Words can’t describe the feeling of watching Republicans madly stabbing each other in the back while their party goes down in a tidal wave election. It’s like the last scene of a crappy cartoon like Thundercats where the stupid villians spend their last miserable moments pointlessly attacking each other. Apparently a six year old can’t feel as good about hating the designated bad guys if they show some dignity at the end.
To put it another way, victory + schadenfreude = win.
“Lashing out at past Republican Congresses instead of Pelosi and Reid, and echoing your opponent’s attacks on you instead of attacking your opponent, and spending 150,000 hard dollars on designer clothes when congressional Republicans are struggling for money, and when your senior campaign staff are blaming each other for the loss in The New York Times [Magazine] 10 days before the election, you’re not doing much to energize your supporters.
The fact is, when you’re the party standard-bearer, you have an obligation to fight to the finish. I think they can still win. But if they don’t think that, they need to look at how Bob Dole finished out his campaign in 1996 and not try to take down as many Republicans with them as they can. Instead of campaigning in Electoral College states, Dole was campaigning in places he knew he didn’t have a chance to beat Clinton, but where he could energize key House and Senate races. I think you’ll find these sentiments shared by MANY of my fellow Republican strategists.”
It won’t last. President Obama will give the rightwing a focus for their hate and fear. Even better, unlike us they won’t have to defend anything the government does. Every housefire and treed cat will be more evidence of Democrat perfidy. It will be, and I’m dead serious about this, wingnut blogger heaven. When stupid people to have their ideas put into practice, they have to explain why it failed (see vouchers, invading Iraq, privatizing government). In the future, with the Dems in charge of everything but the Idaho State Senate there won’t be much danger of that.
Meanwhile we liberals will discover that don’t all want the same thing. Your priority list won’t look like mine. Some people whose priorities conflict with some other people will declare that the other guys are as bad as the Republicans! 1!1!one!. Some bloggers will defend Obama’s inevitable bonehead moves, some of us won’t.
Thank god for the prospect of a very busy Obama DoJ.
Stuck in the Funhouse
Party Pooper, even if correct. :-)
The fact is, when you’re the party standard-bearer, you have an obligation to fight to the finish. I think they can still win. But if they don’t think that, they need to look at how Bob Dole finished out his campaign in 1996 and not try to take down as many Republicans with them as they can. Instead of campaigning in Electoral College states, Dole was campaigning in places he knew he didn’t have a chance to beat Clinton, but where he could energize key House and Senate races.
John McCain doesn’t give a damn about your piddling downticket races, you c*nt!
I bet some of the Republican candidates in those "key House and Senate races" hope that McCain and Palin stay as far away from them as possible.
Dennis - SGMM
We know what to expect from the right. The growing recession will become The Obama Recession. Decades of non-energy policy will become Obama’s Failure on Energy. The disastrously mis-managed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will become Democrats Lose War.
What will be harder to justify will be the sniping from the Left as Obama sets priorities that don’t immediately resolve someone’s pet issue whether it’s green energy, withdrawal from Iraq, or Endangered Species status for the fully laden African Swallow.
Oh hell no, I want this moment to end. Quickly. Yes all you’ve pointed out will come true, but that’s life. Waiting to see how Republicans treat Collin Powell, Kathleen Parker, and Christopher Buckley in the event of a McCain loss. That should be instructive.
Not take down fellow Republicans?
Now THAT wouldn’t be very Mavericky, would it?
Fact is, a Maverick shouldn’t care whether his Senate cohorts are (R) or (D). They’re all just herds to abandon when the spirit moves him…
Meanwhile we liberals will discover that don’t all want the same thing.
How disappointing. I’ve been going along believing all these years that liberals march in perfect lockstep.
I am confidently, if sadly, expecting a resurgence of the Tim-McVeigh-style patriot-militias under President Obama. Sigh.
The Moar You Know
IRONIC HOPE: That the task of combatting/supressing such militias is assigned to Blackwater.
Dennis - SGMM
What else do you expect Real Americans to do when the president is a scary black man who pals around with terrorists?
Say, what’s happened to Holy Joe Lieberman? He’s been awfully quiet recently.
What we really need is a return to independent prosecutors. Let the DOJ keep focused on current problems, while independently funded and authorized prosecutors go after the Bushies and their crimes.
Well, we may get a year or so of a break as the GOP engages in their version of The Night of the Long Knives. But after that every time a five-year old cries it will be Obama’s fault.
@The Moar You Know: doubly ironic: Blackwater will be the source of members for these upstart militias.
I, too, have been gorging on the tasty, tasty schadenfreude all morning long. The crack-up at the Corner is particularly delicious.
Ella in NM
Jeez, isn’t that what he is already?
On the other hand, I wonder if we haven’t seen the disgusting , lingering, pus-filled boil of this ugliness lanced in this election, forcing new light to be shown on the black, tarry ugliness that has been the core of the party for far too long.
I’m really excited to see what decent, moderate authentically- conservative Republicans are going to do to take back their party.
It’s funny how those decades long circle jerks always eventually take that turn into a circular firing squad. I think it’s the lining up in the circle, it just leads the transition from one to the other.
The cherry on my schadensundae would be if Kucinich put up the Articles of Impeachment on November 5th and used them not to impeach but to block the pardon-palooza that is sure to follow.
I don’t want blood, but I’d sure like to see the past 4-8 years unwound, slowly and deliberately, in front of Congress and the American people.
Comrade Sock Puppet of the Great Satan
"If Only This Moment Could Last Forever
Words can’t describe the feeling of watching Republicans madly stabbing each other in the back while while their party goes down in a tidal wave election."
Ahh, but on election night there’s the sweetest moment of all: watching GOP staffers who thought they had wingnut welfare sinecures gulping with fear as they see their jobs disappear and wondering how their work experience could translate to anything useful for the private sector.
Plus, with the bloodletting on Wall Street and the likely irrelevance of the GOP from 2008-2010, there’ll be no I-Bank or lobbying firm jobs for them.
I’m actually hoping Palin isn’t mortally wounded though by the impending loss. We need her to stop GOP politicans who aren’t thick as two short planks and have talent and populist appeal (like Huckabee and Jindal) from getting on the 2012 ticket.
Plus, she’ll be a great unifier for the Democrats.
Gods, I hope that Dems already know and have internalized this part. Maybe not the young ones who are new to the whole "politics" thing, but those of us who’ve been around the block a few years should know that the Democratic Party is:
1) Not particularly liberal
2) Not particularly cohesive
I’m just hoping that the "voices of the left" don’t stop criticizing the government when it starts doing stupid things. That’s where I think conservatism as a movement has fallen apart – too many conservatives decided that Republican == conservative and went "all in" on the GOP – and wound up trashing their beliefs in defense of a corrupt pack of jackals and crooks who were making mad power grabs instead of governing well.
As citizens we need to be critical of the government whether it’s "our team" or the "other team". If the GOPers would have done that over the last 8 years – held their party in check and demanded transparency and accountability – they wouldn’t be wallowing in the massive FAIL that they’re in right now. Dems should take a lesson from this, and be aware that "falling in line" should not be an option when the leadership is pushing bad ideas. (I actually don’t think this will be much of a problem, because in a room with 4 Democrats you can have as many as 9 different opinions. But it’s good to watch out for the zombie mindwipe taking effect.)
Mike Murphy and Mark McKinnon are turning out to be the smartest Republicans in the room. McKinnon resigned back in the early summer rather than run a negative advertising campaign against Obama:
Murphy took himself out of consideration for the chief strategist role in the McCain campaign, leading to Steve Schmidt ultimately taking the position.
Right, because once the Dems took power over the investigatory apparatus in the legislature, heads rolled, right?
There are plenty of things to plausibly wish for, but boy, is that ever not one of them.
Heads rolling for wiretapping and Let alone actual accountability for the bloodbath overseas? Extradition to The Hague? Pfft. Everyone in power has blood on their hands at this point; they’ll do the "right" thing so far as it moves them ahead in the party, but Cheney’ll happily be doing the Kissinger circuit as long as he can walk, or possibly roll.
jake 4 that 1
Tim. F, no offense man but it seems you’ve got the same post running on a loop. We know this. Anyone who doesn’t know this should be getting his parents permission to log on to the computer.
Pffft! Yeah. In an alternate universe. Here are the only "explanations" I’ve ever heard from the doucheswill brigage:
1. It is too working, you just hate America/The Troops/Christmas/The Baby Jesus!
2. Waaah! It’s Clinton/Carter/Obama’s fauuult!
3. Mistakes were made.
Nothing will change that. If McPalin win and Congress became 90 -10 Rep. Dem., everything would still be the Democrats’ fault, everything will always be the Democrats’ fault and I’d really like to know what you’ve seen that makes you think anything short of a direct hit by a 10 mile meteorite would change that.
In the meantime, I’d much rather have them screaming about how crappy things are because they aren’t in power than screaming about how crappy things are while they’re in power.
You’re missing, I think, a key aspect of human nature that we’ll see arise for the 2012 election. "We didn’t win because we didn’t ALL focus on being REAL REPUBLICANS."
Yes, there will be a large slice of "Blame the Dems." But you’re also going to see a flurry of accusations of this, that or the other leg of the Republican chair (and their representatives) being RINOs. There will be lots of internal fighting as the nativists fight the dominionists, with frequent pauses while both shake their fists at the corporatists. All will claim McCain was one of the other group’s representative, and if they’d only run with THEIR candidate they’d be in the White House now.
I’m going to watch the 2010 elections with interest to see if there are any compromisers within the party. Any candidates at all who can speak comfortably with two of the three groups and not be the subject of hostility from the other are candidates who might pull the GOP back together after the 2012 loss. I don’t see any right now, but it’s possible. If it doesn’t happen – if the backbiting continues after 2012, then we may see the Republicans go down for a couple of decades. We’ll just have to wait and see, of course.
Did they ever go away?
15 years ago my wife and I were driving back to CA from Iowa and decided to go up through SD/WY. Stopped for gas in the middle of SD, went in to pay and the guy running the place was chatting with two other guys, all in full camo, about militia training plans. Didn’t even skip a beat when I (clearly from out of the area) came in. They seemed like nice enough guys, but I don’t want to know what they dream about at night.
I love you for the Thundercats reference. I can see a bitter and enraged Mum-ra lashing out at his underlings as I type this.
I agree with you there. In fact, I expect at least two or three people I work with to start bitching around March or April if everything isn’t fixed. Then again, eight weeks is enough to turn back eight years of failure, right?
I think Obama is smart enough to go about fixing problems in a particular way. I hope Bill Clinton calls him up right after he’s sworn in and tells him to tackle some smaller ones before tackling something big, like health care (this, of course, goes on the assumption that if Clinton had tried to reform welfare programs first, his health care proposals might have had a better chance at success).
I also think Obama’s got enough credibility with his very devoted supporters to tell them to chill the fuck out if necessary and actually have them listen.
jake 4 that 1
@Arachnae: Yep. And if McPOW and Madame Moosestepper win some of those wanks will assume its open season on people who look Anti-American.
This election is going to be a Win-Win for people who like the sound of breaking glass.
I listen to moderate rightwing radio now and then just for kicks, and basically they just bitch about everything. They’ll bitch about how it’s too sunny in the morning and too cloudy in the afternoon. They’ll bitch about how crowded the stores are and five minutes later how the stores are all empty and how terrible that is. And it’s always the fault of the liberals/gays/blacks/immigrants/atheists/etc.
The remaining vocal groups in the GOP have some pathological victim mentality going on. I know the Dems have gone through this at various points, but there always seemed to be enough sane ones in the party to pull the unhinged ones away from the cliff. The GOP is right now actively executing the sane ones. They’re heading off the cliff for all I can see. Palin is the future of the party. As things stand now, she’ll run in 2012 and name Jesus as her VP copilot and promise to bomb everyone who doesn’t speak God’s language (English – the language of the Bible, donchaknow). And the starbursts will put the wingnuttisphere all in.
Who is there to pull them back? The really respectable Republicans (those that don’t instinctively blame everyone else) are either getting out of politics or backing Obama. I don’t see how they cobble together enough influence in 4 years to reclaim the party.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
I think he and John had a falling out concerning the truth regarding Joe’s "I’m a Democrat" lie. John said it was so great that he had a Democrat who was so enthusiastic about supporting him and Lieberman said: "Uh, John, that’s only what I tell the little people". McCain took it as an insult about his height.
You have this wrong. His advise would be to do the big thing right out of the box, and the few tea leaves there are to read seem to indicate that Obama agrees with this. Clinton’s problem was not only did he not do the big thing out of the box, but he then "out of the box" did things that hurt him with the people in the electorate most likely to swing to the Republicans instead of something, anything, that would have solidified his position. For example the welfare reform would have been at least an alternative to health care that would have bought him cred with white working class, but of course he went with shipping their jobs overseas (NAFTA) then empowering the gays (gays in the military, which failed anyways). What was it, 16 months in or something, when he was ready for the health care proposal it was DOA.
Edit – a PS, at the time Clinton made this mistake I knew he had just stupidly killed his presidency, and I recall wanting to kick my TV in when the gays in the military story hit. I couldn’t believe that someone with so much promise could make what seem to me to be a mistake a clear eyed 12 year old would be smart enough to avoid.
On behalf of Lion-O…
Fuck you, Tim!
Great analogy, though. I always marveled at how a group of total morans always managed to undermine even the best laid plans by the super-powerful Mum-Ra.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
This is a good point. I watched a video last night of a bunch of Republicans who are voting for Obama because they couldn’t buy what the GOP was selling. Those people are not going to allow the right to rewrite history. I think they have fractured their ideology for a while. They may still have a party, but it won’t be screaming out the missives written by the evangelicals on social issues anytime soon.
He probably got a little pouty when McCain said in one of his interviews that Sarah Palin was more qualified to be VP than ANY of the VP candidates for many years. That one had to hurt. And also too.
If I were Joe Lieberman, I’d be staying behind the scenes at most McCain rallies … and staying far away from most Palin rallies.
He is just another socialist, after all.
But seriously, the states where Joe could have helped are already gone Blue long ago. The states that are left for McCain to contend for, introducing the guy who might not agree with the "America is a Christian Nation" chant is kind of a rally buzzkill.
I’m sad to say I think you are right.
Two Words: Preemptive Pardon Yes, they are an established part of US jurisprudence, unlike most of this Administrations claims regarding Executive Power – this one is on solid ground. The President can pardon anyone for anything they did at anytime, even before they’ve ever been charged.
I agree. And unlike with Clinton, they now have the racial angle to tee off on.
They never went away, they were simply content that one of their own occupied the WH for 8 years.
Consider these people the militant arm of the American Taliban.
And don’t forget that with power comes corruption.
The past 8-12 years has featured a Democratic Party of limited power, yet blamed for every failure that they often had little to do with (e.g. "How could you let George Bush, Dick Cheney and George Tenet provide you only with biased information designed to lead you to believe Saddam had WMDs?").
But with this new power corruption WILL come, and no matter how small or isolated an event, it will be spun as a sign that the entire party, platform, and ideology are corrupt.
"What do you mean it’ll take 18 months instead of 16 to pull out of Iraq?! See, we told you the Democrats wanted to overthrow capitalism and install a national socialist regime!!!"
And unfortunately, the only way to combat this is for Dems to be honest about what’s working, and what isn’t, and to communicate that clearly to Americans. A burden the majority of snake-tongued Republican shills have never had to deal with.
This is funny, check out Sarah’s scarf (clearest in pic 11).
Fish in a barrel…
live by the maverick party outsider, die by the maverick party outsider.
suck it, fucko.
If the radio fare this morning is any indication, there is about to be a mushroom cloud of concern over having the Democrats control the presidency, the House, and the Senate.
One fool on NPR right now is arguing that we’re going to have the "most liberal government in American history." What a joke!
Needless to say, the messages will be "don’t vote for Obama because the Democrats are going to dominate the House and Senate," AND "don’t vote for a Democrat for the House because Obama’s going to be president and the Senate will be Democratic," AND "don’t vote for a Democratic Senate candidate, because Obama will be president and the Democrats will have a big majority in the House."
The ideal result for those making this argument would be to defeat Obama and keep Republican losses to a minimum in both houses.
It’s hard for me to imagine a Reid-led Senate or a Pelosi-led House being the most "anything" in history…unless it is the most inept and even that is doubtful given the recent Republican contenders.
Anonymous sources are good and all, but I enjoy speculation as to who the "one of the most senior Republican strategists in the land" is. Any thoughts?
My money is on Boy Genius/Turd Blossom (Karl Rove, his Mr. Hyde side being ascendant at this phase of the moon/race).
The Grand Panjandrum
1. Complete withdrawal from Iraq.
2. Universal single-payer healthcare.
3. Resolve financial meltdown.
4. Close Gitmo.
5. Arrest Bush and Cheney.
6. Rescind ALL executive orders authorizing warrantless wiretaps.
7. Legalize drugs.
8. Buy everyone a pony.
As long as he gets all this done I don’t see why liberals and Democrats would get into a pissing contest with one another. (OK he wouldn’t have to do it ALL immediately. I guess a Valentine’s Day deadline would be enough to keep us all on board, eh?)
@Dennis – SGMM:
It’s like we are freakishly linked! I was just thinking over lunch that Obama is probably going to disappoint a lot of people on the "looney left" by proposing as his first piece of legislation some innocuous bi-partisan bill that is designed to get almost unanimous approval by the House and Senate
I think you’re right, in that this appears to be part of recognized law, but where the hell did that crap come from?
@Dennis – SGMM:
On the one hand, it’s important that those of us to the left of Obama don’t give the right-wing thugs an opening.
On the other hand, strong disagreements with and pushes from the left against a centrist Obama administration can help move the Overton window.
One thing I never understood was the gays in the military thing. Either he should have avoided it, or just done it, and not let it drag out and fail like it did (IIRC).
My father has told me what people said about FDR when FDR was president.
"That man." (They couldn’t stand to say his name.)
"That cripple in the White House."
"That Jew bastard in the White House."
"Yeah, his real name was ROSENFELD."
"That Jew bastard cripple who sold this country up the river to the Communists."
The more things change…
I am hopeful that Obama will run the first 6-12 months of his Presidency as focused as his campaign. I am currently convinced that he will, until I see something otherwise. My pet issues……lowering dependency on foreign oil, making a graceful exit from Iraq, establishing an intelligent game plan on terrorism (see recent NYTimes article on UK prosecutorial v. military response), stabilizing the US economy, universal access to health care, game plan on Social Security, long term debt, cleaning up faulty policies — wiretapping, No Child Left Behind, and an overall engaging position on a global level. These pet projects will take a long time to come to fruition. I don’t intend to snark on Obama if he does not address mine right away as long as they stay on table.
I agree with your overall point that the order in which the health care proposal came up was bad politics. Gays should have been prioritized above that.
That said, I think the controversy that arose has raised awareness across the country. I can’t help but feel we are further ahead on gay acceptance than we would otherwise have been.
Thank god for the prospect of a very busy Obama DoJ.
As librarian pointed out above, I wouldn’t get your hopes up on that one. Bush may issue some sweeping, preemptive pardons in January. He can’t pardon people who haven’t been charged with any crime. And he doesn’t have to confine himself to named individuals, he could pardon whole classes of people.
– Ford pardoning Nixon (preemptive pardon; Nixon hadn’t been charged with a crime… yet)
– Carter pardoning draft dodgers that met certain requirements (pardoning a class, not specifically named individuals)
What eglenn said at #18. But I don’t think that will happen. That would require some sort of implicit endorsement from Obama. And there’s no way he would do it. It would kill the bipartisan buzz.
As I’m sure many of you have already seen, the Obama campaign also appears to be fans of failblog.
Fundamentally, if we’re not out there pulling a whitewater, low-key investigations are a good thing. You get to periodically pop up and indict/try/convict another Republican, lobbyist, or Republican donor. We’ve got so much to choose from that we could go balls to the wall investigations for 4 years and still not uncover 1/2 the shit they pulled.
Frankly, I don’t care if we actually convict a lot of Republicans (although I know we can). I just want the pressure of ongoing investigations and indictments to take down even more Republicans (and Republican money defending said guilty Republicans) in 2009 and 2010. Yes, it will feed the victimization mentality of Republicans, but this is also a good thing. It’s not a winning issue with the populace at large, so fine if we keep them backed up into the corner enough that they go all wing-nut, all the time in response.
I agree with your sentiments from here across the water but l must say one very important thing.
DO NOT DISS THE THUNDERCATS AND CALL THEM CRAPPY!!!
If no apology is forthcoming l will be forced fly over there and to put your comments online on fansites and lead my noble horde of geeky minions to your lair to treat you like the monster in Mary Shelly’s opus.
You have been warned.
HEY! The Thundercats do not deserve such a nasty slight!
That was my favorite cartoon when I was like 5.
Tim gets the analogy wrong with the "villians" part. There was only one real major villian. The Mum-Ra guy. Unless you count the wheezy cat-like thing that was always getting in trouble. Perhaps he was a stealth muslim sent to infiltrate the Thundercats.
Maybe really close to the election Sarah Palin will get all "Velma" on us and Obama will be forced to remove his mask revealing that he was actually Joerg Haider in disguise, and he will say, "I vuud haf gotten avay vit it iff knot fur you pesky kidsses"
Now that I’ve ever so cautiously begun to consider that the "Democrats may win" or "Democrats may not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory", I’m worrying that they’ll make the same mistake the Republicans made after their
winuh… victory in 2004 elections – overreaching. The temptation to do so will be nearly overwhelming and be in direct proportion with the margin and breadth of the victory. The recriminations, blame, backbiting and everything else will rest at Obama’s and the Democrat’s feet on November 5th. The Democratic party and Obama learned well the lesson of neglecting to respond to the attacks after Kerry’s missteps in August of 2004. Hopefully they’ll also have learned the lessons of the Republican’s bravado and overreach after the election.
As Sadly, No! put it:
dude, come on!
Thundercats were the shit! But they did have a crummy end segment as you pointed out. They’d probably vote Obama.