We’re not the only one who think it is dumb for Republicans to tie themselves to Rush Limbaugh so closely:
Politio has learned that tomorrow Americans United for Change, a liberal group, will begin airing radio ads in three states Obama won — Ohio, Pennsylvania and Nevada — with a tough question aimed at the GOP senators there: Will you side with Obama or Rush Limbaugh?
“Every Republican member of the House chose to take Rush Limbaugh’s advice,” says the narrator after playing the conservative talk radio giant’s declaration that he hopes Obama “fails.”
“Every Republican voted with Limbaugh — and against creating 4 million new American jobs. We can understand why a extreme partisan like Rush Limbaugh wants President Obama’s Jobs program to fail — but the members of Congress elected to represent the citizens in their districts? That’s another matter. Now the Obama plan goes to the Senate, and the question is: Will our Senator”—here the ad is tailored by state to name George Voinovich in Ohio, Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania, and John Ensign in Nevada—”side with Rush Limbaugh too?”
Why the Republicans didn’t see this kind of thing coming, I can’t say. It’s hard to believe that a group that forged a permanent majority could be this short-sighted.
Comrade Jake
Wasn’t Eric Cantor blaming Obama about this yesterday? OH THE PARTISANSHIP! WHAT HAPPENED TO "CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN"?!?!?
Good times.
ed
Rush Limbaugh is a racist asshole.
NickM
Democrats learning to counterpunch — that’s change I can believe in.
The Moar You Know
I had a cat back in the day that wasn’t very bright.
We had a couch that backed against a shelf, with about an inch of space between the couch and shelf. Dumb Cat’s sister (who was not stupid) would sit on top of the shelf and dangle her paw into the space. Dumb Cat would leap up to attack her paw, bashing his head into the shelf every time.
I think the Republicans are Dumb Cat, and Obama is Dumb Cat’s sister.
We moved the couch to prevent this. I didn’t want Dumb Cat to get any dumber. Strangely enough, I feel no such urge to help the Republicans.
Lee from NC
Also cool, Obama himself is staying "above the fray". He continues courting the Republicans and inviting them to dinner while these ads run and the Republicans themselves continue to stab him (and Americans) in the back. Hahahahahahaha.
Faux News
Well Doug I guess the R’s are busy forging a permanent minority, so let’s not get in their way.
ksmiami
The wierd thing about the Repub (mis) calculation in all this posturing is that by so vociferously lining up to see the Democrats fail and by doing nothing, the Repubs that are in office also take a risk that their own constituents will replace them too if things don’t improve… I mean "Don’t blame me, I did not do ANYTHING" is hardly the best re-election justification…
anonevent
We have two tests going on: 1. Did Obama understand that his bipartisan overtures would not net anything. 2. Did the Republicans realize that there would be a response to their partisanship.
I believe that Obama realized that would happen because I have not seen any indication that this has frustrated him. As for the Republicans, we’ll see over the next couple of days.
p.a.
Wonderful. If the economy can show any sign of life by 2010 (unfortunately a big if IMHO), Rush’s radio listeners may constitute the only remaining members of the Republican Party. But they’ll be tough to beat in those Southern mayoral and city council races!
Brick Oven Bill
Obama was foolish for naming Rush Limbaugh. Obama has now made Rush his debating partner. I believe that the intention is to institute ‘local programming’, or the ‘fairness doctrine’, or something similar, to silence the national radio voices.
A logical progressive would do this. Obama has removed his ability to quietly silence these messages.
Media Browski
I’m going to believe that this quote is half-snark, and still point out that these are the guys who thought you could lie your way into a war without suffering severe electoral penalties when the electorate figures it out.
Anyway, Obama has hit upon (ok, it’s a vision thing, so what?) a strategy that really can’t fail: get the GOP to run against America.
Anyone up for celebrating with a pancake jamboree?
MattF
This is excellent news for Republicans.
Media Browski
@Brick Oven Bill: Um, Obama vs. Rush (squinting eyes, imagining how this turns out) . . . and you call that foolish?
I call it picking your opponent’s weakest champion to defend him, and somehow having him agree to the challenge!
Comrade Jake
@Brick Oven Bill:
Seek therapy, will you? You’re suffering from paranoid delusions, or delusions of grandeur, take your pick.
sgwhiteinfla
DougJ
I think you are missing a "see" between the words didn’t and this coming.
As for the ads the Republicans are at JV level while President Obama is in the pro bowl. He couldn’t have played this any better in terms of making himself look compromising, concilliatory, and bi partisan. Now all he had to do was wait for them to act predictibly and pull out the paint brush to finish the rest of the picture.
Put it this way, President Obama knows with his agenda this economic stimulus bill is just the tip of the iceberg of the spending he is about to introduce. So the more he discredits the Rethugs now, the less anyone will be listening to them when they give the same protests when he introduces green energy legislation and universal health care legislation. Those ads will work to overcome the effect of the MSM putting on every Republican they could find in the last week to oppose the stimulus. And the great thing is you with an ad as opposed to a Democratic surrogate you don’t have to worry about Tweety saying dumb shit and asking ignorant question making them look foolish.
And here is the thing we should all be mindful of when they talk about taking things out of this stimulus bill. For one President Obama through Robert Gibbs has already said that the contraceptives provision will still be put in place just by a different mechanism. So if we knew that anything that was pulled out would be added to a later bill isn’t that a pretty good price to pay if it helps to shine the light on the Rethugs as operating in bad faith and being led by the nose by Rush Limbaugh? I for one think its worth it.
JL
@Brick Oven Bill: Definitely good news for repubs. Are you related to Mark Halperin?
Rainy
Here is the audio for the radio ads. This link is for the one in Nevada. It’s great! Republicans don’t realize that when people lose their jobs and lose their homes, they look to the government. That means they are paying close attention to what government does. This past election caused people to pay much attention to politics. That’s a bad thing for Republicans.
http://aufc.3cdn.net/5acbace37ebca6e852_6dm6b6orf.mp3
John Cole
What I just love to death is that the Republicans are trying to frame the debate as such:
It is not partisan politics for every Republican in the house to vote against a stimulus bill that included a lot of stuff they demanded with the hopes that it fails and they regain power in 2010.
It IS partisan politics for liberal advocacy groups to show what was in the bill for each and every district in the country, letting the people decide whether or not their representative did the right thing.
Scott
Big mistake on Obama’s part. Doesn’t he realize that the GOP base loves Limbaugh? Doesn’t he realize that he’s running the risk of losing that 20% of the electorate forever? This is definitely good news for the Republicans. I’ve got to wonder if it’s time to declare the Obama presidency a failure and — OW! OWWW!
Dangit, thinking like the corporate media really does hurt your brain…
les
@Comrade Jake:
Delusions of moronity, more like. At least it’s a standard he sometimes achieves.
norbizness
I like it; quarantine and minimize.
DougJ
Thanks. I fixed it.
Fencedude
@Scott:
Big mistake on Obama’s part. Doesn’t he realize that the GOP base loves Limbaugh?
Except he doesn’t give a flying fart about the GOP Base, thats not who this is aimed at.
aimai
Oh my g-d that audio link was a thing of beauty. Rush and the Republicans are not just being sistah soljahed, they are being Ward *&^% Churchilled and Willie Horton’d. I think I have to lie down after listening to that. Don’t anyone disturb this beautiful moment.
aimai
blogenfreude
IMHO Obama did the right thing, but now should not bother to mention Limbaugh again and leave that fight to others. Don’t dignify him.
Media Browski
@les: Ah! BOB is the local troll. I was so taken in by the warm baked reasonableness of brick oven pizza.
At least now I know what I’m doing on Sunday: making a nice beer and honey crust pizza dough!
Deborah
Democrats learning to counterpunch—that’s change I can believe in.
Has hell frozen over?
"Don’t blame me, I did not do ANYTHING" is hardly the best re-election justification…
Good point. And it’s good to be running ads NOW while the party leadership is apparently willing to say on camera "We really hope things are seriously in the toilet in 2010."
Obama was foolish for naming Rush Limbaugh. Obama has now made Rush his debating partner.
No. The Republicans were foolish for letting Obama cast Rush as their leader and champion and representative in debates. Never let the other side choose your spokesmodel. Rush may have a fervid base, but most of the country doesn’t find "I follow Rush Limbaugh!" an inspiring statement of governing philosophy from their
congressional representatives. I’m not sure who else they’d cast at this point in the purge and blaming and attempts to hold onto power, but surely "Pawlenty" or "Romney" would be more dignified representatives of all that is Republican. To start with, neither has been brought up on drug charges, neither is divorced, and both have managed to garner approval while holding public office.
Bob In Pacifica
This week the political reporters for the SF Chronicle, the Hearst flagship, has been defining everything as a defeat for Obama. Republican intransigence in the House is because Obama is weak.
As funny as that is, the Republicans refusing to push back the digital TV conversion was announced as a huge Obama fail. WTF?
John Boehner, there’s 11% unemployment in your district. What stimulus are you against again?
The Moar You Know
@Brick Oven Bill: A serious question. Why would Obama want to silence the opposition?
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
Why the Republicans didn’t see this kind of thing coming, I can’t say.
Because they have the foresight and attention span of a mayfly?
Brick Oven Bill
Obama wins on TV. Rush wins before the microphone. If the goal is to consolidate power, as I believe it is, the microphones need to be quieted. Bad move making this a Rush-Obama thing, because nobody likes an official using the power of his office to win a debate.
I priced pizza ingredients at Sam’s yesterday, and the price of the ingredients is $1.57, not $1.81. This is a lower, but more accurate number. Cheese is definitely cheaper. I know for a fact that it was above $12 not less than a month ago. It is now $9.72. In the wake of the $918 billion, this cheese number will be tracked.
Geithner.
Fencedude
@Brick Oven Bill:
I believe that the intention is to institute ‘local programming’, or the ‘fairness doctrine’, or something similar, to silence the national radio voices.
Someone suggested once that Obama should issue an executive order or something permanently banning the "Fairness Doctrine"
Shortly thereafter Talk Radio would cease to be a problem, due to a sudden outbreak of exploding heads.
renegademom3
@Brick Oven Bill:
Obama has no interest in silencing anyone, especially the opposition.
This stuff doesn’t bother him because he has taken his EGO out of his work.
God bless Eckhart Tolle.
Mrs. Peel
I don’t know. From the feedback I’m reading, every time Limpballs name gets mentioned he’s in hog heaven.
Even SF Chronicle political editor, Joe Garofoli, – who I know personally and is as good a Dem as they come – writes crap like this:
"But in citing Limbaugh as influential, the president of the United States elevated a talk show host to his level – the leader of the free world."
They paint a picture that it’s a huge mistake to even acknowledge Rush’s existence. All this 20/20 hindsight and hand wringing gets on my nerves and I may have to smack Joe up side his head next time I see him, but he’s not the only one beating this drum. And there may be some truth to the matter that I’m just not seeing at this point.
Deborah
Obama had a strategy in which both branches (Rs accept overtures and vote for stimulus bill; Rs reject overtures and hope on record that economy is in the toilet in 2 years) led to victory. Which you can do with high approval ratings and both houses of congress, but still, I’m amazed the Republicans took this particular branch. And are now compounding it by admitting that they can’t keep the guys running for RNC chair straight, either, and so will go with Rush as leader.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
Brick Oven Bill isn’t deluded… he really is a moron.
Deborah
If the goal is to consolidate power, as I believe it is, the microphones need to be quieted.
The goal is to get stuff done. This is not a secret; it’s been his stated agenda.
Trying to silence the microphones of talk radio and the typing fingers of the blogosphere would not work, so that would be a really really stupid goal.
Fwiffo
Republican senators have already started making much more submissive noises than their counterparts in the house. Many of them come from states Obama won, sometimes by large margins, whereas the only Republicans left in the house came from really conservative districts. The ladies from Maine, for instance, have actually talked about a bigger, more spendy bill than Obama has.
Look for 6-8 Republican senators to be willing to go along with whatever stimulus package the chamber comes up with.
ksmiami
Again. the MSM blathers on with idiots like Halperin and Brooks, but when people are losing their homes and their livelihoods, they actually – you know expect the government to do SOMETHING, not NOTHING. There is a great post on Kos today about FDR’s re-election where he won every state and a huge percent of the PV cause the Reps thought socialist fashion shows would show the American public the error of the New Deal. Instead it gave the democrats legislative control for 60 years.
Now I am sure the stimulus bill will go through another iteration of change in the senate and that will probably be okay and then some of the Repubs in the house will re-vote for the measure and then what? What was the effin point? Will people even remember anything but fat Rush Rimjob becoming the face of the Republican party?
steve
RUSH !!!!!
Lee from NC
@Rainy:
Swoon. Love the ad. I don’t know why I keep doubting Obama. During the primaries, during the GE, and still even now I keep thinking he’s caving or not being aggressive enough and he shows me wrong every time. He’s a real master of the rope-a-dope.
kay
I don’t know.
40 Republicans voted for S-CHIP in the House. That’s less than voted for it in 2008. It’s a popular program, it’s particularly crucial now (lay offs) and it’s "federalist" in design, ie: the state’s make the decisions.
It works, too. There’s broad agreement that giving children preventative care is cheaper than the emergency room, so it’s cost-effective, because most kids are healthy.
The Senate vote on S-CHIP is almost worse than the House, because people keep telling me they’re the "moderates".
I think they’re actually going further Right.
gwangung
That might be a gaffe—except the Republican party has whole-heartedly embraced it and made it a part of their functional platform. It’s that following reaction that’s bigger news.
No, reporters are being dumb about this–dumb in their own field.
The Moar You Know
@Rainy: Oh my. Oh fucking yes. Finally. The Dems come out swinging. That is a thing of beauty.
Next up, I want: "Why do Republicans hate America?" Shit, that ad almost goes there…but I want someone to actually say the words.
libarbarian
So, has anyone actually watched "The Third Jihad" that PJ-media keeps advertising on the left sidebar.
Is it funny?
Leo
@Brick Oven Bill:
Nope. Give Rush as big a microphone as you can and encourage him to keep talking. Nothing could be better for Democrats.
It’s amazing that Republicans can’t see what’s happening because it’s almost exactly the same strategy they used to tear apart the left in the 60s and 70s. Focus attention on the more extreme elements of the party and let the moderates decide whether to renounce them (pissing off the base) or embrace them (pissing off moderates). Just substitute ditto-headed racists for the dirty fucking hippies.
jamfan
Mrs. Peel @34:
The SF Chron’s worry —
— has it exactly backward. Obama in no way elevated a talk show host to his level; he diminished the Republican Party to the level of a talk show host.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
@Lee from NC: I don’t know why I keep doubting Obama.
I have difficulty with it too. After all these years of craven capitulating Dems, it’s hard to accept that one could actually stand up to the Redoublechins.
TheFountainHead
@jamfan: Precisely. Or as my father would say, "You’ve made your bed, now lie in it."
Rommie
The way I see it, the Big O put Rush in the spotlight *because* he’s the de-facto leader of the party! The lack of protests from the party faithful act as confirmation that, yes, RL is speaking for us.
It’s not a mistake to elevate him to Obama’s level, because the spotlight makes it clear Rush Limbaugh is NOT on Obama’s level, and by association, the Republican Party. Sometimes the best way to expose a fraud is to give them everything they want, and watch them fail as their egos prevent a graceful exit.
It’s brilliant – the frog happily hopped into the boiling water, and is laughing because it "outsmarted" the owner and is getting to swim all it wants.
kay
Eleven House members who voted against S-CHIP in 2008 lost their seats. The response to that is to whip more of them into voting against it?
Left Coast Tom
I think that’s true. We were assured all along, "he’s just an entertainer". Assuming we weren’t lied to all along, for him, any publicity would be good publicity.
Why anyone, the GOP, the media, would think this helps the GOP will have to remain a mystery to me.
demimondian
@kay: The House Republican Caucus *is* shifting to the right, which is natural in the current environment. Between the gerrymandering of marginal R districts leading to them become marginal D districts (which pulls the D caucus to the center) and the effects of the Club for Growth primarying centrist R’s in farther right districts, the House R caucus is becoming more partisan and, interestingly, less relevant.
(And, yes, that’s exactly what the GOS is trying to do to the House Dem caucus. It’s one of the drawbacks of primarying poor representatives of your party.)
Media Browski
@Leo: Exactly. The more he talks and the more they follow his "lead," the more marginalized they become from the "Coalition of the Reasonable" that Obama has proven so adept at assembling.
Brick Oven Bill is giving us a great demonstration of why this is working: the conservatives are not only genetically incapable of understanding this strategy, but they are unable to even understand its goals.
joe from Lowell
Bob Shrum? Is that you?
"Just ignore those crazy Swift Boat guys. It’s only a story if YOU make it one, John. Don’t dignify this crap with a response. Taking them on would only raise them to your level."
So…how’d that work out again?
demimondian
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist: That’s not what happened, though.
Obama has done what any good leader does — let his surrogates attack his opponents, while he himself stays above the fray. That’s what the R’s wanted to do, as well — let Dobson, Limbaugh, and the like spread the hate, while the leaders in Congress and the states played the middle.
Unfortunately, Limbaugh, in particular, won’t sit still for that, and demands fealty from the R’s. His repeated demands for craven apologies and the like have made him the _de facto_ leader of the party, which is going to hurt the R’s.
(The parallel between what the D’s are doing with Limbaugh and what the R’s are trying to do with Franken is not lost on me.)
Punchy
I think what the Republicans meant was "buy partisanship", wherein the Dems give them whatever they want, like tax cuts and hookers and blow, in exchange for Yes votes.
CT
Its pure brilliance to call out Rush-in the interest of attention, he will always frame things in offensive, over-the-top ways (remember Michael J. Fox?). This plays great in the community of ditto-heads, but looks terrible in the real world-same with his "I hope he fails" comment. He has great influence, but only among a group of folks who would never support Obama in a million years, and have no solutions to offer. He has no power to hinder Obama, but he is useful to hang around the necks of the House repubs, since they agree-Rush is their voice, and they don’t dare cross him. Obama may indeed be elevating Rush, but he’s elevating him to a level where he’s clearly way out of his league, like a good high school player jumping to the NBA and getting schooled. Just think of Rush as a poor man’s Kwame Brown.
woody
@Lee from NC: I don’t know why I keep doubting Obama.
Because he’s a compromiser.
He’d rather have a ‘deal,’ than defend a principle.
Compromisers go into negotiations already ready to give something away; which might be okay, unless what they were willing to give away was something you valued…or needed.
John S.
Which was confirmed by GOP party flacks genuflecting before Rush after committing the grave sin of criticizing him.
In other news, Brick Oven Bill still has no fucking clue, and I for one don’t care what he has to say unless he manages to somehow tie his rants in with The Great Shale Oil Conspiracy™.
kay
@demimondian:
The Death Spiral. That’s what Nate Silver is calling the political effect of what you’re describing.
I love that idea, but I’m not sure I’m convinced. How many books and op-eds were written about the Demise of the Democratic Party? Then we had the Permanent Republican Majority. Now we have…whatever this is.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
@demimondian: Obama has done what any good leader does—let his surrogates attack his opponents, while he himself stays above the fray.
Fair enough. In any case, it is a strange and wond’rous thing to see after all this time.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
When Rush Limbaugh said "racism is the exclusive province of the left," who does he think will believe that? Is he saying that just to piss off liberals? Are there people who think, "hey, I’m not racist – I just hate black people"?
Lee from NC
I think the idea that Obama elevated Rush Limbaugh to anything is silly on the face of it. Limbaugh was already a national figure. I’d bet that a large majority of the people in this country know who he is. I’d also bet that a lot of the people who know him as a radio personality are not aware of just how extreme he is.
I think putting Limbaugh (and, by extension, the Republicans) in the spotlight to show just how extreme they really are is a good thing.
Brian J
@John Cole at 18:
They also might be afraid that the notion of them opposing something as basic as contraceptives for women becomes a permanent part of their image, and not in a good way, to the public. If they want to look like backwards goons and remain in the political wilderness, this is the way to go.
magisterludi
Most Americans think of Limpy as a drug-addled, lecherous shock jock of the hard right. He also recently and famously wished failure on the O administration, therefore wishing ill for all America.
Win- Obama
sparky
we have seen this play before. it was known as "Do Not Overinflate" starring Father Coughlin.
Apsaras
What’s great about this is that MoveOn and the Democrats are clearly doing unto others what was done unto them. It really is about naming your adversary and, more specifically, naming your adversary’s spokesman. Remember 2002 and 2004? How the GOP and their allies were able to browbeat democrats into acquiesence on things like the "war on terror" because said democrats wanted to differentiate themselves from that sinister leftist Michael Moore?
Brian J
I hope every single Republican who voted against it is reminded of this when he or she is running for reelection. This really was a vote against children.
kay
"Ideology doesn’t appear to be the determining factor when it comes to ratings for reporters. The highest unfavorables are earned by Rush Limbaugh (62%) and Larry King (46%). Couric (42%) and O’Reilly (41%) are the only other reporters to top the 40% mark in unfavorables."
I just thought that was interesting. It’s Rasmussen, 2007.
Rush isn’t broadly popular. 62% unfavorable is huge.
kay
@Brian J:
That’s what is surprising to me. Because Rahm Emanuel is big on children’s health care, and he threatened to target the "no" voters, in 2007, he had a "casualty list" and it has 11 names on it. They lost their seats.
Ash Can
OK, teaching opportunity here. Those of us who are old enough to remember it/not willfully ignorant/otherwise knowledgeable know that the Fairness Doctrine, rather than preventing the expression of any given opinion or viewpoint on the airwaves, required radio and TV station owners to grant equal air time to anyone who wanted to present an opposing opinion or viewpoint. Ronald Reagan did away with the Fairness Doctrine because doing so paved the way for the establishment of right-wing one-note screamers (to use Dick Durbin’s term) who could theoretically help galvanize a Permanent GOP Majority (TM) voting base via their propaganda, and let the robber barons in the broadcast media make a ton of dough at the same time. Therefore, when Rush Limblow wails that the re-establishment of the Fairness Doctrine would silence him, he’s doing it because he knows damned well that, if his show were to be followed — or better yet, preceded — by a show of equal length featuring people explaining exactly why he was full of shit, the radio audience would start to see him as the odious fraud he actually is and stop listening to his dreck. Ratings decline, sponsors withdraw, microphones go dark. The end.
Brian J
I think you have it right. It’s not so much that Obama is trying to single out Limbaugh as a Republican leader. It’s that he has to respond to someone, and it looks as if Limbaugh, more than anyone else including elected Republican leaders, is calling the shots. Look no further than the House member who had to crawl back to the Big Fat Idiot with his tail between his legs and apologize a few days after making a critical comment.
Once the Republicans offer up someone who doesn’t resemble a five-year-old screaming "NO!!!!!!!!! I WANTZ TAX CUTZZZZZ!!!!!! every time a proposal is offered, he’ll talk to them instead.
Brian J
@kay:
What, exactly, is their defense going to be? It’s one thing to vote against measures related to adults in some way, but this is a direct vote against giving children some safety in a time of uncertainty. Their only reasonable course of action is to claim that it was simply too much money and that they oppose things like it because, well, just because. Something tells me that isn’t going to win them any votes they wouldn’t have already received.
Apsaras
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: The latter, mostly. Rush isn’t out to convince anyone, he’s admitted as much. But there are about twenty million Americans who despite believing a lot of nineteenth century garbage about Blacks being "morally inferior" or whatever, don’t like to consider themselves racist. So they come up with all sorts of elaborate justifications, and lo and behold there’s a funny man on the radio who says the things they think.
Shit, we all do it. Keith Olbermann is far from perfect, but I watch him anyway. "Finally," I thought when I started watching Countdown, "an angry white blowhard on the television box for me!"
Cyrus
@Deborah:
This is backwards. The Republicans were foolish for making Rush their leader and champion and representative in debates. There’s no plausible deniability of it any more when a Republican Congressman offers civil, 100 percent accurate criticisms of him one day and gets overwhelmed with criticism from his own voters and does a complete about-face the following day.
The Moar You Know
@libarbarian: No, but I’d like to. The plot seems…familiar. Oh wait. I’ve got it:
Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Knew I’d seen that "supersecret manifesto" thing somewhere else.
demimondian
@kay: I was thinking of Nate’s comment when I wrote this, and I don’t think I agree with him about its severity, even though I do agree that he’s identified something which is really happening. I don’t see this as a death spiral for the R’s, but rather as one of the periodic shifts in American politics.
Mitch McConnell isn’t stupid, even if he (like Reid) is an at-best-competent nebbish whipsawed by his caucus’ desire for protection. He, at least, is already talking about "regional party status", and the like. The R’s *will* find a message; there is no permanent Democratic majority.
As to what it is? I expect to see a harsh anti-immigrant (specifically anti-Hispanic) message across Iowa and the upper midwest, and I expect that message to be very effective there.
liberal
@Ash Can:
The key word there is airwaves. Point being that the public owns the electromagnetic spectrum, so the public can set rules on its use.
comrade rawshark
He’s a politician and politics is about compromise. That’s why religion has no business in politics. If you think you’re doing Gods work you CAN NOT compromise*.
*Paraphrasing Goldwater.
Gregory
@Brick Oven Bill:
Rush was going to continue spreading bullshit about Obama regardless. Obama made it clear that he welcomes honest debate and expects Rush to lose. Hell, Rush expects to lose an honest debate too — that’s why he chooses dishonesty.
Silence? Hardly. All the fairness doctrine required was that stations that use the public airwaves air opposing voices and not allow one point of view to dominate. There it is again — this hyperventilation about the Fairness Doctrine is a tacit admission that conservative talk radio can’t stand up to scrutiny or challenge.
Personally, I’d be more interested in revoking the Reagan era changes to ownership rules and break up some of these big media corporations.
Tom Hilton
@Mrs. Peel: yeah, Joe Garofali is definitely my favorite political reporter on the Chron…but that story was a real WTF? for me. I think Jamfan has it exactly right.
The point of mentioning Limbaugh was a) to drive a wedge between some Congressional Republicans and their ideological extremists, or, failing that, b) to tie them all inextricably to the confrontational, base-reducing figure of Limbaugh. With that Gingrey guy, he actually accomplished both.
demimondian
@comrade rawshark: There is a place for true believers in politics — Goldwater himself *was* a true believer, after all. It’s just that if you are such a true believer, you need to be willing to be disappointed when things don’t go your way.
DougJ
If they do that, they really are in a death spiral. If Republicans manage to turn Latinos into as solid a Democratic voting bloc as African-Americans, they’re toast for a generation.
I don’t think they’re that dumb, though.
Conservatively Liberal
Fix’t. Crematory Oven Bill is a legend in his own mind.
Damn that is great! I had to smoke a cig afterward.
Obama is playing the right like a violin and while the sound is akin to that of skull-fucked kittens being tossed in the wood chipper, I have to admit that I am enjoying it. He just calmly keeps rolling along and they get more and more outrageous. The calmer he gets, the nastier they get.
When I first got married, my wife worked at a pizza parlor. One of the employees was a real ass and made her work miserable when he was there. Since he was an assistant manager all she could do was do her job or quit. After listening to her complaints I gave her a few tips guaranteed to get his goat. Over time I had gathered the impression that this guy gets angry real fast so we turned that to her advantage.
Every time he would blow up, rather than reacting to that she would just calmly listen to him and smile. The angrier he got, the more she smiled. This went on for less than a month before the management fired him when he lost it and when busted he tried to blame my wife for his behavior. The owner came in during one if his tirades and asked what the hell was going on. He told his story and my wife told hers. As she calmly explained what had been going on he totally lost it, but my wife stayed calm. In the end he was fired and ended up being escorted from the place.
My wife said it was hilarious when he was trying to explain to the owner that his problem with my wife was that she smiled and it made him angrier than he would ‘normally get’.
She got his job because the owner was impressed with her calm demeanor, and later she went on to be the manager. I learned long ago that if someone has buttons you can push and set them off then you can use those buttons to your advantage if the need arises. Obama is pushing buttons and getting the responses he is seeking.
There is a new kid in town and he said he was bringing change with him. It seems he was telling the truth, and I find that refreshing. A Democrat with a spine, go figure.
John Cole
Wanna bet? Read this:
It is simmering below the surface right now, but it will blow wide open soon. They have barely been keeping themselves composed, but an old issue like immigration will cause a volcanic eruption. Just wait.
SGEW
If only it were that simple. Not to pull a Dr. Frist here and do a long-range pop diagnosis, but I am pretty convinced that Bill is . . . um . . . well, "funny in the head." You know. "Funny."* Something that lights up more than a few warning bells in the DSM-IV index. Srsly. Seek help, dude.
. . .
To tell the truth, I don’t know how I feel about B.O. Bill becoming the resident troll – whether it speaks to the new age of the post-Bush blogosphere (i.e., B.O.B. is the best the right wing can come up with – literally) or sets a very dangerous precedent. Mental illness is not a laughing matter [edit for clarification: this is post-ironic].
*Reference @1:50
TR
Colbert had a brilliant proposal last night — if these congressmen are so sure that this stimulus package is a bad idea, they should pledge not to accept a cent of it in their home districts.
Reminds me of Michael Moore, back when he was still funny, on his show TV Nation. Drove around Cobb County asking Newt’s constituents if they really didn’t want any federal money in their district (one of the biggest pork getters in the country), and then proceeded them to stop driving on the highway, going to work at Lockheed, etc. etc.
kay
@Brian J:
What, exactly, is their defense going to be? It’s one thing to vote against measures related to adults in some way, but this is a direct vote against giving children some safety in a time of uncertainty.
I’m wary of emotional arguments with children because I think it makes for poor decisions, and can be manipulative. I represent them, exclusively, and I don’t rely on that. I like to keep it practical. I agree with you, personally, however.
The argument they are using with S-CHIP is over funding. It’s to be funded with a tax on cigarettes. Republicans want it to fund it with a reduction in Medicaid payment to the states. They also have a dog-whistle. They want to exclude the children of LEGAL immigrants for 5 years: you arrive with kids, you wait 5 years for S-CHIP.
Samuel
That’s not exactly what happened, but if that’s the narrative that the Democrats figure will play in the sticks, then so be it. Republicans are no geniuses, but it looks like the Democrats are still up to their old tricks–demagoguery and scare tactics–dogs that they are.
The fact of the matter is that this "stimulus" bill is a pork barrel, politcal spenders wet dream. There’s no stimulus in it. OK–so Obama throws the Republicans a bone by not including landscaping the Washington Mall as "stimulus", and that’s considered "bi-partisan"? When politicians tell us to go along with some proposal because "time is running out"–that’s the time to slow down.
Too bad the Republicans didn’t realize they were suppposed to be fiscal conservatives for the past eight years. But that doesn’t preclude the same old Democrats from cramming a shit sandwich down our throats because our government has "to do something"….
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
@Samuel: When politicians tell us to go along with some proposal because "time is running out"—that’s the time to slow down.
Couldn’t agree more – the PATRIOT act was a major fascist crudpile.
Samuel
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist: I agree 100%
Jess
It’s clear that Obama took notes during the Palin trainwreck, and is setting up Rush as the next GOP public relations disaster.
[cackles, rubs hands…]
ricky
And just why not? You have as much right to prove your limited medical proficiency as Dr. Frist.
Unless of course you are talking about his feline practice.
Comrade Darkness
"I believe that the intention is to institute ‘local programming’, or the ‘fairness doctrine’, or something similar, to silence the national radio voices."
Why would Obama want a fairness doctrine? That would only slow down the self-marginalizing self-destruction of of the media.
Leave them the rope where they can reach it.
Reverend Dennis
Just what I was thinking. Likewise Westbrook Pegler and Walter Winchell. They were each immensely influential until events passed them by without their noticing. Events are overtaking Limbaugh without his notice as well. The fact that his bloviations are bound to slip into the unforgivable combined with the inevitable repossessions of his listeners’ pickup trucks will only hasten his fall.
The Other Steve
If so why didn’t the Republicans suggest something?
Samuel
@The Other Steve:
They did. They put up an alternative bill…it was voted down for obvious reasons.
Ash Can
@liberal: Definitely. In fact, I had typed "which are assumed to be publicly owned" as a parenthetical phrase immediately following what you cited. I struck it, though, because I thought I was getting too wordy even for my own taste. :)
jake 4 that 1
We are talking about the same people who were shocked, shocked, when America didn’t go for Senator Lumpy McPallor and Governor Youbetchya Also.
Reverend Dennis
Because it was a hodgepodge of tax cuts (Zero taxes = Infinite revenue – right?) and the other grand Republican ideas that got us into this mess?
kay
@Samuel:
Sam, the GOP House bill had tax cuts and an extension of unemployment insurance. That’s not a stimulus package. That’s what every Republican says every day.
Why didn’t the Bush tax cuts create jobs? We should be throwing off excess jobs, by now.
Comrade Darkness
Obama is playing this one well. He’s saying to the republicans: do you want to govern or do you want to be Rush Limbaugh? It’s only about 20 years too late for this flippin’ ultimatum to have been made. Clinton should have made it, but he was way too weak. Glad to see we have a president lacking "everyone must love me" disease.
"Brick Oven Bill isn’t deluded… he really is a moron.
If only it were that simple."
He isn’t either. He’s a spoof troll. GAH. Had a busy week of work… has there been some kind of consensus to pretend BOB is a real troll because the commenters need someone to play off of?
demimondian
@Comrade Darkness: I’ve been arguing that there are two possibilities: BOB is a real troll, in which case making fun of him exposes the bankruptcy of the ideology he espouses, or he’s a spoof troll, in which case making fun of him exposes the bankruptcy of the ideology he espouses. The only question is whether he’s in on the game or not.
Cpl. Cam
Meh. We dems still suck at this. "Unlike Rush I don’t hope this plan fails, but I believe it will fail to provide jobs and stimulate our economy which is why I can’t in good concsious vote for it." Easy, even I could side step that one.
TenguPhule
Yes, because it was stimulus.
It was pure 100% tax cuts.
So until Democrats spend over 5 trillion, all of the Republicans need to shut up and bend over.
Maus
Being an insincere liar could vaguely be considered a personality disorder i guess, but I doubt I would consider him anything more than a troll, there are far too many people who share and condition his cowardly behavior for me to consider it a mental illness.
TenguPhule
Fixed.
Rassfrassin uneditable.
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@anonevent:
Actually, we have a president who is so cool under pressure that even if he were frustrated, you wouldn’t know it.
Ash Can
At the risk of piling on, @Samuel:
Adjusted for clarity.
Let me put it this way — when you whine about the Democrats’ profligacy, you’re holding up a turd for all of us to see. But keep in mind that you’re facing us, and we’re facing you. From where we’re standing, we’re able to look straight past you and that little turd in your hand at the whopping huge landfill of manure right behind you with the big, bright neon sign over it that reads "Republican Spending, Fiscal and Monetary Policies." You may want to find some other place to stand.
J Royce
If the media is "liberal" as the Conservatives relentlessly claim, they would WANT a Fairness Doctrine so they can get their views out.
Obviously these hypocrites know they are lying about that. Also.
Deborah
This is backwards. The Republicans were foolish for making Rush their leader and champion and representative in debates.
Okay, the Republicans did it themselves–the left plucking him at random a la the right and Michael Moore wouldn’t work–but Obama and others are successfully feeding the Republican-generated meme that the fat guy is their spokesmodel. None dares gainsay the suggestion, after all, lest the dittoheads fall upon them. And Rush seems eager to charge in and lead his people.
As Nate Silver has pointed out, this is not expanding the base or convincing moderates to stay in the party.
Deborah
This is backwards. The Republicans were foolish for making Rush their leader and champion and representative in debates.
Okay, the Republicans did it themselves–the left plucking him at random a la the right and Michael Moore wouldn’t work–but Obama and others are successfully feeding the Republican-generated meme that the fat guy is their spokesmodel. None dares gainsay the suggestion, after all, lest the dittoheads fall upon them. And Rush seems eager to charge in and lead his people.
As Nate Silver has pointed out, this is not expanding the base or convincing moderates to stay in the party.
Media Browski
@Samuel: "The fact of the matter is that this "stimulus" bill is a pork barrel, politcal spenders wet dream. There’s no stimulus in it." Never read Keynes, huh?
Why is it that the party that claims to be made up of people who are economics-literate always features commenters who obviously never took/understood econ 101?
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@jamfan:
That’s exactly right.
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Apsaras:
I never considered the white aspect, but I certainly did attach myself to the angry component.
grandpajohn
Obama is pushing buttons and getting the responses he is seeking.
True, wonder if the repubs are ever going to wake up to the realization that 11/04 changed everything
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Reverend Dennis:
They don’t all drive pick-up trucks. Years ago Rush could be heard in my father’s Cadillac (they used to force me to listen to that shit on trips with them). More recently (a few years ago) I heard Rush bellowing from a United States Postal Service vehicle while she was delivering mail to my apartment complex. I wanted to tell her to stop poisoning her mind, but she was too busy.
steve
i heart rush
zzyzx
"The $800 billion-plus economic stimulus measure making its way through Congress could steer government checks to illegal immigrants, a top Republican congressional official asserted Thursday."
To bring this full circle, Rush was pushing that yesterday.
Samuel
@Ash Can: So why bitch about not being bipartisan…you have your "stimulus" bill….it will pass. Why do you care if the GOP votes on it or not. Obama doesn’t need them. Its political posturing on Obama’s part. When was the last time the Democratic policies of increased statsim ever worked before? The New Deal and its 15% unemployment? Or the Carter malaise? The Great Society?
Wile E. Quixote
@Samuel
Hey, sounds like the run-up to the Iraq war to me. Remember all of the shit that was being spouted about WMDs in Iraq? The Republicans told us that Iraq was chock full o’WMDs and that we couldn’t wait for inspections or anything else lest the smoking gun become a mushroom cloud.
Sorry Sammy, but after the last eight years the idea of listening to a Republican talk about fiscal prudence or not rushing into things has about the same appeal as getting a lecture on firearms safety from Dick Cheney.
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
You have to spend to stimulate. What part of this do you not understand?
The reason Bush’s spending didn’t stimulate is because he put money into the pockets of people who got rich by saving money (you cannot expect those people to spend the money given them) while taking it out of the pockets of people he expected to "go shopping". Obama is concentrating on giving back to those who can spend and put this economy back on the right track.
FourtyTwo
The fact of the matter is that this "stimulus" bill is a pork barrel, politcal spenders wet dream. There’s no stimulus in it.
Teh fact of the matter is, you blow goats.
Jeez, proof through assertion is easy!
Next up, watch as I effortlessly convict Alberto Gonzales of war crimes (stay tuned!)
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Wile E. Quixote:
Absolutely!
Samuel
@Wile E. Quixote: Fair point. I agree, Republicans don’t have any creditibility here, which I’m sure they realize and is frustrating them. Keep in mind, however, that the Democrats did nothing to stop the ridiculous spending over the past eight years either.
George Bush had no problem with government spending–but now the Democrats are saying that Bush is what got us here, so of course the obvious answer is……more spending. The polls show it too…the more people learn about it, the more they start wringing their hands.
FourtyTwo
@ 122 – "Its political posturing on Obama’s part."
Boo hoo, do you want a tissue?
Elections have conseqences, remember? Now shut up while we fix this fucking mess.
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
Apparently you missed that part where he’s trying to create bipartisanship? He even added in some of the things the Republicans wanted. He is trying to be their president too. Did you happen to hear him say that he wanted to be president of ALL Americans?
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
Granted the Dems didn’t have a backbone, but the problem with how we got here falls on the Repubs, not the Dems who didn’t find the gumption to say "no, that’s not a good idea".
Samuel
@The Silent Fiddle of Nero: I’ve heard alot of politicians say alot of things…
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
And your point is?
Watch Obama DO not just say!
If he fails at unifying bipartisanship, it will not be because he didn’t try. It will be because of Republican obstructionism.
Samuel
@The Silent Fiddle of Nero:
Oh yes…of course…
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
Then what is it?
Samuel
Sen. Max Baucus, Chairman Senate Finance Committee, after the Senate passed the Wall Street Bailout.
Yep–I’ve heard politicians say LOTS of things…
Samuel
@The Silent Fiddle of Nero: I understand you’re point. Of course, the Republicans are being obstructionists–EVERY politician needs to use this card, its a fight for ideas—but it’s not like the Democrats didn’t try to block everything George Bush tried to do either. But, wait—they’re just trying to save the country from ascendant conservative fascism, right?
The Republicans put forth a bill, and it failed to pass. It’s not like they didn’t offer any solutions of their own. Yes, yes, yes, I know..I know they have no credibility….
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
@Samuel:
WTF? You obviously have no clue what happened over the last eight years. Democrats didn’t challenge shit! They rolled over and played dead and only now might be actually starting to do their jobs, now that they are not the opposition.
demimondian
@Samuel: But Sammy, lovey, that’s what we’re saying. You guys *are* irrelevant.
This is a thread about us teaching that fact to the American people.
Media Browski
@Samuel:
And we’re waiting to hear one–any idea at all that hasn’t been thoroughly and completely debunked (tax cuts, I’m looking at you)–from the right.
I’m honestly expecting you all to embrace the gold standard in your quest to find the most perversely outdated economic theories you can find.
joe from Lowell
When was the last time the Democratic policies of increased statsim ever worked before?
Certainly not the seven years following the Largest Tax Increase in American History (ie, 1993-2000).
So, Newt, how’d that whole "soup lines" thing work out?
JWW
President Obama stepped outside of the integrity of the office too oppose Rush.
He has not yet gathered his mind and control of the position he now holds. He has no reason to debate or comment about an entertainer. Rush has no more power than the upper class of actors, actresses, millionaires and billionaires that run their ads, comments and otherwise personal feelings on our airwaves.
President Obama needs to look at what is taking place and use all of his assets to attempt to stave off further damage to the economy. Our Congress has some brains, but they are selective. They need to apply history and common sense, not I am better than you, I outnumber you or I am different than you.
We are a United States by choice and by our own war. Collectively we can provide an answer. Let the nutbags from both sides be nutbags. Let the president see this and come to a resolution.
He also needs to stop saying this country is going in the tank, he needs to provide an optimistic view. This type of view will go a long way to self healing without intervention.
Mnemosyne
Funny, when Sean Penn was running around spouting off about what a great guy Castro is, I don’t remember Democratic politicians tripping over one another to get to be the first one to defend him from the mean ol’ press because he’s "just an entertainer."
If Rush can snap his fingers and get a US Congressman to publicly apologize to him for a very mild criticism, guess what? He’s running things. He’s dictating policy. Heck, he picked McCain’s vice presidential candidate and boosted her for months before the election to get her the job. How’d that work out for you guys?
The Silent Fiddle of Nero
Rush is NOT an entertainer. He is a political hack. He talks about nothing but politics. He influences the right-wing (such as getting them to vote for Hillary in the primary so they’d have an easy target – luckily that failed) and as Mnemosyne alluded to above, he gets congresscritters to do his bidding. Furthermore, if he’s entertaining, he really needs to put together a new act, many of us don’t find him entertaining at all.