I will not tolerate more of this bullshit from them:
This morning brings the news that the campaign of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, has launched a new website where they are announcing how they are officially preparing to make the case that the rules of the Democratic nomination process should be changed.
Don’t like the rules- change them. Isn’t that precisely what has been wrong with the criminal Bush administration the past eight years?
The Clinton Strategy is clear. Remember the scene at the end of Platoon, when Captain Dale Dye, in the role of Captain Harris, orders in arty and bombing runs on his location when the base camp was over run:
Capt. Harris: Snakebite leader, Ripper Bravo Six, we’re gonna need you soonest be advised I’ve got zips in the wire down here, over!
Phantom Pilot: Roger your last Bravo Six, Snakebite lead we can’t run it any closer. We’re hot to trot and packing snape and nape but we’re bingo fuel. It’s your call, Six actual, Over.
Capt. Harris: Snakebite leader, Bravo Six, for the record, it’s my call. Dump everything you got left ON MY POS. I say again, I want all you’re holding INSIDE the perimeter. It’s a lovely war. Bravo Six Actual and Out.
Phantom Pilot: Roger your last Bravo Six. We copy it’s your call. Get em in their holes down there. Hang tough, Bravo Six we are coming cocked for treetops. Whiskey to Echo… Snakebite Two, this is lead. Last pass on zero niner. Watch my smoke to target, expend all remaining. Follow my trace…
That is their plan. Blow up the party and hope they are the ones still standing when the smoke clears.
I just sent 25 more bucks to Obama.
Jen
Q. for Demi: Do you still think that all Hillary really wanted in Florida, after all, was there to be a caucus, not for the primary delegates to count?
Billy K
Dammit. I just sent him $10 yesterday. It was my second donation in as many weeks. I’m gonna go broke before Hill-Dog capitulates.
Ugh
Even more.
Wilfred
that’s why the best message to send the Clintons is that if this kind of shit succeeds you won’t vote for them in the general. Period.
4tehlulz
See your $25 and raise you another $25.
Billy K
I hate to say it, but listen to this man.
Wilfred
In fact, I am coining a new message in response to this crap:
No. I. Won’t, i.e. vote for Clinton and reward this shit because, wait for it, the Republicans are worse.
Jen
I am with you Wilfredo. Assuming the Clinton campaign doesn’t read the comments thread at Balloon Juice, though, how do we get the message across…? Seriously, I’m looking for advice on translating anger into action.
The Other Steve
Ohio is not looking so good for Hillary. Latest SurveyUSA poll shows momentum towards Obama.
Billy K
Waiting for the “good for Hillary” spin…. or was that a one-day deal?
Jake
Think of it as a reminder that a (D) beside the name doesn’t mean the person deserves your vote.
Zifnab
Clinton isn’t going to win. She’ll go down kicking and screaming like the whiny little bitch queen she is, but at this point her goose is cooked. All the rules changes in the world aren’t going to save her ass come Convention Day.
But this “change the rules mid-game” so absolutely reeks of Bush, I’m beginning to doubt I could ever pull the lever for that power whore come November. Maybe the sheer stench of McCain… I don’t know… I’ll just settle into the blissful knowledge that I’ll be voting for Obama and this isn’t something I need to worry about.
SmilingPolitely
IMDB Memorable Quote Section for the fail. Captain Harris says it’s a lovely FUCKING war.
Krista
Wow. This is NOT the time to be doing that, Senator Clinton. Frankly, it just makes her look like a piss-poor loser.
I’d like to be generous of spirit enough to think that she be calling for process reform even if she was winning. But…there’s a difference between being generous of spirit and being utterly naive. And thinking that Hillary’s beefs with the nomination process have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she’s losing? Yeah, that’d be pretty naive.
The Grand Panjandrum
No worries. We (wife and I) just popped three grand to him. That maxes us out for the primary season.
Since we’re quoting movies, here’s one from the Delta Operator Hoot talking to Eversman near the end of the movie Black Hawk Down:
Indeed. And the first real shots have been fired. Time to lock and load.
Clinton supporters not related to the campaign plan to set up a 527 to smear Obama:
It is for this reason that we have to take this party back.
Davebo
Actually I agree we need to change the rules.
And we should have the new rules ready for 2012.
But in the middle of the game? Not so much.
Ugh
RE: Blow up the Party: Introducing Clinton’s speech last night:
ThymeZone
Every new story like this makes me go and push the DONATE button one more time. Ka-ching. I’d love to see the moneyometer at the Obama offices the last few days, I would bet that it’s going bonkers.
Meanwhile, I am seriously looking at going to Texas to help them GOTV down there. It’s a day’s drive from where I sit.
Keep it up Clintons, you’ll lose Texas by 17 points too.
jnfr
Markos makes a good case that duking it out through the 4th is good for the party.
I tell you, I’m not worried. I don’t think HRC is going to win at this point, and pulling this sort of stunt isn’t going to make it happen for her, nor will it harm Obama. I guarantee he’ll face worse in the general. That’ll be okay too.
crw
Bitchslap from the DNC party leaders in 5..4..3…
Seriously, I don’t see how any of the Democratic elected officials can stand for this. The demoralization these tactics engender would cause devastating down ticket casualties as Democratic voters stay home in droves.
Wilfred
My wife was teasing me the other day about my new found optimism in the political process, the belief that maybe, just once, something different was actually going to happen. She said we, Obama supporters, were all looking for redemption; redemption, in part, from the cynicism embodied in Clintonism and its desire for ‘the best interests of the Nation’.
Not me, non servium.
borehole
Okay, I clicked over–that’s some secret weapon, that site. With such a fresh, hip take, It’s sure to give pause to raving Obamalamadingdongs like, say, Harold Ickes.
Jesus Christ, these people couldn’t sell an ice cube to an ice cube addict with no access to modern refrigeration technology. Tell me if the following makes you want to go out on a date with me or punch me in the mouth:
FACT: Borehole’s comments are incisive, his views refreshing.
FACT: Borehole cleans up real nice-like.
FACT: Borehole’s car is totally sweet.
If the latter, congrats; you’re what’s known as “normal,” and if you’re a die-hard Clinton supporter you should avoid delegatehub.com at all cost, as it will make you feel like a fool for ever rooting for these swine.
If the former, you’re a seriously screwed-up caps fetishist who likes being talked down to, and probably Taylor Marsh. I’ll pick you up at 8.
FACT: You suck, Hillary. I fucking loved you until the authorization vote, and even after that I still liked you a whole hell of a lot. If you get the nom, I’ll vote for you, but you owe me a clothespin. Holding my nose is more effort than I’m willing to expend.
chopper
i’m glad i live in NY, which is going for the dem in november no matter what. so a protest vote against clinton is indeed still possible, if she manages to purposely screw the whole thing up.
earlier i said that i’d vote for her and then walk away from the democratic party. i’m rethinking that, given that i don’t live in a swing state.
The Grand Panjandrum
Get a couple of high profile websites to set up a way for people to write Dem leadership and protest these actions. Apply pressure by calling and emailing in large numbers. You only need dKos and FDL to get it organized. Maybe our current host would help us organize.
And finally–send money to Obama. These rat bastards understand the almighty dollar.
TheFountainHead
Senator Hillary “Putin” Clinton.
Teak111
The irony is Obama is winning precisely because he represents a change, hopefully dramatic, from the gatcha, snakebit, lethal politics of the last 16 years. We are tired of the Bushes and the Clintons, the Rushs and Roves, of Fox News and the right and left wing smear machines. Its gone too far, and if Hillary get nasty, as she undoubtedly will, she merely proves beyond a doubt that she is the problem and Obama is the solution. Hillary’s action will burn her to the ground. Call it attack fatigue. Amer are tired, we want a decent govt run by decent people.
Dennis - SGMM
Clinton is a brilliant tactician. Her surrogate throws worse shit at Obama supporters than any Republican has so far – that they happen to be Democrats too doesn’t matter. She announces plans to change the rules and hijack the nomination. Does she think that if she succeeds that we “latte-drinking, Prius- driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies” are going to find it in our hearts to love her? I’m a liberal first and a Democrat second. And what of the skeptical press, Republicans who hate Clintons with a white hot intensity, independents who broke for Obama or McCain?
Bill only appointed two of the Supremes, no rules changes this November. I hope, before I die, to vote for a woman president. It was electrifying when Walter Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro as his VP running mate. I will not vote for George W. Bush in a pants suit just because she’s a woman and (supposedly) a Democrat.
myiq2xu
Uh, didn’t they win the battle in Platoon? Shouldn’t you pick an example of a losing strategy to prove your point?
What are you afraid of anyway? Hillary can’t stop Him Obama is the One
Jen
Those are good ideas, I don’t doubt kos will get involved as this turd unfolds…
I have already sent what I can afford to for this month (not particularly close to $3k, I’m sad to say), but they say the Congressional Pandering Money is coming soon.
Mr Furious
The best part of the whole website is at the bottom:
WTF?
Jen
Does anyone know anything about Janet Napolitano? Let me say first off that I don’t. But as a complete first impression, I heard her on an NPR show a week or so ago, and she came off great. Funny, with an easy, genuine, and human-sounding laugh.
Gus
I’m tellin’ you, these Democrats are just fucking stupid enough to fuck up a sure thing election in the fall…
borehole
Wrong, Gus. We’re actually twice as stupid as would be necessary to fuck it up.
demimondian
Jen, to answer your question a second time, Yes. I. Do.
And, now, do you still think that the Washington State caucus system either makes sense or represents the people of this state well?
Texas Dem
I think the Clintons know they can’t catch up with Obama in the delegate count. At this point they’re simply trying to damage him for the general election. They know that if he wins in November, Hillary’s presidential ambitions are toast. She’d never be able to challenge an incumbent African-American president running for re-election in 2012, and by 2016 she’d be too old to run. But if Obama loses to McCain, and perhaps even loses badly (think Dukakis; think McGovern), many of the people who are damning the Clintons now will coming running back them in a few years as potential saviors. It doesn’t take too much imagination to see that McCain will be a disaster as president. Either because of age or unpopulatiry in office, he’s likely to be a one-term president. Even many Republicans say that. So perhaps the Clintons are just preparing for the next election.
Jen
Well, how on earth is that going to happen? There’s been no indication of it happening that I’ve seen, and HRC certainly isn’t going to call for a caucus after spending a month saying caucuses don’t matter and getting her butt handed to her every time there is one.
Now, when did I say that? I didn’t say anything remotely close to either one of those things. I don’t have an opinion about the caucus systems. All I said was that it was my understanding that the states picked their poison. If you want to eliminate the caucus system, it seems to me that you’d have to eliminate the state parties’ choice in what system they’re going to use. Maybe the DNC would make a decision for everyone. I’ve confessed my ignorance of this system and been completely baffled by how bizarre and arcane it is, but never have I had or expressed any opinion about what a preferable system would look like.
myiq2xu
Have you considered that the actual nomination vote won’t take place until August? Perhaps Hillary is counting on being within reach of the nomination with the Superdelegates and figuring that once Obama undergoes real scrutiny his star will fall like a meteor
What she doesn’t realize is that He is the One
His star will never fall
gratefulcub
Ever wonder why Taylor Marsh comments are an echo chamber? Well, they seem to refuse entry to any other type of comments.
All I said was that I too enjoy irony, in response to a commenter’s description of the Obama campaign feeling ‘entitled’ to the nomination.
L Boom
Janet Napolitano and Kathleen Sebelius (Gov. of Kansas) both seem to have pretty huge potential down the road. Sebelius especially has done some amazing things, including turning most of the state’s remaining moderate Republicans into Democrats. Both her Lt. Gov. and her Attorney General were former Republicans who switched parties to join her administration. Very cool stuff.
If Obama takes it in 2008, I think we’ll see either one or both as instant front-runners for the Democratic nomination in 2016, assuming he can hang on in 2012.
4tehlulz
Fixed.
bootlegger
Here’s a group of Catholics that will not vote for Hilary: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/02/19/st-mary’s-academy-bans-female-referee/
The General responds: http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/02/fondly-remememberin-marshall-petain.html
The Grand Panjandrum
I’ve met her twice. The last time was a small Obama event just prior to Super Tuesday.
I’m in NM, and she’s originally from Albuquerque, so she generates some local press as the Governor of Arizona. All the things you said about her are true. But she is easily underestimated because of her disarming nature. Make no mistake she is as tough as nails, and a tenacious fighter. I would love to see her get more national attention.
cleek
in general, if you don’t like the rules of the game, you either refuse to play, or you get the rules changed before you start. whining about the rules after you lose makes you look like a pussy.
Chris Johnson
Texas Dem- there’s no time for that nonsense.
Jen
An iron fist in a velvet glove, to use an imperfect metaphor, is, I think, the kind of woman we’d want to elect. Plus the fact that I’ve never heard of Mr. Napolitano.
Chris Johnson
It’s not so much that Obama is The One.
It’s just that he is clearly not Hillary, or W.
Can somebody pleeeeease figure out that that is the point?
Shygetz
What she doesn’t realize is that the Dem party isn’t willing to self-immolate to please her. And throwing her the election over a viable candidate like Obama via superdelegates would do just that.
4tehlulz
Sexist
John S.
Now why does this sound familiar…
Oh yeah! Right-wingers make this argument:
And Hillary makes the same argument:
Even though the reality is more like this (from Media Matters):
Congratulations, myiq2xu. You now sound exactly like Hillary Clinton, Tucker Carlson and America’s Shittiest Website. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows.
The Grand Panjandrum
Sorry if I sounded boastful. I just happen to have the means to do it. I was trying to make the point that if folks are tapped out to not feel guilty because a few of us have the means to continue with financial help.
Organizing online writing campaigns,making phone calls, and activities are just as helpful. The real strength of the Obama campaign is that they have very broad base of supporters willing to do at least a little bit. Its all of putting our little oars in the water and pulling in the same direction thats making such a big difference in this election.
Again I apologize if I sounded boastful. I’m just so fucking pissed right now I might be more strident than I would normally be.
Graeme
The interesting thing, at least to me as an independent and erstwhile GOP voter, is that the Clintons are doing exactly the same thing the GOP has been doing. The constant refrain has been, “Don’t like it? So what!? The other side is EVEN WORSE!”
Well, from my standpoint, I’m ready to give the other side a chance to prove they’re not EVEN WORSE. Because I’m sick of ‘the other party or candidate sucks even harder’ campaigning.
Why should I buy in, if that’s the best that’s on offer?
Fuck ’em.
grumpy realist
I think that if it looks like Hillary is considered to have weakened Obama against McCain (or if she muscles her way through to the nomination, runs against McCain, and loses), there won’t be a hole in the ground deep enough to save her from the wrath of the DNC.
The Grand Panjandrum
Tucker calling someone a wuss? You mean that tough guy who beat up “fags” when he was younger. Tucker “the bow-tie bitch” Carslon?
We are rapidly descending into …. (please stop me!) I can’t even type it. These sad little people.
Tsulagi
That’s funny. I thought of that too. But in the uplifting bubbly environment of hope and change didn’t want to point out that little downer detail.
Barakobots should be welcoming this from Hillary. Do you really think McCain is going to be nicer in the general? That somehow his eyes will be filled with magical pony dust and he’ll simply bow out to the MUP with a big grin on his face?
No freaking way. McCain wants it bad, and he knows he doesn’t have another shot. It’s going to get nasty. Much better to have a minor tuneup fight now with Hillary than to be surprised and caught flat footed in the last month by McCain when he’s not playing nice.
The Other Steve
I’m totally not hip. I just realized that Yes We Can video came from the guy from black eyed peas. I miss MTV, you konw back when they played videos. I’m at home with some ebola virus thing, and decided to watch stuff on youtube. I hear songs on the radio, but now that I see videos, i recognize people.
Damn you MTV!
And does Maroon 5 not sound like something out of the 1980s?
Jen
No, you weren’t boastful at all. Just made me wistful. If my youngest were tough enough to watch herself all day, I’d have an extra $1200 a month to kick in.
Z
The problem with the Washington primary is that it is an exercise in futility. Voters know that the delegates have already been awarded. Obama supporters know they don’t have to go out and vote, the deed is done. Hillary supporters have some motivation to get out there and demonstrate that the results may have been different if it truly was a primary state. The emphasis is on MAY have been different. Voter behavior is going to be different when it counts than when the vote is purely symbolic.
As far as I am concerned, if Washington voters don’t like the caucus system, then they need to demand change (for 2012). Sitting in Missouri, I have no right to tell Washington votes how to conduct their primary elections.
Jake
Comrade, your failure to hand over extra money earned running your Islahomocommielibrulfascist Abortion Clinic and maintain values of austerity and poverty has been noted.
Seriously, I know for a fact that the idea of a Dem. with cash to spare drives the fRighties crazy. We’re all supposed to be living in yurts, eating acorns and waiting for our welfare checks, so more power to ya.
Jen
Oh, for heaven’s sakes, I’ve been all over the net and back and I have not once seen this argument. I have never seen the argument that the R’s are somehow going to be less slimy this year. Look at the competent campaign Obama has run so far. Do you think it has any illusions about this?
Let’s flip this thing around so it comports with the current reality a little more. Hillary wants to sell herself as the only candidate tough enough to take on the R’s. She’s tested and tough and all that jazz. And Obama’s all fluff and pretty words and puppydog tails. And that fluff is kicking her ass, state after state, poll after poll, night after night, in primaries, in caucuses, in red states, in blue states, in black state, and in white states.
How’s she going to take on the Republicans if she can’t even take on OBambi, hmmmmmm?
Andrew J. Lazarus
Standard disclaimer about not being responsible for what you see if you click on links that take you to non-HRC website.
Golza
>Uh, didn’t they win the battle in Platoon? Shouldn’t you pick an example of a losing strategy to prove your point?
Er, didn’t they lose the war?
tBone
My thinking exactly. I’m in a state that will go R even if McCain is replaced with the reanimated corpse of Hitler with Zombie Saddam as his running mate. So, if Hillary somehow snags the nomination, I’ll take great (though meaningless) pleasure in writing someone else in.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
myiq, keep up, would you? We’re being disgusted that Clinton would lose this poorly.
We all wish that this had been a better competition, because we’d all be more assured of our pick by the end of.
But Clinton buckled and is playing politics instead of pushing advanced policy, and now we simply get Raw Obama.
Raw Obama is refreshing, and sweet, but if not prepared properly, may give you a severe stomachache.
Billy K
Golza, you beat me to it. Nice work.
Krista
Graeme’s been bitter ever since he caught Michelle Malkin fondling his countertops.
Jon H
” Do you really think McCain is going to be nicer in the general?”
No, I think the GOP will be so over the top that moderates and indies will go “Ick”.
Billy K
Saddambie?
JWeidner
No offense, but I think you’re conflating a couple different things here. John’s point was that Hillary is willing to firebomb the entire Democratic party in an attempt to win the nomination. If you refer back to his original post, it’s about Hillary’s attempt to change the rules of the game midway (ie: delegates, as shown in her new website) through. His point had nothing to do with the attacks coming from Hillary and the Hillbots.
Frankly, I agree with you. The more that Hillary attacks, the better off Obama will be, since I don’t believe the Republican machine will stop pounding. They’ll be out for blood, so the more Obama can face and deflect now, the better.
But in the case of Hillary trying to change the rules as regards delegates (as per the new website that John pointed out in the post), then I’m with John. Hillary would obviously rather call down the napalm on the Democrats in her attempt to win, rather than do anything with even the tiniest amount of class and grace.
The Other Steve
Mr. Platitude?
John Cole
If you want to call demolishing your base and having a handful of wounded survivors medivaced in a losing war a “win,” be my guest.
Zifnab
You say that now, but we’ll see how the general shapes up. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Republicans stick their foot in it particularly deep this year. McCain is hardly the wingnut first pick, and Republicans have been more than willing to eat their own.
Obama hasn’t just been winning blue state primaries, he’s been winning the general turn-out game. He’s got more people tromping to the polls than multiple other Republican candidates. A blue Alabama or Arizona or Texas is still very much in the cards. And he’s winning swing voters in record numbers.
Twenty-eight years after Reagen, we’re looking at a serious change in the political landscape.
Wilfred
Wow.
You don’t need a weatherman…
Jen
Just apropos, somehow.
Mark
I always thought he said “on my POD”, which i took to mean perimeter of defense. Does POS mean something in military speak?
Billy K
May as well get used to this type of “win.”
…I know…totally inappropriate…
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I think that’s more Giuliani than anybody else.
Billy K
Dude…if Gore and Edwards want in on this, they need to endorse soon.
Zifnab
I don’t know what that had to do with anything, but it was awesome none-the-less.
4tehlulz
Game over.
JWeidner
I have no idea, but I assumed it meant “on my position”
crw
McCain 2008 – You shall not pass!
Seriously, if he thinks running against change this year is a winning strategy, I can only guess he must be Darth Cheney’s new apprentice.
p.lukasiak
dude, the new website doesn’t say “change the rules”, it says “keep the rules intact” (the “rules” include allowing the Florida and Michigan delegates to be seated – the same people who said “you don’t count” can say “okay, you can count” — and in fact that was the plan all along) and stop trying to impose artificial criteria on ‘superdelegates’ whose job — ACCORDING TO THE RULES — it is to use their best judgement.
Billy K
p.lukasiak: Spoof, Troll, or Both? On the next Montel…
TR
Well said. If Clinton’s argument is that she’s a winner, a massive losing streak isn’t really the best evidence for that.
Ninerdave
It’s working for Bush and Clinton…sorta.
over_educated
So let me see if I follow:
“If the rules allow for some method to change the rules, than changing the rules is entirely OK.”
No dude, just no. If this comes to pass it is going to have the effect of dropping an atom bomb on the Democratic party. The rules which everyone submitted to were: “Florida and Michigan’s delegate will not be seated.” Whether ot or not that is just, is not the issue. The fact is it would be MORE unjust to reverse a decision at this point to the clear benefit of a single candidate.
LarryB
John, I’m not crazy about attempts to change the rules in the middle of the game either. I have to ask, though, is Obama “desroying the party” when his surrogates suggest that super delegates be forced to vote the primary/caucus results?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
“The website doesn’t say anything about change, even though were hoping to change the situation. Therefore, you’re all stupid.”
Not this year they don’t. Your boss agreed to these alterations, too.
“Plan all along”, maybe according to Hillary. I’m pretty sure most people understand that agreements are supposed to be immutable.
Pathetic. You need to revert the rules against a previous agreement to win.
I guess Economy and Torture and Global Warming aren’t issues we’re interested in anymore. I guess we’re really just concerned that every candidate gets a chance to play.
Hillary wants on the Merry-Go-Round; everyone stop playing! Hillary wants on!
Billy K
Hasn’t anyone done the math to figure out that even if the Florida and Michigan delegates are seated it’s not going to be enough to save the nomination formerly known as Hillary’s? She’s still gonna come up short.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You have a link I can see for that? I haven’t seen anything on the counter to Hillary’s attempt to sway delegate votes.
JWeidner
Are you sure you aren’t Harold Ickes? ‘Cause he voted to strip those delegates, but of course now that he’s working for Hillary, he wants them reinstated…
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Doesn’t matter. Going back on an agreement, no matter if it’s just verbal, is enough to eradicate the trust placed in someone.
It’s Hillary’s nuclear option, and we’re all a little astonished that she’s not even hesitating before depressing the fat red button. After all, if nothing appears sacred to her now, I’d be worried to trust her with my life when she’s President.
Pb
LarryB,
Fixed, and no. However, if the superdelegates did otherwise, that could very well end up destroying the party, however. FYI, HTH.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
As far as I’ve read, the Dem Party rules for what a “pledged” delegate can do is buried underneath many other confounding rules. It looks like it can be argued either way, and I think the current argument is “Politicians don’t steal delegates, because it’s extremely off-putting”. Thus implying that it can be done.
Obama doesn’t have an argument for forcing delegates necessarily sewn up. As far as I know, that is.
Jen
Well, you’ll notice I didn’t specify how. :) It just felt right.
“Blood alone moves the wheels of history” could be the slogan for the scorched-earth Hillary campaign….?
Tsulagi
Nope.
Pretty sure Hillary doesn’t have all powerful unitary candidate powers she’s granted herself through Hillary executive findings. If she gets rules changed, it would be through pushing/twisting the current rules with the consent of the DNC. Don’t think that’s going to happen. Don’t see Howard Dean going for that, and if I were to guess I’d think he probably leans more Obama than Hillary.
Well, if you’re talking battle only, if I recall in the movie the only other option was the certainty of being overran and wiped out. Sometimes winning ugly is better than losing pretty. Wasn’t the best example you could have used for your point. Just my opinion by someone not yet in the full rapture of the MUP’s presence on earth. (J/K)
ThymeZone
Arizona guy here. Napolitano is an excellent governor and administrator, smart and practical and very tough.
She is great in the one on one interview situation, very conversational and down to earth. All business, no bullshit ever.
Not the greatest public speaker in front of a big crowd, but competant.
A journeyman Democrat and progressive, but with tremendous political gifts for taking on a fight and winning it without rancor. She’d make an excellent president, if the country were ever smart enough to elect her.
Oh, and she’s gay. And yes, the GOP here has tried (and failed) to use that against her.
Shygetz
Shorter p.lukasiak: “Clinton doesn’t want to change the rules. It depends on what the definition of ‘rules’ is.”
ThymeZone
Oh and just to give my piece a little bio ….
She is a former US Attorney (Clinton appointee) who endorsed Barack Obama in this primary.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
True.
Though, this one isn’t one of those times.
For example: Hillary still has to win my NY vote for Senate if she runs again. And if explanation for her absence in chambers, especially for her missing crucial FISA votes, is “I wasted an attempt on the Presidency (because the rules didn’t benefit me)”, I’m not going to be pleased.
(Granted, there are 99 other senators to buffer her outlandish actions, but she’s leaving room for someone else to look more attractive)
Jen
Darn, gay.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I’m pretty sure the first woman president won’t be a twofer.
I’d be delighted to be wrong.
Billy K
Somehow I think Americans would be quicker to elect a gay woman President than a gay man. Something about Xena reruns or something…
Chris Johnson
All powerful unitary candidate powers she’s granted herself through Hillary executive findings?
Don’t talk like that dude, if she became President suddenly she would have DUBYA powers. It’s like suddenly she’s establishing that all the screeching Republican pundits were right about how she can’t be trusted with great power and authority. I’m sure they never believed it could really happen, it was a bogeyman to scare people with.
Hil is starting to scare me. It depends whether there is an ungraceful concession in store eventually, or if she really will stop at nothing. It’s gotten to the point where, if she manages to force her way into the nomination against the wishes of the country, primaries and Teamsters, she’s just established that she cannot be allowed to be President, that the wingnuts were right about her.
That would suck.
binzinerator
“It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.”
Some called that winning, too.
Great example, John, it works on several levels.
Z
I didn’t know she was gay! That is so awesome!
SamFromUtah
I’m in a state that will go R even if McCain is replaced with the reanimated corpse of Hitler with Zombie Saddam as his running mate.
(waves) Howdy, neighbor!
I’m assuming you mean Utah – there might even be some doubt about some of the other deep red states, but the Beehive State is on a Mission from God to vote for Redoublechins.
If you’re not from Utah, howdy anyway, and I’m sorry to hear about your state being as twisted as mine.
LarryB
Ok, fair enough. A bit of Googling has convinced me that the Obama camp isn’t demanding a change in the rules. They are only making a strong suggestion about how super delegates should cast their votes. So is HRC, but she is evil, and that makes it a different story. Which brings me to:
I have looked at the post linked to by John and I find the headline to be flat out false. Go to the referenced website and read it. Nowhere on this page do they suggest a convention rule change. Clinton, just like Obama, is interpreting the rules in a way that favors them. End. Of. Story (But Clinton is evil!).
ThymeZone
Re: Our governor is gay.
Yes, Im afraid the GOP thinks that a gay VP or Pres is just out of the question.
But my hunch is, she would overcome that opposition the same way she has done it here in AZ, by being competant and politically savvy, earning trust and respect.
Funny how good can triumph over crap, if you just go with it.
Lyle
If it could be leaked (and not denied) that Obama’s campaign was courting a named, prominent female politician as his running mate, that would surely help him pick up some of those women who are inclined to vote their gender.
HeartlandLiberal
Drop by the web site and let them know what you think of them. I just did. To whit:
p.lukasiak
“the plan” for Florida and Michigan was to exclude delegates from those states in putting together the majority needed to lock in the nomination — once someone had locked in the majority, the delegates from those two states would be seated. The prospect of a brokered convention wasn’t even really considered at the time.
As someone else noted above, even with Florida and Michigan, Clinton can’t lock in the nomination. Nor can Obama do it, even if they are not seated.
Meanwhile, a great deal of damage is being done to Democratic prospects in Michigan and Florida. Kerry won Michigan by only 3.42 points, and Dems were hoping to pick up Florida. But the Rasmussen poll is showing that while Clinton is behind McCain by only 6 points, Obama is behind by 17 points. And while I don’t have any head-to-head number for Michigan, while Romney won overall, the exit polls show that McCain did best among both your beloved “independents” and democrats — and on the idelogy question, McCain won among moderates.
Far more damage will be done to the party if Obama is the nominee and we lose in November because of the failure to seat Michigan and Florida than a what will happen if a bunch of hard-core Obama supporters pit a hissy fit if they are seated. The decision regarding who should be the Democratic candidate is going to be in the hands of the super-delegates either way — so the smart thing to do is to seat them.
myiq2xu
Y’all keep doing this perpetual outrage routine and Michelle Malkin is gonna be complaining of plagarism.
Obama is the One.
myiq2xu
As I recall the unit was outnumbered and overrun, and the tactic of calling in an air strike on his own position won the battle without killing any of his own men. And there were survivors of the unit that weren’t killed or medevaced and stayed to keep fighting.
That seems like a heroic victory to me.
BTW – Are you blaming a captain for losing the war? Kinda unfair isn’t it? He was victorious in the little bit he had control over.
myiq2xu
How Rovian of you to quote me out of context in order to misrepresent what I said.
I clearly stated what I believed her intentions to be but stated that she would fail.
Obama’s the One
Helena Montana
I just sent $30 to Obama on top of the $50 I sent week before last
Pooh
$60 more to B. Hussein Obama here. Plenty more where that came from, HRC…
myiq2xu
Send the max now!
Helena Montana
I started out very skeptical of Obama, but Hillary shoved me into his arms.
I still don’t believe a lot of the Obama hype, but I now believe to the depths of my heart that Hillary Clinton would be the worst thing possible for this country. Clearly she should not have the powers that George Bush and Dick Cheney have arrogated to themself. Obama–even if he were the lightweight pretty boy she says he is–is a million times better than that vicious, power-mad, arrogant, condescending harpy.
Now I send Obama money whenever I’ve got a few uncommitted bucks.
PeterJ
p.lukasiak, Rasmussen released a poll for Michigan today.
McCain is tied with Clinton, 44-44.
Obama beats McCain 47-39…
Krista
OMFG…if Obama picked her to be his running mate. A young biracial male and a lesbian in the White House.
You’d be able to light up Washington with all of the energy generated by centuries’ worth of bigots spinning in their graves.
Man, I wish I could donate to his campaign.
slippytoad
I’ve about had it with Hillary. This shit is ridiculous and someone needs to sit her sorry ass down and tell her that vanity campaigns only make those who run them look petty and foolish.
And, by the way, I am perpetually reminded of what made me want to vote Nader in 2000. The DLC needs to be disbanded and shut down. They are hurting, not helping.
BCT
I just went to the Clinton website linked to in Tapper’s (ugh) article, and I’ve got to say it’s not that bad.
I’m looking forward to Hillary dropping out so that everybody here can come back to their senses, these overwrought reactions to all things Hillary are getting embarrassing.
tBone
Nope, not from Utah. We have less Mormons and less scenery here.
I give Utah a pass for its shitty presidential politics due to Moab, btw.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Hammer meets nail…thank you Chris Johnson!
When a primary season is quickly wrapped up in favor of one candidate, we learn little or nothing about the nominee that we did not already know to begin with, especially with a lazy media that mostly just wants to cover horseraces (see Bush, George W. – 2000 primaries).
This time, not so much, and that is a very good thing. In stark contrast with 2000, this contest has been going on for what seems like since before the last ice age, and is starting to resemble the last few pages of Fox In Sox, where Beetles battle Beetles with their Paddles in a Puddle in a Bottle on a Poodle eating Noodles…
…but it has provided me at least with a much needed (cough) education (cough) in the respective characters of the two Dem. candidates. Last summer I would have been happy to see either Hillary or Obama be the nominee, thinking that either one would make a decent POTUS. Now I wouldn’t trust Hillary to be the executive leader of my neighborhood association, much less anything of greater consequence. She may still make a decent Senator once things cool off, but executive power should be kept as far away from her as possible.
Why? Because that sort of power is morally hazardous to anyone who comes near it, but an understanding of the proper relationship between means and ends at least helps to slow down the process of power tending to corrupt. This matters more than ever because W will leave the WH in 2009 booby trapped with moral hazards, especially if the same party controls both the WH and Congress.
Obama’s campaign has been very much about means – that it matters not only what we want to do, but how we choose to go about trying to make it happen. Some of his speeches may be thin on details, and vague about solutions, but they are all very emphatic about the how part. It isn’t just his speeches, but the way the whole campaign has been run – its mostly positive tone, its emphasis on organization and mobilization of voters, its geographic breadth and the reaching out to indy’s and moderates of both parties. This is a campaign that has put a lot of effort and political capital into communicating the idea that means are important for their own sake.
Hillary’s campaign has been the exact opposite – it is all about getting the job done, and screw anybody who gets in the way – collateral damage is OK as long as I can get my 50 + 1 % and make it to the final goal. Her campaign slogan should be “By whatever means necessary”.
Screw that. After 7+ years of W, this country needs and deserves something better than a Democratic equivalent of Karl Rove in the WH, no matter how competent they may (or may not) be. The next President is going to face a huge set of problems, and the temptation to cut corners will be enormous. Obama is absolutely correct that this is a historically important election, potentially a tipping point for this country, and we won’t get a do-over on this.
IMHO this election is no longer just about the candidates, about deciding which one would a better nominee – it is now about us – it has become a test of our character as a political party and as a nation. What do we value more: means and ends, or just ends alone for their own sake? And if the two conflict with each other, if we can’t be sure of being able to have both, how much of a price are we willing to pay to protect our means from being justified by our ends? Have the last 7 years taught us anything about slippery slopes and how to avoid them?
the0wl
Now,update to May 08, and see what’s become of our once intrepid female Democrat candidate. Finally dug her own grave?
http://hillarymustgo.blogspot.com/
Cheers;
the0wl