Jon Henke about the near riots at the health care forums:
Reports out of Florida indicate that Democrats have decided to do something about the emerging threat of those pesky voters talking back to their betters. You see, the way it works is the politicians talk AT the people, and the people shut up and listen. These angry people are doing it wrong.
Here’s the video of the behavior Henke is encouraging:
They weren’t there to debate and discuss. They were not there to exhange ideas or to be heard. They were there to disrupt- they were chanting “tyranny” before the Rep. even started talking. They were there to shut things down and to intimidate. This wasn’t a public meeting, it was a near-mob.
I hope the Republican party enjoys the very public long, deep tongue-kiss they are having with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and the lunatic fringe.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
I just hope the majority of voters are smart enough to know who to blame when meaningful healthcare reform officially falls through. And I hope they vote accordingly in November 2010.
schrodinger's cat
These people are scary, how long before some one gets hurt?
Lyle4
Ahhh yes, old white people, gotta love them. They sure do enjoy shouting for no reason whatsoever.
Jay in Oregon
If not, Glenn Beck will be happy to explain it to you.
Michael
I’d claim that this is Peak Wingnut, but I’m afraid we’re not there yet.
It needs a contemporaneous shout of “WOLVERINES!” to be Peak Wingnut.
cleek
ignorant wingnut is ignorant
Seebach
As close as we got to fascism over the last 8 years, we never quite got there, according to David Neiwert and others. The one reason was because elites on the right never created common cause with masses of “brownshirts” who used physical intimidation to curtail political goals.
Well, it’s clear that we have that now.
Joshua Norton
All this does is make their ignorance audible. The GOP’s methods to disrupt town hall meetings are a low-level application of human intelligence driven by desperation.
The Bearded Blogger
I decided not to watch the video. Looking at those kinds of videos, like the florida 2000 scremaers, makes me feel kinda sick.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
@Jay in Oregon:
“If not, Glenn Beck will be happy to explain it to you.”
That is the Republican plan, isn’t it? Sabotage health care, then hope the voters are stupid enough to blame Democrats for not reforming health care.
It’s worked for them before. Appealing to the voters’ stupidity and short-term memory has been the GOP’s primary method of survival since the Great Depression. It could very well work again for them this time.
Brick Oven Bill
If you want to see a good mob, ask Tom Tancredo to give a talk at Michigan State University, even if Tom is not attempting to impose his will on anybody.
Watch the mobsters kick, spit, and pull fire alarms. These are the better mobsters. These Citizens raising concerns about the health care bill are pretty crappy mobsters, relatively speaking. There wasn’t even any violence.
These crappy health care mobsters can probably be handled by sending in a minimal amount of union muscle.
Bubblegum Tate
According to my favorite wingnut blog, this is all ACORN’s fault. No, really. Obama called in his socialist Marxist commie Nazi buddies at ACORN, and they went to this townhall and “heckled” the tantrumers, causing the tantrums.
It makes sense in their world, believe me.
Bubblegum Tate
According to my favorite wingnut blog, this is all ACORN’s fault. No, really. Obama called in his s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t Marxist commie Nazi buddies at ACORN, and they went to this townhall and “heckled” the tantrumers, causing the tantrums.
It makes sense in their world, believe me.
Joshua Norton
If you think this is bad, it’s pretty tame compared to the last time Denny’s raised the price of their Early Bird specials another 50 cents.
/snark
GReynoldsCT00
Mentioned over a Tbogg’s place, all these OLD white people are probably on government Medicare… more of “I have mine”
jcricket
throws up in the mouth a little.. vurp.
It shows no signs of abating, does it? In fact, it appears to be accelerating at a more rapid pace than I expected (given the relative middle-of-the-roadness Obama represents).
It either leads the GOP straight off a cliff, and fast (big losses in 2010 and 2012) – or America’s in for a long, violent (at least verbally) decade.
Cat Lady
@Bubblegum Tate:
Just wow. Has there ever been a moment in the last 20 years that a Republican/wingnut stood up and accepted responsibility for anything? I can’t think of anything, no matter how busted they were. There are always the most ridiculous excuses for every bit of stupidity and absurdity. They’re all fucking clinical.
kay
@Scruffy McSnufflepuss:
Oh, no. They’re going to blame Democrats, as they should. Democrats are going to have to take an actual political risk.
It’s an easy call. There aren’t going to be any draconian ill-effects of health care reform, because Republicans are making all this stuff up. Their whole argument is completely ridiculous.
What exactly are Republicans going to point to once legislation is passed? The Obama death squads fanning out?
All they have to do is take the risk and get it through. Passing reform will both discredit Republicans and fulfill the promise they made. Small short-term risk, huge reward.
The way to discredit Republicans is to pass legislation. There is no other way. If they don’t pass it, the lies survive, and Republicans will run on them. All the downside is with NOT acting.
mistermix
Speaking of Glenn Beck wackjobs, the guy who killed those people on Wednesday was, you guessed it.
jcricket
@Bubblegum Tate: I can’t even understand the ACORN hate. Do they really think anyone understands or cares about ACORN? It sounds like an innocuous group. Even the “Soros-funded” stuff was stretchy for the average person to get incensed about.
They keep doubling down on top of their shaky foundations with the rhetoric. It’s pathetic, really. I guess screaming, yelling & physical intimidation is all they have left now.
pharniel
fyigm-ism at its finest. my dad (who’s also a nirther and Glibratarian) doesn’t quite understand that his cancer treatment under most plans sould have run out about halfway through.
but govn’t healthcare will destroy this country!>!>!>!>1>1
pharniel
fyigm-ism at its finest. my dad (who’s also a nirther and Glibratarian) doesn’t quite understand that his cancer treatment under most plans sould have run out about halfway through.
but govn’t healthcare will destroy this country!>!>!>!>1>1
Sentient Puddle
@Joshua Norton:
When you got people around the country saying “Keep government out of my Medicare!” without any hint of irony, I’m tempted to think that the facts of this debate have become distorted enough that proudly displaying your ignorance actually helps your case.
There’s not a lot I’m cynical about in politics, but the health care debate sure is one of them.
jcricket
@kay: what kay said * 1000.
Seebach
<iIt shows no signs of abating, does it? In fact, it appears to be accelerating at a more rapid pace than I expected (given the relative middle-of-the-roadness Obama represents).
Someone else said it at this blog, but it IS a lot like the John Birch Society vs. John F. Kennedy from 1960-1964 as described in Perlstein’s Before the Storm. Fortunately, we know that ended well, so I think people are just being silly.
JM
Yeah, it’s a shame when you can’t scream n—-r in a crowded theater.
nepat
I wouldn’t worry too much. Once health care reform passes, the government will be euthanizing most of these folks anyway. And aborting their grandchildren.
Seebach
It shows no signs of abating, does it? In fact, it appears to be accelerating at a more rapid pace than I expected (given the relative middle-of-the-roadness Obama represents).
Someone else said it at this blog, but it IS a lot like the John Birch Society vs. John F. Kennedy from 1960-1964 as described in Perlstein’s Before the Storm. Fortunately, we know that ended well, so I think people are just being silly.
The Pale Scot
I considered going, but I haven’t been able to find work since i got off workman’s comp after two years of fighting the insurance company over a cut and dried knee injury. I don’t have the money to deal with ending up in jail like I know I would have. the locals around here are dumb as dogshit, Terri Schiavo was up the road from me, and the teacher that was dismissed for practicing “wizardry” is down the road from me. did we really have to bring these people back in to the Union after the Civil War? Should have made them colonies. These people are the same ignorant bigots that started the troubles in Ireland. There is a BBC documentary “Provos, Loyalists and Brits” that has footage of Ian Paisley standing beside a Catholic civil rights march screaming that they were advocating violence, the killing started the next week.
The irony is the Catholics were seeking changes that would have benefited poor prods also, but god forbid if a better deal means those you hate benefit also. Ian Paisley, David Duke, the GOP, as Joe Bageant says, “fighting and fucking, drinking and praying”, but don’t start thinking whatever you do. Your masters might notice and deny you the table scraps.
America’s White Underclass
When seeing ain’t believing, somebody’s blind
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/07/americas-white-underclass.html#more
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
@kay:
I wish you were Harry Reid, is all I can say.
Jay B.
Henke’s a lying fucking scumbag.
kay
@jcricket:
When we’re bashing our heads on our desks watching Republicans running in 2010 on “saving Medicare from the Democrats” we’ll know they succeeded.
Because they’ll do it, and we know it. What are Democrats going to come back with? “We wouldn’t have killed you”?
SpotWeld
It’s some sort of funhouse mirror efffect.
Throughout the elections Beck et al were shouting about how liberal mobs were causing havoc by showing up to town hall meetings and asking questions.
With waiving arms the pundits was rail against anyone who would question the actions of the president. It was presentented as tantamount to armed insurrection.
Now, when the shoe is on the otherfoot, the base has been so conditioned to think that poltical discourse = disruptive mob they have no trouble crossing the line into near violence when so directed to present thier own political discourse. The literally cannot see the difference between inarticulate screaming and actual critical dicussion.
And the worst part is Glenn Beck is still holding up that mirror saying that it’s all the same.
Bubblegum Tate
@Cat Lady:
No, they never take responsibility for anything. These people are absolutely wedded to the “conservative always = good/liberal always = bad” outlook–they’re loud and proud about it–and therefore anything bad that happens is always, by definition, the fault of “the left.” It just becomes a sort of “six degrees of Kevin Bacon” thing to make the connection: “I can make this the liberals’ fault in four moves!” The closest I’ve ever seen them come to accepting responsibility is saying that this wingnut or that one was wrong because he became “too liberal.”
@jcricket:
ACORN are community organizers–just like B. Hitler Hussein Maobama!–and are footsoldiers in the Great Commie Takeover. That’s the best I can figure out. Also, these wingers take it as unshakable truth that ACORN committed vast voter fraud in 2008, installing Obama illegally.
From there, it’s pretty easy to make them the villains in just about anything. All those people shouting retarded bullshit at the tea tantrums? “ACORN infiltrators trying to make real Americans look bad!” No joke.
Elie
What Kay said:
‘All they have to do is take the risk and get it through. Passing reform will both discredit Republicans and fulfill the promise they made. Small short-term risk, huge reward.
The way to discredit Republicans is to pass legislation. There is no other way. If they don’t pass it, the lies survive, and Republicans will run on them. All the downside is with NOT acting”
This is no different than any other game changing legislation efforts. Civil rights, voting rights act, Medicare — were all difficult and involved courage and persistence to enact.
The mobs pursued civil rights activists with dogs and firehoses. Children were screamed at as they entered their schools… People were spat upon, jailed and killed. Right now, this aint nothin…
No excuses. Get it done
kay
@Scruffy McSnufflepuss:
I think Democrats get it, actually. They’re in a bit of a bind, for cowards. Nothing much of anything is going to happen until 2012, for one thing, if they pass any of the current proposals.
Seniors will be all hunkered down, waiting for the roving health police, and nothing is going to happen, then it gradually triggers in, and still nothing much of anything happens, for them. It will be a bit of a let-down, probably.
The Bearded Blogger
@jaycricket, 17
my thoughts exactly, either the GOP is self-destructing, or democracy is.
burnspbesq
As long as Mr. Henke is slinging Python references, I would simply say to him, “Your type really makes me puke.”
Just Some Fuckhead
Republicans appear to have missed out on some of the important lessons of kindergarten.
Brick Oven Bill
The Daily Kos must be very scared of Glenn Beck to try to tie him to that gym killer. It was a very poor attempt, as Glenn is a big HBD-Denier. He has also gone on at length about suicide and how it is never the right answer. He gets emotional about his own mother’s suicide.
That was pretty dishonest of the Daily Kos mistermix. I challenge you to tell or show me anything that Glenn Beck has ever said that was knowingly incorrect or dishonest.
Glenn does encourage Citizens to participate peacefully in the democratic process, which is a good thing. The left fears Glenn because he is such an effective communicator, and is genuine. The tongue kiss is, I believe not with Glenn but instead with reality, and it kind of gamey. Nobody asked for this tongue kiss.
This legislation sucks. There should be a rule that a single piece of legislation can be no longer than ten pages.
jcricket
Oh, I get what they think, I just fail to see how anyone seriously expects non-wingnuts to be converted to the cause over ACORN.
At least, I dunno, UN takeover sounds actually scary. ACORN? Sounds like some kind of squirrel group.
You know that whole quote about “you can’t shout nigger, nigger, nigger, so it’s state’s rights, etc”? I think we’ve reached the logical conclusion of that. The outrage is so watered down and nonsensical (because all the standard stuff would expose their rank bigotry) that it has ceased to become effective.
rs
Most of those protesters look like the many of the attendees at our township board meetings- a tenuous connection to reality unless they’ve taken their Aricept. Someone needs to lead the anti-government health care seniors in a good, old-fashioned Medicare card burning. I’m not so sure about congressional town hall meetings, but anyone disrupting one of our board or planning commission meetings like the yahoos we see at the townhalls would be first asked to leave, and then arrested if they continued that behavior.
Another good tactic might be to pack those meetings with young black guys and/or union members (the Democrat’s “base”, if you will) like the guy sitting near the front in the video. Nothing scares an old white person like a young black guy- Obama is proof enough of that.
By the way, it’s my understanding Gore vetoed that idea in Florida by supporters of his like Jesse Jackson.
Paul L.
@Jay B.:
Because he proved Doug J to be a liar who takes people out of context?
Your party John.
Lesbian activists at Smith College riot, shut down Ryan Sorba speech on “The Born Gay Hoax” as police watch. See exclusive videos.
SpotWeld
B.O.B. /Slap Cheeks
Shut Up
That is all.
Now blow, wind
kay
@Elie:
I would feel a lot better if Harry Reid would either go away or stop talking. Completely. He can stay, but he can’t talk. I used to think he was ineffective, then I decided he was corrupt, now I believe he is actually on the other side.
SpotWeld
B.O.B. /Slap Cheeks
Shut Up
That is all.
Now blow, wind
malraux
Remind me again how not letting the nuclear option happen was a good thing? Or why senate democrats can’t go nuclear on their own?
Davis X. Machina
Those protesters are not Republicans, they’re prisoners dressed up like Polish soldiers, dressed up like Republicans.
The Bearded Blogger
@ Elie
Your comparison to 60s legislation is right, as well as your assestment that the only option is to pass reform
jcricket
The way to discredit Republicans is to pass legislation. There is no other way. If they don’t pass it, the lies survive, and Republicans will run on them. All the downside is with NOT acting
Abso-fricking-lutely. Republicans know this, too. This is why all the memos about Waterloo and “breaking” Obama. If Democrats pass this and nothing bad happens, Democrats can claim success (even if, as you said, nothing actually changes until 2012).
Sure, Republicans will claim credit, but not really, just like with Medicare Part D. They can’t credibly support expansion of government, at least not a full-throated defense, because their base won’t allow it.
So even when Republicans are on-board with regulations, increased government assistance, etc. they no longer really reap the benefits (at least not with their base). The exceptions are, I guess, the moderates (Snowe, Collins, etc.). Their support of government gets them independents and crossover Dems.
I always say breaking our shitty political cycle takes three things:
1) Democrats make it clear Republicans and their policies got us in this mess.
2) Democrats pass laws to fix this current mess and prevent mess from happening again
3) Democrats claim credit, and constantly remind people Republicans got us in a mess.
We rarely do #1 or #3, so Republicans get off scot-free, and then can appeal with the “free lunch” or “dual Santa Clauses” (no taxes + high services = nirvana!) to people once they’ve been out of office a while.
JM
OK, now that’s funny!
Glenn Beck is exactly the kind of whiny, fat, white jerk we want people to think of when they hear the word “conservative.” The more he screams and simpers, the worse they all look.
steve s
Poor stupid Erick joins the fray:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019397.php
eric k
#23
You gotta understand wingnut logic:
A) The government can’t run anything well.
B) Their Medicare works great
Therefore Medicare can’t be run by the government:-)
EthylEster
Isn’t Mr. Henke the name of the turd in the first South Park XMAS special?
Stooleo
I’m wondering, with the birthers and now the rank hypocrisy and anger of the health baggers (yes, I just coined that), will this become another Schiavo like moment for the GOP. Will some of the more moderate Repulicans rub their eyes in disbelief and decide that they have had enough?
South of I-10
Oh look, it’s the Two Minute Hate.
kay
@jcricket:
I think there’s an additional threat, although almost no one here agrees with me.
Republicans are flat-out terrified the economy is going to get better, and it is, of course, going to get better.
Democrats just have to pass this and sit tight until 2010, and take credit for each and every economic uptick.
We can play these town hall tapes, later, so that will be fun.
Kryptik
So…let me get this straight….
Henke criticizes the whole thing as politicians expecting to talk AT people and people shutting up and listening.
So…the solution is for the people to shout AT our politicians and expecting them to shut up and listen to their screaming demands of answers.
Wait, what?
Woodrowfan
Check out Sara’s post on Orcinus on “Fascism: Are We There Yet.”
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2…..e-yet.html
Woodrowfan
Check out Sara’s post on Orcinus on “Fascism: Are We There Yet.”
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2009/08/fascist-america-are-we-there-yet.html
Brick Oven Bill
Be careful what you ask for JM. I’ve been trying to figure out the obsession the left has with this guy, and I am pretty sure it is the clarity and purity of his message. Thus the marginalization. But it doesn’t work as Glenn is a better communicator, as he is more sure of himself, the result of a non-pampered life.
Judging by the reaction, I judge Glenn to be target #1, Sarah to be target #2, and Rush to be target #3.
Sarah is up there again because of her clear message, but lags Glenn because of her limitations, which all of us have, but hers are on her sleeve. Rush lags further as he is comfortably seated in the establishment.
But Glenn is dangerous. This is why the gym shooter’s race-based suicide was ‘right out of Glenn’s playbook’ per the Daily Kos. Which is the opposite of reality.
You should check out Glenn’s show and join one of the Meetup or Ning groups. The meetings are always pretty interesting. The shows are informative.
mistermix
If anyone’s keeping a list of Brick Oven Bill notable quotes, please add this one to the list.
The Populist
It’s sad. My reasoned side tells me this is all bull YET something feels as if the right have gotten the job done. I see interviews with many people showing up because they felt they had to and claim to be neither right wing or left.
I dunno. I consider myself pretty astute to bullshit yet I feel as if this nonsense is going to hurt all REASONABLE people and wingnuts will gain seats in 2010.
seehearBL
Adults discuss; children throw tantrums. If we don’t let our kids get away with this crap in our own homes, why would we let similar behavior dictate policy in our country?
The Populist
“If anyone’s keeping a list of Brick Oven Bill notable quotes, please add this one to the list.”
All the time yet he never responds to the counterpoints.
SpotWeld
B.O.B. / Slap Cheeks
You said “The shows are informative.”
If you are an example of one educated by such an experience, I shall prefer to maintain my distance.
Now, as has been said you many time before.. blow!
KG
@12: I listened to Limbaugh for about 20 minutes this morning, and that was pretty much his line of attack. And then he basically threatened the Blue Dogs, which, I suspect won’t go over well. His “reasoning” is that if a politician votes for the reform bill, they can be nothing but a “hard left socialist”, I shit you not. Oh, and also, according to Limbaugh, the Democratic Party is a highly marginalized party that makes up a shrinking portion of the population. Projection, much? It’s like going through the looking glass.
Scott
If the Congressional Democrats let health reform fail, they deserve to lose in the next elections, and they’ll have no one but themselves to blame. Of course, they will blame everyone else around them — seems like that’s all they’re really skilled at sometimes.
Not that things won’t get really bad after that — the GOP is now run, top to bottom, by psychopaths. The next time they get hold of the government, I really do believe they’d start putting political opponents in camps. What they complain about now is what they’re planning to do in the future…
malraux
@mistermix: I dunno, I like the idea that Palin has a clear message. Unless she’s actually speaking a different language, I don’t think she’s ever even had a clear sentence.
The Bearded Blogger
@ Brick Oven Bill
The only portion of your comment I agree with:
“Glenn is dangerous”
Other than that, and supposing you believe what you say, I can only say I am truly amazed at how one man can see an angry ignoramus with an unpleasant vibe who constantly contradicts himself; and another a mavericky clear eyed conservative.
SpotWeld
@The Populist
You said: “All the time yet he never responds to the counterpoints.”
He nothing but wind and rage. He has no substance and cannot be expected to act as anything more than useless sound and fury.
Legalize
I couldn’t watch much of that; the wild, rabid look in their eyes was more than I could take. It’s been a week. These people will be shooting congressmen by the end of the month.
Brick Oven Bill
I’ll chalk that one up under ‘Glenn Beck Sucks’ mistermix.
Note that Obama told us to not listen to Rush Limbaugh. Contrast with the article above which leads with Glenn Beck as the bad guy and then mentions Rush Limbaugh. This is because John Cole has better Situational Awareness than President Obama.
Here are 17 Glenn Beck Meetup groups to choose from around West Virginia. You can also look up Ning groups.
Don’t be scared. Go to a meeting. Check it out, see who is there, have a good time. Write it up as a Balloon Juice article.
Scott
@Woodrowfan: Thanks — it’s been a while since I checked in at Orcinus, since posting as gotten so rare. But they’re still incredibly important when they post about that.
SpotWeld
B.O.B. / Slap Cheeks
Your own cowardace is enough evidence that the Gleen Beck crowd is of similar disposition.
Go away
Polish the Guillotines
@Bubblegum Tate:
Go to 2:29 in the clip. The Moderator makes a comment about the pushing and shoving, and some woman screams “Well tell ACORN to stop it!”
Irony Abounds
@Brick Oven Bill:
Hey clown, riddle me this: in one breath Beck, who is a complete loon, states that Obama is a racist who hates whites. Just a few minutes later he states that he doesn’t think Obama dislikes white people. You think the guy is a model of clarity when he contradicts himself on a very important point within the space of minutes? I assume your posts praising Beck are very thickly veiled sarcasm. Otherwise you have to be written off as completely clueless.
JK
This was not a town hall meeting, this was a beer hall putsch.
Stop Medicare
I think she was wrong. It’s more likely that some Democrat union thugs were pushing and shoving.
Evinfuilt
I’m afraid the dem approach is fail, blame on the repubs and tell people to vote them out so next time they can actually do something (and they’ll keep repeating until they start losing with this strat.)
Its worked for them so far (since 2k.) I honestly believe the dems are failing on purpose, and don’t really care.
Brick Oven Bill
You can find your own local groups through the link as well SpotWeld. People will not be mean to you. Unless, of course, you are a twit.
In this case, perhaps they will wrap you in Saran Wrap and strap you to a tree for the duration of the meeting, but they will not hurt you. There are usually medical professionals among the participants, so you also have this going for you.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Polish the Guillotines:
I call spoof.
SpotWeld
B.O.B. / Slap Cheeks
Coward!
Why not actually dicuss things, rather than dodge and deflect.
You are ruled by your fears and come here in hopes of hiding them among bluster.
Now blow wind, I have no use for you
jcricket
@kay:
I keep saying it, but the only thing we really have to fear, is fear itself. If we ignore the Republicans and the Villagers, and do anything remotely close to “what’s right” (on EFCA, healthcare, stimulus funding, unemployment insurance extension, financial regulation, environmental laws, foreign policy, etc) – things will get better, and the public will be thankful (assuming we take my advice and take credit). It’s not always the case, but the public is solidly on our side (on issue after issue, and electorally, at least for now), so let’s not think otherwise.
There’s zero reason for us not to take “more than our share” of credit we pretty much deserve (you know Republicans would do the same, or more).
In other words, this is the Democrats game to lose, and we lose by giving in, compromising unnecessarily, buying the opposition’s framing and failing to take credit where it’s due.
Speaking of that – who in the Senate would make a better majority leader? I don’t need someone who’s particularly progressive (although that would be nice). Just someone who’s not afraid to call the Republicans on their BS, knock the heads around of the Blue Dogs and other weak-kneed Dems, etc.
Hold on there
@Scruffy McSnufflepuss:
Let’s not give the Dems too big of a pass eh? I’m sorry but crying “some mean people showed up and shouted at me!” doesn’t excuse piddling away a supermajority on infighting. The encouragement of this behavior by the GOP Leadership and etc. is despicable but if you think the Dems wouldn’t love for us to get so outraged by it that we don’t hold our own party accountable you’re fooling yourself. There are no excuses.
Also I guess none of these hooligans or the idiot bloggers getting self-righteous about them has heard of the heckler’s veto. We don’t have a right to use our free speech to drown out someone else’s.
Evinfuilt
Obviously the court jester, and probably most well-read senator there. Franken would do well to lead them, then again he makes sense so there’s no chance.
Brick Oven Bill
May you forever be surrounded by structural feminists SpotWeld.
SpotWeld
Slap Cheeks
And with that you make your last whimper
Shut up
That is all
Jay B.
@Paul L.:
How does one have anything to do with the other, except in your septically-infected way of thinking? He’s lying through his teeth, sure, but he made a point about something else on another subject.
It must suck to live in a complete void of honesty.
Brick Oven Bill
In contrast with Spotweld’s Structural Feminists, let us look at some in the Fredericksburg membership:
Bre
Laura
Heather
Joshua Norton
They should put video that in a time capsule so that when Martians come and shoot us all in the head, everyone will know why.
kay
@jcricket:
“Speaking of that – who in the Senate would make a better majority leader? I don’t need someone who’s particularly progressive (although that would be nice). Just someone who’s not afraid to call the Republicans on their BS, knock the heads around of the Blue Dogs and other weak-kneed Dems, etc.”
Chuck Schumer. He’s just not a fearful person. I know he’s beholden to Wall Street, and has warmonger tendencies, but I’m a realist, and at least he is what he is.
Harry Reid is having some sort of identity crisis while at work. I just don’t have any more patience with his pained religiosity, or whatever’s wrong with him. He’s both ineffectually angry and weirdly subservient. He’s too complicated. I don’t know where all this angst comes from, and I don’t care.
You’d know what you were getting with Schumer, and he can TALK. He actually enjoys the fight. His face is expressive and he leans forward when he’s arguing, and he’s quick as hell. He’s fully engaged.
geg6
@Brick Oven Bill:
Tom Tancredo is a racist fuck and, honestly, should I ever run into him anywhere, I’ll be hard pressed not to punch him in the neck just for shits and giggles.
Just sayin’.
Davis X. Machina
Here’s what bothers me. First the good news, Under all that noise, the Republicans can only preserve the status quo, and they cannot preserve the status quo alone. They don’t have the numbers. That’s the good news.
Here’s the bad news. To preserve the status quo they need the active cooperation of Blue Dogs Democrats — and they’ll get a bunch of them, but not enough of them.
Here’s the badder news.
Even with the Blue Dogs, that’s not enough. They also need a handful of ‘No bill but a perfect bill’ Democrats. And they’ll get them, too.
And that will save the status quo.
lamh31
This won’t end well
“Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms”
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php
And this from Greg Sargent:
“SEIU Gets Threatening Phone Call: “You’re Gonna Come Up Against The Second Amendment(AUDIO)”
Tim in SF
I wish those wingnuts who are paranoid over ACORN would volunteer for ACORN, infiltrate the group to see what “really” goes on in the organization.
jacy
At this point I would say almost anyone in the would make a better majority leader — although I know that is wrong, wrong, wrong. The more I pay attention, the more I feel like so many of them are either dishonest or dishonorable, on both sides of the aisle. I’m a Democrat. I agree with what Dem senators SAY they stand for, but I really see them doing precious little about it.
I always tell my kids to stand up to bullies, to do what’s right, even if there are some negative consequences for it. A dammit, if my four-year-old can tell a bigger kid to stop pushing a little a kid and take a fat lip for it, or if my nine-year old can tell his grandma (on his dad’s side), “My mom says people who use that kind of language to talk about other people are cowards,” then elected grown men and woman sure as hell take a few lumps and do what needs to be done.
I wish we had more senators that would stand for something, really take risks and stand for something, roll up their sleeves and do the hard work, damn the talking heads, and the sound bites, and the news cycle. But I guess that just makes me Frank Capra. And he’s dead.
Palooza
There is a bigger issue here. A very dangerous one. If this type of goonery and mob mentality is allowed to succeed, it will become a rightwing norm. More than ever healthcare reform needs to happen, if only to discourage this type of “political terrorism” in the future. God help us if this works.
area man
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
– Yeats, “The Second Coming”
Comparisons to the Civil Rights struggles are most apt and I agree that for the Dems (and our country’s health) the only way out of this is through. Pass the legislation and let these nutters crouch in their basement fastnesses waiting for the Obama Ninja Squads to come and euthanize them. When nothing manifests (except, of course, a more healthy and economically stable country) one would hope these spittle-flecked paranoiacs would have the decency to re-examine their positions and admit they were wrong.
I know, I know, I still believe in Santa Claus, too.
kay
@Palooza:
It’s not just that. Every corporate interest in the country are going to round up an angry mob every time anyone proposes regulation. Christ, the people on Wall Street are probably kicking themselves. Those insurance titans got there first.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
cat lady @17)
Does taking credit count as accepting responsibility.
http://www.the-election.com/i/bush-mission574x315.jpg
Otherwise, I got nuthin’.
BrYan
Those people were exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior. It’s too bad the Cambridge police force was not there to arrest them.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Woodrowfan #58. Thanks for posting that link since otherwise I probably would have missed it. I just posted a dissenting comment over there – I don’t think we’re “there yet..in the parking lot” to use Sara’s analogy, in fact I don’t think the highway even points in the necessary direction at the present time. But thanks anyway, it was a well written post and a pleasure to read.
JenJen
Just got an email from a friend that read, “Remember during the Pennsylvania Primary, how I had to just stop watching the news for awhile? I’m at that point again.”
MSNBC in general and Rachel Maddow in particular have been doing a good job of getting the information out there about who is behind the Teabagging, but it’s the desperate reach for phony equivalence that’s just killing me in most every other news outlet (including the 3.5 early MSNBC hours). “Liberals did this all the time! Whatever! Union thugs!”
Senior citizens clutching signs that read “Keep your government hands off my health care.” It’s just mind-boggling. In the Kos video that John posted, there’s a moment where a group of disgusted senior citizens turn to look at the mob cheering, and have to calm down one of their seatmates because honestly, I don’t think he had any idea what was going on, and started clapping along with them.
It broke my heart.
I feel sick to my stomach.
Zifnab
@area man:
It’s like all the sound and fury of the segregationists fighting for something degrees of magnitude less controversial. At least when the issue was letting black children attend white schools, you actually had black children attending white schools by the end of it. Now everyone is freaking out over government run hospitals and Obama slaughtering grandparents wholesale.
In twenty years, the racists could look back at segregation and say, “Yup! They were drinking from our water fountains!” Twenty years from now, what are people going to think?
geg6
@Brick Oven Bill:
WTF are you talking about with “structural feminists?” I’ve never heard of such a thing. There is, however, a school of feminist thought known as post-structural feminism. Or sometimes French feminism.
I’m guessing you get your vast knowledge about feminism from Rush.
Davis X. Machina
Corsets. Think corsets.
Michael
Sadly, there are no rogue cops who go heavy on the tasing when you need them.
BDeevDad
I’m at the point where I’d like to encourage a vote on a Ron Paul level bill to eliminate medicare just so these idiots can witness the level of their sheer stupidity because that is what health care providers want since they cannot charge medicare as much as private insurance companies. Give them a multiple choice bill. Medicare for anyone who wants to pay for it or else no one gets it.
TR
I challenge you to tell or show me anything that Glenn Beck has ever said that was knowingly incorrect or dishonest.
Knowingly? The man’s a fucking moron. I’m sure he believes all the bullshit that comes out of his mouth. The little-girl tears sure seem real enough.
Brick Oven Bill
I’m glad you asked geg6, but your guess is wrong. I learned about structural feminists not from Rush, but from President Obama.
“To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists.”
Barack would befriend white people in college, but only if you were a Marxist Professor or Structural Feminist. I have Googled Structural Feminism, and am still kind of fuzzy on the meaning, but they sound like they would not be very much fun.
Yours too will be filed under ‘Glenn Beck Sucks’ TR.
SpotWeld
B.O.B.
You’ve pretty much admitted now, you didn’t know what you were talking about…
SpotWeld
B.O.B.
You’ve pretty much admitted now, you didn’t know what you were talking about…
burnspbesq
@Paul L.:
If you mean to suggest that the commenters here don’t find the behavior shown in the video to which you linked reprehensible, that is so wrong as to be nearly defamatory. I think it’s fair to say that the commenters here are as intellectually rigorous and honest as any you will find in the blogoshpere. There is no tolerance for double standards here.
And we are incredibly tolerant. We put up with you, don’t we? QED.
Tony J
This is what the GOP has been reduced to.
After decades of playing a genuine political party on the TV, they’re so boring and unappealing to the viewing public that even the critics – who used to love everything they did, even when it was shit – are starting to question just how long they can justify providing them with glowing reviews when the audience share they’re catering for is so, how to put this delicately.. niche, and a little bit retro?
When you’re a washed-up actor known for portraying sleezy, untrustworthy blowhards, and your agent can only get you corporate gigs that barely pay the rent, and your younger, better-looking rival is doing all the serious roles you never got around to, it’s understandable that you might suggest, quite casually, and with no malicious intent, to some online groupie from your aging but still loyal fanbase, that it wouldn’t be – terrible – if she and some of her friends went and maybe, y’know did – something – to show their outrage. Get you back on the TV for a comment at least.
That’s where they’re at. Hustling people they used to laugh at, and waiting for the phone to ring.
Scott
File me under that, too, Bill. Maybe you should start compiling the Glenn Beck Enemies List. Then you’ll know who to target when Beck gives the signal.
steve s
On a scale of cleverness from zero to ten, with the average BJ comment being five, Brick Oven Bill comments being a one, and ‘concern troll’ being a negative three, Josh’s comment is about a 9.
mcd
I have to believe and I hope that when people see contorted faces, veins popping, eyes bulging — all in extreme rage — they’ll run the other way.
But who knows?
DMD
The commenter who felt this was approaching John Birch Society vs John Kennedy echoed my gut feelings as well. The discrediting campaigns are in full swing and the violence is ratcheting up. I fear for what the right may do. And like John, I used to identify with them.
Beauzeaux
Perhaps BOB selectively quotes Obama because he’s never actually read Dreams from My Father. He obviously doesn’t understand the idea behind the truncated quote he used, and even in full context I don’t think he’d get it because it doesn’t support his pre-fabricated conclusions.
debit
I just can’t believe the GOP not only let the leash off, but then cried, “Sic ’em!” The mob dog knows no master, and will bite anyone. Sure, right now the Democrats are getting the foam flecked spittle shower, but what happens next recess when a Republican decides to vote against some extreme immigration reform bill? Or fails, yet again, to outlaw abortion? Do they really think the mob will never turn on them?
Cat Lady
@area man:
1. I LOL at your name.
2. That poem might be the most evocative and prescient piece of literature I’ve ever read, to which I refer over and over, since I read it in junior high in a poem anthology book.
3. You’re right, going through is the only way. The madness must be confronted head on. I worry myself sick about violence, but if something deadly does happen, the blowback would probably be a determination to pass a real reform bill.
Senator Kennedy is my senator. I wonder if with what time he has left he’s busy exacting death bed promises from his colleagues. He has waited his whole life for this time, and I can’t believe he isn’t still doing everything in his power to get this done. He’s still a Kennedy, which is a force to be reckoned with.
geg6
@Brick Oven Bill:
He obviously misspoke and meant post-structural feminists because part of their intellectual and political thought is based on Marxist and post-Marxist theory, among other things such as linguistics, psychoanalysis, literary theory and race theory.
There is no such thing as structural feminists. There are socialist/Marxist feminists, third-world and post-colonial feminists, black and multiracial feminists, liberal feminists, radical feminists, libertarian feminists, post-modern feminists, and eco-feminists. But no structural ones.
Terri
Feminists= women aware enough to not give guys like BOB a second glance.
Anne Laurie
Human Canned Goods. I wonder if the Rethug/Big Insurance ratfvckers actually use this name, in their private communications, for the pathetic ‘low-information voters’ they’ve scared into showing up to scream abuse at This Week’s Enemy?
geg6
Sorry about forgetting about the dreaded “s” word in my rush to tell BOB he knows as much about feminism as he does about women. Grrrrr, I hate the things that trigger moderation around here. Oh, and sorry John.
Cat Lady
@Anne Laurie:
My irony meter just broke.
Anne Laurie
Dear gods, I miss the Edit button.
Area Man, how about a pro-healthcare-reform ad with William Shatner reading ‘Slouching Towards Bethlehem’ over this video? “Things fall apart, the center cannot hold / Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world… “
area man
@Cat Lady:
1) I shamelessly lifted it from an t-shirt someone bought me from The Onion online store ages ago, but thanks :)
2) Yeah, that poem has haunted me since I first read it, especially the line I quoted as it so often seems to be the case. One wonders “what rough beast” is slouching towards us now as a result of this madness.
3) I am ‘working’ on being more mindful of my emotional reactions to things and have long struggled to master my temper in the face of the sort of flagrant idiocy these ‘morans’ are demonstrating. I fear that I would be sore tested if confronted by someone shouting “keep gummint outta my Medicare!” I’d like to laugh them off but what they represent is so damned frightening and I also fear more violence is impending. Doubtless Glen Beck will be shocked, shocked I say!
I’m hoping that your great Sen. Kennedy is being kept in the bullpen for the late innings and will brought in to close this thing (please forgive the baseball metaphor, I know this is predominantly a football boosting blog :P ). There could be no more fitting end to such a noble career of public service than seeing ‘The Lion’ roar one more time and get this shit done.
area man
@Anne Laurie:
Heh, that would be awesome. I can hear the pregnant…pauses…now. Acting!
Cat Lady
@area man:
From your lips to the FSM’s noodly appendages.
JM
I’ve been trying to figure out the obsession the left has with this guy, and I am pretty sure it is the clarity and purity of his message.
Obama is a racist but isn’t a racist. Yeah, clarity. Just like, as you say, Sarah Palin.
Also.
chuck
BoB sure likes him some pie. I don’t know why you pick on him so much.
Best damn script I ever installed. Thanks to whoever recommended it to me.
kay
@geg6:
I don’t read his comments anymore. I don’t like men who dislike women, and I don’t engage with them, in any fashion. Call me crazy.
I could spot an adult who didn’t like children at twenty paces, too, and I successfully avoided them my whole childhood. It works.
Just transfer that, whatever it is. Gut? Because we’re grown-ups doesn’t mean we have to forget things we already might know, right?
Cat G
BOB #40.. “I challenge you to tell or show me anything that Glenn Beck has ever said that was knowingly incorrect or dishonest.”
Fact checking Beck is more than a full time job. He’s the classic case of “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” One of his classic idiocies was when he was on one of his “fascist” kicks. He conclusively “proved” that the country started going fascist in 1915 because of the design of the “Mercury” dime. You might want to do a little reading on fasces and Mussolini, etc. Come back when you’ve figured out the sequence of events.
Glenn Beck is a whiny, dim, unstable charlatan. His show is ALL FEAR, all the time. He’s a cancer on the body politic.
Makewi
@Scruffy McSnufflepuss:
The Democrats don’t need even 1 GOP vote to pass this. You are deluding yourself if you think the coming failure of this monstrosity has anything to do with the GOP. They do, however, make a convenient boogeyman to trot out in place of discussing the real issues.
The Populist
“I’m at the point where I’d like to encourage a vote on a Ron Paul level bill to eliminate medicare just so these idiots can witness the level of their sheer stupidity because that is what health care providers want since they cannot charge medicare as much as private insurance companies.”
I second that. I am watching the local station here in LA. this morning and they are a Fox affiliate. They keep running this clip with some old freak with his son in a wheel chair SCREAMING at some Dem Rep (Can’t remember who but I’d know his name if you told me) to arrest him.
Now I heard on Thom Hartmann’s show that another Dem congressman listened to the jeers then asked the roomful of people who is against this bill. The whole room raised their hands. Then they are asked who has medicare. Half the room raised their hands and the Rep told them that is a form of socialized medicine!
IF I find out who did that, I’ll post it.
The Populist
“The Democrats don’t need even 1 GOP vote to pass this. You are deluding yourself if you think the coming failure of this monstrosity has anything to do with the GOP. They do, however, make a convenient boogeyman to trot out in place of discussing the real issues.”
Like the Dems are the only political group to do such a thing…please. The right doesn’t EXIST without the evil liberal boogeyman.
Independents like me laugh at that.
The Populist
“Glenn Beck is a whiny, dim, unstable charlatan. His show is ALL FEAR, all the time. He’s a cancer on the body politic.”
Glenn Beck is a failed comedian. His career has seen a resurgence since his show took off.
J.D. Rhoades
@Brick Oven Bill:
Wingnut logic: it’s okay for winguts to do something because some liberal somewhere did it. But it’s still the Worst Thing EVER that the liberal did it.
Shouting people down is wrong, period. Whether it’s done to Tancredo or to a Dem. Rep. at a Town Hall.
Trinity
@area man: From your keyboard to the FSM’s noodly appendages! May The Lion roar again.
drc
Maybe every representative should have a pastor, rabbi, imam, etc. read an invocation asking for a calm discussion of the facts or maybe read statements about discourse and rational behavior from our founding fathers. I am sure it won’t work but it should be tried
Makewi
@The Populist:
You are missing the point, perhaps on purpose. The GOP is irrelevant to the passage of health care reform. They aren’t needed. So how could they be at fault if it fails?
latts
@kay:
I didn’t mind Harry Reid as Minority Leader so much; while he sucks at the media thing, he often had a parliamentary trick or two up his sleeve to throw at the GOP. But to lead a 60-vote caucus… yeah, he’s a lousy choice.
I kinda thought John Kerry, pompous as he can be, should have been made Majority Leader after 2004. Democrats treat their unsuccessful nominees like shit, and I think it weakens the party in the long run to have familiar politicians that many millions basically locked in the attic post-election. Kerry knew procedure very well, and losing presidential elections historically (and paradoxically) frees Democratic pols up to be better leaders.
Comrade Darkness
@jcricket: Reminds me of yelling at my teevee countless times in the Clinton era. You are getting labelled a far lefty, and you will no matter how mindnumbingingly moderate you are, so why doing you f*cking do something worthwhile? It won’t change the attack rhetoric.
Redshirt
OT: Over my many years of Internet lurking, I have “met” several conservative posters who behave just like Bob here. Perhaps they are all the same person, perhaps they’re following a script, or perhaps there’s something about the type of person who would visit a place where he is routinely mocked and ridiculed — for good reason.
The Bob’s of the internet display the following tendencies:
1. They are rarely on topic — they have their own topics they want to “discuss”.
2. They don’t want to discuss. They will rarely engage other posters, and if they do, it’s usually to troll.
3. They will present themselves as polite, but of course the content of their postings are frequently barbaric.
4. They don’t care what you say about them. In fact, like with all trolls, they are here to upset you. In fact, the notoriety and infamy becomes important to them, personally.
5. They always have women issues.
So there’s your handy-dandy guide to BOB and other trolls like him. He’s just one type of troll of course, so stay sharp!
Zifnab
@latts:
No one likes a loser. Bob Dole wasn’t exactly revered after ’96. Gerald Ford kinda drifted off into obscurity after ’76. Everyone hated GWB by the end of ’92. McCain/Palin is something of an anomaly, as they continue to get air time after their defeat. I think that has more to do with a complete lack of GOP leadership (outside of talk radio / FOX News) than out of any of their personal merits.
latts
@Zifnab:
No one likes a loser. Bob Dole wasn’t exactly revered after ‘96. Gerald Ford kinda drifted off into obscurity after ‘76. Everyone hated GWB by the end of ‘92.
True, but given that the GOP approaches politics as the use of raw power and Democrats approach it as governing by being correct on the merits, shunning our candidates tends to weaken our policy arguments as well as our political ones.
handy
BOB is a performance artist, easily the most entertaining poster on these here intarwebs. His brand of crazy is sublime, you gotta appreciate it.
bago
@Brick Oven Bill: The BoB ideal form of government involves Sully Sullenberger favoriting tweets. Got it.
jcricket
@Comrade Darkness: Yeah, what you said.
I don’t get the desire to moderate when it gets you nothing. Sure, you don’t have to go all Bernie Sanders on the public, but just stick to your guns, tell people you tried to work with the other side but they are crazy (provide the video, it’s obvious), and pass what you want.
Even in the short run if that’s hard, and you lose a few news cycles, you win the longer-term war. In fact, it’ll further enrage the righties and drive the moderates out of the party, which will likely increase Democrat representation in Congress down the road (b/c there are far more left/center folks than right-wingers).
josephdietrich
I suppose I know the answer to this, but why is it that when liberal crazies disrupt things like this they get tazed, but when wingnuts do it nothing happens to them?
Chris Johnson
You don’t get it. You’re not understanding what these people are.
The mob doesn’t have POLICIES to offend. A master is EXACTLY what it has. That’s a leading personality, like Glenn Beck or Rush, and they’re not listening to the leader’s policies and passing judgement, they are there to resonate to the leader’s emotional tone.
You’re correct that they’ll attack anyone, but not on the grounds of policies. They will attack what they are told to attack. At the risk of Godwinating, haven’t we seen this shit before?
Be shocked on moral grounds if you like, but the people siccing the mob on targets are NOT subject to be attacked in turn on policy grounds. Don’t you understand all they have to do is have Glenn Beck claim red-headed people with names starting with “J” are social1st terrorists plotting to kill Palin’s baby and the mob will bay happily and charge off to kick ass once more?
POLICY DOES NOT MATTER.
This is essentially a police problem, you could also think of it as a racketeering thing with conspiracy to have crimes committed. It is NOT a political movement at this point, or a thing to be resolved through negotiations of policy.
If at this point you went all Neville Chamberlain and appeased the rightwingers with all the policy you could think of, they would just have to make something up to riot about. The details are no longer important. Might as well pass single-payer, we shall face the mob anyhow and I for one would like there to be social1st health care to patch me up after the mob kicks my ass in for being NOT one of them…
Anne Laurie
Bingo. Obama held out the “bipartisanship” olive branch, and pulled back a spittle-flecked chewed stub. So let justice be done, though the fReichtards/Talibangelicals/Robber-Barons tremble!