I’m not sure how long Olympia Snow will remain a Republican- she just seems too damned sane:
It was as though beginning with Senator Jeffords’s decision, Republicans turned a blind eye to the iceberg under the surface, failing to undertake the re-evaluation of our inclusiveness as a party that could have forestalled many of the losses we have suffered.
It is true that being a Republican moderate sometimes feels like being a cast member of “Survivor” — you are presented with multiple challenges, and you often get the distinct feeling that you’re no longer welcome in the tribe. But it is truly a dangerous signal that a Republican senator of nearly three decades no longer felt able to remain in the party.
Senator Specter indicated that his decision was based on the political situation in Pennsylvania, where he faced a tough primary battle. In my view, the political environment that has made it inhospitable for a moderate Republican in Pennsylvania is a microcosm of a deeper, more pervasive problem that places our party in jeopardy nationwide.
I have said that, without question, we cannot prevail as a party without conservatives. But it is equally certain we cannot prevail in the future without moderates.
In that same vein, I am reminded of a briefing by a prominent Republican pollster after the 2004 election. He was asked what voter groups Republicans might be able to win over. He responded: women in general, married women with children, Hispanics, the middle class in general, and independents.
How well have we done as a party with these groups? Unfortunately, the answer is obvious from the results of the last two elections. We should be reaching out to these segments of our population — not de facto ceding them to the opposing party.
She seems to honestly have a grip on what is going on around her, and no doubt will need to be branded a heretic and drummed out of God’s Own Party. All that editorial space, and she didn’t take the time to praise tax cuts and talk about pork or call Michael Moore fat? Get rid of that RINO. She isn’t pure enough.
ronin122
Don’t forget, you can substitute Moore for Al Gore. Extra brownie points if you call them both fat (but has to be in the same sentence).
R-Jud
Judging by the reactions of other Republicans to this (“MOAR COWBELL!1!”) I think they’ll be making room for her in the Dem Caucus before long. Still, while she is being refreshingly honest, it isn’t quite enough. If she would:
1. Admit that Republican “policies” have screwed up the country, and
2. Come up with some actual feasible ideas for fixing our problems
rather than wringing her hands about the old glory days of governing majorities, I would be more impressed.
MattF
The Two Ladies from Maine are popular and stubborn– it wouldn’t surprise me if they stayed put just to put the fact to Cornyn and McConnell that they can do whatever they damn well please to.
Fencedude
See also: Wall, the Writing On
She sees it, I don’t think most of the others do.
rob
I’ve always liked her. I’m a southern progressive, some what liberal but can identify with a few conservative ideals. Even considered switching parties until I listened to the keynote speech delivered by this young state Senator from Illinois at the 2004 DNC. I guess Jesus saved me.
DBrown
I do not understand why the repub-a-thugs are choosing a critical political litmus test in a blue state like Pennsylvania against Spector? This is a lose-lose gamble and will only help the Democrats in 2010. Are they so far into the asses of the Christian Taliban that they can’t tell the difference between an election that they can win which further’s their cause and one that they will lose and cancel out any gain they achieve else where? Unless the US collapses in economic disarray, the party of hate and fear will continue its death spiral.
NonyNony
The difference between Snowe (and Collins for that matter) and Specter is that Specter is facing off against national party that is increasingly hostile towards him AND the Pennsylvania Republican Party has gone bugfuck insane. Apparently the Maine Republican Party is still somewhat sane and don’t seem to be actively trying to oust Snowe from her position. And while Michael Steele’s threats to use the RNC to “punish” Republicans who vote for things in Obama’s agenda actually was a real threat to Specter, Snowe knows that it’s an empty threat in Maine. Plus with Snarlin’ Arlen now making a clear example, if Steele says something stupid again she can just call him up and say “You know, I’ve been talking to my good buddy Harry Reid lately and he says to me ‘Olympia’, he says …” and pretty much hang up after that. Steele will get the message.
If the dynamics in Maine change, this could change of course. But right now the only way Snowe changes parties is if someone does something that is so offensive to her and/or her state that she feels the need to switch. The GOP is basically going to have to actively start pushing her out the way they did with Specter before she starts to think about it. (And then I think she’ll go the Jim Jeffords route and become an Independent, rather than going whole hog Democrat.)
Skepticat
She is very smart, pragmatic, and sensible. Could be why the national Republican party ran ads against her and Sen. Collins several years ago. Maine Republicans usually can be more accurately called independents, and I wouldn’t be surprised that if she were to switch her formal affiliation, it would be to I. I’d like to see her leave the party of hypocrisy and hindrance.
Cat Lady
The ladies from Maine are safe in perpetuity, regardless what the RNC does. When everyone has access to health care, the game is over. It’s actually over now, but the body is still twitching. Health care is the last hammer hit on the last nail in the coffin that holds the Republican rump. Bill Kristol knew it back in 1994. Once people can be guaranteed access to health care, they’ll be free to do whatever they want without being terrified to lose their job and health care.
As I’m listening to Joe Scar and Pat Buchanan, they’re waxing nostalgic about Reagan this and Reagan that, and how smart and appealing he was. It’s all they’ve got left. Pretty pathetic.
NonyNony
@DBrown:
It’s not so much that they’re in the pocket of the Christian Taliban. It might look like that, but it’s not really.
Speaking as someone who left the GOP a while back, but who has family and friends who still consider themselves Republicans, the best explanation I can give for it is that the GOP isn’t really a political party any more. It’s an “identity” that people wrap around themselves or a “tribe” that people belong to. It’s not a tool that is used to enact change that you want to see, it’s a set of “beliefs” (many contradictory) that everyone in the tribe must adhere to to be part of the tribe.
This was true even when I was still a Republican (early 90s – pre-Clinton nonsense). What’s happened over the last couple of decades (probably longer) is that the beliefs have become more restrictive – you cannot deviate from orthodoxy one little bit without being attacked. You must believe every single bit of Republican nonsense – all of it – and you have to be sincere about it or else you’re not really a Republican. Now, you see this sort of thing with partisan Democrats too – bandying about the term “DINO” when discussing a Dem politician who doesn’t conform to their definition of “What A Democrat Should Be”. The difference is that the folks who hold a kind of Democratic Orthodoxy are not in the party leadership – they tend to be people on the outside looking in because the Democratic leadership (and most left-leaning activist groups, actually) tend to be fairly pragmatic, results-oriented people. They don’t really care if you believe sincerely in something, they just care that you vote the right way. This leads to those pols (and those activist groups, actually) getting excoriated by activists who really want them to be “better people” rather than just vote the right way. Idealists vs. pragmatists, for the most part. (This is what leads to accusations that have been common over the past few decades that “Democrats Don’t Believe In Anything” or “The Democratic Party Doesn’t Stand For Anything”).
But the Republican leadership are exactly those kind of activists – people making lists of the “pure” and the “RINOs” and seeking to either shame the RINOs into orthodoxy or to force them out of the party. That’s the dynamic that’s going on right now – the Republicans have ceded control of the party to people like Limbaugh, Beck and other nutters who make up lists of Those Who Deviate From Orthodoxy and then berate those politicians until they come back to purity. Crazy way to run a political party, but that’s what they’re doing.
WereBear
Reagan was thirty darn years ago. Yet, since unions have been busted, health care has become a joke, and the economy is now the freebooting, reg-free, consequence-less paradise they dreamed of, perhaps they won’t get over it.
Having spent my adulthood under Republican Rule, I haven’t gotten over it, either.
The Grand Panjandrum
@NonyNony:
If anything he is a large part of the problem. Republicans seem to be following instructions from a mysterious, invisible cult leader exhorting them on to the “other world.” I expect to see most of the wingnuts to start wearing identical black Nikes any day now.
Teabaggers onward to Heaven’s Gate, as it were.
Aaron
The Republican brand has been built on never conceding a point or giving an inch. There is no room for compromise. From Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh on down, the party has taken what can perhaps be described as a break-but-don’t bend approach to politics.
When confronted with uncomfortable facts, argue semantics, lie, attack the source, argue another point entirely, or suddenly develop a case of the I-can’t-recalls.
The few Republicans who are willing to be pragmatic are no longer invited to the party.
Tom
I guess if the Republicans got their act together they would make certain that a pragmatic politician found his/her way to a leadership position. Snowe as Senate Minority Leader and Gov. Huntsman (UT) to replace Michael Steele would actually be a force to be reckoned.
On a side note, be sure to check out the garbage coming out of Tom Friedman today. What a hoot. We tortured and murdered torture suspects but that’s okay. How will AQ learn to love law and order without beatings, drownings, electrocution, and shooting of prisoners?
NonyNony
@Tom:
Thanks for the early morning laugh, Tom. We’re talking about a party that won’t stand up to a guy with a radio show without turning around and planting a big wet smooch on his ass and apologizing for saying mean things about him. Where the hell do you think they’d find the courage to put Olympia Snowe in as Minority Leader? The very definition of Not. Gonna. Happen.
SGEW
That’s quite a list. In fact, that’s rather more than half the country!
“Women in general.” Hah!
Comrade Darkness
I have said that, without question, we cannot prevail as a party without conservatives.
They better get cracking on finding some.
But it is equally certain we cannot prevail in the future without moderates.
Since they only have 3 of these, and none of the above, it begs the question of what they DO have.
Cat Lady
Michael Smerconish, the conservative Philly talk radio guy that shows up on MSNBC gets it. He’s the only one I’ve heard that can articulate the difference between Republicans and conservatives. As he said, Republicans exist to WIN ELECTIONS. That’s all. He said conservatives have imposed so many litmus tests to run, they’ve made winning elections impossible. That’s the right analysis, IMHO. It’s quite a dilemma they’ve got there.
Aaron
@WereBear:
That is a great point, Were. I think part of it is that the current Republican party is built on Myth. The Myth of rugged individualism (until a pandemic breaks out or a natural disaster), the myth of fiscal responsibility (until they are in charge), the myth the we only fight wars under the gravest of circumstances (unless a foreign country is not pro-American-business enough), etc.
When it comes to myths, Reagan is all of these wrapped up in one. Forget his many disasters, he was, and still is, the poster boy of Conservatism. That Republican’s can’t emerge from Reagan’s shadow indicates two things: 1) the party is so devoid of intellectual leadership that they need to turn to a fictionalized caricature of Reagan for any semblance of respectability, and 2) they are now sleeping in the bed they made. Demonizing dissent and purifying the party has led them to their current state. I am anticipating a statement from Boehner next week along the lines of “We are stuck in this hole, and the only way out is to keep digging”
Kirk Spencer
@NonyNony: Or shorter:
Every group has zealots. When the zealots are in charge, the group goes crazy.
schrodinger's cat
Olympia Snowe is extremely popular in Maine, her appeal goes beyond her party, to independents and even Democrats. When I lived in Maine, my friend a die hard Democrat used to volunteer in Snowe’s Bangor offices. Is she up for reelection in 2010?
Davis X. Machina
They are — well, Snowe at least is — pre-Reagan, Margaret Chase Smith-Ed Brooke-Jim Jeffords-George Aiken Republicans. (Collins is more of a Reaganaut.) That sort of business-class, goo-goo Republican still dominates the Maine state GOP, and that’s the world they care about. You could call their world view ‘parochial’, or you could call it ‘focused’. Both have formidable constituent service machines, and it really is all about the Pine Tree State with them. The Kittery bridge might as well not be there.
(Snowe is married to the state’s last GOP governor, BTW)
It was their party first. They’re going to wait for this nonsense to burn itself out, and then they’ll have their party back, even if they have to wait till hell freezes over. Neither of them will ever jump.
Napoleon
@schrodinger’s cat:
I think both Maine senators were reelected the last two (tough for Republicans) cycles, so its a while since one of them comes up again.
oh really
She’s not sane; she’s delusional. She has no idea what the Republican Party has become. Apparently, she thinks there is still a “moderate wing” of the GOP, when all that’s left is a moderate feather or two.
WereBear
Aaron @19:
Thanks, Aaron. I think every big organization has that mythos going; it’s what keeps everyone together.
You aren’t supposed to stray too far; you aren’t supposed to just take the mythos into a back alley and beat it on the head for the change in its pocket.
Andrew
The Maine Republicans are just politically pragmatic. They are Republicans simply because that was their route to power in Maine. They are far more liberal than many or most Southern Democrats.
schrodinger's cat
If the Republican party had more people like Snowe, they would be a much more formidable force in the northeast. They should be courting people like her not driving them away. I have always wondered if the the election would have closer had McCain picked Snowe instead of Palin?
schrodinger's cat
Most of the them (at least the ones I knew) find the excessive bible thumping a bit embarrasing. Many of them voted for Obama the last cycle.
PK
I have honestly never understood what being a “conservative” actually means. They say they are for small govt, fiscal responsibility, and non interference in other countries. Republicans over the last 8 yrs were none of the above. Power hungry, corrupt and crazy are better terms to describe their philosophy of governance.
People seem to be saying that republicans should get back to being conservatives, but how do they get back to being something they never were in the first place? The only thing they can change maybe is to be less insane.
My question is, was there ever a time that when republicans were in charge, they were actually fiscally conservative, restricted fed govt control and didn’t get themselves into foreign misadventures? And also, is there any country which follows conservative principles and thrives, and can be held as a role model for conservative governance?
El Cid
I think this was one of the possible natural outcomes of the Southern Strategy — for generations, a great deal of the Republicans’ growth, money, media-focused energy, and activism was found in conservative Southerners (leaving their historic base in the segregationist Southern Democrats) and western ‘populist’ Republicans.
At some point, it’s likely that non-Southern moderate conservatives will want to respond to the structural incentive to be the moderate conservative opposition to the moderate liberals in the Democratic Party.
Will they be able to do so within the Republican Party, given the dominance of crazy base world?
Not yet. But if this type of loss keeps up, they will. But I certainly hope not for a while.
Dennis-SGMM
@PK:
Conservatism never was what it was. As NonyNony and WereBear have so thoughtfully pointed out, what they have is a tribal mentality and a mythos and not much else. Those two aspects of contemporary conservatism work against holding the leadership responsible for failure because in their world there are no failures, they just didn’t do it hard enough. It’s a sort of cargo cult mentality wherein if they believe real hard and go through all of the approved rituals they’ll be rewarded. Any perceived deviation from approved beliefs will spoil the ritual so critics within the movement are quickly dismissed and ostracized.
Michael
The current winger spank bank has two potential fantasies:
1. That Toomey will draw Democratic conservatives to the Republicanistical banner, and will thereby crush Specter; or
2. That Tom Ridge can be persuaded to run under the GOP banner.
I’m thinking that Option 1 causes far more chafing injuries in wingnutopia than Option 2, and that Toomey wouldn’t dream of stepping away and allowing Ridge to run – making number 2 real unlikely.
A Ridge victory over Specter is something I see as unlikely anyway, given that he is now hung with the albatross of Bush Administration service – but it would be somewhat more of a race than the Toomey candidacy would present.
Egilsson
I’m a mainer. I don’t think Snowe will ever get seriously challenged by anyone in Maine (primary or general), and I don’t think she’ll ever switch parties.
However, Maine is currently debating a gay marriage bill. This is probably going to rouse the wingnuts, and they may start lashing out at Snowe, who I believe is not opposing the bill (if not supporting it).
About 35% of ME republicans are wingnuts, given the results of their last primary.
I hope she does switch. I still have a soft spot for her vote not to impeach Clinton.
PeakVT
@Cat Lady:
When everyone has access to health care, the game is over. It’s actually over now, but the body is still twitching.
Don’t underestimate the ability of Democratic “moderates” to screw health care reform up. Without a public option whatever is passed won’t amount to squat.
@PK: No, and no (Switzerland is probably the closest).
Zifnab
Republicans tried to punish Specter for voting outside the GOP firewall. It was Specter’s vote for the Obama PORKULUS!!! bill that did him in. Club for Growthers have been trying to field a conservative replacement for him since ’04 because he wasn’t to their tastes and this has just fanned the flames.
Cyrus
@schrodinger’s cat:
Maybe closer, who can say, but I still don’t see him winning. Andrew Sullivan and David Broder and Chris Matthews would have lavished a lot more praise on McCain, but after the last eight years, still probably would not have voted for the party of Bush.
And McCain, meanwhile, would have completely lost his base. How many of the faithful were saying they were voting Republican just for Sarah Palin, the wolf-hunting Bible-thumping hockey mom, the beauty pageant winner with the Fargo accent? McCain was already a compromise for the base, not because of any of his positions but because he’s too well-liked by moderates. Pair someone with the reputation of a RINO with a genuine one, and he would have lost everyone to his right. He would have had to self-finance. Given McCain on the top of the ticket and given the political climate, he didn’t have many better options than Palin.
Cat Lady
@PK:
Conservatives don’t believe in government, so they think it’s all just fine to raid the Treasury. Republicans under Bush took that as far as they could, and then the jig was up. Their unaccountable crony culture was exposed, and now a growing majority of people have come to understand on some gut level that government is necessary, and competence is important. That’s why Obama’s pragmatism is getting them all twisted up and turned around – his basic approach confounds their ideology, because they don’t believe government could or should ever work. They keep trying, unsuccessfully, to pin ideological labels on him, without comprehending he isn’t ideological, and so they’ll never hit the target. Their only hope is to out-competence him, but that would require a belief in the importance of government and governing. That’s the problem with wearing blinders – you miss most of the picture.
omen
bush tried to do that when he passed medicare part d, which left us with $8 trillion in unfunded liability, but wasn’t enough to win from the voter party loyalty.
Betsy
@omen: Huh? That did nothing to free people from being tied to their jobs for (inadequate) health care. It didn’t even scratch the surface of making health care universal or even more widely available. It aimed to reduce costs for seniors’ medication, and nothing more. That doesn’t even begin to address the fundamental problems of the cost of health care for most Americans.
Bill Teefy
Well some sanity but the other thing that you should note about the Republican Party is that she will only go to the word moderate.
The Republican have so branded Liberal as being leftist that there are now Libertarians because people who wanted liberty and an open mind are excluded from the Republican Party.
It is a Socially Conservative Party now – and not in the George Will please-don’t-wear-the-jeans way. It is the party whose leaders are standing in the door of the school house and the court house trying to keep the other out. It is the party whose supporters are screaming like maniacs as change walks by demanding to be let in.
They are not conservative politically or in a policy or program way. Snow is still clinging to the stern of the Titanic but the 21% that are in the water are yelling at her to let go because, “The water’s fine.”
omen
@Betsy:
yes, that was my point. didn’t work.
Cat Lady
@omen:
Part D was just for seniors on Medicare – I know, because I gave up several evenings of my life poring through the literature with my nearly blind father and my memory challenged mother. The biggest beneficiary was BigPharma.
wasabi gasp
You go to Washington in the clown shoes you have, not the clown shoes you wish you had.
Manamongst Hussein
More Cowbell please….
And if they don’t drum her out can we create an astro-turf, grassroots ultra conservative group and solicite wingnut money to run an ultra-conservative candidate against her?
Or should we just wait for one of their actual puritanical groups to do that for us…?
Betsy
@omen: Ah, ok. I misunderstood your point – I thought you were saying that because Bush’s prescription-drugs-for-seniors plan didn’t work, any kind of universal health care wouldn’t work. Sorry for misreading you!
zzyzx
@Michael: “The current winger spank bank has two potential fantasies:
1. That Toomey will draw Democratic conservatives to the Republicanistical banner, and will thereby crush Specter; or
2. That Tom Ridge can be persuaded to run under the GOP banner.”
Not really for 2 according to a Red State front page article:
(paragraph removed so the bquote would work.)
They’re true believers.
Xecky Gilchrist
@PK: They say they are for small govt, fiscal responsibility, and non interference in other countries. Republicans over the last 8 yrs were none of the above.
I think it’s that they’ve allowed themselves a loophole – they’re for those things as soon as The Emergency is over, and there’s a permanent state of emergency which requires huge spending, surveillance, torture and intimidation. As soon as The Emergency is over, they’ll get to all their noble stuff.
John Dillinger
Dems should do their own Operation Chaos and promise donations to the Club for Growth on the condition that it is used for a candidate to challenge Sen. Snowe in the Republican primary.
Corner Stone
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Skipping other comments to get to this one. Anyone here seen the Spongebob episode with The Magic Conch?
It perfectly sums up where Steele and the Repubs are mentally. Except there’s no hatred of immigrants or the gays in the Spongebob episode.
tomdurk
I have also see jihads this AM thanking gods that Specter left, because it helps “purify” Gods Own Party. This guy went on to say that the “two bitches from Maine” were next in his sights to drum out of the party.
Bill Teefy
@Corner Stone: That was on yesterday in my house. Got-to-love the plane full of picnic supplies having to dump it’s load over the jungle to evade a crash. Steele is looking more like Squidward. All hail the magic conch.
LD50
It’s almost everyone except blacks, who the GOP has given up on, and of course, white men.
It’s just a laundry list of groups the GOP has now lost. He should have added ‘non-Southerners’.
Ash Can
Republicans like Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins and Richard Lugar, as well as Lincoln Chafee, make me think of the book-preservers at the end of the movie version of Fahrenheit 451, wandering around in the woods and reciting the books they’d committed to memory in anticipation of writing them down again when sanity returned to their world.
Corner Stone
@Bill Teefy: My favorite part is where the explorer guy bursts out of the bushes and Squidward thinks for a second he’s saved and this guy’ll help. Then he mentions something about a stupid magic conch and Explorer Guy says, “You mean like THIS?!?”
Then him, Patrick and SB all start ululating wildly. That’s how I think of the Republican party now, a bunch of people pulling the string on a conch shell and waiting for an answer of what to do next, all having total faith in whatever the answer is.
D. Mason
No. At least not within a time frame recent enough that we can evaluate it relative to contemporary politics. That’s why I’m a conservative who has voted for Dems since I turned 18 – they’re more responsible, care more about civil liberties and are more careful about intervention.
Conservative means something different in every country but based on the above definition I don’t know of any country that has followed those principles long term. At its foundation America seems to have been somewhat close. The way they handled taxation was to tax for things as they provide the services. In-arguably fiscally responsible but irresponsible in other ways. The way they handled civil rights was with rigid property rights which didn’t leave much room for telling people how to act. This assumes that people will take care of themselves(not becomes a burden on society) and also relied on a very flawed definition of people. As for intervention – its hard to intervene when you’re putting out constant fires on the home front. America shed her policy of non-intervention as soon as she could. And here we are.
That’s my view anyway
El Cid
So, after 30 years of the dominance of counter-revolutionary Reaganism, now the problem is that we’ve never really tried ‘true conservatism’.
Comrade Kevin
@Comrade Darkness:
Reactionaries and religious proto-fascists.
Corner Stone
@rob:
I’m always curious when I hear things like this. The “ideals” that I hear espoused are usually something like – fiscally responsible, limited government, and some type of isolationism.
Since none of these ideals have ever been tried I can never figure out how anyone can identify with them. Is it like the theory of cold fusion, or maybe a perpetual motion machine? We can comprehend what they are but have no actual knowledge of how to make them work in reality?
demimondian
One of my dearest friends is a very, very conservative woman. She’d been desperately hoping that they’d get rid of Specter, and, yesterday, when he jumped, quite literally said “Now, if we can just get Snowe to jump, too, things will be so much better.”
I think she was serious.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Eisenhower’s admin was that way a bit, if you ignore some of their more egregious foreign adventures and their wink-wink-nudge-nudge-say-no-more relationship with McCarthy. And a lot of that was Eisenhower’s personality rather than the GOP more broadly, which is interesting because Eisenhower himself wasn’t all that ideological, he ended up in the GOP but both parties were attempting to recruit him politically during the Truman admin.
That’s the only post-Hoover example I can think of. For the rest of the post-WW2 GOP, no.
Comrade Dread
I disagree. The Republican brand was built on many things (mainly corporatism), but has typically used a single rallying point to fire up the commoners/troops and get them to set aside their differences (ignore the fact that Republican policies generally are bad for them economically).
Be it abolitionism, preservation of the Union, manifest destiny, foreign enemies, godless Hippies, or saving the world from the Commies, the Republican party had been marvelously adept at getting a myriad of different groups to ignore the fact that they disagreed on some very fundamental things (and generally disliked one another) because cause X was so important that all else must be set aside to fight against it.
The problem is that once that common cause was missing, these groups started pushing for other things on their agenda. Libertarians and legitimate fiscal conservatives were pushing for smaller government and lower budgets (and no deficits), theocons wanted a more religious friendly government, paleocons wanted us to scale back our overseas military involvement and stop being globocop, etc.
They tried to hold the coalition together by using the 9/11 tragedy to create a new global massive Soviet sized threat, but many saw how absurd that portrait of Al Qaeda was, saw the brutality hidden behind colorful euphemisms, strongly disagreed with the invasion of Iraq, and started to realize that Republicans were not serious about reducing government at all, but were actively pushing for policies and applauding executive power grabs that might have made Nixon look like a reasonable defender of the Constitution.
So, they tried to gin up Obama and the Democrats once again as the destroyers of America who we must unite against to stop.
But by this time, anyone capable of rational thought realized that the Republicans had pretty much already destroyed America and the Democrats would have to work really, really hard to make things worse, so most of the groups didn’t really care if the Democrats won and stayed home or voted for Obama.
Thus now, all you have left in the GOP are the true believers who have bought into the meme that the Terrorists are going to take over the USA and the Democrats will have us all in re-education camps if the GOP doesn’t win.
There only hope now is that Obama will screw up so badly he makes the voters forget how bad Republicans were. They are like the gambler who has already lost his home, car, and savings and is now betting the company payroll on red because the wheel has hit black four times and it’s due.
celticdragon
@NonyNony
Nicely put. That describes my own experience as well.
LD50
If you assume, as mentioned above, that Republicanism is now more a cult than a political party, this is totally what one would expect.
Their loss, our gain.
Zuzu's Petals
A question to John and any other BJer who left the GOP in recent years:
If the GOP again became the party you thought it was when you first joined … would you rejoin?
Tsulagi
Already done in that bastion of brilliant strategery known as RedState.
Reading the comments in the RS Specter posts yesterday was some good comedy. Not only should the Maine sisters be drummed out, but McCain too and others. Once purified, the GOP shall rise again. Known truth written in the Wingnut Bible. .
These dweebs crack me up. It’s like they want to go all Deliverance on themselves. Confident that after doing so when distilled down to a party solely comprised of pure inbreds, the American public will be in awe and irresistibly vote for them in majority numbers.
These guys shouldn’t be allowed to board their short busses without fully padded helmets.
Corner Stone
@Zuzu’s Petals:
An interesting question but IMO it sets up a false choice as that party never actually existed.
But you’re asking former GOP’ers, and they all seem to be quite good at self-delusion. Some longer than others.
gizmo
The present state of the Republican Party illustrates just what miserable failures Lee Atwater and Karl Rove really are. They didn’t build a sustainable party– what they did was to cobble together a coalition of disparate interests, using tribal code words and racism and cultural resentments for glue. But it was a very fragile contraption, because it had no underlying intellectual architecture, no meaningful rationale for its existence.
Comrade Dread
I think to understand this, you have to assume that the true believers think that the majority of us are vapid shallow fools who are too stupid to see the real Democratic agenda.
Since we’re easily confused and dumb enough to vote for Democrats and reject all of that GOP goodness, it’s probably because we became confused that the big government, spendthrift, xenophobic, incompetent GOP of the last eight years was the real GOP. But it’s not. It’s full of moderates and RINOs and Democrat-lites.
If they only purge them from our ranks, we can get the good pure GOP back, and the public will see how good everything is about us and will come running back to us.
And then they’ll make the Democrats pay for offering a contrast to just how much the GOP sucked for the last decade.
@Zuzu’s Petals
Speaking not as a Republican, but as someone who used to vote pretty reliably for them, I will say, No.
To quote their great sage: You can’t get fooled again.
Aaron
@Comrade Dread:
Hmmm, perhaps I painted with too broad a brush my point on never giving an inch. Let me qualify that by saying “recently” the Republican party has drawn its line in the sand very clearly. There is no room for compromise. From Liz Cheney’s quotes on torture to Limbaugh say “bipartisanship is forcing them to agree with us,” the contemporary iteration of Republicans are intellectually tepid and not all disposed toward reasoned argument or “facts”
CD, I agree with your point regarding the ideological catalyst of the Republican party being fear of the “other.” I was suggesting, however, that contemporary Republicans tilt at the idea of ideological heterogeneity. Look at some recent issues surrounding Little Green Footballs and Larison posts at AmCon, for example
Corner Stone
@gizmo:
I think this is arguable in many respects. If you look back over the last 30+ years I think you would have to agree that their policies have been winning. Their ability to cobble together a disparate coalition allowed them to push forward policies that are toxic to an overwhelming majority of the population. The people they wanted to win have won to date. It’s only after 8 concentrated years of massive fail that some people are starting to become aware of how deeply we are into the hole, in a number of ways.
We live in a nation where it is unthinkable to espouse a non-war or non-military viewpoint. If you take Obama as a recent example he didn’t say he was anti-war, he said he was anti-stupid war and in fact trumpeted Afghanistan as the “good” war.
Examples could go on for days – wages, education, freedoms, corporatism – the damages done to these areas all play into the strengths of the group of people Lee and Karl wanted to win.
The Overton Window of possible discourse in our nation is so far to the right on hotbutton issues it’s impossible to quantify.
I’d say they did a pretty damn good job.
ETA – and when I say “massive fail” – that’s incorrect as far as I’m concerned. I don’t think Bush and the Repub majority “failed” the last 8 years, I think they did exactly what they intended. But the popular conception is one that Bush was a failure, so I use massive fail to play into that meme.
Corner Stone
@gizmo: And looking back on your statement that they severely damaged the “Republican Party”, I agree with that completely. But my contention above is that they never gave a shit about the R Party but rather always intended to serve a different master. Rove spoke about an enduring R majority but I have to believe that was all part of his front.
It is my opinion that the consequences of their actions reveal their true intent – and the outcome clearly did not benefit the R party. So my question is, if actions (or outcomes) speak louder than words, then isn’t it fairly obvious that the puppeteers of the R party always intended an alternate group to reap the rewards of their actions, and not the R Party itself?
JK
Arlen Specter’s defection can easily be written off as an act of self-preservation to hold his seat. Olympia Snowe’s seat is very safe, so her defection would sting a lot more. I can’t imagine the Republican leadership letting it happen. They’ll think of something to do to keep her from crossing over.
The Republican Party has had one extremely hideous makeover. It’s gone from the party of Mark Hatfield, Lowell Weicker, Jacob Javits, John Chaffee, Everett Dirksen, and Millicent Fenwick to the party of Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and Joe the Plumber.
The Populist
No…it’s that these “manly-men” can’t beg somebody they think is “impure” to stay. These people are the type that if they had a problem with alcohol would tell the rest of us it’s under control.
These freaks don’t like others telling them how to deal or cope. They are haters of change and have contempt for big tent policy making that the Dems excel in.
In the end, these idiots will go down with the ship.
The Populist
BTW – what the fuck has happened to Barry Goldwater’s conservative movement? When I was a republican it was because I could relate a bit to Barry’s stances on the idea that I could smoke pot if I wanted (didn’t care to, but heck – it’s not evil like these asshats claim it is), religion has no place in government, gays have rights too and abortion is not a preferred solution BUT it’s not our place to tell you what to do with YOUR body.
If Barry were still alive he’d have left the GOP years ago.
cd
I’ve seen the present GOP described- by a conservative pundit and insider- as a church. It has become more or less the political arm of the Southern Baptist Conference over the years, after all, with a few other groups (orthodox Catholics and Mormons, principally) charitably permitted to join in.
Olympia Snowe pretty much is the Maine Republican Party. She reflects how much Maine has changed in the past- it used to be a generally poor but proud northern Appalachian backwoods north of Boston much like New Hampshire, just with much better ocean fishing and larger woods. Keeping their biggest blue collar employer- Bath Iron Works- building ships while Southern politicians kept trying to monopolize all military shipbuilding contracts to the Gulf Coast explains a lot of the unsightly behavior of Maine and New Hampshire politicians in the Beltway over the past 30-40 years.
The high tech industry corridors extending from Boston reached Portland a few years ago, though, and with it came serious economic and political shift. Snowe is acutely aware of that and reflects it.
The Populist
It’s true-believerism at it’s worst. I see it everywhere. In real estate we had the Kiyosaki fans who “invested” in homes they had no income or ability to buy and sell something that requires real work to maintain and find buyers for. Yep, remember when you’d see lines to buy a house in a new development and find out that they already had sold almost half of the properties in days? All speculators influenced by a book written by a man who preaches nonsense.
Look at these idiots that teach you to get rich. I see them all the time and they make me quite sick. You cannot TEACH somebody to be rich. The only people who get rich are the people teaching. In the end, this type of thinking creates people who try to game the system because they have no real idea what they are doing. They were basically lied to by some idiot in a fancy suit telling them if they think positively and not listen to the negative in life, you too can be rich like MEEEEE!!!?!?!?!? WHEEEEEEE!!!
On Wall Street you have the idea that unregulated markets is the only way to go when in fact de-regulation means the biggest, most untalented cheaters game the system at the expense of those who work hard.
Look at religious nuts. These freaks don’t want to listen to anything unless it fits their worldview. I got into a debate with one the other day when I half-joked on another site that cons are losing because they are pushing religion down our throats (true, though – even though the joke was meant to figure out who on the board was wacky). He wouldn’t let it go and couldn’t grasp why I couldn’t see God his way.
It’s sad really…
The Populist
I live near the Baptist church that houses that a-hole Wiley Drake. Talk about a stain on society. This guy is a hate-monger with a strong following.
demimondian
@The Populist: He was on the way out in 92 over DADT.
kth
I’ll just bet that John Cornyn, and other right-wingers in leadership positions, really wish that Toomey hadn’t decided to primary Specter (again), and that he has zero interest in a similar effort being leveled at Snowe or Collins or Lugar.
But they can’t say no to the base, which raises the potential for a nice ratf**k: liberals should contribute to right-wing efforts to primary moderate Republicans. It’s not like there’s a shortage of wingnuts willing to take the bait.
Adam
Maine is about to get FREAKING RICH
This entire statement should be read as Snowe’s message to the national GOP that they’re going to be paying out the nose to her for the next couple years.
a giant slor
John, she did praise tax cuts:
someguy
We have a pretty good tautology to work here.
If they don’t drive out the moderates, they are hypocrits and failing to hold to their values.
If they do drive them out, then they’re a bunch of extremists who don’t tolerate dissent.
The way I see it, this is a pretty good meme that we should flog to death. It’s a no-lose proposition.
Shade Tail
There are a few people above who’ve raised the question of what “conservatism” really is.
Whenever this discussion comes up, I always go back to William F. Buckley. He definitively answered that question more than 50 years ago in the inaugural edition of National Review. Conservatism is the philosophy of standing athwart history shouting, “STOP!”
What makes me laugh about that is, that’s not a philosophy. That’s a temper tantrum. “I *REFUSE* to accept inevitable social change! NO NO NO!” That has defined the right wing in America for a very long time.
And look at the GOP today. They’re still doing that. They are refusing to accept that society is slowly but surely drifting away. Universal health care is no longer an ‘if’, it is a ‘when’. Women, gays, and non-whites are moving firmly toward equality, though there is still a long way to go. And the conservative response to all this? “I *REFUSE* to accept inevitable social change! NO NO NO!”
WFB had it right more than 50 years ago, and it hasn’t changed since.
irishdave3
Gods Own Party(GOP)? If memory serves the Arabic for that is Hezbollah…lol
Mike D.
“God’s Own Party”!?!?!?! Awesome!!! That is brilliant and I am going to use it until the Rapture comes.