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You are here: Home / Vilifying the victim

Vilifying the victim

by DougJ|  June 1, 20091:14 pm| 129 Comments

This post is in: Assholes

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The pundits haven’t really started in on vilifying George Tiller yet, but this from Tucker Carlson probably gives a taste of what’s to come:

Anonymous: Over the past few years, Bill O’Reilly has made the following comments about Dr. Tiller:

– He “destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000.”

– He’s guilty of “Nazi stuff,”

– a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida

– “This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao’s China, Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union”

– “operating a death mill”

– “has blood on his hands”

– “executing babies about to be born

Tucker, I’m not saying Billo wanted some kook to kill him, but isn’t this playing with fire? Is there some quote by Olberman or any other liberal commentator that even comes close? Who has the craziest of the liberal left murdered lately?

Tucker Carlson: Every one of those descriptions of Tiller is objectively true. I sincerely think it’s appalling that he was murdered. But Tiller was a monster, no doubt.

Expect a lot of “I’m sorry they rid me of this meddlesome priest, but….” over the next few days.

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Reader Interactions

129Comments

  1. 1.

    Olly McPherson

    June 1, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    I saw this on Media Matters. This is the politics of hate.

  2. 2.

    pragmatic idealist

    June 1, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    Bush’s crowd: laws don’t matter, right and wrong as we see it does.

  3. 3.

    Olly McPherson

    June 1, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Honestly, Tucker Carlson is sympathizing with terrorists.

  4. 4.

    chopper

    June 1, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    from what i hear this tiller guy would walk up to pregnant women on the street and punch em really hard in the belly and throw a hundo on the ground in front of em saying ‘for your troubles’.

    jesus, apparently most of the US has a really misinformed view of what circumstances a late-term or 3rd trimester abortion is performed under. this guy kept women from being forced to deliver dead fetuses or die during childbirth from horrid complications and the right makes him out to be the devil incarnate.

  5. 5.

    kid bitzer

    June 1, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    yeah, i think it’s pretty clear that tucker carlson is objectively pro-terrorist.

    and that description of carlson is objectively true.

  6. 6.

    valdivia

    June 1, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    A monster? really? How incredibly Carlsonian of Tucker to day that. I loathe these people.

  7. 7.

    4tehlulz

    June 1, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Tucker Carlson is objectively pro-terrorism.

  8. 8.

    harlana pepper

    June 1, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    OT, but Cheney is on CSPAN live (Nat’l Press Club) answering question now about link b/w Al Qaeda and Saddam (um, it was Tenet’s and Clinton’s fault, in case you didn’t know)

  9. 9.

    Zifnab25

    June 1, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Oh Tucker. I hope you never have kids. The reality of teenage pregnancy would far more than your simple mind could handle.

    I really am tired of this fetal love the conservatives cling to. Is there anyone the GOP doesn’t like whom it’s not ok to kill? How did they ever win the title prolife?

  10. 10.

    Jay Andrew Allen

    June 1, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    You can’t have it both ways. If Tiller was such a monster, then why is his death a tragedy?

    This is the heart of the lie that Operation Rescue and Randall Terry are peddling around Tiller’s death, claiming that they wanted to “bring him to justice” by “peaceful means.” Even if the US outlawed late-term abortions, Congress would never make such a law retroactive. The OR assholes must know this – it’s basic logic. Their supposed tear-shedding over Tiller’s murder is bullshit.

  11. 11.

    Cyrus

    June 1, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Wow, and for some reason I thought that Carlson was relatively reasonable as conservatives go. Don’t know where I got that idea.

  12. 12.

    Chris

    June 1, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    “Objectively true” and “no doubt.” Who’s he trying to convince? Himself?

  13. 13.

    Robin G.

    June 1, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Classy.

  14. 14.

    Incertus

    June 1, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    @chopper:

    jesus, apparently most of the US has a really misinformed view of what circumstances a late-term or 3rd trimester abortion is performed under. this guy kept women from being forced to deliver dead fetuses or die during childbirth from horrid complications and the right makes him out to be the devil incarnate.

    Well, what do you expect? They get lied to by the anti-choicers and drown out the sensible people, and few politicians are willing to actually stand up to the nutbags and call them liars.

  15. 15.

    Punk David

    June 1, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Tiller did some very evil things, but his murder is still a tragedy. This is not having it both ways. It is being consistent on life. All life is precious, from newly conceived to Jeffrey Dahmer. God judges in the end. It is not our place to murder anyone, regardless of their sins or mistakes.

    Don’t let your hate rule your life. We want to change and convert abortionists, and many have been converted. The same was true for Tiller.

    Hate the sin, not the sinner. Everyone is salvagable. There is no sin greater than God’s mercy and love. Even Tiller the Killer and his murderer.

    May God have mercy on BOTH their souls.

  16. 16.

    cleek

    June 1, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    shorter wingnuttia: Terrorism per se isn’t so bad: it’s all about who’s on the receiving end!

    it’s complex, you see; there are circumstances and motivations and various other factors you need to take into consideration.

    Law And Order! Rule Of Law!

  17. 17.

    Rick Taylor

    June 1, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    I don’t see how he takes that position. All those statements are objectively true, but it was appalling he was murdered. When Elser attempted to assassinate Hitler, I couldn’t call that appalling. If someone had assassinated officials at a Nazi extermination camp, my only question would be if it saved the lives of the inmates. So if they really believe Tiller was a baby killer on the level of the nazis, why are they so appalled?

  18. 18.

    steve s

    June 1, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Congress couldn’t make such a law retroactive. Ex post facto laws are prohibited by the constitution.

  19. 19.

    Dave C

    June 1, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Sweet non-aborted baby Jesus, PD! Can you please take your self-righteous sermonizing elsewhere?

  20. 20.

    steve s

    June 1, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    On a site I used to moderate, we had a special junk thread. When spammer nuts like David here would start trying to hijack all the threads, we’d kick his comments to the junk thread. That way he could still babble to his heart’s content, but it wouldn’t disrupt all the threads on the board.

  21. 21.

    Violet

    June 1, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    I bet Tucker and his ilk have never looked into any personal accounts of anyone who has been a patient of Dr. Tiller. The just have this image of him as some horrible monster who grabs random eight-months-pregnant women off the street and forcibly aborts their babies. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But the truth and those people don’t play well together.

    As for the vilifying of Tiller, I’d expect nothing less from the crowd that blames the rape victim because she was wearing a short skirt and then charges her for a rape kit. Typical.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    June 1, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    @Punk David:

    Tiller did some very evil things, but his murder is still a tragedy.

    Since what Dr. Tiller did was save the lives of women whose pregnancies had gone very wrong, clearly your opinion is that saving women who would otherwise die in childbirth is evil. Is it because it’s God’s will that they die in childbirth even though they could be saved by modern medicine, or do you just think that women’s lives aren’t worth saving because, hey, their widowers can just go out and find another one if the first one dies?

  23. 23.

    steve s

    June 1, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    June 1st, 2009 at 1:29 pm Reply to this comment

    Cyrus

    Wow, and for some reason I thought that Carlson was relatively reasonable as conservatives go. Don’t know where I got that idea.

    The World’s Tallest Midget is still a midget.

  24. 24.

    NonyNony

    June 1, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Professional right-wing weenie Tucker Carlson is a terrorist sympathizer. So long as “his” people are the ones committing the terrorist acts, that is. No surprise. I’ll bet Carlson also justifies torture — so long as the US is the one doing the torturing. Same mindset, different situation.

    Monstrous. But then, I expect no less from monsters. I only hope this baring of their souls lasts long enough for the rest of the country to understand just how inhumanly monstrous these people really are.

  25. 25.

    Punk David

    June 1, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    What a guy:

    George Tiller:

    “I know that the fetus is alive during the process most of the time because I can see fetal heartbeat on the ultrasound.”

    “The fetuses are alive at the time of delivery,” he said. There is a heartbeat “very frequently.”

    http://www.dr-tiller.com/experience.htm

    Tiller is willing to perform purely elective late-term abortions.

    “Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy. In other words, an “elective” abortion means the mother just doesn’t want the baby.

    He was very sinful and misguided. Not worth of execution. No. But worthy of mercy and reconciliation should he wanted to concede that he was wrong. That is what we asked in the Pro Life movement. It is a tragedy that he was murdered before he could have been converted.

  26. 26.

    John S.

    June 1, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    shorter wingnuttia: Terrorism per se isn’t so bad: it’s all about who’s on the receiving end!

    And also about who is delivering the terrorism.

    Muslim terrorist: BAD
    Christian terrorist: GOOD

  27. 27.

    Will Danz

    June 1, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    “– He “destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000.” – He’s guilty of “Nazi stuff,” – a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida – “This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao’s China, Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union” – “operating a death mill” – “has blood on his hands” – “executing babies about to be born”
    …

    Tucker Carlson: Every one of those descriptions of Tiller is objectively true.”

    “Objectively” is now being used like the devalued word “literally” is used — as its EXACT OPPOSITE.

  28. 28.

    Stooleo

    June 1, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    You think Tucker might change his mind if he read this post over at Obsidian Wings? Nah probably not. The problem is that none of these fuckers have the ability to empathize.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    June 1, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Shorter Tucker Carlson: It is objectively true from a certain point of view that I blow goats and eat live babies.

  30. 30.

    malraux

    June 1, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    @Rick Taylor: That’s what I don’t get. If abortion is equivalent to a holocaust, then clearly extreme action is justified. Not just action allowed within the law, but any action to slow down such atrocities. Pretty much all moral systems allow violent action to protect the vulnerable. I don’t see how one can hold the views that PD or Bill O or Tucker espouse without going out and acting without regard to the law.

  31. 31.

    Joshua Norton

    June 1, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    I really am tired of this fetal love the conservatives cling to.

    They don’t give a rat’s ass about the fetus. They really want to say “die for having sex, you slut”. Claiming it’s out of “concern” for the unborn gives them their right-wing PC cover.

    They speak in nothing but codes and dog whistles.

  32. 32.

    Senyordave

    June 1, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Oh Tucker. I hope you never have kids. The reality of teenage pregnancy would far more than your simple mind could handle.

    I just hope he doesn’t have kids because I would prefer he not subject society to his gene pool.

  33. 33.

    NonyNony

    June 1, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m fairly certain Punk David’s doing the fake troll thing and looking for a reaction. Even if he isn’t, his arguments are such that he might as well be doing it, so arguing with him isn’t going to help anyone.

    But your point’s a good one, and I’ll file it away for when this inevitably comes up when I’m talking to one of my wingnut anti-abortion activist brothers.

  34. 34.

    myrtle parker

    June 1, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    A good number of Wingnuts view Gays and Lesbians in the same way. As Monsters Abominations who deserve whatever comes to them. See: Sodom and Gomorrah.

  35. 35.

    jake 4 that 1

    June 1, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    fTucker Carlson – Always ready to chow down on a giant sized bag of dicks.

  36. 36.

    Keith

    June 1, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    When did George Will’s erstwhile nephew Melvin starting taking Q&As for the Washington Post? I thought he went to work at Fox already.

  37. 37.

    blogenfreude

    June 1, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    This is the same Tucker Carlson who was horrified when Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker, right? Just checking.

  38. 38.

    Dave C

    June 1, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    One thing I’ve never understood about the hardcore pro-life movement is, if you believe that a fetus is a human being with full rights and dignity, shouldn’t you be horrified by the fact that some 30-50% (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion? Shouldn’t you view this as the single greatest medical crisis in the world today?

  39. 39.

    Mike

    June 1, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    I’m really not surprised that Carlson doesn’t know the difference between “objectively” and “subjectively.”

  40. 40.

    Will

    June 1, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    Nice Henry II reference, DougJ.

  41. 41.

    Violet

    June 1, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    @Dave C:

    shouldn’t you be horrified by the fact that some 30-50% (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion? Shouldn’t you view this as the single greatest medical crisis in the world today?

    Taking this further. If they had their way, shouldn’t any woman who miscarries be thrown in prison for murder?

  42. 42.

    BDeevDad

    June 1, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Isn’t Tucker Carlson a frequent customer of a Nevada brothel?

  43. 43.

    Danton

    June 1, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Mike: That’s exactly what I was thinking.

  44. 44.

    blogenfreude

    June 1, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    @Violet: To say nothing of the Tubesock Holocaust.

  45. 45.

    Surly Duff

    June 1, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    “objectively true”

    Based on Tucker’s use of this phrase, I have apparently misunderstood what these two words mean – both separately and taken as a single phrase – for my entire existence.

  46. 46.

    ThymeZoneThePlumber

    June 1, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Tucker Carlson, the guy who thinks that Frowning is the same thing as Thinking?

    I had the same thought as PunkD yesterday when I heard the news about Tiller:

    I wonder what Tucker Carlson will say?

    ( rolls eyes )

  47. 47.

    LD50

    June 1, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    One thing I’ve never understood about the hardcore pro-life movement is, if you believe that a fetus is a human being with full rights and dignity, shouldn’t you be horrified by the fact that some 30-50% (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion? Shouldn’t you view this as the single greatest medical crisis in the world today?

    More to the point, if they believe that fetuses are humans, why do they oppose the kind of government healthcare that would greatly increase the health of the babies that *are* born, or improve the health of children? But then again, ‘prolifers’ are also usually pro-war and pro-death penalty, so we shouldn’t be looking for consistency here.

  48. 48.

    gnomedad

    June 1, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    @Dave C:

    if you believe that a fetus is a human being with full rights and dignity, shouldn’t you be horrified by the fact that some 30-50% (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion? Shouldn’t you view this as the single greatest medical crisis in the world today?

    I think there is a reason for this, and if we could “do something” about it, around half of all babies would be born with devastating defects. Maybe someone who knows what they’re talking about can check me on this.

  49. 49.

    LD50

    June 1, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    @Surly Duff:

    I think ‘objectively true’ basically means “I really believe this, but I can’t prove it at all, so I’ll just imply that it’s obvious and that you’re a retard if you don’t agree with me”.

  50. 50.

    DBrown

    June 1, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    @LD50: What? Really help a child using taxes – medical care for free?! That would be worst than … than … even socialism!

  51. 51.

    Johnny Pez

    June 1, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Very good post, Doug, but I must point out that you’ve mis-spelled Carlson’s first name.

  52. 52.

    Elie

    June 1, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    This is exactly what I have been talking about!

    Whatever show or forum is giving Tucker a venue for such outrageous comments should be punished! What are the sponsors and when can we start expressing our outrage in a more effective way?

  53. 53.

    JasonF

    June 1, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    I didn’t even get that far — I made it as far as the question about why it’s OK that GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy given the warnings from last fall, and Cox and Carlson responded with “See!? Bankruptcy is teh awesome!” without acknowledging that given the state of the financial markets last fall, a privately funded restructuring would have been impossible (even now, it’s the government, not the financial industry, that is providing the financing for the bankruptcy).

    Anyway, Tucker Carlson has never said anything to make me think that he is nothing but a waste of flesh.

  54. 54.

    DBrown

    June 1, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Ugh! I have been ‘awaiting moderation’ for saying the ‘S’ word – socialism! Wait, I said it again … oh no.

  55. 55.

    Zifnab

    June 1, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    @Punk David: Why would anyone believe anything on this site, Punk? It’s got all the veracity of http://www.timecube.com and an agenda practically coded into the HTML.

    They’ve got a page dedicated to “Baby Funerals” http://www.dr-tiller.com/rites.htm and another that seems to be the Stalker’s Guide to Dr. Tiller’s life http://www.dr-tiller.com/property.htm and that raises a whole lot of red flags in my book.

    For all we know, the killer could have easily visited this site on numerous occasions while planning his premeditated murder. In that sense, you’re asking us to believe a quote passed on without citation from what can only be described as a right-wing hate site as an argument for an act – the taking of a human life – that makes up the virtual entirety of your argument.

    I’m sorry, but your credibility is so far shot it is difficult to explain how much trouble I have believing you.

  56. 56.

    Death By Mosquito Truck

    June 1, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    @Zifnab25:

    Oh Tucker. I hope you never have kids.

    He has four daughters, IIRC.

  57. 57.

    4tehlulz

    June 1, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    @Zifnab: I hate to have to defend Gene Ray, but I doubt he’ll ever be connected to a murder like the Dr. Tiller site is.

    Well, not yet anyway….

  58. 58.

    Mnemosyne

    June 1, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    @NonyNony:

    You’re probably right, but it’s worth getting all of the evidence in line for when people need it.

  59. 59.

    CT

    June 1, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Something like half of all human conceptions never implant in the uterus, or are lost shortly thereafter, usually due to large-scale chromosomal abnormalities that preclude anything like normal development.

    A thing about the heartbeat-I study developing vertebrate embryos (not human). Heart development and contractility is amazingly robust-embryos that are total freaks (no head, two heads, missing posterior half of the body, etc.) can have nicely beating hearts. Heartbeat does not equal viability.

  60. 60.

    Mayken

    June 1, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    @LD50: Yes, and anti-welfare, anti-universal health care, anti-contraception, pro-abstinence only education, etc. Yeah, it really, really, really is not about the life or health of the fetus but entirely about outlawing any and all means by which women control their reproductive systems. They all wish they lived in a world in which they get to control other people’s sex lives, plain and simple.

  61. 61.

    Xanthippas

    June 1, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    What a fucking douche. So Tiller’s a monster for performing abortions that are completely legal in our country? I don’t often wish (for reals) harm on people, but nothing would please me more than for Tucker Carlson to fall down a flight of stairs and break his fucking neck. Afterwards, I’ll be more than happy to opine online or wherever that while it’s appalling for him to break his neck and be paralyzed for life, he was still nonetheless a douche.

  62. 62.

    jenniebee

    June 1, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Be careful, Punk Dave, the Troll Slayer will get you!

  63. 63.

    Johnny Pez

    June 1, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Shorter Carlson: “Pardon my barely concealed glee.”

  64. 64.

    Xanthippas

    June 1, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    http://www.dr-tiller.com/experience.htm
    Tiller is willing to perform purely elective late-term abortions.
    “Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy. In other words, an “elective” abortion means the mother just doesn’t want the baby.

    Alright, who should we believe? Your joke of a website, or the WSJ?

    Kansas law prohibits aborting fetuses that could live outside the womb — a milestone that is generally reached midway through the second trimester — unless two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would cause the woman “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.” Dr. Tiller cited that reason for aborting hundreds of viable fetuses over the years at his clinic.

    Dr. Tiller was well-known for providing abortions for women who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses. Some of his patients, he said, were drug addicted and some were as young as 9 years old.

    So if you if you could jump off a cliff and take that website and your misguided righteousness with you, we’d be much appreciative.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    June 1, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    “Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy.

    Wrong.

    Elective means it isn’t “LIFETHREATENING”.

    Infertility, gross malformity, Uteral Scarring and non-viable fetuses are all non-lifethreatening.

  66. 66.

    Cyrus

    June 1, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Sullivan’s a wanker and all that, but he’s doing a good job blogging about this.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    June 1, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    @Punk David:

    Tiller is willing to perform purely elective late-term abortions.

    There were two (2) trials to try and prove that, and each time a jury of Dr. Tiller’s peers decided that it was untrue. Just because you want something to be true doesn’t mean that it actually is.

    “Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy. In other words, an “elective” abortion means the mother just doesn’t want the baby.

    No, “elective” means “not an emergency.” If the doctor tells you that, for example, your child is missing a chamber in her heart and, assuming she even survives birth, will have to undergo three separate heart surgeries in order to breathe on her own at all, with additional surgeries to try and repair the heart so it doesn’t kill her immediately, with a maximum survival age of 5 years old if you are very, very lucky. Yes, I suppose you could say that it’s “elective” to abort that pregnancy, but it’s pretty fucking easy for you to say that since you’re not going to have to care for that child or bankrupt yourself to pay its medical bills or plan its funeral, are you?

    What is it with you guys wanting people to suffer needlessly just because it gives you the jollies?

  68. 68.

    harlana pepper

    June 1, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    It is beyond me how people who profess to hate government are rabidly committed to having the government intervene in the most personal, private matter there is, what you do with your own body.

    I know, I know . . .

  69. 69.

    kay

    June 1, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    @Xanthippas:
    Well, they had the same opportunity any other citizen has to change the law. They could appeal to the Kansas legislature to limit late term abortions. Elect legislators who are willing to define life as beginning at conception, a majority, then they’ll need a governor to sign it.

    They failed at that, so they shot the doctor.

    It’s not that they don’t have access to the marketplace of ideas, or anything. Christ. They never shut up. They lost, so they launched a jihad against an individual. It’s no more complicated than that, for me.

  70. 70.

    kay

    June 1, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    @harlana pepper:

    They do hate government. It keeps getting in the way of them imposing their will on other people.

    It’s a pain in the ass to lobby a legislature. It takes years. It’s easier to just target individual private citizens.

  71. 71.

    PurpleGirl

    June 1, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Dr. Tiller was a member of Reformation Lutheran Church, which holds membership in ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). The ELCA synod is moderate/liberal. (They even have female ministers and allow woman to be school principals!!) Dr. Tiller wanted to help women with their health care and make their lives better. The wingnuts probably couldn’t stand the fact that he was a church member and probably fairly active in its community life. (He was an usher and his wife was a choir member.) I’m saying this based on my experiences as a Lutheran for many years and with ELCA congregations and ministers.

    The following is from the ELCA website, the page on social issues (emphasis added):

    An abortion is morally responsible in those cases in which continuation of a pregnancy presents a clear threat to the physical life of the woman.
    [snip]
    There are circumstances of extreme fetal abnormality, which will result in severe suffering and very early death of an infant. In such cases, after competent medical consultations, the parent(s) may responsibly choose to terminate the pregnancy. Whether they choose to continue or to end such pregnancies, this church supports the parent(s) with compassion, recognizing the struggle involved in the decision.

    Although abortion raises significant moral issues at any stage of fetal development, the closer the life in the womb comes to full term the more serious such issues become.[F] When a child can survive outside a womb, it becomes possible for other people, and not only the mother, to nourish and care for the child. This church opposes ending intrauterine life when a fetus is developed enough to live outside a uterus with the aid of reasonable and necessary technology. If a pregnancy needs to be interrupted after this point, every reasonable and necessary effort should be made to support this life, unless there are lethal fetal abnormalities indicating that the prospective newborn will die very soon.

  72. 72.

    Kirk Spencer

    June 1, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Life begins at conception – a statement with which I agree.

    “It’s a human at conception” is a statement with which I disagree.

    What is a human? What is man, if you prefer the more classic sense. At what point is this collection of cells something worthy of being treated as uniquely protected under the law? (That is, given protections and benefits independent of the protections and benefits of the host – the mother.) I submit that the answer is philosophical, and as such is incapable of universal determination.

    For this reason, I’m forced to move to a more practical basis. Unless and until the parasite is capable of survival outside the uterus, we should not protect it. We should not give unique protection unless and until it is capable of BEING unique and viable. (I’m of mixed opinion regarding the cell groups identified as severely handicapped but still viable, but it returns to my philosophical stances and nothing I can raise as objectively defensible.)

    I’m going to point out that this test is a moving target. We are able to sustain premature births of earlier and earlier age. Today that’s around 24 weeks – the 21 week success is still considered a miracle. (For those counting, that’s 8 and 7 months, respectively.) Not so many years ago, a birth more than 30 days early (nominally 34 weeks) was considered the norm for possible survival success.

    We’re facing some severe events that will have massive impact on the question as well – experiments in veterinary science regarding an “artificial placenta” are ongoing, and I keep expecting to open a paper any day now to see of an animal brought from conception to ‘birth’ entirely in vitro – never implanted in ANY animal’s uterus. (Well, in a uterus that’s still in the animal which is in turn doing normal animal things. There are a couple of experiments in progress which are studying keeping a uterus functioning after its surgical removal.)

    Not more than a handful of years after that the world will face a severe new option – “ok, it’s conceived. I don’t want it, or I don’t want the severe medical risk that is ‘pregnancy’, so I want it moved to an artificial uterus.” I think it will be eye-opening to see how many current anti-choice people also stand against using an ArtU. Regardless, it will have moved the practicality test goalpost.

    Until it happens, though, I see any rules set on forcing someone to keep a parasite alive, one which is wholly incapable of being independently sustained, as wrong. Rules beyond that point are… a point of philosophical debate, on which many have conflicting desires. Prior to that, though, any rule which restricts is in essence a statement that the [parasite|blastocyst|zygote|fetus|baby] has more worth than the woman carrying it.

  73. 73.

    JM

    June 1, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    “Objectively true”? NAMBLA? Al-Qaeda?

    Does Tucker not know what the word “objective” means?

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    June 1, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Booman Tribune has a list of criteria that you were required to meet in order to be a patient of Dr. Tiller’s:

    Admission Criteria

    In order to offer you an appointment, we require that a physician refer you to our center. In addition, we need your genetic counselor or doctor to provide us with gestational and diagnostic information regarding your pregnancy. Over the past twenty-five years, we have had experience with pregnancy terminations in such situations as anencephaly, Trisomy 13, 18, and 21, polycystic kidney disease, spina bifida, hydrocephalus, Potter’s syndrome, lethal dwarfism, holoprosencephaly, anterior and posterior encephalocele, non-immune hydrops, and a variety of other very significant abnormalities.

    So much for PD’s notion that women could just walk in off the street and demand a termination.

    If you want, PD, you can look up a few of those “elective” conditions that are referred to, but I’m sure you won’t since it will damage your illusion that all pregnancies go perfectly and birth defects don’t exist.

  75. 75.

    JM

    June 1, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Last I checked, the WSJ was a joke.

  76. 76.

    JM

    June 1, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Does PD know that anencephalic fetuses still have a heartbeat?

    Does PD even know what “brain” means?

  77. 77.

    LD50

    June 1, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    He was very sinful and misguided. Not worth of execution. No. But worthy of mercy and reconciliation should he wanted to concede that he was wrong. That is what we asked in the Pro Life movement. It is a tragedy that he was murdered before he could have been converted.

    Now that you’ve jumped threads, Dave, can you explain to us why you seem to object to contraception?

  78. 78.

    oh really

    June 1, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    @Mnemosyne

    Mnemosyne, I know you are well-intentioned, but if your goal is to persuade PD that he’s got his facts wrong, you will almost certainly fail, because his arguments are based solely on religion and emotion, neither of which is fact-based and neither of which is susceptible to persuasion through factual argument. If the truth will set us free, PD is doomed to be in chains forever.

    I know how galling it is to have people write the kind of drivel PD is spewing, but responding to him simply gives him the oxygen he needs to continue.

    It’s not worth your valuable time (although I recognize that’s a value judgment on my part — you’re the one who gets to decide what is an isn’t worth your time). In general, the best way to deal with PD and his ilk is to ignore them — totally. Eventually, they take their comments elsewhere and attempt to hijack someone else’s thread.

    On the other hand, some of your information is quite useful and should be posted, even if it isn’t directed to PD himself.

  79. 79.

    Tonal Crow

    June 1, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    …or do you just think that women’s lives aren’t worth saving because, hey, their widowers can just go out and find another one if the first one dies?

    He’s just following the morality exemplified by the Book of Job, which appears to consider children fungible property on par with cattle. In Job — which is well worth reading with an open mind — “God” authorized “Satan” to afflict Job in anyway he wanted, as long as he didn’t kill him. Job 1:12, 2:6. And “Satan” slew Job’s children, 1:18-19, among many other torments, but “God” eventually relented “over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him”, 42:11, and blessed him with “more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses”, 42:12, and — get this — “seven [new] sons and three [new] daughters”. 42:13.

    The Bible is chock-full of warnings like this.

  80. 80.

    gbear

    June 1, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Hate the sin, not the sinner.

    I have never had anyone quote that line to me without immediately going into a hate-filled diatribe about my evil immoral ‘lifestyle’. One lady got set off when she saw my ‘Hate is not a Family Value’ bumpersticker and started hollering “Is that a GAY thing??” If I would have had my wits about me, I would have answered “No, it’s a BIGOT thing.”

    “Hate the sinner, not the sin” is used as a piss-poor cover for complete hatred of someone. It’s bogus code.

  81. 81.

    sunkawakan

    June 1, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    I might look for the cause in different places. Abortion has, and always will be, a divisive issue. However, the religious right’s sway over politicos, and the pandering by the pols to this base, seems to be the problem.

    Framed as a social, moral and ethical issue, abortion is fair game. Bring in religion to most issues, however, and you’ve got the “God” factor with which to contend. You then move from “self-righteous” to “righteous in the eyes of God.”

  82. 82.

    Olly McPherson

    June 1, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    A response from the Washington Post ombudsman:

    I haven’t read the full chat. But you make a leap here that I don’t think is supported Carlson saying he thinks the murder is “appalling.”

    Nothing to see here…

  83. 83.

    tc125231

    June 1, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    @Cyrus: What Tucker Carlson has always been is a half-smart, half-cute disgusting opportunist.

    OMG –I typed his name. Now I have to wash my hands.

  84. 84.

    redbeardjim

    June 1, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    @CT:

    Yeah, heart muscle doesn’t need any nerve signals at all to beat in a regular coordinated rhythm. As long as the heart is getting oxygen and nutrients, it’ll keep going.

    Or in other words: being brain-dead doesn’t make your heart stop beating. Being brain-dead makes you stop breathing — and *that* makes your heart stop beating. For an anencephalic fetus, not breathing isn’t an issue since the placenta is taking care of all that.

  85. 85.

    gbear

    June 1, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    @tc125231:

    tc, you forgot half-fast.

  86. 86.

    jenniebee

    June 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    @gbear: I would have gone more for the assume-she’s-a-man-in-drag angle, but your way is good too.

  87. 87.

    Annamal

    June 1, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    This isn’t the first time Tucker Carlson has chimed in with sympathy for terrorists, apparently as long as they’re targeting healers and Greenpeace (and New Zealand) they’re A OK with him.

  88. 88.

    dbrown

    June 1, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    PD may be a plant by some religious group. The man claims to be an MD but doesn’t know or understand the simplest points in biology or medicine. The man is a fraud and babbles on about religious mumbo-jumbo that no sane persons would use as a religious argument.

  89. 89.

    Mike

    June 1, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Tucker Carlson is Jonah Goldberg’s stupider brother.

  90. 90.

    Joshua Norton

    June 1, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Hate the sin, not the sinner.

    I have never had anyone quote that line to me without immediately going into a hate-filled diatribe about my evil immoral ‘lifestyle’.

    And what makes it even more interesting is that phrase doesn’t appear anywhere in christianity. They’re quoting Confucius and not the bible.

  91. 91.

    gbear

    June 1, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    And what makes it even more interesting is that phrase doesn’t appear anywhere in christianity.

    Well it seems to appear everywhere in christianistity.

  92. 92.

    Jrod

    June 1, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    The heart-beat thing that anti-choicers never fail to trot out has always seemed pretty stupid to me. You know, the hamburger I ate today also had a beating heart, and so did my shoes. I’m not saying that a human fetus is morally equal to a cow, mind you, I’m just pointing out how silly using a heartbeat as an indicator of humanity is.

    Oh, Punk David, I realize you’re probably just a spoof troll, but just the same: die horribly, you fuck.

  93. 93.

    Bender

    June 1, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    And what makes it even more interesting is that phrase doesn’t appear anywhere in christianity.

    Well, it’s not in the actual Bible, but it’s in some of the early Christian literature. St. Augustine of Hippo explained in City of God in the early 5th Century:

    …since no man is wicked by nature but is wicked only by some defect, a man who lives according to God owes it to the wicked men that his hatred be perfect, so that, neither hating the man because of his corruption nor loving the corruption because of the man, he should hate the sin but love the sinner. For, once the corruption has been cured, then all that is left should be loved and nothing remains to be hated.”

  94. 94.

    Anne Laurie

    June 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    Tiller is willing to perform purely elective late-term abortions. “Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy. In other words, an “elective” abortion means the mother just doesn’t want the baby.

    I would call Punk David a lying sackful of shit, but a real bag of manure has some useful function in this world.

    I clicked the link. Dr. Tiller and his associates very clearly understood that the women and families seeking his medical expertise were human beings grieving over deeply-felt tragedies, usually fetal development gone horribly wrong. None of these women went to Dr. Tiller on a whim, and his clinic obviously does its best to mitigate their suffering to the extent possible — which, for some women, includes having a chaplin available, being able to hold their dead infant, or ensuring that the baby they wanted but couldn’t keep alive is properly interred according to their religious beliefs.

    Punk David’s fellow monsters fail to understand such “bizarre” examples of empathy and Christian fortitude, because Punk David and his tribe are sociopaths whose moral development stopped well short of that of Koko the Gorilla.

  95. 95.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    June 1, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    I see why threads over at Sadly,No! have been free from the usual parody-troll infestation for the last couple of days.

  96. 96.

    Beauzeaux

    June 1, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Zifnab, thanks for the link to timecube. That’s some industrial strength crazy!

  97. 97.

    jim

    June 1, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Just think – this is the same Carlson who’s starting “my own version of Huffington Post” because even after almost a decade of joyful & nearly unanimous BushCo bootlicking from the major media, he’s dead certain America now desperately needs an “objective” rightist voice that he & he alone is destined to provide.
    *
    Look for him to constantly pimp the shit out of his “objectivity” in hopes of convincing his severe-head-injury/paint-chip-huffing/Hollow Earther fan-club to subscribe … even though he does not now have, nor has ever had in the past, a single thing to say worth hearing.
    *
    The man who was murdered saved women’s lives, so wingnuts have no other choice but to keep repeating “Tiller the Killer” … they’ve been doped out on the Rovian “create our own reality” Kool-Aid for so long now that they likely can’t even perceive any alternative response. Rest assured, their shock at everyone else’s repulsion & hostility is often quite authentic.
    *
    Your Reality-Tunnel: choose it with care.

  98. 98.

    Onihanzon

    June 1, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Tucker’s disdain for life even outside of the womb knows no limits.

    Wednesday is John Edwards day at the Democratic convention. Don’t count on Tucker Carlson to celebrate.The bow-tied conservative blowhard has repeatedly dismissed Edwards on “Crossfire” as a lawyer who used to “specialize in Jacuzzi cases.” It’s a reference to the case in which Edwards represented Valerie Lakey, a little girl from North Carolina whose intestines were sucked out when she got stuck to a drain in a wading pool at a recreation facility.

  99. 99.

    eemom

    June 1, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    I know there are some staunch supporters of Andrew Sullivan on this blog, and until now I have never had an opinion one way or the other
    — but after watching his performance on the Tiller murder this evening on Olbermann, I am going to have to side with the hard-core “He’s an asshole” crowd.

    He “disagrees” with what Dr. Tiller did.

    Now mind you — there were some “very moving” stories sent into his blog today, which suddenly clued him in to the amazing, and totally unexpected, fact that most women who have late-term abortions do so under tragic circumstances, where the fetus was severely ill or deformed and would not have survived anyway — who would have thought!

    But still, he “opposes” what Dr. Tiller did.

    Asshole.

  100. 100.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 1, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    @eemom: Yeah, I saw that on his blog. I told him to fuck off in my blog. HE is morally uncomfortable with late-term abortions even though, yeah, there are really really sad reasons why women get them. We should have the morning-after pill instead because, um, yeah.

    I saw him on Maher and thought of what an asshole he was. My opinion on him hasn’t changed much despite giving him several reads.

    As for Tucker Carlson, he has always been a little prick, and it seems that he always will be.

  101. 101.

    Nathanael

    June 1, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Actually, none of those statements Tucker called “objectively true” were true; as documented, Dr. Tiller only approved late-term abortions for horrible diseases which rendered a healthy baby and mother totally impossible. He saved lives.

    Tucker’s slandering a man who was assassinated by terrorists. *That* is objectively true. Tucker Carlson should be shunned.

  102. 102.

    Blue

    June 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    Dr. Tiller only approved late-term abortions for horrible diseases which rendered a healthy baby and mother totally impossible.

    Untrue. Many of his abortions were for “mental health” reasons.

  103. 103.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 1, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    @Blue: Proof please, and nice use of quotes in your sentence.

    @eemom: Unfortunately, the rest of what he said made some sense. I did make myself listen to him. Still, his casual brushing off of the late-term abortion argument pisses me off.

  104. 104.

    gex

    June 1, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: Meaning that it is hard to be mentally healthy if you die during labor.

  105. 105.

    Blue

    June 1, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    It came out during the trial–mental health was the reason given and he had another doc who would fill out form letters attesting to it for a second opinion.

  106. 106.

    Blue

    June 1, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/mar/25/prosecutors-rest-tiller-case/

    Tiller went on trial Monday on 19 misdemeanor charges stemming from abortions he performed at his Wichita clinic in 2003. He is accused of breaking a state law requiring that an independent Kansas physician sign off on any late-term abortion.

    Prosecutors described Neuhaus as essentially a Tiller employee whose only income at the time came from patients she saw at Tiller’s clinic. The defense argued she only came to his clinic for the convenience and safety of patients, pointing out she paid for her own expenses, such as malpractice insurance and travel costs.

    Tiller’s patients paid Neuhaus a cash consultation fee of $250 to $300.

    Kansas law allows abortions after a fetus can survive outside the womb only if two independent doctors agree that it is necessary to save a women’s life or prevent “substantial and irreversible” harm to “a major bodily function,” a phrase that’s been interpreted to include mental health.

  107. 107.

    Mayken

    June 2, 2009 at 1:20 am

    Do not discount mental illness as a serious health issue and potentially life-threatening illness. People denigrate mental illness as if it is “all in one’s head” when diseases such as depression and bi-polar disorder (to name just a couple) can be seriously debilitating and in many cases can lead to suicide or lethal risk-taking behaviors. And if you have never experienced severe depression or known someone who has, you cannot imagine the pain that is also involved. It is not just “the blues” or “laziness” or whatever asshatish term some people want to attach to it.

    Also, take note that Dr. Tiller was found not guilty of violating this extreme anti-abortion law. So whatever reasons his patients gave him and he accepted were with in the law.

    Dr. Tiller wasn’t performing late-term abortions for women who suddenly decided they just didn’t want to be pregnant any more, no matter what the wingers want us to think.

  108. 108.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Tiller went on trial Monday on 19 misdemeanor charges stemming from abortions he performed at his Wichita clinic in 2003. He is accused of breaking a state law requiring that an independent Kansas physician sign off on any late-term abortion.

    What Blue of course leaves out is that Tiller was found NOT GUILTY ON ALL FUCKING COUNTS.

    Which means that the motherfucking prosecutor in Kansas couldn’t even convince conservatives he had a fucking case.

  109. 109.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Fact: If Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow went on TV advocating for the harming or death of Rush Limbaugh (ok, bad choice but I am running with it) the right would explode.

    If Bill O goes on talking about a doctor who “kills” and something needs to be done about this guy, it’s okay I guess.

    Fuck this nonsense. Wake up America before these fascists own your souls lock, stock and barrel.

  110. 110.

    Slaney Black

    June 2, 2009 at 1:27 am

    @asiangrrlMN: Some of his procedures were performed for mental health reasons. For example, women with Down’s syndrome who had been raped. I suppose Sully and company think that’s some trivial shit.

  111. 111.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:28 am

    What Blue of course leaves out is that Tiller was found NOT GUILTY ON ALL FUCKING COUNTS. Which means that the motherfucking prosecutor in Kansas couldn’t even convince conservatives he had a fucking case.

    According to some Operation Rescue Wacko they were “close” to proving how guilty this guy was. Yep, nice try wack jobs your delusions of grandeur are scary.

    Now that these fucks have crossed him off their lists, who’s next? These morons need enemies to fight. They aren’t Christians as in Jesus loves you. They are fucking nutjobs who are no better than the Taliban.

  112. 112.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 2, 2009 at 1:30 am

    @gex: Oh, I know that. I just don’t like the use of quotes for no reason.

    @Blue: And you know what? He was found not guilty. Acquitted. So, I’m sorry, but I don’t buy your defense, as it were.

    Read this to get a better idea of the women who saw Dr. Tiller (read the section Dr. George Tiller). Or this. Or even this.

    I also take issue with your putting “mental health” in quotes because it trivializes an important matter, but I don’t feel like arguing that particular point.

  113. 113.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Now that these fucks have crossed him off their lists, who’s next? These morons need enemies to fight. They aren’t Christians as in Jesus loves you. They are fucking nutjobs who are no better than the Taliban.

    I want a website that has Operation Rescue leaders’ crotches in a sniper target sight.

    And every time you click on it, it says “Ow! My Balls!”

  114. 114.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:33 am

    I also take issue with your putting “mental health” in quotes because it trivializes an important matter, but I don’t feel like arguing that particular point.

    Look at it from Blue’s point of view, without women with mental health issues, Blue’s chances of ever getting laid approach Zero.

    It is merely enlightened self-interest.

  115. 115.

    Slaney Black

    June 2, 2009 at 1:33 am

    @Cyrus:

    Wow, and for some reason I thought that Carlson was relatively reasonable as conservatives go. Don’t know where I got that idea.

    Just because a guy smokes weed doesn’t mean he’s not an asshole.

  116. 116.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:34 am

    Hehe Tengu. As I ask these idiots, I have masterbated many times in my life, so does that mean you will kill me too?

    These asshats do not believe in birth control and think abstinence works. Yeah right…dream on losers.

  117. 117.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Wow, and for some reason I thought that Carlson was relatively reasonable as conservatives go. Don’t know where I got that idea.

    Cyrus, c’mon. All the reasonable cons are either dead (Goldwater, Kemp) or they are senile (McCain) or just plain useless (Gingrich).

  118. 118.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:35 am

    These asshats do not believe in birth control and think abstinence works. Yeah right…dream on losers.

    The end goal of male anti-abortionists is a land where they can freely knock up women and abandon them for the next conquest.

    See Also, Limburger Rush and Fuckstain McCain.

  119. 119.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:37 am

    I hate abortion. Abhor it. Guess what righties, I don’t believe it should be illegal. See, I believe in privacy rights. If a woman has to make this choice, it’s mostly for a good reason. Sure some abuse the priviledge, but that’s between them, their conscience, their priest/family or God (if HE exists).

    Why do you asshats want to tell people how to live? Live your life and I will live mine.

  120. 120.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 2, 2009 at 1:38 am

    Thanks, guys, for backing me up.

    @Slaney Black: Yeah, I knew that. I was choosing to be snarky instead of opening a can of whup-ass on Blue’s ass.

    @Mayken: Thank you. This is what I wanted to say, but I couldn’t say it as well as you did.

    Tenguphule, huh, you’re taking Blue to be male? Interesting.

  121. 121.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:38 am

    The end goal of male anti-abortionists is a land where they can freely knock up women and abandon them for the next conquest.

    …or demand they get an abortion when they tell others they want it banned.

    See Barr, Bob.

  122. 122.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Why do you asshats want to tell people how to live?

    Because they are asshats. It’s a fundamental part of being an asshat. WIthout it they are only a empty hat without an ass to shit in.

    Simple Answers to Simple Questions.

  123. 123.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Hey Blue,

    Abortion is not good but guess what? It’s none of YOUR concern what a woman/couple do with THEIR private family matters.

    Some people need to learn to follow their own right wing ideals and LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE AND MIND YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

  124. 124.

    The Populist

    June 2, 2009 at 1:40 am

    Tengu, you are preaching the truth.

  125. 125.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 2, 2009 at 1:43 am

    I think, also, most wingnuts are so unhappy about themselves, they only feel better when they are looking down at/judging/trying to restrict the behavior of others.

  126. 126.

    Mayken

    June 2, 2009 at 1:52 am

    @asiangrrlMN: But of course. And thanks for the compliment in return. Chaps my hide when folks discount mental illness as a real health issue, especially the so-called pro-lifers. I have close family who suffer from mental illnesses – I know just how (sometimes deadly) serious it can be.
    Oh, and I agree, many pro-lifers have some serious issues that need to be addressed. Talk about the importance of mental health… heh!

  127. 127.

    Slaney Black

    June 2, 2009 at 1:54 am

    @asiangrrlMN: There’s some truth to that. From what I recall of my wingnut years, it was this constant, blind, poorly focused rage. You see Limbaugh and Dobbs do this sometimes: they bare their teeth when they talk – when they say something really nasty. Like they’re going to bite the limb of a live creature. Something a poorly socialized stoat or badger would do.

    I guarantee you Carlson did that thing with his teeth when he said the jacuzzi line. And again when he typed “objectively true” on his Banana Jr. 6000 ergonomic keyboard.

  128. 128.

    TenguPhule

    June 2, 2009 at 1:56 am

    they bare their teeth when they talk – when they say something really nasty.

    Around this point I usually notice they failed to brush their teeth.

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