The pundits haven’t really started in on vilifying George Tiller yet, but this from Tucker Carlson probably gives a taste of what’s to come:
Anonymous: Over the past few years, Bill O’Reilly has made the following comments about Dr. Tiller:
– He “destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000.”
– He’s guilty of “Nazi stuff,”
– a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida
– “This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao’s China, Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union”
– “operating a death mill”
– “has blood on his hands”
– “executing babies about to be born
Tucker, I’m not saying Billo wanted some kook to kill him, but isn’t this playing with fire? Is there some quote by Olberman or any other liberal commentator that even comes close? Who has the craziest of the liberal left murdered lately?
Tucker Carlson: Every one of those descriptions of Tiller is objectively true. I sincerely think it’s appalling that he was murdered. But Tiller was a monster, no doubt.
Expect a lot of “I’m sorry they rid me of this meddlesome priest, but….” over the next few days.
I saw this on Media Matters. This is the politics of hate.
Bush’s crowd: laws don’t matter, right and wrong as we see it does.
Honestly, Tucker Carlson is sympathizing with terrorists.
from what i hear this tiller guy would walk up to pregnant women on the street and punch em really hard in the belly and throw a hundo on the ground in front of em saying ‘for your troubles’.
jesus, apparently most of the US has a really misinformed view of what circumstances a late-term or 3rd trimester abortion is performed under. this guy kept women from being forced to deliver dead fetuses or die during childbirth from horrid complications and the right makes him out to be the devil incarnate.
yeah, i think it’s pretty clear that tucker carlson is objectively pro-terrorist.
and that description of carlson is objectively true.
A monster? really? How incredibly Carlsonian of Tucker to day that. I loathe these people.
Tucker Carlson is objectively pro-terrorism.
OT, but Cheney is on CSPAN live (Nat’l Press Club) answering question now about link b/w Al Qaeda and Saddam (um, it was Tenet’s and Clinton’s fault, in case you didn’t know)
Oh Tucker. I hope you never have kids. The reality of teenage pregnancy would far more than your simple mind could handle.
I really am tired of this fetal love the conservatives cling to. Is there anyone the GOP doesn’t like whom it’s not ok to kill? How did they ever win the title prolife?
Jay Andrew Allen
You can’t have it both ways. If Tiller was such a monster, then why is his death a tragedy?
This is the heart of the lie that Operation Rescue and Randall Terry are peddling around Tiller’s death, claiming that they wanted to “bring him to justice” by “peaceful means.” Even if the US outlawed late-term abortions, Congress would never make such a law retroactive. The OR assholes must know this – it’s basic logic. Their supposed tear-shedding over Tiller’s murder is bullshit.
Wow, and for some reason I thought that Carlson was relatively reasonable as conservatives go. Don’t know where I got that idea.
“Objectively true” and “no doubt.” Who’s he trying to convince? Himself?
Well, what do you expect? They get lied to by the anti-choicers and drown out the sensible people, and few politicians are willing to actually stand up to the nutbags and call them liars.
Tiller did some very evil things, but his murder is still a tragedy. This is not having it both ways. It is being consistent on life. All life is precious, from newly conceived to Jeffrey Dahmer. God judges in the end. It is not our place to murder anyone, regardless of their sins or mistakes.
Don’t let your hate rule your life. We want to change and convert abortionists, and many have been converted. The same was true for Tiller.
Hate the sin, not the sinner. Everyone is salvagable. There is no sin greater than God’s mercy and love. Even Tiller the Killer and his murderer.
May God have mercy on BOTH their souls.
shorter wingnuttia: Terrorism per se isn’t so bad: it’s all about who’s on the receiving end!
it’s complex, you see; there are circumstances and motivations and various other factors you need to take into consideration.
Law And Order! Rule Of Law!
I don’t see how he takes that position. All those statements are objectively true, but it was appalling he was murdered. When Elser attempted to assassinate Hitler, I couldn’t call that appalling. If someone had assassinated officials at a Nazi extermination camp, my only question would be if it saved the lives of the inmates. So if they really believe Tiller was a baby killer on the level of the nazis, why are they so appalled?
Congress couldn’t make such a law retroactive. Ex post facto laws are prohibited by the constitution.
Sweet non-aborted baby Jesus, PD! Can you please take your self-righteous sermonizing elsewhere?
On a site I used to moderate, we had a special junk thread. When spammer nuts like David here would start trying to hijack all the threads, we’d kick his comments to the junk thread. That way he could still babble to his heart’s content, but it wouldn’t disrupt all the threads on the board.
I bet Tucker and his ilk have never looked into any personal accounts of anyone who has been a patient of Dr. Tiller. The just have this image of him as some horrible monster who grabs random eight-months-pregnant women off the street and forcibly aborts their babies. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But the truth and those people don’t play well together.
As for the vilifying of Tiller, I’d expect nothing less from the crowd that blames the rape victim because she was wearing a short skirt and then charges her for a rape kit. Typical.
Since what Dr. Tiller did was save the lives of women whose pregnancies had gone very wrong, clearly your opinion is that saving women who would otherwise die in childbirth is evil. Is it because it’s God’s will that they die in childbirth even though they could be saved by modern medicine, or do you just think that women’s lives aren’t worth saving because, hey, their widowers can just go out and find another one if the first one dies?
The World’s Tallest Midget is still a midget.
Professional right-wing weenie Tucker Carlson is a terrorist sympathizer. So long as “his” people are the ones committing the terrorist acts, that is. No surprise. I’ll bet Carlson also justifies torture — so long as the US is the one doing the torturing. Same mindset, different situation.
Monstrous. But then, I expect no less from monsters. I only hope this baring of their souls lasts long enough for the rest of the country to understand just how inhumanly monstrous these people really are.
What a guy:
“I know that the fetus is alive during the process most of the time because I can see fetal heartbeat on the ultrasound.”
“The fetuses are alive at the time of delivery,” he said. There is a heartbeat “very frequently.”
Tiller is willing to perform purely elective late-term abortions.
“Elective” means there is nothing wrong with the baby, and the mother’s health is not threatened by the pregnancy. In other words, an “elective” abortion means the mother just doesn’t want the baby.
He was very sinful and misguided. Not worth of execution. No. But worthy of mercy and reconciliation should he wanted to concede that he was wrong. That is what we asked in the Pro Life movement. It is a tragedy that he was murdered before he could have been converted.
And also about who is delivering the terrorism.
Muslim terrorist: BAD
Christian terrorist: GOOD
“– He “destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000.” – He’s guilty of “Nazi stuff,” – a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida – “This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao’s China, Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Soviet Union” – “operating a death mill” – “has blood on his hands” – “executing babies about to be born”
Tucker Carlson: Every one of those descriptions of Tiller is objectively true.”
“Objectively” is now being used like the devalued word “literally” is used — as its EXACT OPPOSITE.
You think Tucker might change his mind if he read this post over at Obsidian Wings? Nah probably not. The problem is that none of these fuckers have the ability to empathize.
@Rick Taylor: That’s what I don’t get. If abortion is equivalent to a holocaust, then clearly extreme action is justified. Not just action allowed within the law, but any action to slow down such atrocities. Pretty much all moral systems allow violent action to protect the vulnerable. I don’t see how one can hold the views that PD or Bill O or Tucker espouse without going out and acting without regard to the law.
They don’t give a rat’s ass about the fetus. They really want to say “die for having sex, you slut”. Claiming it’s out of “concern” for the unborn gives them their right-wing PC cover.
They speak in nothing but codes and dog whistles.
Oh Tucker. I hope you never have kids. The reality of teenage pregnancy would far more than your simple mind could handle.
I just hope he doesn’t have kids because I would prefer he not subject society to his gene pool.
I’m fairly certain Punk David’s doing the fake troll thing and looking for a reaction. Even if he isn’t, his arguments are such that he might as well be doing it, so arguing with him isn’t going to help anyone.
But your point’s a good one, and I’ll file it away for when this inevitably comes up when I’m talking to one of my wingnut anti-abortion activist brothers.
A good number of Wingnuts view Gays and Lesbians in the same way. As
MonstersAbominations who deserve whatever comes to them. See: Sodom and Gomorrah.
jake 4 that 1
fTucker Carlson – Always ready to chow down on a giant sized bag of dicks.
When did George Will’s erstwhile nephew Melvin starting taking Q&As for the Washington Post? I thought he went to work at Fox already.
This is the same Tucker Carlson who was horrified when Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker, right? Just checking.
One thing I’ve never understood about the hardcore pro-life movement is, if you believe that a fetus is a human being with full rights and dignity, shouldn’t you be horrified by the fact that some 30-50% (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion? Shouldn’t you view this as the single greatest medical crisis in the world today?
I’m really not surprised that Carlson doesn’t know the difference between “objectively” and “subjectively.”
Nice Henry II reference, DougJ.
Taking this further. If they had their way, shouldn’t any woman who miscarries be thrown in prison for murder?
Isn’t Tucker Carlson a frequent customer of a Nevada brothel?
Mike: That’s exactly what I was thinking.
@Violet: To say nothing of the Tubesock Holocaust.
Based on Tucker’s use of this phrase, I have apparently misunderstood what these two words mean – both separately and taken as a single phrase – for my entire existence.
Tucker Carlson, the guy who thinks that Frowning is the same thing as Thinking?
I had the same thought as PunkD yesterday when I heard the news about Tiller:
I wonder what Tucker Carlson will say?
( rolls eyes )
More to the point, if they believe that fetuses are humans, why do they oppose the kind of government healthcare that would greatly increase the health of the babies that *are* born, or improve the health of children? But then again, ‘prolifers’ are also usually pro-war and pro-death penalty, so we shouldn’t be looking for consistency here.
I think there is a reason for this, and if we could “do something” about it, around half of all babies would be born with devastating defects. Maybe someone who knows what they’re talking about can check me on this.
I think ‘objectively true’ basically means “I really believe this, but I can’t prove it at all, so I’ll just imply that it’s obvious and that you’re a retard if you don’t agree with me”.
@LD50: What? Really help a child using taxes – medical care for free?! That would be worst than … than … even socialism!
Very good post, Doug, but I must point out that you’ve mis-spelled Carlson’s first name.
This is exactly what I have been talking about!
Whatever show or forum is giving Tucker a venue for such outrageous comments should be punished! What are the sponsors and when can we start expressing our outrage in a more effective way?
I didn’t even get that far — I made it as far as the question about why it’s OK that GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy given the warnings from last fall, and Cox and Carlson responded with “See!? Bankruptcy is teh awesome!” without acknowledging that given the state of the financial markets last fall, a privately funded restructuring would have been impossible (even now, it’s the government, not the financial industry, that is providing the financing for the bankruptcy).
Anyway, Tucker Carlson has never said anything to make me think that he is nothing but a waste of flesh.
Ugh! I have been ‘awaiting moderation’ for saying the ‘S’ word – socialism! Wait, I said it again … oh no.
@Punk David: Why would anyone believe anything on this site, Punk? It’s got all the veracity of http://www.timecube.com and an agenda practically coded into the HTML.
They’ve got a page dedicated to “Baby Funerals” http://www.dr-tiller.com/rites.htm and another that seems to be the Stalker’s Guide to Dr. Tiller’s life http://www.dr-tiller.com/property.htm and that raises a whole lot of red flags in my book.
For all we know, the killer could have easily visited this site on numerous occasions while planning his premeditated murder. In that sense, you’re asking us to believe a quote passed on without citation from what can only be described as a right-wing hate site as an argument for an act – the taking of a human life – that makes up the virtual entirety of your argument.
I’m sorry, but your credibility is so far shot it is difficult to explain how much trouble I have believing you.
Death By Mosquito Truck
He has four daughters, IIRC.
@Zifnab: I hate to have to defend Gene Ray, but I doubt he’ll ever be connected to a murder like the Dr. Tiller site is.
Well, not yet anyway….
You’re probably right, but it’s worth getting all of the evidence in line for when people need it.
Something like half of all human conceptions never implant in the uterus, or are lost shortly thereafter, usually due to large-scale chromosomal abnormalities that preclude anything like normal development.
A thing about the heartbeat-I study developing vertebrate embryos (not human). Heart development and contractility is amazingly robust-embryos that are total freaks (no head, two heads, missing posterior half of the body, etc.) can have nicely beating hearts. Heartbeat does not equal viability.
@LD50: Yes, and anti-welfare, anti-universal health care, anti-contraception, pro-abstinence only education, etc. Yeah, it really, really, really is not about the life or health of the fetus but entirely about outlawing any and all means by which women control their reproductive systems. They all wish they lived in a world in which they get to control other people’s sex lives, plain and simple.
What a fucking douche. So Tiller’s a monster for performing abortions that are completely legal in our country? I don’t often wish (for reals) harm on people, but nothing would please me more than for Tucker Carlson to fall down a flight of stairs and break his fucking neck. Afterwards, I’ll be more than happy to opine online or wherever that while it’s appalling for him to break his neck and be paralyzed for life, he was still nonetheless a douche.
Be careful, Punk Dave, the Troll Slayer will get you!
Shorter Carlson: “Pardon my barely concealed glee.”
Alright, who should we believe? Your joke of a website, or the WSJ?
So if you if you could jump off a cliff and take that website and your misguided righteousness with you, we’d be much appreciative.
Elective means it isn’t “LIFETHREATENING”.
Infertility, gross malformity, Uteral Scarring and non-viable fetuses are all non-lifethreatening.
Sullivan’s a wanker and all that, but he’s doing a good job blogging about this.
There were two (2) trials to try and prove that, and each time a jury of Dr. Tiller’s peers decided that it was untrue. Just because you want something to be true doesn’t mean that it actually is.
No, “elective” means “not an emergency.” If the doctor tells you that, for example, your child is missing a chamber in her heart and, assuming she even survives birth, will have to undergo three separate heart surgeries in order to breathe on her own at all, with additional surgeries to try and repair the heart so it doesn’t kill her immediately, with a maximum survival age of 5 years old if you are very, very lucky. Yes, I suppose you could say that it’s “elective” to abort that pregnancy, but it’s pretty fucking easy for you to say that since you’re not going to have to care for that child or bankrupt yourself to pay its medical bills or plan its funeral, are you?
What is it with you guys wanting people to suffer needlessly just because it gives you the jollies?
It is beyond me how people who profess to hate government are rabidly committed to having the government intervene in the most personal, private matter there is, what you do with your own body.
I know, I know . . .
Well, they had the same opportunity any other citizen has to change the law. They could appeal to the Kansas legislature to limit late term abortions. Elect legislators who are willing to define life as beginning at conception, a majority, then they’ll need a governor to sign it.
They failed at that, so they shot the doctor.
It’s not that they don’t have access to the marketplace of ideas, or anything. Christ. They never shut up. They lost, so they launched a jihad against an individual. It’s no more complicated than that, for me.
They do hate government. It keeps getting in the way of them imposing their will on other people.
It’s a pain in the ass to lobby a legislature. It takes years. It’s easier to just target individual private citizens.
Dr. Tiller was a member of Reformation Lutheran Church, which holds membership in ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). The ELCA synod is moderate/liberal. (They even have female ministers and allow woman to be school principals!!) Dr. Tiller wanted to help women with their health care and make their lives better. The wingnuts probably couldn’t stand the fact that he was a church member and probably fairly active in its community life. (He was an usher and his wife was a choir member.) I’m saying this based on my experiences as a Lutheran for many years and with ELCA congregations and ministers.
The following is from the ELCA website, the page on social issues (emphasis added):
An abortion is morally responsible in those cases in which continuation of a pregnancy presents a clear threat to the physical life of the woman.
There are circumstances of extreme fetal abnormality, which will result in severe suffering and very early death of an infant. In such cases, after competent medical consultations, the parent(s) may responsibly choose to terminate the pregnancy. Whether they choose to continue or to end such pregnancies, this church supports the parent(s) with compassion, recognizing the struggle involved in the decision.
Although abortion raises significant moral issues at any stage of fetal development, the closer the life in the womb comes to full term the more serious such issues become.[F] When a child can survive outside a womb, it becomes possible for other people, and not only the mother, to nourish and care for the child. This church opposes ending intrauterine life when a fetus is developed enough to live outside a uterus with the aid of reasonable and necessary technology. If a pregnancy needs to be interrupted after this point, every reasonable and necessary effort should be made to support this life, unless there are lethal fetal abnormalities indicating that the prospective newborn will die very soon.
Life begins at conception – a statement with which I agree.
“It’s a human at conception” is a statement with which I disagree.
What is a human? What is man, if you prefer the more classic sense. At what point is this collection of cells something worthy of being treated as uniquely protected under the law? (That is, given protections and benefits independent of the protections and benefits of the host – the mother.) I submit that the answer is philosophical, and as such is incapable of universal determination.
For this reason, I’m forced to move to a more practical basis. Unless and until the parasite is capable of survival outside the uterus, we should not protect it. We should not give unique protection unless and until it is capable of BEING unique and viable. (I’m of mixed opinion regarding the cell groups identified as severely handicapped but still viable, but it returns to my philosophical stances and nothing I can raise as objectively defensible.)
I’m going to point out that this test is a moving target. We are able to sustain premature births of earlier and earlier age. Today that’s around 24 weeks – the 21 week success is still considered a miracle. (For those counting, that’s 8 and 7 months, respectively.) Not so many years ago, a birth more than 30 days early (nominally 34 weeks) was considered the norm for possible survival success.
We’re facing some severe events that will have massive impact on the question as well – experiments in veterinary science regarding an “artificial placenta” are ongoing, and I keep expecting to open a paper any day now to see of an animal brought from conception to ‘birth’ entirely in vitro – never implanted in ANY animal’s uterus. (Well, in a uterus that’s still in the animal which is in turn doing normal animal things. There are a couple of experiments in progress which are studying keeping a uterus functioning after its surgical removal.)
Not more than a handful of years after that the world will face a severe new option – “ok, it’s conceived. I don’t want it, or I don’t want the severe medical risk that is ‘pregnancy’, so I want it moved to an artificial uterus.” I think it will be eye-opening to see how many current anti-choice people also stand against using an ArtU. Regardless, it will have moved the practicality test goalpost.
Until it happens, though, I see any rules set on forcing someone to keep a parasite alive, one which is wholly incapable of being independently sustained, as wrong. Rules beyond that point are… a point of philosophical debate, on which many have conflicting desires. Prior to that, though, any rule which restricts is in essence a statement that the [parasite|blastocyst|zygote|fetus|baby] has more worth than the woman carrying it.
“Objectively true”? NAMBLA? Al-Qaeda?
Does Tucker not know what the word “objective” means?
Booman Tribune has a list of criteria that you were required to meet in order to be a patient of Dr. Tiller’s:
So much for PD’s notion that women could just walk in off the street and demand a termination.
If you want, PD, you can look up a few of those “elective” conditions that are referred to, but I’m sure you won’t since it will damage your illusion that all pregnancies go perfectly and birth defects don’t exist.
Last I checked, the WSJ was a joke.
Does PD know that anencephalic fetuses still have a heartbeat?
Does PD even know what “brain” means?
Now that you’ve jumped threads, Dave, can you explain to us why you seem to object to contraception?
Mnemosyne, I know you are well-intentioned, but if your goal is to persuade PD that he’s got his facts wrong, you will almost certainly fail, because his arguments are based solely on religion and emotion, neither of which is fact-based and neither of which is susceptible to persuasion through factual argument. If the truth will set us free, PD is doomed to be in chains forever.
I know how galling it is to have people write the kind of drivel PD is spewing, but responding to him simply gives him the oxygen he needs to continue.
It’s not worth your valuable time (although I recognize that’s a value judgment on my part — you’re the one who gets to decide what is an isn’t worth your time). In general, the best way to deal with PD and his ilk is to ignore them — totally. Eventually, they take their comments elsewhere and attempt to hijack someone else’s thread.
On the other hand, some of your information is quite useful and should be posted, even if it isn’t directed to PD himself.
He’s just following the morality exemplified by the Book of Job, which appears to consider children fungible property on par with cattle. In Job — which is well worth reading with an open mind — “God” authorized “Satan” to afflict Job in anyway he wanted, as long as he didn’t kill him. Job 1:12, 2:6. And “Satan” slew Job’s children, 1:18-19, among many other torments, but “God” eventually relented “over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him”, 42:11, and blessed him with “more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses”, 42:12, and — get this — “seven [new] sons and three [new] daughters”. 42:13.
The Bible is chock-full of warnings like this.
I have never had anyone quote that line to me without immediately going into a hate-filled diatribe about my evil immoral ‘lifestyle’. One lady got set off when she saw my ‘Hate is not a Family Value’ bumpersticker and started hollering “Is that a GAY thing??” If I would have had my wits about me, I would have answered “No, it’s a BIGOT thing.”
“Hate the sinner, not the sin” is used as a piss-poor cover for complete hatred of someone. It’s bogus code.
I might look for the cause in different places. Abortion has, and always will be, a divisive issue. However, the religious right’s sway over politicos, and the pandering by the pols to this base, seems to be the problem.
Framed as a social, moral and ethical issue, abortion is fair game. Bring in religion to most issues, however, and you’ve got the “God” factor with which to contend. You then move from “self-righteous” to “righteous in the eyes of God.”
A response from the Washington Post ombudsman:
Nothing to see here…
@Cyrus: What Tucker Carlson has always been is a half-smart, half-cute disgusting opportunist.
OMG –I typed his name. Now I have to wash my hands.
Yeah, heart muscle doesn’t need any nerve signals at all to beat in a regular coordinated rhythm. As long as the heart is getting oxygen and nutrients, it’ll keep going.
Or in other words: being brain-dead doesn’t make your heart stop beating. Being brain-dead makes you stop breathing — and *that* makes your heart stop beating. For an anencephalic fetus, not breathing isn’t an issue since the placenta is taking care of all that.
tc, you forgot half-fast.
@gbear: I would have gone more for the assume-she’s-a-man-in-drag angle, but your way is good too.
This isn’t the first time Tucker Carlson has chimed in with sympathy for terrorists, apparently as long as they’re targeting healers and Greenpeace (and New Zealand) they’re A OK with him.
PD may be a plant by some religious group. The man claims to be an MD but doesn’t know or understand the simplest points in biology or medicine. The man is a fraud and babbles on about religious mumbo-jumbo that no sane persons would use as a religious argument.
Tucker Carlson is Jonah Goldberg’s stupider brother.
And what makes it even more interesting is that phrase doesn’t appear anywhere in christianity. They’re quoting Confucius and not the bible.
Well it seems to appear everywhere in christianistity.
The heart-beat thing that anti-choicers never fail to trot out has always seemed pretty stupid to me. You know, the hamburger I ate today also had a beating heart, and so did my shoes. I’m not saying that a human fetus is morally equal to a cow, mind you, I’m just pointing out how silly using a heartbeat as an indicator of humanity is.
Oh, Punk David, I realize you’re probably just a spoof troll, but just the same: die horribly, you fuck.
Well, it’s not in the actual Bible, but it’s in some of the early Christian literature. St. Augustine of Hippo explained in City of God in the early 5th Century:
I would call Punk David a lying sackful of shit, but a real bag of manure has some useful function in this world.
I clicked the link. Dr. Tiller and his associates very clearly understood that the women and families seeking his medical expertise were human beings grieving over deeply-felt tragedies, usually fetal development gone horribly wrong. None of these women went to Dr. Tiller on a whim, and his clinic obviously does its best to mitigate their suffering to the extent possible — which, for some women, includes having a chaplin available, being able to hold their dead infant, or ensuring that the baby they wanted but couldn’t keep alive is properly interred according to their religious beliefs.
Punk David’s fellow monsters fail to understand such “bizarre” examples of empathy and Christian fortitude, because Punk David and his tribe are sociopaths whose moral development stopped well short of that of Koko the Gorilla.
I see why threads over at Sadly,No! have been free from the usual parody-troll infestation for the last couple of days.
Zifnab, thanks for the link to timecube. That’s some industrial strength crazy!
Just think – this is the same Carlson who’s starting “my own version of Huffington Post” because even after almost a decade of joyful & nearly unanimous BushCo bootlicking from the major media, he’s dead certain America now desperately needs an “objective” rightist voice that he & he alone is destined to provide.
Look for him to constantly pimp the shit out of his “objectivity” in hopes of convincing his severe-head-injury/paint-chip-huffing/Hollow Earther fan-club to subscribe … even though he does not now have, nor has ever had in the past, a single thing to say worth hearing.
The man who was murdered saved women’s lives, so wingnuts have no other choice but to keep repeating “Tiller the Killer” … they’ve been doped out on the Rovian “create our own reality” Kool-Aid for so long now that they likely can’t even perceive any alternative response. Rest assured, their shock at everyone else’s repulsion & hostility is often quite authentic.
Your Reality-Tunnel: choose it with care.
Tucker’s disdain for life even outside of the womb knows no limits.
I know there are some staunch supporters of Andrew Sullivan on this blog, and until now I have never had an opinion one way or the other
— but after watching his performance on the Tiller murder this evening on Olbermann, I am going to have to side with the hard-core “He’s an asshole” crowd.
He “disagrees” with what Dr. Tiller did.
Now mind you — there were some “very moving” stories sent into his blog today, which suddenly clued him in to the amazing, and totally unexpected, fact that most women who have late-term abortions do so under tragic circumstances, where the fetus was severely ill or deformed and would not have survived anyway — who would have thought!
But still, he “opposes” what Dr. Tiller did.
@eemom: Yeah, I saw that on his blog. I told him to fuck off in my blog. HE is morally uncomfortable with late-term abortions even though, yeah, there are really really sad reasons why women get them. We should have the morning-after pill instead because, um, yeah.
I saw him on Maher and thought of what an asshole he was. My opinion on him hasn’t changed much despite giving him several reads.
As for Tucker Carlson, he has always been a little prick, and it seems that he always will be.
Actually, none of those statements Tucker called “objectively true” were true; as documented, Dr. Tiller only approved late-term abortions for horrible diseases which rendered a healthy baby and mother totally impossible. He saved lives.
Tucker’s slandering a man who was assassinated by terrorists. *That* is objectively true. Tucker Carlson should be shunned.
Untrue. Many of his abortions were for “mental health” reasons.
@Blue: Proof please, and nice use of quotes in your sentence.
@eemom: Unfortunately, the rest of what he said made some sense. I did make myself listen to him. Still, his casual brushing off of the late-term abortion argument pisses me off.
@asiangrrlMN: Meaning that it is hard to be mentally healthy if you die during labor.
It came out during the trial–mental health was the reason given and he had another doc who would fill out form letters attesting to it for a second opinion.
Do not discount mental illness as a serious health issue and potentially life-threatening illness. People denigrate mental illness as if it is “all in one’s head” when diseases such as depression and bi-polar disorder (to name just a couple) can be seriously debilitating and in many cases can lead to suicide or lethal risk-taking behaviors. And if you have never experienced severe depression or known someone who has, you cannot imagine the pain that is also involved. It is not just “the blues” or “laziness” or whatever asshatish term some people want to attach to it.
Also, take note that Dr. Tiller was found not guilty of violating this extreme anti-abortion law. So whatever reasons his patients gave him and he accepted were with in the law.
Dr. Tiller wasn’t performing late-term abortions for women who suddenly decided they just didn’t want to be pregnant any more, no matter what the wingers want us to think.
What Blue of course leaves out is that Tiller was found NOT GUILTY ON ALL FUCKING COUNTS.
Which means that the motherfucking prosecutor in Kansas couldn’t even convince conservatives he had a fucking case.
Fact: If Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow went on TV advocating for the harming or death of Rush Limbaugh (ok, bad choice but I am running with it) the right would explode.
If Bill O goes on talking about a doctor who “kills” and something needs to be done about this guy, it’s okay I guess.
Fuck this nonsense. Wake up America before these fascists own your souls lock, stock and barrel.
@asiangrrlMN: Some of his procedures were performed for mental health reasons. For example, women with Down’s syndrome who had been raped. I suppose Sully and company think that’s some trivial shit.
According to some Operation Rescue Wacko they were “close” to proving how guilty this guy was. Yep, nice try wack jobs your delusions of grandeur are scary.
Now that these fucks have crossed him off their lists, who’s next? These morons need enemies to fight. They aren’t Christians as in Jesus loves you. They are fucking nutjobs who are no better than the Taliban.
@gex: Oh, I know that. I just don’t like the use of quotes for no reason.
@Blue: And you know what? He was found not guilty. Acquitted. So, I’m sorry, but I don’t buy your defense, as it were.
Read this to get a better idea of the women who saw Dr. Tiller (read the section Dr. George Tiller). Or this. Or even this.
I also take issue with your putting “mental health” in quotes because it trivializes an important matter, but I don’t feel like arguing that particular point.
I want a website that has Operation Rescue leaders’ crotches in a sniper target sight.
And every time you click on it, it says “Ow! My Balls!”
Look at it from Blue’s point of view, without women with mental health issues, Blue’s chances of ever getting laid approach Zero.
It is merely enlightened self-interest.
Just because a guy smokes weed doesn’t mean he’s not an asshole.
Hehe Tengu. As I ask these idiots, I have masterbated many times in my life, so does that mean you will kill me too?
These asshats do not believe in birth control and think abstinence works. Yeah right…dream on losers.
Cyrus, c’mon. All the reasonable cons are either dead (Goldwater, Kemp) or they are senile (McCain) or just plain useless (Gingrich).
The end goal of male anti-abortionists is a land where they can freely knock up women and abandon them for the next conquest.
See Also, Limburger Rush and Fuckstain McCain.
I hate abortion. Abhor it. Guess what righties, I don’t believe it should be illegal. See, I believe in privacy rights. If a woman has to make this choice, it’s mostly for a good reason. Sure some abuse the priviledge, but that’s between them, their conscience, their priest/family or God (if HE exists).
Why do you asshats want to tell people how to live? Live your life and I will live mine.
Thanks, guys, for backing me up.
@Slaney Black: Yeah, I knew that. I was choosing to be snarky instead of opening a can of whup-ass on Blue’s ass.
@Mayken: Thank you. This is what I wanted to say, but I couldn’t say it as well as you did.
Tenguphule, huh, you’re taking Blue to be male? Interesting.
…or demand they get an abortion when they tell others they want it banned.
See Barr, Bob.
Because they are asshats. It’s a fundamental part of being an asshat. WIthout it they are only a empty hat without an ass to shit in.
Simple Answers to Simple Questions.
Abortion is not good but guess what? It’s none of YOUR concern what a woman/couple do with THEIR private family matters.
Some people need to learn to follow their own right wing ideals and LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE AND MIND YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.
Tengu, you are preaching the truth.
I think, also, most wingnuts are so unhappy about themselves, they only feel better when they are looking down at/judging/trying to restrict the behavior of others.
@asiangrrlMN: But of course. And thanks for the compliment in return. Chaps my hide when folks discount mental illness as a real health issue, especially the so-called pro-lifers. I have close family who suffer from mental illnesses – I know just how (sometimes deadly) serious it can be.
Oh, and I agree, many pro-lifers have some serious issues that need to be addressed. Talk about the importance of mental health… heh!
@asiangrrlMN: There’s some truth to that. From what I recall of my wingnut years, it was this constant, blind, poorly focused rage. You see Limbaugh and Dobbs do this sometimes: they bare their teeth when they talk – when they say something really nasty. Like they’re going to bite the limb of a live creature. Something a poorly socialized stoat or badger would do.
I guarantee you Carlson did that thing with his teeth when he said the jacuzzi line. And again when he typed “objectively true” on his Banana Jr. 6000 ergonomic keyboard.
Around this point I usually notice they failed to brush their teeth.