Have at it.
Reader Interactions
177Comments
Comments are closed.
Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.
The words do not have to be perfect.
if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.
After roe, women are no longer free.
They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.
Damn right I heard that as a threat.
My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.
That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.
No Justins, No Peace
Nothing worth doing is easy.
Accountability, motherfuckers.
A consequence of cucumbers
New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.
I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.
Usually wrong but never in doubt
Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.
I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.
The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.
Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.
A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.
Bark louder, little dog.
Dennis - SGMM
By the time I’d posted this, the thread was four down so I’ll post it again:
Al Giordano, who blogs at The Field , and who predicted both the Kerry and Kennedy endorsements, is now saying that Al Gore will endorse Obama. He writes that, if Obama does well in today’s primaries, Gore will likely endorse Obama February 12th. It’s a good post as is the post to which Giordano links. Needless to say, Hillary is not amused.
Bob In Pacifica
Yeah, but Mayor Gavin Newsom is supporting Clinton.
The Other Steve
Hillary Clinton has a new plan to solve unemployment.
She’s going to mandate that everybody go out and get a job.
dAVE
Oh, she’s running as a republican?
Dennis - SGMM
She’s a Nixon-era Republican running as a Democrat.
cleek
true. but that’s at least better than a Bush-era Republican
The Other Steve
Hillary has a new plan to solve homelessness.
She’s going to mandate that everybody buy a house.
The Other Steve
Wait until the Bush-era Republicans run as Democrats in 30 years. Then you’ll be sorry!
Jen
So, how big of a dork am I if I confess that, assuming there are returns coming late into the night and nothing is decisive, that I will not be able to go to bed? People at work will think I’m an alcoholic, which is probably more socially acceptable than the real answer.
Dennis - SGMM
And if you can’t afford a house she’ll order Jimmy Carter to build one for you.
TheFountainHead
Raining very hard in Northern Jersey and Manhattan today. Can’t decide whether that’s good for Obama or not. On the one hand, it’s bad because it dampens (yeah, I did it) voter turnout across the board. On the other hand, the Pony People are way more likely to be die hard than the Clinton people, especially since her campaigns here have been pretty tepid. Driving around Bergen county you see Obama signs, but not one Hillary sign. Like I said, I can’t decide who the rain helps. I’m going to call my Obama campaign guy in a few hours, tell him to stop to breathe for a second, and then ask him what he thinks…
Jen
Well, for the SC primary the Republicans were crying “it’s cold and we might slip and fall on some black ice” to explain their low turnout…as if the Democrats got different weather…so if that trend holds true I think it favors the more enthusiastic.
Stooleo
So at what point do the Republicans wake up and start calling out the Bush administration for banishing the party to the wilderness for the next 20 years. Some have already started. Will it be before the general, after seeing the turnout numbers, or after the general when McCain loses 49 states, except AZ in the most crushing defeat since Mondale.
Jen
I’m going to guess that they blame McCain (“Not a Real Conservative”) for that.
They’re not, um, smart.
Bob In Pacifica
New Jersey Governor Corzine’s voting location was shut down for awhile this a.m. because the voting machines didn’t work and they had no paper backup votes.
myiq2xu
Some days, John starts one thread all day starting around 10 am eastern.
Other days, He starts 4 related threads in the space of 20 minutes.
On Sunday we had John and Mike simultaneously starting parallel threads on the Superbowl twice.
myiq2xu
I understand that Doughy Pantload’s next book will describe how Nixon was really a librul Democrat.
jnfr
I’m staying home from the Colorado caucuses. I honestly don’t care which Dem gets the nod now that Edwards is out; I’d be happy to vote for either.
I wish Obama’s followers didn’t seem like such a cult, and I wish the criticism of Hillary didn’t feel so much like personal hatred. But campaign dynamics aside, either of our candidates will give us a solid liberal government, and heaven knows we need that at this point.
Jen
Okay, I tried to figure this out four years ago and never got a good answer.
We do a lot of things real stupid in NC. But we have these paper ballots with the person’s name on it, and next to it a little broken arrow kind of like this:
dslak
I hope you’re right, Jen, as that will simply consign the GOP to wingnuts and speed along their banishment from national politics outside of the South.
Jen
Ack. It deleted the rest of my post. What does this website have against arrows, and speaking truth to power, huh??
dslak
Same in Oklahoma. I would blame it on education standards, but North Carolina ranks far higher than Oklahoma in those.
srv
I predict a conservative candidate will win today.
Jen
Shorter post I was trying to make: you just have to connect a little arrow by drawing a line next to the person’s name. They go into a scantron-type machine which tallies them. If the machine breaks, if you’re comfortable with it, they could probably lock your paper ballot into a box or something.
I’ve never heard of any problems with these machines, although undoubtedly there have been. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard of touch screen voting problems. Why do we keep getting those things and getting buyer’s remorse?
Con Mhac
I predict that Mike Gravel will win 450 delegates today.
myiq2xu
A cult of personality combined with the politics of personal destruction.
Isn’t that how we got Chimpy?
LarryB
The local paper (S.F. Chronicle) ran a story today saying that Newsom is still pissed that Obama wouldn’t take a picture with him four years ago during the gay marriage flap. Payback is a stone bitch.
myiq2xu
From Ben Tripp:
Is it just me, or does that last sentence seem to be a Freudian slip?
Scotty
And this is the basis for his endorsement?
TheFountainHead
/sigh
Are we going to do this today?
I don’t really feel like feeding the trolls this morning, other than to say that you’re utterly over-generalizing the electorate and missing the point entirely. Chimpy’s campaign was based on a strategy of voter’s being misinformed, ignorant, and apathetic. Obama’s campaign has been about educating and moving voters to become involved in the political process. His GOTV organization has been already, and I think will be hailed as the largest and most complete in the history of American elections. Comparing Obama to George W. Bush is not only laughable on it’s face, but just bad trolling at that.
dslak
Obama is popular with a lot of people. Hitler was popular with a lot of people. Therefore, Obama = Hitler. It worked for Doughy Pantload!
4tehlulz
You just spoylerd Jonah’s next book. Asshole.
Jen
, Dreams From A Liberal Fascist Concentration Camp, Formerly Known As America
myiq2xu
Name calling is not a cogent argument.
Bush was elected based on his personal likeability (the “have a beer with” thing) and by destroying the reputation of Al Gore.
LarryB
That was the inference in the article, yes. On the other hand, that’s also the Chron, which isn’t the mayor’s biggest fan :).
Jen
It’s well, well beneath you.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Yes, myiq, because Obama supporters are the ones that loudly demanded HRC remind the world he did coke in his younger years.
All the while, Obama was evilly lambasting her for being “misleading” when she was being … misleading?
You’re not trying anymore, are you?
myiq2xu
Okay, I admit St. Fucking Obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I can’t wait to see the Magical Unity Pony bury the GOP noise machine in pony shit.
George W. Bush was elected because people fell in love with his wonky policy positions and because Al Gore was a smarmy liar.
Jen
*Sigh*
myiq2xu
Nope, I’m not
Cyrus
Why wait for his next book? From the Salon interview:
Have you read people calling Goldberg “beyond parody”?
ThymeZone
It tries to treat the bracket part of your arrow as part of an HTML tag, and fails, I think. Also the preview editor doesn’t handle the situation the same way as the posting editor does. So you may not see a true preview.
Or it could just be that it’s wired to detect gender spoofing :)
Oh, and Go Obama! Yes We Can!
ThymeZone
myiq2 eats buggers.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Great. Now that we’ve established that you’ve decided to troll for Teh Supr Toosday, you have two options:
You can try to make this day go faster. Go do happy things and such… and you might get yourself a nice HRC win to take home with you to bed tonight.
Or we can tie you down and start the Transcendentalism dance routine. We’ve got more people than we can fit on stage. And we taught the Pony how to dance!
… and we’ll keep doing it until you attack someone with a knife.
/come on myiq, dance with us!!
//see, teh pony lieks u!
TheFountainHead
Your /snark makes me /facedesk.
jnfr
See, Obama would be a fine president, too. He’s sound on most policies though he’s a bit to the right of me (so is Clinton for that matter). His organizational strengths are clear. I don’t really get why the Clinton supporters and the Obama supporters have to hate each other.
myiq2xu
I couldn’t stand to read the whole interview so I missed that part.
Perhaps we need to create a new category for Doughy’s work.
Fantasy Non-fiction?” “Imaginary History?”
ThymeZone
Polished.
myiq2xu
It’s a one-way street. I’ve been commenting here for a while, but it wasn’t until I started defending Hillary and criticizing Obama that I had so much venom and vitriol directed at me.
I make comments about Obama, and I get personal insults in return.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Honest best guess?
Because we can’t impeach the one who actually deserves to have his rectum impregnated with a perpetual chainsaw, so the hardcore dems go out and cannibalize each other. Everyone wants the chance to be the one that stands up and tells the country how to correct itself.
Of course, both HRC and Obama would do various levels of good on this issue. But that doesn’t matter. Teh Evul must be PURGED FROM EVERYWON!!!1
TheFountainHead
Utterly untrue. You make idiotic, unproven, and unnecessary comments about Obama, and you get personal insults in return. And trust me, as someone who has stood out on corners with supporters and gone door to door, it is NOT a one-way street.
Cyrus
If you’re right, then great, but I wouldn’t get that optimistic. Districts are gerrymandered. The media loooves McCain, and even Romney has the qualities they tend to like in politicians (able to talk favorably about centrism and bipartisanship, strong chin, soulless automaton). A plurality of media consumers get their view of the world by relying on Fox News, in at least one study I saw. Republicans might not have the money advantage at the moment, but they still have plenty available. The Democrats in Congress are really not distinguishing themselves too well. No, I don’t expect a Republican in the Oval Office in February 2009, but a crushing defeat seems unlikely.
D-Chance.
I’m beginning to find a peculiar fascination with Rush Limbaugh, once again. Between his Huckabee/McCain derangement, Dole coming to the rescue, Stalkin’ Malkin telling him (Dole) to “get back in his cage” (thankfully, she didn’t say that to McCain… yet, although…), others in Conservative Blaghistan tearing into Limbaugh… civil war can be fun, especially when they’re so uncivil and fought between people who wouldn’t be caught anywhere near a real war.
Z
I can completely relate. Sadly, they don’t make an AA for political junkies.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You’re on the ‘Net, dude. You’re up against trolls and a couple self-important assholes (Cassidy), and then you take their self-concerned bullshit and blame the others for it.
I, for one, have been waiting for you to put a core to your issues against Ponyman this entire time. I believe you have reason, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. The others get sick of comments with a high Pissy/Logic ratio, as most people do.
We actually do expect you to back yourself up. You just never really do.
/we’re worried for you
//put down the razor
///and come have a seat
////there’s hot cocoa!
dslak
Another peculiar thing about the Limbaugh situation is that he’s been reduced to defending Clinton and Obama.
Jen
Dslak, that’s pretty weird. I don’t read Sullivan, why does he call that an “Yglesias award”?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Apostasy is worse than taboo.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Yglesias made a name for himself by pushing around the shit-kickers on the Left, even though he’s a lefty. Therefore, Sully honored him for being intellectually honest enough to break ranks.
Also, note that Yggy is young; the award was given when he was no older than 24, which makes his scolding all the more brazen.
myiq2xu
You got that right
4tehlulz
Rush is back on the oxycontin:
What else would explain going that far off script?
Jen
I like Yglesias, seeing Rush “an Yglesias award nominee” made me think it was something bad.
Sully, not so much, but he did link to this non-endorsement endorsement of James Fallows, which I think is very thoughtful.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Don’t think too much of it. With the exception of Yglesias, whom Sully liked before Yg came to the Atlantic, Sully is obviously being pressured to cross-link within the Atlantic stables. You can discount the value on those links.
jnfr
Sully has gotten less and less readable as this election has progressed.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Oooh u so warm and fuzzy Iz justs want to HUGGLE U!!
/GLOMP
//pssst! someone get the tranquilizer! I can only hold him for so long!
Cyrus
LOL at the Limbaugh quote at the Sullivan link.
Limbaugh is apparently more sane than his fans because he realizes that Obama and Clinton will not literally surrender to a Caliphate. On the one hand, he apparently thinks that’s what their supporters want. So close, yet so far away. (More likely, he’s well aware that The Left isn’t as bad as he makes it sound but there’s a lot of money in demagoguery, so when circumstances demand that he say something not-mean about Clinton and Obama, maintaining his image requires saying something mean about their supporters. I just thought that partially-sane-but-not-quite interpretation was funny.)
The way I always heard it was “you convert heathens, but you burn heretics.” Same difference.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I know, I was getting all hot and bothered over the repeated articles on hirsute men, beard culture, and living with AIDS… but then he had to go do this stuff on the Election and his opinions thereof. Back to Yahoo News for me.
/Blogs are a mixed bag.
TheFountainHead
Can you imagine what he’d be like if Obama fails to get the nomination?
Jen
Gene Weingarten has had this to say (his chat is on now, can I just plug his chats? They’re quirky and good.)
Jen
Well, actually I meant that the Fallows non-endorsement endorsement was thoughtful. It was not demagogic or emotional.
TheFountainHead
They are literally trying to recreate New Hampshire, first the tears, now this.
Punchy
Clit’in & McCant in the general. Book it.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Meh. Today, lunatics of all stripes will be pulling out all stops against all people. I’m just going to look away.
I’ll start getting disdainful again on Feb 6th.
Hey, at least it wasn’t the NOW NYS President explaining that thinking about voting for Obama is the same thing as psychological rape on a woman.
ThymeZone
There is no whining here. Strap on the kevlar jockstrap and take your punishment.
empty
That Gore sighing was just so annoying wasn’t it. Who would want to listen to THAT for four years. Just like Hillary’s cackle.
Punchy
It’s always the Blacks’ fault with Republicans.
Racists.
jnfr
I think if Clinton gets the nod Sully’s head will explode, literally.
libarbarian
Something I saw on NRO’s Corner
I’m surprised I hadn’t thought of this, but some of the Republican opposition to immigration might be a conscious (or even sub-conscious) worry that the immigrants are more likely to vote Dem.
ThymeZone
Cool. I want, and expect, a result like this:
An absolute ass-whupping of the GOP that throws their entire fucked up coalition into the ditch.
Wilfred
I read that WaPo story. Fuck Clinton. I was certain they’d try to pull something. I’m for Obama but I will not vote for her and her crowd because of shit like this.
Dracula
Typical Hillary fanboy.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Might be? Sub-conscious? what?
This is obvious from the get-go. “No treating brown people well because that gives them more enfranchisement.” Republican Staffer Commandment XII.
myiq2xu
Your link contained a partial quote. Here’s the full quote:
Lorna Brett was the person the Obama camp brought out to defend his “present” votes on abortion.
Oh those evil Clintons!
Jen
Via Sadly, No, this gem from Bill Kristol:
And so here’s an opportunity to ask something I’ve been thinking about. I realize our host is not Mr. Sunshine and Rainbows. But for me, I’ve never really *liked* Republicans. I know a few, am related to one who is otherwise o.k., but a lot of them seem to me a cold-hearted lot with no sense of humor and not much joy or empathy as they go through life. I guess none of my friends, or even people I don’t know that well but instinctively like on some level, are Republicans. And I’ve been trying to figure out whether that is because I am a partisan hack, or if they’re really just nvg company.
So, having never been to this blog until six months ago, what was it like before? I assume there were right-wing commenters, what were they like?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
SEE?? SEE?? RAPE! Evil misogynist chauvinist MAN!!
For Hill to fall back on Womenkind’s superficial need to see a woman in office to reinforce their own ‘inner’ strength implies she’s running out of bridges to hold on the line on.
The big question is, when she’s out of tactics, does she drop the act and start representing real people with real spinal columns (of both genders), or does she fold and go home?
I keep wanting to believe the former, but I’m doubting big time.
ThymeZone
They were short, fat, smelly pedophiles. Miscreants, sporting hideous countenances, and vile habits.
The talked in high squeaky voices, and had long dirty fingernails. They scratched at their private regions and spit on fluffy kittens.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I was sitting here thinking that we had another social org president who took her job a bit too seriously.
But, thank you, myiq, for reminding me that both Hillary and Obama are completely responsible for every one of their supporters, because each supporter gets a White House job, by law, if they win.
Your binary logic hurts my head. Please stop.
/yes, I CAN tell the difference between a supporter’s hysterics and a candidate’s avowed political positions.
//I wouldn’t have given Hill as long as I did if I could not.
Wilfred
I wonder how many people who never got involved in politics have been motivated to do so by Obama and the movement that has come together around him; plenty from what I hear. Many of those people are going to stay home in November if Obama’s campaign gets submarined. I certainly will, and that’s that.
Jen
I kind of had a feeling I would get an answer like that. Really, though. Are any of them decent people, or have all of those converted already? Does anyone know a Republican with a sense of humor or irony?
4tehlulz
Was that Balloon Juice or 4chan?
empty
See myiq. All you have to do is to have the Head certify your comments as necessary and you would get no personal insults. Play by the rules man!
Dennis - SGMM
Yesterday, on MSNBC, Bill Clinton dropped this one:
“You have a clear choice. You’re either going to vote for candidate who will provide affordable quality health care for all Americans, or one who thinks it’s not that important. If you think it’s important, vote for Hillary for president and she will give it to you.”
Does anyone really (Especially after Bill’s Excellent 2006 Advenure in Kazakhstan ) want this man anywhere near the White House?
Face
/peeks around, looking for TZ, doesnt see him
They weren’t really all that bad
/ducks for cover
myiq2xu
WTF?
Jen
There’s something adorable about that.
Dennis - SGMM
People should not pick on Hillary for crying. She doesn’t always cry. She was, for example, completely dry-eyed when she voted for the AUMF.
myiq2xu
Ahhhh, more right-wing meme. It was 2005, not 2006, get your false and misleading slurs correct.
From Media Matters:
BTW – What was Bill’s official capacity in 2005?
4tehlulz
PotD
demimondian
Being a Republican with a sense of humor is kind of like being an ex-gay: it’s a right-wing talking point for something that doesn’t exist.
The Other Steve
I am not a fan of NOW. Back in 1994 when they were debating the Violence Against Women Act, some people suggested that perhaps it should be expanded as a Domestic Violence Act and apply to men or women.
The position of NOW was to oppose this, and their justification was that men couldn’t be abused in a relationship because they were stronger.
I understand why the opposed the expansion, they thought it would take away from what they were trying to gain. But it was a disgusting argument to make. It showed a habit of not seeing the forest for the trees, and clearly not being concerned about an issue more than they were about winning an argument.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
/sigh
Read what you said:
WTF does Lorna Brett have do to with Clinton?
None!
And we can tell that!
So why the hell did you accuse people of saying it?
What the hell do you think we are? Monkeys that have graduated from punching out Shakespeare, so now we’re commenting on blogs?
We didn’t drink the poison. We don’t believe it’s a fight to the death. Stop acting like we believe everything pro-Clinton is Clinton.
The Other Steve
I didn’t think that was a fair criticism of the Clintons. I looked into it, and it turned out to be another Solomon style hit piece low on substance.
Z
My parents are Republicans. They are decent people with a sense of humor, and my mother gets irony. The problem is that they are still in the bubble. They don’t trust the media unless it tells them what they want to hear. I had hope during the 2006 elections that they were starting to emerge from the bubble. When that many Repubs were getting caught in sex and corruption scandals, it was hard for them to miss. They were actually glad the Dems won, but now they are creeping back into the bubble and will certainly go all in if Hillary wins.
Jen
The Pony transcends bubbles.
This was kind of sweet. Maybe myiq could call this guy and they could go have a Shirley Temple together.
The Other Steve
This argument about voting Present is pretty fucking pathetic.
I’ve long advocated that Democrats should respond to Republican wedge issues by abstaining from voting. Why record a yes or no on such a waste of time?
Voting Present sends a larger message than playing their games.
Which goes right back to why I dislike Hillary. She doesn’t understand how to defeat Republicans, because she just walks right into their games blindly.
Haltelcere
My wife would be a Republican if it wasn’t for their awful stances on women’s rights. Several of my family call themselves Republicans as well as a good number of friends. But everyone pretty much relies on pre-established heuristics (Democrats want to take all my money and all my guns, and believe that hardened killers just need more hugs to be reformed) which they have not re-evaluated.
The people I am around who are no longer Republicans are those who actually pay attention to politics. I.e. an uncle who is a fiscal conservative who was driven away by Republican’s social conservative agendas and the complete mismanagement of the Bush administration. Also, I have a coworker who was a member of the John Birch society at one time who now says that if he could vote in 2000 again he’d vote for Gore in a heartbeat.
Republicans do attract the authoritarian, kill-or-be-killed no-fun types (while Democrats do attract the flighty love-is-the-strongest-force-in-the-world life-is-a-party types) but most Republicans I know are normal, fun people who haven’t seriously evaluated how well their views are still matched by the Republican party.
libarbarian
Wow
Frontpagemag actually printed something worth printing
I dont expect liberals & leftists to love the man but at least they, unlike rightwingers, don’t have to invent smears about him being a “traitor” who collaborated with his NV captors.
Z
Because it is magical, I think the pony has crept into the bubble, at times, and let Obama whisper into my parent’s ears. They actually think he is alright.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
There is no such thing as a “present” vote in federal Congress. Abstaining doesn’t carry any special connotation to the issue of the bill. Voting “present” denotes that the Senator watched the bill go through, but has objections to how it went through. Voting present is like calling “foul, do over”. Abstention is usually just for conflicts of interest.
Illinois is special apparently.
Cyrus
Some of them seem to have converted to the left, yes, or at least edged into the center. OCSteve, for example, used to comment here and I think he can still be found at Obsidian Wings, and by the summer of 2006 I seem to remember he had grudgingly conceded the same problems with the Republican Party as John.
Some others have left, like TallDave and Stormy70 and Al Maviva, but remain unchanged on other comment threads. Or at least, they were still loyal Republicans for a while; I saw them elsewhere months after I saw them here, but I can’t say I remember them recently. Some of them seem to think that John was brainwashed by us.
Also, you’ve gathered that there’s a fair amount of spoofing around here? They used to be much more credible. Or maybe they tried harder or maybe they were more competent or maybe people were just more credulous or hadn’t been fooled enough. I know I mistook a fake right-winger for the real thing more than once.
Is there any way to search the archives from, say, 2005, other than by searching for a specific word or phrase, or hitting the “next page” button a million times? Also, whatever happened to Darrell, anyway?
empty
Jay Rockefeller for President!
The Other Steve
Fine then, whatever the rules allow for. I really loved it when the Texas Democrats walked out on the redistricting bill in the Texas legislature.
myiq2xu
As I said, Lorna Brett is the person that the Obama camp produced to defend his voting “present” on abortion votes in Illinois.
She is not merely a “supporter.”
According to Brett, the Illinois NOW chapter asked Obama to vote present.
The Clinton campaign has proof that this was a lie.
This makes the Clintons evil.
Jen
Thanks, Cyrus, that was interesting. I think maybe the spoofers used to be more credible because it used to be easier. With these guys that are left, they just defy spoof. There’s really nothing that could be said to riff on Hillary or the War on Terra that hasn’t actually be said, somewhere. It’s a very post-Liberal Fascism world out there.
myiq2xu
So the Illinois GOP introduces a draconian anti-abortion bill and the Democrats all vote “present” which allows the bill to pass. That makes lots of sense.
Voting “no” is like calling “foul, do over.” “No” means “no,” “present” means nothing.”
That was an entirely different strategy. Walking out meant that there were not enough members present to create a quorum, meaning no vote could be held on the issue.
TheFountainHead
Thanks, Caidence, for pointing out why the present vote isn’t abstaining from voting, it’s voting against a bill’s process, and in the Illinois legislature, is tantamount to a “No” vote at the end of the day.
Ha! Like I want that job!!
apishapa
15″ of snow in Southern Colorado last night might kind of slow down the caucus participation. Mine is just three blocks from my house.
I toughed it out and drove 45 miles to work even though the damned snow plows had not cleared the highway. None of the GUYs who live out of town came in today. Like driving is a sea of white in the dark. It would be fun if I didn’t have to worry about driving off the side. I might go home and take my son out in the pasture and spin brodies tonight. Caucus doesn’t start until 7 PM.
Tsulagi
Wasn’t here for the earlier characters, but yeah, I miss that little dweeb a bit. He was funny; it was like having a little piece of RedState here. Just as cartoon-ish. Comment threads would routinely pass 300 as Darrell and TZ would do their tango. He could play TZ like a cheap violin. But it got pretty tedious.
John S.
Not exactly. If a bill is introduced and voted on by 100 members, and 40 of them vote ‘present’, 50 vote ‘aye’ and 10 vote ‘nay’, then the bill does not pass.
According to the Chicago Tribune, the purpose of the ‘present’ vote is thus:
TheFountainHead
You make two massive, and I believe, incorrect, assumptions here.
1. All Democrats voted present.
2. The bill did not require a majority of yes votes from the quorum. If a bill gets 22 present votes, 42 no votes, and 45 yes votes, that doesn’t mean it passes. State legislature rules can be very different from federal ones. I’m not claiming any intimate knowledge of Illinois floor procedure, but I have seen this employed in other State legislatures.
slov
MSNBC steams their TV feed via their website, if anyone is at work and starting to jones.
John S.
My favorite conservative commenters from the past were TallDave, MacBuckets and DefenseGuy.
They were all special in their own special ways.
cleek
yummm. steamed feed.
ThymeZone
It got rid of Darrell. That was the goal.
Jen
So, if you really, really, really feed trolls, they do go away. But what if they have gastric bypass surgery and come back?
Ned Raggett
Darrell, pie and love. A simple combination of joy.
My shock news of the day — finding out Krist Novoselic supported Ron Paul. Er um UH. I went on a bit about it on the blog. Mind you, as a friend in Washington said to me, Novoselic’s approach to debating when he ran for lt. governor about equals Ron’s approach: complain about how the system sucks, then leave out the specifics.
myiq2xu
I stand corrected:
Voting “present” in Illinois is a cowardly way to vote “no.” That way the vote can’t be used against the legislator later.
How does voting “present” fit with this statement?:
Wilfred
Uh oh. Are there second acts on American blogs?
Krista
They ran a pretty broad spectrum, really. A few were okay and could present a decent argument. Some were infuriating, but fun to spar with. Some were just spewing the talking points. And one or two were definitely sui generis.
As an aside, I have to laugh. I was looking through some archives to jog my memory of some of the righties who used to come here, and came across this post of mine from August of 2005, when we were talking about Gonzales’ new top priority: prosecuting distributors of adult entertainment.
I guess THAT question was answered, wasn’t it?
ThymeZone
Maybe some do, not all. Darrell was not really a true troll (if he was for real, which was sometimes in doubt) but more likely an actual librul-hating righty who just couldn’t control himself.
My shtick was to fight with him until people got so sick of him that they’d demand his removal. I even told him, and everyone, that on more than one occasion. I even offered to resign from posting as long as he went too, just to make it really clear (although amazingly some people never got it).
That’s why I have always referred to TZ as a “disposable persona.” I will throw him onto the trash heap if necessary to rid the neighborhood of undesirables. I can create a new one in five minutes, and have done so experimentally over the years, with noone the wiser. Personas are easy. Ask DougJ, I’d guess he has done two dozen or more of them here so far. Of course he is into spoof, and I’m not. Spoof is a whole nother ballgame.
LBNL, the main thing about the Darrell Period was that John Cole said that Darrell was “arguing in good faith,” maybe the oddest single thing ever said on this blog. Whatever Darrell was, it was never about good faith. It was never about honest or coherent argument … he was smashed on the facts every day. Nobody could be that wrong on the facts all the time and not know it.
Jen
Hee hee. What goes on between a man and his wetsuits and dildo is his own business, I say.
myiq2xu
So Obama wanted to compromise on abortion?
I was assuming nothing, I was giving an example that I already said was premised on a single incorrect fact.
There’s more
Punchy
I see on Faux, Greta Van Suckscum is pimping the Great Mass Debator, Romney, as the next Reagan. High comedy.
demimondian
One of the old-timers happened to Darrell. Somehow, the Senator managed to piss off one of our Ents (see the internet troll archive for a definition), and…well, he learned the hard way that one should never really do that.
Regrettably, that particular exchange was eternally flushed down the memory hole by Tim — rightly so, since it did get pretty…um…nasty, even by our standards — and so there’s no record of the Senator’s final brave combat against an enemy beyond even his capacity to humiliate.
The Other Steve
WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP!
BULLSHIT ALERT! BULLSHIT ALERT! BULLSHIT ALERT!
This has already been debunked, by Lorna Brett herself.
Obama has never said the NOW chapter asked the legislature to vote that way. It was Illinois Planned Parenthood who did.
Furthermore NARAL has already come out on this and called the argument fucking bullshit.
It’s funny that you accuse Obama of lying, when you have nothing to support that claim.
demimondian
To be more accurate, I think the Senator ran into a Kung Fu Master, not an Ent.
Krista
I love that Internet Troll Archive. Kind of frightening how many people you recognize on there.
Ah yes, Darrell. I will always cherish the one time I managed to give him a bit of a smack-down. He quoted me, using it as an example of how “leftists” thought a certain thing, when my quote indicated nothing of the such. I took issue. The lads were delighted. It was a merry day here on Balloon-Juice.
Dennis - SGMM
Does that mean that Romney will sell weapons to Iran to finance the Contras?
The Other Steve
myiqis40… Do you want to respond to this?
This wasn’t very well received amongst some groups. Hell, Saletan over at slate even called it her new anti-abortion strategy
4tehlulz
Yes, but the difference is that Mitt, wanting to be more Reagan than Reagan, will sell them nuclear weapons.
myiq2xu
Really?
Watch the video at 1:10
I never said Obama lied, I said Brett did.
No, they didn’t.
So why did Obama vote “present?”
It looks to me like he voted “present” to cover his ass for later.
That’s not bold leadership. That’s the politics of calculation and triangulation.
Jamey
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp
Am I late with this news?
W. Va’s all in for Huck!
Other Steve: “myiqis40.” Comedy Gold!
The Other Steve
Ok, myiq has officially wandered off into Darrell land.
When you can’t argue in good faith, there’s no point in debating.
The Other Steve
Clinton appears to be desperate.
She’s now demanding debates every week for the next month. Even more curious, one of them is on Fox News, a network that Democrats had pledged to avoid.
I’m wondering if the Clinton campaign just isn’t flat broke, and they’re looking for ways to get free publicity?
Punchy
Congrats, Johnny. Yer state just voted for a Evolution-denying, it’s-God’s-Constitution, cheap suit-wearing used car salesman. Yea!
Dennis - SGMM
“Always accuse your opponents of your own most obvious faults”.
John S.
I’ve seen you cite this as the source of your contempt for Obama several times now, and I find it baffling.
If you are so turned off by the politics of calculation and triangulation, how in the hell can you be such an ardent supporter of Clinton? I mean, Hillary Clinton is a living embodiment of the politics of calculation and triangulation, so I don’t understand your position in the slightest.
Could you please explain?
myiq2xu
Like I said, personal attacks.
If you want me to respond, be specific and polite.
Mary
If I remembered my Christmas 2007 tourtiere pie recipe right now, I’d post it in memoriam.
Jake
Bwahaha!
Have the MittenPhiles declared war on West By God Virginia yet?
The Other Steve
What kind of pie do you like?
Xenos
I tangled with Darrell a few times, but it was pretty pointless. After about 100 posts arguing whether corporations are properly subject to regulation in spite of their “free speech rights” he went started recycling posts from the beginning of the thread as a way of starting the argument from the beginning.
Stormy70 was my favorite. She would drink heavily over the course of an evening, becoming more and more incoherent as she went along. Once JC become a public apostate in the course of the Schiavo contretemps the remaining good-faith conservatives decamped for Red State.
4tehlulz
lol Mitt
Sandwiched by Huck and McCain. He should just drop out now.
McCain/Huckabee ’08 is going to be the greatest electoral trainwreck this side of McGovern. I look forward to it.
ThymeZone
Not me. I like food, money, expensive gifts, desirable tickets to concerts and sporting events, free travel.
Does everyone have my email address?
TheFountainHead
I was gonna spend a lot of time on my response to myiq’s most recent bone, but then it hit me: I don’t give a shit about Obama’s present vote. You know why? Because the republicans in Illinois, to my knowledge, never passed any “draconian” anti-abortion laws while he was senator, and I don’t care how that came about. I’ve heard what the man has to say on the issue and I respect his views. Frankly, I’m sure they aren’t far off from Hillary’s. But I’m not voting for a President based solely on their votes on abortion or even on how they got it done, I’m basing my vote on what happened on their watch, and how they responded to the mistakes they’ve made. Hillary put my vote for her in jeopardy when she voted for the authorization of force in Iraq, and she continues to lose it every time she gets asked why and she tells us no one could have known any better (I fucking did, and I wasn’t alone, though it felt that way) or that the Levin amendment would have tied our hands with the UN. It was a bullshit answer the first time she gave it, and it was bullshit last Thursday night. That’s why I’m not voting for her. You find me an issue where Barack Obama voted incorrectly and has obfuscated as to why, and I’ll think about not supporting him as ardently as I do.
/endrant
Jen
Re: ironic Clinton defenses, in addition to the baffling claim that Obama triangulates…
I have read because Obama represents “the politics of personal destruction” (that one’s homegrown) and Michelle “just doesn’t get it that it isn’t about her or her husband”. (That was wasn’t, and unfortunately for myiq, it wins the absurdity award. To date.)
ThymeZone
To my taste, Mr. and Mrs. Obama have been the class of the field in this election cycle. By far, including the GOP side, of course.
ThymeZone
Word.
As time goes by, watching her tell that story, I have become convinced that she really does mean that casting that vote was the right thing for her to do. And she thinks that because she has been part of the White House power structure, and craves that executive power. Not in a pathological way, I don’t think she means to blaze new dysfunctional trails of unitary executive power. I just think that on balance, she likes the idea of a president being empowered to take action … even if, as it does in this case, it means granting extraconstitional power, or at the very least, circumventing the letter of the law (which is what AUMF is all about) to empower the president.
If there is one policy thing that puts me off HRC, that would be it. I want the Constitution followed, period. No winking, no games, no razzle dazzle. War means war, and it means full debate, and it means taking the necessary time, which in the case of Iraq, was available in abundance.
TheFountainHead
My father on Michelle Obama after watching her CNN interview:
“She should have run.”
My mother, after seeing Obama’s family after the victory in Iowa:
“Now there’s a first family.”
Mind you, both of my parents are bat-shit crazy liberals who tell me to this day that Kucinich is the only sane person in politics.
TheFountainHead
My father on Michelle Obama after watching her CNN interview:
“She should have run.”
My mother, after seeing Obama’s family after the victory in Iowa:
“Now there’s a first family.”
Mind you, both of my parents are bat-shit crazy liberals who tell me to this day that Kucinich is the only sane person in politics.
skip
I am for Obama but let’s not turn Hilary into the Judas Goat for the nation’s sins and shooing her into the wilderness. Lots of Hill polls voted for the resolution on the grounds that it would afford Bush creditabilty in his efforts to get what he wanted SHORT of war. Of course we NOW know Cheney and the OSP had no intention of seeing any deal brokered.
Then there was the memory of what happened to Max Cleland. There were plenty of reason to hedge that bet at the time, however good it may feel to say YOU would have been a profile in courage under those conditions.
skip
I am for Obama but let’s not turn Hilary into the Judas Goat for the nation’s sins and shooing her into the wilderness. Lots of Hill polls voted for the resolution on the grounds that it would afford Bush creditabilty in his efforts to get what he wanted SHORT of war. Of course we NOW know Cheney and the OSP had no intention of seeing any deal brokered.
Then there was the memory of what happened to Max Cleland. There were plenty of reason to hedge that bet at the time, however good it may feel to say YOU would have been a profile in courage under those conditions.
Xenos
Michelle Obama is amazing. And if choice of spouse is an important test of character… well, let’s just leave it at that, shall we?
fwiw, I voted Obama. Here in a very liberal section of Massachusetts (hippy-liberal rural/university area, not machine-democratic like in more urban areas of the state) there are a few Obama signs, and absolutely no Clinton signs. Obama is not even a big deal- he seems so obvious that nobody labors the point.
myiq2xu
Then why don’t you STFU?
myiq2xu
Because one of the main reasons given by Obama to vote for him is that “We can’t afford to triangulate and poll-test every position . . . ”
But that’s what he does. That’s the textbook definition of hypocrisy.
myiq2xu
Who said that?
myiq2xu
Name a few issues where he voted “correctly” and differently from Hillary.
Jen
myiq2xu Says:
I wish Obama’s followers didn’t seem like such a cult, and I wish the criticism of Hillary didn’t feel so much like personal hatred.
A cult of personality combined with the politics of personal destruction.
Isn’t that how we got Chimpy?
February 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
myiq2xu
I asked a question, based on someone else’s observation.
You’re using a right-wing tactic of putting words in my mouth.
I’m beginning to think incontrolados was right about you.
John S.
So then it’s really not about the calculation and triangulation, it’s about the hypocrisy?
Because if that’s the case, you should be voting for Obama…he transcends hypocrisy.
myiq2xu
I nominate for POTD
Jen
Incontrolados thought I was TZ. On every other point, she was incoherent, except she seemed to find me threatening. If you want to find me threatening as well, fine, that makes a grand total of two of you.
Your question clearly was meant to compare Obama to Bush on the two points of “cult of personality combined with the politics of personal destruction.” If you were not talking about Obama, I’d love to know who you were talking about.
Jen
Okay, rereading it, I can see that the politics of personal destruction could apply to some other force acting on Hillary other than Obama. Everyone’s favorite bogeyman, the MSM, for example. Apologies for miscontruing if that is the case.
But I’m still not TZ.
ThymeZone
You are not me, but am I you?
demimondian
I know you are, but what am I?
myiq2xu
Nobody has addressed my original question.
Obama Nation sure seems like a cult of personality. And the criticism of Hillary is not only personal, it extends to anyone who defends her. If you say it doesn’t, re-read the comments in this thread.
So we have a “cult of personality combined with the politics of personal destruction.”
Isn’t that how George W. Bush was originally elected?
It wasn’t because Bush’s policy positions were liked so much better than Gore’s. G-Dub’s positions were vague and misleading, while Gore’s were actually more popular.
The election was strongly influenced (to say the least) by the unrelenting attacks on Gore. He was falsely accused of being a liar. is that not “personal destruction?”
The personal attacks didn’t come from G-Dub’s mouth, they were pimped by others in his campaign, at the direction of Karl Rove.
I’ve been attacked and piled on, but no one has answered my question.
And I get accused of not arguing in good faith.
Jeebus!
Mary
#cough# CNN exit polls have given Georgia to Obama.