback as the non-Mormon fundie alternative candidate: in 2002, Brownback converted to Catholicism (thanks to Santorum).

    I’m not sure what the current evangelical / fundamentalist position is regarding Catholics, but, when I was a kid and still attending a Baptist church, the Catholics were considered only a few steps higher than the Mormons, and were often attacked from the pulpit. Besides, I think the conversion could easily be used to paint Brownback as a “traitor” to traditional values.

    So, its gotta be Huckabee as both of the other “Christian” candidates have theological flaws that will give Huckabee an impossible-to-resist opening.

  67. 67.

    John

    November 29, 2006 at 10:40 am

    All this talk of polygamy and Romney. Funny thing is he’s been married one time to one woman for over 30 years. The other GOP hopefuls (Rudy, McCain, Newt, Allen [no longer]) are all divorced and remarried—i.e., multiple wives.

  68. 68.

    demimondian

    November 29, 2006 at 12:11 pm

    It’s also worth pointing out that the Latter Day Saints no longer allow polygamy — it’s really an old slandar.

  69. 69.

    Bombadil

    November 30, 2006 at 11:56 am

    But will Romney and his followers be Mormons, Mormonists, or Mormonofacists?

  70. 70.

    jake

    December 2, 2006 at 12:16 am

    I’m not sure what the current evangelical / fundamentalist position is regarding Catholics

    That posistion is still best summed up as: Have fun in hell papist goat worshippers!

  71. 71.

    imp

    May 6, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    Romney is a one-term governor and a flip-flopper. His Mormonism is a side issue to his egomania.

    He’ll be out of this race on something — scandal, misstatement, whatever — before the end of summer.

Comments are closed.

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  1. Staunton News says:
    December 21, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    Can A Mormon Be President?

    Sure, anyone can be president if you get the votes. Mormon, Black, White, Male, Female, it doesn’t really matter. The U.S. Citizens will vote for who they believe will be the pest president. The problem is, many voters don’t know what they …

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