Happy MLK Day.
Any plans?
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
The willow is too close to the house.
Everybody saw this coming.
Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.
The worst democrat is better than the best republican.
Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.
They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!
Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?
I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.
Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.
When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.
Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.
I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.
Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
It’s the corruption, stupid.
A Senator Walker would be an insult to the state and the nation.
The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.
I really should read my own blog.
We still have time to mess this up!
Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.
The words do not have to be perfect.
It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.
Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.
The Other Steve
My plan is to sit home all day on the computer responding to balloon-juice messages.
sparky
oh yeah? well i’m gonna sit here and read balloon-juice messages!
Face
We’ze FUCKED tomorrow.
This is when it begins. Another Black Tuesday.
ChristieS
I’ve still got homework to finish. ::sigh:: I live for long weekends to get it all done.
In some ways it sucks to be going back to school in your 40s. Your brain just doesn’t want to learn this stuff as quickly as you could have when you were in your teens and 20s.
;D
Punchy
/stares at work cubicle with work peers while doing work, blinks at BJ post in disbelief
Crackers get this day off, too?
in canaduh
Punchy> crackers MAKE the holidays , like wizards
Zifnab
Woo! *high five’s punchy* Horray work! This is the best MLK day I’ve had since last MLK day when I was at work.
cleek
we have an appointment with a financial planner today. if he hasn’t hung himself by the time we get there, that is.
Some Guy Named Matt
I plan to show up to work and space out for about an hour (check). Spend the next 15 minutes hanging out here (check). Take a quick spin around the office and bullshit for the next 30 minutes. Then space out till 5 minutes before lunch. Decice that there is no point of starting anything 5 minutes before lunch, so screw it, and take lunch.
For the afternoon i plan on repeating my morning schedule.
Punchy
By the way, I have to thank all of you peeps again. You shoulda seen me this ‘kend at the werk par-tay….I was throwing out “sub-prime”, “derivatives”, “bulks”, “deleterious and/or nonexistant refinancing” (as well as the ubiquitous “damn, what dept does SHE work in?” crack) all over the place. Guy even asked me if I was an accountant. Damn near choked my white russian.
All thanks to those sub-prime threads. Now everyone thinks I’m smart. Not sure how long I can maintain that facade, but it’ll be fun for awhile.
zzyzx
What am I doing? Working. What else?
Dug Jay
Great News, according to atrios:
While the US stock markets are closed today, the DOW futures are off 350 points early this morning.
“WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”
I hope all you folks have set aside a little money for that rainy day when you are wiped out in the market and/or are made redundant.
peach flavored shampoo
Curious to know how African-Americans feel about (one of) their most important holidays being labeled as this.
Scientific or not, not something you really want to pimp, Time Magazine.
myiq2xu
WTF? No ball-scratching?
Mary
Thanks so much for the economic domino effect, American banks. Fuckers.
The Toronto stock exchange fell about 500 points so far this morning, and world markets look as shitty. At least my scheduled RSP payment today will be buying low.
RSA
Got MLK?
I’ll be spending most of my time writing papers and attending meetings.
Dennis - SGMM
Remember the blimp? Now, check out the Ron Paul Limo.
AlphaFactor
Happy MLK Day.
I still haven’t quite come to grips with how they like to combine the holiday with “Robert E Lee Day” in the South.
Some Guy Named Matt
I always thought that was more of a TSATWWEEHO (tuesday stuck at work when everybody else has off) type of thing. or maybe that’s just me.
myiq2xu
You have obviously never heard about the first female letter carrier.
After a successful lawsuit this woman was hired by the US Postal Service. Her new supervisor told her “We usually start at 8am, so you come in at 9:00 tommorrow.”
When she asked why she should start an hour later than everyone else, the supervisor told her “Because we always stand around scratching our balls for the first hour or so.”
myiq2xu
Here’s a picture of the Clagina making a speech.
Face
Question–anyone know how far along they are in rebuilding the Twin Towers? Going on 7 years later, and they havent put up some kick-ass building? Dont they build skyscrapers in less than 4 years, typically?
Have they even started building yet?
myiq2xu
If the same guys who are building the US embassy in Iraq are involved, it’ll take 5 times longer and cost 10 times more than it should and nothing in the place will work right.
Zifnab
Weak!~ You can do better.
myiq2xu
Hey! That was my first time linking to something.
You’re gonna make me regret the nice things I said about your “Jeebus in the Anus” link.
Punchy
Where’s TZ? Chuck D has told me that he is certainly at work today…
The Grand Panjandrum
C’mon myiq2xu. I found this in the same photo stream. Now that’s what I’m talking about! We want funny or degrading. Balloon Juice does have standards, ya know.
myiq2xu
McCain gives his victory speech?
Mr. Sifter
Please visit my blog to read this entire post.
As is the tradition on MLK day, we will hear politicians invoke his name in honor of his contribution to our nation. All of these politicians now decry segregation and support the civil rights act. Hence, many of them completely miss the significance of Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King was about standing up for the opressed, not when it is easy to do so, but when it is hard. Its pretty easy now to celebrate the end of segregation, only a tiny sliver of the population would support going back to the days of Jim Crow. MLK was much more then just an advocate for equality among the races. He advocated religious tolerance, protested against the Vietnam war, advocated for civil liberties, human rights, and thought America’s next great challenge was fighting poverty.
Today, we will hear the likes of Senator McCain invoke the name of MLK, he who says he wont vote someone of a different religion, who zealously supports the Iraq war, who would rather keep the health care profit system in place then cover everybody, and who voted against the creation of MLK day, because he didn’t understand the importance of MLK at the time, kind of like he doesn’t understand economics now.
Jake
Today I plan to work and loathe people who aren’t working.
myiq2xu
Paul Krugman disses the Magic Unity Pony, to the dismay of Obamaniacs.
Gotta go with Krugman on this one.
We need to knock down the Reagan myth, not perpetuate it.
The Grand Panjandrum
Ha! That is funny. Channeling your inner Chuck Norris, eh?
myiq2xu
The Texas Ranger is 67?
Damn, he’s OLD!
Steve M
I teach at a small rural high school in Florida, and am generally seen as the ‘resident Yankee,’ though being a Boston guy, I shiver at that designation. Anyway, my first year, I couched JV baseball, and told my pitching coach that I was giving the team MLK Day off. His response? ‘We don’t recognize that day. It’s Robert E. Lee Day.’ I was, well, a bit taken aback. My response: ‘Well, they still get the day off.’
Wish I had handled it better. :/
myiq2xu
Obama has transcended baseball.
Punchy
Shorter: I wish I could show you all my Negros out picking my cotton…but…alas….
demimondian
Well, I have the best of both worlds. My office is closed today in recognition of MLK day — so I’m sitting in my office at home, working.
At least it means I get to work in my pajamas and post comments to BJuice. Of course, given that I work at Gollum, I think I could do that at the office, too.
myiq2xu
Celebrating the life of a man who thought the right to own other human beings was worth fighting for!
4tehlulz
‘We don’t recognize that day. It’s
Robert E. LeeLoser’s Day.’Fiksd
D-Chance.
Two words: Big Dig.
The Northeastern Liberal Establishment is soooo honest and efficient.
LiberalTarian
Earlier this year, just before the MLs and Citibanks started taking those huge write downs, I took all my money out of my 401(k). I’d been feeling a little like I was paranoid, and acted to hastily.
Not feeling that way so much now.
D-Chance.
I keep hearing on the sports programs how we have these noontime basketball games to day “in honor” of Dr King.
So why is the NHL also scheduling daytime games? Is there a large African-American audience for ice hockey nowadays?
Xenos
Treason in Defense of Slavery Day?
I will stick with MLK, thanks. Having lived in North Florida, tho, I am not surprised.
In any case, I hope no-one here is having a day like this day-trader who logged in this morning right after midnight to find he was not only wiped out, but that he will not even be able to unwind his S&P futures margin position until tomorrow. NSFW, unless you work for HBO. I thought the idea behind day-trading is that you liquidate your holdings by the end of the day, so things like this can’t happen over the week-end, but there you go.
demimondian
I like the image of Robert E. Lee as representing the South. Lee, after all, was very predictable tactician (Pickett’s charge, anyone?) fighting against the first modern army using antiquated strategies and century-old maneuvers, in support of a tradition as old as humanity, the right to lynch, rape, and murder other humans in the name of divine right.
Unsurprisingly, wrong on principle, process, and mechanism, he lost and was humiliated. I can’t think of a better metaphor for the whole band of traitors than Lee.
demimondian
Damn. Topped again. I hate you, Xenos.
(Having also attended high school in North Florida, by the way, I don’t find it surprising, either.)
myiq2xu
Standard wingnut response #4: Democrats do it too!
BTW – Big Dig’s contractor is Bechtel Corp, a name second only to Halliburton for it’s GOP connections (including former Sec. State George Shultz, who was its President and Director)
in canaduh
“International Market Shakeout Continues”
http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20080121/international_market_shakeout_continues
LiberalTarian
Heh. It’s all about baggage. That 20-something next to you has baggage from last night, us types have baggage from that night 20 years ago.
Hang in there. And, two words: “Office Hours.” Go over the lecture with the dude/dudette again. Unfortunately, I would have done better if I had taken my own advice more often, but the people I knew who did got much better grades. Good luck!!
demimondian
Yo, D-Chance…the big dig is a success for Boston, you know. I used to have to drive the Central Artery, and take the tunnels to Logan, including the nightmare of a detour onto the Turnpike. Guess what? The effects of the work on traffic in the city are astounding.
It’s the only reason that depressing the Alaskan Way Viaduct shouldn’t be simply thrown out as the stupidest idea on Earth. Frankly, if Seattle didn’t want the rest of us to pay for it and get nothing in return, I’d have even voted for it.
demimondian
Having taught a number of returning students, I’ll echo this sentiment. I found that although their lives were much more complicated than my twenty something’s lives, they learned the material much better, often because there were more examples from their own lives that they could tie the lessons to.
To get those examples, though, they often needed the one on one time they could get at office hours.
LiberalTarian
Less effective now though, since they’ve touched everything with their magic shit finger. We should get in the habit of reminding them that when WE fuck up that bad, we have the grace to admit it. Bastards.
Xenos
The Northeast Liberal Establishment got the project funded, although it ought to be noted that the only local politician to criticize the project was Barney Frank. Management of the project, included the GOP-connected thieving construction and engineering firms, was under the control of various Republican Governors (Weld/Celluci/Swift/Romney). It got so bad that a major republican on the supervisory board quit the Republican party and ran for Governor on a third-party ticket as he saw it as the only way to stop a catastrophe. Romney gets some credit for acting decisively once the parts started falling off the tunnel, but that is as much credit as can be given.
Thanks for playing. Next time, acquaint yourself with the facts. And turn off the Rush Limbaugh – it is harming your brain.
LiberalTarian
Limbaughtomy:
A self-inflicted condition characterized by willful ignorance, blind hatred, misplaced aggression and a high capacity for cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive therapy is the gold standard of treatment, but is rarely received due to lack of adequate funding for mental health facilities and lack of awareness within US wingnut communities at large.
wasabi gasp
The funniest couple’a years of my life are coming round the bend.
When I’m an old fart, kids’ll ask, “Hey, old timer, what was is like to live through the worst financial crisis in history? Did people really have to eat squirrels? What’s oil? Didn’t letting a monkey run the country seem silly at the time? Paper money, I don’t get it? Why didn’t people just build cabins like we do now? Can we light a candle, its getting dark in here?” Stuff like that and more.
And, I’ll have stories to tell.
Lots of funny stories.
The stories will be funny ’cause they’re true.
So, these next few years, forget the money, stockpile funny.
It’ll take a while to appreciate.
demimondian
Almost correct, wasabi gasp, but the real question will be “Were people really able to eat squirrels back then? What *was* a squirrel? Were they like salmon?”
myiq2xu
I guess John is busy playing WoW, cuz my post has been “awaiting moderation” for over an hour. Here it is, minus the links:
I linked to Krugman, Tristero, and Yglesias, which apparently is taboo.
myiq2xu
You assume that there will be any money? Something to build cabins with? Do you know how to make candles? I doubt there will be any factories, markets, etc.
I’m guessing a hunter/gatherer/scavenger society.
Kinda like Mad Max meets The Postman.
LiberalTarian
Dude, I hated Reagan. Pretty slick trick, since I was only in high school when he was first elected. Montana has always been a depressed economy, and his miserly governance made tough living during that recession worse. Let us also remember how his goons negotiated with Iran (i.e. weapons for terrorists) to hold the hostages until after the election.
And, never ever forget, before Reagan there were much better national mental health care programs. He gutted them. Reagan started the trend toward shipping manufacturing jobs overseas (gave tax breaks to companies to do it). Reagan struck the first blows in the war against organized labor. Reagan’s surrogates in South America armed death squads and turned a blind eye to human rights abuses that still scar the human landscape.
I guess Obama thought he would accomplish transcendence courting Reagan lovers. I dunno. I suspect he thinks, based on GW Bush being elected twice, that all Americans are retarded. I pray to God he does NOT win the nomination. He’s too far right of HRC, and she is far too right for my comfort already.
Ivan Renko
Naaahhh… think Blade Runner without the replicants… with a touch of Children of Men (that 8 minute street battle scene– a little of Eye-Rack come home to roost).
It is gonna SUCK LIKE FUCKING HELL… but we won’t get knocked back to hunting and gathering… and in a couple of decades, this will all be behind us.
The survivors, that is. There will be casualties.
crack
I’d just like to say that the Rodriguez situation is not playing well in MI. That is people are already re-thinking hiring a guy who can be as big an a-hole as he seems to be in his dealings with WV.
wasabi gasp
Tastier than your neighbor.
The Other Steve
Oh my fucking God. Go look up the fucking interview, you fucking moron.
Americans may not be retarded, you but you are a fucking moron.
myiq2xu
I think the sparkles are coming off of the Magic Unity Pony.
From FDL (Pachuatec):
There hasn’t been a time since the 1930’s that more clearly demonstrates the complete and utter failure of conservatism. This is what is called a “sea-change.” It is time to change the direction of American politics, away from Reagan and back to FDR.
Everything that George W. Bush has done is just an extension of the politics and policies of Ronald Reagan.
Tax cuts for the rich, “voodoo economics,” massive government debt, secrecy, imperialism, contempt for the rule of law, crony capitalism, dismantling environmental protections, “wedge” politics, deregulation, and everything else from the last 7 years all started with Reagan.
What was the primary goal of Reagan and the GOP? Dismantling the New Deal, the Great Society, and Civil Rights legislation. IOW- undoing “Liberalism.” The GOP was far too successful at reaching their goal, to the detriment of the American people. It is now clear that we need to restore what we lost.
But it’s also becoming evident that Obama either can’t or won’t make that case. If he can’t, he doesn’t really have persuasive powers and he’s therefore a fake and not the right candidate to lead our country.
If he won’t, then he’s the wrong candidate because he is really a conservative and doesn’t believe in liberal/progressive ideals.
srv
Well, Slick’s fine work is coming home to roost now. Enjoy.
zzyzx
I like that better than the stupid “surface and transit” option, but I don’t know where the money is supposed to come from.
wasabi gasp
I’ll just take yours.
myiq2xu
Real men aren’t afraid of the dark!
wasabi gasp
Real men don’t make candles.
Tom in Texas
Wait wait… Obama is selling arms to Iran? And he wants to dismantle the New Deal? What kind of Democrat is this?
Oh wait, he just said that Reagan provided a change of pace when we were in dire need of one. That seems kind of obvious, rather than controversial. It’s also an opinion HRC seems to agree with, except when she doesn’t.
If Democrats want to win this election, go after Bush. The quickest way to a loss is to attack Reagan and his history. Instead they should take a page from Barack and act like a wingnut and rewrite history. Rather than eviscerating Reagan, coopt his legacy, Sure the right will scream bloody murder, but you might be able to convince a lot of people who were fooled into voting for Ron in the first place.
And on a purely political level, how popular is Reagan in California? Is this dust up more likely to help or hurt Obama in the CA primary?
myiq2xu
I suppose you are referring to Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that repealed Glass-Steagall?
Yes, the Big Dog signed the bill into law. But what party were Gramm, Leach and Bliley from?
And why do assume that anyone who criticizes Obama is a Clintonite?
myiq2xu
That’s where the Big Dog fucked up, he didn’t attack the Reagan legacy and let the myth ride. He was “Me too, but nicer.”
We did not need a change of pace, especially the one Reagan gave us.
Tim (the other one)
“There hasn’t been a time since the 1930’s that more clearly demonstrates the complete and utter failure of conservatism. This is what is called a “sea-change.” It is time to change the direction of American politics, away from Reagan and back to FDR.”
I’m in complete agreement which is why a McCain ticket combine with an illiterate electorate scares the crap out of me. We could still blow this thing.
myiq2xu
Oops, I forgot to answer your question.
The answer is: Not very, outside of Orange County. This is a very blue state now.
It might have something to do with the fact that we got to experience Reagan years before everyone else.
LiberalTarian
Heh. Made you sputter. Bwahahaha. I find the best way to bring someone around to your opinion is to call them stupid. Better yet, scream at them that they are a moron.
I suddenly see the beauty of trolling.
Regardless, I am a lifelong Democrat because I believe in the tenets of the party. BHO can see past Reagan’s actual works? Goody for him. I cannot.
This is what I understand BHO said, please, correct me if this is a misapprehension:
Am I wrong in assuming that he *intended* to be quoted?
Would you provide a link for the original interview? I would be interested in the original context, but invoking St. Reagan is a turd in the punchbowl.
I guess some people thought change for the sake of change was good, no matter what. Maybe the country was just bored when Reagan took office? He made them feel good about themselves, not like that scoldy old Carter. Just because Reagan slept through cabinet meetings and his folks developed the notion of “plausible deniability” and all that stuff, that didn’t make him a bad leader. But, the man could talk up a storm, eh? Things changed while he was president. We threw off all the stupid chains of conventional wisdom.
If you don’t care what the new norm changed to, you’re golden.
Heh. Thanks again for the chuckle.
The Other Steve
Time to change your user id to myiqis40
myiq2xu
A week or so back people were talking about a post in the Onion regarding Carter, and the general thrust of the commentary was that Jimmy was right all along.
Reagan’s gift was that he was able to put a smiling face on greed and racism.
The Other Steve
This is a fine example of what is wrong with American politics. It’s like saying “Since John Edwards loves children, then clearly Hillary and Obama hate children because they are running against him for the nomination.”
I’m sure it makes sense in your little head, but the rest of us are looking at this and trying to figure out if you are as fucking dumb as George Bush.
srv
Why do you assume D-Chance is an Obama fan?
J. Michael Neal
Today I plan to work and loathe people who aren’t working.
After being out of work for 30 months, I’d be happy to trade.
The Other Steve
I have to agree with Tom in Texas. I am utterly amazed at how many people don’t understand why Carter and Mondale got their asses whooped by Reagan.
If you can’t understand that, how the fuck do you expect to win an election?
myiq2xu
Wow! I am completely devasted by your logical and cogent rebuttal.
Why not just say something about my mother?
The Other Steve
Go ahead. Unlike you I’m not afraid of arguing facts.
myiq2xu
I never said that, but going back to my original post that D-chance was responding to, I see I should have said:
“Why do you assume every critic of the Bush Administration is a Clintonite?”
myiq2xu
Well? Do you have any?
cd6
I love the viaduct. Heading into the city in the evenings it’s way way faster than I-5, which grinds down to two lanes at the Seneca exit.
Plus, what a view!
The tunnel would be a far bigger waste of money and the “surface streets” option is laughably stupid for a city with such horrendous traffic problems already.
Totally unrelated, speaking of treason in defense of slavery, guess who’s got another Scott Beauchamp post up?
myiq2xu
WTF?
Don’t blog drunk.
LiberalTarian
Heh.
Translation: I got nuthin’. You’re stupid.
Zifnab
Ditto that. Reagan played “Morning in America” and rode the wave to victory. Obama is playing the same card – even going so far as to link himself to Reagan as a sweeping-appeal-across-the-nation candidate – and you’re getting all up in his face.
I think the real issue here is that some of you are horrified that Obama is just Conservative-Lite. So mentioning Reagen brings those fears home.
Tom in Texas
Here’s the Obama quote on this that struck me:
Yes, I am aware that is not the original interview. Anyone that heard “I agree with Reagan’s policies” from the quote given upthread is predisposed against Obama already.
myiq2xu
I understand very well. It’s called “bullshit”
DISCLAIMER: I was a Reagan voter in 1980 and 1984. I realize now how badly I was deceived.
That’s why I want our candidates to quit perpetuating the Reagan myth. We need to expose him as the fraud he was.
The American people aren’t stupid, we have the facts, all we need to do is make the case.
Punchy
CAT FIGHT!
myiq2xu
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner!
John S.
If it wasn’t for Reagan, we’d all be speaking Russian by now!
Bob In Pacifica
Who was Obama talking to when he did the “wowie Reagan” speech? Because yesterday he did better at the Ebenezer Baptist Church.
As I recall, the Big Dig was done by Bechtel.
It’s raining out here on the Coast. Overcast and dreary. I was going to go down on the beach and see if that big dead thing (about the size of an elephant seal but unrecognizable) that’s been there since Thanksgiving has finally rotted or been washed out to sea, but the rain makes the hike too crappy.
myiq2xu
What I heard was Obama perpetuating the myth that Reagan was a necessary correction because of liberal excesses in the 60’s and 70’s.
That’s the perception, but it’s bullshit.
Krista
I gave a presentation today to two fourth-grade classes and two-fifth grade classes about peace, and how we all have the freedom to choose to be kind human beings who stand up for what is right, like MLK did.
I’m in ur skoolz, influencing ur kidz.
They also got to see Joseph Rotblat’s Nobel Peace Prize medallion, which they thought was pretty nifty.
myiq2xu
“Red Dawn” was not a documentary.
TheFountainHead
Because I’m a Masochist I took the time to read through al these comments during my lunch break. Basically it boils down to two camps in the sandbox. Those of you can’t do anything but hate hate hate the Republican party and everything they’ve done, and those who think Republicans are Americans too and they can’t all be as crazy as the ones we’ve had in power. While I don’t blame the piss and vinegar crowd, I think the move on crowd will be better for the country in the long run. And yeah, if you think Obama was saying, “Reagan was teh awesome.” you need to go back to 5th grade for some reading comprehension lessons. It’s like accusing a general of being a Nazi sympathizer because he said, “The Blitzkrieg on Poland worked remarkably well and the German Panzers were unmatched in open field combat.”
LiberalTarian
You get a gold star.
Perfectly reasonable. Relatively achievable, but maybe OHB could court them from the disenchanted-with-GWB pool directly. I would expect Republicans to want to channel Reagan, since he is a Republican hero.
However, it doesn’t seem particularly reasonable to expect Democrats who are still weighing their options to just disregard what OHB has to say while he courts disaffected Republicans.
My first choice will never get the nomination. I want good reasons to vote one way or the other. It is a mistake to think that if some general Democrat was talking up Reagan I would be fine with that. BHO may well have good reasons for saying it, but last time I checked, he was also courting my vote. I am not vindictive–if he has the best game in town, I’ll vote for him.
One of the principal arguments people are bringing up against HRC is that the almighty Republican machine will overwhelm the vote. Really? Would Democrats be so vindictive about HRC that they would do anything, including not vote, to make sure she doesn’t get elected? So far, Democrats have been getting out the vote. Even if McCain is the Republican nominee, I am not convinced that Democrats are so spiteful they would rather have another Republican administration, and possibly give Congress back to the GOP, than see her in office.
Rudi
At NRO Derbyshire spits out the Koolaid again on the surge going nowhere.
LiberalTarian
It’s like accusing a general of being a Nazi sympathizer because he said, “The Blitzkrieg on Poland worked remarkably well and the German Panzers were unmatched in open field combat.”
myiq2xu
You’re misstating the argument.
My complaint isn’t with the GOP members, it’s with the crazy ones we’ve had in power.
But you seem to have the idea that pointing out how the elected GOP leaders have mismanaged our country and lied to everybody is an attack on the GOP in general.
How do we fix our problems if we don’t confront them? And in order to confront them, we must understand how we got in this mess.
So how did we get in this mess? It all started with Reagan!
Dennis - SGMM
Obama, Hillary, it won’t make a damned bit of difference if the Dems fail to achieve effective majorities in both houses of Congress. Absent those majorities, and effective leadership for them, we will be electing President Punching Bag and setting it up for a Republican President in 2012.
Tom in Texas
The minute Dick Cheney gets a post in Obama’s cabinet is the minute I worry about his Democratic Party creds.
Zifnab
Not false at all. Obama, like any good leader, has chosen to observe and model himself after previously successful leaders. Generic General has chosen to observe and – presumably – model his military strategy around previously successful military strategies.
Obama got up and said that Reagen was a masterful public speaker and really knew how to coalesce the country around his agenda. This is nothing more than an observation laced with opinion that few dispute. He then goes on to basically say he wants lots of people to vote for him. *gasp* A Presidential candidate that wants lots of people to vote for him. The horror.
Whatever “myth” you fear getting perpetuated, Reagen’s dominance of American politics between ’80 and ’88 is undeniable. He became the standard bearer of the movement and the definition of good conservativeness. Can you honestly blame Obama for trying to craft himself as a similar idol of the Democratic Party? On the eve of a political realignment, this seems like exactly the right sort of rhetoric to field.
TheFountainHead
I’m sick today, but I feel like I can sink my teeth into this.
First of all, the surge of Democratic voters has been widely attributed (correctly, I think) to Obama’s “One Big Umbrella” campaign style. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I think the vast majority of first time voters in Iowa and New Hampshire went out for Obama. I think Nevada will prove to have done the same, especially considering how well Obama did outside of Las Vegas, typically poor ground for Democrats. So if Hillary is the nominee, I’m not convinced will see the same awesome numbers in the general. Second, I won’t say all Democrats are that vindictive, but independent voters might be that swayable. Hillary shas long had very high disapproval and unlikeability ratings. You don’t get those numbers that high without the well of Independents being poisoned as well, compound that with a possible McCain nomination and suddenly things get flimsy for the Democrats. Third, and I think this is the most important to me personally, while you might be able to make the argument that Hillary is left of Obama (though on what, I’m not really sure) I don’t think anyone sees her laying down the powers that GWB grabbed for the Executive office and restoring the constitution. If her history indicates anything she’ll say, “Use it against them, signing statements and all.” Yeah, she might reign in the craziness a bit, but who wouldn’t? The biggest pivot point for me between Obama and Hillary is that fact that the man was a Constitutional law professor and I’ve never heard him say anything that scares me regarding his take on the constitution. Hillary’s whole campaign screams “By any Means Necessary” to me, and that’s what got us here in the first place. More left isn’t better if the means don’t justify the end.
myiq2xu
Yes!
It is more like questioning why someone would say “Hitler certainly pursued an aggressive foreign policy and his handling of ethnic and religious minorities was breathtaking in it’s simplicity.”
Zifnab
Sorry, but if you want to get technical, the excrement really impacted the air circulator back in ’64.
Cheers to that. We need powerful progressive politicians to get our troops out of Iraq, get our economy out of the crapper, and get back on the bridge to the 21st century. Keep in mind that come ’08 we’ll still have Joe Lieberman and Dianne Feinstein and Harry Reid to deal with. These guys aren’t much better than your McCains and your Specters and your Grahams – in some ways their worse. A Democratic President doesn’t guarantee a progressive agenda even if Kucinich were to take the White House.
All the White House victories in the world won’t get us quality energy reform or a respectable health care system. A filibusterized legislative branch that can be indefinitely knee-capped by obstructionist GOoPers doesn’t do us any good at the national level.
myiq2xu
How does it read now?
Tom in Texas
myiq:
Did you vote for Hitler twice? Think of Obama’s audience.
TheFountainHead
While I utterly disagree that this is anything at all like what Obama said about Reagan, even at that, does a person making this valid albeit a bit obtuse observation necessarily think this was a good thing??
More to the point, Obama was not describing Reagan’s policies or his time in office, but merely suggesting that Reagan’s huge success was a derivative of an electorate that badly desired change and saw that in Reagan, for better or worse.
LiberalTarian
Once upon a time I considered voting for McCain, for all the reasons the right seems to hate him. But, just like HRC, when the chips were down he didn’t really buck GW Bush.
Although it really is neither here nor there at this point, BHO was originally my second choice. Clearly, I’ve been worried about it. I am not sure which way I will swing. If the HRC electibility thing becomes terribly important–genuinely, not just as a OHB talking point, borne out by numbers in the Republican field … I’ll have to think long and hard about it.
I still think the WWII analogy is off.
I don’t know that the GOPs current trajectory started with Reagan. There is a lot of inertia in the system, and players like Cheney and Rumsfeld were in government before Reagan ascended.
Zifnab
Like Reagen killed a whole lot of Jews.
Seriously, Godwin much?
myiq2xu
So you think Chimpy & Cheney had nothing to do with it?
myiq2xu
If he wants to be the nominee his audience should be Democrats.
Tom in Texas
I wasn’t aware the only way to cater to Democrats was by comparing Reagan to Hitler.
demimondian
Fooey. You know what? Obama’s transendance of the historical Reagan record is no more invalid that Clinton’s effective discussion of the role LBJ played in this nation’s first steps towards implementation of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution. Both of them are, technically, absolutely correct: Reagan, however despicable, was a trasformative president, and LBJ really did spend a lot of party political capital on the Civil Rights Act of ’64 and the Voting Rights Act of ’65. Reagan did change the world, and LBJ played a critical role in the civil rights struggle.
Neither of those two facts takes away from the fact that Reagan was a force for evil in our country, and that Martin Luther King, preacher, prophet, and eventual martyr, deserves his place a saint in our secular pantheon, where he stands alone, without LBJ at his side.
Can we stop posturing about this now?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
LiberalTarian, if that’s your real name,
I think you’re missing the reasonable strategy behind it. If looking for numbers that Hillary can’t take away from you, you tip your hat rightwards, and you have to honor the cult figures.
Who’s the #1 cult figure?
The profit of kissing the feet of the Prophet should (but apparently didn’t) outweigh the cost of looking like you’re serious that Reagan was a good preznit. Of course he wasn’t. Any intelligent person on the right knows he did a dumptruck’s worth of shady shit.
Obama isn’t right of Hillary. The country is right of both of them, and ‘bama is just going to where the water is.
It makes sense you’d want a guy to hold up the platform and fight for it, but your guys that are in Congress now even refused to do that, so how are either Hill or Obama supposed to pull that off? Your platform slipped right-ward because nobody manned the turrets. And neither Hill nor Obama are omnipotent.
Zifnab
Uh… no. If he wants to be the nominee, his audience should be the voters. His policy should be with the Democrats (and even that is a little sketchy, as Democratic Policy consists of bending over and taking it).
I have absolutely no problem with Obama selling a Democratic Agenda to Republican Voters. If Obama wants to pitch health care under the mantle of Ronald Reagen, I say he should fucking go for it. “The Gipper would want to see every American protected from Alzheimer’s! Healthy citizens can best pull themselves up by their own bootstraps! Smaller insurance premiums are the tax cuts America really wants!”
TheFountainHead
Of course they do, I’m merely pointing out that Obama was chosen by those new voters as the path to change as opposed to Hillary, and I’m not sure they’ll come out for Hillary after being disappointed because the establishment candidate won the nomination.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Assuming he can’t get independents to register Dem, sure.
Considering the rather uncool tactics Hillary is rolling out, it might be more efficient to culture the fresh meat, instead of going for the default people.
Besides, more the merrier, remember? Ideals mean nothing to the country if you’re not winning.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
QFT
myiq2xu
I used Hitler for contrast because nobody (except maybe Ron Paul & Co.) would consider Hitler a role model.
But Hitler certainly had great rhetorical and motivational skills, and people did support him at one time. He also let his country into disaster.
If someone was running for office saying “I want to be like Hitler, but in a good way” we would laugh at him.
Ronald Reagan was not Hitler, but he wasn’t FDR either. Let the GOP deify him. Democrats need to expose and discredit him.
The best way to do that is to connect him to G-Dub, because their policies are identical.
LiberalTarian
I get that. My bloviating gets tiresome, even to me. I didn’t post that particular bit of discussion. I appreciate you bringing it to the table though.
S’alight, you can call me LibbyT. ;)
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Fixident and Forget It.
Now you Godwinned the thread, you Feminazi Jew Muslim.
myiq2xu
Democratic voters. He hasn’t won the nomination yet.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
My big hope is that we realize what the Prez race looks like: Obama vs. Hillary. Obama’s got the spirit, the message, but not the willingness to talk policy on the stump,
and Hillary might be a good president, but we can’t freaking tell, and she won’t prove it to us. The frosting on that cake is her campaigning tactics being two notches north of Rove.
And right now, I don’t care if they’re right or left. We can’t even get torture back in the bag. If we can’t that fixed, our economic policy isn’t going matter because nobody (of decent economy) will want to do business with us.
REALLY NOW: This is a critical election. Bush screwed us on left vs. right.
Choice time: New face, or old (but somewhat different) face?
TheFountainHead
Did I win something? Is there a prize?? I love prizes!!
myiq2xu
I’m getting sick of this meme that we need to vote for Obama because he is more electable than HRC and/or has better coattails.
Now he sounds like a whiny bitch complaining that the Big Dog is lying about him.
If he can’t handle this then the GOP will eat his lunch next November.
“Politics ain’t beanbag” – Molly Ivins
TheFountainHead
Actually, he sounds like a guy setting the record straight, since the Big Dog IS lying about him…at least that’s how it sounds where I come from.
Punchy
Fixed for Canadian spelling, natch.
myiq2xu
When did Canadian become a language?
myiq2xu
Look at 1932 – Did FDR run as “Hoover-lite?” Did he talk about Coolidge’s rhetorical skills?
Fuck no!
LiberalTarian
Caidence:
Jane Hamsher talked about criticizing the candidates the other day. Her argument was that criticizing them is how we express our needs to them, and, if they want us to follow them, they have to incorporate our needs into their leadership.
GW Bush, et al., landed the country (and the world?) in a pile of shit because he refused to accept any criticism. From anyone.
If we want to avoid that in the future, it means DO NOT STFU, DO NOT elect bubble people.
Democracy is a knock-down, drag-out game when it is done right. I don’t expect to throw in the towel 1/9/2009 because a vital part of our system of government is feedback from the public. But, uninformed feedback, a la the Limbot crowd, can’t be the model. Turning a blind eye to a candidate’s flaws perpetuates those flaws. They must be called out, without malice. This is a participatory democracy, not a football game where we are spectators.
HRC and OHB will have to be quick on their feet. They are both sitting senators. If the loser really cares about this country, the loser will take what he/she learned back to the Senate and put it to work. For either, losing the nomination is not a waste of time and energy, it is an exercise in governance.
Man, I have papers to grade. Ciao.
Dracula
John, I’m happy to report that as of now, you still don’t have a Wikipedia page.
Get on this. Have Mom throw some baby pics up there. Be proud of your BJ. Represent.
myiq2xu
I remember back early in 1999 when G-Dub came to town for a fundraiser and the local news covered how enthusiastically he was greeted. I started looking for info on him and what I discovered was that to the GOP he was like the negative image of Bill Clinton.
They hated Bill before he was even sworn in. They loved G-Dub even though they didn’t really know his history or his politics. They hated Bill for smoking pot and dodging the draft. They loved G-Dub even though he used coke and dodged the draft.
I remember an editorial cartoon of an empty suit walking along a parade route, with some kids saying “The clothes have no emperor!” Guess who it was about?
The country is to the left of both of them.
Enough of this Broderism. The middle of the road is where you get run over.
Carnacki
I heard Gov. Joe Manchin give an MLK speech on Saturday at an event in Charleston. You can say what you will about the man, he is a charismatic and can really move people. He also was incredibly generous with his time. I’ve been to many events with pols and seen them come in, make a speech and head out to the next event as quickly as possible. Manchin stayed throughout the event, posed with everyone who wanted their photo with him or to have a word with him, gave each person his full attention and really worked to make each person feel special.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I’m spending my MLK day watching my cable go intermittent on/off, so it keeps eating my responses (2, so far), so this is
Lightning Round Response Time:
myiq2xu, I agree with your perspective on FDR’s election post-Hoover, but do not believe conditions in this election are sufficiently the same.
LiberalTarian, I like that Hamsher argument, and will have to spend time mulling over that. I guess the thing to do is look for campaigns that let in the most amount of challenges to their positions. Bye bye Romney.
myiq2xu
Damn – I was watching CNN and there was an ad showing Yosemite Valley while a voice was talking about “Doing the right thing.”
The voice sounded like the Magic Unity Pony and I thought it was a campaign ad. The vague platitudes sounded just like His Transcendentness too.
It turned out to be an ad for some investment outfit.
myiq2xu
You’re right, they’re not.
Yet
By 1932 the country had been suffering for three years. We’re barely starting to see the effects of Reagan-Bush.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I would love to know where you get this from. Difficulty: Thinking the Iraq war is a fuck-up and torture is un-American does not make you left-wing. It makes you an eukaryote.
myiq2xu
I get this from surveys that show that most Americans favor a fairly liberal agenda when it is presented in a way that is disassociated from the “liberal” label.
The Other Steve
He also didn’t run on a platform of “Look, we really can’t change anything, so just give up now.”
Krista
Sometimes I would swear that you and Pooh are the same person…
The Other Steve
Nobody has a problem with valid criticism.
I resent your moronic illogical politics of putrification. You’re as bad as the Republicans in attacking fellow Democrats.
demimondian
Welcome to BJuice, myiq. Here, we try to be respectful to the residents of the 51st state.
myiq2xu
EGG-zactly
myiq2xu
Take off, you hoser!
demimondian
So I was walking down the street yesterday, eh?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Saying Bill is miscategorizing something you said previously is Right Wing talking point
I don’t necessarily blame Hill for this… it might not come from her, but when I hear these guys, it’s like listening to That Guy at your friends party go off about how he’s like, a VP at his company (sort of) and basically, yeah, you know, like, my boss (the Cee Eee Oh) has to listen to me… and he um, takes me seriously, you know… Oh yeah, and when I get a promotion, it’ll be a company car, and they’re always Lamborghinis.
… and you just wanna tap that dude on the shoulder and ask him “Where are you mentally, right now, and how do you think I’m going to respond to this?”
incontrolados
Watch it Kista — unless you want a stalker like Jen saying Hi! to you all the time.
I spent the day cleaning and expanding play space in puppy-room (new pictures — with collars!) and listening to wingnut radio. Only thing I learned was that Sean Hannity associates with an organization that gave a lifetime membership to Idi Amin. (I guess it doesn’t matter, since /Amin is dead now . . .)
ImJohnGalt
I have no problem with Obama invoking Reagan, if he then uses it to sell progressive policy. So far I hear a lot of the latter, and not much of the former. I don’t give a shit if it’s “on his website”. If he wants a progressive mandate, he can’t pull any of the silly shit Dubya pulled and claim it based on a few paragraphs on his website that he never talked about on the stump.
I want a progressive nominee, and I don’t want to have to cross my fingers and hope that his appeals to the right and ignoring of the left are only a strategy to get elected, after which he’ll jump in the phonebooth and turn into progressive man.
Some guy named Matt
Conservative black leaders endorse Huckabee
So what’s that like 3 votes?
myiq2xu
Jen is a stalker?
I only ask cuz I need a new one, the old one violated parole and will be gone for a while.
LiberalTarian
Y’all can have The Other Steve. All stalker-y all the time.
incontrolados
How often does s/he say Hi! to you?
I thought so.
LiberalTarian
OHB can’t really court the right by promising them the moon and then govern from the left, not if he wants a second term. And you know he does. Making promises to the right from the left means that in 2012 it’ll be time to pay the fiddler. If he didn’t dance with the ones who brung him, they’ll kick his ass out. Plus, considering the markets in free-fall all over the world today, he’ll need to have his governing theory on disaster recovery in place and getting results within the first year.
Lots to worry about this election.
incontrolados
No doubts with Edwards. Now you might worry, but no doubts.
I’m an Edwards supporter and he didn’t have to say much wrt Obama’s Reagan moment. I spent time in a former soviet republic (a year and a half in Riga) and not one Russian, Latvian, or ‘other’ ever credited Reagan. Not a one. Reagan out-spent the Soviets. Reagan increased the debt. It’s even worse now. I could go on.
And the Contract on America? Wingnut radio is living off the fumes of that now. Rush is all about Rush and can’t say anything new, Hannity thinks he’s cool because he MC’s a dinner put on by an African-American group that gave Idi Amin a lifetime membership, and please, oh please could this crap between the Obamas and Clintons STOP NOW? More real issues please.
Krista
I don’t even know from where that came. Never in my life have I heard anybody utter that phrase except in jest, and in a clear reference to Bob & Doug MacKenzie.
And I doubt that either Punchy or Pooh would bother stalking me. I think if they were going to, they would have by now. :)
incontrolados
Maybe they are stalking you and are very sneaky, laying a long term plot to
say Hi!
Krista
Nooooooooooo! The horror! Anything but that!
Anne Laurie
I was an *Anderson* voter in 1980, which if nothing else sure inoculated me against Naderism twenty years later, because if John A couldn’t spark a viable third party in a contest between “Jimmy Malaise” and “Stewart for President, Reagan for Best Friend” — as they were being presented at the time — then America, or at least the Conventional Media, just can’t handle any choice more complicated than a coin flip.
Which, tragically, seems to be what’s punishing Edwards this time; Teh Black Dude versus Teh Wommyn is so narrative-friendly that nobody from Media Village wants to discuss boring nonphotogenic shite like “issues” and “plans”. And the Repubs can’t even get that organized, bless their stained and shrunken hearts.
On the other hand, if tomorrow Wall Street has anywhere near the Black Tuesday we’re being warned about, promising a new WPA is going to look even *more* prescient, and I hope either Magical Unity Pony or Her Royal Nutcrusherness has the good sense to sidle over towards Edwards and start talking deals.
demimondian
Hi, Krista!
incontrolados
Krista, sorry, you left off the ‘es’.
You shall not pass.
(In BJ fem love world that would get me points, but since it’s been done to death by Jen . . . I only have puppy pics — with collars. Maybe Dreggas will understand.)
Krista
Hi Demi!
Oh wait — does that mean we’re now stalking each other?
And incontrolados: I left off the “es”? Off of what?
incontrolados
LOLcats — noes. No matter how long the no.
I thought you knew that.
Maybe you are not with the program and deserve what you get.
and demi says I can be called inc. And I will know it. It’s ok. Less typing.
You all can stalk each other all you like. If Jen would get off me that would be cool.
demimondian
Hey — if I’m demi (and I have been for as long as I’ve been here), you’re inc. It’s just the way things work.
demi “and, besides, it means you can put stuff in the middle” mondian
demimondian
The middlest of the demi-offspring just had one of those scary conversations with me, starting with “what’s a monoline insurance company?” and getting worse from there.
Have I mentioned that I have really smart kids, of whom I’m excessively proud? Now, back to you regularly scheduled snark.
Punchy
/crumples up 2.3 year-old blueprints, plans clearly foiled
incontrolados
Punchy, there is always another day.
demimondian
Hi, Punchy!
incontrolados
see?
Punchy
High, Demi?
Punchy
Hey, peeps…sorry to go all negative on your arses…but this is some scary ass shit:
Holeeeeeeey crap.
Krista
Oh yes. I’m still a novice in the LOLcat-speak.
incontrolados
Like i said, I’ve been listening to wing nut radio all day.
Any way you slice it — the argument is about race; it will always be that.
Good job Hills and Barack.
Fuck this.
Krista
Yep — and everybody’s selling, of course.
LiberalTarian
Criminee. That’s some scary shit alright.
Systemic failure. Reformat?
Chuck Butcher
This is the money part of the Obama Reagan moment, what excesses? Anti-vietnam war? Civil rights? on and on?
Fine, you like that anyhow, how about what Democratic partisanship is he going to fix? The Democrats need to lay down some more?? Sure, I’ll vote Democratic in the General, but the leading candidates are pathetic examples of what the Democratic Party could do with this election.
Oh and don’t worry about the BOR with the leaders, they have exactly as much respect for it as GWB, they simply use “security” to attack a different part of it. There is exactly no difference between using fear of terrorists to attack the 4th and using fear of criminals and guns to attack the 2nd. (other than diction)
The Other Steve
Nixon impeachment?
I mean come on people. Are you seriously going to claim that the 60’s and 70’s where not filled with a signifigant amount of “Holy shit, what the fuck is going on” moments?
It’s difficult for me to take many of you people seriously, you’re willing to just sit around whining and sniffling instead of understanding.
The Other Steve
I’m going to let you in on a little secret.
The difference between the left and the right in this country in terms of electoral votes… is entirely rhetorical.
It’s not based on policy differences, and never has been.
Peter Johnson
Much of this is a reaction to the increasingly likely possibility that some form of liberal — be it McRINO or Hillary Hussein Edwards — will be in the White House, destroying what is left of the Bush boom, come January 2009.
wasabi gasp
I’m excited about tomorrow. Kind’a like a kid waiting for Christmas morning…in backwards bizarro world. You wake up and have less stuff.
incontrolados
Dr. Laura says she blogs.
John, you are just like Dr. Laura.
YaY!
myiq2xu
Sure, but was liberalism to blame for all of them? You can blame Johnson for Vietnam, but it was liberals who opposed it too.
Liberals didn’t kill JFK, MLK, or RFK. They didn’t try to plant bugs at the DNC headquarters inside the Watergate Hotel. They didn’t embargo oil. They didn’t overstate the threat posed by the Soviet Union.
They might be to blame for disco though.
Peter Johnson
You’ve got it backwards. It’s to LBJ’s credit that he stood up to communism. It may be the only good thing he did And it’s certainly not to the liberals’ credit that they sabotaged the war efforts with their opposition.
MJ
I didn’t do much today but Bill Clinton had a dream.
myiq2xu
I didn’t think the John Birch Society was still around.
MJ
JFK and LBJ did bug MLK.
myiq2xu
I nominate this for WTF POTD
wasabi gasp
Asia is tanking. And India, Holy Cow, I wouldn’t wanna be a squirrel in India.
wasabi gasp
I just realized that if someone read my last post without reading my earlier post, the squirrel bit probably makes no sense. So, in short: Indians like to fuck squirrels.
Zuzu
True.
Well you know what they say about the Reagan administration. It might not have been well done, but it got Brown on both sides.
myiq2xu
The first time I voted for a Democrat it was a Brown – Kathleen Brown, to be exact.
She lost.
Zuzu
I remember that well.
Zuzu
Plenty of Californians – including me – still refer to Pat Brown as “the last REAL Governor.”
myiq2xu
Would that make his son the last “surreal” governor?
I’m still pissed about how Enron gamed us on electricity and then the GOP used it to recall Gray Davis.
Served him right though, acting like a DINO once he was elected. The GOP sure showed their gratitude.
He was an example of why Democrats should ignore Broder. If you alienate the base to appeal to the “middle” you won’t have any friends if you get in trouble.
Conservatively Liberal
Holy crap! The foreign markets are taking some huge hits. India’s Sensitive Index halted trading for an hour shortly after after opening when it dropped more than 10%. Hang Seng down more than 8%. Japan’s market down 18% for the year so far.
People at Kos are blaming Bush for the fiasco. More like Bush, his party and the Democratic party. Everyone who enabled this mess is to blame, Bush is the moron who has his face plastered all over it.
Get lots of popcorn ready for today, it is going to be an interesting day in the markets.
Jay
WTF??? You’re implying Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan were all conservatives. What an Idiot!!
Conservatively Liberal
75 basis point cut at the fed this am. Be sure to get in line so you can get your request for a pony in! They will be delivered via helicopter, so make sure you have a place cleared for them land.
European markets have stabilized, but for how long? What a mess.
myiq2xu
Yes you are
Zuzu
Davis was a competent guy, but gave off weenie vibes big time. He didn’t do anything that he didn’t perceive as consolidating his position…true for most politicos, but when you get to the point of refusing to approve prison board parole recommendations because you don’t want to look soft on crime, you’re entering creepazoid territory.
I do give Arnold credit for spending his political capital on doing the right thing in that regard.
Otherwise, Davis may be getting the last laugh now that Arnold has to face the music of the structural deficit.
Jay
Your come back is as lame as your rhetoric.