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You are here: Home / Politics / Torture / Have your defibrillator ready

Have your defibrillator ready

by DougJ|  August 24, 20093:11 pm| 82 Comments

This post is in: Torture

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Because this may give David Broder a heart attack:

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. has decided to appoint a prosecutor to examine nearly a dozen cases in which CIA interrogators and contractors may have violated anti-torture laws and other statutes when they allegedly threatened terrorism suspects, according to two sources familiar with the move.

Holder is poised to name John Durham, a career Justice Department prosecutor from Connecticut, to lead the inquiry, according to the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the process is not complete.

Durham’s mandate, the sources added, will be relatively narrow: to look at whether there is enough evidence to launch a full-scale criminal investigation of current and former CIA personnel who may have broken the law in their dealings with detainees. Many of the harshest CIA interrogation techniques have not been employed against terrorism suspects for four years or more.

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Reader Interactions

82Comments

  1. 1.

    eric

    August 24, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Perfect. Now the process begins. Time to break a few eggs.

  2. 2.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 24, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Earlier today there were rumors of a Panetta resignation.

  3. 3.

    Dr. I. F. Stone

    August 24, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    David Broder: “LMAO”

  4. 4.

    zmulls

    August 24, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    But aren’t they only going to investigate those cases where someone went over the very generous lines given to them by Yoo and company? I would hate to investigate the outliers and by doing so give some legitimacy to the rest of it…..

  5. 5.

    donovong

    August 24, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    If Cheney, Addington and Yoo are not among them, then the process is tainted and corrupt. Period.

  6. 6.

    FormerSwingVoter

    August 24, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Holy fucking shit.

  7. 7.

    David Hunt

    August 24, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    A Democrat upsetting David Broder by not being “bypartisan” is not a bug. It is a feature.

  8. 8.

    Comrade Mary

    August 24, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Read dday at Hullabaloo and don’t quite lose all hope.

    The narrowness of this investigation, focused on only the CIA personnel who colored outside the lines set down by moral lepers John Yoo and Jay Bybee, is reprehensible. … However, just the possibility of prosecuting individuals who did, after all, break the law, is enough for establishmentarians like Leon Panetta to reportedly threaten resignation. And the Durham investigation, in the end, is up to John Durham. He can be given a mandate, but Eric Holder has said in the past that he cannot circumscribe an investigation so much as to effectively immunize certain individuals. If the small fish flip, Durham, like any prosecutor, can find out who authorized their actions. And that can lead to the Bush White House.

  9. 9.

    Janus Daniels

    August 24, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    “Many of the harshest CIA interrogation techniques have not been employed against terrorism suspects for four years or more.”
    Sure.

  10. 10.

    eric

    August 24, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    @donovong: There was a time when even this was off the table in the Village. If I were a Cheney accolite, I would be pulling real hard against health care reform. If Obama wins that and shores up his left flank and americans are happy with health care and an improving economy….well, we might have to see an expansion of the prosecutor’s role once we learn more about everyone’s level of involvement.

    eric

  11. 11.

    Leelee for Obama

    August 24, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Fuck Broder’s heart, my heart is fluttering over this! I knew it would come sooner or later, but I honestly expected it later. This is so teh BOMB!

  12. 12.

    Creamy Goodness

    August 24, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    You’ve been duped, DougJ.

    The only people they’re going after are the low-level operatives. As with Abu Ghraib, there will be hapless scapegoats, while the architects of the policy will get off scot free.

    By putting a positive spin on this ghastly policy, you are helping to ensure that the Obama administration gets away with undermining the rule of law, just as the Bush administration did.

  13. 13.

    DougJ

    August 24, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    You’ve been duped, DougJ.

    You mean Broder will be happy about this?

  14. 14.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    If the small fish flip, Durham, like any prosecutor, can find out who authorized their actions. And that can lead to the Bush White House.

    This is exactly true. And the fastest and quietest way to get to truth of how it all flowed downhill from the WH.

    Politically, all the wingnuts can do is sit by and wring their hands, because it will all be secret as all inquiries are. Of course there are always leaks (teehee) al la Ken Starr.

    Of course when completed, a decision will have to be made to prosecute anybody, and whether to issue a public report, which isn’t SOP but can be done if the Presnit so chooses.

    And Kay and other lawyers can explain why SP’s are bound to follow all leads, if related to a narrow query of intent.

  15. 15.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    You mean Broder will be happy about this?

    LOL. Nice comeback Dougj.

  16. 16.

    Brendan

    August 24, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Have your defibrillator Depends ready

    Fixed – he won’t have a heart attack, he’ll shart himself…

  17. 17.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 24, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Funny how this decision comes out shortly after Democrats finally figured out they are going to get exactly zero GOP votes on health care reform. A complete coinc-i-dinkey, I’m sure.

  18. 18.

    joes527

    August 24, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    @Creamy Goodness:

    The only people they’re going after are the low-level operatives. As with Abu Ghraib, there will be hapless scapegoats, while the architects of the policy will get off scot free.

    That is one possible outcome.

    But this could also be the camel’s nose in the tent (or whatever that metaphor is) Once they start investigating it is going to be tough to un-investigate stuff.

    I would rather Cheney be brought up on charges as a first step, but since the other option we’ve been faced with has been “we’re going to ignore it all” it is hard to see this step as anything but goodness.

    And, yeah, Stuck. THIS is the kind of thing I was looking for in that other thread.

  19. 19.

    jwb

    August 24, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    @eric: I actually wonder if this isn’t a little bit of payback for the GOP not behaving on health care. Unless we believe that this was simply Holder’s decision.

  20. 20.

    Legalize

    August 24, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    “And Kay and other lawyers can explain why SP’s are bound to follow all leads, if related to a narrow query of intent.”

    The special prosecutor’s duty is to “the truth”. The AG’s mandate merely defines the prosecutor’s road map to the truth. Neither Holder nor Obama can tell the prosecutor NOT to pursue the truth wherever the facts lead him. Expect John

    Durham to be mercilessly smeared and defamed by winger loyalists. Fortunately, he is obligated to tell them fuck all about his investigation.

  21. 21.

    ET

    August 24, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    I already feel sorry for John Durham. Not only does he have to read stores and examine all the evidence but then he becomes the centerpiece of stories about his investigation – and by extension him- is leading this country to ruin. Ruin I say! The terrorists are going to come over here and blow us up and it is all his, Holder’s, and Obama’s fault. And this is all before he even starts “investigating” much less recommends anything.

  22. 22.

    Zifnab

    August 24, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    I’m just waiting for someone to discover the meme between Dick Cheney and some cabinet official where the official asks to check the legal status of the prison / captive / torture technique and Cheney fires back, “It’s your job to do it, and it’s Yoo’s job to make it legal” or some riff on the same.

    These guys were incredibly sloppy and overt in their practices. Durham is going to have to work really hard if he wants to lay out a case that doesn’t implicate everyone up the food chain.

  23. 23.

    Librarian

    August 24, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    The people at FDL are already calling this a whitewash. Maybe, but can we perhaps wait a few minutes for the man to move in to his new office?

  24. 24.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    I question either the good faith, or the consciousness, of people who respond to this news as it PROVES THEY WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG about Obama blocking accountability for the previous administration’s crimes.

    After Kenneth Starr and Patrick Fitzgerald, “the special prosecutor has a narrow mandate” is far too weak a thread on which to hang a legitimate argument. It’s the sort of thing one says when one is determined to hold to a preconceived position.

  25. 25.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    I question either the good faith, or the consciousness, of people who respond to this news as it PROVES THEY WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG about Obama blocking accountability for the previous administration’s crimes.

    Piss Off, WATB.

  26. 26.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Unless I read your comment wrong.

  27. 27.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Unless I read your comment wrong. Which I may well have. Then my apologies.

  28. 28.

    Creamy Goodness

    August 24, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    @DougJ:

    You mean Broder will be happy about this?

    Yes. It’s just the sham he would want.

    And now you’re an enabler.

  29. 29.

    jrg

    August 24, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Obama needs to fire Holder. These investigations are going to cause outrage on the right (which has been very cooperative up to this point), and might derail support for Obama’s domestic agenda in the GOP.

    We cannot afford to let right-wing howler monkeys dominate the next few month’s news cycles. Obama must capitulate to every demand, otherwise the GOP will never act like grown ups.

    And Obama should show us his d*ck. Also. Too.

  30. 30.

    wilfred

    August 24, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    I’ll bet Broder will be happy about this:

    The Obama administration will continue the Bush administration’s practice of sending terror suspects abroad for interrogation but will monitor to insure they are not tortured, officials said.

    So then it’s ok. Another gem from the Great Cuntpromiser.

    Fuck him and his enablers.

  31. 31.

    licensed to kill time

    August 24, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    @joes527:

    under the tent, camel’s nose…..I agree, I hope this is opening the door to wider prosecutions as the low level ops start flipping. One can only hope.

  32. 32.

    Zifnab

    August 24, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    @Creamy Goodness: :-p Holder must be in on it, too!

    I’m sure you weren’t a big fan of Patrick Fitzgerald because he didn’t personally frog walk half the Bush White House to jail five minutes after he took the case.

  33. 33.

    Llelldorin

    August 24, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    I’m trying to decide between “Obama–19-dimensional chessmaster” or “Obama–the David Lynch of politics.” It occurs to me that a lot of what gets attributed to 19-dimensional-chess could be achieved just as easily by putting up an enormous smokescreen of confusing moves that give the appearance of being carefully planned, then just looking smug whenever anything good happens.

    “I want to look forwards, not backwards” coupled with “Here’s Atty. Gen. Holder, my cabinet secretary tasked with looking backwards so I don’t have to,” is either genius or just incredibly weird.

  34. 34.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 24, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    …confusing moves that give the appearance of being carefully planned, then just looking smug whenever anything good happens.

    Joe Buck keeps telling me good teams make their own luck.

    (Of course, that’s Joe Buck.)

  35. 35.

    mclaren

    August 24, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    About time. We’ve heard about slicing prisoners’ genitals with a scalpel — will they also be investigating the latest horrors involving power tools?

    You have to wonder if there’s anything the CIA and Army goons did that Saddam didn’t. Acid? Sitting people on red-hot stoves? Pouring molten lead into prisoners’ throats?

  36. 36.

    Darius

    August 24, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    “I want to look forwards, not backwards” coupled with “Here’s Atty. Gen. Holder, my cabinet secretary tasked with looking backwards so I don’t have to,” is either genius or just incredibly weird.

    I’d say it’s just a case of the Attorney General doing what the Attorney General is supposed to do.

  37. 37.

    gocart mozart

    August 24, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I agree. Big camel under the tent, potentially. Every criminal conspiracy investigation starts with the little guys. You get them to roll and then you move up the food chain.

    Also, DougJ, do you think the Panetta “resignation threat/yelling” leak was just to give him cover with his boys at the CIA?

  38. 38.

    Tsulagi

    August 24, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    If Holder limits this investigation, and continues to do so to interrogators only, then it is bullshit and worse than doing nothing. McCain, before he started concern trolling himself on torture, once highlighted the problems an Army intel captain in Iraq had for over a year and a half seeking clarification of permissible interrogation techniques and practices. He got none. The clarification he got was to get the job done.

    Now you would want to go after those who put an extra dot on an “i” or crossed a “t” twice in a Yoo memo? They’re the bad apples? Garbage. All that would do is give your validation to the practice of the unitary executive and their administration being the Ultimate Deciderer of which laws and treaties like Geneva Conventions to adhere to and which you choose not to. And that if you can find a hack to write a legal opinion covering what you dictate, then your ass is covered.

  39. 39.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Fuck him and his enablers.

    Harry Belafonte: I’m gonna say it, Chris: Osama bin Laden is an Uncle Tom!

    Chris Matthews: Wow! I don’t even know who that’s offensive to!

  40. 40.

    T. O'Hara

    August 24, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    War on the CIA? What is he thinking? This is so 4 months ago:

    WASHINGTON — President Obama threw open the curtain Thursday on harsh interrogation techniques used by the Bush administration against terrorism suspects, but he said CIA officers would not be prosecuted for their actions.

  41. 41.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    “I want to look forwards, not backwards” coupled with “Here’s Atty. Gen. Holder, my cabinet secretary tasked with looking backwards so I don’t have to,” is either genius or just incredibly weird.

    Though it may look unfamiliar, this is actually how the relationship between the President and the Justice Department is supposed to work. The President basically leaves the Attorney General alone, and the AG and the people at Justice go about their business without coordinating their actions with the White House political office.

    It’s like a whole new world. The torture investigation is the big story here, but what this means in terms of undoing the Bush administration’s politicization of the Justice Department is important, too.

  42. 42.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Why do you believe Patrick Fitzgerald had a narrow reach?

    That isn’t reflected in his appointment letter from Comey, a letter Fitzgerald requested to outline his powers. It just isn’t there.

  43. 43.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Why do you believe Patrick Fitzgerald had a narrow reach?

    I don’t think his mandate was particularly narrow, just that the investigation ended up going in directions that weren’t anticipated when it was begun. As these things tend to do.

    Facts come out, spawning an expansion of the investigation or other investigations…these things have a momentum that goes beyond what they’re originally conceived to be.

  44. 44.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    @T. O’Hara:

    It must be hard for you. This prosecutor rectified a problematic conviction of a GOP Senator. Imagine that.
    What if Holder’s the real thing? President Bush’s conservative lawyers will look like sorry political hacks who violated their oath, and they were the legal brain trust on the Right. Smart, but…missing something essential, don’t you think? Like an ethical sense, or decency, or really a strict compliance with the law.

  45. 45.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    I agree, but Fitzgerald’s mandate was as broad as can be. I apologize. I thought we were blaming the mythical “narrow mandate” for the lack of convictions in Plame, an argument I don’t buy.
    I think Fitzgerald told the truth. The witnesses lied, and he couldn’t get a conviction. It happens.

  46. 46.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    August 24, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Holder’s decision did not appoint a Special Prosecutor. He ordered a preliminary review to gather information to determine if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a full investigation. We’ll have to see how this turns out but don’t start the “I told you sos” until this is done. This guy could very well keep this so narrow you’ll get a couple of sacrificial lambs a la Lyndie Englund, et al and nobody above the rank of LT will suffer except to maybe have a career ended. Don’t hold your breath if you think You, Addington, Bybee and Cheney are going to be frog marched out of their houses with a coat over their head any time soon.

    From what I’ve read this is a very narrow preliminary inquiry. VERY narrow. Don’t get your hopes up. This may be less than meets the eye. Remember these are all establishment guys and they have not shown much of a propensity for rocking the boat when it comes to relinquishing executive power grabbed by Bush. They are better than Bush/Cheney but that isn’t much of a standard now, is it?

  47. 47.

    geg6

    August 24, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    This is the best news I’ve heard in…well, maybe since Watergate.

    For you young’uns, the special prosecutor (well, the first one) was given a narrow mandate to investigate the break in at DNC headquarters. And we all know where it eventually led. I have high hopes that this one will follow the evidence in the same way and with the same success. And I also have complete confidence that this time there will be no Saturday Night Massacre.

  48. 48.

    Creamy Goodness

    August 24, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Glenzilla steps in.

    This sets up, at most, a process where a few low-level sacrificial lambs — some extra-sadistic intelligence versions of Lynndie Englands — might be investigated and prosecuted where they tortured people the wrong way. Those who tortured “the right way” — meaning the way the OLC directed — will receive full-scale immunity.

    He also links to a TimF post which shows that not everybody here at Balloon Juice has their head up their ass.

    To put it bluntly, this strategy is a goddamn disgrace. We called it whitewashing when the Bush administration made a few grunts pay for the orders they followed at Abu Ghraib…

  49. 49.

    T. O'Hara

    August 24, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    It’s like a whole new world. The torture investigation is the big story here, but what this means in terms of undoing the Bush administration’s politicization of the Justice Department is important, too.

    You can’t belive this. Investigating individual interrogators to see if they exceeded orders does nothing to address the “torture policies” of the Bush administration. The Department of Justice hiring practices are overwhelmingly liberal (because their candidate pool is). So is CIA.

    You guys should be howling. This is blue on blue on blue.

  50. 50.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    Well, sure, but what’s the point of hanging him before you know?

    I understand vigilance, but at some point you have to let the prosecutor be the prosecutor, without direction. Objecting is fine, but I think you’re way out in front. I don’t know that we can or should attempt to direct an investigation. It’s as if we want him to consult on decisions, and he simply can’t do that.

  51. 51.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    @T. O’Hara:

    Oh, you don’t know anything more than anyone else. Nor are you going to know, because this isn’t Gonzales circus-clown time.

    You’ll just have to wait.

  52. 52.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Let’s hope this is conducted professionally, unlike Judge “leaky sieve” Starr’s circus act.

  53. 53.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    Glenzilla steps in.

    Wait, wait…don’t tell me…he’s against it, right? This just PROVES that Obama is a sell-out, right? Even though the report Obama was never going to be released has now been released (that’s the second time that’s happened, btw), and Greenwald has been waving that bloody shirt at his proof, he’s still supremely confident that he couldn’t possibly have misjudged Obama.

    Hey, look at that. What do I win?

  54. 54.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    T O’Hara.

    Sorry about your heartburn.

    Ha ha. Elections have consequences.

  55. 55.

    T. O'Hara

    August 24, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Oh, you don’t know anything more than anyone else.

    They’re investigating your guys, not mine. What do you think is going to happen? This is a good start:Obama White House v. CIA; Panetta Threatened to Quit:

    A “profanity-laced screaming match” at the White House involving CIA Director Leon Panetta, and the expected release today of another damning internal investigation, has administration officials worrying about the direction of its newly-appoint intelligence team, current and former senior intelligence officials tell ABC News.com.

  56. 56.

    T. O'Hara

    August 24, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Sorry about your heartburn.

    Only if I laugh so hard I choke. Wait until the leaking begins in earnest.

  57. 57.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    A profanity-laden screaming match?

    With an unnamed person at the White House?

    Gee, who could that have been?

  58. 58.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    @T. O’Hara:

    I don’t know what’s going to happen, and either do you.

    I can’t wait for President Cheney and his creepy ghoulish daughter to make the rounds again.

    She’s a real testament to nepotism.

  59. 59.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    You guys should be howling. This is blue on blue on blue.

    And yet…WE’RE NOT!

    That’s right, we’re happy about the prospect of the CIA being held accountable.

    I know YOU would be upset if a Republican administration was investigating a heavily-Republican organization. It would drive you batty. You would be – what’s the word? Oh, “howling” – if that sort of thing happened, because you are a partisan hack with no principles beyond what is convenient for your political movement.

    So you assume that the left is just as corrupt as your own black, shriveled little heart.

    But here we are, most certainly not howling. Why, it’s almost as if partisan politics aren’t actually the driving force behind the support for torture investigations!

    No wonder you’re so confused. You’ve never seen anything like this.

  60. 60.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    Of course, the whole “CIA is infested with Democrats” line – last trotted out to explain why they didn’t support Ahmed Chalabi and were unconvinced that Saddam had WMDs – is irrelevant here, because most of “the CIA” operatives involved here were actually mercenary, hireling contractors, contracted by the leadership put in place by the Bush administration, for the purpose of going around the professional, career CIA officers.

  61. 61.

    Ash Can

    August 24, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    The Department of Justice hiring practices are overwhelmingly liberal (because their candidate pool is). So is CIA. … They’re investigating your guys, not mine.

    OK, I’m not at all sure if this is a spoof tell or simply classic pathological denial. What’s the consensus here?

  62. 62.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Apparently the new CIA report says the KSM’s children were threatened as part of his interrogation. And the Queen of Outrage takes it in stride.

    Can’t say I’m getting all wee-weed up about the DOJ disclosure today that Bush/CIA interrogators threatened 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed’s family. Nope. No tears.

    Wingnut Mafia

  63. 63.

    joes527

    August 24, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Apparently the new CIA report says the KSM’s children were threatened as part of his interrogation.

    Wait. What?

    We are talking about the show 24 here, right?

  64. 64.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    @Ash Can:

    OK, I’m not at all sure if this is a spoof tell or simply classic pathological denial. What’s the consensus here?

    It seems to me that both have merged into indistinguishability .

    I think I just made a new word.

  65. 65.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Ash Can,

    No, the myth that the CIA is staffed by partisan Democrats who are also effeminate wimps and disloyal to their country goes back a long way. You should have seen National Review tearing into them back in 2001-2002, as they fluffed for Ahmed Chalabi.

    That’s why Rumsfeld had to tell Wolfowitz to form the Office of Special Plans: because those liberal traitors in the CIA were protecting Saddam by downplaying the very solid evidence about al Qaeda involvement in 9/11, the Iraqi WMD program, and the surpassing awesomeness of Ahmed Chalabi.

  66. 66.

    Makewi

    August 24, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Don’t worry folks, when Holder finds out the CIA was employing Black Panthers to carry out interrogations/poll security, the investigation will be quietly dropped.

  67. 67.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    @Makewi:

    your troll-fu gets weaker everyday.

  68. 68.

    Ash Can

    August 24, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    @joe from Lowell: Is that where O’Hara gets that idea? Wow. How times have changed from the days when the CIA was a den of sadistic fascists. (Of course, to today’s right wingers, that’s the same thing.)

  69. 69.

    Bender

    August 24, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    CIA Operatives doing their jobs = investigate!
    Armed Black Panthers at polling stations = nothing to see here!

    Change!

  70. 70.

    kay

    August 24, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    @Bender:

    Oh, fun. Both loyal GOP’ers are spouting something about Black Panthers and Eric Holder. Is this yet another conspiracy theory?

    You’re reaching Clinton-era levels of nonsense, and it’s only the first year.

    I think it’s time to exhume Vince Foster again.

  71. 71.

    Makewi

    August 24, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    @kay:

    Thatta girl, pretend it didn’t happen and throw out the ghost of Vince Foster to support your case. I’ve told you before I’m not a Republican, but it is clear that your love of all things having to do with the Democrats clouds your judgment.

    It’s OK, you can still get better.

  72. 72.

    joe from Lowell

    August 24, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    So, they’re taking a week off from calling Obama a fascist who’s like Hitler, in order to give a little love to covert torture by the government’s security apparatus?

    Wingnuts are so awesome. This isn’t even going to give them a moment’s pause.

  73. 73.

    burnspbesq

    August 24, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    @Librarian:

    The only thing that would make the FDL crowd happy would be for Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, and Yoo to be hung from the lighting grid above the set of the Rachel Maddow Show, live in prime time. Without a trial. Preferably tonight.

  74. 74.

    Makewi

    August 24, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Obama isn’t Hitler. He’s the 2nd coming of George W Bush, albeit with a better tan.

    Hey, how’s that whole Closing Gitmo promise coming along?

  75. 75.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    @Makewi:

    I’ve told you before I’m not a Republican,

    WTF are you up to now. Just being an all purpose troll for any side that’ll let you disrupt this blog. Pretty soon you’ll claim your above politics altogether and are some kind of emissary from god almighty. Your just a fucking lunatic wasting our time.

  76. 76.

    chrome agnomen

    August 24, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    that would make me happy too

  77. 77.

    Makewi

    August 24, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I’m above politics altogether and am on a mission from God to help you identify which brand of sandwich spread is best.

    It’s Miracle Whip.

    Go in peace, serve the lord.

  78. 78.

    General Winfield Stuck

    August 24, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    @Makewi:

    Lunatic it is then. Likely sent by other lunatics.

  79. 79.

    someguy

    August 24, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    This is all pathetic. He’s going to keep on doing the same old shit that Bush did with interrogation and rendition and war. (I particularly like the genital slicing. That’s a good tactic, if your national strategic goal is to slice as many genitals as possible). Meanwhile, he’s going to have Holder kinda sorta drag some people to account, maybe. But nobody important.

    At the same time, they keep the whole military/industrial/police state complex spun up over some non-existent Brown Peepul Tear-wrist threat. To paraphrase Obi Wan, this is not the change you are looking for…

  80. 80.

    Anne Laurie

    August 25, 2009 at 2:21 am

    @burnspbesq:

    The only thing that would make the FDL crowd happy would be for Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, and Yoo to be hung from the lighting grid above the set of the Rachel Maddow Show, live in prime time.

    Okay, that image made me very, very happy. Yeah, yeah, very bad kharma, setting the wrong standards, what will the neighbors think…

    Also, you forgot Dubya, Rove, Roger Ailes, and Justice John Roberts. Not that I know anything about Roberts authorizing this particular set of crimes, but any fantasy about getting that sociopath off the Court is a good fantasy.

  81. 81.

    Tom Degan

    August 25, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Yeah. Let the investigations proceed and the chips fall where they may. In the course of destroying this country, George W. Bush (the First Fool as I loved to call him) undid DECADES of diplomatic protocol.

    Were these morons able to get information via torture? Sure they did. Most of that info was false. You see, under those circumstances, the person being tortured will say just about anything. It is quite interesting: no one in this administration (Excuse me, I meant to say, “THAT administration) was smart enough to figure this out.

    http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

    Tom Degan
    Goshen, NY

  82. 82.

    grendelkhan

    August 25, 2009 at 9:48 am

    @joes527: Once they start investigating it is going to be tough to un-investigate stuff.

    No, it’s really not. Plenty of things that keep being rediscovered–with assurances of hard-headed, no-holds-barred investigations–have been part of this recurring news cycle since before the inauguration. The ACLU released evidence of prisoners being tortured to death nearly four years ago. As a nation, we’ve done a fabulous job of ignoring that, and I’m fully confident that we can do the same with any evidence (re-)discovered by anyone working at the Justice Department.

    Indicting the “little fish” at Abu Ghraib had absolutely no effect on those higher up the food chain. Thinking that things will be different this time is baseless optimism. It’s utterly foolish. It doesn’t matter that this pisses off David Broder or Leon Panetta.

    I’d be willing to make a wager for a nominal sum–which I will be delighted to pay, if I am incorrect–that John Yoo will still be an unindicted free man a year from now. I believe this because despite the assurances that we just have to give the system time (assurances which, no doubt, will be repeated right up until the end of the term), the problem is not, and never has been, that our kindly new Democratic administration just hasn’t gotten around to properly investigating our little horrorshow. They’re not going to. How can anybody still doubt this?

    I am, again, astonished at the bottomless well of self-delusion DougJ is drinking from.

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