Even an obsessive anti-Village nut like me is surprised by the respect that continues to be accorded Dick Cheney. Perhaps the strangest thing of all is that part of this extends to Liz Cheney. But beyond that, some of this stuff sounds like parody. Here’s Broder:
Cheney, too, is scornful of the simplistic formulas that politicians tend to favor — one reason he was never a big hit on the campaign circuit. But he is as serious about governing as Obama, and as confident in his own judgments.
So what we saw was two men arguing vital issues without the kind of disguised demagoguery that cheapens too many campaigns.
I thought Cheney’s strongest point was his assertion that Obama had “no plan” for handling the 240 occupants of the Guantanamo Bay prison when he announced, soon after taking office, that the facility would be closed within a year.
And here’s some other weird anecdotes from Greg Sargent:
Back in March, after Cheney accused Obama of putting the country in danger the first time, White House press sec Robert Gibbs defended Obama by describing Cheney as a member of a GOP “cabal.” The comment triggered outrage from the MSNBC gang and other reporters who said Gibbs hadn’t shown the former Veep proper deference.
Today during the briefing, another reporter (I’m not sure who) attacked Gibbs again for being mean to Cheney. The reporter said Gibbs had taken a “swipe” at Cheney. What was the swipe? Earlier in the briefing, Gibbs had responded to Cheney’s attack by puckishly saying he had a lot of time on his hands. That was the swipe.
This is just weird. Cheney delivered a 5,000 word speech today blasting Obama and Dems as unwilling to defend us from terrorists. He called them phonies and hypocrites for condemning torture. He accused Obama of closing Guantanamo in order to “receive applause in Europe.” And Gibbs is taking heat for gently pushing back?
And all this is going while even David Brooks is admitting that Cheney was a delusional manica as VP.
I’d ask why this is but the answer is clear? Dick Cheney is a “serious guy”, a GOP daddy. So another question: is there anything that could happen that would cause Cheney to lose his respected GOP daddy status? I mean, the guy tortured people to find links between Iraq and Al Qaeda so he could start one of the most disastrous wars in American history. With Karl Rove’s help, he decimated our federal bureaucracy. He shot a friend in the face and then made the friend apologize for it.
TenguPhule
Yes.
He could repent and become a DFH, thereby making him a total pariah on both sides.
TenguPhule
Screw the Rules, I am GOP Daddy!
ice9
Cheney was a manica. I like it. A unique term for a uniquely manic man.
ice
beltane
The Village is an aristocratic court just like any other. Dick Cheney is a member of the aristocracy with all the rights and privileges that entails. Before the revolution, the Marquis de Sade did not become a commoner simply because he was a sexual deviant. Likewise, Dick Cheney could devour live infants on TV and still be worthy of the respect of a simpering old fool like David Broder.
geg6
Sadly, Doug, it seems ol’ Darth could be on FOX 24/7, molesting toddlers, tearing the heads off of live puppies, and skull fucking kittens and he’d still be the man with the most gravitas, credibility, and seriousness in the Village.
Dennis-SGMM
That’s why the economy is in such great shape and two wars are still not won. Cheney was serious about power, not about governing. As for his judgements, look around you.
TenguPhule
But Broder would very seriously mildly rebuke him for not devouring the infant head first.
Napoleon
Yes, if he was prosecuted and convicted, because as soon at the details of the torture that those guys committed in the name of our country is made generally know I will guarantee you that as significant percentage (more then 60%) of the public that turns hard against it, and it will be absolutely toxic for any public figure to defend it in any way.
I think it is BS when people say that the Republican party will wither away or be replaced by some 3rd party, but if there is any issue that has the potential to completely disable the Republicans from ever winning a national election again this is it.
gizmo
The fact that this country is even engaged in a debate about the relative merits of torture is clear evidence that we are beyond salvation. Obama has made matters much worse by trying to sweep the whole ugly mess under the rug and “move forward.” If he had taken a clear stand on the merits early on, the nation would have stood behind him.
MattF
What’s unclear to me is where Cheney is headed with this. Of course, he’s Serious and Credible, despite what lil’ Brooksie says. But I just wonder what his next move will be– and who is his real target.
sgwhiteinfla
Just wanted to share with everyone the video from Liz Cheney’s appearance on GMA today………opposite Lawrence O’Donnell. Not quite up to all the hype but pretty close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMHtgPGZWY
DanF
Our Washington reporters don’t deal in facts anymore so it’s easy to be manipulated by someone who forcefully marshals a consistent set of beliefs. Many of these bozos have had a decades-long relationship with Cheney and believe him to be a serious, straight-shooter since he always tells them exactly what they want to hear. They aren’t going to be easily dissuaded by facts that show otherwise.
TenguPhule
Let’s not kid ourselves. They defend Iran-Contra, Watergate and McCarthy knowing full well just how illegal they were.
Napoleon
I am convinced that if you had to pick one single person, from whatever walk of life, that embodied everything that is wrong with Washington, Broder would be your guy, and I say that as someone who couldn’t wait to read his columns in the paper and bought his books.
CT Voter
Napoleon: but Broder is Serious.
The Villagers certainly seem to get excited about the “grownups”, the “adults”, the “serious” people. It’s as if they were all abandoned by their fathers when they were children and they’re still yearning for that Daddy figure.
scav
I finally know exactly what I want to say to Richard C.
“Despair and Die!”
JK
The Bottom Line about Dick Cheney
h/t http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6450422/the_curse_of_dick_cheney
TenguPhule
Skynet agrees.
Bill E Pilgrim
One of my favorite Onion headlines ever was “Cheney vows to attack America himself if Kerry wins”
And they thought they were kidding.
schrodinger's cat
@gizmo:
What gizmo said. You can’t move forward if you don’t come to terms with your past.
Bulworth
@Napoleon:
I was once a Broder fan as well. Either he’s changed and become a complete DC hack, or I’m just a bit more aware of what goes on in this town. Maybe a little bit of both.
Bulworth
@gizmo:
Yes. We are beyond salvation.
r€nato
Seriously? How could he write that with a straight face?
If anything it’s Obama’s approach which is nuanced and sophisticated. The simplistic approach is to throw the Constitution out the window anytime it becomes ‘inconvenient’ and just torture the fuck out of somebody in order to get the false confession you need to rationalize your murderous, unnecessary wars which just happen to reap tremendous profits for you and your allies and cronies.
…
oh dear, there I go again being shrill and intemperate. Fuck.
Napoleon
@TenguPhule:
Huh? Your examples, at least Iran Contra and Watergate, prove my point. Both had the investigations cut off without trying and/or investigating the most responsible higher ups. That is part of my point. As for McCarthy, in the end I don’t think they defended him.
In any event its not just the “illegality” but the torture. It’s one thing that people have a vague idea that maybe our people are being rough, its another if they get full details and then watch as the Republican party and portions of the Village try to defend it. Sure, the American public will be just like the cop from Casablanca when they are appalled at what was going on, but that is what will happen. Never underestimate people’s capacity for intellectual flip flops, and if the issue is shoved right in the publics face you are going to see the mother of all flip flops when the public decides they always were against being rough with prisioners and they are going to punish those that defend it.
asiangrrlMN
And I should give a fuck, why? Just because someone is Serious and Confident doesn’t mean that he is fucking right. I am Serious and Confident that Dick Cheney should be tossed in an undisclosed location and never be allowed to show his face in public again for fear that the little children will scream in terror upon the sight of him, women will spit in his face, and men will beat the holy crap out of him, but that doesn’t mean I’m right.
I am also Serious and Confident that I should have a harem that consists of Alan Rickman, Maggie Cheung, Troy Polamalu, Ewan McGregor, Eddie Izzard, Dame Helen Mirren, and Cate Blanchett (one for every day of the week), that I should be ten years younger and twenty pounds lighter, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
I hate that kind of empty rhetoric, and I am mad as hell that the Village still kowtows to this decrepit, hypocritical, loathsome, fearful toad.
Oh, and the only thing that will make the GOP turn its back on Daddy Dick is if he admits what he did was wrong and takes his punishment like a man. Or, they may tout it as evidence that he had the moral fortitude to confess. I go with the latter. They really, really, really need their Father Knows Best figure, even if that father happens to be as devoid of humanity as Dick Cheney is.
Cerberus
I think you’ve got most of the picture, but I think you missed one detail. They worship him as a GOP daddy who exudes masculinity by his abusive “toughness”. Thus his commission of war crimes, drunken attack on his friend, and the rest make the Beltway more indebted to their vision of him as a “tough daddy” protecting us.
The way he would lose respect if he started being more mommy by asking people to think, empathize with others, or respect basic human decency. As long as he exudes the masculinity the Beltway pundits have such a complex over (seriously, they have more of a fetish for the trappings of masculinity than any gay man I’ve ever met), he will remain deep in their hearts even as the country recoils in horror. Raping children on camera would only help his image among this set.
Dennis-SGMM
Move our government, lock, stock and barrel, to Detroit, Michigan. This will infuse new life into the Rust Belt and give Serious People like Broder the opportunity to see how life is lived in the country that they left years ago.
MattF
@Bulworth
I think there are a number of ex-reporters who were knowledgeable and interesting when they had a real story to tell, but who got promoted to positions beyond their capabilities. Broder is one example, Friedman is another.
r€nato
perhaps not, but in this particular instance you are 1000% right.
Violet
Cheney is a Sith Lord. He tells them what to think. The only way to get rid of him is to blow him up. In real terms, that probably means showing him to be guilty of something so completely beyond the pale that it’s impossible to continue supporting him.
Then again, Charles Manson still has supporters. Some will always be drawn to evil.
asiangrrlMN
@r€nato: Ok. Bad example. I just wanted to work that into my post because Cheney is the one Bushie whom I most dearly want to see doing the perp walk. Or stroll if he can no longer walk.
AkaDad
Possibly, if he lied about getting a blowjob.
Bill E Pilgrim
@MattF:
Thomas Friedman was promoted beyond his capabilities when they let start composing sentences that others actually had to try to read.
Seriously. Here’s one of my favorite takedowns in history, and by contrast someone I could read all day long:
Flathead
Flat n all that
Okay, two. Amongst my favorite takedowns…
An excerpt from the second of those:
eemom
last week I was commenting in defense of newspapers, but at this point I would be in favor of shutting down the entire emmessemm immediately and permanently, if it meant I would no longer have to listen to this blood-boilingly infuriating bullshit about Cheney and the so-called “dueling speeches” yesterday.
FUCK these mindless twittering twats.
And yes, “manica” indeed! I luuurves it.
Violet
@asiangrrlMN:
The perp being-pushed-in-a-wheelchair roll. The image of him in the wheelchair with that blanket over him at the inauguration cemented my impression of him as some sort of evil rich guy from the era of Dickens or the first Great Depression.
bartkid
>is there anything that could happen that would cause Cheney to lose his respected GOP daddy status?
If he were interviewed by Jon Stewart.
Cf. Jim Cramer, Tucker Carlson, Jonah Goldberg.
Dennis-SGMM
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Thomas Friedman is proof of the genius of America: few nations could combine an asshole and a mustache and come up with an op ed writer.
Napoleon
@Bulworth:
I don’t think he has changed, and that may be his biggest problem, and as counter intuitive as this sounds, he has become a hack because he is the same. I can’t speak for you but as to me, I don’t know quite that I could say “I’m just a bit more aware of what goes on in this town” would be quite accurate for me so much as I have gotten older I maybe I interpret things a little different then I did when I was younger.
I can think of one great example that ties all of the above together and gives you a concrete example of what I mean.
Broder was all for letting Nixon off the hook, and so what I, for all the well trodden reasons. When we got to Iran-Contra I was not real happy with them cutting off the investigations, because we now had a troubling example of two blocks of Republican leadership in a row (Nixon/Ford and Reagan/Bush) that seem to think are democratic institutions were optional, or something to be gamed. Broder was fine with it. If Reagan was a little less of an obvious idiot, and if Iran-Contra had not occurred there would have been an excellent chance I would have voted Bush, but Iran-Contra was the one single thing that keep me from doing that.
So that brings us to today. Broder looks at things the same as 1974, but there is a whole lot that has happened that would cause anyone who cares about our institutions and country to have to wonder if what they thought was the smart thing to do back then, was really the smart thing to do. After Nixon it was easy to think “guy was an outlier, lets move on” but in 2009 it is impossible for any intellegent person to hold that opinion. The facts just are not there.
But not Broder, he is the same guy I grew up liking.
Max
Roll out the crazy folks, the inevitable has arrived…
Liz Cheney for President!
http://tinyurl.com/pnxcaz
Sweet jesus.
canuckistani
@AkaDad:
Claiming he’d had one?
asiangrrlMN
@Violet: Yup. That’s what brought the strolled line to mind. He was so…stereotypical evil-looking in that chair. It was too perfect.
Max, I thought immediately that this was why Cheney Jr. was doing the circuits–she wants to run for prez/VP.
canuckistani, ew. Just…ew.
Comrade Kevin
@JK:
John Perry Barlow, Grateful Dead lyricist, (former) Cheney supporter. WTF?
The Grand Panjandrum
The only thing that really makes me sad these days is that we will probably never see a grainy cell phone video on Youtube of Cheney standing over a trap door with a rope around his filthy neck. At least Saddam went out like a man, and told the crowd mocking him to go fuck themselves before they opened the door under him. Cheney is a depraved coward.
AkaDad
Some people say…
Dennis-SGMM
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Worse still, he would impose his own cowardice on the rest of us. The full Mussolini would be scant punishment for him.
The Grand Panjandrum
Anyone who thinks waterboarding is just “enhanced interrogation” may want to ask Mancow what he thinks now. (At least he had the guts to try it. I’m looking at you Sean Hannity …)
JK
@Comrade Kevin:
John Perry Barlow’s former support for Dick Cheney should in no way whatsoever diminish the genius and greatness of the Grateful Dead.
Given the fact that Barlow was a lyricist for the Grateful dead and a co-founder of the Electronic Frontier, I’ll give him a pass for his former support of Cheney.
Joey Maloney
@Comrade Kevin:
Barlow is from Wyoming. That still doesn’t explain why he would support Cheney, but at least puts it in context.
asiangrrlMN
@The Grand Panjandrum: As I said on the previous thread about this, let’s start a fund. I will give five bucks to Balloon Juice for every second Hannity lasts as well as twenty bucks to my local Center for Victims of Torture.
As for Cheney, he looks like he’s talking scared to me.
Comrade Kevin
@JK: @JK: I wasn’t really criticizing him, so much as wondering how in the world those two things go together. It’s just so, well, weird.
I was aware of his connection with the EFF.
PeakVT
Argh. NPR teaser: … “dueling national security speeches” …
It really cheeses me that these two speeches are being billed as equivalent. Leaving aside the content, a speech by the current president and a speech by the previous vice-president of disgraced administration who is also a leader of a party that has been blown out in the past two elections just are not of the same import.
Dick: “You cannot keep just some nuclear-armed terrorists out of the United States; you must keep every nuclear-armed terrorist out of the United States.”
How can this be considered a serious speech?
(Yes, I know, the media likes a catfight. F*** the media.)
KG
@ 13: I don’t think many defend Watergate, even within the Village. Most see it for what it was: a paranoid politician going incredibly crazy and paying the price. Iran-Contra, sure, a lot of them will defend in context, but I don’t think they really want to. McCarthy, I got nothing on.
Nellcote
Memo to Broder: Cheney is no longer in office, he doesn’t get to ‘govern’…thank FSM.
btw where’s Rove been hiding out lately? Cheney’s campaign has a familiar taint.
TenguPhule
Make him give a speech in Iraq to Iraqi families without bodyguards.
Then we’d see scared.
Brick Oven Bill
Cheney made his money in a more-or-less legitimate way, cycling between industry and government. Say what you want about Halliburton, but any political favors they got pale in comparison with Fannie-Freddie and the Bankers.
In contrast, this Axlerod guy just ‘sold’ his share of a PR company for $3 million. The company was famous for coming up with the word ‘astroturfing’. Personally, I believe that the $3 million was more about buying access to the Administration, than buying the word ‘astroturfing’. Who was the buyer? What a sleazy deal.
Cheney seems to be an honest man. I respect him.
asiangrrlMN
@TenguPhule: That will never happen. I mean, Cheney won’t even go on MSNBC with Larry O’Donnell or Rachel, for heavens’ sake, let alone Iraq. I would love to see him on Rachel’s show. She’s been trying to get him, but he hasn’t answered her request. No wonder.
JK
@Comrade Kevin:
With respect to Cheney and Barlow, I chalk it up to politics making for strange bedfellows.
John Perry Barlow discussing his votes in past presidential elections:
h/t http://www.reason.com/news/show/29304.html
Napoleon
@Brick Oven Bill:
My understanding was his former partners, which of course would not need to buy access since they already have it. Buy outs like that happen all the time in things like law firms, medical partnerships and other businesses where the principals are the active key employees and they don’t want to (or legally can not) answer to outsiders.
TenguPhule
I suspect the outright fraud and crime rate is weighted towards Halliburton & Blackwater.
JK
Dick Cheney is a goddamn coward. He’ll never ever grant an interview to a journalist who refuses to bow down before him.
At least Obama had the guts to submit to an interview with Bill O’Reilly.
PeakVT
Cheney seems to be an honest man. I respect him.
Funny stuff, but don’t quit the day job just yet. You’re still not at the level of this guy.
El Cid
What if he got drunk and shot an old man in the face?
Oh, wait…
geg6
Well, here’s some word I’d never thought would form in my brain: good for Mancow. Now he can just STFU about how it’s no biggie. He couldn’t even last the average of 14 seconds. Apparently, at 7 seconds he threw in the cow wubbie he brought with him as his safe signal. Still, it’s a more manly gesture than than any I’ve ever seen Cheney make.
Sasha
If he were responsible for a financial scam that caused his fellow Villagers to lose a lot of money. (Think Madoff).
Xenos
An extraordinary rendition to Madrid is in order. Let them convict him based on his public statements. Done.
Brick Oven Bill
$3 million is a pretty good payday for a part-share of a stupid word. This would lead one to believe that active access to the Obama Administration is lucrative.
I do not like Cheney’s role in getting us involved in the Middle East and was happy that Obama won as he promised to remove one brigade from Iraq each and every month until we were out.
There is no end-game in the Middle East and if President Obama believes that he can make nomadic Muslim populations become responsible citizens of his New World Order visions, his megalomania issues are worse than I had estimated. He also did not read much history at those fancy schools. Google ‘Graveyard of Empires’.
Glenn Beck has a better plan than either Cheney or Obama:
1. Fight to Win; and then
2. Come Home.
This is a logical plan for someone who has family in the conflict in the role of a special forces operative. This is because you do not want your loved one to be killed.
In contrast, someone who is making money off of the conflict would want it to go on forever. This is because they are making money on the conflict.
J.D. Rhoades
I’m beginning to think that Cheney’s World Torture Tour ’09 is a kind of insurance against prosecution. If he gets indicted or even investigated now, he and his supporters will claim it’s political and he’s being persecuted for “speaking truth to power” or some such nonsense.
anticontrarian
he could get gay-married.
El Cid
I also am signing on to the Glenn Beck Plan:
(1) Regularly weep on TV because you just love America so much.
(2) Get called out for lying about Whoopi Goldberg and Barbra Walters on live TV.
(3) Raise your own hopes that people will actually turn out and pay good money to watch your live ‘comedy’ show on high def digital theaters around the nation.
Lead on Sergeant Beck!
Xenos
Oy. Oy. Oy.
The racist conclusion is bad enough, but the raping and pillaging of basic, easily obtained information in support of the racist conclusion is just maddening.
BOB: quick quiz (no fair researching it): What percentage of Muslims are nomads?
shep
No. Cheney’s numbers have gone up as he has revealed more and more about his paranoid sadism. That’s how authoritarian following works. TenguPhule has it right in the first comment. Cheney would have to repudiate the authoritarian following group or start to appear extremely weak to lose the support of the followers. That’s what Republicans never admit they are wrong or show contrition; it reveals weakness (in the minds of high RWAs) and that is poison to authoritarian followers who comprise the base of the Republican Party.
.
This guy explains the phenomenon in terrifying detail.
JL
@Brick Oven Bill: The problem with Cheney is that he could not stand up to a female Secretary of State who finally just sent him down to his bunker in tears.
Brick Oven Bill
Xenos, I do not know the percentage of nomadic Muslims, but I have read Marcus Latrell’s book ‘Lone Survivor’. The villages raise goats, or drugs, or whatever they raise. There are roaming bands of Believing Muslims that provide protection and religious purity enforcement. These bands are financially supported by the villagers who raise the goats, or poppies, or whatever they raise. I understand that some women knit rugs as well.
But as far as I know there is little heavy industry or technology concerns in rural Afghanistan. Lone Survivor is a very good book, and highly recommended.
The point about the nomadic lifestyle was that Mohammed led a more-or-less nomadic existence, killing and stealing, and then offering ‘protection’ in exchange for money and goods. His ancient book is the literal law of the land in Afghanistan (and also in Iraq, Bremer was stupid and ignorant). This book, in many ways has shaped society in that part of the world. I don’t think they will buy Obama’s platitutides.
Origuy
” You cannot keep just some Klingon warbirds out of Earth’s skies; you must keep every Klingon warbird out of the Earth’s skies.”
TenguPhule
Fixed.
BOB, in the land of idiots he would be king, queen and lord god.
TenguPhule
“I don’t have a medical degree, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn!”
Midnight Marauder
@Brick Oven Bill:
I’ve been reading this site for quite some time now, and of course, I’ve seen your comments and opinions on all sorts of issues. And honestly, after reading the above statement, I have to step away from my lurking and ask you: Why in the hell do you bother coming to this site?
Beyond your gross intellectual dishonesty, it’s abundantly clear that that your sole purpose here is to spout off as much nonsense as possible in the hopes of agitating or riling up as many people as possible. But why?
At this point, almost everyone here knows your game. Your efforts at trolling have noticeably taken a nosedive in the past few months. Is it not as much fun for you anymore? Have you lost that lovin’ feeling? Have you just gotten tired of racking your brain for the most nonsensical, illogical, irrational, ludicrous, inane, thoughtless tripe you can come up with? Have you been undercover in Conservative Land too long and officially gone mad (like the two deputies in “Street Kings”)?
I mean, honestly, what pleasure do you gain from your time spent here? Seriously, there is no way that you personally believe the things that you write here. Like this:
Fight to win…and then come home. That’s the plan you’re championing? Who comes up with a war plan that does not involve fighting to win and then subsequently returning home? What do you really think the plan over there has been these past few years, under Bush and Obama–Fight to Tie? Fight to Win and then move half of the USA to Iraq, like it was fucking Risk? I mean, really…what the fuck, man?
Brick Oven Bill
Xenos’ argument is the truly bigoted one. It asserts that there is something wrong with the Afghanistan way of life. Marcus’ impressions were the opposite. He went over there to kill the people who were behind 9-11. I read his book long before he became Glenn Beck’s buddy.
Marcus came out of that situation, in which he sacrificed so much, with a deep respect for the honor that is a part of the Afghanistan way of life. I agree with him. This is why we should leave these people alone to live their lives in any manner in which they choose to live. We should leave the Middle East and cut a security-oil deal with whatever leader emerges. If we pursued our domestic oil shale deposits, we could just leave them alone forever.
But we should also honor the way of life in which our forefather’s chose to live, that being in accordance with the principles and values of the United States Constitution. We should recognize the value that this freedom bestows upon us, and be willing to defend it. The alternative is bad.
In choosing to impose our values on another society, both Cheney and Obama share the same flawed vision. I suspect that this vision has been provided to them by others, although Cheney is much more his own man. The differences between the two plans are nothing but nuance.
Xenos
BOB- what argument? I merely pointed out you have no understanding of what “nomadism” is. It is a critical part of his argument about the inferiority of Muslims but it is completely unexamined.
These terms have definitions, BOB. What you describe from Afganistanistan is not nomadism anyway, but a mixed economy in which some families and clans engage in agriculture, some in trade, some in manufacturing, and some in pastoralism. This does not make them “nomads” any more than the much more urban/pastoralist economy of 7th century Arabia made Muhammad a “nomad”.
BOB – you don’t know shit. You are willfully ignorant, which makes you an ignoramus. Bugger off.
Fulcanelli
@Brick Oven Bill: BOB, did you ever know or hang around with a girl named Laura Palmer?
Just wondering…
Brick Oven Bill
Obama’s Holbrooke recently stated that Afghanistan will be an open-ended conflict ‘Midnight Marauder’, this is an identical plan to the Bush plan. It kind of smells of this thing that I once heard of called a ‘Military-Industrial Complex’.
I do enjoy commenting here, by the way. Truth does not require a majority, and I sense that you recognize this.
Brick Oven Bill
I have never met a ‘Laura Palmer’ Fulcanelli, but did go drinking one time and our group ended up with some girls from the circus train in a rail yard. That was a strange night.
Midnight Marauder
@Brick Oven Bill:
I’m not sure what timeframe “recently” is, but it couldn’t have been from January of this year (when he took the post) and acknowledged the difficulties of the situation, while also being realistic:
But maybe it was from March, when there was a press briefing at the White House entitled “The New Strategy For Afghanistan and Pakistan,” where the administration elaborated on its plans for the region, and during which the following was stated:
Yep, sounds a lot like the Bush approach to this guy.
But I’m sure you can cite where exactly Holbrooke referred to the conflict as “open-ended.” I don’t agree so far with the approach the Obama Administration is seemingly taking with Afghanistan, but to say he has referred to it as “open ended” is asinine.
Oh, and by the way, you’re right; truth does not require a majority.
But it does require TELLING THE GODDAMN TRUTH, something you fail to understand every time you hit ‘Submit.’
Comrade Darkness
HUHN? The man was at the center of a massive illegal domestic wiretapping scheme? He has shit on all these luzers. THAT’s why they are still kissing his ass.
Steeplejack
@Napoleon:
Word.
geemoney
@schrodinger’s cat: I agree, it’s just not something America has ever been particularly good at doing. I don’t know if anyone already made this point, but I refer you to the acts chronicled in Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, the internment of Japanese-Americans, hell, even the use of the atomic bomb.
I was talking with a friend the other day here during one of Saxony’s drinking holidays, and he couldn’t shut up about Nazis, smiling and laughing as he played a ringtone he has of the national anthem from during those times (the first two verses of which are illegal to play, interestingly. He just thought it was naughty to remind Germans of their part in the Holocaust.). I don’t mean to single my buddy out, but I think that this is part of what we don’t get about other cultures. Especially here, there has been introspection and it’s been discussed (and continues to be). In corporate-speak, by and large the populace here has really owned their responsibility for those crimes. I’ve never seen that in the US. It’s hard for me to even imagine what form that would take. I guess my point is that we come from a long line of people that have always just moved on.
M. Bouffant
I guess my point is that we come from a long line of people that have always just moved on.
No sheet. (One might even say we’re a “nomadic” people.)
Even the first people to come to this side of the world were “moving on” from Asia. Certainly the Euros were looking to “put the past behind them.” A part of the nat’l. character, even.