Clinton wins big. Nothing changes.
Terry McAuliffe is arguing that votes were stolen yesterday in Michigan, and this is about a broader principle- democracy.
Because as we all know, democracy is best represented when only one person is on the ballot. Just ask Kim Jong Il and Saddam Hussein.
Just go away, Harold and Terry.
rob!
even that hack McAuliffe seemed to back away from talk about keeping this going past the end of the week while talking to Olbermann and Matthews.
chuck todd’s theory that Obama will rack up a bunch of SDs so Montana and Daokta can put him over the top sounds good to me.
Just Some Fuckhead
Still out there creating massive ill-will for absolutely nothing? Wow, whatever in the world could be the point of that?
Ted
Hey! Kim Jong Il’s and Hussein’s opponents VOLUNTARILY took their names OFF the ballot. Nobody FORCED them to! So shut up!
El Cid
I just want you all to know that I just had a secret ballot which my name was on, and you had a perfect opportunity to put your name on it too, and you didn’t, and so now I am President.
Ted
Can I just say that I love Obama’s decision to pre-defile the site of the GOP convention with his evil Democrat vibes. He knows his speech there will help ensure that during the GOP gala, vending machines will fail to dispense snacks but keep money, toilets will stop up and overflow, and the attendees will keep wondering where that awful arugula smell everywhere is coming from.
rob!
on a separate, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones is an absolutely worthless, dishonest piece of hacktastic shit.
Ninerdave
Just watched Chris and Stephanie Tubbs Jones the new Clinton meme seems to be:
1) Hillary had delegates stolen from her in MI at the RBC.
2) Nobody voted for Obama in MI because he screwed up and didn’t put his name on the ballot.
3) When asked about the math, bring up that votes are not being counted and couch it in hyper patriotic rhetoric.
Ninerdave
Since you are not Hillary or McCain, I am ok with this.
Carnacki
I’m looking forward to the dozens of Daily Kos blog posts and national stories about all the Appalachians in Puerto Rico responsible for Clinton’s landslide win. /snark.
KC
I really hope this thing cools down, but it is beginning to seem that this whole “vote stolen” canard is about destroying Obama, pure and simple. Tainting his victory is the only way the Clintons can win, whatever winning means at this point. Honestly though, this is really the fault of the super delegates. They need to make their decisions as soon as possible, whether they are for Clinton or Obama, pure and simple.
Quiddity
We must count all the votes! All of them. Those from Florida and Michigan. And from Hillary’s senate race in ’06, because those were votes just like all the others. Not to mention Hillary’s race in 2000. Just as meaningful. Icky Ickes tells me so. It’s the will of the people, as the charming Lanny Davis constantly reminds us.
But you say, Obama wasn’t on the New York senate ballot in 2000 and 2006. Well, just like Michigan, it was his chioce to stay off the ballot, wasn’t it?
When you add it all up, a good case can be made that Hillary has received more votes than there are bosons in the universe. Case closed.
Anyway, Obama shouln’t get the nomination because he’s been playing the race card on Ferraro for months. Pulling it out of his sleeve. Shuffling the deck so that it’s the second-dealt card. Marking a corner with his fingernail so he can see where it is on the table. He’s a sneaky Muslim, that’s for sure.
crw
There’s an easy counter for the vote stolen, just like Gore in 2000 meme:
Al Gore endorses Obama and calls the comparison offensive bullshit. Will he? I don’t know.
Ninerdave
Keith:
“This just in, fully 100% of Hillary Clinton voters in Puerto Rico will not be voting for Barack Obama in November. Of course they will also not be voting for McCain either. Stephanie Tubbs Jones is going to kill me for that.”
Lawlz!
KC
Well, I do think that there is a point to Jeralyn’s recent post, that super delegates ought to consider the popular vote margin from certified elections. However, that does not mean that all supers will support the outcome supported by Jeralyn. After all, many supers are from states with caucuses. They no doubt might feel that Obama deserves their vote because he received the popular support of caucus goers in their respective states. I think both Clinton and Obama supporters (myself) are kidding themselves still if they think the decision for undecideds will be easy at this point.
Ted
I doubt it. He knows he’ll be called “Brutus” by MacAuliffe.
zzyzx
The reason why the SDs aren’t going to flock to the popular vote argument is that it’s muddled. You have to compare different types of contests and somehow say that they’re equal. Even with the muddiness, once the 4 caucus estimates are added, either Obama will have a lead or Clinton will have one in the range of like 40,000 votes. That’s not the overwhelming argument she needs.
crw
Nah. The Clintons are so beyond that now. He’ll be called Lee Harvey Oswald.
KC
zzyzx,
I think you’re right, but it’s still an argument that supers will probably consider, among others.
Scotty
If Obama wanted to be a real dick he could call a press conference and say ‘Puerto Rico doesn’t count, they don’t even have a say in November.’
nightjar
I’ve rattled this around my brain for some time now. At first it seemed like just a ploy to buck up the hilbot troops and to stay in the news cycle. But more and more it is looking like something darker — a kind of willful suspension from reality. These are smart and experienced people who have apparently convinced themselves they have a valid argument making righteous the absurd.
It reminds me of a while back, I kept getting calls from a bill collector who was looking to harass a delinquent consumer. The only problem was they were looking for someone other than me. Apparently from a person who’d had my phone number previously. At first I informed them they had the wrong person and they said OK we’ll not call anymore. But they did, over and over again. They informed me they had decided I was lying to them, and they were going to do bad things and I would argue with them how they had no case and we’d have this big court trial. Then one day it struck how really silly the whole thing was because I wasn’t the person with the debt. I had a good laugh and changed my phone number.
KC
I just saw the following from comments in the Politico:
Another commentor saw it apparently; Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show. Jeez, I hope for Obama’s sake this isn’t true. If it is, we better welcome candidate Hillary Clinton to the top spot.
jrg
Yes, it’s time we bring Democracy to Michigan. Clearly economic sanctions are not working. This move only strengthened HRC’s foreign policy credibility.
Hillary did not risk her ass in Bosnia to lose to the misogynists here in the U.S. that did not vote for her. She did not single-handedly negotiate peace in Ireland just to come back home to a country where a woman cannot ever be president. Misogynist.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
fixt.
Obama’s campaign has been grossly disrespectful to stupid people everywhere. That alone should disqualify him from the job. We need a President who will treat us all like morons, because that is what we have worked hard for all our lives, and dang it, we deserve it!
/Ferraro
nightjar
WTF! Hillary has already been first lady and Michelle is not running for POTUS. So what.
rob!
i think that Michelle “Whitey” tape is made by the same guy who’s peddling the “proof there are aliens” tape.
…then you KNOW its not real!
nightjar
Oh yea, the tape was found in Al Capones vault.
KC
Clearly you have not visited Capones’ vault.
John Cole
Count me in the “show me the tape or STFU” crowd.
zzyzx
My guess, if it exists at all, is that it’s her quoting someone else, e.g. “We need to move beyond our divisions. I heard someone call a man ‘Whitey’ the other day and that’s the sort of thing we need to stop.”
Ted
i think that Michelle “Whitey” tape is made by the same guy who’s peddling the “proof there are aliens” tape.
Anyone seen that nutjob Larry Silver’s blog? The guy who insists he KNOWS Obama did crack in 1999, and claims he had “oral sex” with Obama in the back of a limo? Guy’s blog gets more comments than Atrios (though with only about a post per day). He’s got a YouTube up of what he claims is Obama parading an erection in front of reporters on his campaign plane. You watch it, and you can’t really figure out what the hell they’re talking about. What it actually looks like is the passengers (Obama included) being told to sit down (probably by the crew, but you don’t hear it), the press urging each other to do so, and Obama making a defiant ‘I will continue to stand’ show as a joke.
Hopefully if this Whitey thing exists, it’s a similar complete misreading of some video.
El Cid
Count me in the “F*** your tape” and “STFU anyway you bunch of pathetic losers” crowd.
KC
Fuck it, I emailed Ben Smith at the Politico to see if he has heard anything in journalism circles to indicate whether or not anything his commentators are saying is true about the tape. I’m not expecting to hear anything back, but I just hate that this crap is floating around out there. I’m also beginning to believe that Obama needs to start hitting back on the idea that he stole the election/lost the popular vote. By staying silent, or at least not addressing these issues in some way, I’m not certain he’s helping himself.
4tehlulz
I predict many pixels and much overdup on this “tape”.
nightjar
LOL, I guess not, but I’ve visited Geraldo’s fantastical imagination regularly displayed on his TV shows.
KC
Poor you.
El Cid
Reportedly, in the new tape Michelle Obama is audible clearly saying “F*** it! There are no words on this! I can’t do it! I’ll do it live. DO IT LIVE!!! F*** IT!!!”
dreggas
Me too, if this was really out there it would have come out by now.
Dennis - SGMM
Typical elitist. You’re not being inclusive here. What about the closet racists? Huh? What about all of the old jerks who fell asleep on the job years ago and now find themselves reporting to a boss who is younger than they are? These people deserve to be represented.
Democrats must select a nominee whose close ties with the banks and the military-industrial complex guarantees that the system that has served us so well will continue.
jake
The only thing more fucked up than Camp Clintoon is the fucking Texas tourism ad that causes the page to become five million feet wide. Bra & Panties Media stuffs its bra and panties!
oh really
I don’t think that’s how it’s done. Such valuable campaign material can’t just be released. It’s much more effective if everyone floats rumors about it, the blogs chatter about it, and then, when the time is right for maximum damage — blam — it comes out. The question is will it be Hillary who drops the bomb (through nine layers of surrogates) or the GOP, which may currently only be two or three layers of surrogates away from the Clinton campaign?
I’m a mildly positive/partly lesser-evil Obama supporter (Hillary is one heck of an evil.), but if this tape really exists, Obama can expect a huge hit. Ranting about “whitey” might work in the Marcus Garvey BTA Party, but it’s not likely to go over well nationally. And it won’t matter that it’s Obama’s wife and not him doing the talking.
It seems like spouses have become more and more important as ways to get at candidates. Bill has been an embarrassment, Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife. Someday, the ideal candidate will be single or have a spouse who fell into a coma at the age of five.
El Cid
Wait — you’re saying it would be less controversial for a candidate who married his wife when she was 5?
Dennis - SGMM
I have a bombshell video of Hillary going down on Geraldine Ferraro which I will release a week from Tuesday.
KC
That’s exactly the issue. And, even if it’s not true, that it appears to be hitting circles beyond the occasional net commentator isn’t exactly good for Obama. I think Larry Johnson, who appears to have first floated the story, needs to do a little more explaining.
crw
Right. Which is why the GOP is openly worrying about a Democratic landslide in November and Rupert fucking Murdoch is projecting Obama’s going to win and all but admits McCain is the worst candidate the GOP has been saddled with since Barry Goldwater.
nightjar
What the fuck are you talking about? Michelle said what? Going after a candidates wife is wingnut Malkinite territory. Newsflash” unless they have video of Michelle cleaning an AK 47 and wearing a Che Lives! teeshirt whilst wistleling the Soviet National Anthem, it will just be another feeding frenzy news cycle circle jerk led by Tweety and his minions. Obama’s poll numbers will drop 2 points before they rebound by 4. Michelle is not BArack, like Wright is not Barack, nor Ayers. People don’t much care what a possible First Lady says. And please shove the “Saint” shit in a dark smelly place.
KRK
Then stop talking about it. This is like the third or fourth thread where you’ve tried to get folks to (a) reassure you, or (b) join in your concerns. I’m starting to believe it’s the latter.
And I’m certain that the Obama campaign is more on top of managing his message than people who worry about having read in a comment on a news/politics blog that something was discussed on Geraldo that might confirm Larry Johnson’s promises to the yahoos at NoQ about an Obama campaign-killing video.
Just Some Fuckhead
I suppose Michelle Obama could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what she decided to do was liberate the workers of the world before her husband was in public life.
Just Some Fuckhead
I threw up a little in my mouth.
KRK
Are you really missing your role in this, “even if it’s not true”? Rather than having any explaining to do, I think Larry has you right where he wants you. Not that you’re alone.
zzyzx
You’re forgetting the opposite problem though, where people talk it up so much that the original video is bound to disappoint. This rumor has moved from, “There’s an anti-white rant by Michelle,” to, “There’s a ‘whitey’ style video from Michelle,” to, “Michelle was caught on video blasting, ‘Whitey.,” to, “Michelle was caught on video tape screaming, ‘Kill Whitey!'”
So now if it comes out and it’s something like her talking about how whites have historically oppressed blacks, the general reaction will be, “That’s what we’ve been waiting for?”
nightjar
Hillary is currently regurgitating the same ole corrupt shit that “we are winning the popular vote” and since Obama won the delegates all is currently even steven . Somebody put me out my misery, puhleeease.
johninpt
Don’t you see?!!! If the tape of Michelle never comes out, it will be because Don Obama had everyone connected with it whacked! Wouldn’t be the first time, from what I hear.
KC
No, I realized my “role” after clicking “send,” but it was too late to stop the comment from going through. I’ll get back to watching Geraldo now.
jibeaux
Has anyone ever, in the history of mankind, said “whitey” in a non-ironic, non-tongue-in-cheek way? And why exactly is it good strategic waiting to talk about this alleged video for a month and unveil it just as the last two freakin’ states are about to vote, when all hope is lost? This video does not exist.
nightjar
Even Lambert at Corrente sees this.
zzyzx
jib – no, no one has, which is why I’m so amused by the concept. It’s easy to say that a video exists, harder to find it, but yeah, “Whitey,” seems to be a term that white racists think blacks use to describe them.
DougJ
I can’t believe we’ve 20+ comments based on something KC saw in the comments on Ben Smith’s blog.
carsick
As we all know, democracy is best represented by a territory’s primary. Especially one that has no ability to effect the general election with their votes.
DougJ
Here’s one of the comments about the “whitey tape” I found on Ben Smith’s blog
MICHELLE OBAMA VIDEO TAPE COMING OUT WITH HER CALLING WHITE PEOPLE RACIAL EPITHET!!!!! CAN’T WAIT TO SEE IT!!! BYE BYE BARACK X
Pretty convincing stuff, huh?
zzyzx
Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.
nightjar
Me neither, but the instructions do say
Hot air and Ill-informed banter.
KC
Or, you can just watch Geraldo talk about it.
DougJ
Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.
I guess you’re right, but mining the comments of a blog that is itself mostly about hair-cuts and waffles just seems depressing to me.
Ninerdave
Actually I just read this tape is in the hands of MSNBC. They and the rest of the liberal Obama protecting media are making sure this tape is not seen. You see that are backing his plan of turning the US into a Muslim religious state, exterminating all white men, enslaving all the white women, the resurrecting Khrushchev and turning the country over to him.
Anticorium
For those who want a preview of this tape’s revelation, please cue up the sixth-season Simpsons episode “Homer Badman”. I for one am preparing to be completely and irrevocably alienated by what Michelle Obama thinks of “Whitey’s … sweet can– that s– sweet can–“.
Bob In Pacifica
Re: Tubbs Jones et al.
In about a week someone should pull the good Congresswoman aside and ask her, “Are you with us or against us? Are you a Democrat who supports the nominee or are you trying to tear down the party? Do you realize when you talk shit you hurt all Democrats? Do you realize that Clinton isn’t going to help you now that it’s over?”
Obama has been more than polite to H. Clinton considering her behavior in this campaign. But Tubbs Jones should know enough to realize this is over and it’s getting personal, and Tubbs Jones is pissing off the people she’s going to be looking to for money and support.
Jake
Heh. Check out Drudge.
Don’t worry. He doesn’t have anything up about this phantom video. He just seems to be the only one who understands what this victory in PR means for Clinton.
El Cid
This whole “video” discussion is some sad, middle-school a** sh*t.
zzyzx
I’ll save you the link to Noquarter and go there myself to paste what Geraldo said:
(capitalization from noquarter. That makes you look even more reliable)
And DougJ, balloonjuice is the site where I think we have to push back. This gets enough mainstream attention that it would be a jumping off point.
Kevin
Drudge has what is just about the worst-formatted website I have seen in years.
Mary
KC, I’ve gone to Politico and have seen references to the tape from a commenter I’d call VERY unreliable. First s/he said that it was mentioned on Geraldo, then that it was all over Fox News. Someone else in the same thread says that they’re watching Fox and nothing has been said, and there’s nothing on their web site.
And IF Geraldo said anything, I’ll bet you that it was a reference to “blog rumors” about such a tape.
If you stare too long at rat-fuckers, you can turn into a rat-fucker. You might feel a hell of a lot better if you ignore every last anonymous rumour, OK?
oh really
Obviously not. The idea is she/he goes into a coma at five and then marries at 21. There’s not that much you can dig up on a five year old — at least not today. In a decade or two every five-year-old will be videoing every second of every day from the age of two when they get their first cell phones. Then, it will be a different story.
DougJ
Speaking of idiotic stories, Halperin is still pimping “Wafflegate”.
God help us all.
ThymeZone
No no, as we all know, the Kamp Krusty Kounseling Kommittee, also known be the acronym “demi”, teaches us that these people are Just Doing Their Jobs.
You know, just like all the Collossal Fuckups and Shitstains in politics in government are Just Doing Their Jobs.
So Get Off Their Fookin Backs.
KC
Jesus, “mining”? I saw the follwing comment, which I block quoted earlier, when I was reading a Ben Smith entry which was linked to by Kos:
After that, I noted another commentator saw Geraldo discussing it on Fox, then asked if anyone knew where this shit was coming from and if it was true. I was hoping for an answer, but should have just googled it first. Didn’t mean to spread shit with a dull knife.
Cain
Mwahahaha.. Rush concert in 4 hours!! I’ll be spending the evening rockin out. I leave you with Between the Wheels as commentary of the past 7 years:
To live between a rock and a hard place
In between time
Cruising in prime time
Soaking up the cathode rays
To live between the wars in our time
Living in real time
Holding the good time
Holding on to yesterdays
You know how that rabbit feels
Going under your speeding wheels
Bright images flashing by
Like windshields towards a fly
Frozen in the fatal climb
But the wheels of time
Just pass you by
Wheels can take you around
Wheels can cut you down
We can go from boom to bust
From dreams to a bowl of dust
We can fall from rockets’ red glare
Down to “Brother can you spare…”
Another war
Another wasteland
And another lost generation
you can get the rest of the lyrics here
BTW Conservative Liberal, you should check out the pics of Neal riding his bike.. 25,000 miles on the last tour.. check em here
cain
carsick
Newsflash!!!!:
I saw a comment on Michelle Malkin’s blog that said a video is soon to come out with McCain saying he needed roofies the last time he convinced his wife to have sex with him. AT A REPUBLICAN FUNDRAISER AND CAUGHT ON TAPE!!!!!
Cain
Oh, I’m sorry are we still talking about kill whitey..? I should have stayed on topic. So sorry. I hope I sound insincere. heh.
cain
KC
I’d fuckin’ pay to see that tape.
Jake
From Kos (main page):
Indeed. And yet, the fucking charade continues.
oh really
It’s not a question of going after Michelle. When someone runs for office in this country today, he or she and every surrogate has to know that everything one says will be used in any way possible to damage the candidate. So, when an obviously intelligent woman like Michelle Obama stands up in front of an audience (on more than one occasion) and says something about being proud of the United States for the first time in her life (or even adult life), that qualifies as an incredibly stupid thing to say. Even if it’s true, and I don’t much care about Michelle Obama’s thoughts and opinions, she could have said the same thing in a way that wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow. “I’ve never been more proud of my country….” The addition of the single word “more” would have made her statement unassailable. If the idea is to win, then making statements that on a moment’s reflection any idiot knows will be ammunition for one’s opponent(s) is just plain stupid.
Exactly, and for any candidates not in the race because their masochism demands they suffer, the point is to minimize those circle jerks. Like it or not, they hurt.
Obviously, you’re in your Philosopher King mode today. I’d honor your request, but I don’t know your address. Instead of attacking the messenger, why not consider what someone is saying, instead of what you wish the world was like. By the way, if every time a stink was raised about one of these minor issues, Obama’s poll numbers fell by two points and then rebounded by 4, he’d be thirty or forty points ahead. Sadly, that’s not the way the real world works. And that’s not what his poll numbers show.
I’m an Obama support (though hardly rabid), and I’d like to see him win by being both honest and smart. There are things he can control and he alone can answer for, and I’d hope he doesn’t have to spend any time trying to patch wounds inflicted by careless and foolish statements made by surrogates, whether his wife or Samantha Power, someone I admire. It’s arguable whether “monster” is the right word to describe HRC, but Power knew the second the words had left her mouth that she shouldn’t have said them.
Note: if you work on your moral outrage a little, you’ll fit in nicely over on NoQuarter, though I should caution you in their little make belief universe Obama is the worst human being in the history of the world.
KC
Um, this argument about the popular vote has been made now by the Clinton camp for two weeks. Where has Obama been on it? It’s his job (or the job of his people) to rebut it, if he can.
oh really
I hope you’re right. I’d love to see the American people simply get so tired of this crap that they stop paying attention to it. I worry that they also might tune out the important stuff too.
Jake
Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?
DougJ
Where has Obama been on it? It’s his job (or the job of his people) to rebut it, if he can.
No, it’s not. He’s going to win anyway and a shouting match with Hillary does not benefit him.
You Hillary supporters are nuts. Go ahead and vote for McCain in November if it makes you feel better. Good Lord — I don’t even like having people like you on my side.
The Other Steve
See, Hillary Clinton wins the big states that are necessary to win in November!
All of us hilltards told ya so! And if it hadn’t been for those meddling kids, it would have worked too!
D.N. Nation
Have the Hillary shills yet come up with a general election plan wherein they somehow win without 95% of the black vote and without 80% of angry Obama supporters?
oh really
Undoubtedly, but those people already know that Obama is a Muslim (most likely an Imam) and that he once disappeared for six months to train in Afghanistan with his best childhood friend Osama. Most of them probably already think they were present when Michelle said whatever she did or didn’t say to whomever she did or didn’t say it. Mention of the video just acted as an aid in recovering the memory. Just don’t ask any of them about the anal probe.
The Other Steve
That’s funny.
Jake
Right. I think the fairly consistent pushback from the Obama team has been that what matters is the number of delegates.
Pushing back by talking about other ways to count votes would just give the popular vote nonsense some legitimacy. They seem content to let people figure out that if it sounds like bullshit, looks like bullshit, and comes from Team Clinton, then it probably is bullshit.
The Other Steve
They’ve got 95% of the white woman vote!
Well, except for the 75% of that 95% that doesn’t support Hillary.
DougJ
Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?
No, you’re not.
Look, if someone follows anyone around with a camera for long enough, that person’s going to say something stupid. For whatever reason, singing “bomb, bomb Iran”, agreeing that Hillary Clinton is a “bitch”, or waxing philosophical about your opponent’s possible assassination is not as bad in the eyes of the media as inartfully guessing why small town Americans vote against their own best interests or expressing frustration at the way African-Americans have been treated in this country for generations.
Personally, I don’t get it. I don’t care too much about any of these “big deal” gaffes anyway, but I really don’t get why a gaffe based on a legitimate issue is so much worse than one based on bs.
oh really
I don’t know, are you? The fact remains that it created a diversion from Obama’s real purpose — getting elected. Obama has tried to run a nuanced campaign. I’m sure at this point he’s a lot more cautious about what he says because of the idiotic dust up over his “bitter” comments. He has a monumental task in front of him — getting elected in a country with more than its share of ignorant, prejudiced people. I’m pretty sure he realizes that minimizing controversies over things like whether or not his wife is or isn’t proud of America would be a good thing.
It’s really irrelevant whether you think it’s “complete fucking nonsense/bullshit.” What matters to Obama (and to me) is does it help him or hurt him.
Jeff
Tainting his victory is the only way the Clintons can win, whatever winning means at this point.
1) Free and Fair elections, as long as al Sadr Obama doesn’t win.
2) A government that represents all the people (HRC4Me, HillIs44, AnyoneAgainstHillaryIsASexistPig, etc).
3) A plan to eliminate militias Obama supporters.
4) Ponies!
=====================
He knows he’ll be called “Brutus” by MacAuliffe.
All the more reason to do so. (See also Richardson, Bill)
KC
I dunno, I’ve been kind of bothered by the fact that a friend–an Obama supporter–I was talking to yesterday thought Hillary won the popular vote. I told him only if you ignore caucuses, etc., but he did not seem overly persuaded. He was still pro-Obama of course, but I fear this idea, if not properly or persuasively rebutted, will take hold and be true poison in the general election.
Conservatively Liberal
Thanks for the link! Damn that looks like a blast of a trip to take on a bike. Interesting way to take pics on the fly. Interesting, but crazy! I like how they had problems finding lodging in Texas because of the LDS custody fight there.
I am surprised that he did not try Krazy glue on his split calluses sooner though, that trick has been around for many moons now. Guitarists use it for the same reason.
Enjoy the concert! I saw Rush a few times in the late 70’s & early 80’s, and for a three man routine they were a ‘wall of sound’. I have all of their material (original albums plus cd releases) and two concert T’s from way back when.
While Geddy and Alex are phenomenal musicians, as a guitar player I can really appreciate Neal’s style. Jamming with a drummer like Neal would be an experience that I would never forget.
Dennis - SGMM
If Clinton and the pack of fools surrounding her had devoted the same amount of intellectual energy that they using in their attempt to steal the nomination to winning it we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Just like Bush in Iraq, they fucked up from the start, kept on fucking up, and are now reduced to half-assed arguments that explain how they’re actually winning.
Bob In Pacifica
Regarding Operation Chaos, what’s the difference between Hillary Clinton and Rush Limbaugh?
She’s got a Senate seat and he’s got a boil on his seat.
Bob In Pacifica
Did anyone notice that story in Vanity Fair about Bill Clinton nailing Mondale’s daughter?
oh really
Both sides (in the primary or national election) are always looking for an advantage. The media are looking for anything and everything. Possibly the most idiotic “gaffe” of all is the flag pin issue. Yet, look how much media attention it’s gotten. Old Nash McCabe back in Pennsylvania thinks it’s damn important. Sadly, she’ll cast a vote that expresses her ignorance, but there’s no way to stop that.
No one says these gaffes should matter, but they do to the media and to who knows how many voters. So, the thing to do would be to minimize them, whether they’re based on real issues or bs. That seems self-evident.
I don’t know if Obama is thinking right now he wishes he’d never joined that church or whether he just wishes he were running for president in an America that cared more about the truly important issues. But whatever he’s thinking, I doubt he’s happy to have spent so much time dealing with the issue. And I doubt he thinks it has helped him. The same goes for most of the other “gaffes.”
Today, the microphone is always on; the camera always running. The media continues to degenerate and the American people aren’t getting any smarter. The job of everyone who works for a campaign is to help their candidate or at least, do no harm.
nightjar
We’ve had a passel of messengers like you using various terms to describe Obama as a caricatured deity not to be taken seriously. You’re not a messenger pal but more a rather smarmy rendition of concern troll. And the Saint remark gave you away.
I was politely referring to your own ass, which doesn’t reside at my address.
If there’s one thing EVERY candidate can count on it’s gaffes made by themselves and their surrogates, and every candidate will spend time correcting them. What else is new.
Your concern is touching in a trolly sort of way though.
“MOral Outrage” that’s funny. I would describe it calling out a bullshitter when I see one. Especially one that
thinks it’s clever. In your few remarks today, you’ve managed to highlight most every silly example of Clintonite outrage at why Clinton can win and Obama can’t. Oh but your an Obama supporter, only not a rabid one. Right!
Xenos
It is not just bullshit, it is based on a deliberate misquote of what Michelle Obama said. So the only proper response to this would be a rude discussion of the speakers’ ancestry, grooming habits, sanity, sexual tastes and political affiliations.
dreggas
Considering She said that “she was REALLY proud of her country for the first time in her adult life” deflates the flap, yet again, that was made over this. Of course the right wing and clintonista crowd twisted it. She never said she was not proud of her country but this was the first time she was “REALLY” proud of her country….
DougJ
Well, except for the 75% of that 95% that doesn’t support Hillary.
That 75% isn’t hard working. Those are the arugula eaters.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m not sure which is worse: reading what oh really thinks or reading what oh really thinks Obama thinks.
DougJ
I disagree on the second point. I think the American people *are* getting smarter. Look at what’s happened to Bush’s approval rating.
The fault is almost entirely with the media, not with the voters.
KC
I skimmed much of it and was pretty, well, disappointed. A lot of it was anonymous quotes strung together with speculation. While I may not like what Hillary’s campaign has been doing lately, or some of the things Bill has said recently, I still remember when the press treated a blowjob in the WH as if it were worse than starting a bad war for wrong reasons.
DougJ
A lot of it was anonymous quotes strung together with speculation.
Unlike the stuff commenters write on Ben Smith’s blog.
KC
Exactly.
El Cid
A physical impossibility has appeared in the Universe.
This impossible farm is in Virgina, in the Appalachians, run by two people from Kentucky and Virginia, and with the word Appalachia in its name, and it is run by white people, hard working white people.
And they grow arugula.
RUN FER YER LIVES!!!
DougJ
While I may not like what Hillary’s campaign has been doing lately, or some of the things Bill has said recently, I still remember when the press treated a blowjob in the WH as if it were worse than starting a bad war for wrong reasons.
That’s part of what tees me off about the Clintons so much. People like me were the only damn people in the country who were standing up for them when they were getting run out of town for an extramarital affair. Now, because we believe that the candidate who won more pledged delegates should be the nominee we’re “elitists”, “the far left”, the “MoveOn crowd.”
Fuck you, Bill and Hillary. Don’t piss on the base and tell us it’s raining.
Brachiator
The current NY Times story leads with a great photo of Hillary at a Puerto Rico rally, with a huge Sun Queen placard featured prominently in the background (Clinton Wins Puerto Rico, but Her Fate Is Still Uncertain)
The story also implies that Clinton aides are trying to get Hillary to finally recognize that she has lost, and that to continue will damage both the party and what remains of her political career.
So the only thing that remains is for Clinton to hope for a dirty trick miracle in the form of the mythic Michelle Obama “whitey” tape. Otherwise, Hillary is pretty much done.
DougJ
I regularly buy arugula at a local farmer’s market from hard-working white farmers who live in Appalachia (Tompkins County, NY — officially part of Appalachia). I don’t know if they’ve been to college or not.
Jorge
Obama picking Richardson as his VP would be a slap in the face to the Clinton campaign. And Richardson is so qualified that it is a great choice anyway.
Barry/Guillermo ’08
El Cid
It’s called trickle-down campaignomics.
nightjar
I heart the Hillbilly elitist, theyz my kind of folk.
Daisy Mae, would you pass the Arugula please.
oh really
Just as I suspected: You’re an idiot. The Saint remark referred to Saint McCain, fool. I disagree with Obama on some significant issues, but I think he has great potential. I see Clinton and McCain as being different kinds of disasters for this country. I take Obama very seriously and I want him to win in November. Your take on me may be a product of too much bloggery or simply too little gray matter, but whatever the basis, you couldn’t be more wrong.
I was an Obama delegate to my county convention and I’m working for him. I very much want him to win the election. I assume you’re just working on being an ass on the Internet.
It’s always a little sad watching people pretend they know things they haven’t a clue about. When you have no idea what you’re talking about, you should keep you mouth closed.
“Concern troll” has obviously become the last refuge of the weak-minded. If you disagree with someone, you call them a concern troll. Kind of like the Right Wingers call people cowards and traitors. It’s just shorthand for you have nothing worthwhile to say.
dreggas
Face it, they used you and “moved on”. It’s not a surprise just typical of them.
dreggas
holy shit, i just watched a guy get kicked off the top of a tractor trailer onto the parking lot below then have another guy do a back flip onto him…I know it’s wrestling but there’s no way you don’t feel that.
Cain
His tastes have really gone ghetto then since then. Eleanor looks pretty classy.
cain
Cain
I figured you would appreciate that! He’s a hardcore rider. Before that he road his bicycle through Africa, chain smoking the whole time. :-)
cain
DougJ
Face it, they used you and “moved on”. It’s not a surprise just typical of them.
But now we should support them because Appalachians and Puerto Ricans like them.
sunny
Mondale can’t be happy.
theturtlemoves
Seeing Rush in four hours? So, that’d be the Clark County Amphitheater up by Portland, eh? Saw them there on the first swing through last summer. I was going to go again this summer, but a family vacation later this month is draining any funds that would have been spent seeing my favorite band. Say hello to the boys for me, Cain. I’ll listen to the live CD that just came out while wearing my baseball jersey from last summer and wishing I was there…
nightjar
Here’s what you said jackass. In one sentence. Now Fuck off.
Otto Man
I believe it’s actually an old episode of “The Jeffersons” and the anti-Obama crowd is just too retarded to tell the difference.
oh really
You may as well get your facts straight. Unfortunately, that was not her initial statement. If you want clarification of that, just go to YouTube and search for “Michelle Obama” and “proud.”
As I said, I don’t care what she says or what she’s proud of; she’s not the candidate. But if it hurts Obama it’s a problem.
It seems like the problem here is the difference between what should matter and what does matter in elections in this country. Obama has got to get elected based on what does matter (to the media and Nash McCabes). Otherwise, the campaign wouldn’t have spent so much time on this crap.
Dennis - SGMM
If Gore had taken Puerto Rico in the general in 2000 then the course of history would have changed.
Adam
Yeah, Drudge needs to get John’s blog engine running over there. Commenting here is almost like scribbling prose on the Mona Lisa. With a Sharpie.
dreggas
I saw it, I saw the original clip, she said it was the first time she was really proud of her country. Let me guess you also believe she said she wouldn’t vote for Hillary too?
DougJ
If Gore had taken Puerto Rico in the general in 2000 then the course of history would have changed.
Given that it’s his home state, he really should have won. He has no one to blame but himself. Maybe if he’d taken Naomi Wolf’s advice and learned to speak Spanish, he would have done better.
But hindsight is 20-20 my friends.
Bob In Pacifica
The question isn’t whether Bill did or didn’t do Mondale’s daughter. The question is why it’s coming out now.
dreggas
No matter the reason it’s obvious that THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR HILLARY!
Conservatively Liberal
In other words, she is hoping for a ‘Hail Whitey’ pass from the right sideline to the end zone, where she is waiting to catch it.
Hard core rider is an understatement. I also ride my mountain bike around town, smoking like a train. If you are going to have bad habits, try to have a few good ones too!
Balance in life is everything. ;)
Dennis - SGMM
Because people are sick of the Clintons?
DougJ
Does Obama’a loss today prove that he can’t win the “big islands”, the ones that really count in the general?
oh really
Ah, the Philosopher King again. But who’s the jackass. This time, like any cretin with a point to make you’ve selectively quoted me. By leaving out the first part of the sentence you make it seem like the whole sentence is about Obama, which of course it wasn’t. The real quote is:
Amazing. I went from Bill to Michelle Obama to the Saint. Three different people in only one sentence. Obviously, that’s more than you can handle.
Let’s see, who in this campaign is constantly referred to as the “Saint.” Oh, my, that would be John McCain wouldn’t it? And I’ve read lots of comments (on various sites) about getting at McCain through his wife Cindy. And first I wrote about Bill and then Michelle and then the Saint. Is it starting to sink in yet. You, obviously looking for a fight (so adult), couldn’t bother to read carefully or try to figure out what I meant. You just started slamming away on the keyboard with your foul mouth and tiny brain. Embarrassing.
I’d never refer to Obama as the “Saint,” because not only does the word not apply, but it’s one I and many others disdainfully reserve for McCain. I guess you must have missed people referring to McCain as Saint McCain.
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear enough for you, Nutjar. Sadly, your brain and vocabulary are just too limited for an adult discussion. I guess that’s what happens when you’re always on “outrage patrol.”
I realize this may be hard for you to grasp in that cubby hole of a world you occupy, but the reason I referred to McCain in that sentence is because getting at candidates through their spouses has become common and it’s not limited to one party’s candidates. But then I’d already stated that, hadn’t I? And I don’t approve of any of it.
Of course, a guy like you, who can sniff out a phony a mile away never needs to stop and think if a statement could be interpreted more than one way. Nope. Not a chance.
Just remember the next time: Saint probably means McCain. If I wasn’t clear enough for you, you have my deepest apologies. I realize it would be foolish to expect an apology from you, but the next time you reproduce a quote, at least have the integrity to reproduce all of it. And by the way, (I think it was in grade school that I learned this) when you leave out words in a quote, at least use an ellipsis to show that you’re leaving something out.
dreggas
more likely because now that the “Clintons” have pretty much written their own political death warrant, and given that Obama is winning they are helping put nails in the coffin by shooting down the vetted myth.
Dennis - SGMM
So it’s like Snotty Scotty releasing his memoir. Now that the mastodon lies wheezing on its side everyone who was trampled will share their story. I’m just an old paranoid; I thought that the Clintons were shit by ’94 and Bush was shit from the get-go.
ThymeZone
I count at least four of us who think so, so far. You, me,DougJ and Xenos.
Of course it is bullshit, and a misrepresentation of what she said and meant.
Me expectation is that in November we will be looking at this landslide victory for Obama against Magoo, and we’ll be wondering why anyone paid any attention to this horsecrap back in the spring.
ThymeZone
Sigh. “Me expectation.” No, not a pissy leprechaun.
Just pissy. “My expectation” is what I meant.
nightjar
You weren’t any where near clear enough oh really. Let me make this clear though. If you are truly an Obama supporter (and I doubt it), please don’t be. Your brilliant insights into Obama’s gaffes are old news and your concern is smarmy bullshit. Maybe it’s just me but people who wallow in meaninglessness are usually a drag on everything, whether by design or not. And unlike you I don’t have the resource of a huge intellect as you’ve so graciously pointed out. I’m pretty sure (could be wrong) I’ve chatted with you before under a different handle and ended up in the same place. So I’ll just say I think your full of shit, in my Neanderthal kind of way. And once again fuck off.
oh really
Apparently, you miss my point. It doesn’t matter what we think of a statement. It is how it plays. It doesn’t take any great leap to imagine how a statement like that is going to play in this country. The point is to avoid that.
Samantha Power realized instantly that she’d made a mistake; not necessarily in her assessment of Clinton, but in voicing that opinion. The result was that Obama lost a valuable advisor.
oh really
Apparently, you miss my point. It doesn’t matter what we think of a statement. It is how it plays. It doesn’t take any great leap to imagine how a statement like that is going to play in this country. The point is to avoid that.
Samantha Power realized instantly that she’d made a mistake; not necessarily in her assessment of Clinton, but in voicing that opinion. The result was that Obama lost a valuable adviser.
If that is too subtle, then it probably isn’t a good idea for you to advise a candidate or act as a surrogate. With the likes of Tweety, Rush, et al. out there and the advent of YouTube, statements like Michelle’s are going to work against a candidate. As I stated earlier, by simply saying “I’ve never been more proud of my country…” she makes her point and avoids the crap. Apparently, she doesn’t say that anymore — that’s probably because it doesn’t work as campaign rhetoric in 2008 America.
oh really
I guess you’re really happy being wrong as often as possible. No, I’ve never had the pleasure of chatting with you before (and I’ll avoid it in the future).
I guess your approach is best. Accuse, insult, avoid thinking, use foul language, and make an ass of yourself. A real prescription for success in any venue. In the Nutjab cubby hole only people who think (???) like you are acceptable. That sounds like a prescription for an electoral landslide — for your opponent. Brilliant.
I stand in awe.
oh really
I guess you’re really happy being wrong as often as possible. No, I’ve never had the pleasure of chatting with you before (and I’ll avoid it in the future).
I guess your approach is best. Accuse, insult, avoid thinking, use foul language, and make an ass of yourself. A real prescription for success in any venue. In the Nutjab cubby hole only people who think (???) like you are acceptable. That sounds like a prescription for an electoral landslide — for your opponent. Brilliant.
I stand in awe. And you are still an idiot. You can fuck off if you want to, I don’t really care.
nightjar
BIG Yawn!
Kevin
Please avoid “chatting” with the rest of us as well.
oh really
DougJ, I wish I could agree, but given how long it took millions of Americans to sour on Bush, I wouldn’t say that was a sign of much more than very slow learning. A “smarter” American voter also fails to explain why with McCain running on Bush’s foreign policy and tax cut domestic policy (complete with a “screw you” health care plan) he’s polling so close to Obama and Clinton.
We look at this differently. We probably both have similar opinions about the quality of the media, but in the chicken-egg contest, I’d say the media are bad because the people allow them to be. If the American people were truly hungry for good news coverage they could ignore the current garbage and unless the MSM changed they’d all go belly up.
oh really
No problem, Kevin. I’ll comment if I choose to and you just don’t respond. That way we won’t be “chatting” and we’ll both be happy. On the other hand, if you own the Internet, please tell me.
Kevin
I agree, completely.
bago
CATFIGHT!