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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2008 / Puerto Rico Open Thread

Puerto Rico Open Thread

by John Cole|  June 1, 20082:34 pm| 152 Comments

This post is in: Election 2008

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Clinton wins big. Nothing changes.

Terry McAuliffe is arguing that votes were stolen yesterday in Michigan, and this is about a broader principle- democracy.

Because as we all know, democracy is best represented when only one person is on the ballot. Just ask Kim Jong Il and Saddam Hussein.

Just go away, Harold and Terry.

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Reader Interactions

152Comments

  1. 1.

    rob!

    June 1, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    even that hack McAuliffe seemed to back away from talk about keeping this going past the end of the week while talking to Olbermann and Matthews.

    chuck todd’s theory that Obama will rack up a bunch of SDs so Montana and Daokta can put him over the top sounds good to me.

  2. 2.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 1, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Still out there creating massive ill-will for absolutely nothing? Wow, whatever in the world could be the point of that?

  3. 3.

    Ted

    June 1, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Because as we all know, democracy is best represented when only one person is on the ballot. Just ask Kim Jong Il and Saddam Hussein.

    Hey! Kim Jong Il’s and Hussein’s opponents VOLUNTARILY took their names OFF the ballot. Nobody FORCED them to! So shut up!

  4. 4.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    I just want you all to know that I just had a secret ballot which my name was on, and you had a perfect opportunity to put your name on it too, and you didn’t, and so now I am President.

  5. 5.

    Ted

    June 1, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Can I just say that I love Obama’s decision to pre-defile the site of the GOP convention with his evil Democrat vibes. He knows his speech there will help ensure that during the GOP gala, vending machines will fail to dispense snacks but keep money, toilets will stop up and overflow, and the attendees will keep wondering where that awful arugula smell everywhere is coming from.

  6. 6.

    rob!

    June 1, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    on a separate, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones is an absolutely worthless, dishonest piece of hacktastic shit.

  7. 7.

    Ninerdave

    June 1, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Just watched Chris and Stephanie Tubbs Jones the new Clinton meme seems to be:

    1) Hillary had delegates stolen from her in MI at the RBC.
    2) Nobody voted for Obama in MI because he screwed up and didn’t put his name on the ballot.
    3) When asked about the math, bring up that votes are not being counted and couch it in hyper patriotic rhetoric.

  8. 8.

    Ninerdave

    June 1, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    I just want you all to know that I just had a secret ballot which my name was on, and you had a perfect opportunity to put your name on it too, and you didn’t, and so now I am President.

    Since you are not Hillary or McCain, I am ok with this.

  9. 9.

    Carnacki

    June 1, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    I’m looking forward to the dozens of Daily Kos blog posts and national stories about all the Appalachians in Puerto Rico responsible for Clinton’s landslide win. /snark.

  10. 10.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I really hope this thing cools down, but it is beginning to seem that this whole “vote stolen” canard is about destroying Obama, pure and simple. Tainting his victory is the only way the Clintons can win, whatever winning means at this point. Honestly though, this is really the fault of the super delegates. They need to make their decisions as soon as possible, whether they are for Clinton or Obama, pure and simple.

  11. 11.

    Quiddity

    June 1, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    We must count all the votes! All of them. Those from Florida and Michigan. And from Hillary’s senate race in ’06, because those were votes just like all the others. Not to mention Hillary’s race in 2000. Just as meaningful. Icky Ickes tells me so. It’s the will of the people, as the charming Lanny Davis constantly reminds us.

    But you say, Obama wasn’t on the New York senate ballot in 2000 and 2006. Well, just like Michigan, it was his chioce to stay off the ballot, wasn’t it?

    When you add it all up, a good case can be made that Hillary has received more votes than there are bosons in the universe. Case closed.

    Anyway, Obama shouln’t get the nomination because he’s been playing the race card on Ferraro for months. Pulling it out of his sleeve. Shuffling the deck so that it’s the second-dealt card. Marking a corner with his fingernail so he can see where it is on the table. He’s a sneaky Muslim, that’s for sure.

  12. 12.

    crw

    June 1, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    There’s an easy counter for the vote stolen, just like Gore in 2000 meme:

    Al Gore endorses Obama and calls the comparison offensive bullshit. Will he? I don’t know.

  13. 13.

    Ninerdave

    June 1, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Keith:

    “This just in, fully 100% of Hillary Clinton voters in Puerto Rico will not be voting for Barack Obama in November. Of course they will also not be voting for McCain either. Stephanie Tubbs Jones is going to kill me for that.”

    Lawlz!

  14. 14.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Well, I do think that there is a point to Jeralyn’s recent post, that super delegates ought to consider the popular vote margin from certified elections. However, that does not mean that all supers will support the outcome supported by Jeralyn. After all, many supers are from states with caucuses. They no doubt might feel that Obama deserves their vote because he received the popular support of caucus goers in their respective states. I think both Clinton and Obama supporters (myself) are kidding themselves still if they think the decision for undecideds will be easy at this point.

  15. 15.

    Ted

    June 1, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Al Gore endorses Obama and calls the comparison offensive bullshit. Will he? I don’t know.

    I doubt it. He knows he’ll be called “Brutus” by MacAuliffe.

  16. 16.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    The reason why the SDs aren’t going to flock to the popular vote argument is that it’s muddled. You have to compare different types of contests and somehow say that they’re equal. Even with the muddiness, once the 4 caucus estimates are added, either Obama will have a lead or Clinton will have one in the range of like 40,000 votes. That’s not the overwhelming argument she needs.

  17. 17.

    crw

    June 1, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    I doubt it. He knows he’ll be called “Brutus” by MacAuliffe.

    Nah. The Clintons are so beyond that now. He’ll be called Lee Harvey Oswald.

  18. 18.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    zzyzx,

    I think you’re right, but it’s still an argument that supers will probably consider, among others.

  19. 19.

    Scotty

    June 1, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    If Obama wanted to be a real dick he could call a press conference and say ‘Puerto Rico doesn’t count, they don’t even have a say in November.’

  20. 20.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    I really hope this thing cools down, but it is beginning to seem that this whole “vote stolen” canard is about destroying Obama, pure and simple. Tainting his victory is the only way the Clintons can win, whatever winning means at this poin

    I’ve rattled this around my brain for some time now. At first it seemed like just a ploy to buck up the hilbot troops and to stay in the news cycle. But more and more it is looking like something darker — a kind of willful suspension from reality. These are smart and experienced people who have apparently convinced themselves they have a valid argument making righteous the absurd.

    It reminds me of a while back, I kept getting calls from a bill collector who was looking to harass a delinquent consumer. The only problem was they were looking for someone other than me. Apparently from a person who’d had my phone number previously. At first I informed them they had the wrong person and they said OK we’ll not call anymore. But they did, over and over again. They informed me they had decided I was lying to them, and they were going to do bad things and I would argue with them how they had no case and we’d have this big court trial. Then one day it struck how really silly the whole thing was because I wasn’t the person with the debt. I had a good laugh and changed my phone number.

  21. 21.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    I just saw the following from comments in the Politico:

    She will probably wait for the release of the Michelle Obama Whitey rant tape Fox News just reported has landed in the hands of a network news agency. Maybe then we can move beyond Obama and his non stop parade of racist loonies.

    Another commentor saw it apparently; Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show. Jeez, I hope for Obama’s sake this isn’t true. If it is, we better welcome candidate Hillary Clinton to the top spot.

  22. 22.

    jrg

    June 1, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Terry McAuliffe is arguing that votes were stolen yesterday in Michigan, and this is about a broader principle- democracy.

    Yes, it’s time we bring Democracy to Michigan. Clearly economic sanctions are not working. This move only strengthened HRC’s foreign policy credibility.

    Hillary did not risk her ass in Bosnia to lose to the misogynists here in the U.S. that did not vote for her. She did not single-handedly negotiate peace in Ireland just to come back home to a country where a woman cannot ever be president. Misogynist.

  23. 23.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    June 1, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Anyway, Obama shouln’t get the nomination because he’s been playing the race card stupid card on Ferraro for months.

    fixt.

    Obama’s campaign has been grossly disrespectful to stupid people everywhere. That alone should disqualify him from the job. We need a President who will treat us all like morons, because that is what we have worked hard for all our lives, and dang it, we deserve it!

    /Ferraro

  24. 24.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Another commentor saw it apparently; Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show. Jeez, I hope for Obama’s sake this isn’t true. If it is, we better welcome candidate Hillary Clinton to the top spot.

    WTF! Hillary has already been first lady and Michelle is not running for POTUS. So what.

  25. 25.

    rob!

    June 1, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    i think that Michelle “Whitey” tape is made by the same guy who’s peddling the “proof there are aliens” tape.

    Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show

    …then you KNOW its not real!

  26. 26.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Another commentor saw it apparently; Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show.

    Oh yea, the tape was found in Al Capones vault.

  27. 27.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Another commentor saw it apparently; Geraldo Rivera was discussing it on his show.

    Oh yea, the tape was found in Al Capones vault.

    Clearly you have not visited Capones’ vault.

  28. 28.

    John Cole

    June 1, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Count me in the “show me the tape or STFU” crowd.

  29. 29.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    My guess, if it exists at all, is that it’s her quoting someone else, e.g. “We need to move beyond our divisions. I heard someone call a man ‘Whitey’ the other day and that’s the sort of thing we need to stop.”

  30. 30.

    Ted

    June 1, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    i think that Michelle “Whitey” tape is made by the same guy who’s peddling the “proof there are aliens” tape.

    Anyone seen that nutjob Larry Silver’s blog? The guy who insists he KNOWS Obama did crack in 1999, and claims he had “oral sex” with Obama in the back of a limo? Guy’s blog gets more comments than Atrios (though with only about a post per day). He’s got a YouTube up of what he claims is Obama parading an erection in front of reporters on his campaign plane. You watch it, and you can’t really figure out what the hell they’re talking about. What it actually looks like is the passengers (Obama included) being told to sit down (probably by the crew, but you don’t hear it), the press urging each other to do so, and Obama making a defiant ‘I will continue to stand’ show as a joke.

    Hopefully if this Whitey thing exists, it’s a similar complete misreading of some video.

  31. 31.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Count me in the “F*** your tape” and “STFU anyway you bunch of pathetic losers” crowd.

  32. 32.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Count me in the “show me the tape or STFU” crowd.

    Fuck it, I emailed Ben Smith at the Politico to see if he has heard anything in journalism circles to indicate whether or not anything his commentators are saying is true about the tape. I’m not expecting to hear anything back, but I just hate that this crap is floating around out there. I’m also beginning to believe that Obama needs to start hitting back on the idea that he stole the election/lost the popular vote. By staying silent, or at least not addressing these issues in some way, I’m not certain he’s helping himself.

  33. 33.

    4tehlulz

    June 1, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    I predict many pixels and much overdup on this “tape”.

  34. 34.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Clearly you have not visited Capones’ vault

    LOL, I guess not, but I’ve visited Geraldo’s fantastical imagination regularly displayed on his TV shows.

  35. 35.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    LOL, I guess not, but I’ve visited Geraldo’s fantastical imagination regularly displayed on his TV shows.

    Poor you.

  36. 36.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Reportedly, in the new tape Michelle Obama is audible clearly saying “F*** it! There are no words on this! I can’t do it! I’ll do it live. DO IT LIVE!!! F*** IT!!!”

  37. 37.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    John Cole Says:

    Count me in the “show me the tape or STFU” crowd.

    Me too, if this was really out there it would have come out by now.

  38. 38.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Obama’s campaign has been grossly disrespectful to stupid people everywhere.

    Typical elitist. You’re not being inclusive here. What about the closet racists? Huh? What about all of the old jerks who fell asleep on the job years ago and now find themselves reporting to a boss who is younger than they are? These people deserve to be represented.
    Democrats must select a nominee whose close ties with the banks and the military-industrial complex guarantees that the system that has served us so well will continue.

  39. 39.

    jake

    June 1, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    The only thing more fucked up than Camp Clintoon is the fucking Texas tourism ad that causes the page to become five million feet wide. Bra & Panties Media stuffs its bra and panties!

  40. 40.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Count me in the “show me the tape or STFU” crowd.

    I don’t think that’s how it’s done. Such valuable campaign material can’t just be released. It’s much more effective if everyone floats rumors about it, the blogs chatter about it, and then, when the time is right for maximum damage — blam — it comes out. The question is will it be Hillary who drops the bomb (through nine layers of surrogates) or the GOP, which may currently only be two or three layers of surrogates away from the Clinton campaign?

    I’m a mildly positive/partly lesser-evil Obama supporter (Hillary is one heck of an evil.), but if this tape really exists, Obama can expect a huge hit. Ranting about “whitey” might work in the Marcus Garvey BTA Party, but it’s not likely to go over well nationally. And it won’t matter that it’s Obama’s wife and not him doing the talking.

    It seems like spouses have become more and more important as ways to get at candidates. Bill has been an embarrassment, Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife. Someday, the ideal candidate will be single or have a spouse who fell into a coma at the age of five.

  41. 41.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Wait — you’re saying it would be less controversial for a candidate who married his wife when she was 5?

  42. 42.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    I have a bombshell video of Hillary going down on Geraldine Ferraro which I will release a week from Tuesday.

  43. 43.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    I don’t think that’s how it’s done. Such valuable campaign material can’t just be released. It’s much more effective if everyone floats rumors about it, the blogs chatter about it, and then, when the time is right for maximum damage—blam—it comes out. The question is will it be Hillary who drops the bomb (through nine layers of surrogates) or the GOP, which may currently only be two or three layers of surrogates away from the Clinton campaign?

    That’s exactly the issue. And, even if it’s not true, that it appears to be hitting circles beyond the occasional net commentator isn’t exactly good for Obama. I think Larry Johnson, who appears to have first floated the story, needs to do a little more explaining.

  44. 44.

    crw

    June 1, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    I don’t think that’s how it’s done. Such valuable campaign material can’t just be released. It’s much more effective if everyone floats rumors about it, the blogs chatter about it, and then, when the time is right for maximum damage—blam—it comes out. The question is will it be Hillary who drops the bomb (through nine layers of surrogates) or the GOP, which may currently only be two or three layers of surrogates away from the Clinton campaign?

    Right. Which is why the GOP is openly worrying about a Democratic landslide in November and Rupert fucking Murdoch is projecting Obama’s going to win and all but admits McCain is the worst candidate the GOP has been saddled with since Barry Goldwater.

  45. 45.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    It seems like spouses have become more and more important as ways to get at candidates. Bill has been an embarrassment, Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife

    What the fuck are you talking about? Michelle said what? Going after a candidates wife is wingnut Malkinite territory. Newsflash” unless they have video of Michelle cleaning an AK 47 and wearing a Che Lives! teeshirt whilst wistleling the Soviet National Anthem, it will just be another feeding frenzy news cycle circle jerk led by Tweety and his minions. Obama’s poll numbers will drop 2 points before they rebound by 4. Michelle is not BArack, like Wright is not Barack, nor Ayers. People don’t much care what a possible First Lady says. And please shove the “Saint” shit in a dark smelly place.

  46. 46.

    KRK

    June 1, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    KC Says:

    I just hate that this crap is floating around out there.

    Then stop talking about it. This is like the third or fourth thread where you’ve tried to get folks to (a) reassure you, or (b) join in your concerns. I’m starting to believe it’s the latter.

    I’m also beginning to believe that Obama needs to start hitting back on the idea that he stole the election/lost the popular vote. By staying silent, or at least not addressing these issues in some way, I’m not certain he’s helping himself.

    And I’m certain that the Obama campaign is more on top of managing his message than people who worry about having read in a comment on a news/politics blog that something was discussed on Geraldo that might confirm Larry Johnson’s promises to the yahoos at NoQ about an Obama campaign-killing video.

  47. 47.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 1, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    What the fuck are you talking about? Michelle said what? Going after a candidates wife is wingnut Malkinite territory. Newsflash” unless they have video of Michelle cleaning an AK 47 and wearing a Che Lives! teeshirt whilst wistleling the Soviet National Anthem, it will just be another feeding frenzy news cycle circle jerk led by Tweety and his minions. Obama’s poll numbers will drop 2 points before they rebound by 4. Michelle is not BArack, like Wright is not Barack, nor Ayers. People don’t much care what a possible First Lady says.

    I suppose Michelle Obama could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what she decided to do was liberate the workers of the world before her husband was in public life.

  48. 48.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 1, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    I have a bombshell video of Hillary going down on Geraldine Ferraro

    I threw up a little in my mouth.

  49. 49.

    KRK

    June 1, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    KC Says:

    And, even if it’s not true, that it appears to be hitting circles beyond the occasional net commentator isn’t exactly good for Obama. I think Larry Johnson, who appears to have first floated the story, needs to do a little more explaining.

    Are you really missing your role in this, “even if it’s not true”? Rather than having any explaining to do, I think Larry has you right where he wants you. Not that you’re alone.

  50. 50.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    I don’t think that’s how it’s done. Such valuable campaign material can’t just be released. It’s much more effective if everyone floats rumors about it, the blogs chatter about it, and then, when the time is right for maximum damage—blam—it comes out.

    You’re forgetting the opposite problem though, where people talk it up so much that the original video is bound to disappoint. This rumor has moved from, “There’s an anti-white rant by Michelle,” to, “There’s a ‘whitey’ style video from Michelle,” to, “Michelle was caught on video blasting, ‘Whitey.,” to, “Michelle was caught on video tape screaming, ‘Kill Whitey!'”

    So now if it comes out and it’s something like her talking about how whites have historically oppressed blacks, the general reaction will be, “That’s what we’ve been waiting for?”

  51. 51.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Hillary is currently regurgitating the same ole corrupt shit that “we are winning the popular vote” and since Obama won the delegates all is currently even steven . Somebody put me out my misery, puhleeease.

  52. 52.

    johninpt

    June 1, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Don’t you see?!!! If the tape of Michelle never comes out, it will be because Don Obama had everyone connected with it whacked! Wouldn’t be the first time, from what I hear.

  53. 53.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Are you really missing your role in this, “even if it’s not true”?

    No, I realized my “role” after clicking “send,” but it was too late to stop the comment from going through. I’ll get back to watching Geraldo now.

  54. 54.

    jibeaux

    June 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Has anyone ever, in the history of mankind, said “whitey” in a non-ironic, non-tongue-in-cheek way? And why exactly is it good strategic waiting to talk about this alleged video for a month and unveil it just as the last two freakin’ states are about to vote, when all hope is lost? This video does not exist.

  55. 55.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    So now if it comes out and it’s something like her talking about how whites have historically oppressed blacks, the general reaction will be, “That’s what we’ve been waiting for?”

    Even Lambert at Corrente sees this.

    And if Johnson’s video is discredited, then the argument will be made that all criticisms of Obama are discredited. And this time, hordes of OFB instead of hordes of freepers — granted, this is a distinction without a difference — will be all over us for it.

  56. 56.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    jib – no, no one has, which is why I’m so amused by the concept. It’s easy to say that a video exists, harder to find it, but yeah, “Whitey,” seems to be a term that white racists think blacks use to describe them.

  57. 57.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    I can’t believe we’ve 20+ comments based on something KC saw in the comments on Ben Smith’s blog.

  58. 58.

    carsick

    June 1, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    As we all know, democracy is best represented by a territory’s primary. Especially one that has no ability to effect the general election with their votes.

  59. 59.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Here’s one of the comments about the “whitey tape” I found on Ben Smith’s blog


    MICHELLE OBAMA VIDEO TAPE COMING OUT WITH HER CALLING WHITE PEOPLE RACIAL EPITHET!!!!! CAN’T WAIT TO SEE IT!!! BYE BYE BARACK X

    Pretty convincing stuff, huh?

  60. 60.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.

  61. 61.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    DougJ Says:

    I can’t believe we’ve 20+ comments based on something KC saw in the comments on Ben Smith’s blog.

    Me neither, but the instructions do say
    Hot air and Ill-informed banter.

  62. 62.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.

    Or, you can just watch Geraldo talk about it.

  63. 63.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.

    I guess you’re right, but mining the comments of a blog that is itself mostly about hair-cuts and waffles just seems depressing to me.

  64. 64.

    Ninerdave

    June 1, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Actually I just read this tape is in the hands of MSNBC. They and the rest of the liberal Obama protecting media are making sure this tape is not seen. You see that are backing his plan of turning the US into a Muslim religious state, exterminating all white men, enslaving all the white women, the resurrecting Khrushchev and turning the country over to him.

  65. 65.

    Anticorium

    June 1, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    For those who want a preview of this tape’s revelation, please cue up the sixth-season Simpsons episode “Homer Badman”. I for one am preparing to be completely and irrevocably alienated by what Michelle Obama thinks of “Whitey’s … sweet can– that s– sweet can–“.

  66. 66.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 1, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Re: Tubbs Jones et al.

    In about a week someone should pull the good Congresswoman aside and ask her, “Are you with us or against us? Are you a Democrat who supports the nominee or are you trying to tear down the party? Do you realize when you talk shit you hurt all Democrats? Do you realize that Clinton isn’t going to help you now that it’s over?”

    Obama has been more than polite to H. Clinton considering her behavior in this campaign. But Tubbs Jones should know enough to realize this is over and it’s getting personal, and Tubbs Jones is pissing off the people she’s going to be looking to for money and support.

  67. 67.

    Jake

    June 1, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Heh. Check out Drudge.

    Don’t worry. He doesn’t have anything up about this phantom video. He just seems to be the only one who understands what this victory in PR means for Clinton.

  68. 68.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    This whole “video” discussion is some sad, middle-school a** sh*t.

  69. 69.

    zzyzx

    June 1, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Or, you can just watch Geraldo talk about it.

    I’ll save you the link to Noquarter and go there myself to paste what Geraldo said:

    i will give you a hundred bucks if it is true. i don’t believe it is true. michael brown, you respond

    (capitalization from noquarter. That makes you look even more reliable)

    And DougJ, balloonjuice is the site where I think we have to push back. This gets enough mainstream attention that it would be a jumping off point.

  70. 70.

    Kevin

    June 1, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Drudge has what is just about the worst-formatted website I have seen in years.

  71. 71.

    Mary

    June 1, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    KC, I’ve gone to Politico and have seen references to the tape from a commenter I’d call VERY unreliable. First s/he said that it was mentioned on Geraldo, then that it was all over Fox News. Someone else in the same thread says that they’re watching Fox and nothing has been said, and there’s nothing on their web site.

    And IF Geraldo said anything, I’ll bet you that it was a reference to “blog rumors” about such a tape.

    If you stare too long at rat-fuckers, you can turn into a rat-fucker. You might feel a hell of a lot better if you ignore every last anonymous rumour, OK?

  72. 72.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Wait—you’re saying it would be less controversial for a candidate who married his wife when she was 5?

    Obviously not. The idea is she/he goes into a coma at five and then marries at 21. There’s not that much you can dig up on a five year old — at least not today. In a decade or two every five-year-old will be videoing every second of every day from the age of two when they get their first cell phones. Then, it will be a different story.

  73. 73.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Speaking of idiotic stories, Halperin is still pimping “Wafflegate”.

    God help us all.

  74. 74.

    ThymeZone

    June 1, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Just go away, Harold and Terry.

    No no, as we all know, the Kamp Krusty Kounseling Kommittee, also known be the acronym “demi”, teaches us that these people are Just Doing Their Jobs.

    You know, just like all the Collossal Fuckups and Shitstains in politics in government are Just Doing Their Jobs.

    So Get Off Their Fookin Backs.

  75. 75.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    I guess you’re right, but mining the comments of a blog that is itself mostly about hair-cuts and waffles just seems depressing to me.

    Jesus, “mining”? I saw the follwing comment, which I block quoted earlier, when I was reading a Ben Smith entry which was linked to by Kos:

    She will probably wait for the release of the Michelle Obama Whitey rant tape Fox News just reported has landed in the hands of a network news agency. Maybe then we can move beyond Obama and his non stop parade of racist loonies.

    After that, I noted another commentator saw Geraldo discussing it on Fox, then asked if anyone knew where this shit was coming from and if it was true. I was hoping for an answer, but should have just googled it first. Didn’t mean to spread shit with a dull knife.

  76. 76.

    Cain

    June 1, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Mwahahaha.. Rush concert in 4 hours!! I’ll be spending the evening rockin out. I leave you with Between the Wheels as commentary of the past 7 years:

    To live between a rock and a hard place
    In between time
    Cruising in prime time
    Soaking up the cathode rays

    To live between the wars in our time
    Living in real time
    Holding the good time
    Holding on to yesterdays

    You know how that rabbit feels
    Going under your speeding wheels
    Bright images flashing by
    Like windshields towards a fly
    Frozen in the fatal climb
    But the wheels of time
    Just pass you by
    Wheels can take you around
    Wheels can cut you down
    We can go from boom to bust
    From dreams to a bowl of dust
    We can fall from rockets’ red glare
    Down to “Brother can you spare…”
    Another war
    Another wasteland
    And another lost generation

    you can get the rest of the lyrics here

    BTW Conservative Liberal, you should check out the pics of Neal riding his bike.. 25,000 miles on the last tour.. check em here

    cain

  77. 77.

    carsick

    June 1, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Newsflash!!!!:
    I saw a comment on Michelle Malkin’s blog that said a video is soon to come out with McCain saying he needed roofies the last time he convinced his wife to have sex with him. AT A REPUBLICAN FUNDRAISER AND CAUGHT ON TAPE!!!!!

  78. 78.

    Cain

    June 1, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Oh, I’m sorry are we still talking about kill whitey..? I should have stayed on topic. So sorry. I hope I sound insincere. heh.

    cain

  79. 79.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Newsflash!:
    I saw a comment on Michelle Malkin’s blog that said a video is soon to come out with McCain saying he needed roofies the last time he convinced his wife to have sex with him. AT A REPUBLICAN FUNDRAISER AND CAUGHT ON TAPE!!

    I’d fuckin’ pay to see that tape.

  80. 80.

    Jake

    June 1, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    From Kos (main page):

    By the way, in the real popular vote, including Florida which the DNC now accepts, and excluding Michigan, which the DNC now rejects, and including the caucus states (which Clinton and her camp want to disenfranchise), the numbers currently are Obama +183,067.

    That includes the 76 percent of Puerto Rico that has reported.

    So even with this bullshit measure, Obama still leads. And it is bullshit,

    Indeed. And yet, the fucking charade continues.

  81. 81.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    What the fuck are you talking about? Michelle said what?

    It’s not a question of going after Michelle. When someone runs for office in this country today, he or she and every surrogate has to know that everything one says will be used in any way possible to damage the candidate. So, when an obviously intelligent woman like Michelle Obama stands up in front of an audience (on more than one occasion) and says something about being proud of the United States for the first time in her life (or even adult life), that qualifies as an incredibly stupid thing to say. Even if it’s true, and I don’t much care about Michelle Obama’s thoughts and opinions, she could have said the same thing in a way that wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow. “I’ve never been more proud of my country….” The addition of the single word “more” would have made her statement unassailable. If the idea is to win, then making statements that on a moment’s reflection any idiot knows will be ammunition for one’s opponent(s) is just plain stupid.

    it will just be another feeding frenzy news cycle circle jerk led by Tweety and his minions.

    Exactly, and for any candidates not in the race because their masochism demands they suffer, the point is to minimize those circle jerks. Like it or not, they hurt.

    And please shove the “Saint” shit in a dark smelly place.

    Obviously, you’re in your Philosopher King mode today. I’d honor your request, but I don’t know your address. Instead of attacking the messenger, why not consider what someone is saying, instead of what you wish the world was like. By the way, if every time a stink was raised about one of these minor issues, Obama’s poll numbers fell by two points and then rebounded by 4, he’d be thirty or forty points ahead. Sadly, that’s not the way the real world works. And that’s not what his poll numbers show.

    I’m an Obama support (though hardly rabid), and I’d like to see him win by being both honest and smart. There are things he can control and he alone can answer for, and I’d hope he doesn’t have to spend any time trying to patch wounds inflicted by careless and foolish statements made by surrogates, whether his wife or Samantha Power, someone I admire. It’s arguable whether “monster” is the right word to describe HRC, but Power knew the second the words had left her mouth that she shouldn’t have said them.

    Note: if you work on your moral outrage a little, you’ll fit in nicely over on NoQuarter, though I should caution you in their little make belief universe Obama is the worst human being in the history of the world.

  82. 82.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Indeed. And yet, the fucking charade continues.

    Um, this argument about the popular vote has been made now by the Clinton camp for two weeks. Where has Obama been on it? It’s his job (or the job of his people) to rebut it, if he can.

  83. 83.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    So now if it comes out and it’s something like her talking about how whites have historically oppressed blacks, the general reaction will be, “That’s what we’ve been waiting for?”

    I hope you’re right. I’d love to see the American people simply get so tired of this crap that they stop paying attention to it. I worry that they also might tune out the important stuff too.

  84. 84.

    Jake

    June 1, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    So, when an obviously intelligent woman like Michelle Obama stands up in front of an audience (on more than one occasion) and says something about being proud of the United States for the first time in her life (or even adult life), that qualifies as an incredibly stupid thing to say.

    Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?

  85. 85.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    Where has Obama been on it? It’s his job (or the job of his people) to rebut it, if he can.

    No, it’s not. He’s going to win anyway and a shouting match with Hillary does not benefit him.

    You Hillary supporters are nuts. Go ahead and vote for McCain in November if it makes you feel better. Good Lord — I don’t even like having people like you on my side.

  86. 86.

    The Other Steve

    June 1, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    See, Hillary Clinton wins the big states that are necessary to win in November!

    All of us hilltards told ya so! And if it hadn’t been for those meddling kids, it would have worked too!

  87. 87.

    D.N. Nation

    June 1, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Have the Hillary shills yet come up with a general election plan wherein they somehow win without 95% of the black vote and without 80% of angry Obama supporters?

  88. 88.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    Doug – actually IMO it’s important to do so. Lies spread from hate sites to partisan sites to random political sites to mainstream news. You have to push back early or there will be people in a few months who will really believe they’ve seen this tape.

    Undoubtedly, but those people already know that Obama is a Muslim (most likely an Imam) and that he once disappeared for six months to train in Afghanistan with his best childhood friend Osama. Most of them probably already think they were present when Michelle said whatever she did or didn’t say to whomever she did or didn’t say it. Mention of the video just acted as an aid in recovering the memory. Just don’t ask any of them about the anal probe.

  89. 89.

    The Other Steve

    June 1, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    We must count all the votes! All of them. Those from Florida and Michigan. And from Hillary’s senate race in ‘06, because those were votes just like all the others. Not to mention Hillary’s race in 2000. Just as meaningful. Icky Ickes tells me so. It’s the will of the people, as the charming Lanny Davis constantly reminds us.

    That’s funny.

  90. 90.

    Jake

    June 1, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Um, this argument about the popular vote has been made now by the Clinton camp for two weeks. Where has Obama been on it? It’s his job (or the job of his people) to rebut it, if he can.

    Right. I think the fairly consistent pushback from the Obama team has been that what matters is the number of delegates.

    Pushing back by talking about other ways to count votes would just give the popular vote nonsense some legitimacy. They seem content to let people figure out that if it sounds like bullshit, looks like bullshit, and comes from Team Clinton, then it probably is bullshit.

  91. 91.

    The Other Steve

    June 1, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Have the Hillary shills yet come up with a general election plan wherein they somehow win without 95% of the black vote and without 80% of angry Obama supporters?

    They’ve got 95% of the white woman vote!

    Well, except for the 75% of that 95% that doesn’t support Hillary.

  92. 92.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?

    No, you’re not.

    Look, if someone follows anyone around with a camera for long enough, that person’s going to say something stupid. For whatever reason, singing “bomb, bomb Iran”, agreeing that Hillary Clinton is a “bitch”, or waxing philosophical about your opponent’s possible assassination is not as bad in the eyes of the media as inartfully guessing why small town Americans vote against their own best interests or expressing frustration at the way African-Americans have been treated in this country for generations.

    Personally, I don’t get it. I don’t care too much about any of these “big deal” gaffes anyway, but I really don’t get why a gaffe based on a legitimate issue is so much worse than one based on bs.

  93. 93.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?

    I don’t know, are you? The fact remains that it created a diversion from Obama’s real purpose — getting elected. Obama has tried to run a nuanced campaign. I’m sure at this point he’s a lot more cautious about what he says because of the idiotic dust up over his “bitter” comments. He has a monumental task in front of him — getting elected in a country with more than its share of ignorant, prejudiced people. I’m pretty sure he realizes that minimizing controversies over things like whether or not his wife is or isn’t proud of America would be a good thing.

    It’s really irrelevant whether you think it’s “complete fucking nonsense/bullshit.” What matters to Obama (and to me) is does it help him or hurt him.

  94. 94.

    Jeff

    June 1, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Tainting his victory is the only way the Clintons can win, whatever winning means at this point.

    1) Free and Fair elections, as long as al Sadr Obama doesn’t win.
    2) A government that represents all the people (HRC4Me, HillIs44, AnyoneAgainstHillaryIsASexistPig, etc).
    3) A plan to eliminate militias Obama supporters.
    4) Ponies!

    =====================

    He knows he’ll be called “Brutus” by MacAuliffe.

    All the more reason to do so. (See also Richardson, Bill)

  95. 95.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Pushing back by talking about other ways to count votes would just give the popular vote nonsense some legitimacy. They seem content to let people figure out that if it sounds like bullshit, looks like bullshit, and comes from Team Clinton, then it probably is bullshit.

    I dunno, I’ve been kind of bothered by the fact that a friend–an Obama supporter–I was talking to yesterday thought Hillary won the popular vote. I told him only if you ignore caucuses, etc., but he did not seem overly persuaded. He was still pro-Obama of course, but I fear this idea, if not properly or persuasively rebutted, will take hold and be true poison in the general election.

  96. 96.

    Conservatively Liberal

    June 1, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    BTW Conservative Liberal, you should check out the pics of Neal riding his bike.. 25,000 miles on the last tour.. check em here

    Thanks for the link! Damn that looks like a blast of a trip to take on a bike. Interesting way to take pics on the fly. Interesting, but crazy! I like how they had problems finding lodging in Texas because of the LDS custody fight there.

    I am surprised that he did not try Krazy glue on his split calluses sooner though, that trick has been around for many moons now. Guitarists use it for the same reason.

    Enjoy the concert! I saw Rush a few times in the late 70’s & early 80’s, and for a three man routine they were a ‘wall of sound’. I have all of their material (original albums plus cd releases) and two concert T’s from way back when.

    While Geddy and Alex are phenomenal musicians, as a guitar player I can really appreciate Neal’s style. Jamming with a drummer like Neal would be an experience that I would never forget.

  97. 97.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    If Clinton and the pack of fools surrounding her had devoted the same amount of intellectual energy that they using in their attempt to steal the nomination to winning it we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    Just like Bush in Iraq, they fucked up from the start, kept on fucking up, and are now reduced to half-assed arguments that explain how they’re actually winning.

  98. 98.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 1, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Regarding Operation Chaos, what’s the difference between Hillary Clinton and Rush Limbaugh?

    She’s got a Senate seat and he’s got a boil on his seat.

  99. 99.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 1, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Did anyone notice that story in Vanity Fair about Bill Clinton nailing Mondale’s daughter?

  100. 100.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Personally, I don’t get it. I don’t care too much about any of these “big deal” gaffes anyway, but I really don’t get why a gaffe based on a legitimate issue is so much worse than one based on bs.

    Both sides (in the primary or national election) are always looking for an advantage. The media are looking for anything and everything. Possibly the most idiotic “gaffe” of all is the flag pin issue. Yet, look how much media attention it’s gotten. Old Nash McCabe back in Pennsylvania thinks it’s damn important. Sadly, she’ll cast a vote that expresses her ignorance, but there’s no way to stop that.

    No one says these gaffes should matter, but they do to the media and to who knows how many voters. So, the thing to do would be to minimize them, whether they’re based on real issues or bs. That seems self-evident.

    I don’t know if Obama is thinking right now he wishes he’d never joined that church or whether he just wishes he were running for president in an America that cared more about the truly important issues. But whatever he’s thinking, I doubt he’s happy to have spent so much time dealing with the issue. And I doubt he thinks it has helped him. The same goes for most of the other “gaffes.”

    Today, the microphone is always on; the camera always running. The media continues to degenerate and the American people aren’t getting any smarter. The job of everyone who works for a campaign is to help their candidate or at least, do no harm.

  101. 101.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Instead of attacking the messenger, why not consider what someone is saying, instead of what you wish the world was like.

    We’ve had a passel of messengers like you using various terms to describe Obama as a caricatured deity not to be taken seriously. You’re not a messenger pal but more a rather smarmy rendition of concern troll. And the Saint remark gave you away.

    Obviously, you’re in your Philosopher King mode today. I’d honor your request, but I don’t know your address.

    I was politely referring to your own ass, which doesn’t reside at my address.

    There are things he can control and he alone can answer for, and I’d hope he doesn’t have to spend any time trying to patch wounds inflicted by careless and foolish statements made by surrogate

    If there’s one thing EVERY candidate can count on it’s gaffes made by themselves and their surrogates, and every candidate will spend time correcting them. What else is new.
    Your concern is touching in a trolly sort of way though.

    Note: if you work on your moral outrage a little, you’ll fit in nicely over on NoQuarter, though I should caution you in their little make belief universe Obama is the worst human being in the history of the world.

    “MOral Outrage” that’s funny. I would describe it calling out a bullshitter when I see one. Especially one that
    thinks it’s clever. In your few remarks today, you’ve managed to highlight most every silly example of Clintonite outrage at why Clinton can win and Obama can’t. Oh but your an Obama supporter, only not a rabid one. Right!

  102. 102.

    Xenos

    June 1, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?

    It is not just bullshit, it is based on a deliberate misquote of what Michelle Obama said. So the only proper response to this would be a rude discussion of the speakers’ ancestry, grooming habits, sanity, sexual tastes and political affiliations.

  103. 103.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    oh really Says:

    What the fuck are you talking about? Michelle said what?

    It’s not a question of going after Michelle. When someone runs for office in this country today, he or she and every surrogate has to know that everything one says will be used in any way possible to damage the candidate. So, when an obviously intelligent woman like Michelle Obama stands up in front of an audience (on more than one occasion) and says something about being proud of the United States for the first time in her life (or even adult life), that qualifies as an incredibly stupid thing to say. Even if it’s true, and I don’t much care about Michelle Obama’s thoughts and opinions, she could have said the same thing in a way that wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow. “I’ve never been more proud of my country….” The addition of the single word “more” would have made her statement unassailable. If the idea is to win, then making statements that on a moment’s reflection any idiot knows will be ammunition for one’s opponent(s) is just plain stupid.

    Considering She said that “she was REALLY proud of her country for the first time in her adult life” deflates the flap, yet again, that was made over this. Of course the right wing and clintonista crowd twisted it. She never said she was not proud of her country but this was the first time she was “REALLY” proud of her country….

  104. 104.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    Well, except for the 75% of that 95% that doesn’t support Hillary.

    That 75% isn’t hard working. Those are the arugula eaters.

  105. 105.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    June 1, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    I’m not sure which is worse: reading what oh really thinks or reading what oh really thinks Obama thinks.

  106. 106.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    The media continues to degenerate and the American people aren’t getting any smarter.

    I disagree on the second point. I think the American people *are* getting smarter. Look at what’s happened to Bush’s approval rating.

    The fault is almost entirely with the media, not with the voters.

  107. 107.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Did anyone notice that story in Vanity Fair about Bill Clinton nailing Mondale’s daughter?

    I skimmed much of it and was pretty, well, disappointed. A lot of it was anonymous quotes strung together with speculation. While I may not like what Hillary’s campaign has been doing lately, or some of the things Bill has said recently, I still remember when the press treated a blowjob in the WH as if it were worse than starting a bad war for wrong reasons.

  108. 108.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    A lot of it was anonymous quotes strung together with speculation.

    Unlike the stuff commenters write on Ben Smith’s blog.

  109. 109.

    KC

    June 1, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Unlike the stuff commenters write on Ben Smith’s blog.

    Exactly.

  110. 110.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    A physical impossibility has appeared in the Universe.

    This impossible farm is in Virgina, in the Appalachians, run by two people from Kentucky and Virginia, and with the word Appalachia in its name, and it is run by white people, hard working white people.

    And they grow arugula.

    RUN FER YER LIVES!!!

  111. 111.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    While I may not like what Hillary’s campaign has been doing lately, or some of the things Bill has said recently, I still remember when the press treated a blowjob in the WH as if it were worse than starting a bad war for wrong reasons.

    That’s part of what tees me off about the Clintons so much. People like me were the only damn people in the country who were standing up for them when they were getting run out of town for an extramarital affair. Now, because we believe that the candidate who won more pledged delegates should be the nominee we’re “elitists”, “the far left”, the “MoveOn crowd.”

    Fuck you, Bill and Hillary. Don’t piss on the base and tell us it’s raining.

  112. 112.

    Brachiator

    June 1, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Clinton wins big. Nothing changes.

    The current NY Times story leads with a great photo of Hillary at a Puerto Rico rally, with a huge Sun Queen placard featured prominently in the background (Clinton Wins Puerto Rico, but Her Fate Is Still Uncertain)

    The story also implies that Clinton aides are trying to get Hillary to finally recognize that she has lost, and that to continue will damage both the party and what remains of her political career.

    Assuming Mr. Obama reaches the number of delegates and superdelegates he needs to secure the nomination in the coming week, Mrs. Clinton will be faced with three options, associates said: to suspend her campaign and endorse Mr. Obama; to suspend her campaign without making an endorsement; or to press the fight through the convention. Several of Mrs. Clinton’s associates said it was unlikely she would fight through the convention, given the potential damage it would do to her standing in the party, which is increasingly eager to unify and turn to the battle against Mr. McCain.

    Mrs. Clinton would almost surely face the defection of some of her highest-profile supporters, as well as some members of her staff. She would no doubt also face anger from Democratic leaders.

    “In order for us to be successful in November, the runner-up is going to have to go all out in support of the nominee,” said Representative Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. “The runner-up is going to have to be there from Day One. The support is going to have to be more than just lip service.”

    So the only thing that remains is for Clinton to hope for a dirty trick miracle in the form of the mythic Michelle Obama “whitey” tape. Otherwise, Hillary is pretty much done.

  113. 113.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    This impossible farm is in Virgina, in the Appalachians, run by two people from Kentucky and Virginia, and with the word Appalachia in its name, and it is run by white people, hard working white people.

    And they grow arugula.

    I regularly buy arugula at a local farmer’s market from hard-working white farmers who live in Appalachia (Tompkins County, NY — officially part of Appalachia). I don’t know if they’ve been to college or not.

  114. 114.

    Jorge

    June 1, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Obama picking Richardson as his VP would be a slap in the face to the Clinton campaign. And Richardson is so qualified that it is a great choice anyway.

    Barry/Guillermo ’08

  115. 115.

    El Cid

    June 1, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    DougJ Says:

    …Now, because we believe that the candidate who won more pledged delegates should be the nominee we’re “elitists”, “the far left”, the “MoveOn crowd.”

    Fuck you, Bill and Hillary. Don’t piss on the base and tell us it’s raining.

    It’s called trickle-down campaignomics.

  116. 116.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    And they grow arugula.

    RUN FER YER LIVES

    I heart the Hillbilly elitist, theyz my kind of folk.

    Daisy Mae, would you pass the Arugula please.

  117. 117.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    We’ve had a passel of messengers like you using various terms to describe Obama as a caricatured deity not to be taken seriously. You’re not a messenger pal but more a rather smarmy rendition of concern troll. And the Saint remark gave you away.

    Just as I suspected: You’re an idiot. The Saint remark referred to Saint McCain, fool. I disagree with Obama on some significant issues, but I think he has great potential. I see Clinton and McCain as being different kinds of disasters for this country. I take Obama very seriously and I want him to win in November. Your take on me may be a product of too much bloggery or simply too little gray matter, but whatever the basis, you couldn’t be more wrong.

    I was an Obama delegate to my county convention and I’m working for him. I very much want him to win the election. I assume you’re just working on being an ass on the Internet.

    It’s always a little sad watching people pretend they know things they haven’t a clue about. When you have no idea what you’re talking about, you should keep you mouth closed.

    “Concern troll” has obviously become the last refuge of the weak-minded. If you disagree with someone, you call them a concern troll. Kind of like the Right Wingers call people cowards and traitors. It’s just shorthand for you have nothing worthwhile to say.

  118. 118.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    DougJ Says:

    …Now, because we believe that the candidate who won more pledged delegates should be the nominee we’re “elitists”, “the far left”, the “MoveOn crowd.”

    Fuck you, Bill and Hillary. Don’t piss on the base and tell us it’s raining.

    Face it, they used you and “moved on”. It’s not a surprise just typical of them.

  119. 119.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    holy shit, i just watched a guy get kicked off the top of a tractor trailer onto the parking lot below then have another guy do a back flip onto him…I know it’s wrestling but there’s no way you don’t feel that.

  120. 120.

    Cain

    June 1, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    Did anyone notice that story in Vanity Fair about Bill Clinton nailing Mondale’s daughter?

    His tastes have really gone ghetto then since then. Eleanor looks pretty classy.

    cain

  121. 121.

    Cain

    June 1, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Thanks for the link! Damn that looks like a blast of a trip to take on a bike. Interesting way to take pics on the fly. Interesting, but crazy! I like how they had problems finding lodging in Texas because of the LDS custody fight there.

    I figured you would appreciate that! He’s a hardcore rider. Before that he road his bicycle through Africa, chain smoking the whole time. :-)

    cain

  122. 122.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Face it, they used you and “moved on”. It’s not a surprise just typical of them.

    But now we should support them because Appalachians and Puerto Ricans like them.

  123. 123.

    sunny

    June 1, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Mondale can’t be happy.

  124. 124.

    theturtlemoves

    June 1, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Seeing Rush in four hours? So, that’d be the Clark County Amphitheater up by Portland, eh? Saw them there on the first swing through last summer. I was going to go again this summer, but a family vacation later this month is draining any funds that would have been spent seeing my favorite band. Say hello to the boys for me, Cain. I’ll listen to the live CD that just came out while wearing my baseball jersey from last summer and wishing I was there…

  125. 125.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Just as I suspected: You’re an idiot. The Saint remark referred to Saint McCain, fool.

    Here’s what you said jackass. In one sentence. Now Fuck off.

    Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife.

  126. 126.

    Otto Man

    June 1, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    It’s easy to say that a video exists, harder to find it, but yeah, “Whitey,” seems to be a term that white racists think blacks use to describe them.

    I believe it’s actually an old episode of “The Jeffersons” and the anti-Obama crowd is just too retarded to tell the difference.

  127. 127.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Considering She said that “she was REALLY proud of her country for the first time in her adult life” deflates the flap, yet again, that was made over this.

    You may as well get your facts straight. Unfortunately, that was not her initial statement. If you want clarification of that, just go to YouTube and search for “Michelle Obama” and “proud.”

    As I said, I don’t care what she says or what she’s proud of; she’s not the candidate. But if it hurts Obama it’s a problem.

    It seems like the problem here is the difference between what should matter and what does matter in elections in this country. Obama has got to get elected based on what does matter (to the media and Nash McCabes). Otherwise, the campaign wouldn’t have spent so much time on this crap.

  128. 128.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    But now we should support them because Appalachians and Puerto Ricans like them.

    If Gore had taken Puerto Rico in the general in 2000 then the course of history would have changed.

  129. 129.

    Adam

    June 1, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Drudge has what is just about the worst-formatted website I have seen in years.

    Yeah, Drudge needs to get John’s blog engine running over there. Commenting here is almost like scribbling prose on the Mona Lisa. With a Sharpie.

  130. 130.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    You may as well get your facts straight. Unfortunately, that was not her initial statement. If you want clarification of that, just go to YouTube and search for “Michelle Obama” and “proud.”

    I saw it, I saw the original clip, she said it was the first time she was really proud of her country. Let me guess you also believe she said she wouldn’t vote for Hillary too?

  131. 131.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    If Gore had taken Puerto Rico in the general in 2000 then the course of history would have changed.

    Given that it’s his home state, he really should have won. He has no one to blame but himself. Maybe if he’d taken Naomi Wolf’s advice and learned to speak Spanish, he would have done better.

    But hindsight is 20-20 my friends.

  132. 132.

    Bob In Pacifica

    June 1, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    The question isn’t whether Bill did or didn’t do Mondale’s daughter. The question is why it’s coming out now.

  133. 133.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    Bob In Pacifica Says:

    The question isn’t whether Bill did or didn’t do Mondale’s daughter. The question is why it’s coming out now.

    No matter the reason it’s obvious that THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR HILLARY!

  134. 134.

    Conservatively Liberal

    June 1, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    So the only thing that remains is for Clinton to hope for a dirty trick miracle in the form of the mythic Michelle Obama “whitey” tape. Otherwise, Hillary is pretty much done.

    In other words, she is hoping for a ‘Hail Whitey’ pass from the right sideline to the end zone, where she is waiting to catch it.

    I figured you would appreciate that! He’s a hardcore rider. Before that he road his bicycle through Africa, chain smoking the whole time.

    Hard core rider is an understatement. I also ride my mountain bike around town, smoking like a train. If you are going to have bad habits, try to have a few good ones too!

    Balance in life is everything. ;)

  135. 135.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    The question is why it’s coming out now.

    Because people are sick of the Clintons?

  136. 136.

    DougJ

    June 1, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Does Obama’a loss today prove that he can’t win the “big islands”, the ones that really count in the general?

  137. 137.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Here’s what you said jackass. In one sentence. Now Fuck off.

    Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife.

    Ah, the Philosopher King again. But who’s the jackass. This time, like any cretin with a point to make you’ve selectively quoted me. By leaving out the first part of the sentence you make it seem like the whole sentence is about Obama, which of course it wasn’t. The real quote is:

    Bill has been an embarrassment, Michelle said one of the stupidest things ever uttered by a person not named Bush or Cheney, there are obviously plenty of people who’d like to get the Saint by trashing his wife.

    Amazing. I went from Bill to Michelle Obama to the Saint. Three different people in only one sentence. Obviously, that’s more than you can handle.

    Let’s see, who in this campaign is constantly referred to as the “Saint.” Oh, my, that would be John McCain wouldn’t it? And I’ve read lots of comments (on various sites) about getting at McCain through his wife Cindy. And first I wrote about Bill and then Michelle and then the Saint. Is it starting to sink in yet. You, obviously looking for a fight (so adult), couldn’t bother to read carefully or try to figure out what I meant. You just started slamming away on the keyboard with your foul mouth and tiny brain. Embarrassing.

    I’d never refer to Obama as the “Saint,” because not only does the word not apply, but it’s one I and many others disdainfully reserve for McCain. I guess you must have missed people referring to McCain as Saint McCain.

    I’m sorry I wasn’t clear enough for you, Nutjar. Sadly, your brain and vocabulary are just too limited for an adult discussion. I guess that’s what happens when you’re always on “outrage patrol.”

    I realize this may be hard for you to grasp in that cubby hole of a world you occupy, but the reason I referred to McCain in that sentence is because getting at candidates through their spouses has become common and it’s not limited to one party’s candidates. But then I’d already stated that, hadn’t I? And I don’t approve of any of it.

    Of course, a guy like you, who can sniff out a phony a mile away never needs to stop and think if a statement could be interpreted more than one way. Nope. Not a chance.

    Just remember the next time: Saint probably means McCain. If I wasn’t clear enough for you, you have my deepest apologies. I realize it would be foolish to expect an apology from you, but the next time you reproduce a quote, at least have the integrity to reproduce all of it. And by the way, (I think it was in grade school that I learned this) when you leave out words in a quote, at least use an ellipsis to show that you’re leaving something out.

  138. 138.

    dreggas

    June 1, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Dennis – SGMM Says:

    The question is why it’s coming out now.

    Because people are sick of the Clintons?

    more likely because now that the “Clintons” have pretty much written their own political death warrant, and given that Obama is winning they are helping put nails in the coffin by shooting down the vetted myth.

  139. 139.

    Dennis - SGMM

    June 1, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    more likely because now that the “Clintons” have pretty much written their own political death warrant, and given that Obama is winning they are helping put nails in the coffin by shooting down the vetted myth.

    So it’s like Snotty Scotty releasing his memoir. Now that the mastodon lies wheezing on its side everyone who was trampled will share their story. I’m just an old paranoid; I thought that the Clintons were shit by ’94 and Bush was shit from the get-go.

  140. 140.

    ThymeZone

    June 1, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Am I the only one here who thinks this is complete fucking nonsense/bullshit?

    I count at least four of us who think so, so far. You, me,DougJ and Xenos.

    Of course it is bullshit, and a misrepresentation of what she said and meant.

    Me expectation is that in November we will be looking at this landslide victory for Obama against Magoo, and we’ll be wondering why anyone paid any attention to this horsecrap back in the spring.

  141. 141.

    ThymeZone

    June 1, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Sigh. “Me expectation.” No, not a pissy leprechaun.

    Just pissy. “My expectation” is what I meant.

  142. 142.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    I’m sorry I wasn’t clear enough for you, Nutjar.

    You weren’t any where near clear enough oh really. Let me make this clear though. If you are truly an Obama supporter (and I doubt it), please don’t be. Your brilliant insights into Obama’s gaffes are old news and your concern is smarmy bullshit. Maybe it’s just me but people who wallow in meaninglessness are usually a drag on everything, whether by design or not. And unlike you I don’t have the resource of a huge intellect as you’ve so graciously pointed out. I’m pretty sure (could be wrong) I’ve chatted with you before under a different handle and ended up in the same place. So I’ll just say I think your full of shit, in my Neanderthal kind of way. And once again fuck off.

  143. 143.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Of course it is bullshit, and a misrepresentation of what she said and meant.

    Apparently, you miss my point. It doesn’t matter what we think of a statement. It is how it plays. It doesn’t take any great leap to imagine how a statement like that is going to play in this country. The point is to avoid that.

    Samantha Power realized instantly that she’d made a mistake; not necessarily in her assessment of Clinton, but in voicing that opinion. The result was that Obama lost a valuable advisor.

  144. 144.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Of course it is bullshit, and a misrepresentation of what she said and meant.

    Apparently, you miss my point. It doesn’t matter what we think of a statement. It is how it plays. It doesn’t take any great leap to imagine how a statement like that is going to play in this country. The point is to avoid that.

    Samantha Power realized instantly that she’d made a mistake; not necessarily in her assessment of Clinton, but in voicing that opinion. The result was that Obama lost a valuable adviser.

    If that is too subtle, then it probably isn’t a good idea for you to advise a candidate or act as a surrogate. With the likes of Tweety, Rush, et al. out there and the advent of YouTube, statements like Michelle’s are going to work against a candidate. As I stated earlier, by simply saying “I’ve never been more proud of my country…” she makes her point and avoids the crap. Apparently, she doesn’t say that anymore — that’s probably because it doesn’t work as campaign rhetoric in 2008 America.

  145. 145.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    You weren’t any where near clear enough oh really. Let me make this clear though. If you are truly an Obama supporter (and I doubt it), please don’t be. Your brilliant insights into Obama’s gaffes are old news and your concern is smarmy bullshit. Maybe it’s just me but people who wallow in meaninglessness are usually a drag on everything, whether by design or not. And unlike you I don’t have the resource of a huge intellect as you’ve so graciously pointed out. I’m pretty sure (could be wrong) I’ve chatted with you before under a different handle and ended up in the same place. So I’ll just say I think your full of shit, in my Neanderthal kind of way. And once again fuck off.

    I guess you’re really happy being wrong as often as possible. No, I’ve never had the pleasure of chatting with you before (and I’ll avoid it in the future).

    I guess your approach is best. Accuse, insult, avoid thinking, use foul language, and make an ass of yourself. A real prescription for success in any venue. In the Nutjab cubby hole only people who think (???) like you are acceptable. That sounds like a prescription for an electoral landslide — for your opponent. Brilliant.

    I stand in awe.

  146. 146.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    You weren’t any where near clear enough oh really. Let me make this clear though. If you are truly an Obama supporter (and I doubt it), please don’t be. Your brilliant insights into Obama’s gaffes are old news and your concern is smarmy bullshit. Maybe it’s just me but people who wallow in meaninglessness are usually a drag on everything, whether by design or not. And unlike you I don’t have the resource of a huge intellect as you’ve so graciously pointed out. I’m pretty sure (could be wrong) I’ve chatted with you before under a different handle and ended up in the same place. So I’ll just say I think your full of shit, in my Neanderthal kind of way. And once again fuck off.

    I guess you’re really happy being wrong as often as possible. No, I’ve never had the pleasure of chatting with you before (and I’ll avoid it in the future).

    I guess your approach is best. Accuse, insult, avoid thinking, use foul language, and make an ass of yourself. A real prescription for success in any venue. In the Nutjab cubby hole only people who think (???) like you are acceptable. That sounds like a prescription for an electoral landslide — for your opponent. Brilliant.

    I stand in awe. And you are still an idiot. You can fuck off if you want to, I don’t really care.

  147. 147.

    nightjar

    June 1, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    I stand in awe. And you are still an idiot. You can fuck off if you want to, I don’t really care.

    BIG Yawn!

  148. 148.

    Kevin

    June 1, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    I guess you’re really happy being wrong as often as possible. No, I’ve never had the pleasure of chatting with you before (and I’ll avoid it in the future).

    Please avoid “chatting” with the rest of us as well.

  149. 149.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    I disagree on the second point. I think the American people are getting smarter. Look at what’s happened to Bush’s approval rating.

    DougJ, I wish I could agree, but given how long it took millions of Americans to sour on Bush, I wouldn’t say that was a sign of much more than very slow learning. A “smarter” American voter also fails to explain why with McCain running on Bush’s foreign policy and tax cut domestic policy (complete with a “screw you” health care plan) he’s polling so close to Obama and Clinton.

    The fault is almost entirely with the media, not with the voters.

    We look at this differently. We probably both have similar opinions about the quality of the media, but in the chicken-egg contest, I’d say the media are bad because the people allow them to be. If the American people were truly hungry for good news coverage they could ignore the current garbage and unless the MSM changed they’d all go belly up.

  150. 150.

    oh really

    June 1, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Please avoid “chatting” with the rest of us as well.

    No problem, Kevin. I’ll comment if I choose to and you just don’t respond. That way we won’t be “chatting” and we’ll both be happy. On the other hand, if you own the Internet, please tell me.

  151. 151.

    Kevin

    June 2, 2008 at 1:24 am

    oh really Says:
    Pie. Pie. Pie. Pie.

    Ever notice how totally great that word sounds?

    I agree, completely.

  152. 152.

    bago

    June 2, 2008 at 3:07 am

    CATFIGHT!

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