Someone please explain to me why a bunch of House Democrats are more afraid of making Republicans sad than letting their party’s most important agenda item collapse.
It simply amazes me that Democrats could last eight years of frantically chasing whatever the hell Republicans want to talk about that week as if the Earth will crash into the sun if America don’t solve whatever problem right now and act as if they slept through the whole thing. Remember how putting aside whatever you were doing for what felt like a solid month to argue whether we should invent some new government power to stop one man in Florida from letting his brain dead wife pass on? Then there was the time Republicans convinced a swath of America that stretched from Fred Hiatt to Tom Friedman to Matt Yglesias that if we didn’t attack Iraq tomorrow Saddam Hussein might hit the east coast with radioactive al Qaeda terrorists dropped from remote control planes powered by biological weapons! You know how they did that? Sales. Whatever crappy policy the Republicans wanted to pass, they sold the hell out of it. We can agree that Republicans couldn’t govern their way out of a room with no walls, no floor and no ceiling, but god knows they could sell.
Watching Democrats try to fix health care I see a photo negative of the Bush years. Here is an issue with obvious urgency. Setting aside our shameful infant mortality rate, uninsured rate and other statistics, medical bills are by far the leading cause of personal bankruptcies. Insurer misconducy wrecks lives every day in every city in America. The right options are obvious and relatively few in number. Huge majorities support doing the right thing.
Even self-interest is similarly one sided. Remember how much Republicans invested in realigning the destroying Social Security? Imagine if they had an issue that would realign the country in their favor and instead of huge majorities violently hating it, most Americans strongly supported what they wanted to do. Republican strategists would give two of their first three kids for a shot at an issue with this much going for it.
I think about the GOP still desperately searching for even one family farm killed by the inheritance tax. Then I read nyceve’s wrenching work at Kos describing Americans deliberately murdered by insurance bureaucrats every day of the year. I dare you to read even one of nyceve’s diaries, particularly the murder by spreadsheet series, and not walk away convinced that private insurers should consider themselves lucky to have any place at all in a sensibly designed health care system. Then I turn on mainstream dialogue like the Sunday shows (three Republicans…Newt…Tom Daschle agreeing that public health care is crazy) and I start feeling like the issue doesn’t really matter that much.
Democratic politicians have dropped on this issue. I hear that Obama supports the public option. That would mean more if it felt even a little more urgent than his idea that we should have a college football playoff series. Ted Roosevelt didn’t call it the bully pulpit because it lets you chat on the radio for five minutes a week.
Congressional Democrats who wet their trousers at the thought of legislating without permission from Republicans are an order of magnitude worse. The liberal media is AWOL. When was the last time you saw a third party ad on TV that made you feel anything at all?
Anyone who can find evidence of message coordination on this issue wins a prize. Hell, I’ll give partial credit for proof that Democrats went into this with a coherent sense of what they want. Belaboring the obvious, people who care about what they’re doing normally enter negotiations with some firm goal in mind. Most would agree that it is moronic to make negotiating itself the point. Yet how is that any different from kicking off a ‘health care reform’ initiative without any firm idea of what the reform will entail? Reform is a process. Pick a goal and fight for it.
In my opinion, if Democrats cannot treat even a half-victory like the public plan as more important than Mitch McConell’s anguished, fake tears then they don’t deserve to win.
Arachnae
I have NO idea what health benefits are conferred by insurance companies at all. Why on earth are we even talking about ‘insurance’ like it has something to do with healthcare?
robertdsc
It’s one giant fuckup, from the President on down. I have no hope whatsoever that anything will change.
2liberal
we all know why this is. the lobbyists have the republicans in their back pockets, and the democrats in their front pockets. money talks and bullshit walks.
i hope a public option is included. but so far obama has been a disappointment in everything else, as has the congressional leadership.
TenguPhule
Because we supposedly buy insurance to pay the medical bills.
Only we pay and they don’t.
Comrade Stuck
Yea, I just watched a segment on the Daschle attempt to drop a public option in favor of, (cough) bi-partisanship. Which for Daschle and his ilk means getting wingnuts and Big Pharma on board the corporate welfare bandwagon.
To me, this is Obama’s big test. He’s signs a shit bill, and he loses a lot of stock with me. We shall see. I’m betting on him to come thru once again, after some dog and butterfly.
edmund dantes
At this point I’m resigned to the fact that we are going to get a knee capped busted ass public option that is specifically designed not to succeed.
One of the bigger fears is some “mandatory” requirement for insurance without addressing the underlying problems with that insurance since most Sens and Reps think the American public is stupid enough to believe that no insurance is the cause of all our problems and not an effect.
Delia
Speaking of murder by spreadsheet, read this article on rescission in the LA Times. I posted it near the bottom of your last thread. The health care CEOs basically told Congress the other day that they have no intention of giving up this practice, and even the repubs were left with no way of defending them. Even though it was in a major paper it’s gotten swept aside in the rush to find a “compromise.”
cleek
i agree: the Dems are cowardly, callous and sometimes corrupt. and Obama’s been nowhere on this.
but, Obama is going to do a prime time discussion on health care, next week. so maybe (hopefully) the battle is just starting.
grape_crush
Someone please explain to me…
Insurance industry: $21 million in 2008, $2 million so far for 2010
Pharma: $7.5 million in 2008, $750 thousand so far for 2010
Health Professionals: $50 million in 2008, $3.6 million so far for 2010
Any more questions?
A Different Matt
Healthcare’s a little different to sell on fear because there’s no big lie factor involved.
jcricket
First, amen brother.
Second, We suck. We really, really, suck.
Our whole system sucks, and costs us twice what it needs to, while failing to ensure 50 million, and barely insuring another 50 million.
It’s a fucking crisis driving thousands into bankruptcy every day, screwing small and large businesses, the unemployed, the middle class, you name it.
And yet we’re all supposed to wait for the free market to take us to magical nirvana. Fuck. That.
That the Dems are acting like this is some random piece of legislation where Republican opposition matters. It doesn’t. Pass it with zero Republican votes, pass it with 2, I don’t fucking care, and neither will the public. Just pass it with a serious public option and regulations that prevent the private industry from their worst practices (e.g. recession, pre-existing conditions, charging more for the sick).
And while you’re at it, make it clear that it’s Republicans standing in the way of them getting affordable healthcare.
The American public will be better off, and the Democrats will be politically rewarded. Nothing to fear but fear itself, indeed.
grape_crush
Oh, and that’s just contributions to Democratic politicians.
Loneoak
edmund, we share the same fears. I think the only situation that could possible be worse than what we have right now is mandated private insurance with no public option because you know there is no way that they’re going to fix private insurance without the proper competition from an efficient public plan.
I would have to consider going Galt.
Louise
@2liberal:
Yup. Everytime I read or hear some story about how the AMA or the AHA or Pharma are “now ready to participate in the reform process,” I laugh until I cry. Out front there’s this big show of ‘listening’ or ‘cooperation’ (that our wonderful media laps up) and behind the scenes? Exactly the opposite.
If only we had a fourth estate, which could cut through the bullshit and tell the citizens what’s actually going on. I know. Laugh until you cry.
Napoleon
In the last week I have totally given up on him. He gets a good health care bill through I will come back to him, but it will not happen and I will not be voting for him.
I truly think he is an incompetent and a failure.
Wile E. Quixote
It’s impossible to argue rationally with conservatives about health care because conservatives are not only intellectually dishonest, but they have no idea how the current system works. Witness this paragraph from a screed in The American Spectator about the “Medicare for All” act
Wow, scary, the doctors and hospitals are working for the government that is paying them, and not for me. The evil government will decide what health care for you is worth paying for and when you are going to get it.
Now the fact that under the current system the doctors and hospitals are working for the insurance companies who are paying them, and not for me and that the insurance companies decide what health care for me is worth paying for and when I’m going to get it doesn’t seem to bother conservatives. Conservatives don’t understand how the system works, either out of stupidity or because they deliberately refuse to do so. I don’t have a choice of health insurance companies, the company I work for chooses one for me, and I’ve been lucky that I’ve worked for some decent companies but some companies choose really shitty health insurance companies (CIGNA, AETNA) because they’re cheap, not because they do a good job. Conservatives seem to think that we all live in some wonderful free-market wonderland where, when we get sick or get into an accident, we choose which doctors to go to and then pay them out of pocket for their services.
I think that we need to attack our elected representatives on this. Seriously, we need to attack the fuckers. I want to see MoveOn.org take out ads that say “Evan Bayh’s wife gets paid $337,000 a year by WellPoint. Is he working for the people of Indiana, or is he a corporate ass-whore who is stabbing Indiana voters in the back?” or ads that point out the generous pension and insurance benefits that current and former members of Congress get and say “These bastards have no problem raising your taxes to pay for their pensions and their health care, but what have they done for you lately?”. Hell, if they were going to do that I’d start donating to them again, instead they keep hitting me up for all of these fucking pussy ads that don’t draw blood.
JC
This is where Obama and the Congress either shit, or get off the pot. I’ve been willing to let almost EVERYTHING ELSE I can about slide, because I thought a good healthcare bill would be enacted. It’s just so OBVIOUS. Saves money, saves lifes, saves Social Security (through reduction of deficit).
What I’ve kept telling myself –
Obama not following through on cap and trade? – worrisome, but at least we get real structural healthcare reform.
Obama not caring, really, about the ‘social issue’ of gay rights? Well, it sucks, and isn’t where I want things to be – but, at least we get healthcare.
Obama not engaging in real and strong financial reform, but really, basically backstopping and giving public cash to Citibank and friends?
I hate that, but, at LEAST we get real healthcare reform.
Obama giving up on transparency, regarding individual rights, on spying on americans?
Sigh. At least we get healthcare?
Obama continuing the absurd overspending of the Defense department?
We better still get healthcare, right?
But if we don’t get healthcare…
We’re just re-arranging the decks on the Titanic.
That’s all we are doing.
This deep financial monster – called healthcare money – is going to bankrupt this country – which will come out of public infrastructure money, which will come out of Social security, which will result, most likely, in a painful reduction in living.
I’ll be done. I. Will. Be. Done.
My vote, my volunteering, it’s just shows as bullshit. If that’s how it’s going to be, frack it.
Fencedude
YOU AREN’T CLUTCHING HARD ENOUGH
fester
Healthcare:Democrats::Abortion:Republicans?
Useful things to fundraise off of but what would happen to the old school hack if the problem was solved?
Emma Anne
You know, I think the reason I supported Edwards at first was because he said if you gave the insurance companies a place at the table they would eat everyone’s lunch. :-) I think the right guy is president and all that, but I really, really hope he is playing 3-d chess again. Don’t let my one-time fears of him being too moderate and amiable to get this done come to pass.
Comrade Stuck
@Napoleon:
sigh///
Emma Anne
Oh yeah, and the Dems are just sucking. They are supposed to get an earful during weekends at home and then go back and make Obama listen to the will of the people. Does he have to do everything for these people?
Will Danz
The Democrats have outdone themselves in suckiness during this health care “debate.”
Not sure what combination of cowardice and complicity is operating here, but I’m fucking ashamed to be associated with these dickless wonders.
MobiusKlein
@JC:
You forgot getting out of Iraq in some decent interval.
TenguPhule
Is this a rhetorical question?
Craig
Then there was the time Republicans convinced a swath of America that stretched from Fred Hiatt to Tom Friedman to Matt Yglesias that if we didn’t attack Iraq tomorrow Saddam Hussein might hit the east coast with radioactive al Qaeda terrorists dropped from remote control planes powered by biological weapons!
Convincing the Americans was easy due to the large, smoking crater in Manhattan. But your point is taken.
Mike P
@Napoleon: Wow…five months is all it took, eh?
Look, I want a good comprehensive deal on health care and ,yes, I’ll concede that there are some Democrats who need to recognize that their numerical majority actually means they can tell the GOP to kiss off, but come on now. Every day there’s some rending of garments or gnashing of teeth that just makes my head spin. Does Obama need to sell it more? Yes. Does Congress need to get its head out of its ass? Yes. Does there need to be better coordination amongst concerned parties to put forth a set of clear arguments for this? Yes.
But the idea that everything (health care, which we’ve been trying to reform since FDR), gay rights, the economy can be fixed in five months is, frankly, unrealistic. I’m all for urgency but I’m also for a sense of scale and proportion. Obama’s staking quite a bit on health care and I don’t think you’re going to see him sit on his hands for much longer. Anyone notice how Plouffe keeps popping up in your inbox a little more frequently? My dark powers of perception lead me to believe that there’s going to be a bottom up push coming together with the top down use of the bully pulpit to shift the debate again. Obama always seems to be a bit slow on the uptake and then he comes out and makes his case, strongly and in a persuasive manner. I suspect it’s coming and I’m all saying is instead of losing our collective shit every time something slightly negative happens, we need to grow some freaking spine, impress upon our leaders why they need to follow through and then make them do so. This sinking into mass hysteria every other day is already worn out.The “OMG Hussein X Obama is selling us out!” chorus is already getting a bit out of hand (looks at Andrew Sullivan) . You’d think if we’d learned anything from the campaign at all it would be that remaining on an even keel while pushing toward your goals is an example worth emulating.
JC
MobiusKlein,
Yeah, that too.
Thing is, Obama can’t do it by himself. As much as I want to pound on Obama – can he do it by himself?
As Emma Anne says above, and TenguPhule emphasizes –
what the F*CK is wrong with the democrats?? We elect these people to do the right thing.
It’s OBVIOUS, to anyone paying attention, that all of this is coming to a head. It’s OBVIOUS, the health care outcomes negative for the United States, compared to EVERY OTHER country that has universal healthcare. It’s OBVIOUS, whether it’s rescission, or flat out denial of health care, that 100 million suffer from either no or inadequate health care in this country, and, it’s OBVIOUS that the burgeoning cost will drive this country to be in California’s current precarious state.
And they do what? Play these f*cking games, hide behind this bullshit bipartisanship, to cover for the fact that the insurance and doctor lobbies are funding their re-election efforts?
Do something for the people you represent!!
Brendan
The lulz! They wouldn’t stop.
THIS. I saw Steve McMahon (bless his heart) on Hardball last week. Supposedly speaking from the Democratic perspective, he urged Democrats to abandon the public option in order to secure 70-75 Senate votes. Only in the Village does anyone give one circlejerking damn about the margin.
The roadmap is somewhat unclear at this point, but we can wait until the fall for a public option. Ben Nelson is quivering? Screw him. Mary Landrieu has Very Serious Concerns? Forget her. The public option should not be negotiable, and it does not have to be. We can cobble together 50 Senators and wait for the “no more fillibuster” rule to kick in. The Republicans will complain, and David Broder will tut-tut but the changes will be solid, politically legendary and permanent.
Even if the Republicans stumble back into electoral relevance, they’ll never be able to undo these reforms. The public option will be like Medicare, practically untouchable.
I advise lots of patience with Obama, but there’s no reason this can’t get done.
JC
Mike P,
I hope you are right – I still have hope in the Obama
I GOT THIS! message.
But – we, as a country, need this. Desperately.
Desmond
I’m seriously becoming convinced that the US political system is just too broken to get anything of note accomplished. The Republicans are too busy being dicks, and the Democrats are too busy being dickless.
And Obama isn’t showing any leadership for progressive positions on these issues, even though polls show that consistent majorities of Americans favor things like cap and trade and a public health care option, and oppose things like detention without trial and torture.
Somehow that doesn’t compute for the Democrats or the so called “liberal media” that fires real journalists like Dan Froomkin while continuing to pay ignorant warmongering douchebags like Charles Krauthammer to spew their bullshit propaganda.
I just don’t get it. And it scares the hell out of me. Something’s gotta give, or we’re all in for a very bumpy ride in the coming years.
Mike P
@JC:
I’m scared I’m not right…my predictive ability is about as good as Eric Cantor’s grasp of history and contemporary international relations.
I mean, I want this. I want Obama to get this through (I have a real stake in this as a journalism grad student with a pre-existing medical condition). I just can’t walk around like Charlie Brown all the time, which has been the default Democratic pose on almost everything since 2000.
Comrade Vida Loca
This:
and also this:
The simplest explanation for the Democrats is that the ones in Congress don’t care diddly/squat about health care reform. The one in the White House cares some, but not a lot; not enough to take any risks to push through, and mobilize public support for, something good as opposed to something truly mediocre.
One of the reasons I was truly unenthusiastic about Hillary was because of the mess that she and Bill made of the health care reform initiative on their watch. This time is not looking any better although I think the public mood has shifted significantly in the past 16 years.
Delia
What I find very depressing is that Daschle was Obama’s first pick to be leader of the health care reform effort and it turns out he’s such a squiggly little worm. Surely Obama knew that. Maybe we need to take a lesson from those Iranian students or something.
JC
It is very very scary. The healthcare issue is just so OBVIOUS. You look at it, it’s basic math.
BASIC MATH!!
And all the press, the congresspeople, keep this polite fiction that the Republicans and the various industry spokesman have something of wisdom to contribute, when they say 2+2=5.
And the democrats seem to want to be ‘bipartisan’, such that passing bills where 2+2= 4 1/2.
But 2+2 = 4, and the reality of universal healthcare, structually done right, on the budget, on the health of one hundred million people, is indisputable.
A little bit more “informed reality-based community” would sure be nice.
Tsulagi
You don’t understand Tim, Obama’s plate is full. As for Congressional Dems, they pick their battles and keep their powder drier than any shit in the known universe.
Getting really tired of those mantras. As for Obama’s plate, can someone get him a goddamned fork and knife? And really, he doesn’t have to eat it all himself. He’s got people. His people have people. Those people have people. There is a whole shitload of people who could dig into the sides and also help with the entrees. And they better because the kitchen isn’t closing down and more will be more coming to the plate.
As for the congressional Dems, they’re a lost cause. Republicans say “boo” and they ask how high should they jump. The weird thing is they do that trying to avoid the Pubs getting mad at them and calling them names. Which they will do regardless. What’s that condition you have if you keep repeating the same course of action over and over again but expecting a different result?
joypog
man all i got left for this health care is “hope”. I sure hope that Obama can pull of some semblance of a substantive first step towards public health care. We ain’t getting single payer, but if we don’t get something that gets the insurance guys to shape up. I hiope we don’t get stuck with nothing or some wussy ass compromise we’ll have to live with for another 16 years (I’ll be freaking 46!).
then again, I expect the dem’s to blow this….so hopefully I’ll have a job over the nest 16 years until something actually happens maybe….
ronin122
@Desmond:
I’m gonna steal that line from you if you don’t mind, even though it’s basically a variant of the usual “Republicans have no heart/brain (either works really), Dems have no spine”.
Seriously though, I ask if there is a reason why a party who is BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF THE OTHER POLITICAL PARTY THAT IS CURRENTLY WANDERING IN THE FUCKING DESERT has to act like if they don’t share their toys with these GOP assholes and be “bi-partisan” then they will be punished, even though no one expects the GOP to do the same when they’re in power and especially when done so only by a thread. I see this shit on basically every issue. I understand that the GOP is homogeneously right wing while the Dems have pretty much more than 50% of the total left-right spectrum to concern themselves with, but at some point they gotta stop acting like they work more for their opposing party than their own.
Seriously, the only reason I cannot full-heartedly say that unless the Dems quit this triangulation bullshit real soon (basically by September 2010) we’re gonna have a repeat of the Clinton years guaranteed, is because unlike in 1994 the GOP is so lost and fucked after Bush Jr. that the Dems can probably fuck every possible thing up and still be in power for at least 4 years. Not that I am as impatient as others, especially considering how everything right now is FUBAR and expecting immediate results after 5 months is unfair, but after the Clinton years who in their right mind would think that making the whiny GOPers happy is more important than doing what needs to be done, esp. when it has the added benefit of actually MAKING THE BASE HAPPY?
Then again, if the Dems either get zero results or anything they do ends up in the GOP favor, is it any wonder that a party that covers further into the centrist territory cannot somehow maintain persistent political dominance? This is why people say they’re no different than the GOP, because this bullshit to triangulate and end up pissing everyone off instead of making everyone reasonably-though-incompletely satisfied; at least with the GOP you know precisely what you’re gonna get (nothing good), and they even tend to satisfy their base every once in a while.
Edit: I should note that it’s not every Dem that’s the problem, esp. since as I implied with the GOP you know damn well you’re going to get feces wrapped under your Christmas tree, but it sure is hard to feel anything positive when there’s just enough senators that are either bought off, stupid, or spineless, that any effective action is a lost cause (I specify senate since those in the House are nowhere near as bad and almost never the issue, hell they’re the ones usually complaining about the same things we are e.g. the public option thing) since we know none on the other side are going to do anything. Doesn’t help when the Senate majority leader is as worthless as Harry Reid and when your President seems so cautious about making angry those that are going to whine as simply their job that he ends up making everyone else angry and satisfying no one. Again, not impatient but some more initiative is appreciated
Rick Taylor
Democrats consistently open up from a position of compromise, then compromise from there. When Republicans sold tax cuts in 2000, he started with a proposal with virtually nothing for the middle class, then added some tax cuts for them in the ensuing debate. The liberal plan (and the sensible plan) is single payer; a public option is a compromise from that.
Little Dreamer
We need congressional leaders with balls.
Desmond
Political issues really don’t get much simpler than this, do they? America pays twice as much for health care as any other industrialized country, and has worse outcomes, while leaving significant percentages of the population either uninsured or underinsured.
All the opponents of the public option can do is regurgitate their tired magical unicorn fantasyland bullshit about the free market somehow eventually maybe finding a cost effective solution, and any hint of universal coverage being dirty bad evil socialism. This nonsense still works on the 28 percenters, but most Americans are well past it. Which makes the Democrats’ lack of a unified front on this all the more depressing and irritating.
The Grand Panjandrum
You had me at Someone.
ronin122
@Tsulagi: I agree mostly with what you said, though by Congressional Dems I should say it’s about 90% the Senate (a la the whole “we need 60 votes, even though we just need 50 plus Biden with the nay Dems actually showing some party loyalty and voting for cloture and not siding with the enemy”…and you wonder why no one likes our waste of space Sen. Majority Leader (really? we’re the majority now?)…). Not that the house never irks me but just by the nature of how the bicamel system works you tend to get more loyalists and rabblerousers in the House and a genteel’s club of assholes in the Senate, and more often than not it’s the senate that seems to be the main impediment.
That said, Obama does have his hands full and as I stated in a previous post it doesn’t help that things are beyond FUBAR at this point and expecting miracles now let alone anytime soon is fruitless. However, on almost every major issue (LGBT, financial system, this) his administration has done little more than backpedaling and focusing more on “bipartisanship” (read, making a few token GOPers happy even though there’s no point) than actually getting done what needs to be done or what ought to be. He may not be writing the laws and he will sign into law the things we want that do reach his desk, but this triangulating bullshit does nothing except embolden the conservadems or the bought off dems (depends on what the issue is) into siding with the GOP on whatever their token issue(s) may be and getting nothing done. It’s time to at least stand his ground on an issue even if he cannot do anything more with it than pressure Congress to give him a bill to sign.
Desert Rat
This is a failure of Obama’s leadership.
When you want to sell a plan to spend as much money as this does, you have to sell it. Where the fuck are the town halls? Why isn’t he touring the country selling this?
He’s got close to 60 votes when he needs 51. Why isn’t he sending Joe Biden on Capitol Hill (or heaven forbid, putting his own neck on the line to kick the shit out of these feckless center-right tits on a bull like Max Baucus, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, and Mary Landrieu.
This is the biggest domestic policy change this country has made since the Civil Rights Act & Great Society, so why the fuck is Obama treating this like it’s just another routine spending bill?
I will say this. If Health Care fails this time, I’m done. I will support a primary challenger to him in 2012. I will sit on my hands. I sure as hell won’t work for him again or give money to him again. Nor for any other feckless pieces of shit in Congress that work against a public option.
You have to earn my vote, and frankly, between his backpeddling on Gitmo, on Iraq, on gay rights, and on wiretapping, Barack hasn’t even begun to do that.
A message of change doesn’t mean shit when you aren’t willing to sell it or work for it…and as far as I can tell, Obama’s sitting on his ass.
Tim F.
Word. The next time I open a bottle of anhydrous sodium phosphate and find sticky crystals I’m sending it to Reid’s office. Nobody dries powder like him.
El Cid
I think there are a lot of Democrats who really do want to pass some big thing which will be called “reforming health care”, but our actual lives are worthless to them and so they don’t give a shit about actually reforming health care in any way which would harm the profitability of the insurance and other health care interests.
If they can’t even do this for me, they can fuck off. Let the country go to shit. Keep giving trillions to the banks. Do whatever the fuck you want. Just wait and see if I’m going to waste one more second or dollar on their bullshit begging how ‘if only we had 300 Senators and 8 million Democrats then we really really might do something…’
ronin122
@Little Dreamer: I hope that does not rule out females ;-). If the top leadership says anything on the matter, female Pelosi surely has much more than Reid (though not saying much considering Reid has an amount in the negative numbers). Not that she makes me ecstatic by all means but at least she gets shit done in the House, which has many more varieties of constituent reps to appease so I’m reasonably content. Then again I think I hate Reid so much that I cannot even accurately gauge my sentiments about anyone else since I by default compare them to him.
ruemara
Let’s see, this morning I contacted the WH and said I was for public option. I then contacted Boxer and Feinstein, repeated said yes on public. I then chewed out Durbin for being a human jelly. Then I forced all my household to do the same. Then I posted the need for people to contact WH and their congress weenies. I just finished talking to my state legislature rep. I will repeat until I get what I want. I’m sorry, this is too important to get all WATB on it and I’m tired of hearing progressives, liberals or just plain dems yowl. What’s my point? How often do you tell you reps how you want them to vote and tell the people who are busy pulling your government in the wrong direction to cut that shit out? I appreciate where you’re coming from, but this O NOES! TEH OBAMA IZ FAILS! is pissing me off.
Jackie
Second verse same as the first.
If this is important to you You get to Sell It. You and all the people you know need to make them know that they will pay if you don’t get what you want.
Obama has staked his rep on this and you can’t think that he won’t work it form his end. Those congressman are ALOT more afraid and you need to make them afraid of YOU.
If every day your congressman hears more from you than those ever so loud 28% and the ever more influential lobbiest you can win this. They want the lobby money because it helps them win elections. You have votes and you have volunteer labor. Convince them they will pay a price.
AJS-DC
Frankly, this is why I told the DNC and the other D** organizations that my wallet was now shut to them. It was easier being a vocal opposition than part of a pussy do nothing majority. F them.
Jennifer
Ok, contacting your reps and senators is a good idea, and I’ve done it. And now Blanche Lincoln will vote against anything that includes a public option, just like she was going to do all along.
I hate to be so negative, and by all means everyone should raise a huge stink with their representatives, however it’s a bit naive to think it will work. Didn’t work on wireless wiretapping. Didn’t work on torture investigations. Hasn’t worked on any number of issues important to ordinary people in this country for something like the past 20 years or so.
I said on an earlier thread that I’m full of unworkable ideas, and I am, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t some of them that absolutely would work, if we weren’t all so timid and afraid of discomfort. A prime one would be if ten or twenty million people contacted their representative and enclosed a copy of a letter to their insurer asking for termination of coverage 90 days hence, noting in the letter to the representative something to the effect that if they think health care is a mess now, they ain’t seen nuthin’ yet and that the clock is ticking and in 90 days the whole system’s gonna go ka-boom if they don’t get off their asses and vote for a plan including a public option. I’d be willing to bet we’d have our public option in well under 90 days. The insurers themselves would be demanding it. And if we didn’t, we’d need to be prepared to follow up on the threat.
And this goes double if we get some lame ass fix like forcing everyone to buy private insurance without reigning them in on their bloated profits and recissions and all the rest.
That’s one of the things that depresses me most about this whole issue – we ourselves could fix it if we’d all just agree to stop doing business with the private insurers, all at the same time. Those bastards would be out of business overnight, and then there’d be no choice but to set up a government single-payer system. But we won’t do that, because we’re all too worried about our own shit and protecting it to do what needs to be done.
pattonbt
Real health care reform which truly addresses the ills of our current system in any substantial form was NEVER going to get passed under Obama from the get go. Thats not a slam on Obama but on the system (political and corporate system) thats in place right now.
For the left of the generation that is still in power its an esoteric thing to ‘be for’ and ‘campaign on’ but not something they get punished for not addressing in a meaningful way. They ‘believe’ in the concept and ideology but they know they dont have to deliver on it.
Health care reform (like, IMHO real gay rights) wont happen until the next generation comes into power. I see Obama as a good bridge to that generation.
Truthfully, I hope no reform is passed in the next decade because whatever sausage comes out now will be more harmful than helpful.
The next generation of R’s will be more open to these types of issues than the old as dust idiots currently in power. But the next generation of R’s is probably at best 10 years away.
The next generation D’s will be about the same but a little less beholden to idiocy (and money – yeah wishful thinking I know).
Add on that that businesses no longer want to bear the burden of health care costs and will eventually put their muscle behind reform things can then move forward.
Short term, though, it sucks and it will be double tough in the next five to ten years with the crater and after effects of the economic meltdown. Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Unfortunatelt thats what it takes sometimes to move the ball in the right direction.
Joshua Norton
Screw this hangup on being “bipartisan”. Any part of the bill that the Repugs like will be useless crap, since they’re in the corporate pockets and are financially obligated to protect their master’s profits above all else.
This was his signature issue so he better do something grand with it. If Chimpy can ram through a war, Barry can get Health Care settled.
My2Cents
Maybe you should try campaigning more effectively for what you want instead of whining about it to us. If Congress isn’t doing what you want it to do, do something more effective. Don’t complain about how your elected leaders are failing you.
Jackie
@Jennifer: Great work but you don’t get to stop at that. Not all of them are reachable either because they are hearing more from the others, they are convinced their seat is safe or they are corrupt and hoping for a job.
But as unpleasant as it is you then have the joy of making phone calls and knocking on doors and talking to people.
I agree this seems an ideal window for building a coalition. Lots of people who always had good insurance just starred at the unemployment abyss. Some of them noticed their insurance is tied to their job. Some employers have noticed their going broke trying to do right by their workforce.
I I don’t even expect to have a song in my heart at this bill when it passes. I don’t expect to see single payer in my lifetime and I’m only middle aged. I really believe that if we fight our hearts out we will get a mediocre bill that includes a public option. And that is oceans better than what we have now. And then we will have to suit up and fight to make it better. Let’s have more courage than our congress critters. It won’t be over for a long time and they win when we go Meh They’re all the same.
My2Cents
Why don’t you guys try doing something *effective* instead of whining about how Congress and Obama are failing you? Where are the ads? Vote for different people. Quit coming here and whining about it to your supporters.
Gus
Yep. Democrats have the same corporate masters as Republicans. They have to throw the unions a bone occasionally, but other than that the big mistake is expecting them to do anything. They don’t do anything because they don’t want to do anything.
Fulcanelli
Harry Reid, the I ‘Bleu’ Dogs Democrats and the Waffle House Democrats like Nelson, Landrieu and the rest all need to wake up with a donkey’s head in their beds. And fuck PETA with a hand grenade if they object. I want my fucking torture trial/health care/Wall St. smack down pony, bitchez.
I haven’t given up on the MUP by any means, but I’ll feel a lot better when they build a woodshed out in back of the White House and Obama starts inviting Senate Democrats for cocktails and I hear reports of his daughters being kept awake by blood curdling screams. Where’s all this legendary IDF arm twisting mojo Rahm Emannuel’s supposed to have?
After all the hubbub at the beginning about how strict the application for employment in the Obama administration was, and then the next thing you hear is how they’re making exemptions for certain positions so they can hire lobbyists to fill jobs I got an all too familiar sinking feeling in my stomach.
I agree with Bill Maher in that Obama needs to worry less about being liked and having all these “man of the people” outings filmed like he’s on one of those useless MTV reality shows, and worry more about trepanning a few Democrat heads and start skull fucking ’em into line, or else.
BTW, anybody got any ideas why Howard Dean is like the homeless Wandering Jew after the miracle he pulled off as Chairman of the DNC? Why wasn’t he offered a cabinet post. Or something.
And BOB, if you’re hovering in the blog thread ethers waiting to seize and pounce on my momentary disgust by prattling about Imam advice on anal sex and birth certificates… Don’t. Just fucking don’t.
Texas Dem
I think the sad reality many Dems are having trouble coming to terms with is that reform must come in stages. We’ll probably have to start with a lukewarm bill that falls well short of universal coverage but ends some of the more abuse practices in the insurance industry (limits on coverage for pre-existing illnesses, canceling coverage when people get sick, etc.). Then, in a few years, something more comprehensive can be enacted. We need to abandon the fantasy that we’re going to get anything like universal coverage this year. Most people still have health insurance and are reasonably satisfied with their coverage. That makes sweeping reform of the health care industry very difficult, if not impossible.
And the reason the bill needs to be bipartisan is because the Dems will need political cover for some of the unpopular things that need to be done (taxing gold-plated health care plans, for example). Not to mention the fact that it would be nice if the reforms to survived beyond the end of Obama’s term.
jc
A couple more questions, and a couple more observations.
I live in San Francisco – so my reps will vote for the bill. What else do I do? I’ve talked with family/friends.
I’ve emailed/called.
I suppose I could give more money to MoveOn – lord knows I get the emails – but for what? What’s the facebook/mass movement, that we need to sign, to kick this into high gear? (and will Obama be using his lists? Most important thing all year.)
Those who are saying, we have to do this in stages – really?
Do you really think the financial picture is going to get better, if this isn’t done soon? The hole in the boat will just keep larger, we need to plug the hole soon.
Do you really think that the political situation will get better? Maybe in 15 years, sure – but if Obama really doesn’t do anything other than these small, picayune changes – that, along with the dragging recession/unwinding of massive debt, rearrangement of financial order (and not to the US’s favor), the gas situation continuing it’s drag, the increased money that’s been stolen from social security over the last 20 years to mask the deficit, not able to be stolen anymore, as the money for social security swells to match coming in…
You tell me – the above are ‘facts on the ground’ is a situation that is going to – at least to a degree – constrain the economic situation over the next 4 years, at least. You don’t think there is a chance that this Carter-izes Obama’s efforts?
(That was my big fear, BTW, for a democratic President this time – that Bush so fucked up things, that it would take a decade to get a RESPONSIBLE president and Congress to have things back on an even keel – just enough time for another Republican to get in there and fuck it up again!!)
At any rate – there isn’t a guarantee that the democratic majorities that we enjoy NOW, will continue in the future. With the immediacy of Bush’s failure, the Republicans failure, the financial scare – these factors speak for doing the RIGHT THING now.
And we get this bipartisan bullshit fairy tale.
Yes, I’m being Charlie Brownish – talk me down from the Waambulance, please, I need it…
Brachiator
I agree with you here big time. The Democrats keep acting as though they don’t believe that they won the election. There is little co-ordination and co-operation, as far as I can see, between the Congressional leadership and the White House.
The American people clearly kicked the Republicans to the curb, but the Democrats keep acting as though the Republicans are even slightly relevant to anything. Although the Republicans can play obstructionist games, any time they do so they should be challenged to produce an actual idea.
On the other hand, it is simply not acceptable for the Obama White House to proclaim that health care is crucial, and then fail to come up with a coherent plan.
And while there may be a number of viable options out there, somebody needs to pick one and sell it on its merits.
As an aside, the failure of the Clinton health plan is the best thing that could have happened to this country, but not for any obvious reason.
Hillary was not elected by anyone, not confirmed by anyone, was not a cabinet or White House official. The idea that a presidential spouse (without regard to gender) be given some kind of executive authority without any constitutionally recognized legitimacy is absolutely and totally repugnant. It doesn’t matter how smart or wonderful that spouse may be.
The Raven
Because the party leadership, and the Senate Democratic leadership are conservative.
We need to found a liberal party.
Elie
The only thing that I am surprised about is that so many of you are surprised that this won’t be some easy process where just the bill we want (with the public option spelled out boldly) won’t just happen…
Why the hell do you think that health care is near 17% of our GNP? There are a lot of piglets on the teats of American healthcare and those piglets will not be cut off easily.
The best answer to this is what can we do and how can we get ourselves prepared for the gargantuan battle that this is going to be?
This isnt really about Obama or the Democrats or any one party. This is the last bastion of runaway profits and if we are to take any lessons from our experience of the last year or so – we will have to pry change out of their cold dead hands.
So lets stop grinching about why magic hasnt happened in one pen stroke and figure out how to persist and dig in and push this along BY OUR WILLS into the foreseeable future — cause that is what its going to take in my opinion —
Elie
The only thing that I am surprised about is that so many of you are surprised that this won’t be some easy process where just the bill we want (with the public option spelled out boldly) won’t just happen…
Why the hell do you think that health care is near 17% of our GNP? There are a lot of piglets on the teats of American healthcare and those piglets will not be cut off easily.
The best answer to this is what can we do and how can we get ourselves prepared for the gargantuan battle that this is going to be?
This isnt really about Obama or the Democrats or any one party. This is the last bastion of runaway profits and if we are to take any lessons from our experience of the last year or so – we will have to pry change out of their cold dead hands.
So lets stop grinching about why magic hasnt happened in one pen stroke and figure out how to persist and dig in and push this along BY OUR WILLS into the foreseeable future — cause that is what its going to take in my opinion —
TimmyB
The insurance and “healthcare industry” bribe our elected politicians with million and millions of dollars in campaign contributions every year.
That’s why their interests are being protected by our elected politicians. And that’s why single payer isn’t even discussed, and why anthing that hurts the rich and powerful will NEVER get done.
Any other questions?