When someone talks back to a cop in his own house, that’s disorderly conduct.
When people make death threats and start fights in public, that’s exercising their First Amendment rights.
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Punchy
Lemmie fix that for ya:
There ya go. You betcha!
GambitRF
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/labor/seiu-gets-threatening-phone-call-youre-gonna-come-up-against-the-second-amendment/
Stay classy, protesters
El Cid
Tucson teabaggers angry that a Congressmember whose office was backing a showing of “Mr Smith Goes to Washington” in an amphitheater outdoor film event with rotating week-by-week sponsorship didn’t show up at the film so that they could yell at her, most annoyingly because she was never scheduled to show up there in the 1st place and they were all dejected that they couldn’t bark and babble their nonsense about ‘takin’ their country back’ from those danged elected people, because, hey, who wanted to see the movie anyway?
Republican victory in 2010 is thus assured. I am terrified with this massive, awesome, finely hones machine of a movement they are building.
Awesom0
@DougJ
Haha…I just posted almost the exact same comment in Ambinder’s blog a few hours ago.
pharniel
i’m just wondering how long before they get out of hand and injure a cop.
because if they injure a congress kritter, well, the (d) at teh end of the name means they had it coming…but if they get on the wrong side of the blue wall, watch out.
Mike S
When a group holds a video contest and some no one posts one comparing Bush to Hitler, it’s proof that Democrats hate America.
When numerous elected Republicans compare Obama to Hitler, chirp chirp.
GReynoldsCT00
glad you’re finally catching on!
angulimala
No shit. Check this out
The man is verbally belligerent in a public place and even yells “Arrest Me!!!” at the cops ….. and was not arrested.
He’s white though, so I guess it makes sense.
JK
OT – Must Reads
Reactions to Rush Limbaugh’s Obama/Hitler comparison by Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/07/limbaugh/index.html
Right Wing Whackjob uses Anne Frank Photograph to portray the Obama administration as Nazis
Achtung! Do you know this girl? Report her to the White House
http://perfunction.typepad.com/perfunction/2009/08/subject-fishy-neighbors-possibly-insurance-execs.html
h/t James Wolcott http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2009/08/that-the-blog-right-revels.html
AP Omits George Sodini’s Obama References
http://www.eandppub.com/2009/08/ap-omits-killers-obama-references.html
h/t Joan Walsh
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/politics/2009/08/07/brownshirts/index.html
freelancer
Read my mind.
El Tiburon
Punchy – nice, very nice.
Also, DougJ, logic and sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
Michael
I think that the old guy with the CP son needs to have every dime of sonny’s undoubted disability payments suspended.
It is socialism, after all, and I hate having to burden that family with a bunch of socialism I pay for.
Freedom and “the best health care in the world” y’know…..
General Winfield Stuck
Wingnuts have discarded all rational thought and are going long. They are defending the indefensible in hopes the general electorate will give them one last shot for being bold and loud and pretty convincing liars.
I can hardly read the right blogs without wondering what comes next for a group of people who no longer care about truth or consequences. They are crossing The Rubicon on rubber duckies with no paddle, and not a political pot to piss in.
mai naem
They just can’t handle that there’s a tall scary black muslim kenyan man as POTUS. Also too, they hate the scary tall white educated southern democrat man who came back from North Korea with two asian women who weren’t subservient mail order brides.
I personally am still getting over being totally humiliated by Bill Clinton. I finally managed to step outside my home today to face this humiliation.
Zifnab
Can we start handing out badges and tasers to our elected officials?
linda
hmmmmmm….. deeper thought:
and just what distinct difference is there between the two parties of the examples provided….
hmmmmmm……
freelancer
wordpress keeps NOM NOM-ing my fucking comments.
That site move can’t happen fast enough
Zifnab
@angulimala: So, to answer the question, “Would Skip Williams have been arrested in front of his own home while yelling at a cop?” the answer remains, “Maybe” but with the caveat, “Was he a fan of Glenn Beck?”
Zifnab
Grr.. “arrested in front of his own home while yelling at a cop if he was white?”
Damn you lack of edit button.
ericvsthem
@angulimala: You talk as if someone was acting stupidly.
Ash
Seriously though, it is mentally possible to even imagine what would have to happen for us to reach Peak Wingnut? Or is it like one of those things where our brains melt when we think about what’s at the end of the universe?
srv
Wow, even the New York Times won’t keep Ben Stein:
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/08/07/ben-stein-finally-expelled-from-ny-times/
Time for beer.
sparky
@General Winfield Stuck: yeah, but it’s worked for them before. i can’t blame them for trying even though it makes me kinda nauseous to see it in action.
will moronia collapse in on itself, and take everyone with it, like a black hole, or will it expand, cool, and collapse into nothingness? i like to think that it’s just because it’s august, but the US does seem to have an unparalleled font of stupid so who knows.
Malron
Some female headcase just left a voicemail threat to the SEIU of St. Louis. Also, some dipshit has been leaving Twitter messages about people coming strapped to these protests:
http://wonkette.com/410382/actual-war-to-happen-in-st-louis-tomorrow#more-410382
geg6
And now, Greg Sargent has audio of a death threat phoned into the SEIU. Brian Beutler has the twits of an anti-health care reform protester named Scott Oskay telling people to bring their guns to the town halls, and Limpbaugh has been giving out SEIU’s address to encourage people to…well, he says to “participate in a press conference and non-violent protest” at the headquarters on Saturday.
Trinity
@geg6: What the hell are they protesting at SEIU??
Max
Sully had a comment from a Canadian reader up a couple days ago….
Quote – I was struck by two different views of America yesterday. On the one hand the Town Hall protesters who seemed elderly,white,scared and come across as unwilling to listen, and on the other hand the two freed journalists who seemed young,with ethnically diverse families and friends, and came across as generous and open minded.
The first group has become emblematic of the Republican party. The second group were surrounded by Democrats. Is there any doubt which party is winning the battle for the future? – End quote
I thought this was a great observation.
P.S. I have no idea how to do blockquotes, so excuse the old school.
Demo Woman
Not a deep thought! Mark Halperin is a fucking asshole
He has ten comments about the mobs and this is number three
linda
@Mike S:
don;’t forget what they did to dick durbin for his very right on, but unfortunately timed comment re the treatment of prisoners at gitmo — there was a huuuuge media pile-on and he was forced to retract and apologize on the senate floor for his comment. i still recall how lou dobbs went after his ass.
Jess
Well, you do have to hand it to the wingnuts for fighting for their idiotic beliefs even as they go down to humiliating defeat. I wish liberals could be as persistent in supporting their own positions. I guess there’s a direct relationship between stupidity and stubbornness…must all be a part of the same denial mechanism.
freelancer
@max
Use the html tags instead of brackets and do it like this [blockquote]BLAHBLAHBLAHBLABLAH[/blockquote]
The Populist
I’ve made up my mind. When I talk to any older person I will now say I am against Medicare. After all, socialism is bad for America right?
Time to repeal Medicare. Seeing how evil socialism is, then let them fend for themselves and use up all their savings on expensive insurance that MAY not be there for them when they most need it (IF they can get any insurance to begin with).
Viva le free market!
General Winfield Stuck
@Demo Woman:
I could not help myself and laughed out loud. The serendipity is a work of accidental art.
JK
@Demo Woman:
More proof that Mark Halperin is a world class asshole
During the presidential campaign, Halperin went on radio and said that John Edwards was reluctant to endorse Obama because he thought Obama was a pussy.
h/t http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/times-halperin-apologizes_n_86504.html
Halperin said at a USC post-election panel that the media’s coverage of the election was “the most disgusting failure of people in our business since the Iraq war. It was extreme bias, extreme pro-Obama coverage.”
h/t http://www.wilshireandwashington.com/2008/11/the-50-cent-eff.html
The Populist
@Max:
I hope you are right. It’s time to push aside the old thinking and embrace a new type of thought and tolerance.
We all love this country (yes, even the freaks) but the big difference is that the rational thinkers see where we are going while the ones stuck in the past are holding us back while China kicks our collective economic asses.
geg6
@Trinity:
They say that the SEIU is nothing but a bunch of thugs who are going to the events to beat up teabaggers. And some black guy got beat up at the MO townhall and it was SEIU thugs who did it and who got arrested for it. I don’t know the reality of that particular situation, but I have my doubts that the facts are exactly as Rush described. Anyway, I guess the idea is to have the SEIU arrested and thrown into jail for assault or something.
The Populist
“I don’t know the reality of that particular situation, but I have my doubts that the facts are exactly as Rush described.”
No offense Geg, but anything Rush says is tainted with an agenda. While I am not in disbelief that the unions are at the townhalls to provide a counterbalance, I do doubt they are causing any problems. If Rush says it’s the unions, I have to say he’s covering for the loudmouths who cry about socialism yet have no respect for the Democratic process which means LET PEOPLE TALK.
steve s
Let’s not forget, we’re early into August. This stuff could get much more nutty and violent. Stormfront is on the side of the birthers, maybe they’ll show up and kick it up a notch.
different church-lady
Great catch. The bumper sticker version should be: “Henry Louis Gates got arrested for less.”
The Populist
Steve,
I fear that when somebody or a group of folks is finally hurt or we see somebody die over this the ramifications will be ugly.
El Cid
Maybe we should get a a whole bunch of people to show up to one of these events dressed as cavemen and yell wordlessly and wave around papier mache clubs and speak in bizarro speak of our fear of the Sun and of the big rocks which move on wheels and whatnot.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
They’re doing this because it’s worked like a charm up till now. It started in 1988, with the Lee Atwater strategy.
Then, Bill Clinton got elected by less than 50% of the vote. This made him obviously illegitimate (Lincoln, Wilson, Nixon ’68, Reagan ’80? Shut up, that’s why!) This drove them to a new level of hysteria, and it worked. They blocked health-care reform, and impeached Clinton.
They intimidated election workers into not counting the votes, and as a result, they’ve had 8 years all their own way. That’s a law of nature now. Then, out of the blue, suddenly Willie Horton got elected president! OMFG!! They have entered new realms of insane anger never before seen. But it’ll work, they think, just like it’s always worked before.
Personally, I think the public’s patience with this kind of crap has run out, but we’ll see. If it hasn’t, I’m leaving the country.
Zifnab
@steve s: Man, wouldn’t that just be the nuts. A bunch of KKK’ers marching in front of some Congressman’s office, calling Obama a Nazi, and hanging the guy’s image in effigy from a tree.
I mean, the Stormfronters do at least tend to be a little more up front about their racism. The current movement conservatives seem to prefer draping themselves in “I have a dream” rhetoric while they burn crosses on people’s lawns. It would be a bit refreshing to see more outright racists and bigots and less concern trolling and faux-martyrdom.
Alan
@JK: Thanks JK. The Greenwald article prompted me to do a quick search to see what kind of Healthcare Israel has. According to Limbaugh, it’s Nazi healthcare. Who knew?
I wonder what the heck Rush meant about “Jewish Capitalism?” We know the Nazis hated everything Jewish. But I didn’t know they had a distinct type of capitalism. But I guess Rush would know.
Tonybrown74
Someone is going to die at one of these town halls. I wonder what republicans will do then?
Awesom0
In the meantime, enjoy this latest piece of idiocy from Ambinder over at the Atlantic. It’s really a doozy…
JK
@Alan: You’re welcome.
Peggy Noonan: It’s all Obama’s fault
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html
The Moar You Know
@The Populist: Agreed. My prediction it will be some dumbfuck Gooper who, while taking some bad advice and showing up to one of these events strapped, decides to get into it with the cops. With not one trace of irony, he will be described as a “martyr” for the cause.
And it really WILL be great news for John McCain, becuase Dems will get the blame.
Awesom0
Damned non-working blockquotes and lack of preview button!!!!
Here is Ambinder’s eclair stained wisdom:
There’s lots of lamenting on the left about all the teabaggers showing up and town hall meetings on health care being held by returning members. The right’s all atwitter about organized labor and the left sending people to these meetings. I’m note sure any of it is really bad. Obviously, death threats, demonization and the like are not good for civil discourse. No one gains from shouting. In a perfect world each town meeting would be a civilized discussion of the merits of different approaches to health care. But that’s not the world we live in. The more likely alternative is no interest, sparsely attended meetings or just one side showing up.
At least you can say there’s some civic engagement going on. Yes, a lot of it is based on fear mongering and stoked emotions. Rush Limbaugh’s rant yesterday comparing the “Democrat party” to Hitler was among the more absurd things ever spoken. But the enemy of legislation is apathy and we’re not in an apathetic season. There’s real passion over this issue, even if a lot of it is based on willful ignorance.
The health care debate still has a long way to play out. We’ll be talking about it all fall and the plans being talked about will change and change again. In the meantime, isn’t it better that people are engaged in the August heat than not at all.
Shinobi
Any other WoW players immediately think of the wow definition of “MoB” whenever they hear it? People are complaining about mobs and I’m thinking, why don’t they just get their Tauren to ROFLStomp them? MORE DOTS!
And then I hate myself for being such a geek.
JGabriel
geg6:
Or maybe the idea is to have a bloodbath.
It’s possible, probable even, that the wingers think the SEIU, and labor in general, are a bunch of lefty pussies who will buckle under when threatened with guns, because that’s what they’ve been told for the past four decades.
If that’s what the wingers believe, they’re likely to be in for quite a shock.
On the other hand, it’s just as possible that someone remembers the real history of labor and wants to provoke violence.
The labor movement was forged under armed attacks from literal corporate mercenaries. They aren’t the most pacifist members of the left, they know how to fight back, and they do fight back.
Sending out Twitters to the wingnuts that they should carry guns to their protests and threatening the SEIU that ” you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment” will most likely lead to various members of labor packing too.
So maybe the right wants a bloodbath.
.
The Populist
“During the town hall, one conservative activist turns to his fellow attendees and asks them to raise their hands if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Almost all the hands shot up. Rep Green quickly turned the question on the audience and asked, “How many of you have Medicare?” Nearly half the attendees raised their hands, failing to note the irony.”
Found it…do a search for Rep Gene Green (D-TX).
steve s
Oh it seems certain to me that people will get hurt. Right now, we’re only talking about a few hundred idiots making ruckus in public, but events lately have me wondering if this is going to start a real Fascist movement in this country. I live in the deep south and there’s a significant fraction of people here who sincerely believe that an illegitimate government run by an illegal darkie immigrant is trying to force us into communism and incinerate* our grandparents. I expect it won’t really go anywhere, but who knows.
* that’s the exact word I heard two weekends ago. The Obama government was going to run out of money and send “us old people to the incineration rooms.”
The Populist
My new hero:
“Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC) faced a “rowdy” crowd at a town hall forum on health care yesterday. Inglis said that he was against the health care policies being advocated by the Obama administration and “won applause for advocating medical liability reform.” However, the crowd revolted when Inglis told people to “turn the TV off” and stop listening to Glenn Beck.”
http://thinkprogress.org/
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
@JGabriel: Yea, I don’t get that. Do they think none of us have firearms? Many of us do, in fact, own firearms. Some us own many of them. I don’t know what the thinking is but it is very dangerous indeed.
What I’m most worried about is someone renting another goddamned Ryder van because they are pissed at the gummint.
steve s
hmmm. warning to others–asterisks will not always do here, what you thought they would do here.
The Populist
Now when I say hero I mean a Republican than calls out Glenn Beck. I disagree on his health care stance EXCEPT that I feel some tort reform would be a fair compromise IF the GOP understood how to negotiate like men instead of spoiled babies.
El Cid
Won’t a movement of really frightened old people just get tired? (Ducks.)
Wordpress
@freelancer: I hunger!
The Populist
“So maybe the right wants a bloodbath.”
Most likely so. When the battle starts coming to their neatly trimmed little neighborhoods or their kids are at risk, it will be interesting to see who backs down.
I am not advocating it…just saying that if the GOP wants a fight they may get one and it won’t be pretty.
America IS being changed but not by lefties like the congress and Obama. It’s being changed by manipulative power interests who want monopolies and to see the middle class die and shrivel away.
THAT is fact. Take away my right to live my life my way and make it so I can’t make money and I promise you that the GOP will have more grass roots smart asses to deal with.
matoko_chan
Well….I think the extreme tv coverage of the New GOP Demographic (people you could meet at a Klan rally) is simply going to kill off the party.
I was appalled and repulsed by the ginormously fat angry unattractive old white people screaming and having public psychotic breakdowns.
The amount of bald heads with comb-overs was just stunning, and i had nightmares over the beer bellies straining over beltbuckles…what if all the belts snapped at once? Would the news anchors drown in a tide of billowing adipose tissue?
I mean, srsly, errbody wants to go to Cooltown.
It is gobsmakingly obvious that the conservative express doesn’t go there.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
@El Cid: Face it, they are older and they have more insurance.
Chris Johnson
The person linked to recently who said “this is it, this is a fascist movement about to blossom” had it absolutely right.
The right does want a bloodbath, for values of ‘the right’ equalling: the violent foot soldier types, and the Republicans IN THE GOVERNMENT who want to regain power.
Period.
The key point there is, regain power. We can handle a civil war or domestic terrorism. Other countries have seen that as well, for instance for religious reasons.
What we won’t survive is the existing Republicans regaining power at the point of widespread violence and hysteria stoked by right-wing aligned business and corporate interests.
What we won’t survive is “We reconquer this our country! Now on to Iran, no, wait, China!”
I would say keep a very close eye on the corporate and business centers of power, as much as possible- watch for moves that will tend to concentrate information and bring it under closer control- and watch for Republicans already in the government to be pushing a ‘we are actually a big majority, both Obama and his liberals are illegitimate’ line.
To my mind, being boring and civilized is very much the correct move here. Try to heal the country’s rifts without making concessions ideologically to the rightwingers. There are things to be done as far as healing the sick, feeding people, encouraging simple economic growth in the terms of local jobs.
We do NOT want to make steps towards fascism even if they would be convenient, we do not want to make steps towards still further corporate power and influence even if it would prop up stock market indicators. It’s time to be boring and responsible- and keep all the excesses the Right is up to, in memory and awareness.
Shinobi
Hey Matoko,
Hating people because their fat and or old is still a form of prejudice, and it’s pretty fucked up. You never know, you might find otu that there are also fat and or old people who agree with YOU.
You hardly need to start ranting about adipose tissue when the things coming out of their mouths are so obviously drivel.
Perry Como
SoC every teabagger and wait for lulz.
MikeJ
Lefties? Obama is a moderate right winger, Dems in congress run the gamut from right wing extremist to moderate left.
JGabriel
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America:
Exactly. I don’t get it either, unless the wingnuts actually want to get shot.
Of all the various factions in the coalitions that comprise the left, union members are traditionally the most likely to possess arms. A fair number are very pro-gun, whether as hunters from rural areas or as suburbanites and urbanites who keep them for self-defense (which I personally think is a crap idea in the cities, but whatever).
.
General Winfield Stuck
@JGabriel:
This notion that has been pounded into their tiny brains like you say and is the most dangerous of all, imo. They really believe it, and I can’t help thinking it gives them false idea they can push things as far as they want, without resistance.
Further, that the military and civilian police forces would side with them, if it came down to it. Who knows, maybe they’re right. We are not near that point yet, at least I’d like to think so, but it is fire they are playing with, and they don’t seem to be in the mood to be convinced otherwise. The comments in what are considered main stream right blogs are awash in talk calling for open rebellion and gunplay. And getting more so, by the day. Seems like they’re aiming for something to happen to provide the excuse for going farther yet.
And I’m wondering if I’m just getting paranoid, or are they aiming to go Red Dawn. Hope it’s the former.
demkat620
@JK: Dear Peggy,
I savor your sweet, sweet tears of fear.
Savor.
matoko_chan
Shinobi, I am saying that it is bad advertising for the GOP.
It is why beer companies don’t have fat ugly old people sell beer.
Seebach
My girlfriend’s mother is involved in these tea parties now. We have no idea what to do, at all.
freelancer
Easy, you now Automatically WIN every argument you ever get into with your gf by default.
BerkeleyMom
My comment from Americablog a few days ago
BerkeleyMom 3 days ago
So the lesson here is:
Sass a police officer in your own home = handcuffed, arrested and charged with disorderly conduct
Organize to disrupt, intimidate, threaten and shout down voters trying to communicate with their elected officials = freedom, democracy in action.
rs
Someone into guerilla theater could have some fun with this. Show up at the townhalls made up as one of the greatest generation and try to get the crowd to join in a good old-fashioned Medicare card burning to protest government health care.
Jay B.
Funny thread and sentiment coming after the shameful display in the thread below. Evidently cops and laws in NORTH KOREA are more trustworthy than American ones to some of the same people here. Total cognitive dissonance.
To paraphrase the “logic:” of the hardassess who support North Korean “justice” against truth seekers, Gates should have known better than to yell at a cop, regardless of what happened or where he was. Because authority is always right and if it’s a FUCKING LAW, than it’s right.
Blue Raven
@Perry Como:
I am so damn glad I have a WoW-playing GF. I would have no idea what you were talking about elsewise. Including the gamer significance to “teabagger.”
Tonal Crow
I am awed by the rhetorical techniques at work here. Someone has persuaded legions of wingnuts to demonize a plan that would substantially improve most of their lives, merely because it appears to violate some ideology that the wingnuts don’t even understand.
Whoever’s behind this is a genius, on par with the guy in Iranian intelligence who manipulated Bush into deposing Saddam.
It’s great fun to mock the wingnut drones, but we’d best buckle down and analyze the subtext here, or we’re likely to see even more Democratic capitulation, followed by losses in 2010 and 2012.
neal peart
IOKIYAR. Also.
Anne Laurie
Exactamundo! Unfortunately, the desperate Luzer tribes they’ve unleashed are not as easy to control as the Brooks Brothers rioters. A bunch of half-smart, miseducated, low-information consumerists primed by talk radio bigots to fear any and every other human being, especially the ones who can be labelled as Not Like Us — fortunately, the big difference between Rwanda and Tampa is that the ReThug kleptocracy hasn’t succeeded in totally bankrupting our republic, for all their efforts over the last 30+ years.
There will be more ugly incidents, probably a few injuries, certainly enough stupidity to keep law enforcement busy. But just as New Orleans didn’t descend into Mad Max territory after Katrina — despite Jonah Goldberg’s fondest fap-fantasies — the vast majority of Americans still have enough of a stake that they’re not going to risk their Social Security benefits and senior housing co-op covenants just to give Glenn Beck another night’s talking point.
Sigh Clone
This comment forces me to say something I’ve known for a while: this is my favorite blog on earth. The authors are honest about what they know, how they feel, everything, which is rare. We’ve also got the fact that there are so many gem posts and this is certainly one of them. Such a great point made in so few words. Thanks to John for getting this together, and for the rest of the bloggers, all of whom make such poignant comments.
Craig
@Punchy:
Police are given the right to make an arrest based on their own discretion. That would be fine if the public gave them that right. But they didn’t. The government did. And as government henchmen they will never be respected.
Elected officials only job should be to ensure those under them are doing whatever the public tells them to do. Or they should be removed. It does not matter if the official agrees with the public. It does not matter what they believe is right or wrong because the public decides what is right and wrong. Period. Government officials opinions are irrelevant and insignificant.
The Constitution of the United States of America begins with “We the people”. Not we the government.
Yes people are stupid and a country run by “the people” may fall, and fall fast. But the same stupid people are voting politicians into office. How stupid is that?
Now excuse me while I push my riding lawnmower around the yard. I need to hurry. I plan on stopping by the store to purchase CB radios to replace our cell phones on the way to my third job. My teenage manager will have a fit if I am late. It takes me much longer to get their on my bicycle. I had to sell the car to pay for my daughters last doctors visit. It was just a routine check-up so nothing to worry about.
Kevin
What is this “gotcha” with Medicare? The fact that people have Medicare obviates any concern they have about the Obama healthcare plan? I try to monitor some of these “progressive” sites to understand the thinking, but all I ever see is a miasma of non sequitors and conspiracy theories.
Medicare is the previous mistake that the federal government made; it massively distorted the market – preventing any free market alternative from performing (see “predatory pricing” under the theory of monopolies) – and is now insolvent.
Healthcare is an individual activity – it is not a collective activity (like procuring and using aircraft carriers). The federal government has no legitimate role in healthcare. The “nation” does not spend money on healthcare, people do.
I would ask any “progressive” contributor to this site: Do you agree with the 10th Ammendment to the Constitution, or should we repeal it. Here it is:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Catsy
@Chris Johnson:
Yes to this. Yes a thousand times.
Dave Neiwert has been chronicling this for a long time. I hate to make the obvious comparison, but this is the sort of disregard for civil order, intimidation in the service of a political movement, that leads to pogroms and worse. I firmly believe that we have the unenviable privilege of witnessing the transition of a large chunk of the Republican Party into a fascist movement.
There are differences. This time the bigotry is directed not at the Juden, but at the schvartzers. And the movement–thankfully!–lacks a charismatic leader with popular appeal, someone to rally around instead of being aimlessly malignant.
But make no mistake, the rot at the core is the same. We’re lucky that most of the country seems to be getting a good look at just how crazy the Republican base has gotten, and have increasingly and overwhelmingly repudiated that craziness at the ballot box. That needs to continue.
It’s for that reason that I’m torn on the issue of the teabagger terrorism. On the one hand–hyperbole aside–it really is getting awfully close to (and in a few cases becoming) domestic terrorism, and it needs to be stopped.
On the other hand, arresting the people who cross the line between free speech and disorderly conduct will give the movement martyrs, and may push some of the crazies who are on the edge over the line into violent action. And with them putting the crazy on display for all the world, most sane Americans are apalled at what they see.
On the gripping hand, I don’t see any fundamental conflict between locking up those who legitimately cross the line into violence, while shining the light of publicity on them and their fellow travelers. Record everything. Youtube that shit, get it on the nightly news that Ward Cleaver watches with his family over dinner. Make them own their crazies. Drape them around the neck of the GOP like an albatross.
Kevin
Unbelievable. You see old ladies at a town hall meeting as fascism? How about an administration that:
Takes over a large part of the auto industry (aka ” the means of production”)
Sets up an e-mail site to turn in dissenters against the government’s plan
Has a state-controlled Organizing for America group to support it
Threatens to prosecute members of the previous administration (see “Banana Republic”)
Threatens legislative trickery (aka “Reconciliation”) to subvert the will of the majority
Need I go on?
What is rapidly going down the toilet here is Liberty: You can not turn your life over to the state and still retain the essentials of what makes this country so strong, and so able to do good for its people and for the world. You cannot seize the property of others, in some state-sponsored notion that it is “good for the collective”.
BIZGOSH
@Kevin
it’s easy: Medicare is a form of “socialized healthcare.” These poor, frightened people scream against socialized healthcare at the same time they scream “don’t take away my Medicare.” The non-sequiturs are overwhelmingly on yr, side, Kevin.
Catsy
@Kevin: Better trolls, please. Preferably ones with memories that go back further than Jan 20, 2009.
Kevin
Catsy:
Why? Is a fascist state less onerous if it is not led by George Bush? Get over it, and look at what is happening to this country.
Here is a little thought experiment: Suppose we implement all of the Obama-Pelosi-Reid plans, and manage to re-engineer the government, giving it vast power over our lives and our liberty. And then . . . Jeb Bush makes his run at the White House, and Rush Limbaugh helps him win it. Do you still want the government to have such powers in that case? It is YOUR short-term view that is putting you in danger here!
Kevin
Bizgosh: First of all, Medicare is a form of voucher system; it uses the services of the (sort of) free market – just like food stamps. The vast majority of conservatives favor voucher systems – when they are properly implemented (e.g., food stamps for poor people are A-OK; food stamps for drug dealers are not).
In any case, Medicare is a disaster in the making – like all other such government sanctioned Ponzi schemes. Ridiculing the ederly because they can’t quite find the words to express their rage just belittles you. The undercurrent of these protests is that our representatives no longer seem to think they have to listen to us. The majority of Americans do not want the Obama agenda to be implemented. It is not “what he advertised to them”.
There is no historical, economic, or practical reason to believe that the government can improve the healthcare system. They are good for fighting wars, and regulating commerce, and a few other things, and otherwise need to stay out of the People’s business until they are called upon.
Kevin
France Fights Universal Care’s High Cost
By DAVID GAUTHIER-VILLARS
. . . France claims it long ago achieved much of what today’s U.S. health-care overhaul is seeking: It covers everyone, and provides what supporters say is high-quality care. But soaring costs are pushing the system into crisis. The result: As Congress fights over whether America should be more like France, the French government is trying to borrow U.S. tactics.
In recent months, France imposed American-style “co-pays” on patients to try to throttle back prescription-drug costs and forced state hospitals to crack down on expenses. . . And service cuts — such as the closure of a maternity ward near Ms. Cuccarolo’s home — are prompting complaints from patients, doctors and nurses that care is being rationed. That concern echos worries among some Americans that the U.S. changes could lead to rationing.
The French system’s fragile solvency shows how tough it is to provide universal coverage while controlling costs, the professed twin goals of President Barack Obama’s proposed overhaul.
lawnorder
Beat Dougj to it.
Great minds think alike :)
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/8/6/211626/4885/420#c420
Catsy
@Kevin:
No sir, because your premises are too stupid, counterfactual and historically ignorant to respond to you as if you were making a serious argument in good faith. They constitute grammatically sound sentences in the English language, but so does The elephant rose into the pudding every tangerine without astonishing a single red purpose.
It would actually reflect better on you if you were simply intellectually lazy or legitimately ignorant, regurgitating Fox Noise talking points while under the illusion that you’re somehow being erudite. The alternative is that you’re making bad faith arguments that you know full well are complete horseshit, and that everyone here knows are horseshit.
I’m not playing along. But I’ll bet that if you take these comments of yours and diary them at Redstate, you’ll appeal greatly to the three-minute-hate crowd over there.
BIZGOSH
@Kevin. Dude, you’e all over the place. Are for Medicare or against it? Is it government supported or not? Make up yr mind.