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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Good Question

Good Question

by Tim F|  January 20, 20104:40 pm| 45 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics

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From my post below:

Who are the key figures and what are their numbers?

That stopped me for a minute. Barney Frank is obviously a key figure, but he doesn’t need your money. Ditto for Nancy Pelosi. We need a list of wavering Democrats who might actually notice a money bomb from a site as thunderingly significant as this, and I honestly don’t know the answer. I suppose a lot of Reps are still too shellshocked to know their own position yet.

The list would have to include include liberals who think they can get a some magic pony deal down the road as well as spooked “moderates” and some Blue Dogs. I might even put up an ActBlue account for Reps on the list who come through.

Share your thoughts in the comments.

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45Comments

  1. 1.

    Robin G.

    January 20, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    How about, instead of donating money to a wavering Dem, we find a Blue Dog who has been rude recently (there are so many options!) and drop all the money on his/her primary challenger, then send the figures to said Blue Dog? “You know how you were dismissive of health care? We just gave $30k to your primary opponent specifically because of that! Toodles!”

    Okay, there’s lots of reasons that won’t do any good, but it would do my bitter, spiteful little heart some good.

  2. 2.

    rob!

    January 20, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Share my thoughts? My thoughts are we have an electorate too fucking stupid to govern itself, and one party so full of nancy boys that unless they can govern from a Super-Duper, Double-Dog 100-seat Senate Majority, they are afraid to accomplish anything at all. If they are met with even a whiff of a TeaBagger (ew), then they jump onto their chairs like the lady in the Tom & Jerry cartoons did when she saw a mouse.

    …although I guess this is not what you meant.

  3. 3.

    SpotWeld

    January 20, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Who ever is coming up to replace Lieberman.
    The CT governors election might have some play.

    What seats in MI are coming up?

  4. 4.

    max

    January 20, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    The list would have to include include liberals who think they can get a some magic pony deal down the road

    The only people I can think of are Kuchinich and that lady from upstate NY, the first one out of the box to say she wouldn’t vote for it. And hell, Kuchinich deserves your money anyways.

    as well as spooked “moderates” and some Blue Dogs.

    Anybody in the South, Ohio, Indiana (in particular – thank you Evan Bayh), Michigan, Penn, etc. Probably Colorado and New Mexico. That is, states you won (or states where GM went toes up), but you might well lose right now.

    max
    [‘This should not be difficult.’]

  5. 5.

    CHoward

    January 20, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    What about a march on Washington? I think $$ is a good idea, but I’m feeling so fired up I’m read to join the million of my closest friends I spent last January 20th with and head back to DC for a spectacular rally.

  6. 6.

    fuddmain

    January 20, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    @CHoward:

    I’ll bring the pitchforks. If I can get them past the body scanners, that is.

  7. 7.

    geg6

    January 20, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    I wouldn’t give a penny to ANY of these assholes. Especially Blue Dogs. But I am seriously hard pressed to think of a Dem I’d give money to.

    Wait. Alan Grayson. The only Dem who has been fighting the good fight and taking it to the GOP.

    Except pretty much everybody here likes punching him in the neck because he’s not polite enough for them.

  8. 8.

    Tom Levenson

    January 20, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Not quite to the “damn them all” intent of the thread, but I’d urge everyone to take a close look at Paul Hodes, currently the congressman from New Hampshire’s 2nd district, running from the Democratic side to fill the seat the unctuous Judd Gregg is vacating.

    He’s a good guy who has campaigned seriously hard and well in his state. He’s running even in the last poll I saw with his presumed front running Repug opposition. I’ll be donating what I have to spare (not much now, more in the summer, it looks like) and driving north as often as I can to help.

    His campaign site: http://www.paulhodesforsenate.com/

    Among other recommendations to many on this site, he is married to a children’s musician, Peggo Hodes, with whom he has recorded under the name “Peggo and Paul.” Not quite to my taste — but how many senate candidates are you going to get who worked under David Souter (when he was NH AG), voted against TARP (about which I have mixed feelings) and plays while his wife sings a rather lugubrious tempo-ed “Shenandoah?”

    Seriously — he’s impressed me in the two times I have canvassed for him as an MA carpetbagger looking for competitive races, and he’d be a vast improvement over Gregg and the GOP competition lining up for the seat.

  9. 9.

    mcc

    January 20, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Wait. Alan Grayson. The only Dem who has been fighting the good fight and taking it to the GOP.

    No. He was asking for legislators, not cable tv personalities.

  10. 10.

    Guster

    January 20, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    We are all Jane Hamsher now.

    We’ve got no leverage. They aren’t scared of us. I’m pretty sure that a moneybomb works like this: “You say the right thing, so here’s some cash. Wait! Now you’re saying the wrong things! Can I please have my money back? No? Oh. Okay, then.”

  11. 11.

    mey

    January 20, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    @mcc:

    No. He was asking for legislators, not cable tv personalities.

    Oh, go suck a dirty sock. Douche.

  12. 12.

    Rick Taylor

    January 20, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Also “moderates” who’ve promised to vote against any bill that doesn’t eliminate any spending on insurance that covers abortion.

  13. 13.

    mai naem

    January 20, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Sorry I don’t think our money makes a difference. These people will just go out there and whore themselves to Goldman Sachs who will give them $50K plus money for the DSCC and the DNC and whatever leadership pac, library fund and ofcourse jobs for their wives/brothers/sisters/dad/mom/sons/daughters/mistresses/their regular hookers. Unless you have a million bucks to give them they don’t give a crap.

  14. 14.

    nepat

    January 20, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Curiously, in all the finger-pointing and overall high dungeon today, no one has suggested taking this palpable frustration and mobilizing it into some kind of pro-healthcare reform national rally that would actually begin to provide some political cover for our pathologically fearful legislators. Let’s face it, the Teabaggers were very effective in building political momentum for their Republican legislators, who were able to wrap themselves in an “American people have spoken” blanket as they voted “no” on every piece of Democratic legislation.

    The best defense is a good offense, etc.

  15. 15.

    mcc

    January 20, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    So the problem is that the House has a few hundred people in it and so it’s not like the Senate where individual members make a big difference by themselves. There are not any “swing votes”. What you want to find is an individual member who has some group of other legislators who is likely to follow them. Here are four people I think might be interesting to target (based on nothing but having read news articles).

    1, 2. Anthony Weiner and Jerrold Nadler. These guys managed to become very visible as public option / progressive spokespeople and seem (???) to have actually had some influence on the direction of the legislation. (For better or worse, it was speculated that Weiner’s endorsement of the medicare buy-in was what caused Lieberman to pull his support for it.) This is what they’re saying now:

    Two high-profile progressives–Reps. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) and Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)–said the only way they could sign on to the Senate bill is if it was accompanied immediately, or even preceded by, a separate bill, making a number of major preemptive changes to what they regard as an inferior package.

    This isn’t “I’ll vote for the bill”. But it’s not an altogether unreasonable position either. It seems like it’s not out of the realm of possibility either to get these guys to adjust their demands to be more realistic, or (this part would be more difficult for a bunch of people on a blog) to adjust the reality of the situation to comply with their demands.

    3. Raul Grijalva. Grijalva is cochair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, so he has a following. His statements on the bill right now have been problematic. Right now he’s saying things like

    “It has to be the whole thing” done through reconciliation, Rep. Raúl Grijalva, D-Ariz., told Salon Wednesday morning… Grijalva said Congress should just find a way to ram healthcare through the budget reconciliation process, which only needs 51 votes in the Senate. The rules in the Senate might make it impossible to get most of the bill past that process; anything considered policy, rather than budget-trimming, would still need 60 votes

    This is nonsense. However if you’re looking at someone to target to pressure to change their minds, Grijalva’s probably at the top of the list: He’s likely to have people follow him if he makes a decision, he’s got a history of publicly drawing slightly unrealistic lines in the sand seemingly just to move the overton window (he claimed he’d vote against the House bill unless it contained a medicare-linked public option) and also a history of abandoning those lines if he has to (the House bill didn’t, and he voted for it anyway). He might be possible to persuade. He however also probably is also awash right now in the soup of reinforcement from left wing mailing lists promoting incorrect notions of reconciliation, so he might be difficult to persuade.

    Maybe most likely:

    4. Lynn Woolsey. Woolsey is the other cochair of the CPC besides Grijalva. Where Grijalva has been attempting dubious brinksmanship over the last few weeks, Woolsey has been taking a more conciliatory tone as things wind down. If you’re looking for someone to support or rally behind, this makes her maybe the best option: She has followers, and credibility as a progressive. She can maybe serve to neutralize Grijalva if Grijalva won’t be reasonable. And she seems to be close to being on the side of passing a bill anyway, so she would not need much pushing.

    Note, these are people I think seem significant on the progressive side. It also might be worth it to figure out who is worth pressuring and/or pressurable among the blue dogs.

  16. 16.

    Chad S

    January 20, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Any purple(ie any state Bush carried in 2004) state House dems who voted for the House bill should be on the list. Senate wise, I would say(and I include some candidates):
    Begich
    Whomever is the most credible dem candidate in Illinois
    Beau Biden(who can beat Castle)
    Feingold(the GOP will target him now)
    Hagan
    McCaskill
    Wyden
    Patty Murray
    Whomever is the Dem nominee in Colorado
    Webb

  17. 17.

    geg6

    January 20, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    @mcc:

    Yeah, because all those so-called legislators are doing such a damn good job.

    Fuck you. At least Grayson talks to these idiots the way they should be talked to. Gimme that any day over what we’re seeing from the rest of the Democratic caucus. Or the president, for that matter.

    Edited to add: And at least Grayson can get his face on cable. Unlike the rest of the asshole Dems who have shown nothing but cowardice and graft through the whole process.

  18. 18.

    gwangung

    January 20, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    @geg6: Grayson says what should be said and gets on cable TV, but I think what’s being gotten at is that he doesn’t have as much power/influence with other Congress critters as some other representatives.

  19. 19.

    Martin

    January 20, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    What’s the real question?

    I’m still confused whether the goal is to get the House to pass the Senate bill or to kill the effort in order to push for reconciliation. But it seems to me the primary goal is to cut the nuts off of Nelson, Lieberman, Stupak, Baucus, and a dozen other Blue Dogs, rather than get a bill passed.

    But if you are trying to get the House to pass the Senate bill, it’s not the Blue Dogs causing the problem but the Barney Franks that are unwilling to accept what the Senate came up with.

  20. 20.

    Political Pragmatist

    January 20, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    I called Congresswoman Dina Titus today and asked for her vote. She represents us in Henderson, NV, and parts of Las Vegas. To say she’s a wavering Dem is an understatement. Rabbits are braver. But she heard from me. Get it done.

  21. 21.

    John

    January 20, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Grijalva seems to be key here.

    Did people see this?

    This is hopeless. The liberals in the House seem to be either totally deluded or completely defeatist. This is pathetic.

  22. 22.

    Chad N Freude

    January 20, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Probably not gonna matter. See Josh Marshall, quoting a Senate staffer:

    The worst is that I can’t help but feel like the main emotion people in the caucus are feeling is relief at this turn of events. Now they have a ready excuse for not getting anything done. While I always thought we had the better ideas but the weaker messaging, it feels like somewhere along the line Members internalized a belief that we actually have weaker ideas. They’re afraid to actually implement them and face the judgement of the voters. That’s the scariest dynamic and what makes me think this will all come crashing down around us in November.

    EDIT: The entire, rather long, letter the quote is taken from is worth reading.

  23. 23.

    geg6

    January 20, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    @gwangung:

    Yeah, but why is that? Perhaps if he could show he had a national following that loudly applauds his tactics, he’d have some juice.

    Nah. It’s the Dems and they couldn’t care less about what the people want or think. That is what has been made obvious to even the most brain dead among us today.

  24. 24.

    Quiddity

    January 20, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    I think Obama is a key figure. While bottom-up approaches, like what Tim F is suggesting, might work, top-down pressure – using the power of the presidency – is probably more effective.

  25. 25.

    Mary

    January 20, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    I’m glad you’re thinking seriously about this.

  26. 26.

    gwangung

    January 20, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    @geg6: He’s a junior rep, with no seniority and no key assignments who apparently doesn’t work well with others. Not the most ideal person to build around (though if you’re wanting to yoke him with some other, more senior people, that’s good; that’d make a multi-front approach).

  27. 27.

    gwangung

    January 20, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    @Quiddity: Personally, I thought it was key to have both.

    But I’m just a loudmouth on the internet….

  28. 28.

    jenniebee

    January 20, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    @geg6:

    But I am seriously hard pressed to think of a Dem I’d give money to.

    May I introduce you to Bobby Scott?

  29. 29.

    liberty60

    January 20, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    @geg6:

    At least Grayson talks to these idiots the way they should be talked to.

    This.

    Grayson speaks in bold, clear tones of good and evil, moral clarity and resolve.
    In all the dithering about who has leverage, we forget often that there IS a power simply in bold courage and conviction, even when the forces are against you.
    Think of Reagan firing the air traffic controllers, Thatcher thundering that “the lady’s not for turning”*, both were risky gambles, a stand against powerful forces when all were advising compromise and both paid off.

    We are the forces of morality, of action, and we have demographics and history on our side. We are not the ones who should be quavering or vacillating. We have nothing to apologize for.
    We can compromise on tactics, but never on principle.

    * yeah, as a former conservative, those were the only examples I can recite from memory. But you get the gist.

  30. 30.

    Tom Hilton

    January 20, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Looks like Representative Grijalva could use a few calls. Like, a few thousand. Angry calls.

    Motherfucker.

  31. 31.

    Tsulagi

    January 20, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Who are the key figures and what are their numbers?

    I can see you’re fired up, Tim. You could also come at these guys from another flank. This page will give you the contact number of someone they’ll really listen to. They even have a commercial ready to roll whose message is affordable health insurance for all without pre-existing condition clauses is needed in America.

    While like most they’re not entirely happy with the Senate bill, they support and want it signed. Being pragmatists, their slogan is “Supporting Bipartisan Reforms that Congress can build on.” They also think it can be fixed and/or built upon later. If those Congressmen and Senators get a call from AHIP, America’s Health Insurance Plans, they’ll take it and listen.

  32. 32.

    Mary

    January 20, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    It looks like it’s the members of the House Progressive Caucus that are the problem. Jane Hamsher has Club for Growth-type pledges from a lot of them regarding the public option and has conducted a nasty blackmail type campaign against them for months. I hope that is not affecting them but you never know since she has moneybags Norquist behind her. I’m sure he’d gladly pay to cause those progressives to lose their seats!

  33. 33.

    Bryan

    January 20, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Nydia Velazquez of New York City. I spoke to one of her staffers who says that she opposes the senate bill, but it sounded like she might not be firm in that decision. Her number is (718) 222-5819.

  34. 34.

    Bryan

    January 20, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Nydia Velazquez of New York City. I spoke to one of her staffers who says that she opposes the senate bill, but it sounded like she might change her mind. Her number is (718) 222-5819.

  35. 35.

    jwb

    January 20, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    @CHoward: This would actually be a good idea if you could get turn out. It’s what should have been organized this past summer if our fucking activists hadn’t been so absorbed by the inside politics.

  36. 36.

    mcc

    January 20, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    @Mary:

    It looks like it’s the members of the House Progressive Caucus that are the problem. Jane Hamsher has Club for Growth-type pledges from a lot of them

    So if this actually is the problem, then it seems like one of the easier possible problems to fix. CPC members are accountable to people like us in ways that, say, Reid, Conrad or Obama are not. Start Club for Growth type counterpledges. Make noise at their offices. Make it clear that there will be consequences for killing the bill that will be at least as bad as the consequences for not killing the bill.

    Like, I live in the middle of a dense thicket of CPC members. And I happen to know there is an active, fired-up network of OFA splinter groups threaded through every local district. They’re not really bothering talking to their own Congresspeople because they plain assume they don’t need to, they’re so desperate for something to do that they’ve got people traveling to other states on a semi-regular basis to promote things like the health care plan. These networks could be turned on the local Congresspeople easily, I think, if it could be demonstrated the local Congresspeople were actually the problem.

  37. 37.

    jwb

    January 20, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    @Tom Hilton: Willing to give this a bit of play until we see what happens. I could easily see this as posturing at this point, basically just a way of insisting that they have to have concrete promises for reconciliation before they will accept it.

  38. 38.

    Mary

    January 20, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    @mcc: Not counter-pledges, please. Maybe a petition that the counterpledges are not applicable because FDL is in bed with Grover Norquist and the right wing, or something.

  39. 39.

    Mary

    January 20, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    I don’t know how FDL plans to use those pledges because the pledges don’t actually conform to what the House voted on so one might think they were already null and void. FDL and their allies still bring them up from time to time however.

  40. 40.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    January 20, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @Tom Levenson: I second Tom’s recommendation. Hodes is my Congressman and he is a good guy. He’s been with us all the way and never wavered. He is also a serious contender for Judd Gregg’s seat. It would be a great pick up.

  41. 41.

    Tom Hilton

    January 20, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @jwb: well, either way I think it’s worth calling him to put on some pressure.

  42. 42.

    KS in MA

    January 20, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    Let’s march on Washington! I’ll go.

  43. 43.

    Jungle Jil

    January 21, 2010 at 2:26 am

    Eric Massa. He’s a Dem in a +5R district voting against HCR.

  44. 44.

    UlyssesUnbound

    January 21, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Baron Hill has two Republican challengers in his district, one of whom is a teabagger before the teabaggers were teabaggers–Mike Sodrel. He’s already beaten Hill once, and is picking up steam again. Hill, being a blue dog, is usually not popular among blogs, but isn’t so bad for a blue dog. he voted for ACES, while pushing through some emission cuts that would help farmers–a stand I can understand, while still disagreeing with it. He voted for the abortion amendment on the health bill, but (from what i can remember) never stated that his vote for HCR depended on the abortion amendment.

    I think most importantly though, is his opponent is Mike Fucking Sodrel. I lived in southern Indiana when Sodrel reigned supreme. I would take the Dark Lord himself as my representative over Sodrel.

    Anyway, if you are looking for a bluedog/moderate who could use some increased support from the left in order to confirm his vote on HCR, I think he would be a pretty obvious candidate.

  45. 45.

    DP

    January 21, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    FWIW my congressman is Keith Ellison, one who has signed a pledge not to vote for a bill with no public option. I called his office today and asked what his position was now that the landscape has changed and was told he hasn’t decided and is “listening to his constituents.” So if you live in Minneapolis, call him, he is a reasonable guy, I think his mind can be changed.

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