Noam Scheiber should get his meds changed (via via):
…If Kennedy were to pass away in the next few months, the Senate math on any health care vote would almost certainly get easier, not harder. For one thing, it would single-handedly make the magic number 51 votes, not 60, since it would be suicidal for the GOP to filibuster the culmination of the last Kennedy brother’s lifelong crusade. Beyond that, I suspect the coverage of Kennedy’s death would silence healthcare reform critics and boost proponents in a way that netted at least a couple of wavering moderates — so clearing the 51-vote threshold wouldn’t be a problem. Heck, you might even see Utah Republican (and longtime Kennedy friend) Orrin Hatch back in the reformist camp.
There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you, fool me fifteen thousand times, I get a gig writing for the New Republic.
Balconesfault
Exactly which Republican Party has Noam been watching for the last few years?
McGeorge Bundy
Riiiiiiiiiight. (No pun intended.)
Lola
Yeah, if only the Republicans had honor. That would also mean the Republicans had shame. They possess neither.
RIP Ted Kennedy. The Senate is a much worse place without you.
ellaesther
The first real love of my life was a young man named Noam (pronounced correctly, it’s: “NO-ahm”). I realize that’s related in only the most tangential of senses, but I have a very hard time not responding to the name, rather than the thoughts.
Clearly, I need my lunch. Carry on.
Warren Terra
There must be good money to be made playing poker with the TNR people. How such wide-eyed naifs survive in the big city without getting fleeced on a daily basis is beyond me.
Hunter Gathers
Burns: You know, Smithers, I think I’ll donate a million dollars to the local orphanage…when pigs fly!
[They laugh. The pig sails across the sky before them.]
Smithers: Will you be donating that million dollars now, Sir?
Burns: Nooo, I’d still prefer not.
gizmo
Earth to Noam:
The Republicans don’t give a shit.
About anything.
Zandar
Yep.
Called it yesterday, and lo and behold, douchebaggery confirmed this morning.
someguy
I predict the right will be dancing on Kennedy’s grave before it’s filled. Witness the concern trolling and crocodile tears over at unnatural review.
geg6
I read that at the time it was posted and laughed out loud at the stupidity of it.
Right. GOPers acting like humans with a conscience or any sense of sympathy?
Never happened, never gonna happen. I do believe that Anne Laurie’s thread this morning proved that beyond all doubt.
Napoleon
Noam must not have picked up a paper or turned on the TV since 1994.
jibeaux
“the coverage of Kennedy’s death would silence healthcare reform critics”
…and health care reform critics respond: Chappaquiddick!
“it would be suicidal for the GOP to filibuster the culmination of the last Kennedy brother’s lifelong crusade.”
uh-huh. Consider them on suicide watch, I guess. A very weird kind of suicide watch in which I provide a rope, a chin-up bar, a pistol, a couple bottles of Valium, an open window and some Nickelback CDs, and walk away hoping, but not real hopefully.
jenniebee
I think he’s probably right, actually. The effect of Kennedy’s death that counts is the effect inside the beltway. It’s Broder and his crowd that would find it unseemly to filibuster a bill guaranteeing universal coverage now, and Broder’s people are the people the beltway folks can’t afford to cross.
TNR has been consistently wrong on issues because they report on conventional thinking inside the beltway. They’re right about the politics for the same reason.
asiangrrlMN
I gotta agree with the majority here. MM (the Asian one) is already writing nonsense about how the left better not use this opportunity to push through health reform. Yeah, there is no class in GOP (except, uber-wealthy, of course).
SpotWeld
I wonder how long before Glenn Beck compares coverage of Ted Kennedy’s death (and by extension, any coverage of Health Care reform) to the “media over saturation” of Michael Jackson’s death.
In sort, in Glenn Beck’s mind. Jackson = Kennedy = Health Care = Death Panels = Mustard!!
Common Sense
Sheep. All of you.
You think it’s just a happy coincidence that Obama’s grandmother dies right before the election and Kennedy dies right before health reform? It’s part of the plan, suckers. He will take down anyone he has to in order to rule with an iron fist.
jibeaux
@asiangrrlMN:
Right, because it would somehow dishonor Kennedy’s memory to pass his health care bill. Malkin should go back to cheerleading, at which she is more competent than opining.
Shawn in ShowMe
Remember the heartfelt humility the Republicans showed when Paul Wellstone died? Me neither.
Morbo
Noam is right, but not by as much as he thinks he is. In baseball parlance, they’ve picked up an extra half of a vote; he seems to think they’ll get a ton of full votes from Republicans crossing the aisle. Guess what, cousin, PFFFBBBT, ain’t happening.
Chad N Freude
@jenniebee:
And Grassley, Coburn and company also feel it would be unseemly? Have they ever behaved in a seemly fashion?
gopher2b
Can we please……for the love of god……pass this bill on the fucking merits. For the past five months, Congress and the President have been anxiety ridden about getting bi-partisan support and now some people think the way to get this done is by associating it with Ted Kennedy. Seriously, you people are fucking retarded.
If people spent half the amount of time actually communicating the merits of not having health insurance tied to your job, etc as they spend trying to figure out cute (and simple) ways selling this would have been done last May.
Chad N Freude
@gopher2b:
It will not pass on the merits because the enemies of the health care reform have obfuscated the merits, distorted the merits, and lied through their teeth about the merits.
asiangrrlMN
@Shawn in ShowMe: Oh my god. I had completely forgotten that. I was in SF when Senator Wellstone died, and it broke my heart not to be in MN. I couldn’t believe how coldly the Republicans used the opportunity to their advantage.
asiangrrlMN
@Chad N Freude: Plus, the spineless traditional media refuses to discuss the bill on its merits.
Joshua Norton
If the Dems don’t use the health-care bill as a tribute to Teddy then they’ll have managed to somehow crawl under a bar that has already been set too low for them.
With Repiggies blathering 911 at the drop of a hat and wanting to name everything that stands still after Ronald Raygun they have no place moralizing about cashing in on death or the power of someone’s name. But of course, that’s never ever stopped them before. They’ve pretty much become a party of super villains, wannabe super villains and the lackeys that suck up to them.
JGabriel
Oddly enough, I find that I accurately predicted conservative and Republican reaction to Kennedy’s death over a week ago:
It’s sad how predictably bottom-feeding they are.
.
geg6
@asiangrrlMN:
Merits, shmerits. No one in the MSM or the noise machine give a damn about the merits.
Ram it through. In whatever fashion it can be rammed. Fuck the niceties that gopher2b is naive enough to think matter. Ram the mother fucker through.
Just Some Fuckhead
The Texas version goes like this: Fool me once, shame … shame on … you. Fool me — can’t get fooled again!
sugarfree
He’s actually right, though not for the reasons he gave.
The fact that Dems had 60 votes made people wonder why they couldn’t just pass health care reform, even though you and I know that the 60 votes was really less than that between Kennedy and Byrd’s illness and the conservadems.
Now, the ball is effectively back in the GOP’s court where they’ll get blamed for obstructing reform and Dems are freed to use whatever hardball tactics with reconciliation they want to get stuff accomplished.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Ashes to ashes
Funk to funky
We know Major Noam’s a junkie
Strung out in Heaven’s high
Hitting an all-time low…
freelancer
OT – Annie Laurie:
Via Sadly No,
You’ve just been called out by Dijongate Lawyer William Jacobsen:
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/rush-was-right-dems-call-for-kennedy.html
gopher2b
@asiangrrlMN:
Then buy ads. Seriously, how hard can it be to demonize the insurance agency. Show four ads: (1) a guy losing his insurance because he lost his job and his sick kid can’t get coverage, (2) insurance company sends dude notice that it won’t cover a procedure that already occurred and now he’s on the hook and bankrupt, (3) insurance company refuses to honor the coverage, (4) poor family waits until mom gets really sick and then has to use the ER for treatment.
This is not hard.
Democrats may be on the correct side of many issues but they cannot sell product to save their lives. Whining about and finger pointing at the minority party and media does not work.
gopher2b
@geg6:
Naive? I don’t really care how its done; just fucking do it already. Trying to “sell it” in the name of Ted Kennedy is a terrible idea.
geg6
@freelancer:
If I were Anne Laurie, I would consider that a high honor.
ruemara
this is what happens when you smoke too much pot and legislate. or write these dumbass columns
geg6
@gopher2b:
Well, I apologize if you’re offended, but it is either naive or the thought of someone who has been in a cave for the last month that this reform can be sold, at this point, on the merits.
Please explain to me exactly what is bad about the idea. You keep ragging on it, but you don’t seem to have any well thought out reasons as to exactly why it’s such a bad idea. As the last month has proven, the merits get drowned out by the deathers and gun toters. Even the very, very stupid have the idea that TK was cool with health care reform. So we sell it as a tribute to his lifelong legislative ambition, which just so happens to be the absolute truth.
JGabriel
In light of my earlier prediction being correct, I will now make a new prediction:
Republicans will say they can’t possibly vote for health insurance reform, because Democrats were mean to them at Teddy Kennedy’s funeral.
.
Midnight Marauder
@gopher2b:
Naive? I don’t really care how its done; just fucking do it already. Trying to “sell it” in the name of Ted Kennedy is a terrible idea.
Really? I think it’s actually pretty fucking fantastic and well past due.
You’ve been pretty riled up about what a “terrible idea” and how “fucking retarded” it is for The White House and Democrats to “associate” health care reform with Teddy Kennedy, but you’ve yet to provide any legitimate or substantive reasons why. I mean, the man was dedicated to fighting for THAT exact cause for decades upon decades. Why NOT associate his fight with the current fight if that’s the best way to get the thing through?
Because what they’ve been doing so far sure as hell ain’t working.
jurassicpork
I also give you… (drum roll and out of tune trumpets, maestro) Republican class. I took a lot of hits for the team on this one, dudes. I may not make it through the night. (Kaff, kaff)
Screamin' Demon
@someguy:
Fixed.
Da Bomb
@jurassicpork: I think I should just go and jab out my eyes with a butterknife.
JGabriel
gopher2b:
Frankly, I agree with Gopher2B on that point. Much as we love and admire Ted Kennedy, there are plenty on the right, and even in the center, who do not.
“Do it for Ted!” really isn’t going to motivate anyone who wasn’t already motivated to pass health care. At best, it’ll move the Overton Window on the issue a little to the left amongst Senate Democrats, and that admittedly may have some value.
.
gopher2b
@Midnight Marauder:
“Why NOT associate his fight with the current fight if that’s the best way to get the thing through?”
Your premise is wrong. Why do you assume this would work? You do understand that a SIGNIFICANT number of people in this country do not like the Kennedys. And this is not just wingnuts. There are a substantial number of independents that associate the Kennedys with a lot of things. It may be a Pavlov response at this point but I fail to see how that would help.
Besides, I will tell you exactly what will happen. First, conservatives will claim you are using the corpse of Ted Kennedy to pass a bill that doesn’t have the support of the country. This will turn a lot of people away from the debate. Second, they will use his death as a point of comparison to keep talking about death panels, etc. (Liberal elites get to die at their island home when their natural comes, but for the rest of us…its economy class). Third, after enough time has passed and they can get away with it, they will associate universal healthcare with the Kennedy ultraliberla brand.
“Because what they’ve been doing so far sure as hell ain’t working.”
And what exactly would that be? Whining about MSM? Whining that the other party isn’t getting on board? I haven’t seen a single ad on television. I haven’t seen a nationally debate. Why not challenge a Republican (even Limbaugh) to a debate and destroy him.
Shawn in ShowMe
Agreed, such a strategy is only preaching to the choir.
I am curious, however, about what Orrin Hatch has to say. He and Ted were supposed to be friends.
Anne Laurie
@freelancer: The trolls, I do not feed them. Or, if possible, read them. Such is my small effort towards setting a good example.
Shawn in ShowMe
What state are you in? There’s a targeted ad campaign right now in states with swing votes.
Midnight Marauder
@gopher2b:
Yeah, I understand that lots of people in this country don’t like the Kennedys. And sure, it may be a Pavlovian tactic, but I think if done correctly (a stretch, I know, give the people we’re discussing here), it would be a great catalyst to turn and turn this battle around.
And as far as everything you laid out regarding the reaction of wingnuts and conservatives if Democrats went ahead with using the Teddy Kennedy approach…WHO FUCKING CARES?!? Those Obstructionist Assholes are going to go nuts against ANYTHING that is in the name of reform. I mean, you have to understand that by now, right? They aren’t making a principled stand on the issues. They are Obstructionist Assholes. So, sure, take into account the hysterics that would come from them if this were to happen. And then plan for and handle them accordingly (Again, a stretch, considering the people we’re discussing).
And what exactly would that be? Whining about MSM? Whining that the other party isn’t getting on board? I haven’t seen a single ad on television. I haven’t seen a nationally debate. Why not challenge a Republican (even Limbaugh) to a debate and destroy him.
That’s my entire point. The primary criticism of the White House and the Democrats in Congress has been that there’s has been no real cohesive strategy in terms of them making the case of HCR. So now, here is an opportunity to reset the dialogue (to a degree), regroup, and come out firing in the name of someone who dedicate pretty much his entire career as a public service to making such a thing happen. Surely, you understand how this is an enticing proposition for many people.
Also, I cannot seriously believe that you haven’t seen a single ad on television regarding HCR. I cannot seriously believe that for one second.
gopher2b
@Midnight Marauder:
I live in Illinois so maybe that’s why I haven’t seen an add. But, I assume if the ads were any good one, at least some of them would be going viral on the web.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. But, the wingnuts goal is not to convince anyone. They are trying to turn people away from the debate. That is their goal. Make it so toxic that the people that do need to be convinced (middle class, secure jobs, like their insurance) don’t care enough to get involved. If that is the goal, riding Ted Kennedy’s name will not work (and, it may be counterproductive).
Like Andrew Card famously said about the Iraq War: You roll out new product in the fall.
Lets hope so.
JK
George W. Bush put it best: “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice you can’t get fooled again”
Ash Can
I can’t rag on Scheiber because his sentiment is so decent and good-hearted. I’d love to think that the scenario he describes could actually come to pass. Unfortunately, Republicans haven’t fit into a scenario like that in many a year. More’s the pity.
Midnight Marauder
@gopher2b:
I live in Illinois so maybe that’s why I haven’t seen an add. But, I assume if the ads were any good one, at least some of them would be going viral on the web.
Yeah, that’s a valid point. But on the greater issue of awareness, though, I would point to the fact that many of the various ad campaigns that have been unleashed thus far (both for reform, as well as against) were discussed at length on this blog (as well as in the blogosphere as a whole). And there have been a few that were notably lauded. I’m thinking of the Harry and Louise 2k9 ads, in particular.
But, the wingnuts goal is not to convince anyone. They are trying to turn people away from the debate. That is their goal. Make it so toxic that the people that do need to be convinced
Well, looks like our goal, then, is to keep people very much involved in the debate. And not only keep them involved, but work as hard as possible to frame the debate in a logical and sane manner, which goes a long way towards minimizing the toxicity of the wingnuts (which we all know can never really be eradicated. Much like cockroaches.).
If that is the goal, riding Ted Kennedy’s name will not work (and, it may be counterproductive).
Very true. But maybe, if people got their shit together for just long enough, it could turn out to actually be really fucking productive.
Like Andrew Card famously said about the Iraq War: You roll out new product in the fall.
Lets hope so.
You make me feel uncomfortable by nodding in agreement with Andrew Card.
Please don’t ever do that again. Thanks.
geg6
@gopher2b:
Seems to me you have the premise wrong.
It really doesn’t matter a fucking bit what the general public thinks about Ted (about which, by the way, I think you are mistaken…wingnuts don’t like him but I don’t think anyone else hated his guts).
It’s about getting the damn Senate Dems to pass a fucking bill. And among them, Ted and his memory hold a lotta fucking jack. Who do you think mentored almost all of them? Uncle Ted, that’s who. And that’s where this fight will be fought, among them in the Senate.
geg6
@gopher2b:
Ads, pro and con, HCR are running here in PA 24/7. You live in one of the safest of blue states. I live in a purple one (rarely called that, but it truly can and does swing both ways). We get inundated with this shit all day long, every year, on every subject imaginable.
gopher2b
@geg6:
If a Senator needs a slogan to pass a bill, then I really do weep for this country.
You have to convince their constituents and its matters whether THEY like Ted.
Midnight Marauder
@gopher2b:
You have to convince their constituents and its matters whether THEY like Ted.
Why don’t you give them a gander at this
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/message-on-ted-kennedy-to-conservatives.html